PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Press, Volume XXIII, Issue 3057, 9 June 1875, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, Jtjne 8. The Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m. PETITION. Mr ANDREWS presented a petition from ratepayers in Christchurch praying that no further steps should be taken in the Education Ordinance that session. The number of signatures was over 300, and by next sitting it might be expected to receive double that number. CASE OP JOHN GLYNAN. Mr Pilliet brought up the report of the select committee on the case of John Glynan, which was read. Mr Pilliet then moved that the report and evidence be printed, but, after some discussion, said that he would give notice of it. RAILWAY TIME-TABLE. Mr Walker said he wished to bring under the notice of the Secretary of Public Works the unnecessarily early hour at which passengers had to leave Ashburton and RangiI tata under the present time-table. At the Rakaia he might say there was a quarter of an hour's detention, and another at Dansandel for twenty minutes. He trusted the Secretary for Public Works would see that by the present time-table serious inconvenience resulted to the Southern passengers. The inconvenience he thought resulted from the numerous stoppages. The Secbetaby fob Public Wobks said that he might say that the time-table was framed at the request of the Southern resideuts; however, now that the bon gentleman had brought the matter under his notice he would look into it OKAIN'S BAY SADDLE. Mr Pilliet asked the Government what steps have been taken to secure the best line of road from Okain's Bay Saddle to Duvauchelle's Bay. The Secbetary fob Public Wobks said that the line of road had not been surveyed. He might say that the land over which it was to pass was the property of Mr Piper, who declined to give it up, and until some means were taken by the Council to compulsorily take over the land nothing could be done. OKAIN'S BAY WHABF. Mr Pilliet asked what the Government intend doing with reference to the Okain's Bay wharf. The Secbetaby fob Public Works said that that he understood something was done by the late Government in the matter, but beyond finding that an off>r had been made by some person who was to take payment in land, the present Government did not know anything about it, but the matter would be looked into during the recess. : THE PBOVINCIAL SOLICITOBSHIP. Sir Cracroft Wilson — Sir, I rise to inform the Council that Francis James Garrick, Esquire, has been appointed Provincial Solicitor, and that his tenure of office will be the same as that of the present Executive. FENCING OF BESERVES. Mr Higgins moved that the House go into committee to consider the following resolution—" That his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to have placed on the supplementary estimates a sufficient snm of money to provide for the fencing of reserves." The motion was agreed to. In committee, the amount of £250 was insertfd in lieu of the words "a sufficient sum," and the resolution, as amended, was agreed to on the voices. PROTECTIFE WOBKS AT KAIAPOI. Mr Joynt moved that the House go into committee to consider the following resolution—" That his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to place on the supplementary estimates a sum not exceeding £500, as a further grant in aid for the purpose of constructing protective works on the north and south banks of the river Waimakariri, within the Borough of Kaiapoi. Mr I. Wilson seconded the motion. The Secbetary for Public Works thought the hon member for Kaiapoi had made ont a good case, and the Government would not oppose the motion. The motion was agreed to, and the House went into committee. In committee the motion was moved by Mr Joynt. Mr PARKER inquired whether the amount would come out of the Municipal Grant to Kaiapoi ? Mr Joynt—Oh, certainly not. [Laughter.] After some discussion the motion was agreed to, reported to the House, and adopted. DBAINAGE OF CHRISTCHURCH AND SUBURBS. Mr J. T. Fisher moved—"That in the opinion of this Council it is expedient that measures should be taken for the purpose of carrying out an efficient system of drainage for Christehnrch and the suburbs, and that his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to place upon the supplementary estimates.a sum of money not exceeding £20,000 as a grant in aid ; that it is expedient a Board of Drainage Commissioners be appointed for the effective carrying out of the works required, and that his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to endeavor to get a Bill passed through the General Assembly at its next session, such Bill to give powers to the Commissioners to levy rates and borrow money on the security of the rates to be raised in the district to be created." In moving this resolution he might say that there was a very general expression of opinion in the House on a previous evening that the drainage of Christchurch and suburbs should receive the consideration of the House. He thought as there was a large population in the city and suburbs, who were suffering from want of drainage, that the Council should give some attention to it. The House might think it presumptuous on his part to move such a resolution as this, but he would point out that time was getting short, and it was absolutely