THE FARM LABOURERS' DISPUTE.

Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 12968, 22 November 1907, Page 9

THE FARM LABOURERS' DISPUTE.

I ' m\C_UATION BOARD FROGEEDfHE SHEEP OWNER* CASE. Tho dispute between the Agricultural labourers' Union and tho farmers and .hecpowners of the Canterbury industrial district was resumed beforo tho . Conciliation Board yesterday. Mr J Thorn (president of tho Labourers Union) called the following witness:A TAI TAPU SHEPHERD. Isaao William Philpott stated ho worked in tho Tai Tnpu district as a ibepherd for seven years. Ho earned f}sp«r day, paid 4s per irc< ?k in rent, wa. nr'rred, and kept throe children, the other threo keeping themselves. He had to feed his own dogs, nnd estimated the cost of keeping four dogs «t jet) per annum. His hours wero: — Rise'at 4.30 a.m.. breakfast at 5 a.m., L to work at 5.30 a.m., and leave olf it o p.m. When not engaged shepherding, ho did stacking, fencing, mending fences, and grubbing gorso. Mustering was hard work, when mustoring for tailing. Ho worked 8 hours -Bt lambing. The wages proposed woro fair for tho work done. To3lr Acland: Ho was employed by Jlr Beaton Rhodes. A head shepherd did all the driving. Ho had no experience of working sheep in hilly country or in tho back country. So far as he knew, the Union did not ask that shepherds' hours should be regulated. A casual shepherd meant an extra band for tho timo being. Could not a boy of 12 years of app nil. sheep on their backs?—l daresay bo could. Witness had never mustered on Sundays. Although he had only had experience of a small part of Canterbury, his opinion was that an award oil the lines of the Union's demands could be mado that would bo workable (HorerCanterbiiry. Ho had never got extra pay for attending to stud sheep. They might havo to waive the question of a half-holiday on Saturdays during tho lambing and shearing seasons--mv nine weeks in tho year. Not having had any experience, ho did not know how the sheds would bo filled with sheep ready for tho shearers tho day after Boxing Day, if tho shepherds had a holiday on Boxing Day. Mr Jonos asked if tho Union reprelantatives would give n definition differentiating between a general farm hand and a shepherd. Mr Thorn said he was not prepared ' I to mako any more admissions or explanations at presont, but would do so ss the case -proceeded, and when he thought necessary. To Sir Jones: Witness was not in a position to draw a dividing line be- ' tween a shepherd and a general farm To Mr Evans: General farm hands nsu'sted tho shepherds in tho dipping asason and when drafting. To Mr Thorn: Casual shepherds did other work than lifting sheep on their backs. Mr Acland remarked that during lambing tho mast experienced nion wete put an, but at other times any fool on tho farm could do the work of a casual shepherd. THE CASE FOR THE- SHEEPOWNERS. Mr Acland called E. R. Turtoft, who stated that he Was -» mnnacar of St. Helen's Station, North Canterbury, tho area of which was about 200,000 acres, and the sheep carried 45,000. Ho had boon on sheep worJ. nll Ida. lifo, and of all the work he had Iforwttal and practical knowlcdgo. • Ho had Mantged properties in The accommodation for tho station hands at the homestead at Sb. Helen's was rory fair. About 12 permanent mon wero employed, and a cook was kopt. Four, mon slept in ono room. -. At _ sboar'-ng there were about 60 men can- *. ployed. For eleven -monrtihs of* tihe year the accommodation for 60 men -''waa ,u*ed by the 12 permanent men. , The dining-room waa a separate building somo distance from tflio sleeping quarters. It would not bo possible to ,' Greet permanent accommodation for , tho men, at some. of tho camps on the station. There was no limit in tho taflilhu of istores to tho men, but thoy wero not supplied with candles. Regarding, bedding, the custom was for tho employ w to . supply mattresses, tfho men finding their own blankets, soap, towels, and so forth. During a ffstlod of thirty years, accommodation and food,had improved.'" Somo years too ho mttsfored on places whoro it was all tant work, and now huts were in existence. Years ago the cook usually oartMd a billy, a pannikin, amd a frying Jin; now ho carried two or threo hilliw, plates, knives and forks, a spare dish Of'two, and his men carried a - can_i> ovon_, Potatoes and onions were pnmd«d, and tho neoo_sar_es for plum aatj Hoo puddings. On the statdot» in tfflio. Ashburton, Rflmgitatfl, ajid ■ Orari, Whwo onoo thdro were only ' tents provided thero wero now, gener- . ally, hfutß. The head shepherd at St. JwtaJ'a was paid £120 per annum and found. He was a kind of foreman, and t ■ m tna absence of witness he took «iarg& Of the station. His head esfpherd hod full control of tho details of the work. It was not pos- '■ _nbl» to fix a rate of wages for head shepherds that would apply to all sta- , tions in Canterbury. Under shepherds .