YESTERDAY'S PROCEEDINGS IN THE HOUSE.

Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 12906, 11 September 1907, Page 8

YESTERDAY'S PROCEEDINGS IN THE HOUSE.

(PRES« ASSOCIATION TELEOBAM.) WELLINGTON", September 10. The House of Representatives this afternoon, after disposing of formal business, went into committee for further consideration of the Tariff Bill.

The amendment to place boilers, or parts therefor, for steam engines for mining, including gold dredging or gold saving purposes and processes, or for dairying purposes, on the 5 per cent, list, was further debated.

Mr Millar reiterated his previous remarks that 20 per cent, was plated on these boilers in order to grant assistance to local boilerinakers. lie contended that these boilers could Im> made locally, and thnt whilst the, local boiiermakers were not fully engaged on large boilers, they could fill in time in iiiuiung small iwiioio tor dairying purposes. Hβ hoped the committee would not carry tho-amendment. ■ Mr Herrics said ho believed the boiier industry was prospering in the colony, but if it was in such a languishing position that it needed 20 per cent, protection, the, question wns, whether it was worth retaining the industry. The Premier said the total duty paid on boilers for dairying purposes last year was £o2 l»s, yei- it was being claimed that the dairying industry was being penalised, and that nothing was oeing done for it. In regard to what was being done for the benefit of the dairy industry, he need only say that the tax on imported butter was nearly £14 per ton. The total duty paid on boilers imported for the mining industry last year was £13 15s, and yet it was claimed that the increased duty would seriously handicap the, mining industry. He added that £8000 per annum wes being paid for the inspection of dairies.

Mr Millar said that the tax on tho dairy industry under the new schedule, based on the previous year's imports, would only bo about £200. Mr Massey said that if there was a duty of 50 per rent, on butter it would not affect the price of butter to the extent of a farthing per lb. Ho contended that the principle of the tax proposed to be placed on dairying and mining industry was wrong, as they were tho two principal industries of the colony. Ho added that tho effect of tho Government inspection of dairies would bo to drive many men out of the industry.

The Premier contended that tho duty on butter and aJso on wheat was originally imposed for tho purpose of protecting those industries. He believed that a loading representative of the dairy industry had expressed himself as satisfied with the duty placed on boilers. He added that the Government inspection of dairies was first proposed by a Mr Massey in the north. He did not say it was the leader of the Opposition. •Mr Hardy: There is only on© Mr Massey.

The Premier: Then it must have been him.

Air Hornsby said he regretted Mr Massey's remarks on the expenditure for dairy inspection. He (Mr Hornsby) represented a dairying district, and could say that the Wairarapa dairymen, at any rate, welcomed the Minister's proposal*, which would greatly benefit the industry. Mr Izard said that dairymen themselves approved of Hie tariff, and it was useless to talk against the proposal. He could only endorse Mr Hornsby's remarks, that if the inspection of dairies was going to drive farmers out of the industry, then "let 'em g0. ,, Mr elevens said he still held the ppinion that implements for dairying purposes should be on the free "list, but after the concessions that had been granted, amounting in some cases to 80 per cent, on the original proposals, he did not think the farmers in .his electorate -would take exception to a reasonable tax for the purposes of protecting local industries. He urged that 20 per cent, more should be added to the price paid by tho Crown to owners of diseased cattle destroyed by order of tho.Crown, in the interests of the colony. Mr Guinness said what he objected to on behalf of the mining and dairying , industries was that an increased duty of 15 per cent, had been imposed. Surely it could not be argued that this increase was for tho purpose of protecting the boiler making industry, wbon it was clearly shown by the Premier that tho number of boilers imported were so few that the total duty was only £06. As the amount was so small, it could not be required for revenue, purposes. Whilst the Government had a surplus of three quarters of a million, it would only be a drop in the bucket.

Mr Duncan said there wan a feeling among farmers and dairymen that this was a first attempt to exploit them, and the result would be that a reaction would take place.

The Premier said that Mr Duncan .must have shut his eyee to what the Government had done for dairymen and farmers. He asked how it was that a number of members representing dairy districts had not received any communication from their constituents opposing tho. Government's tariff proposals. Ho added that the Government had to consider the workers' families who had not the advantage of being on the land, end to provide for these it was necessary to grant asistauce to local industries by giving protection against imported articles. .

. Mr Okey eaid he could prodnoe scores of telegrams trom dairy factorice in his electorate, asking him to vote against the duty. Hβ asserted that there was .no need for dairy inspection whilst they were producing such high class Imtter as the colony was exporting. Ho added that the farmers' had not asked for the duty on butter, as they could do without it; in fact, they could make butter at 4Jd per pound, and he contended that not a single pound of butter had ever been imported. The .Premier pointed out that butter had been imported to the colony from Ireland and Australia.

The discussion was interrupted by the dinner adjournment.

