THE FEDERAL CONVENTION-

Press, Volume XLVIII, Issue 7804, 6 March 1891, Page 5

THE FEDERAL CONVENTION-

FUBTHEB IMPORTANT ADDRESSES. SPEECH OF CAPTAIN BUSSELL. [PKK PESSS ASSOCIATION.! Received March sth. 10M a.m. SYDNEY, March 5. Sir Qeorgo Grey, although benefited by his trip, is still very weak, and not able-to move about much, lie remained in attendance at the Convention all dajr yesterday. Lord Jersey, Governor of New South Wales, met Sir George Grey before the Conference began sitting, and had some conversation witu him. Sir S. Griffith's speech yesterday was thoroughly diplomatic and gave the members an iusighfc into a few of the difficulties that may lay in the path of Federation. The speeches are likely to touch more on general principles than on details, in consequence of Sir Henry Parkes , remark that it was intended to move that the Convention resolve itself into a Committee of the whole to consider the resolutions piecemeal. Received March sth, 11.50 a.m. SYDNEY, March 5. New Zealand is the only colony which has not seat a native-born delegate to the Federal Convention. New South Wales and South. Australia have sent four each. Out ot forty-live delegates present sixteen are natives of Australia. Sir John Bobertson has announced his intention of returning to political life in order to lead the opponents of federation. Keceived March sth, 2.30 p.m. SYDNEY, March 3. Mr J. Munro, Premier of Victoria, resulted the debate, lie said the most important question for consideration was that the Union should take place under the British Crown. There ehould be one Legislative Executive Government, and .the latter must be such as to enable it to carry out effectually ita own decisions and requirements. Hβ traversed the speech of Sir Samuel Griffiths, contending that the latter had raised difficulties or pussies without attempting to indicate solutions. It was, he said, the duty of the Convention to establish a stable form of working Government, and if they did not intend to do this they would probably formulate institutions somewhat like the Congress which existed in America before the present constitution was created. If the power of dealing with nnauce was equally divided between the Senate and the douse the result would be absolute inability to carry on the business. He took exception to the first parts of (he resolution, wnich, to his mind, were not clear enough. He considered the Customs duties should be uniform and that they sheuld have power and authority to impose such duties sub* ject to the revision of the Senate. Mr Munro continued that they oould not permit the minority to govern the majority. On the question of finance they must be just to the whole of the colonies, while electing a Government which would prove effectual.

Mr Playford (South Australia) regarded the resolutions as groundwork for their proceedings. It was quite an error to suppose free intercourse between the ooloniea should begin before the Federal Parliament arranged the tariff. They must continue as at present until the Federal Parliament was in a position to formulate a tariff. The greatest difficulty would be in adjusting finances between the Federal and the present local Governments. The method by which Canada solved the difficulty was already well known. If the Federal Government took over defence they would undoubtedly have to take over debt. South Australia would certainly expect the Federal Government to take over aov lost* and pay her for them. That the whole of the Customs' revenue could not be given back to each colony might be taken for granted. They might be able to give baok part. Referring to the form of Government proposed, he said there was no donbt the colonies would object to the Upper Chamber amending money Bills. If both the Houses were to have co-equal powers respecting money Bills then unmistakably a deadlock would result. One House must rule with money Bills. The Senate might be invested with power to reject a Bill, but nothing else. " Fancy," he said," two Houses having to pass a tariff. They would never be able to come to a conclusion. Take the estimates if you give the Senate the right to veto any particular line it may ohoose. See what a state of confusion would result." They could not graft responsible government on the American system, and give the same powers to the Senate as tney have at the present time. There were ways of strength* ening the Senate ■ and preventing the House riding rough shod over the Senate. In regard to the tariff if the Senate objected they could throw it out, but they could not otherwise interfere. With regard to the power of veto, which is supposed to be exercised by the Queen, they should do all in their power to abolish this right as far as possible, so long as any law was within the constitution. The veto should be abrogated. It was very little exercised now, and it was time it was done away with altogether. In the event of a law being passed which was objected to by the minority, then the measure should be re* ferred to a process of referendum, and if the constituencies decided in favor of the Bill it should not be subject to veto. In regard to the Executive, Victoria and New South Wales might have a majority and select the whole of the Government from their own representatives and other colonies would thus be unrepresented. Every colony should be represented. He was prepared to give way to the will of the majority whatever might be arrived at.

