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CITY COUNCIL., Press, Volume XLIII, Issue 6338, 12 January 1886
MOHDAT, JAHUABT 11. The ordinary meeting of the Council was held at 7 p.m. Present—The Mayor (presiding), Cra. Vincent, Hooking, Manning, Tait, Grinsted, Gray, Andrews, Crooks, Prudhoe, Kiver. Apologies were receiTed from Cre. Lonisson and Bowman. . The receipts sices last meeting were etated to be aa follows : —General account, £646 lls 4d account, JBIO2 11s si-j cemetery account, j£6 7s; drainage rate account, jBIIO 153 7d. The credit balance was stated as being £1752 10a 9d. Accounts were ordered to be paid aa under.—General account, i>1079 9a sd; loan account, £725 Is 7d; tsuspense acCount, 423; s accounc, £7 143 4d. r - Tbefollowirig correspondence was read:— From the Secretary of the Eailway League, forwarding resolution frozn-the League with respect to the nomination by tne Council of a member to represent the City. Council on the League. The Maxob explained that the letter had been mislaid by him, or it would have been brought before the Council at ite last meeting. - : ■ - ■■-'■■'■'■'■■ r ; Cr. Vnrcmre pointed out tbat wHeB the League was first started it was composed of delegates from the various local bodies. Since then, it appeared, a change had been made. He (Cr. Vincent) had been one of the delegates, and Mr Eeeee, then a Councillor, was another. Since then, however, the policy of the League had been changed. Then the work of the League had been t£> get the West Coast Bailway made and the East Coast line opposed. Now it was proposed to take in Nelson, which was an alteration of the first programme, which he thought should set people thinking as to whether they could still work with the League. The Mαyob said, whilst quite agreeing with what Cr. Vincent had Eatd, and feeling that the League had changed its policy somewhat, he (the Mayor) felt that he ought to help in the work of the League. He hoped that Cr. Vincent would allow himself to be elected as the representative of the Council. —— ; Cr. Vincent had no objection, now that he had fully put the Council in possession of his feelings on the matter. ~-,■.': , On the motion of Cr. Kivsb,; Cγ,?Yi»r cent was elected as the delegate of the Council. Prom Messrs Shaw and Tidd, asking permission from the Council* to construe concrete public baths .on a site to be selected by the Council, andupon terms to be proposed by it. ' * The letter was referred to the Special Committee appointed to consider the question of the removal or otherwise of the Corporation baths. . ,: ' ; The following letters were read from Mr • F. Strouts on the subject of the new municipal offices:— ■ Cathedral square, Christohurch, } :i . \ : 1 January2nd,fßß6. Be proposed Municipal Buildings. To the Worshipful the Mayor and City - Councillors. '• . Gentlemen, —As the question of design for above purpose baa been made the subject of competition, it is only fair to com-. petitore that, until it has been proved beyond a doubt to the contrary, their, statements of having complied with the conditions of the competition should be received as* facts, especially with regard to the fulfilment of one of its essential conditions, viz., cost. By the reports in the " Ly ttelton Times" and Peess of December Bth, the Committee, through their Chairman, I presume, state that " there had been one design which the Committee preferred tc that selected, but when the quantities were taken out it wae found-that the cost would exceed the am&u&t at the disposal of the Council."',. ,'jr.• ■■■■'-■■ ■ -Y'"\- ■■■ : Ie i> an open eecret that the oesign referred to bore the motto" Fifty," of which (and this was also an open secret) I am the author. Aβ a writer in the Pbbss, in a not very complimentary letter, said, "every architect* work can be recognised at a glance in his own district, just; as a man's hand-writiny is usually known." And this remark applies particularly to the Council, as some of its members are intimately connected with the building trade, and axe, I am sure, quite able to put their fisgers on each Chriatchurch architect's worr. I do not for one moment queslira the right of the Council to accept which