EVENING SITTING.

Press, Volume LIV, Issue 9886, 17 November 1897, Page 5

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30. COMMI-CTEE OF SOPPLf. The House went into Committee of Supply for the further consideration of the Esfcfmates. Department of Lands and Survey, £122,161. Mr ROLLESTON asked the Premier what course he proposed to take with respect to tho remainder of tho Estimates. He sjiid a rumour was prevalent that he intended forcing the Estimates through at this sitting, but it was manifest that the votes on the Estimates could not be properly. discussed if such a course was adopted. He referred to the fact that the Sessional Committed were not yet set up, and that the House was denied information which it had a right to got. The general opinion of the country was that the business of Parliament waa being blocked, owing to the refusal of the Government to furnish proper information to the House. Ho moved that progress be reported. '-■'•-. Mr SEDDON said the course just taken by Mr Rolleston" Was unprecedented. He deprecated the holding of a threat over the members who were prepared to go on with the business of the country. Ministers were perfectly ready to give till information as to how the public money was being spent, bat a motion to report progress was not the way to get that information. It was impossible for tbe Government to got on with other business till the "Estimates were throngb, and that was the reason he was bo anxious to get, them completed, so that the Public- Works Statement could be brought- down. There would bo plenty of opportunitidi to ventilate grievances on going into Supply, and it was therefore necessary to complete the Estimates. He would ask the House to go on with the business of the country. Mr ROL-LESTON said his reason for asking to report progress was to enable him to speak on various subjects he wished to bring before the Premier. Mr SOOBIE MACKENZIE said if the course taken was unprecedented, it was because they had an unprecedented Standing Order, which prevented them from bringing forward any grievances on Tuesdays* It was well known that if the Premier got his Estimates through he could snap his fingers at them, and close the Session without setting up Committees or passing a, single Bill, and then it would be quite in accord with his usual style to tell the country thai the Opposition prevented him from passing any legislation. The Opposition were determined iM properly discuss the Estimate*, and to see that the business of the- country was conducted in a proper way. Mr DUNCAN twitted the Opposition with not following their leading, but indulging in free lance tactics.- The Opposition were greatly mistaken if they thought they would conduct the business of the House, and he hoped they would allow work to jjo on without any moro delay. Mr BUCHANAN said the Opposition were driven to take the course they we?e taking by the unreasonable conduct of the Premier in refusing them information of every kind. A great change had now come over the face of matters, and the constituencies were making themselves felt through their member!, -be-Ration could

not be more unsatisfactory than it was at present. Mr HOGG blamed the Opposition for stopping the course of business, and said their whole aim seemed to be to block legisl-tion. Sir ROBERT STOUT could not underatand the position. There must have been tome arrangement between the Government and the Opposition to block business. As ho understood it, Mr Rolleston's motion to report progress was merely a formal one to enable the Premier to say whether or not the rumour was correct that be intended forcing estimates right through the House. He held it was not fair to the Left Wing that an arrangement should be made between the Government and the Opposition to block business without consulting that section of the House. Mr WASON said the Opposition were accused, without the slightest justification, of obstructing the business of the House, bat the fact was, although they had been eight weeks in session, not a single Bill of any importance had yet been brought down by the Government. It was nothing short of a-pnblic scandal that they should be kept discussing the public estimates for twentyJonr or thirty hours at a time.

After further discussion,

Mr SEDDON said they could not tell •what time they would rise till he saw whether reasonable progress was made with the estimates.

The motion for reporting progress was lost on the voices.