Sir T. Moilraith (Queensland) thought if the resolutions were carried Federation would be formed whether all colonies came in or not. Hβ regarded the commercial aspect as the chief thing. There was no question in his mind but that the resolutions implied freetrade among the colonies and protection against the world. He believed in protecting against the world. If the question were referred to the colonists, it would meet with universal support. In the event of freetrade, they must consider the position the colonies would be in, with no manufactures, while the fact of protection against the world would mean federation. He argued that the Senate represented the people quite as much as the House, and saw no reason why the sole power should be given to the Lower House. They must provide some method of dealing with the separation of parts of different colonies which might arise, Queensland for instance, and how they might be received into the federation. Received March 6th. 4.55 p.m., SYDNEY, March 5. Captain Bussell (New Zealand) said it had been supposed the Federal spirit did not exist in New Zealand. Owing to the fact that he had merely to fill in the time to the luncheon adjournment, he aid not intend to go fully into the broad subject opened by the resolutions. The great question was whether the Australian colonies would form themselves into aState, to which all the colonies unrepresented could eventually attach themselves. The great object in the Federal Constitution should be to frame a constitution that remote colonies could join in when they saw fit. Id had been said they should have entire power. That was a traism which had almost become a fetish. On every question the power rested with the majority, and that majority was often bare or narrow. Power should rest with the people. He ventured to affirm that the Senate might more properly represent the people of Australia than the House. They were speaking for a large territory now unoccupied, and if they said the sole power should rest with those representing the colonised portion ot Australia how could they have true federation. They must give the Senate full power to aooerioaUy represent tf>* wheU c£

Australia, Bear in mind, be cftid, U they adopted the present system oi responsible government-end he might nmirk by the way that ft large •#© tion of the New Zealand publle war* beginning to doabt the beneflte of responsible government—great publi* questions would be often subordinated U, personal popularity and w> who wa» to b« Premier, &o. Stonewalls would be set uj periodically, he might almoet eayperpeta ally, to prevent ■ the majority giving c* preeaion to their viewfl. Under respon* ■ible Government they had failed to fire* a true expression of the will of th< people. If they gave considerable powes to the Senate that atate of affairs would be diminished. So soon as Auetra-* lasia developed nationality, so aoon would it become a power dealing with foreign Powers. The system ©I turning out Governments and constant shuffling of cards would become b> great inconvenience. When they had ambote* eadore this would interfere with th# foreign policy of Australia, and it would therefore be necessary to introduce* son** check. The reason why he thonghl they should have a system of federation as loose aa possible was that all the mow outlying portions must be allowed - 1* work their own destiny. They in New Zealand praotioally had a foreign policy, having to deal with a native race Toe Convention must agree the] would require to be safeguarded in that respect before they committed themselves to the federal policy of Australia, and went in for New Guinea. The people Iα that island would require to be dealt with with greatest care. There was nothing in the resolution to show that any foreign race was intended to be dealt with. Again, in regard to what was known M the social upheaval, every colony must be left to deal with the matter in its owa way. In matters like that men would appeal to the municipalities hither than to the federation. Australia in the plentituie of its power should have such federation as wonta at* traot by its centripetal force all the remote parts. In time to come, when, .the islands of the South Seas become a power themselves, if we are the centre of powes these islands will be drawn to us. The question has yet to be resolved whether America will not divert the trade of the South Seas to herself. Therefore the soheme of federation should be so loose ai to prevent the atoms flying off to the United States, which will probably occur if Australian statesmen do not prevent it. New Zealand was not inimical to federation. The colonist* were unwilling to abrogate their internal powers of management, but there were all sort* ol laws whioh might be assimilated as thaw of the federation. With respect to trade, Australia was important to New Zealand, and it would be a great loss to lose he» trade, bnt it would equally be a great lose to Australia to be deprived of the products of New Zealand. Ho ventured v Bay New Zealand had other markets than Australia} but the latter, whether aha liked it or nob, would be forced to take a great part of his colony's vegetable pro* duce. New Zealand was anxious by every means to develop her trade. They recognised the marriage laws might be assimilated. Iv the matter of land defence, they would gain nothing, though in maritime .defence they might be benefited. It should bo remembered New Zealand possessed great coal supplies and (these supplies should be brought; into dose relation with Australia ia the remote future. Thej great harbors of New Zealand should not be isolated from Australia. With regard to the judiciary proposals of Sir H. Parkee, he was not prepared to give a definite opinion, but he would be willing to see laws aaeimllated as far aa possible. Aβ to the Executive, be confessed his mind was nebulous on that point. Undoubtedly he felt there were many anomalies in the present form. They must broadly eon* aider the lines on whioh the federal struoture was to be built, remembering that that portion of the continent at present unrepresented would at some fattm time have a great power. ■ «

At the coaoluaion of Captain Buaeeli \ speech, Sir H. Porkea read a cable meetag* from the Queen, wishing the Assembly sacces3 on this important occasion.