ever desiga they chose, but I would submit that it is hardly fair to put a deiign on one tide which they prefer because, as they state, the cost would exceed the amount at disposal. ■ ■ ■ In my two reports, whioh accompanied my design, I stated most emphatically that the cost would be within, the amount given, and gave data on which my estimate was based. The designs were of necessity but sketch plans and eections, and I mest unhesitatingly assert that no builder or any expert was in a position to get out an estimate on such imperfect data, and that the author alone, who had the whole thing in his mind, could only supply the material essentially necessary to make an estimate, and j that he alone was competent to do this, for no builder would give a tender on sketch plans and without a specification. Such being the case, I respectfully submit that I have had but scant jaetice, and that, at least, my assertion f-hould have been put to the test of public tender, aa I had fulfilled the conditions as to cost. . i I may state that I have not seen the de-< signs other than my own, being aw*y in Dunedin whilst they were on view; but this I have dose since my return in justice to my office and mj self. V * ; .*;..; , I have obtained a tender from a thoroughly responsible builder, who is prepared to execute the work for £4900, and it is reasonable to suppose that if put to public tender it would be done at my origi- I nal estimate. . | In view of the foregoing statements of j fact , , I cannot but feel considerable uncer- ! tainty as to the course to pursue in the ! other competition now advertised by Council, as from the action token by Com. mittee, I can but expect that any statement by a competitor as to cost will be accepted, as in present case, as quite unreliable. I have hesitated hitherto to bring this matter before you, being somewhat diffident. in preferring my own particular claim, bub as it has been pointed out by my friends that my professional reputation has been called in question, I feel bound, in the interests of my office, to thus tar justify myself, and at same tame beg to ask yon to ■ lay the question before the Committee and , aifc for a re-consideration of the matter j before finally accepting any tender, so that : at least I may hare the opportunity of ' proving my case. I may remark that had it been a condition a tenier should accompany the design, it could have been equally well obtained then Bβ since, bat it not being ■ a condition, I do not think it would have been fair to other competitors to send one in. May I request that the Council will give this letter the same publicity that they gave to the report on the designs sent is. i I have the honor to be, gentlemen, I Tout obedient servant, | Fbidk Stbouts, Architect, i Cathedral Square. Chrietchurch, -*r i. - - ," . JannaryjJnd, 1886. Ihe Worshipful the Mayor and City Councillors. Gentlemen,—Since forwarding my letter of even date it has come to my knowledge that the plan recommended fox acceptance by your Committee does not comply with the conditions in one essential point, viz., that mentioned in clause 2 of particulars issued to architects, which reada ac follows :— "The City Council of Christchurch ia prepared to receive competitive designs f6* a building to cover the ground where the preeent offices stand, and which is 66ft square." The plans referred to show a large area taken out at the north-west angle of the site, amounting in extent to one-four-teenth part of the whole, which cannot ia any way be said to be Uffc out (*a in other £££« f P? &*& i M *", awhitectnnl feature, but is plainly and eimply that much short of the area as laid down intiSe conditions. I am aware that this space has. been to a small extent filled in wnce designs were on view to the public. Thie. I think you will agree with mc, is a serious matter, as it not only does not comply with the conditions in an important particular, « *w bob-compliance very materially affects the coat of the structure tothl detriment of other competitors, who felt compelled to comply with such conditione I tag this to the notice of your Worship and Conned, as I cannot but Sunk siiehan important condition must have been twk g^y^lookedwhiletadjudicSgTn I have tte honor to be, gentlemen, i ours obedienlr servant, . _ Fbedk. Stbouts Cr. Vinckkt said he should like to say a few words with regard to what he had eaia when reporting to the Council what had