Mr RICHARDSON asked whether anything had been done in the classification of lands and the Survey Department. He advocated the layint* out of roacU in a systematic manner, aud said the colony lost hundreds ot thousands by roads being badly laid out, Which also greatly hindered settlement. Mr M-KENZIE said, with regard to classification, he hod endeavoured during his term of office to adhere to the system of classification initiated by Mr Richardson when he was Minister for Lands, namely, by giving all promotion to senior officers. Respecting the appointment of surveyors, he said the Department had suffered through the valuations of young surveyors, but a different aystem was now in force, and when a mistake was made they tried to rectify it. In reply to questions Mr M'KENZIE defended the inct eases in salaries made in his Department, and said no higher salaries were increased, but small increases of £10 each were made to twenty country surveyors who had to do hard work, and to whom £210 a year was not too much. He was prepared to justify every increase made in his Department. The plans issued from the Department were prepared in Wellington, and no delay„that was avoidable took place in issuing them. Mr TAYLOR moved to reduce the vote £650 for Assistant Surveyor-General by £1, as an indication that the House is of opinion that increases in large salaries are undesivable.

Mr M'KENZIE said the reason for the increase was to put this officer on a par with other officers of the same class. This slight incri-ase of £25 waa well deserved, as Mr Barron was practically in charge of the Department. Mr SEDDON said the Government had established the principle that no increases should be made in salaries over £200. This year tho general principle was carried out that no salaries over £250 should be in creased, except in special cases. No Government had been more just to those who received small salaries than the present Government.

Mr TAYLOR said Mr M'Kcnz.ie's defence supplied him with the very argument he wanted. If Mr Barron was practically in charge of tho Department why not make him the real head and do away with the Surveyor-General '! Mr M'KENZIE said the SurveyorGeneral's work was very different from that of the Assistant Surveyor.

Mr PIRANI objected to increases in higher salaries, and supported the reduction.

Mr RICHARDSON defended the Sur-veyor-General as being a most valuable officer.

Mr ROLLESTON, speaking with some experience of the Lands Department, believed the Assistant Surveyor-General to be an efficient and valuable officer, and he could not support the reduction. The Lands Department was generally well officered.

.Mr GRAHAM was pleased to hear two ex-Minis tors for Lands defend this office. He hoped Mr Taylor would withdraw his amendment.

Captain RUSSELL pointed out that the ooJony had already lost some good officers because they were insufficiently paid. He instanced Messrs Crowtbers, O'Connor, Bell, and others who bad left the New Zealand service and gone to ether colonies at much higher salaries. He contended that the cost of the Civil Service would really be lessened if they paid men of •uperior ability good salaries. It was well known that good officers were more highly paid in other colonies than in this colony. They were departing from the true principle of economy if they reduced the salaries of good officers, and ho hoped the amendment would not be carried.

Mr TAYLOR'S amendment was lost on the voices.

After v lengthy debate, Mr TAYLOR moved to reduce the total Vote of £122,161 by Is. Lost by 46 to 11, and the total vote passed. Miscellaneous services, £9155. Mr WASON moved that the item, fees to members of the Waste Lands Boards, £1500, be reduced by £1, as an indication that members of the House should not be appointed to these Boards. Mr J. M'KENZIE said he was quite willing to abide by the decision of the House on the subject. Messrs Pirani, Hogg, Taylor and Tanner •aving spoken, Mr MONTGOMERY moved that the item be reduced by £5, as an indication that Land Boards should be elective. He said that the Boards should be elected by a •Bounty vote; Mr CROWTHER supported this motion, and said the general opinion was that only members of the right colour were appointed to Land Boards.

•Mr M. J. S. MACKENZIE said that J r MM V*J_| *•-*• not sincere in demanding that lAMßoards should be elective, and were "perfectly indifferent whether their views *~«r» carried out or not. _' **ir Montgomery's motion wu negatived by 31 to 21, »nd Mr Waaon. was lost on the voices.

• Mr J. M'KENZIE, in reply to questions, ♦k _* the A B ei -t-General had reported JjO wm subject of securing the services of a WMW"a*Jogist, and his report was being con-aide-red by Dr. Macgregor ; that in order to $_r_i7SL-f old ' er9 whoße claims amounted to £400,000 another chance to prove their *"*•»■» the present Commission had been ■et up, and the delay in the progress of the UMnmißMon was due to the fact that the UoaunM>«ion bad sent to England for the ajjeharßes, of a large number of claimants, •"•oosay they have lost their discharges. __**? , vote w *" still under discussion when we Telegraph Office closed.