Beoeived March 6th, 9.30 p.m.

SYDNEY, March 6.

! The Hon. Alfred Deakin (Victoria) occupied the whole of the afternoon sitting. He.criticised at great length the vie we of previous speakers. Referring to Captala EoseeH'e remarks, he said that gentleman occupied a singular position. While assuring them that New Zealand's.sympathy with the movement waa so ardent* he (Captain Euesell) waa cardial to ftfu them that they must not a£ the present time expect anything from New ZeaJaacL Mr Beakin went on to say that any ooa» elusion to be arrived at must ba unanimous. They must seek to be honest) in principles to the different colonies And to indicate the attitude which our Parliaments are likely to take up. The Convention's proposal must meet with the sanotion of the people of Australasia, else all their efforts would be in vain. He complimented the President on the framing of the resolutions, which he contended embodied the exact principles at present lying at the root of the Federal Council Sill. The resolutions were not laid down Mi! to be placed on record, but merely v principle, It was indisputable that tin task of fixing the tariff was no ordisftfj one. The difficulty which was felt by «*eb oolony would be multiplied six fold when dealing with the whole of Australia. He declined to believe that the time could not definitely be known to elapse before the Federal Parliament could deal with a tariff. He could not be contect there* fore, to leave this question open as proposed. The colonies had acquired a| vested interest while millions of capital had been invested* He refused to believe that the Federal Parlia* ment would ignore the question of what might occur if protection were swept away. ■ It was their duty to obtain guarantees for the preservation of interests such as these. He must say at the oatast that the Cuetoms was a nine q%i& «o& ! & federal union tariff on our own ee&boerd must be settled, taking Australia as a whole, no matter what any individual colony might feel. It was, he considered* «aft»6 to attempt to gam this result at a single bound. It might perhaps be that in the first years they would only redaee a certain percentage, so that the people would be appealed to once or twice before the protective tariff was a wept sway. Thus they would give those who had in* vested their capital in. the cokraiea a chance of knowing what to expect. How* ever, he did not think the Federal Parliament would sweep away the protective tariff. He fondly hoped that the onion would be eternal. Why, he asked, should the consideration of a few years be denied when the object attained was bo lasting, Supposing this guarantee given, it did not necessarily imply that nothing should be done in the way ol free interchange in the meantime. Consequently the guarantee would not. prove an absolute bar, as with such a guarantee several of the colonies would see their way to interchange, and no one would more cordially snpporfc that than himself. [Regarding defence, he trusted that it would be placed on & email standing consistent with efficiency and as large a citizen soldiery as the means at its disposal would command. Concerning the executive, he thought that until the method of election had been definitely settled, the power to be conferred on the Senate most remain in some doubt. He would not be adverse to each colony determining the method to be followed in their own colonies. However, until the method is distinctly settled he could no 6 say with what authority the Senate should be entrusted. Personally he was inclined to invest it with large authority, as he had so desire to see the second Chamber » replica ot the Canadian one. The second Chamber would consist of men of ripe judgment and high character. The Senate should only have power to reject, not alter, the measures of the House. If they conferred an eternal veto on all acts sanctioned by the people and the other Chambers, would they be prepared to face the people and ascertain whether they represented them or notP Toe strengthening of the #,American Senate had seriously injured the popular Chamber, therefore he eaid let, eg define what degsee ©* ««tat we

were prepared to give, and then the matter -would assume a clearer aspect. Ibey might have a House based on the British Constitution, which would better meet with the confidence of the people. He did not wish to seethe Senate acting in any degree undex the compulsion of the House, nor the reverse. All taxation tinder federation must be of a uniform character. Objection had been taken to such a course because it might interfere with State rights. He emphatically denied that such was the case. Although one part of the colony might be benefited by Federal expenditure without the other part receiving a benefit. Would State rights be infringed ? Detidediy not. He challenged them to show how any expenditure would conflict with State rights. Let us know what State rights are, he said, then put them under a constitution where no Senate can touch them. With regard to the Judiciary, he thought certain questions of common law Mould still be sent to the Privy Council, although the greater proportion of the cases now sent might well be de*lt with in the colonies. He affirmed §ir S. Griffiths' remarks as to the wisdom of continuing responsible government in its present form, because it was much •afer to go on lines which we understood, and the leas departure made the better. To, endow two chamber s with equal authority would be to encourage deadlocks. In conclusion he referred to the Ah Toy case, M an instance of constitutional difficulty, which demanded the serious consideration •f the Convention. He read opinions of judges, one of whom went so far as to say that the rights we now enjoyed were not warranted by the state of law. He hoped ft firm Constitution, absolute and perfect to every particular, would be founded.