NATIONAL ENDOWMENTS BILL.

Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 12946, 28 October 1907, Page 8

NATIONAL ENDOWMENTS BILL.

THE AMENDED PROPOSALS

EXPLANATIONS AND VIEWS

(SPECIAL TO "THE TIMS.")

WELLINGTON, October 27.

The Government's Amendment of its list of proposed national endowments is just now, of course, the principal point of political interest. The freeholders arc extremely dubious as to whether they have gained any advantage, and the North Island members especially arc not inclined to bo satisfied, as whilst no deductions have been rnndo from the areas proposed to bo sot opart in. that lelnnd they are liable to be increased by the land which may be held os grasing runs end renewable leases. Some of tho leaseholders regard the new proposals very favourably, but others nro inclined to doubt whether their cause has gained any advantage. DISCUSSION IN THE HOUSE. After tho telegraph offioo closed yesterday morning Jlr McNab gave some explanation of tho new proposals. Ho stated that of the original 9,000,000 acres, 7,500,000 acres had been in tlie South, and 1,500,000 in the North. Two million ecres wero to be taken from tho area in the South nnd to make up for that it wns proposed that sniflll grazing runs granted under the 1802 Act and re-new*Wo leases should, bo included. Gracing runs covered an area of 600,000 eoros, and tenants could suffer no hardship, einco the tenure would not b© altered. The option of the freehold would not bo interfered with in connection with tho renewable leases. A settler could exerciso the option. If he. choso a renewable lease the land would go under the endowment. The change wonld make a fairer proportion betweon tho two islands.

Mr Fisher wanted to know whether the two million acres now to be squeezed out of tho endowmente would como wnder tho optional tenure-. Mr MeXab en id it was possible, but very improbable, becauso tho orea would l>ft grazing loud. Mr' Fisher said it seemed as if the Government intended to whittle down tho proposed endowment to seven railliou acres. What, he asked, wee the object of putting out grazing lands. Simply to put in'oilier grazing lands? It was simply a concession made with tho object of lessening opposition to the Endowment. Bill. ■Mr Massey: To nuike ifc less objectionable to certain members.

Mr Fisher: It is a mere ehuffle of the cards—taking out some gracing lands and putting in others. Mr W. Frasor said the two million acres to bo deducted were pretty well all in the South Island. Mr MoXab: in the South" Island. Mr W. Frasor: Will there be *n opportunity of diseueeing every.item in tho schedule?

Mr McNab: Every line of it, word by word. x

Mr W. Fraser said tho position appeared to be still very unsatisfactory, under the now proposals the endowments might eventually, as other lands came into them, mount up to ten or even fifteen million acres. Mr Hose eaid n number of small grazing runholders had tho right of converting their twenity-onc-year Jeasee to tho loasc-in-perpetuity tenure. Would that right be affected by inclusion in the endowment areas? Mr McNab 1 They will have no right to convert. There i« the power now, but tho lion-, gentlemen voted with mc to put a clause in the Land Bill taking that power eway. Mr Ro«e i But whit is tho ppaition in regard to those who hold prior righteP Mr McXab: There ie just the power of the .-Minister-to-gire it. There it no rJgjt., • , • .. .• Mr James Allen said the 1892 rune f.nd future'grazing rune also would now como into the endowments.

Mr MoXeb: Yes, that is co. Air Allen: What about the 1885 runs as they run out and come to be re-letP What will happenP " ' ' ■"■••'. Mr McXab: They will be re-Jet under the old Act for twenty-one years. They won't bo in the endowments.

