HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Press, Volume L, Issue 8588, 15 September 1893, Page 5

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thursday, September 14. committee of supply. After the Telegraph Office closed, The House proceeded with the consideration of the estimates. Defence Department—£9so. Several members urged that the Defence estimates be deferred till after the discussion was taken on Colonel Fox's report, but Mr Seddon could not agree with this course. Iv reply to a question, Mr SEDDON stated that he would announce the intention of the Government with regard to the Defence Engineer when Colonel Fox's report was under discussion. Captain RUSSELL remarked that the defences of the colony were absolutely worthless, and the country vulnerable at every point. Mr HAMLIN said the present Defence Minister had established a dry routine for the whole of the Volunteer services of the colony. Sir R. STOUT said that Colonel Fox's report was practically a dead letter, and the Government never intended to carry it ont. The PREMIER waa again urged to report progress, but he asked members to be reasonable and get on with the business. Mr ROLLESTON contended that if the House passed these Estimates it would practically set aside. CoL Fox's report. After a lengthy discussion, Mr SEDDON undertook to bring on CoL Fox's report for consideration at 7.30 p.m. on Tuesday. ■' Captain RUSSELL said the whole question was now prejudiced, and if the House passed the present estimates it was equivalent to declaring that Colonel Fox's estimates would be rejected. At 4 a. m. a motion to report progress was lost by 20 to 8. Mr ROLLESTON asked why no proviwaa made on the Estimates for staff officers. Mr SEDDON replied that it had been arranged with Colonel Fox that no staff officer would be appointed until he came out, and if he made a favourable recommendation the Government would be prepared to consider the advisableness of making the appointment. The vote was agreed to without alteration. Permanent Militia and Volunteers, £52,767. In reply to Captain Russell, Mr SEDDON said that more ammunition had been ordered, the vote for which would appear on the supplementary estimates. The vote was agreed to without alteration. Siores and magazine, £3371. Agreed to. Miscellaneous services, £8616. Agreed to. Police Department, £90,619. Mr FERGUS said there was a seething aiass of discontent in the force at present, and he feared the efficiency of the force was being very considerably impaired by the overbearing conduct of some of the officers. The feelingVas gaining ground that old and tried men in the service were sacrificed to favoritism. Mr SEDDON said he certainly had not heard of the state of things depicted by Mr Fergus, and he would make the fullest inquiry into the truth of the matter. The total vote was passed unaltered. At 5.20 the Justice Department Estimates were brought on in spite of protests from Messrs RoUeston and Bruce. The Native members again brought np the question of £7000 appropriation or Native affairs, i

Mr ROLLESTON asserted that the Patent Office was paid out oi money set apart for the Natives in the Civil list. The discussion on this point was carried • to a considerable length. Mr MITCSELSON considered that now there was no Native Department it was not right to pay the clerks of the Justice Department out of the Native Civil list. The PREMIER promised to enquire folly into the matter and see that no injustice was done to the Natives. At 6.40 a division was called on the first item, Department of Justice and Patent Office salaries £876, by Mr Rolleston as a protest against the payment of these officers out of the Civil List. Tae item was passed by 21 to 12. The following items were alao passed :— Crown Law Office, £2185; Supreme Court, £6600; Bankruptcy, £6337 ; District Magistrates' and Wardens , Court, £43.436 ; Native Lands Court, £15,921; Criminal Prosecution, £9250 ; Coroners, .£2500. On the vote for prisons, £29,291, Mr HAM.LIN moved that the salary of the Inspector of Prisons, £700, be reduced by £1, as an indication that LieutenantColonel Hume should not be retained in the offices of Under Secretary for Defence and Commissioner of Police. Mr SEDDON defended the vote and spoke in appreciation of the work done by Lieutenant-Colonel Hume. As Mr Hamlin was the only supporter of the amendment, no division could be taken. Mr ROLLESTON referred to the release of Kerr, of cornet fame. Mr SEDDON said that when the whole correspondence relating to the case was laid on the table hon. members would approve the action of the Government in interfering with the course of justice. The total vote for the department was agreed to without alteration. On the Legislative estimates being called on at 7.50, Mr ROLLESTON entered a strong protest against taking up more work at this hour. He thought that the proceedings of the night, though conducted with the utmost decorum throughout, were highly discreditable to them as legislators. At eight o'clock the House adjourned for breakfast. On resuming at nine o'clock, Mr ROLLESTON moved that progress be reported, as he objected dealing with the Legislative Estimates when so many members were-absent. The proceedings of the night had been humiliating. Sir R. STOUT condemned the all-night sittings which the Government had forced ou the House. The PREMIER urged that the Legislative Estimates be gone on with now. They did not involve the questions raised in the privileges report. Sir R. STOUT said if the Premier had the discussions on Colonel Fox's report and the Privileges Committee report before taking the Estimates they would be gone through without the least trouble. Sir JOHN HALL could not help saying th&t it seemed as though there was something behind the Premier's action. It looked as though the forcing through of the Estimates was part of a scheme for the frustration of woman's suffrage. The PREMIER said until he got these estimates away he could not bring down the Public Works Statement nor close the session, as he hoped, by the end of the month. The Government's action over the Estimates had no connection with the Electoral Bill. Mr GEO. HUTCHISON suggested that the House should insist on hearing that the Electoral Bill had received the assent of the Governor before they passed the remainder of the Estimates. They had a right to withhold supplies until the will oi Parliament was acceded to. The discussion went on at considerable length, the whole question ot the control of the Legislative officers being gone into. At 12.15 Sir R. STOUT suggested that a compromise be effected, and advised the Government to set apart to-morrow night for the consideration of the report of the Privileges Committee. Mr McKENZIE pointed out that the Premier had already said the opportunity would be given to discuss the report. Several members urged the Premier to adjourn the House for a couple of hours to enable some compromise to be arrived at, but Mr Seddon could not see bis way clear to da this. Mr ROLLESTON thought, as the Government were believers in the principle of conciliation and arbitration, they should agree to a short adjournment. Eventually Mr SEDDON agreed to fix Monday week as the date for the discussion of the report of the Privileges Committee. A motion*to report progress was put and lost. In reply to Mr Hutchison, Mr SEDDON said the fears expressed by several hon. members as to the fate of the Bill were entirely groundless. The vote for the Legislative Department, £15,324, was under discussion at one o'clock, when the House adjourned.