necessary that something should be done. Aβ hon members were aware, the Road Boards had no power to borrow money; hence, it was necessary that a Board such as the one he referred to, should be established. The necessity for the carrying out the work was so appaient to every one, that he trusted the House would consent to go into committee upon this resolution. The Provincial Secretary said that, no doubt the question brought before the Council was one of very great importance, the more so as the state of the drainage, more especially the sanitary drainage of the city and suburbs, was exceedingly bad. The Government approved of the principle of the resolution, but it seemed to him that the whole machinery of the supervision of sanitary drainage required amending, viz., that under the Public Health Act 1872, which had been shown to be thoroughly unworkable. It seemed to him that they in Canterbury had arrived at this conclusion, that nothing could be done in the matter of sanitary drainage until the Health Act had been amended. Under clause 6 the word " Local Board" was interpreted, and in clause 7 a Central Board was appointed, ucder which these local Boards were to work. The fault wan that the Act created such a diversity of power as almost to be rendered null and void. Power was vested in the hands of a dozen different local bodies having a diversity of interest. For instance, around Christchurch the local Boards of Health were, the Heathcote Road Board, the Spreydon, the Biccarton, and the Avon, and neither one of these had ever shown any disposition to work together or act in concert. The real fact was that some central power should be created, which would take the whole matter of drainage into its own hands. He thought therefore that the clause in the motion for the appointment of a Board of Drainage Commissioners was a good one. The request to bis Honor the Superintendent to get a Bill passed was also a good one, but there was one part—that of voting £20,000—which the Government could not agree to. In the first place the Government had not the money to spare ; secondly, the Bum of £20,000 mast be looked upon as a mere guess; and thirdly, the Government looked upon it that the rating power might be so exercised as to enable the work ' to be done. In saying this, however, the I Government did not wish to oppose the resolution, simply leaving out the question of the money grant, which, the Government

could not agree to. Aβ a whole, with this exception, the Government were prepared heartily to support the proposition, because there was now ample proof in the state of the suburbs, more particularly in the southeastern portion, that it was time to do away with the present state of divided authority. He would move as an amendment that all the words after "suburbs" to the word "aid" be struck out. Mr W. B. TosswiLL thought the hon mem her for the Heathcote (Mr Fisher) ought to be very grateful to the hon Provincial Secretary for his kindness in agreeiug to his resolution, except so far as giving him the money to effect it. This was the third time that an attempt had been made to get the Government to do something for Christcburch, but though on all sides of the House, and from the Government benches, there was an expression of opiniou that something should be done, the Government resolutely set their face against it. Well, let the Government come down and propose what they were willing to do for Ohristchurch ; let them bring down a plan for this purpose, and let the House debate it out. [Hear, hear.] Mr Parker suggested that it would be better to vote a sum of money to send home for some one to come out and make a detailed and complete plan of drainage, which could be carried out next session. Mr {Montgomery thought it would be possible to appoint a Board of Drainage Commissioner, with power to levy rates, and proceed to carry out this very desirable work. At present every day was making things worse, and the province was getting a bad name. He trusted that the Government would see their way olear to pat a moderate sum on the estimates for the purpose of a drainage commission being appointed, and going on with the work. fllr Bbown saic , that the Provincial Secretary was strangely ignorant of the feeling of the Assembly if he thought that the Superintendent of Canterbury would be able to pass a Bill bringing the suburbs of Christchurch and the municipality of Christchurch, under a separate Board of Commissioners. Several members had tried to get a Drainage Act through the Assembly, but no solid benefit accrued from it, because it was not likely that the Assembly would allow of a special power being created to override the appointment of the Board throughout the colony. He felt that it would be losing their time by going to the Assembly for a Drainage Act, because in the Public Health Act there was ample provision for carrying out all that was necessary for the preservation of the public health if they only had funds. The only reason which had kept the Central and Local Boards of Health from carrying out the drainage of the city and euburbe, was want of money, and he (Mr Brown) would be prepared to vote an endowment to enable them to carry out their | work. Sickness, disease, and death were amongst them, and he contended that the large powers given in the Public Health Act were quite