LYTTELTON HARBOUR BOARD.

Press, Volume LII, Issue 9114, 27 May 1895, Page 3

LYTTELTON HARBOUR BOARD.

THE DREDGING QUESTION.

A special meeting of the Lyttelton Harbour Board, called by the Chairman on a requisition from several of the members, was held on Saturday morning to reconsider the question of the charter of the Otago Harbour Board's dredge. There were present —Messrs J. Joyce (Chairman), E. G. Wright, F. Graham, AY. Duulop, W. Langdown, P. Cunningham, N. C. Schumacher, F. Waymouth, D. "McMillan, I. Gibbs, Hon. J. T. Peacock and Captains McClatchie and Parsona.

A telegram was received from Mr J. Hay apologising for absence. The Chairman* said members would remember what transpired at the last special meeting in connection with the Otago Harbour Board's dredge. A few days after that meeting Captain Willis, who was Surveyor for the Underwriters' Association, wrote him a letter, which would be read, and subsequently Mr Gibbs informed him that the Kaikoura on going out had grounded. In the face of that letter and Mr Gibbs' statement he said that if a requisition were sent to him asking him to call a special meeting to consider the question of the dredge he would do so. That requisition had been submitted and the meetiDg was the outcome. The matter of the Aotea, which wan referred to in the letter, he did not attach very much importance to at the last meeting, but the statement concerning the Kaikoura grounding appeared to him to be of such importance as to warrant him calling a special meeting, because he did not think, in the face of what had been said, that he was justified in having the responsibility thrown on himself, fle would ask the Secretary to read tbe correspondence on the subject. Captain Parsons asked if it were necessary to publish anything about the Kaikoura grounding. Mr Wright pointed out that it was merely a statement. Before the meeting proceeded to discuss the general question, he would ask the Chairman's ruling upon Clause sof the by-laws. Under that clause certain notice had to be given. No such notice was given, and he presumed that all they could do now was to give notice of the snbject for the meeting on Thursday next. That wa3 his reading of the clause, but tbe Board would be guided by the Chairman's ruling on the point. Mr Cunningham drew attention to Clause 43, which provided for the Secretary calling a special meeting.. . The Hon. Mr Peacock considered tbat clause 43 sanctioned the action of the Chairman in calling the meeting.

The Chairman said he would like to call attention to the fact bhab they had had a special meeting bo consider bhe subject. The present circumstances were urgent. If he were to rulo aa Mr Wright suggesbed bhe whole consideration of this important question would be frusbrabed. . They would remember the posibion ab the last meeting. He now ruled that under clause 6 the circumstances of the meeting were urgent, bherefore the whole matter could be discussed, and under clause 43 he ruled that the meeti-g was in order. The Secretary then read the following letters :—

From Captain Willis, Surveyor to Lloyds, dated May2obh :—"By the newspaper report of last Harbour Board meeting I learn thab it has been decided bo dispense wibh bhe services of the dredge now working in Lybbelbon harbour. Allow mc bo bring bo your notice several facts in connection with this matter. Ib is quite true thab inside of the moles great improvements have been made, bub the most important part has been neglecbed, viz., the approach to and entrance between the moles. This has not been touched, so thab steamers of heavy draughb can only enber or leave ab high water. On the 18th inst,, the s.s. Aotea, wibh a draughb of 27fb, had bo leave the wharf with two ballast tanks empty in order to enable her to clear the channel outside the moles, there being plenty of water at her load berth, bub nob sufficient in the channel leading out of the harbour. These tanks being empty (their capacity is about 350 tons) made the steamer extremely tender—in my estimation dangerously so— but it was the only course-to pursue in order to enable the vessel to.complete her cargo inside the moles. Once deep water waa reached these tanks would be filled up, and the ship would be perfectly safe. It is quite useless having deep water alongside the wharves if vessels have to be placed in a dangerous position in order to enable them bo leave the port. Allow mc to point oub thab shipowners, wheu they find this to be the case, will most certainly issue instructions barring this harbour as a final port of departure for large and deep draught steamers. As no doubt you are aware, ib is my duby to reporb all such cases as thab of bhe Aobea to bhe Underwriters' Association, and to the Committee of Lloyds, both of whom I represent at this port. Trusting that in the interests of the port, and in tbe face of these facts your Board will give this matter their further consideration.-—I am, &c, ——. P.i_. —I may state thab if one tank, which contains 140 tons, had been full, the Aotea would have been quite safe ; 140 tons would make about 3in of difference in this vessel's draught."

