PAINFUL SCENE IN THE HOUSE.

Press, Volume LVII, Issue 10786, 13 October 1900, Page 9

PAINFUL SCENE IN THE HOUSE.

REFERENCES TO PRIVATE AFFAIRS.

A HEATED DEBATE,

A MEMBER SUSPENDED

(SFECIAL 10 "THE PRSSS.")

WELLINGTON, October 12

The most painful scene of the session took place this afternoon during the discussion on the Public School Teachers' Salaries Bill, •when a hot discussion of a very pronounced personal character enrie<l in Mr Pirnni, the member for Palmerston North, being suspended for the remainder of the day's Kitting.

In the course of his remarks Mr Pirani referml* tn the fact that a scale of salaries have been prepared vome months ago for the Department and asked why that scale nhoulcl not be placed before members.

Mr Seddon expressed surprise that a member should bo aware of departmental information that had not be-en made public. It showed then- must be leakoge somewhere.

'Mr It. MrKenzio said tho Premier need not be surprised, and mnde a remark to the effect that Mr Pirani had received key hole information from the Departments.

l\fr Pirani, in the course of a warm speech, repudiated what lie termed "the dirty insinuations" of Mr McKenzie.

Thu Chairman of Committees (Mr Gum BP.Kji) called upon Mr Pirani to withdraw Ibe remark.

■Mr Pirani obeyed, and -substituted the words "mean and underhanded." He went on to state that he had never liad to get his resignation back through the keyhole or send bis wife for it. He then referred to the position of the member for Motueka as a representative of the people, and said he could go down into the street and pick a member out of the gutter.

Mr Seddon —"I move that those words be taken down."

The Chairman said the words must be withdrawn.

Mr Pirani -said he would withdraw if it Wiia meant that he had inferred that he had picked Mr McKenzie out of the gutter. Tho Chairman told Mr Pirani he must not trifle with the rulings of the Chair, but withdraw the words unreservedly. ■Mr Pirani —"I withdraw." Tho Premier said he should be called upon to express regret. The Chairman—"He has withdrawn unreeervedlv. That is sufficient." .

Mr McKenzie shortly afterwards made a Vigorous reply, in the course of which he said he was not ashamed of anything he had done either in the House or out of it. Rle went on to make a statement, in which he referred to a rumour that Mr Pirani's wife had broken her umbrella over that gentleman's back in the Square of Palmerston North. Mr McKenzie also stated that when Mr Pirani attacked him ho (Mr McKenzie) would wipe him on the iloor on every occasion. Mr McKenzie also repeated" the statement alwnit Mr Pirani getting information through the keyhole.

Mr Pirani (speaking later on) —Said a similar statement to that mad 3by Mr McKenzie had been made by the Premier to Mr Fisher for his (Mr Pi rani's) detriment. Mr Fisher had told him about it, and now the Premier was making use of Mr McKeiizie. It was just as false as other statements that came from the s«tme source. Mr McKenzie—"What statement?" Mr Pirani—"A statement the member would not have the pluck to use to my face outsit!a the House.'"

A member asked whether the word "false" was parliamentary. Mr Pirani—"l would sooner leave tho House in an honourable way than use any other word." 'Mr Pirani went on to state that Mr McKenzie was repeating a slander cdrcufoted by the premier. Tho Chairman called upon Mr Pirani to Withdraw these words.

Mr Pirani—'"No, Sir, I decline to withdraw them." The Chairman—-"I must report the matter to the Speaker." Several members here asked what the words referred to were. Mr Pirani—"My statement was that the member for Motueka repeated a slander circulated by the Premier." The Chairman—"l ask th-3 member again, 'Do you decline to withdraw the words V I have ruled them to be unparlamentary, end out of order."

Mr iPirani again refused, and the Speaker was sent for, and after the position wae explained to him th* Speaker called upon Mr Pirani to make a statement.