sufficient to avert these if the necessary funds were at their disposal. In support of this he would read clause 30, as follows :—" The local Board of Health shall cause to be drained cleansed covered or filled up all ponds pools open ditches sewers drains and places containing or used for the collection of any drainage filth water matter or thing of an offensive nature or likely to be prejudicial to health. And they shall cause written notice to be given to the person causing any such nuisance or to the owner or occupier of any premises whereon the same exists requiring him within a time to be specified in such notice to drain cleanse cover or fill up any such pond pool ditch sewer drain or place or to oonstruct a proper sewer or drain for the discharge thereof as the case may require," He hoped the hon member for Heathcote would allow of the motion being so amended as that the Central Board of Health should be endowed, and that they should press on the Local Boards to carry out;the work as laid down in the Act. Mr Wynn Williams thought it waa only fair that every municipality should have a piece of land belonging to them for the exigencies of future years, and thus get rid of the ever-recurring appeal for money. He would vote for the resolution as a simple expression of opinion that something was needed to be done, not with the hope that anything practical would come of it, at any rate this session. Mr Joynt would support the resolution, not on the same grounds as the last hon member who had spoken, but as a reality; and he believed further th&n this, that they would get the £20,000. It seemed to him that it was very easy to put £20,000 on the estimates as a grant in aid, and then the Council might, under the Canterbury Rivers Act, proclaim a drainage district. Mr Bbowk. thought that the hon member was under a mistake, as this Act was for the conservation of rivers. Mr Joynt contended that the Act applied to all systems of drainage aa well as to the conservation of rivers. He trusted that the House would go into committee, and then, with the striking out of a few words at the end of the motion, and inserting others giving'power to create a Board of Conservators, the matter would be arranged. He trusted the Government would accede to the motion for going into committee, and then he thought they would be able to see their way, if not to get the £20,000, at least sufficient to start the Board with a good sum of money to work with. Mr J. N. TosswiLL was glad to see that the hon member for Heathcote had brought this matter before the House, as it was a most important one. At the same time he must say that he did not agree with the hon member for Kaiapoi when he said that a Board of Conservators should be appointed for Chrietchurch and snburbs, firstly, because 1 hristchurch and suburbs were already included in a district, and could not be again created a district within a district; secondly, the conservators were appointed to look after rivers, and not to take cognizance of drainage, except as regarded sewers leading to the rivers under their control. Hβ should support the resolution, though he should have liked to have seen it in a different form. As regarded the Board of Health, he did not think the City Council would like to have a body over them spending money in the city. Mr Andrews hoped the House wonld go into committee on the subject of the resolution of the hon member for Heathcote. Aβ regarded the objection of the hon member for Lincoln that the City Council would object to have a power over the spending money and executing works within their bounds; he thought that might be got over by making the Board of Commissioners elective by the City Council and the Road Boards of the suburban districts. This would get over the difficulty, and the two bodies would, he thought, work harmoniously together. The first thing was to put a sum of money, at the disposal of the proposed Board, and he thought the Government should say really what they intended to do in the matter. [Hear, hear.] If this matter had been brought before the House some years back, instead of the little drain they now had, they would have had a system of drainage. He would be sorry to see the matter handed over to the Central Board of Health, because that body had not attempted to carry out the work in hand by coming to the House for money. Hence it was necessary now that the Council should step in, and take some practical etepi to do what was allowed on all hands to be a most necessary work. Mr Jebson thought it would be found necessary to have such a system of drainage as would allow a district on the outside extreme to come right through to the further opposite extreme. If this were not done by the agreement of the people that an Act should come into force and a Local Board appointed, no appreciable effect, would be obtained. No piecemeal system would do ; as Cbristcburch might drain some part of the city to the detriment of some other district, and so with regard to the suburbs. Therefore it was necessary that united action should be taken. If the people declared it to be their wish to do thie, then he thought the Council should meet the people and help them to carry out a well considered system of drainage, not where the drainage came back into the drain, bat was discharged not t© be seen or heard of more.