From Capb. Clark, Harbour Master, under date May 22nd:—"In reply to Captain Willis' letter of the 21sb, I can only say that I have already forwarded my reporb on the condibion of the harbour as regards dredging requirements, aud cannot see any reason to alter it. Unless the Board is prepared to dredge a channel outside the moles 400 or 500 feet wide, and extending to Stoddart'a Point, ib is useless commencing; the work. To enable steamers of the size of the Aotea to go oub ab any state of the tide would necessitate a very heavy expenditure, and no good would be done unless the work is completed."

The Chairman then moved—*' That the resolution to return the dredge, passed ab the last meeting, be rescinded."

Mr Schumacher seconded bhe motion.

Mr Wright said the Chairman had stated, on the aubhoriby of Mr Gibbs, bhab the Kaikoura grounded. Now, reading Capbain Willis's reporb, ib appeared bo him to have been inspired for the occasion, for that gentleman said in that reporb that he reported all such cases aa the Aotea. There were sufficient members of the Underwriters' Association present to tell him, and he (Mr Wright) would, like, in order to show what reliance ought to be placed on such statements, to know whebher Captain Willis reported that the Kaikoura struck, because he was informed that there was undoubted evidence thab she did nob strike.

Captain Parsons remarked that Captain Willis did nob say thab the Kaikoura struck. .*'.•- Mr Wright—Captain Willis said it was his duty to report sucji cases. If it was his duty to report one case, it waa also his duty to report another. The Chairman said that he did not think the Board could ask members of the Underwriters' Association to answer thab question. Mr CuNMJfGHAM aaked if Mr Wrighb would say who of those pieaent were members of the Underwriters' Association. If he (Mr Cunningham) were one, he would answer the question. He thoughb Mr Wright's remarks were rather bitter, to begin with. Mr Graham said he held the position of Chairman of the Underwriter*}' Association, bub he did not remember Capbain Willis having reported the grounding of the Kaikoura. As Chairman of the Association, he might say that they had great confidence in Captain Willis' reports, and he was perfectly sure thab had Captain Willis been aware that the Kaikoura had touched, he would have reported it. He (Mr Graham) had sent to see if the matter had been reported. Mr Waymouth said that as the harbourmaster was present, it might be well to call him in to give some information on the subject. He (Mr Waymouth) was informed by the Pilot that she did not strike.

The Hon. Mr Peacock asked if these cases were reported to the Board.

The Secretary answered that tbe Harbour Master reported them when they occurred.

Mr Schumacher said the Kaikoura waa in an awkward position when she went outHe considered they should put an end to this kind of trouble by continuing the use of the dredge. Mr Wright, who said he had not finished, continued that he disclaimed any feelings of bitterness in the matter. He had been a member of the Board for eighteen years, and no member could point to any vote of his as being adverse to the interest- of the-