been saidiSherOeTOßtteer stated that " come oFlfeftCommltSee had felt .that the design referred to. Iras the begpuNow.he was made to say in both the pasentl*afc the "majority of; the Committee" were of this opinion, but the price prevented its acceptance,which o£ oourae was a mistake* _ Cγ. Skat felt flxat they had treated Mr %romfe with scant courtesy. Hie recollection of the words used by Cr. Vincent was simile to that which appeared in both papers. ■, Cr. Andbbws was of a different opinion to Cγ. Gray, as hettfought that what Cr. Vincent said was exactly what be had stated that night. Cr. Tait said he desired to point out that on Mr Stroota' own letter his plane would have been thrown out, as the estimate was .£4900, as the architect*B fees and clerk of works salary had to come out of the £5000; then the plan of Mr Strouts was out of it. ~- -. „;.■; ..:>■ ; Cγ. Hobsinq, as the member who moved the ,reeolution accepting the plan of Mr Seager, stated tnatthe Committee' had so accepted it on the internal arrangements being bo. much the best. -...j. '~ -. .'■ •„ Cr. PauDHOB said if they were to throw out Mr Stroute' plan on the ground mentioned by Cγ. Tait, so much the more so ought they to have thrown out the plat accepted as the architect's estimate was £4900. Cr. Manning was of opinion that the remark had been made by Cr. Vincent. Cγ. Gray pointed out that the remarke of Cr. Vincent appeared the same in both papers, .so that there mest have been some-thing-baarizg the construction. After some further discussion, it was agreed to forward a reply to Mr Strouts to the effect that the report in the papers, with regard to a certain deaign" being preferred to the accepted one was incorrect. From Messrs Carmiohael and Co., with reference to the report that the contract Tor the municipal buildings had been let to Messrs England and Martin, complain* ing of the treatment they, had received, and also stating that they considered public tendering, so far as the Council waß concerned, as a perfect farce. The matter was deferred for a time. ■ From Mr E. V. Hamilton, stating that a Committee of gentlemen had been formed to arrange for a complimentary benefit to Mr L. bearelle at the Theatre Boyal, on Monday, January 18th, and requesting the patronage and presence of the City Council on the occasion. Cr. Vincent said that there was a resolution on the books of the Counoil preventing them giving their patronage except m cases of charitable benefits. " '•■ Cβ. Hoßkin9 said that he took it as the duty of the Council to recognise the high talent of Mr Searelle. He did not suppose many of the Council would go [laughter] ; but still they ought to give their patronage to so marked a display of genius from one who had grown up amongst them. He would move—-"That the request be acceded to." ■ ■' ;* \ . The Matos said he had hoped that the Council would be able accede to this, but there was a epeoial resolution preventing the Council doing go, except for a charitable purpose. ,1^ Cγ. Gbinbtbd seconded the motion prs forma. '■■-'■ .-.- , ■ " •" ;: '; ?' i Cr. Antomws thought that to fall back on what had been done by other Councils was obsolete and childish. He was not going to the theatre, and was not going to vote for the resolution. , -7 The Matob said that he found that he could not put the resolution, aa it would be out of order, there being a resolution pi a contrary character. ." ' On the motion of Cr. Gbat the letter was received. '■* /, The report of the City Surveyor was read as follows:— '; 1. Maiton street 6in Artesian Well—The water of the second stratum was tapped in this well on the last day of the old year at a depth ef 185 ft from the surface, since which time the pipei have been aunk 2ft more, and the bottom cleaned out. The water rises 13ft above groucd level, and at the level required tot the water carts there is a fairly got d flow. The material pierced through consisted of three layers of clay-* one 9ft thick at top, one 4ft thick at 120 ft down, and one 18ft thick at bottom; all the rest was sand and shingle of various qualities. The work of * sinking occupied fifty-one working days, and the cost of the well was as follows:—• Labour of aiDkifig', JB9Q; coat of pipe, £47 1 coat of toole, JiZO; total cost, jei&7. 