Sir Cuacuoft Wilson said, that ufitead of going fairly into the scheme, the system had been to blame th<j Government aud s that they were opposed to Christchurch Now this waa not the fact. The Govern* rrnnt were not opposed to Christchurch or any part of Canterbury ; but they were 'n i prepared to put their bauds to a work whioK they could not see the possibility of currvin ' out. To carry ont the system of draw! it would cost £60,000 or £60,000 TV Government said this, that if the drainaee «? Christchurch ha 3to be carried out th drainage of the suburbs also must be don* and they said this, that any scheme in which the Government had a hand rnu<£ include the drainage of the suburbs TrW hear.] He did not think that they would hi able to settle the matter on a proper baaio fere, because there was so much diversity of opinion and a diversity of interest fighting against each other, that it was im possible. im ' Mr F'SHER in reply, said that he would not agree to any delay ; to do so meant two winters and two summers of pestilence and fever. He asked them, on behalf o f •><) 000 people who had always rated themselves heavily for every purpose, to pass this resoln tion. When m committee he would ask leave to divide the resolution in two parts The motion for going iuto committee was agreed to. *" In committee, a*Z lISI IS Z E \ m ? yed thatthe resolution be divided, the first part ending at the word fllQu The motion was agreed to, and the resohi tion divided. ««mThe Secretary for Public Works said that he trusted the hon gentleman would withdraw the portion of his resolution referring to the.moneyjgrant, as tbe Government could not see their way clear to accede to it The Government he might say had under their consideration the question of appor tioning pastoral land for the use of munioipalities. They were, however, hardly propared with details now, but he might tell the House that by next session the Government would be prepared to come down with a scheme to relieve Christchurch, as well as other municipalities, of the burdens which now pressed upon them. He therefore hoped the hon member for Heathcote would withdraw his motion for the present. The Provincial Secretary moved the omission of all the words after the words "suburbs "to the word "aid." He might say that they knew not where the money waeto come from. They had been in office now some five weeks, and they were quite willing to allocate the revenue if the gentle* ~ men opposite could show them where the money was to come from. He, as treasurer of the province, said that there waa no revenue to allocate for this, and that he did not know where the £20000 vras to come from. Therefore he asked that the amount should not be asked for this session, but that next session they might be prepared to give the sum for a Board of Drainage Commissioners. He hoped that the hon member for Heathcote would be satisfied with what the Government had given him and not oppose the Government, as it was " not possible, as he had said, tb find the money. Aβ regarded the Act under which the Central Board was constituted, he reiterated the statement that it was unworkable. He, as a member of the Government, would be very grateful to any member who would get up and show him where the £20,0C0 could be got from, and he would say that they would be quite prepared to allocate it to this or any other useful work. [ Hoar, hear ' Mr W. B. TosawiLL said the |hon man opposite had said that he would be grateful to anyone who would show him where the £20,000 had to come from. Well he (Mr Tosswill) would do so. ["Hear" hear," from Mr MaskulL] The hon the vincial Secretary had estimated his land revenue to come up to £ 10,000' per month, or £120,000 for the financial year. Now during the past two months the total amount received was £60,000, or £30,000 more than the hon gentleman had estimated. He (Mr Tosswill thought that he had shown him - that he had the £20,000 for this work. He trusted the House would carry out this resolution because it was so necessary and vital 4 a work, notf alone for Chrietchurch but for the province generally. [Hear, hear.] Mr Joynt said when the hon gentleman opposite brought down his estimates, there was a grand deficit of £200,000, which, however, was only a fancy deficit, after all. When they went on to vote money, and they came to £90,000 for .the Timaru breakwater—:" Oh ? " said the hon gentleman, "although we haven't got the money, we must vote this; let it appear on papierJ , Well, ~ this was just what they wanted on this resolution ; let them have this .£20,000 on paper. - This was the hon member's own argument, and he asked them to carry the resolution, The hon gentlemen on the opposite bench asked the hon member for Heathcote to be satisfied with what the Government had given them ; but it reminded him of the father of old, who when asked for a fish, gave a serpent. Let hon members go to the southern portion of the city, and they would see large tracts of water, and the people prisoners in their bouses. If they waited and waited, as the Government desired, what would be the result, why, that thej exhalations, the miasmas, and fevers, which would aride from the water standing in the low lying parts, would induce a plague and epidemic of fever, which would still further increase the unhealthy character of Christchurch. Taking the hon Provincial Secretary's own statement, he (Mr Joynt) did not see why they should not" have £20.010 on paper as well as £90,000 for the Titnarn breakwater. Mr Gray, unless the Government could give a better reason than they bad done, would vote for the resolution as proposed by the