Board. It seemed to him that members were led away by representations that had been made. The Chairman on the authority of Mr Gibbs said the Kaikoura struck. Captain Willis' duty was to report such cases as the Aotea, but they were informed that he had nob reported the Kaikoura. He (Mr Wright) claimed that in tho interests of thepublic and the Board they should know what truth there was in it. He wished to have this matter cleared up before proceeding further, even should they have to call in Captain Clark. Mr Gibbs said that when the K-ikoura went out she huug outside the moles for fully twenty minutes. For reasons he was not prep-red to state to the Board he was sa.iaued that she was aground in the mud, and was in that position for twenty minutes. He was not prepared to say for what reason the report came up that she did not touch, for he had good reason for knowing that the vessel was on the ground. Mr Graham said he was not sure about Captaiu Willis having reported on the K-iikoura. Mr Gibbs asked if Captain Clark was on board the steamer when she went out. The man they wanted waa he who was on board. The following report, dated May 17-95, waa read from Pilot Galbraith— " In reference to a paragraph which appears in this morning- Press shipping news re the s.s. Kaikoura touching on a mud bank outside the eastern breakwater, I beg to inform you that the s.a. Kaikoura left the wharf at 10.5 a.m. high water, drawing 25f0 6tn water. On leaving the wharf found the ship had a list of about, 7deg to port and therefore could not answer her starboard helm. I told the master I would stop her outside the Moles aud tow her rouud with the tug, and while towing her round she never had less than 2fb of water under her. I also beg to draw your attention to the fact that the s.s. Aotea came in oa the same tide an hour and a half before high water, drawing 25ft oin.

Mr Wright said the letter was perfectly clear that the Kaikoura did not drag on the mud.

The following letter was read from Captain Clarke, Harbour Master, uuder date of May 18th:— '* I wish to draw your attention to a paragraph iv the Press of the 17ch inst. staling thab the s.s. Kaikoura grounded on a mud bank when going out and remained there some time, and got the tug to tow her off. I may state tuat there is no truth in the statement at all. The ship having a strong list to port, she could nob come round, and Pilob Galbraith was working her in deep water by coming astern and taking the tug to assist he'-." Mr Wright resumed hia remarks. The motion was to rescind a resolution of the previous meeting. That resolution had been arrived at after the fullest discussion by a full meeting of the Board. Now they had a special meeting called at short nobice, when ib was diificulb for counbry members to be present, and Mr Hay was absent. He referred to this to show the inoonvenience of calling a special meeting in such a manner and at such a time. Now he wonld like to ask members to consider what they were going to accomplish by retaining the dredge for another period of six months. The work thab had to be effectively done was was not the work ot six months bub of bwo or three years, and Captain Clark's letter was clear on that point. Under thab reporb, he thoughb ib was quice clear that the work could not be complete- by retaining the dredge for six months. He had never advocated the penny-wise and pound-foolish system in dealing with harbour matters, and if members after full inquiry were satisfied that the work was desirable and necessary, then let it be done properly ; don't boggle at it by engaging the dredge for six months and then sib down after the work had been barely commenced. The credit of the Board stood equal to any other Board in the colony and if they wanted to borrow £50,000 to place their harbour in the best condibion possible there was no doubb in his mind bhab bhey would, if they applied, receive the sanction of Parliament to do so. Mention had been made about deepening the outer harbour lfb in a channel 400 ft or 500 ft wide. If they wanted to make the harbour such that the big vessels could come and go, nob merely at high waber, bub some libble time before and after, more than an extra foot depth would be wauted, and the channel would need to be IQQOfb wide. He deprecated spy undue haste in the matter. He would soonar support a loan of £50,000 to do bhe work properly, if the work were found to be necessary after, reliable evidence had been taken on the subject. Then they should do ib properly, and at-, the same time as inexpensively as possible. By continuing bhe use of Dredge 222 they were continuing bhe use of an expensive vessel. AVhen they had bheir own* dredge it cost them about 6i per yard, and bhis cost them about 9, d. Then, were they at the end of six months to sbay all proceedings ? Whab would be bheir position then? Far bebter would ib be to grapple with the thing at once, for they could promote a Bill through Parliament this session to raise a loan for the work. They were told at a previous meeting thab if cerbain things were done bhe Shaw, Savill boabs would make Lyttelton their port of deparbure. Ib was their port of departure for some years, and then those who had the control of the movements of these boats selected Wellington. The Board was told then that they were losing their prestige in this reapecb because the transhipment of coal was such an expensive item. The Board met bhis by the removal of the transhipment of coal charges to make the port as free as possible for these vessels. Now, were these vessels going bo reburn to Lyttelton as the port of departure? That should have some weight in considering a matber of such magnitude as the one under discussion, but they had no guarantee thab they would. Then, on the other hand, low prices for bhe last few years might have had a depressing effect on some people, and they might have jumped bo bhe conclusion that bhey would have no chauce of gebting a loan to make their harbour the besb in the colony. He was not one of the pessimistic class. We had had Ereviously equally bad times and bad prices, ub he thoughb bhab presenbly we should see a material improvement in the exports of Canterbury. For thab reason he would rather see this matter referred to a Select Committee—say the Harbour Improvement Committee —for full investigation, and if they brought up a reporb thab it was desirable to dredge a channel of a substanbial widbh bo Sboddart's Point he would supporc them.