AFTERNOON SITTING.

The House resumed at 2.30 p.m. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. House of Representatives, £3862. The vote was carried without discussion. General expenses, £10,162. This vote was carried without discussion. Working railways, £729,000. Mr G. HUTCHISON asked whether the Premier was responsible for those Estimates. Mr SEDDON said he was not responsible for them ; they were compiled by the Railway Commissioners. Mr G. HUTCHISON contended that the House should have some control over those Estimates, and he should like to know how that could be effected. He pointed out that there were several increases this year over last year. Mr RICHARDSON demurred entirely to the Premier's statement that he was not responsible for those Estimates. The Government were responsible for all the Estimates they brought down. He might say that when Sir H. Atkinson's Government were in office the Railway Commissioners submitted their Estimates to the Government in the same manner as heads of other departments. The Government reviewed the Estimates and consulted with the Commissioners. - He said that the strained relations between the Commissioners and the present Government was owing to Mr Seddon'e own treatment in refuting to consult them. Mr SEDDON said there were certain regulations in the Railway Department, over which the Government of the day had no control, and the Railway Estimates were framed in accordance with these regulations. If the Minister for Public Works were to say to the Commissioners that they should cut down their Estimates, it would be held as an unwarrantable interference on the Minister's part. As there would probably be an opportunity later on of going into the whole question of railway management, he should not enter fully into it now. Mr ROLLESTON thought it waa an utterly false position for the Premier to take up when he said he was not responsible for the Railway Estimates. Hβ (Mr Rolleston) had had a good deal of departmental experience, and if Estimates were presented to him that he did not agree with he should absolutely refuse to put them before the House. Ministers were simply a Standing Committee to see that the will of Parliament was carried out. Mr Seddon was bound to make himself acquainted with the Estimates, and if he thought the Commissioners had behaved improperly it was bis duty to suspend them. He was not there to defend the Commissioners, but he protested against the Premier constantly traducing absent men, who were placed in their position by Act of Parliament. Mr FERGUS spoke at some length in defence of the Railway Commissioners. In reply to Mr Seddon's statement that he could not get any detailed information from the Commissioners he (Mr Fergus) said he had never seen more detailed information than the return he had in his hand, supplied by the Railway Commissioners. The present Premier had used every effort to discredit the Railway Commissioners in the eyes of the House and of the country, but he had ntterly failed to do so. The fact was that every Farmers' Club throughout the colony and the people who used the railways most -were thoroughly satisfied on the whole with the Railway Commissioners' management, and the only fear was that the control of the railways might get into the hands of such a man as the Premier and Minister for Public Works. After a lengthy discussion, Mr SEDDON said there waa no wiah on bis pare to attack Uμ Commiuioatrs, bat