hon member for Heathcote, because there must be something done at once. Hon G. Buckley said that if the votes of the Government were carried out in their entirely, which was likely, there would be ft cash deficit at the end of the next financial year of nearly £90,000. this was a fact which could not be disputed. Aβ regarded the revenue, there was no item except tbe land revenue, which of course was open, to fluctuation. The hon member for Riccarton had called attention to the fact that the land revenue had increased beyond their estimate; but he pointed out that the land revenue might be very largely reduced before the end of the financial year, indeed it might not reach the estimate of the Government. Even taking the increase spoken of, the supplementary estimates would very nearly absorb. _ all this. As regarded the fioutb, there would, at the end of the financial year, be a sum of £80,000 or £90,000 at the credif-of the Timaru and Gladstone district, and thin ~ amount having been spent in the North they _ would be thus much in debt to the South. As regarded the, general question, he might say the Government quite recognised the importance of this subject, but he felt that in the present state of the finances, the amount could not be found. Now, as regarded endowing municipalities, he fl»igk« say that the Government were prepared tfl allot pastoral land as an endowment «■ Cbristehurch and other municipalities-* [Hear, hear J —which would enab|s &J?- mcarry out the works of *™? J Government, of course, were not quite p«*-" J pared to say in what way they would fl o j this, but fee stated what were the intentions I of the Government, [Hear, hear.] i Mr W. B. Tosswill would like to ask thjs I Hon G. Buckley whether it was not a fa« I that the General Assembly would be opPff* I to allowing pastoral land to be alienated «r s the purpose of endowing municipalities. »« I thought that this was the case, and that«» « only way in which that Council could eaaow | municipalities, was by money votes. § Mr J. N. Tosswill was glad to hear from I the Government that they intended to e «w» I the municipalities by means of P BBIO /*' I land, and he understood that an hon n> eni *j* I opposite intended to test this matter oj - putting a resolution on the paper, ana m i hoped the Government would not oppose I Dγ Tubnbull would desire to aek the &'h i member for Heathcote whether "»".•-! Council bad been asked or consulted on «• 1 matter. So far as the City Council w« 1 concerned, he might say that they were I pared to rate themselves for » loan to arm i Chrietchuroh aad the eabaibg thorough? I

and well; but he trusted that it was thoroughly understood that getting this £20,000 ■vrould not interfere with their getting their endowment of pastoral lands as a municipality. He thought that they should not by remarking abont the Board of Health, passively offer an insult to the City Council—a body which had done so much good, and had spent £93,000 of rates raised in the city for the purpose of ameliorating this state ef things. Sir Cracroft Wilson said, in reply to the hon member for Biccarton (Mr W. B. Tosswill), that he did not think there would be any difficulty in getting 100,000 acres of pastoral lands Crown granted by the General Assembly as an endowment. The Hon G. Buckley corroborated what bad fallen from the last speaker. He might Bay that last session an endowment wae made for a hospital in Otago. Mr B. Tubs bull opposed both the resolution and amendment. He thought that the beet way would be to withdraw the resolution and amendment, and place a sum on the estimates to get out a skilled engineerto report upon the matter. To spend £20,000 as proposed would be utterly absurd. Mr Montgomery eaid he understood the bon Provincial Secretary to wish the amount of £20,000 to be left out because they were going to bring down a sketch for the endowment of municipalities by means of a reserve of pastoral land. Now if the hoa gentleman had asked the hon member for Heathcote to agree to report progress uetil the Government scheme was before the House he would have been satisfied. But this was not done, hence he hoped the Council would pass the £20,000. Mr PiLLiET waa rather surprised that the Government did not oppose the motion for going into committee. Hβ [Mr Pilliet) might say that he was prepared to say that the City Council of Christchurch were opposed to the resolution of the hon member for Heathcote. The fact was the resolution waa framed in such an elastic manner that no one could tell where the £20,000 was going to. Who was it to be paid to?—the City Council or the Boad Boards? There wae no information given by the hon member introducing the resolution. He thought that the Council should pause before passing the resolution. He wanted to know who was going to finger the £20,000, Was it to be the City Council or the six or seven suburban Boad Boards ? He also wished to know what steps could be taken by other Boad Boards at a distance who might have swamps to draia and stinks to cure—[laughter]—as well as Christchurch. He felt that the matter should be referred to the Assembly and have a Bill passed to settle the question finally. Mr Parker would support the amendment of the Government, because he intended to give notice of motion that evening as follows—" That hie Honor the Superintendent be respeotfully requested to place upon the supplementary estimates the sum of £3000 for the purpose of procuring a thoroughly good engineering scheme of drainage for Chrietchurch and the suburbs." [Hear, hear.J For this reason he should support the Government amendment. After some remarks from Mr Dixon, Mr Jebson suggested the withdrawal of the resolution. Mr Fishes replied, energetically pointing out that the 100,000 acres promised was a myth, and that he was prepared if the first part of the resolution were carried to refer the matter to a Select Committee. The amendment was then pat and declared to be carried. Mr Fisher demanded a division, which took place as follows :— Ayea ... 