EVENING SITTING.

Press, Volume XL, Issue 5858, 23 June 1884, Page 2

EVENING SITTING.

The House reassembled at 7.30. Mr Holmks continued thu debate Under the Inscribed Stock Act a fi um nf £250,000 was raised. According to Q» Act that sum could only be raised W ord*r of the Governor in Council. He h>l been informed that such an order did w * exist when tha money was raised. The in. tention of the Act was that the amount should ba raised in small sums as low as JES, whereas it had been raised in a lump, cum. He further charged the Government with having dealt with the public monies, in a manner which alone Could be doneunder authority of Parliament. That was a moat dangerous precedent, and one which ought to be strongly reprobated The Treasurer took upon himself fk lecture the colony on its eitravaganee. and yet it was shown that he hadpuWlj,"* the colony in the short period of two yewg. in anexoesa of debt amounting to no lees a sum than .£IOO,OOO. Alluding to tke cause of the present depression h» said that the Treasurer had shows his utter ignorance of the causes which ha had attributed it to, namely, the Jowpw* of grain and wool, whereas it arose from the fact that tho land had been sold oa deferred payments at such exorbitant fcrieea. that the buyers could not promptjvpa»yj 4 amount. The price of money waa a]go a> great hindrance to the genera! prosperity, Money for improvements was borrowed a£ 8, 9, and 10 per cent. Had the Goranment been true to its trust, it would hareborrowed capital at 4 and lent it out again, to the bono. Fido settler at say 6 per cent. The imports exceeded the exports byiom* millions of money. This state of thinge was all very well for a country like England, which derived its income from every quarter of the globe, in the ebape of interest on borrowed money. Here, in NewZealand, we had no such source ojf income. Mr Shbphabd leviewed the question of taxation, and concluded that the statement was not quite bo unfortunate as some o£ the previous speakers would hare thorn be* lieve. ■' ■ ~

In reply to MrMoNTaoanunr, who stated that an impression was abroad that certain, gentlemen if defeated, or who feared to stand an election content, would bo cillea to the Upper Hoase, Bβ to when the eleotion would take place.

The Hon. Major Atkinson said that th» Government wanted to be gnided by the opinion of the House, aa they recognised they were in a minority, and aa regards., the remainder of the question he would be ' in a better position to answer it aftor consulting with his colleagues, which would be done at once and an answer given beforethey separated. lie went on to cay that he would now reply to the remarks made by the speakers generally. He contended that Mr Holmes' political economy that an excess of imports over exports was entirely wrong. His contention was that an excess of imports over exports was agoo&tipv. and he saw with apprehension that the latter were getting near the former. It was a sign of a large amount flowing intothe colony for investment, and nothing would give him greater pleasure than vy . , come down next year and tell them the .difference was much greater than it now wa3. They were told that they started laet year with a credit balance of £187,000* and certaim adverse conclusions were drawn -" therefrom. They were told that a Deficiency Bill had been issued amounting tO--.£390,000, whereas it was only £318,000. Again, they paid the deficit of the Treasury Bills, so that by subtracting the one from the other, it left £245,000, and on furfhef comparing the figures it would bejfound that his statement was that the deficit was only -£152,000, as he stated the mistake' arose from the fact that the figures had been placed on the wrong side of the account. Then, again, they had paid th» outstanding liabilities of last year out of this year's revenue. In that way they, had paid £176,000. That fact had not been taken into account or the figures pro* duced by Mr Holmes. By reference to the advance account it would be found thai last year the account stood at £79,000, and this year it was only £42,000. So that if • he wanted to cook the deficiency he might - have taken credit for the balance and »-. duced the deficit accordingly. The feat' that they had not done so ought to gnr* them confidence in the financial honerty of the Government. After arguing the point further, he went on to say that the House would thus perceive he h»d£7S»»ow of finance with the country wae'iheexew* difference from that of the indfridu&L *»• latter looked first to their income «*«" shaped his expenditure accordingly. ,*™ Crown did exactly the oppoeite. 1 hey estimated their expenditure first, and tnett they considered as to the beet mode tot . raising it. The expenditure hod to-M determined first, and the revenue had ftim £187,000 short of the estimate. To gW coloring to this imputation certain «caw« , revenue which he enumerated had been waveniently left out of the calculation; wh® they told the colony that there w»a *> "J""* to tae bad they should aleo tell it that twg put £250,000 into the sinking tana, uaa they not paid that debt they e^??* , "", been a very considerable earn to we gwa* The particular of all their H«tal*s"s been laid on the table, and heeo™"* understand what was want?d W |«*JE2 were told that a list of all their lijuwW" was wanted. They might h*ve *»«■*£ spend a considerable amount, Trbtcn-w" spent on railway stock, iron, «<• , But if they had dono so, i would have at a bad seaso.i ol U» TO I stopped the works of the wf&J*s thereby brought about a gre* f ££»£ ' mfcerj and distress, which *» tt»g» been averted. It was one of *•££ fortunes of Government that it *£*. .-. to run the risk of a patty ceaw« m » of this kind, or else fl»»«{ - eerious dieaster to a large ", public. He denied that tho *%£*£s£ had increased as had beea.eteej £ the kst few year., and in ««£££ , tuat contention he quoted financial statements of thow jeaw. - ever there has been aa «f*"*£;s always careful to pomt it out. - true that the Government had \ department *1 expenditure sni ee . into office. The faefc was they J-Jgffli .. reduced it saw h« way to «J* . revenue of the year provide > They had year «**££ 3 ./ departmental expenditure, ,s#■ v a Committee to it , reply wae-No; let * He had taken the **&** ffSJj- t*** now prosecuting thejrorfc' ; they cWd not make - , sation was a work of we re, paf ,'/( the inscribed pcs <*& r:; ticulariy epeaking, <*£ SSfisd, w *** :;i He denied ~■ %| Wen alleged, * W^^s^,^M nmttera. Every. fl^?2M^«ce of S' M taken by the Council ana "t refe» . 'A liw officers. He of interart were gjjjf On flit **~M the investment *»«»«»•. ■-,»