2. Water supply tor carte— 1 his question was referred back to mc atlast meeting to show cost. I have now ehown on plan afresh watering place, which I understand is Cr. Tait'd idea of where the water ought to be takes, and the cost of it would bo as follows: Excavation, £16; concrete walling to keep up foot of slope, JSIA ; stone pitching, 165 superficial yards, J857 15e; supply pipe, £5 ss; intake and delivery ends, £i ; contiogencies, MS i total cost, £108 Owing to the extra distance, the water would have to be carted 25 per cent, less work would be accomplished by the same number of horsee. The extra distance would ba twenty-two chaine In consequence of the carts having to be hauled up an incline of X in 17, 1 consider an extra horse would be required. 3. The flow of water into the tanks at the juncture of Montreal and Bt. Aeaph streets and Gloucester and Manchester street has been stopped. :On clause 1 of the report, Cr. Akdbbws thought they should have had the information before the Council as to how much muoh water was'thrown by the six-inch well, and whether a three or four inch pipe would not give as strong a flow. . Cr. Gbat said that he desired to compliment the Surveyor on the success of the : experiment. He should like to know what I was the cost estimated in the loan pro- ! prostJs. . Tee Matob said that the <s«3t in the loan proposals of these wells was estimated atJ322Oeach. j In reply to Cr. Hbsking, j The Citt Su&vjitob said that the threeinch «ell at the tramway station had coat £170 to the second stratum. i Cr. Tait also congratulated the Surveyor on the success of his experiment, and said as the one interested with regard to filling .the carts he would rather see a well than the watering place, of which he had tasked J the coat. , t "•■, .- ■■;., ■..'■. > 4 ; On Clause 2of the report, . ' Cr. ViNcaNT mentioned a plan .which had been brought under his notice of having rams of large power at the mill dam, which could be used for filling "the large tanks. The cost would be for lone ram and piping, £18; for au extra one, £15, and contingencies, maYing a total of £70. Then he went into the matter of having the tank in the Market place I fitted with a ram, and he found that to j fit the whole three tanks would cost £190. Now, they paid annually for labor for ! filling the tanks only the sum of £280, so that the first cost of the ram appliances for filling the tanks would be less than they nowpaid. If the Council felt so disposed, the Works Committee could call for tenders for the rams. Cγ. Gbikstbd spoke strongly in favor of the use of rams. - .-- . Cr. Psddhob mentioned that the Works Committee had had before it a long letter zrom an amateur engineer who stated that he was prepared to bring forward machinery to bink the six-inch wells at a rate of ten feet per hour. Cr. Gbat, on dame 8 being read, called attention to the waste of water at the comer of Itarham and Salisbury streete, and Cr. Manning also mentioned the same thing in Barbadoes street. The report, as a .whole, was then adopted. The reports of the Inspectors of Nuia« ancee were read and approved. The quarterly report of the Superintendent of ths Fire Brigade was read. It stated that the Brigade bad responded to twenty-nine fire alarms, eituate in the city, liinwood, Sydenham, Spreydon, Fendalton, Opawa, Heathcote and Domain. Cr. Andrews called attention to the unsatisfactory state of the alarms given by the electrical indicators, which resulted in annoyance to the Brigade. Cr. Gsat said he intended to bring forward a resolution on the matter later on. The combined Committees reported si under: —" Your Committee begs to report that ten tenders were received for the erection of the municipal offices, and recommends that the tender of Messrs England and Martin, £4623, ba Accepted." Iα connection with, this report the letter of Carmichael and Co. was considered.