The Hon. Mr Peacock said ib appeared bo him thab bhe turning poinb was the difficulty in connection with bhe harbour. Ab all events bhe difficulby could be gob over, he thought, by the dredge in six months' work. He said he was glad the meeting had been called, and would like bo say bhab he thought that if the reports were made by the reporters a little fuller the public would be taking a larger interest in this and other business of the Board than they did ab bhe preaenb bime. Of acybbing that was done the most meagre reports were given. He thoughb ib was very fortunate that Captain Willis interested himself. Mr Wright had'remarked thab bhab gentleman's report appeared to have been inspired. He (Mr Peacock) could nob say whebher it waa. He met Capbain Willis one day in tbe presence of Mr Graham and another member, and Capbain Willis, in a natural way, observed that the Board had made a mistake, and said thab he would have to put his opinion to Lloyd's. Then the question of the Aotea was brought up, and the party thoughb ib would be betber that the whole matter should be reconsidered. The Board had done well in the past, and it would be a pity if they ceased bo do so. He wonld like to see the resolution rescinded before any serious consequences happened to Lyttelton. If one vessel struck ib would cosb the Board a considerable amount to put her in a proper position, and the port would be damned for a considerable length of time. If they had the interests of the place ab heart they must put their harbour on a fair footing to compete with any other harbour in the colony. It was a matber of importance, especially when they looked at the expenditure which would be made on coals, labour, provisions, &c, and on inward and outward cargo. If a vessel made Wellington ber first port of call when she was deep, and her port of departure when she was deep, look at what Lyttelton lost. Then tbey had to remember bhab ships all (over the world were increasing in size, and the* Board should keep up with the times. Of course, during the past the dredge had done good work, bub when they made the charter work was to be done outside. It might be a mistake to do the work inaide first, but having

done that they ought to do the work outside to complete it. Then, supposing they dredged for six months and found that the work was not quite complete they could keep her a little longer. As to the report about the Kaikoura having 2ft of water under her, he did nob believe it. She might have had 2ft of mud. As bo more than Ift more of waber beiug needed, he was of opinion that a foob additional would permit of such boats as the Aotea and Kaikoura going out safely, aud in six months he felt that the corner where all the trouble occurred would be cut otf.

Mr Gruiam said he had refreshed his memory, and found bhat Captain Willis did not report on the Kaikoura. In signing the requisition he (Mr Graham) did so because he thought the matter needed further discn.siou. It was expedient that they should go on dredging so far as practicable uutil the requirements of the port were met-, especially also in view of the rivalry which existed for harbour business. As to the cost of the dredge, he believed that the figures would show that there waa not so much difference its that stated by Mr Wright. Probably to the 6d, the cost of their own dredge, had to be added the loss on the sale of the dredge. From some figures he received from the Secretary, he was uuder the impression that their own dredge cost them over Is per yard.

The Secretary said that the cost on capitalising the cost of the dredge would be about 7d per yard.

Mr Graham continued that shipowners and others interested were of opinion that a little more dredging would do good, and he felt that the mouey on another six months' work would be well spent if they did no more than stop the talk about ships' grounding.