***& theto was no sheep work did ■other general work. A shepherd was a man engaged by tho yoar, and ia , UMrterer engaged for tho sea- ; ' son or by tho day. At St. Helena tho shepherd (married) got V £86 per onnum and a freo house. He found his own stores and could pur- >. chase them at wholesale prico from the station store. Ho was. charged for 201b of mutton per month nt 2d per lb no matter how much ho used. He also | had a run for two cows, bnt was not to that number, and he probably made aomething out of tho sale of butter. Tho unmarried shepherd *aspaid£lßo per annum and found and * bonus of £5. Compared with seven or ten years ago, tho wages of permanent men were better. The packman on St. Helen's, who was a travclhngoook, had to look after four horses and see to tho men's tents. Aras paid £2 l>er week. A few* yearn ago tho rate was 20s and found, nnd tho general rato now was 30s and found. On St. Helen*, tho packman had to attend to ton men. Tho Uniom's proposed rate of £3 10s for packmen was ex-, orbitant. Mustorers were paid £2 per week and f«_ 8d for Sunday; previously the wage was 3ob. One man's cheque last year was £93, nnd his only expense was probably about £15 for clothes. Witness had dono considerable mustering in gangs, and tho cus- ■ torn -was for the gara©* to be ougaged to muster on two or three adjoining stations, and under this ajßtem the men lost no time. There was no dissatisfaction among sheep workers »t present, and his permanent men did not «sk that tho Union's demand be given effect to. The head shepherd was better off than «<o would bo if the Union's demands were in force. Mustorers wero engaged who came from districts outsido Can- , terbnry, At the first place at which witness did lambing his' cmplorcr told him that there was "no eight hour* touch about it;'' ho was ji to get off as soon as he could see, ■V and to please'himti-'lf whether or not ho slept in tho middle of tho day. It sometimes happened that the mustorers finished work at 10 n.m., but much ~ , depended ou tho weather. At shear. t .-> r" B'_ _' '-aek-.

ing it was necessary to keep the shed full of sheep. Ho did not think it would bo possible to fix hours for shepherds on plains or downs country. So long as tho shepherd did his work it was immaterial at what times it wa. dono. Lifting sheep was not hard work, and was not worth the wagva asked by tho Union. Men wero employed rabbiting in .St. Helens, at 25s per week, in addition to being paui for skins, and being found in cartridges. Last year, when potatoes were at £12 per ton. ho supplied the station cook with them at £5. He did not think that preference to unionists would work in connection with station labour. Ho engaged most of his men in town, but sometimes ho employed swajrgers. Tho nearest centre where ho could sco an employment book would bo nt Culverden, twenty-five miles away. Ho could nob work his place if preference had to bo given to unionists, as thero were men going about who wanted work, but did not want to join the Union. Casual men usually comprised a good sprinkling ot men who had failed at work in town. Ho guaranteed casual men 22s Cd a week and found, or if 4s per day worked out better, they were to get that. Continuing, witness said it would be absolutely impossible to divide up the work dono by hia second shepherd so as to pay him in accordance with the Union's demands. Last year tho total wages paid at St. Helen's for mustering wero £Go 9; if the Union rates had been in force, the total would have been £1103. Thero might bo a difference of £3 or £1 between tho wages paid tho shepherds and what would be paid under tho Union's demands. Wages paid for casual labour last year amounted to £100; under the Union's proposals this labour would have cost £500. He had not -mado out a comparison regarding all the wages paid, but the estimate lie had mado showed that labour last year cost £186.5 would, at tho Union's proposed rates, have cost £2011. Ho paid poisoners 4s per day, but gorso grubbers received is per day. To Mr Thorn: Witness did not know if ho was an exceptional employer, in his experience tbo accommodation throughout Canterbury was as good as that nt Ht. Helen's. Ho estimated that tho food supplied to tho men was worth 10s to 10s od por man per week, and this did not mako allowance for wear and tear of utensils and appliances. Witness did not hold with unionism, and ii wages were increased ■as tho result of action by the Union, ho would not tako tho additional amount. A ploughman who was capablo of driving a four-horse team was worth moro than a casual baud. Ho did not think that tho tendency ol contract was towards sweating. Ill© wages of shepherds seven years ago woro £G5 to £70; at present ho pai<? £b0; niusterors seven years ago wero paid £2 2s and 355; at present he paid £2 and 6s 8d for .Sunday. From memory he could not say what price ho got for sheep seven years ago, but last year tho average wait 4s. He did not remember what prico ho got for hi» -wool soven years ago; last year tho average prico was about 0d per lb. To Mr Kennedy: He did not think that any of His permanent men slept in top bunks. Ho did not know of any employer who waa paying his mustoror at £3 per week. If a sheep dog was dono after threo yoars' work on rough country, it must bo duo to accident; ho reckoned that a dog was don© alter soven yearn on the lulls. Ho would not liko to see his own son in a rabbit poisoners' camp, but ho did not accept tho samo responsibility in regard to boys who cuino from town and wanted work. To Mr Acland: A competoiu. shepherd usually bred his