Ataxeetion arose from causes like this, j i Where were unwise men in all classed, £* tie bulk of the people knew Teiy ZfM low to take care of themselves id their own interests. He denied that a Treasurer would have the great diffi- ! if sneh a change as tegarae the Treawwy PabHc Works Department would any djp--olfcy be experienced. EepresentatfonaluMl teen made that they had umduly retarded ecfcßc works. He had shown that heHwae Villager of incurring the ceniure of ParItoent for carrying them on too fast. jKr G»ow»Gmet said that the Trea--nrer had told them that he.could hare •ade up the accounts to look better far jjimiieH. Accounts so flexible were ,'nn--aorthy of credence, and he would therefore act look at their details. He ascribed the j«nrerei<m to the fact that the Government ijtered too small areas of land, and the emnseSKon thereby became co great that induced to give larger sums' for ♦fceir holtoga than their means warranted. Trfthat «ay to»es were broken up, and ewetDereoa* 1 distress was brought about. might laugh as he laughed tan be «aid that these men should clear ]5~He was glad to hear the Treasurer J*L that he had said so. He was mowtoli by the Treasurer that the depuin question had said they could not ,- -promote agriculture of any kind, and that He reply was to them in that cage we must all clear out. It was a significant fact that the gentlemen who drew good salaries out «f the public funds were not in the habit of clearing out The .taxes were uniaicly imposed. The parties "who had to frmr the taxes were not properly, represented. /They had to face ainominated Upper House, and as long as such flagrant jbaaeßexisiedihera was no hope •£ the configonof thibgs being ameliorated. He asked ffcJßm, now that they were about to go back to their constituents, .to tell them, of the -wrong under which they had labored, and tfcai they had in Tain endeavored to extract from the Government information as to .how the lands were held, so that they Blight know the evils by which, they were managed. Let these etern truths he spoken to the eonetitutenta. Ministers left their benches because they were afraid to sit and listen to these truths. If these things be rightly considered, then the great Liberal party would return from the country triumphant, and in that case a aew era of prosperity would dawn on New Zealand. Mr Tubnbull said that of three millions raised from wool, not more than .£500,000 -was spent in the colony in the production el wooL. Eleven million acres of laud was alienated. Could they wonder at the depression when three-fourths of the product of the land was drained out of the colony. Cannot some steps be taken to ccc that this land be compelled to be parted - with for the benefit of the colony. He did not think that any Government could face the proposal to get the Government to borrow money at four per cent., and lend it out at five. They would have all the banking and other interests against them. Until the evil he referred to could be overcome there was no . hope for the country. That was what was eating up their vital energies. These were ■- the questions with which they should go to the country. The question was whether they were to allow this vast area of land to senuin practically unproductive for the colony or not. That was the queetion with ■which they sneuld go the country. That - was of more importance than the question m to whether this Government or the <£her one should be in office. He saw no feope for improvement until time had wrought its change in the general state of affairs. It distressed him to see how carelessly and unfeelingly the whole subject was treated. What he proposed as a remedy, but despaired of seeing, was an annual Parliament. He moved to report progress, which was put and carried. The House rose at 12.10 a.m. till Monday at 11 o'clock.