Mr Gibbs said he signed the requisition because he had information that the Kaikoura had grounded. He was glad to hear the Harbour Master's report that she did not, and he was quite prepared to accept that statement. Mr Wright seemed to emphasise the fact that what was required was a channel which these large ocean steamers could enter and leave the harbour at low water. (Mr Wright—At a short time before or after high tide—not ab low water). He thought all that was required now was to dredge about 2ft more ab the bend, so that vessels could get round more easily. That, he thought, would be all that was needed at present, aud six months' work would probably accomplish thab. Captain Parsons was also of the opinion thab all thab was wanted was to increase the facilities in the channel for slewing rou'id.

Captain McClatchie—Can you inform mc if the Aotea left Lybbelton the same day as the Kaikoura ?

The Chairman —No ; she did nob. Capbain McClatcuie aaked how many tanks the Aotea carried .

Mr Schumacher said she carried two for'ard and two aft. The two aft were emptied.

Captain McClatchie said ib was peculiar bhab so much had been said aboub this matter. It was stated thab the Aotea had to empty bwo banks, and she was drawing 27fb. Ib had been known thab vessels drawing 27fc 6in had left Lyttelton, and they had never been mentioned as having struck or touched the ground. Capbain Willis had said the vessel was in danger by reason of her tanks being empty. This was an important abatement as concerned vessels going to England. It appeared to him that if the vessel was in such a condition as Capt. Willis said, then she must have been badly stowed; she had not enough dead weight in her bobbom. Mr Cunningh-m asked if bhe Board were considering bhe stabiliby of the Aotea, or the retention of the dredge ? The Chairman ruled thab Capb. McClaichie's remarks were oub of order.

Capt. McClatchie proceeded that there was no statement that the Aotea touched the ground, or was inconvenienced, and she drew 27ft 2in. Mr Graham drew his attention to bhe fact bhab ib was 26ft llin. Well, that was near enough bo 27ft. If steamship companies were determined to introduce sbeamers of more draughb bhan at present, and considered bhe Harbour Board should meeb those requirements, ib would be time enough then for tbe Board to take the matter up. It further appeared to him that if the Board had to continue improving for deeper draught ships, every, additional 6in would cost the Board many thousands of pounds. If the Companies wished to rebain the trade at the pore they had sbeamers ;to do it, bub there had been nothing said about it until something had suddenly taken place to the Kaikoura and Aobea. * Now they learned that there was nothing wrong with the Kaikoura, bub bhe Aotea, being a larger ship, she was to require more water to make her navigation safe when she went oub of Lybbelton. He agreed with Mr Wright, and if they could make bhe port fit for vessels to come in and go oub on half-bide he would support it-. Bub sbeamers had been in bhe habit of waiting for high water, and there had been no previous complaint thab he knew of. He would like to know if any ocean-going steamers had grounded outside. The Secretary said they had had no reporb during bhe last bwo years. Previous to thab bhere had been complaint. Captain McClatchie continued that he had never heard of any steamer leaving for any English port grounding outside. If any member of the Board could show him where the Board would be benefited by retaining the dredge, he would be one of the first to support ib. Bub it appeared to him bhab bo provide bhe additional 2fb or 3ft of water, said to be required, would bake eighbeen months instead of six. To keep the dredge the latter length of time would be doing no good ; bhey would be only soraping, and nob dredging. Mr McMillan was about to speak concerning the calling of the meeting, but was ruled oub of order by bhe Chairman. He proceeded that ab the last, meebing bhey had a full Board, when the queabion was fully considered. Since then rumours had gone about and statements had been made which were nob borne oub by the reports of bhe Board's officers, yeb the Chairman had : called bhis special meeting ab shorb nobice and ab an inconvenient time. The genble-' men who had called bhe meeting had advanced nothing original or new. He liked bo meeb wibh gentlemen who could accept a defeat, but bhe only reason there appeared to be for the meebing being called was thab the vote went against those geablemen. The Hon. Mr Peacock said they denied thab such was bhe reason.