18 Noes 16 Majority in favor of amendment 2 The amendment was therefore carried. The following is the division list:— Ayes 18—-Messrs Bluett, Buchanan, Buckley, Brown, Harper, Hay, Jebson, Knight, Maekell, Parker, Peacock, Pilliet, Bayner, Teechemaker, Turnbull, 8,, Walker, Westenra, Wilson, J. O. Noes 15—Messrs Andrews, Dixon, Fisher, Gray, Higgins, Joynt, Jollie, Montgomery, Jfotte, Tancred, Toeswill, J. N., Toeswill, W. 8., Turnbull, J. S., White, W, Williams, Wilson, I. On the committee resuming, the resolution, as amended, was carried. On the second portion of the resolution being put, Mr Fjsheb moved that the chairman report progress, which was agreed to. The resolution, as amended, was then reported and adopted. REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE. Mr Jebson moved —" That a copy of the report and evidence of select committee appointed to inquire into the matters referred to in Resolution No 6, Notice Paper 6th of May, and Besolution No 3, Notice Paper 7th of May, be supplied to the members of the committee and members of the Provincial Council, and other parties interested in the said inquiry who may apply for the same." Mr B. Tubnbull seconded the motion, although he was afraid that from the amount of influence brought to bear that it would not be carried, yet it was a very important matter, aßd should be published. The Provincial Secretary said that he believed the Government might arrange to have copies printed, although the motion did hot state that. Aβ to supplying written copies, he was afraid that the Government could hardly do that. Mr Pilliet moved an amendment to the effect that copies be printed. He thought that the documents should be printed, in order that the public might become acquainted with the working of the department. Dr Tubnbull and Dr Bayner thought there wonld be no objection to the printing of the documents. Mr Webb said, after the promise of the Government to gel a few copies printed, he Would advise the hon member to withdraw the resolution. Mr Jebson said that he would have great pleasure in withdrawing the resolution, relying on the good faith of the Government to have a sufficient cumber of copies printed. Besoltxtion withdrawn. HOBOBATA BBIDGE. Mr Jebson moved that the House go ictp committee to coneider the following resolution—" That hie Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to have placed on the supplementary estimates a sum not exceeding £400, for the purpose of erecting a bridge over the Hororata river, at Hartnell'a crossing." He pointed out that this district had received less than any other district in the province of the proceeds of tl • land ealep, Mr W. White seconded the raotion. The Secretary for Public Works said that the Government would agree to put the sum on the estimates, on the understanding that it was not to be spent until the Government were satisfied of the necessity of the woik. Tb,e motion was agreed to, and the House having gone into committee, the resolution was agreed to, reported, and the report adopted. EDUCATION. Mr Wynn Williams said Jthat he should not move the following resolution until tomorrow —"That this Council will indemnify his Honor the Superintendent for an expenditure under warrant of public money, suffi-, cieat to pay the proportion of one-sixth required by the Education Ordinance to be raised by rate, and that it shall not be necessary for the present financial year to levy such one-sixth by rate; and that this Council will indemnifj his Honor the Superintendent for an expenditure nnder a warrant sufficient to pay the amonnt required for the maintenance of the schools in the province beyond the sum to be levied under the household rates and the rate of 5s for each child. That a respectful address be forwarded to hie Honor the Superintendent embodying I tteforegoingresolutiona." [Oriesof "Goon."] " Sir Cracboft Wilson said—This Gof ernment will not do any business until this motion is disposed of. . Mr Wynn Williams said that his object V» not to take up the whole of the evening at this late hour, as he could, when, the House was in committee on the Education Bill, fcring forward the matter. He only wished, to save time. , Pi Rα jam saia, alfej fee announceraent

of the Government he would move "That the House adjourn." • Mr PiLLiET wae i n favor of the adjournment Mr Parkeb asked whether, when the House went into committee to-night, the hon member would move his motion, and let the House have done with it. Mr Wynn Williams replied that he might explain, as he had previously done, that his object was to save time. Mr J. N. Tosswill suggested that the discussion might be taken at eight o'clock, when the House went into committee on the Education Bill. Sir Cracboft Wilson said the Government would go on with the business. Dγ Rayneb, by leave, withdrew the motion for adjournment. CONDUCT OF BUSINESS. Sir Cracroft Wilson moved—"That during the remainder of the session Government business takes precedence of private business." The motion was agreed to. RESERVES. The Provincial Secretary moved that his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to make the following reserve—" Beven acres (more or less), situate in the Town of Akaroa (Akaroa and Wainui