•" Cγ. Tait asked whether this waa thr--j>' lowest tender received. The Matob said that it wma not. Cγ. Taii wished to know what wae the reason why the lowest tender waa not accepted. Cγ. Vincbnt said that before the information waa given as to the reason which - had induced the Committee to accept this tender they ought to go into Committee. Cγ. Tait said that he thought if the ratepayers oould be caved £63 they should do so. For this reason he felt that the Committee ought to give the Council the reasons which had induoed them to accept the tender they had done. Cr. Tait moved—" That the Council go into Committee." ■ Cr. Geihbtkd seconded the motion. Cr. (Sbat protested againat this They had had nothing straight in connection with this matter from the commencement:: The whole affair had been crooked from the beginning, and the question of the municipal buildinge now stank in the noetrileof the citizens. The citizens had a right to know everything about the matter, and they had had quite enough of hole and corner meetings with regard to this matter. . ■ . Cr. Hoßki»q hoped that the Council Tould not go into Committee, but that the Chairman of the Works Committee should put the whole matter before the Council. The combined Committees had no wish to hide anything. They had nothing to conceal at all. Cr. Tait had only moved the motion he had at the request of the Chairman of the Works Committee. Cx.Phddhoh said that when the architect came to the sample of bricks sent in by Meesrs Carmichael and Son, he at onoe said that he would Hot have thai sample of bricks in the building. Thus they had to fall back on the next tender, thgt of Messrs England and Martin. Thie waa the only reason the Committee had. The motion for going into Committee was then withdrawn. Cγ. Andrews pointed out that tie combined Committee whioh had brought up the report had not been instructed by the Council to deal with the matter. A special Committee had been appointed, but they had not been called together, but the combined Committee had dealt with it. Now, as regarded Messrs Carmiohael's letter aad the action of the Committee. The Committee had said t hit it waa on account of the bricks. Bat what was the fact P Why that the bricks sample supplied by England and Martin, and by Carmiohael and Co., wore from* the samd firm, the same mould, the came kiln. Tet the Committee wished to give the former £63 more than the latter, and pass a severe oeaeure on a respectable firm who had done so muoh good work here. He should protest against the report. The Matob said he desired the point, as to the Committee to whom the matter waa referred, to be cleared up. ■ . Cγ. Gbat submitted that the objection raised by Cr. Andrews put the whole matter out of Court. He desired to move as an amendment — " That the acceptance of the tender for the municipal buildings be remitted to the special Committee appointed for the purpose of considering and supervising the work." Cr. Giay then went on to assert that tender of Messrs Cannichael and Son had not bean accepted, because they had quarrelled with the Surveyor on the matter of the Park bridge, which ought to have been built askew instead of straight. Cγ. Pbtjdhob suggested that if the report of the Committee wae .rejected that the Council should take the tendeis and accept one for itself.; [Hear, hear.] Why need .they remit the matter to e> Committee f Cγ* Hosking moved the adjournment of the Council to jcomment upon the matter. The tenders were brought before the Committee, and of the samples submitted to the Committee those of Cannichael and Son was considered most uneatiafaotory. Besides this, the firm had in a former contract given the Works Committee a great deal of trouble, and ie was felfr the* aeepito the JE63 more which England / Martin's contract amounted to, it would be . a good thing for the city that they ehoujd accept it. The Matob deprecated the attributing of motives which had formed the greater put of the speech of Cr. Andrews. He nad been at the Committee meeting when the tenders were opened* and he was bound to cay that he never saw a more business-like or straightforward'meeting than that.' Aβ they had a condition as to material, they were bound to carry it out, or the condition meant nothing. Cr. Andbbw-8 reiterated hie statement that the job was cut and dried for England and Martin, and that three bricks were selected by the architect to enable England and Martin to get the work. .The Matob pointed out that this was mere hearsay. If the architect had done what was said, then he was not worthy of' their confidence. Bat, as he had said, they could not take mere hearsay evidence on ■ so important a matter. ■ Cr. Tait moved—-"That the Council now accept the lowest tender