Mr Pirani—"Do I understand yon to rule that the words are unparliamentary?" The Speaker—"Cleurly so." Mr Pirani then said—"l regret the Speaker was not in the House to hear the ■pecch of the member for Motueka. T do nut intennd to repeat that speech. No one who had any respect for himself couJd repeat it. He referred to a statement as to •wnat had taicen place between my wife and myself in the .Square at Palmerston North. The Premier made the" statement to Mr Fisher, and Mr Fisher repeated it h> mc. "As the member for Motuekn repeated the came thing, I naturally concluded that he bad pot his information from the Premier, *sd in that case I said, asd I sity now, tlwt it is a slander circulated by the Premier."

Mr Pirani then withdrew, and the Premier moved a resolutios stating that the House regretted that Mr Pirani had used unparh'amei>tury language, and had refused to withdraw when called upon to do so by the Chairman of Committees. The Soeaker— "That does not go far enough."" Mr Seddon added to his motion that Mr Pirani be called upon to express regret. Mr 6eddon explained that he had never mentioned the matter referred to by the member for Motueka. Mr Piraui "was, therefore, wrong in fact as well as disorderly. Mr R. McKenzic said Mr Pirani, m the heat of debute, hiul used an expression regarding his (Mr McKenzie's) wife that he resented. Ho (Mr McKenzie) in what he **kl about Mr Pirani was only repenting * common rumour. Ho did not want to see Mr Pirani pun?*hed, and regretted that he had made the statement about that member in public. The Speaker said they must uphold the authority of the House, and the House must Vindicate its position if the member would submit himself.

Captain Russell »aid they must, of course, YUJdicate the honour of the House. They ttught censure a member guilty of conduct that was justifiable but at variance - with th* rules ai the House; but in doing so they censured him as members of Parliament, but not o* men. (Hear, hear.) The scene was enough to stir the blood of the coldestUood«d man. The member for Motueka had »f«red to Mr Pirani in the moot offen•iwway, as having his ear to the keyhole of Government offices. Then cam® further in the way that made one's very •oul quiver—holding a man's most sacred **l»4ions up to the public obloquy of the House. It was in righteous indignation that Mr Pirani told the House he had been slandered—that was what it was.

Mr J. Hutcheson said he would rather for«it his seat and turn his back on public life than be a party to any censure for what bad occurred that afternoon. •Mr Colvin stated that Mr Pirani bad first Jwerwd to Mr McKenxie's wife. He hoped wh would express regret. Mr Fowlds said he would be compelled to *°t« against the motion. They must go "Wk to the beginning of things—namely, the accusation that Mr Pirani had resorted to eneaking and backdoor means of getting l&forxnation.

Mr E. McKenxie said it had been «aid on EUhy occasions in the House, and was a Stttter o! general belief, that Mr Pirani got information from the heads of Departments »* was not entitled to. He could liav? given the lie direct to the incident Mr Pirani «*d mentioned regarding his (Mr McKea- *«'»> wife. The reference to Mr Pirani's Sivate affairs had been forced out of him. c would prefer that he and Mr Pirani should be allowed to settle the matter. Ha would certainly vote against Mr Pirani being I punished-

After further debate, Mr Sedclon replied *2»«fe he regretted that he had to propose toe motion, but he was bound to up&old

the chair. Hβ had made the motion aa merotful as possible. Hβ had never spoken to the member for Motueka about the matter referred to that aftsraoon, and did not remember ever having spoken to Mr Fisher about it.

The motion was carried without a division, and Mr Pirani was brought in. The Speaker tdd Mr Pirani the House had no dsaire to humiliate him in any way ■-{hear, hear}—but the authority of the chair must be upbtld. Mr Pirani said—"l feel sure no member of the House has less desire to transgress the rulings of the chair or to do anything offensive to the Oaaiaman of Committees or to yourself, *ir; but I hold there is a line that every man who respects himself must not step over, and that line is (whan a statement is mide like that made to-day by the member for Motueka and circulated by the Premier in other directions) not to allow the statement to be mads without characterising it in fittin* terms. The rules of the House prevent mc from characterising it in terms that every honourable member would justify mc in characterising it. It is extremely painful for mc to say I cannot recede from, the position I have taken up." Mr Pirani again withdrew, and the Speaker quoted the Standing Orders dealing with such cases.

Members gens rally expressed the desire that the punishment should be a# light as possible, and it was eventually decided that Mr Pirani should be suspended merely for the remainder of the day s sitting.