road district), bounded on the north-east-ward by the road 60 links wide, forming the south-western boundary of allotment No 17 ; on the north-westward by the road reserved along the beach ; on the south-westward by rural section 61; and on the south-east-ward by a line 2£ chains dittant from and parallel to the road north-west of allotment No 4. For Provincial Government purposes." The motion was agreed to. CROWN LANDS IN MUNICIPALITIES. Dγ Turnbull moved—" That a return be prepared and laid on the table next session i of Provincial Council, showing the amount • of revenue derived from the sale of Crown lands in each municipality in the province, and the expenditure on roads, bridges, and public works in each municipality, including grants to municipalities." The motion was agreed to. ASHLEY GORGE BRIDGE. Mr Higgins renewed the following notice for to-morrow—•' That it is expedient that a bridge suitable for cart traffic should be erected over the Ashley Biver at the Gorge, provided that persons can be found who will contract to build the Fame and accept payment in land to be selected in the neighborhood, and on the northern side of the river, and that his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to take such steps as may be necessary to give effect to this resolution. The amount of land to be set apart for this purpose not to exceed 600 acres." NORTH BANK OP HAMATE, Mr Bluett moved that the House go into committee to consider the following-—" That his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to place on the supplementary estimates a sum not exceeding £500 for the purpose of protecting the Dorth bank of the Bakaia, below the railway bridge." The Secbetaby fob Public Works said that the Government had come to the conclusion to oppose this vote, as the people of the district had not shown any disposition to help themselves. Mr Bluett having replied, the motion was negatived on the voices. RAILWAY CONNECTION. Mr I. Wilson, for Mr J. E. Brown, moved that the House go into committee to consider the following—" That his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to place on thesupplementary estimates a sum of money equal to the one-fourth estimated cost of the connection of the Kaiapoi and Eyreton railway with the Oxford and Bangiora railway." The Secretaby fob Public Wobks said the Government had come to the conclusion that it would be wise to grant the money, on the understanding that it would not be paid unless the General Government would recoup it. The motion was agreed to. In committee the resolution was agreed to, reported, and the report adopted. EDUCATION ORDINANCE, 1875, The House then went into committee for the further consideration of this bill. On clause 40 being called on, Bon G. Buckley said that considering the importance of the measure, the Government proposed to go on with the Bill in committee, and when it had passed through committee they would ask to have it recommitted, when the hon member for the Heathcote could bring ton his amendment, and perhaps he had better give notice thereof. Mr Wynn Williams inquired whether the Government intended to move replace the words " one sixth" by the words " one half." Mr Parker said that the committee had nothing to do with that now. Sir Cracroft Wilson said it was the intention of the Government to have the Bill re-committed, in order to have the 40th clause amended, as it was originally agreed to by the Executive, and printed. The clause as amended was agreed to. Clauses 41 and 4,2 were agreed to. Clause 43 was moved as follows:—There shall be paid yearly by every householder residing within a radius of three miles from the echool in each such district' a sum of twenty shillings and a further sum of ten shillings for every child of such householder between the ages of six and thirteen years. Provided always that every .householder shall pay the said Tate of twenty shillings upon any dwelling-house warehouse shop or other buildings in hie occupation in each educational district but no such householder shall be liable to pay more than one pound on account of such rate in any one district. Provided also, that no person shall be liable to pay in respect of his children a greater annual sum than forty shillings nor for any child attending a school not receiving aid or reciving efficient instruction in some other manner to the satisfaction of the district school committee. Provided that such child be not incapacitated from receiving such instruction through any mental or physical infirmity and provided that proof of such infirmity be adduced to the satisfaction of the district school committee. Mr J. N. Tosswill moved that the words "ten shillings" be struck out, with the view of inserting the words " five shillings." He contended that the rise from 5s to 10s would cause a great dissatisfaction throughout the province, and give great discouragement to the cause of education. He believed also that the immigrant*, who had been told in England that education for their children was to be got for 6s a head, would complain that they had been deceived in the matter. Mr Knight and Mr W. B. Tosswill supported the clause as printed. Hon G. BUCKLEY contended that, even with the addition contemplated by the Bill, the education of the children was given at a far less cost to their parents than in any other part of New Zealand. He read an extract ftom the report of the London School Board, in proof that the school fees paid there were greater than those proposed here. Mr Wynn Williams hoped that the committee would divide on the matter. An enormous sum had been p«t <?pwn for roads and bridges,: and