for the ereo- . tion of the Council offioee." Cr. Ahdbewb seconded this amendment. That of Cr. Gray not being Becanded. : Cγ. Vinctst explained the action of the Committee similarly -to the explanation given by Cr.Prudhce as to the sample of bricks. The amendment was put and loat by 7 to 3. The motion for the adoption of tits report was then pat and carried by 7 to 3. The following report of the Reserves Committed was read s— Tour Committee bar considered the offer of land adjoining Beserve No. 107 and the cemetery submitted by Mr W. Attwood t» the Council, and referred! by the Council to your Committee. Taking into consideration its situation and the benefit it will ultimately be to the Council for enlarging the reserves and cemetery, your Committee recommend the Council to accept the offer, subject to the closing cf the dividing and adj ining roads t-y Mr Attwood. ' Cr HosKnara moved the adoption cf the report. Cr. Petjdhoh seconded the motion, which was agreed to. " ' Cr Hosking moved—" That the question of payment for the land be referred to the Finance Committee, with power to act." Cr. KiTiß seconded the motion, which was oatried* Cr. Gbat asked whether the water carte could not be used later on Saturday after* noons than at present. Cr. VrarcxßT pointed out that the men began to work at 7 a.m. and left off at 4 'pan." ■ ■■ ■ ,; ' ■ ■ . Ultimately the matter was referred to the Worka Committee. ... Cr. Gbat asked when.the asphaHafigof the Armagh street and Worcester street bridges would be done. ; • Or. Vihcsht said the Armagh street bridge would be put in hand at once. The Worcester street bridge would have to wait a while for the ground to settle. Cr. A sdmws asked whether the Works Committee did not consider that the carrying on of the work of concrete kerbing during the summer was a mistake, as they would have no work for the winter. Cr. VrwcßHT explained that in tfeewinterthe frost destroyed the work. Hemight Bay that the Committee were only doing the work that was necessary. , ■' Cr. Ahbbiwb asked who waa responsible for the large stones on the streets of the ctoP The Matob said that the Surveyor would be instructed to look into the matter* Cγ. Hosking's motion respecting the posts in the Park was postponed till nest The Pbws was appointed as the official newspaper of the Council for the year 1886. Cr. VracßHT said that the' Surveyor had brought before the Works Committee a plan for making a 4in well, and u*ing the pipes which caiae out at the same time* with the Gin pipes. The Committee haff given'the Surveyor the require permiesioS to carry out the plan. The Matob brought under the notice of the Council the nuisance caused "by the Dogßefuge. If the Council did not take some nteps in the matter for the removal of the Dog Befuge they would have an information laid against them. ' ■ The matter brought forward by the Mayor was referred to the Works Committee. 1 -; : . Cr. Gbay moved—««Thatthe matter of B» Bjstem of electrical fire alarms be referred
-to the Fire Brigade Committee Jar the means to be adopted for the *in_M y«tev«_n_nt U-_i»of." / }J ~ \ ." ;: * £t&3_fo*_n-. s seconded the motion prf_ Jama, and asked that the motion Bhouli|_ be withdrawn until the result of experii-Tn-nfH now in course of trial waa known. ', Ultimately, after some further discas-3 afcst, the motion was carried. i The Council granted the annual cab, lioenses as recommended by the By-Law Committee. Several others were continued, and others cautioned and a permit only granted. Two licenses were refused by the 7 *"-."'.' _ : The report of the; Committee was ape psoy*d7 ■"' .The Matob said there had been some comment ssto Jsisisg funds for sufferers from the fees in ffie North Island... He hadfeltinaquonda-yae to what method should be adopted to raise moSey, because Canterbury had itself suffered from fire. He bad, however, called a ineeting of gentlemen to meet him on _he'~next afternoon at 3 p.m. to consider what steps should be taken. He might'say that be had received a letter from the Dramatic Class of tha Working Men's Club, offering j their services to get np a s.-ries of enter- j tainments in aid of the fond to be raised for the sufferers by the fire. In reply to Cr. Andrews, 7 The Matoe said the Committee had deaided to appoint the Aseistant-Suiveyor as; Clerk of the Works on the new building' for the Council. . , • ".. Cr..TA-T protested against this appointment. It was not fair to the architect that " such a thing should be done. The Mayo__ said there was no resolution before the Council. The matter might be dbmssed at their next meeting. ' The meeting then adjourned.
CITY COUNCIL., Press, Volume XLIII, Issue 6338, 12 January 1886
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