he bad to defend himself from the imputations made against Mm so frequently. He again asserted he should accept no responsibility for the Railway Estimates. Departmental offices, £52,815. MrG. HUTCHISON moved that this vote be reduced by £55, as an indication to the Railway Commissioners that the travelling expenses of the Department were too heavy and that the Committee disapproved of the increase in wages and granting extended leave. Agreed to ; the total vote as reduced to £728,995 then passed. Public buildings, £18,775. A lengthy discussion arose over the ventilation of the Parliamentary Buildings and the close crowding of the galleries that was periritted to take place whilst the House was sitting. Mr SEDDON promised to have the matter of ventiUtion attended to during the recess, and said he had an elaborate scheme in course of preparation with that object. The vote was carried. Sshool buildings, £51,000. In reply to questions, Mr SE'DDON said that when the Public Works Estimates were brought down he should ask his colleague (Mr Reeves) to give a detailed statement as to the manner in which the special vote of £15,000 for school buildings was to be expended. The vote passed. Government domains, £900. Carried without discussion. Inspection of machinery, £3100. Mr RHODES moved to reduce the item travelling expenses, rent of office, &c, £1585 by £5, as an indication to the Government that those charges should be reduced. The amendment wae finally withdrawn and the vote passed. Mr SEDDON moved that progress be reported, which was agreed to. CHEVIOT ESTATE DEBENTURES. A Bill authorising the Treasury to issue debentures in payment for the Cheviot Estate was received by message from the Governor and was read a first time. The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m.

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. TAIRUA LAND BILL. Mr J. MACKENZIE moved the second reading of the Tairua Land Bill to provide for the surrender of leases of Crown lands available for settlement at Tairua, Bay of Plenty. He said he proposed to refer the Bill to the Waste Lands Committee. Sir R. STOUT thought as the Bill dealt with Native lands it should go to the Native Affairs Committee. Mr RICHARDSON said the only thing he saw in the Bill was that the colony should get a fair return for concessions made to the Kauri Timber Company. Messrs SHERA, HOUSTON, and MαGOWAN also spoke on the Bill. The motion for second reading was agreed to on the voices and the Bill was referred to the Waste Lands Committee.

BILLS PASSED. Native Land Validation of Titles Bill. In committee on clause 16—Confirmation of certificates by Parliament, Mr SHEftA moved to insert a clause of the present Act which provides that certificates must be passed by both branches of the Legislature, this was lost by 41 to 5; the remaining clauses passed through Committee and the Bill was read a third time and passed. The Native Lands Court Certificates Confirmation Bill was committed, read .a third time, and passed. On the motion that the Conspiracy Law Amendment Bill be committed, some discussion ensued, but the Bill passed with the amendments made by the Labour Bills Committee, was read a third time and passed. The Halswell River Drainage District Bill and District Courts Jurisdiction Extension Bill were committed, read a third time, and passed. MINING ACT AMENDMENT. Mr SEDDON moved the second reading of the Mining Act Amendment Bill (No. 2). He explained that there were special reasons for passing this Bill, and some of the Otago members were anxious to see it brought forward. He intended referring the Bill to the Goldfields Committee. The motion was agreed to. CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE. The Civil Service Insurance Bill was further considered in Committee. Clause 4—"To whom the Act does not apply." Mr SEDDON moved that it should not apply to persons permanently employed in the Government Printing Office. Thi3 was agreed to. Clause 18—" Those who may be brought under the Act." Mr SEDDON moved to add that all women and girls employed in the Telegraph service may be brought under the provisions of the Act. This was also agreed to. Mr ALLEN moved that all officers, noncommissioned officers, and men of the Defence Force may be brought under the Bill, which was carried. The Bill was reported, read a third time, and passed.

PROTECTION OF INFANTS. Mr REEVES moved the second reading of the Infant Life Protection Bill. He said that facts were known to the police which made it necessary that this Bill should be brought down, and he therefore thought it desirable to introduce it. He was fully persuaded that both sides of the House should agree to pass it into law this year. He then explained the provisions of the Bill, and the motion was agreed to without discussion, its committal being set down for uext day. BILLS PASSED. Mr SEDDON moved the second reading of the Timber Floating Act Amendment Bill, which had already passed the Legislative Council. This agreed to the Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr SEDDON moved the second reading of the Trustees Acts Amendment Bill extending the power of investing trust funds. The motion was agreed to and the Bill was then read a third time and passed. The House rose at 10.30 p.m.