VETOING THE BOARD.

Press, Volume XLVIII, Issue 14475, 2 October 1912, Page 11

VETOING THE BOARD.

Mr Wilford said the Minister suid he -lid not insinuate anything against tho Department or against the late Minister, but against the legishtion. yet he quoted instances nt money .being-ap-proved by the Hoard three days before nil election. It there \vi_ no suggestion ol |K>ittioal corruption in the utterances of the Premier or the Finance Minister in connection with the Advances Board, why i|u! the Board write tho letter they did to the Minister? Hq suggested that an enquiry should ho held by n Supremo Court jud<j.o. It Would not lie a lengthy proceeding a_ the Act was only passed in 1909. "" He -skerl ?f the .Minister of Finance would take the responsibility of vetoing tho Board. Tho Hon. J. Allen: 1 would if 1 thought it tight to do so, or if I hadn't tho money. Mr Wilford: If you had the money would you go so far as to veto the reccinmend.itinns of the Board? Tue Hon. J. Allen: I would use my discretion. The final poison to certify to : . loan i« tho Minister. MR fr. AY. I.IT-SELL'S CRITICISM. Mr G. AY. llussell said there had teen £2,104.000 approved by the Board of which i_1.G17.000 had been raised. At _lst .March there was vonsequentlv of ■£ 487,000. If tho Government exercised the borrowing powers conferred upon it by Statu to and *HiS-d a million ban, £513,000 would fie available this year. That amount would remain if the whole of the commitments of the Ward and Mackenzie wverninents were met. „Th« Hon. J. Allen: You are entirely wrong. .Mr Russell contended that his "JEWes wero absolutely correct. He Voted figures refuting*the charges that the boroughs had received all the loan ~-.._ ey ' , He twitted the Government '.■JwS-rw"", 118 P° rnia nent tho limit of «i_T?r f( \ r local b <K»'es» while the Ward and Mackenzie Governments hnd made a matter. He mentioned that more than half of the popuWtion ot the country resided in the

boroughs. He agreed that the opening up of the back-blocks was the very lifeblood of the country. The. object of the State guaranteed advances was to provide money for the whole of the people, not a portion. It was absurd to suggest that tho contrary was the case. He trembled to imagine what would happen when the Government began doing away with cheap money, and, later, tho land for settlement scheme and the old age pensions scheme. PRIME MINISTER AGREEABLE TO AN ENQUIRY.

The Hen. W. V. Massey said the debate had been a great waste of tho time, ot Parliament. Ho had no desire to keep the House over the Christmas holidays. He said Sir Joseph Ward knew that there was no breach ot" privilege in the article quoted. Sir Joseph had used it as a peg to hang the latter portion of his motion on. He opposed that part of the motion referring to the breach of privilege, but he approved of referring the whole of the State guaranteed matters to th»- Public Accounts Committee. He would say that the figures quoted by Mr Allen on Saturday morning were absolutely correct. He traced the history of the Loans to Local Bodies Act from its inception. Then, he said, it was only intended to assist those bodies who were in need of money lor new works, and at a low rate of interest. He instanced tho cases of Gi.sborne ami Dunedin going on the open market ami obtaining money at the same rate as the Government could loan it. The scheme was wrong in principle The Hon. R. McKenzie: Are you going to repeal it? Mr Ma*s'.-y: lam going to vseb it right. Our credit had been seriously affected by some of the loans granted recently, and the work of settlement was at a standstill. He hoped that before the session ended he would be able to make better provision for back-bluek loans than had been the, case in the past. He mentioned that one borough had obtained a- loan of £80,000. the greater part of which remained in tho bank on fixed deposit. He agreed that a Finance Minister should exercise his right of veto if he found that the security for a loan passed by the Board was not sufficient. Ho had never suggested that, the country should not borrow; what he did say wne that the country should not borrow at the rate of six to seven millions yearly. Their borrowings should be carefully watched and their expenditure judiciously'executed. All the Government had for loans to local*bodies until March 31st next was £171,240. He dealt with Mr Russell's statements and expressed the opinion that he was unreasonable, illogical, and, he was afraid, insincere. They were not going to do away with the cheap money scheme, or tho land for .settlement scheme. They were out for cheap money and protection of the country's interests. They intended to make tho land for settlement scheme more useful, moro beneficial for the people than it had ever been before. He suggested to, Sir Joseph Ward that he should drop t'iD first portion of his motion. Ho was quite willing to afford an enquiry into the workings of the Guaranteed Department. OTHER SPEAKERS. The Hon. It. McKcnzir. suggested that tho Minister of Finance wanted to do away with cheap money in New Zealand. He pointed out that boroughs and cities received no grants for road making, though large subsidies were paid to tho counties for this purpose. Ho was pleased that the Government had agreed to refer the "matter to tho i Public Accounts Committee. The Ward Government had been charged with I reckless plunging, and tho whole matter would be cleared up. Mr Isitt said the Government had staked its- position on tho statement that tho Advances Department had been used to corrupt the. electorates. Parsimony was a disease with tho Minister of Finance. The Hon. F. M. B. Fisher said that after twenty-one years of office, the Liberal Party had left a rotten financial in j the country.' He pointed out tliiit the first time any Opposition member had asked for «m enquiry it had been unreservedly granted. Dealing with loans, ho asked if the loan which was granted to the Bemuera Road Board three days before the elections could not have been held over for three or four days, until they were decided T He believed that for the past twenty-ono years public money had been used for political purposes. Mr Laurenson contended that the lato Government had been attacked hy innuendo, and the public now wanted that innuendo justified. ' Sir Joseph Ward, replying, said he was giad-to'see the Prime Minister was agreeable to referring tho matter to ,a Committee of Enquiry. In answer to a remark by the Hon. J. Allen that if he did not have tho money he would reserve the right to veto a loan provisionally approved by tho Board, Sir Joseph said that for such a course a clause would have to be inserted in tho Act. He hoped that out of consideration for the Board and the members of the lato Ministry, tho enquiry would be held. In reply to the-Minister of Finance's statement, he could say that ho had never sheltered himself behind any Departments. He knew the personnel of the Board, and he always accepted their decisions. Ho never attended any of their meetings. PUULIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE. Six Joseph Ward withdrew his motion on the Prime Minister undertaking to iefer the' whole ■ matter to the Public Accounts Committee for full investigation. . This course, was adopted, and tho House rose at'l.2o a.m.