Mr McMillan continued that if there wa3 any advantage to be gained by retaining the diedge for six months he would support it. Bub there was nob. They had bhe tides and comfortable berths for the vessels to he in. Th_b was sufficienb. Besiaes ib had been shown thab* the cost was 25 per cenb.—(Mr Wrighb—" Fifty.") — heavier than the coat of bhe Board's own dredge. He agreed with the views advanced by Mr Wrighb. Mr Dun_o_* looked upon it as -farce to re-enact what had been done at bhe lasb meebing, and whatever happened that day would be gained by a catch vote, as all the members were nob present. As far as they heard about the Aotea, had she kept an even keel she would have been all right. Then again, bheir officers had reported that ab presenb the Board had done all bhab could be done. If th.y could not stand by their officers' report, then they had better dismiss the officers and find others.

Mr Schumacher was of opinion that they should make Lyttelton the final port of departure, which would mean nearly £2000 a year to the place ou every large boat. According to the map of sounding*-, heavy draughb vessels must drag and no one could convince him otherwise. He thought Captain Willis deserved credit for having scab iv his reporb.

Mr Graham said nothing was further from his mind than to endeavour to carry the matter by a catch-vote.

Mr Waymouth said he agreed with Mr Wrighb thab they wanbed a scheme for thoroughly dredging., From what he knew of bhe Board's finance he was sure they could nob afford to do the work proposed by the retention of the dredge for six months. Ib would mean £4000 thrown away and bhey had not that amouub «o throw away. At bhe last meebing the Secrebary had sbated that they had £9000 on fixed deposit, but they were not told that £5000 of that amount was earmarked. Thab would leave only £4000 available, and the dredge would coat bhem over £5000 for six months. There was a Urge amount of money wanbed on the renovation of the tug. This added to the cost of the dredge would leave them ab the end of six months in a position the law did not permit them to get into, viz., in tbe position oi having an overdraft.

The Chairman said he had always advo* cated dredging, bub this dredge was a most expensive one, and that was why he had voted against the retention of it. Since the last meeting, however, they had received the report from Capbain Willis, and the statement made by Mr Gibbs. He thought the matter of such gravo importance that he could nob havo ib resting on his own shoulders, and called bhe meeting for itconsideration. Members would remember, that it was on his casting vote only that the * main question was decided ab the last meeting, and partly on thab account had he called the present meeting. If the motion were rescinded they would be in the position they were before it was carried at the last meeting. The motion was then put and carried by 7 votes to 6. Ayes—Messrs Cunniugham, Graham, Gibbs, Schumacher, Hou. J. T. Peacock, Capt. Parsous and the Chairman ; uoes—Messrs Wright, Langdown, Dunlop, McMillan, Waymouth, and Capt. McClabchie.

The Hon. J. T. Peacock moved—" That arrangements be made with the Otago Harbour Board for the chartering of their dredge for a further term of six months."

Mr Schumacher seconded the motion. Mr Waymouth moved as an amendment —" That the dredge be retained for three months." His idea in moving this was that in that time a cerbain amounb ot work would be done which chey could afford to do, and at the same time ib would give the Board an opportunity of going carefully into their finances, and see where they wero. At the present moment he was confident they could nob afford to pay for six months' dredging. Mr Langdown seconded the amendment.

The Hon. J. T. Peacock opposed the amendment.

Captain Parsons said he would support ib if Mr Waymouth would qualify it and say thab if the wort was not done in three months they should retain the dredge for another three months.

Mr Wright said he should vote against both motion and amendment. There was nothing in bbc position Mr Waymouth took up, it waa opposed to hia. Mr Waymouth opposed the six months because there was not enough money for three months, and be (Mr Wright) opposed both because he considered they had better go iv for a proper scheme than foolishly spend their money. The amendment was negatived on the voices.

The motion was carried by 7 votes to 6. Ayes—Messrs Cunningham, Graham, Gibbs, Schumacher, Hon. J. T. Peacock, Captain Parsons and the Chairman. Noes—Messrs Wright, Langdown, Dunlop, McMillan, Waymouth and Captain McClatchie. Mr Wright gave notice to move—" That bhe motion passed bhis day be reconsidered ab the regular meeting of bhe Board to bf held next week." The Board bhen adjourned.