own dogs, and during tho period witness hail dono shoop work ho thought ho was within tho mark in stating that he had not spent i.V.O on dogs; ho had b;.. . moro tiiujj ho had bougut. Tho dogs no sold woro reared on nis employers station, and wt.ro broken in on ■tJi-eir stock. An ordinary competent shepherd could mako money out of his ougs. It was only at shearing timo that men slept in bunks, one above another. Ho didn t think there was auy harm iv that. _tou sharo the opinion of tho directors of tho Union Company, when tihey brought out thoir now steamer, tho Maori, her bunks are ono abovo tho other F—That is so. Witness further stated that tho conditions under which packmen work differed on different stations. In tho Mackenzie country most of tlio packing was-dono by drays; at Ulentanner station, on the way to Mount Cook, tho samo applied; and at Mount Torlesso, where witness was jiinmigor for about threo years, all tho packing was done by drays. The packman ait tit. Helen's carried a tether rope and two or three hobbles, so that ono of tihe horses oould be tethered at camps at which tlie horses would not stay. If tho packman was a good ono, the musterors assisted him in packing the horses. It would not work to allow a man 6s for cooking for himself whoa he was sent to a camp. To Mr Itusbridge: The contract 6ysrtera did not. lower the rate of pay; but if thero was more competition than thero was at St. Helen's, the work Would bo done at lower rates. In such circumstances it would sometimes mean that tho men would get less, but an employer did not always get tho best of a contract. To Mr Shoat: When the Union's demands wero first made, ho asked his permanent men about them, and they replied that they would sooner remain as they were. To Mr Broadhoad: In his experience competent men wero always ablo to command tho best wages, and no matter what the effoot of tho demands of tho Union might be. such men would got their wages all the same.

To Mr Whiting: He did not think that shepherds worked moro than eight hours a day, and somo days they did not work six. He could not say if tho wages paid on St. Helen's to shepherds were paid om other similarly situated stations. The head shepherd at Mount Torlesso got £80. had the right to keep two cows, and kept a horse amd trap, ho found himself in Iward, but was supplied with mutton and firewood. Ha believed in allowing men extra when they had to do their own cooking when there was no cook at the homstead, but not when a man was sent to a camp. Can the Board gather from your ovi- J donee, seeing that your head shepherd is paid £120 per annum, that it would bo reason nble to fix 3-3s per week as a minimum for head shepherds?—lt would depend on tho kind of country and tho amount of responsibility placed on the man. The man 1 employ has been there some ten years, nnd is a first-class man. Do you think it would be fair to make a recommendation bringing all employers up to tho standard you havo?—l am only speaking for the part of tho country I am in. I think tho employer should lie at liberty to use his own discretion. To Mr Acland: From memory witness could not say if thero were half n dozen stations in tho South Island that shore 45,000 sheep, as was done at St. Helen's. Mr Thorn: Yon have been giving evidence in regard to an exceptional case? —How is that? Can yon givo mo the name of any other station where 45,000 sheep are shorn in one year in Canterbury?—l don't know the numbers 6liorn at the difforent stations. AN OLD PENINSULA SHEEPOWNER. Thomas Orr Hay stated that until recently he was a farmer and sheepowner \i I'igo.n Hay, and _ had been thero for sixty-four years —eight years before The pilgrims arrived. His experience covered tho period during which sheep liad been in Canterbury. Jle had employed threo shepherds and paid tho head ono £110; in addition he

had two cows, a plot of ground on which to grow vegetables, arouse and a hone, but tbo>ad shepherd found hi. own 'doss- Witness allowed him one shilling's worth of mutton a day, an d charged 3_d per lb for all in excess. With the surplus milk tho head shepherd reared calrtv., for which witnoas him 25s when 'they were two months old. From four to eight were reared per annum. Men who stayed with him made him their banker, dnd ho paid them 5 per cent, interest on their money. Ihe other shepherds got £10 per annum less than the head shepherd, but were allowed the same perquisites. Yoi.r mon <aye money?— Yes, they aro *-ll swvincr-money. The lost man I h.nd, who was with mc only twelve months, left £20 with mc, aiid ho is a married man with two of a family. My last head shepherd left mo _ little over three years c.go, and he saved between £000 and £600. Thero was an arrangement between ns that -when h« saw a place on which he thought he could mike a living 1 was to put him into it. He se.w _-uch a place, and I backed him. That head shepherd was getting £90 per annum. Tho* is £20 less than your present one?— Yes; woges havo been twice raised in tho piet ten years. Day labourers to whom I used to pay Gs now got ite. I employed three shepherds and two fencers, and they nil saved money. With regard to holidays, wlmt havo you done about that?