On tho House resuming at 7.30 p.m., Mr Horripe contended that the extra duty on machinery, stationery and books would equal the reductions made, so that the remissions which the Government hud made co much of would be nil. He urged that boiler* should be admitted at 5 per cent. Mr Hopg considered ft the duty of the Legislature to do what it could to foster young industries, and. he contended that the iron industry was one that should be supported. Ho considered that an increase from 5 to 20 per cent, was a huge jump. The people of the country districts had not the same oppo: trinity of knowing what Parliament wae doing as the people in the towns had. and he questioned if tho miners and dairymen knew of what was being done. If the manufacturers in the colony could manufacture boilers under a small duty, what was the tie* of increasing the duty by 15 per oent. Would it increase the worker* , wages, or would it simply incream th« «wt of machinery to dairymen and miner*. He felt that the duty proposed was somewhat excessive. Mr Millar said that seventeen boilers were imported last year for dairy purposes, representing a cost of £'1014. and it was far better that these should be made in the colony, tie wijhwl to make it plain that dairying machinery was ou tho free list, and steam en-

P"« °" h '°Pw com. list. Ho added that these boilers were im portod irom America, which, did not take a single pound of tho colony's f^. 11 R . b ?"*' , tl«t work should be provided for our own work men, rather than for foreigners Mr Poole said that if the Housewaa not prepared to grant assistance to the engineering industry, in order tint it could find employment for more young men, then we were drifting to a point when w© should haro a j;reat excess of unskilled workers. For that reason be hoped that the Committee would nf>t carry the amendment. Mr Masscy said that under the old list all dairying machinery wae free, whereas under the now tariff only coolere and separators would come in undor the fre© list. He added that, owing to tho preferential tariff, the actual duty on American boilers would lx> 25 per cent., an increase on the old tariff of 20 per cent. Ho contended that was absolutely no protection to tho dairy industry, as our butter had to compote in +he opon market with butter manufactured in countries nearer to England, and countries which had cheaper labour than New Zenland.

After further discussion the amendment was negatived by 36 votes to 25. Mr James Alien moved t-o reduce tho duty on electrical machinery and appliances from 10 to o per cent. Hβ urged that electrical machinery should bo placed on the same Ixisia as other machinery- The Minister might say that there was only one firm in the colony which made electric motors, but ho contended that large electric motors could only be profitably made in <«- tablishments where there were large staffs.

The Minister said that electrical machinery was on tho same list as it had born on for years, and if, as had boon suggested by Mr Allen, it was displacing other machinery, that was a good reason why tho duty should be retained.

Mr Fisher urgod that deotricol meters should bo admitted free, Aβ they could not bo made in the colony. He was informed that 000 or 700 would bo required .annually, amd they would have to bo imported at a cost of £4 10a cadi.

Mr Millar said he would enquire into the case of elootric meters, and at a lator stage it might be expedient to ptaco them on the freo list, but he did not care to accept -any amendment at this etage.

The amendment was negatived by 42 VO<tC3 to 13.

31 r Fisher moved that electrical machinwy for local bodice be admitted at 5 por cent.

Mr Barber pointed out that the electric tram systems had been installed by local bodies in the large cities, and if this concession was granted the smaller local bodies might metal electrical aysteme.

The amendment wae negatived by 83 votes to 28.

Mr 'Barber asked the Miniisrtwr to placo a specific duty on ,bicycles, instead of 20 per oent. • Mr Millar said he had fully discussed the matter of a epecifio duty with represenbativos of the cycle trade iv the colony, and had informed them that ho could not agree to it.. .. -Both the employees and manufac/turere had expressed themselves ■«c satisfied with what he proposed. - Mr Poole (said that steps should be taken to deal with spurious parts for machines, whioh were * menace to the public. •Mr Aitken urged, that more protection should he granted, local manufacturers. .

Mr Millar eaid that while £71,000 worth of complete bicycles were imported last yw, £130.000 worth of parts were imported, of which £40,000 paid duty. i Mr Ell *aid that a machine sold in England for £2 Hβ 6d, for which about 6e*9d -or 6s -was paid to the worker, and cycle nra-nufacturere here asked for a duty equal to £2 per machine in order to protect the industry here. To make. a epecifio duty, ac was desired, he contended, would bo assisting tool industry and protecting the public, who ran-great risks in riding these inferior machines. •.:--■-•.

Mr Graham said if th* Minister 'was not prepared to consider the suggestion to place a specific duty on bicycle*, then, wittingly or unwittingly; he wee doing an injustice to the local manufacturer* andthe public. Mr Millar said the; result of the suggested £2 duty would' be to place 28s 9d into the pockets of the local builders of the same class of machine, «s the cost of labour in England for constructing the machine, according to members, was &» 9d, and the coat in tho oolony 17e 3d. Mr EU pointed out that Mr Millar had Allowed .nothing for rent of premisee in the colony. la Englaod the labour was carried on in, tn* men's own homes.

Mr Okey moved that billhooks be etruofc out of the 20 per cent. Het., . ■This wan negatived by 37 votes to 24. Sir William Steward moved that caeh registering machines be struck out of the 20 per cent, liet, with a Tier to placing them on the 10 per cent. n*t. Mr Millar said tbat cash registers were not a necessity, but Were used for the purpose of testing employees' honesty, and could ewiiy fttand tb* in* creased duty. .... _, Mr T. Mackenri* t*id rf th* people working theee maohinea deaired to «eU more in the colony, they ahoold drop their enormous profit*. • , The amendment w*« negatived by 42 votes to 22. Mr Arnold moved an amendment to exempt cast iron pipes, Bft and upwards in diameter, for sewage purposes, from the 20 per cent list. This was negatived by 44 votes to 20. At machinery not otherwise enumerated, 20 per cent. . Mr A. L. D. Fraser said that this included all machinery used in making gas. He moved that it be reduced to 10 per cent. Mr Millar said he would put gas meters on the free list. The amendment was negatived on the voices. Progress was then, reported en the Bill end the House rose at 1 a.m.