After some further protests by the Opposition the vital clauses of J th© Bill were postponed. • A number of machinery clauses were put through end the Bouse rose at 3 a.m. MR M ASSETS VJCWfI. On being aeked for hie tiewe en the new proposals, ..the Leader of the Opposition stated i the position aa follows:—• •'■ ■■'-•■ v i "According to information supplied td Parliament last year, there stil' remains in the hands of the Crown between 10 and 17 million acres of land, including land leased for pastoral purposes, end consisting principally of second and third class quality. Part of this land, according to the Land Bill juet passed, would be available for settlement under, the cash, renewable leaee/ or the occupation with right of purchase .system, the 999 years' leasc-in-perpotmty system being ebolished.. The Endowment Bill as introduced provided for the setting aside of nine million ecres of these lands -as endowment*, nominally for the purposes of education and old rgo pensions. The -absurdity of the propose 1 is proved by the fact • that the present revenue domed from these 9.000,000 acres is only */mo £49,000. and that is not likc-'.y to be greatly increased in future, whilst the present cost of education ami old ago pensions is between £I,IOQ-Qo»> /vnd ±'1,200,000." Mr Ma«,oy referred to the distpBroval expressed by a ' number of southern members during the second reading debate at tho hrge proportion of endowments (7,785,000 acres) that it M-ns propo&ed to set apcrt in the. South Island. As a comeouence of theeo complaints the Premier now proposed to strike out two million acres from tho .South Island proportion. 'At the''same time, however," continued 'Mr fMuesey. 'it is proposed to include in tho endowments tho grazing rune and all tho lend that may in. future »*» taken no under the new renewable -lease syst<*m.' It is somewhat difficult to* eny just yet what the effect will be, becaneo in ell probability large areas of land will be purchased by the Crown from the natives. This land will bo thrown open under the optional system, and if any part of it is taken up under thf renewable lease, such land will become part of the endowments. ;! , * "In the case of the, email grazing runs it is also impossible to say what the ultimate effect of the new prooosal will ibe» f° r tno reason that it applies not only to land now set apart as small gracing runs, but also to any land which may be classified under that heading in tho future. *or instance there are a number of very laSTarcM held under Pnrt VI. of tho Land Act for pastoral purposes. As theso leases fall >n they may be subdivided into small grazing runs, and then become part of the endowments. Another important point is contained in the fart that if. when pastoral leases fall in, there is any portion of such land fit for closer settlement, that txjrtion may, under the present law, be disposed of under the optional system, but in the case of land set apart as endowments, it will be available only under the renews bio lease. Under such ciicumstances settlement will suffer, and perhaps seriously. ,, "Is not tlio area of endowments in the North Island likely to be increased b»- the latest proposal P" " "That is so, of course, lint how much it is impossible to toy. because, as J

have said, it depend* to a large' upon the amount of land that taken up under th© or eet apart a* smell grating raM^V^HI Speak.ng of tho (TdlW ment generally, Mr Ma MC y 'Our exiwienoe of scoond^iiae• > try land as endowments lias beentCltiil : reverse of eatisfactorj*, and 1 do tSclll ! think that endowment i* tho rtd : £lli ject of what is proposed. A large m&H : portion of tho proposed endowmentif H? of such poor quality that litUe>V£%lii crease in values can Iμ? expected frtl*T'fflP it, while the better portion gmre a largo expenditure for Hk&fi M ing, etc., which will still inrtW?? S diminish the oxjiected income, ftitfi W real object is, I believe, to havVtwi- fflt lands nationalised and ocoupied a leasehold tenure only, and so pftt»e&? ij| that section of tno House whose mette' , ? X Is, 'No freeholdf rs need apply.'" J?- f WsJ "Do you think thnt, generally epoiik.'j! Ip ing, the new proposals are loss ■&$ Ilionablo than tJio former prononlfr tf" « "No, I hardly think so. UnCettttiV a? first proposal tliero iraa a %? the aren, which •β-bs fixed at a defietu E> limit, bnt under tho system now W. i»sed thero will bo no finality," fkt AN AQIEM»EENT. ';5|J" 1% Wilford has given notice h'*. amendment emiiowcring the (forMpjj X? ; uiont to sell or otherwise ;,;',; endowment* ot any time, and to imuif ;■'". the proceeds in the purchase of vim -J ?Jl lands within ten miles of a town ''"' Jwrougb. having not lees than SOOQj^V , {, such lands to (be set •fiitt'f %"' as endemmente under the Act, 0 ~\l,' \ $ '