—l allow my men a fortniglirt in the year, and thoy take that as arranged and os it suits; they also get Good Friday, Easter Monday, Christmas Day, Boxing Day_ and Now Day. Any tamo they have business in town they got a couple of days by mutual arrangement. Witness stated it- would be impossible to observe a weekly lialf-holidiy on .Saturdnvs. If he wanted to take sheep to Addington, ho hod to leavo on Monday so as to truck them at Littlo Itiver on Tuesday. They could not bo got in in half a. day on" Saturday, and would have to bo got iv on Friday. In tho meantime tlie sheep would lose condition. With regard to shoop work, it waa not possible "to have any limitation as to houi... In hot weather you must stort early and work late, doing nothing in tho middle of tho day. i.epeatedly his shepherds had chrvf.n to 5.4-rt ait 3 a.m., as they recognised they could do moro in ono hour in tlio early morning than in throo in tho mid die of the day. Unless under special conditions, his men worked from 8 to 5, with em hour off for dinner. It would be impossible to keep i check on the mon if ho had to pay overtime. It was not. usual to look for a job for a man who returned from doing something on another part of the form an hour before 5 p.m. There wore good houses for his men— kitchon, tnvo bedrooms, nnd back premises for washing up; tho buildings would havo to bo renewed shortly. Men wero very much better treated now than thoy used to bo. Shepherds, if they 'liked, could, in ton to fifteen years, be in a position to start for themselves. Two fencers who had worked for him had within tho last threo years £Wio on to places of thoir own. Ono shepherd, who had not a shiHine; (ho saved money, but had given it to his parents), sxw a mieo placo of 83 ncres, and witness put him into it. This man had just sold out, arid would go out with £1000. Witness had studied tho Union's demands pretty carefully, and did not tli ink they were workable. He did not think it possible to make an award to apply to farming, owing to tho difficulties connected with stock and with tho weather. Ho himself had started driving shoop nt 1 a.m., and on other occasions had been stuck up for hours, as the sheep would not move. It was not possiblo to make an award that would 1 apply to farming conditions throughout Canterbury. Preference to Unionists would not work satisfactorily. For himself, ho could always get extra labour without trouble from Pigeon Hay. Ho had heard of no dissatisfaction amongst tho farm labourers in hi. district. It was not possible for similar conditions to apply to two farms. Preference to Unionists would destroy tlie friendly relations existing between employer and employee, and if it was granted, ho did not think the men would got the same privileges as they enjoyed at present. In return for those privileges witness could do as he liked with his men, who did as ho wanted thorn. Aro tho mon in a better position at pTesent.than if thoy Jiad been working under an think very much better. In fact, these men havo been working in other places and saved no money until they camo to mc. At present, two of my men aro looking for places, and as soon as they find suitablo farms I am ready to finance them. Within the last ten years I havo financed several men into places. Ar© they independent men now?— Not yet, but they are on tho way— they are making money. Witness stated that the abolition of contract work in connection with cocksfooting would ruin that industry, as day men, when wet weather came, cleared out and left'the farmer to finish off as best he could. Under tho contract system, tho contractors saw tlie work through. To Mr Jones: A nine-hour day in the dairying industry would never work, as tho best could not bo got out of cows unless milked regulnrlv. Mr Thorn: I think if every employer was liko you there would have been no Union. Witness: It gives mo pleasure to sco my men work, and I liko to sco them prospering. Witness further stated that ho had been ablo to pay the wages, mentioned without financially embarrassing himself. He did not think a practicable award could be mado providing that shepherds should receive £90 per annum, as no two men wero alike. Yon would not say that bad shopherds are tho general thing?—No; but thero nro moro bad ones than firstclass ones. (Laughter.) If a man is not competent, I don't keep him. The Shearers' Union has preference to Unionists. Have_ you found that fact disturb the relations lie tween vourseif amd your shearers?—l don't think thero is one in tlio Union. Mr Acland questioned whether the shearers had preference to Unionists, and produced tho award. Mr Thorn. after consulting the award, said he was tinder a misapprehension on the point. To Mr Sheat- Witness did not thinkthat the farm worker, tho farmer or the country, would be benefited by farm labourers being under an award. To Mr Whiting: Ho could not say if tho wages ho paid were paid generally on t-ho Peninsula:_ he did not know what wages his neighbour paid. Mr Acland intimated that thi3 closed his oaso so far ns this city was concerned. Mr Thorn, replying to tho Chairman, said ] 10 <Ji c l n ot intend calling rebutting evidence. 'Hie Cli airman: Then to-morrow morning vo resume tho Labourers' union case. The Board then adjourned till 10 a.m. to-day.