the vital question of education had been left to take care of itself. He made these remarks in order to show that the reaaon?wby the fee was to be raised was that tVd financial position of the province was it was absolutely necessary to increase the contributions from the people. In order to give this argument any weight, it ought to have been shewn that there was no money <o vote for public works. The whole sum asked for was not so much as was required for building a bridge over a river, and yet the Council did not propose to a>k the public t> contribute one-sixth towards the building of a bridge, but on the question of education, the Government proposed to ask the public to contribute one-half towards the erection of school buildings. Mr Jebson said that the hon member for Papanui eeemed to have forgotten that £32,000 had been voted for education. It was generally believed that the Bill was the hon member's production, and now the hon member seemed to wish to disown his own bantling, and to throw the paternity on some one else. He (Mr Jebeoa) hoped that the principle of the Bill would be maintained in its integrity, and as to the ten shillings, it could be divided into four instalments of two and sixpence, to be paid in advance. He

i .hoped the House would maintain the two items, viz, one half contribution on established districts, and ten shillings per head i for the children. ! Dr Turnbum, trusted that the House ; would reject the obnoxious ten shillings increase, and he congratulated the hon mem- ! ber for Papaaai for baying pat the matter in its true light, fie pointed oat that although it had been said that they were pauperising ■ the minds of the poor, by relieving them from heavy payment for the education of ! their children, yet not a word was said about pauperising the rich by relieving their property from contributing towards the erection of bridges or the making of joads. Mr Fisher would support the amendment of the hon member for Lincoln. The Provincial Secretary said that he did not intend to reply to what might be called the " Gallery cry" of the hon member for Papanui, but he wished to state that the estimated land fund for this year was £120,000. The Government proposed to spend out of the revenue £76,000, and to ask the people of the province to contribute £5000 for the education of their children. Mr Gray contended that education ought to be maintained out of a property and income tax, and not in the manner proposed. He certainly should like to see the sum reduced from 10s to ss, although he would not object to the local contribution being increased from one-sixth to one-half. Mr JoTNT intimated his intention of supporting the amendment moved by the hon member for Lincoln (Mr J. N. Toaawill), because he felt certain that in the large centres of population the increased taxation would press heavily, indeed he had no hesitation in saying that many of the poorer classes were already taxed I beyond their means. Indeed he believed that there were many families who had great difficulty in supplying themselves with the necessaries of life. The hon member, when he alluded to Otago and London, forgot to mention that the inhabitants there had neither household nor building rates to pay as they had here. He (Mr Joynt) would point out how the present system of education was semi-compulsory, and he contended that that being the case they had no right to call upon the parents to pay a large sum for the {education of their children, as had been done under the denominational system; with this difference, that under the denominational system a parent was not compelled to send his children to school, as was the case now. He argued that as the .denominational system was abolished, and a system of State education, and to a large extent a compulsory eystem, introduced, the State ought to bear the burden of education. He hoped that the good sense of the House would carry the amendment, believing that the policy of the Government was a retrogressive policy, which would increase the burdens of the people. [Applause from the strangers , gallery.J The Chairman said he must request that the people in the gallery would restrain their feelings, otherwise he should have to request them to withdraw. The committee divided on the question— " That the words proposed to be struck out stand part of the question." Ayes ... 20 Noes ... 13 Ayes—Messrs Buchanan, Buckley, Harper, Hay, Jebson, Knight, Maskell, Brown, Parker, Peacock, Pilliett, Potts, Bayner, Teschemaker, Toeswill, W. 8., Turnbull, 8., Walker, W. 0., Westenra, White, W., Wilson, J. 0. Noes — Messrs Andrews, Dixon, Fisher, Gray, Higgins, Jollie. Joy&t, Montgomery, Tancied, Tosswill, J. N., Turnbull, J, S., Williams, H. W., Wilson, I. The amendment was consequently lost, and the clause passed as printed. Glauses 44 to 48 inclusive were passed as printed. Clause 49 wae passed as follows :—"The committee of any school may set apart either one whole school day or two half school days in every week during which any minister or ministers of religion or person or persons appointed by them and approved by the local committee may impart religious instruction to such of the children on the books of the school as may belong to his or their religions denominations. Provided that no child or children shall be allowed to attend at euch instruction except on a written request to that effect addressed to the teacher by the parente or guardians of such qhildren." Mr Walkeb said be proposed to take away from any local committee the power to refuse religious instruction to those children whose parents might desire it. He maintained that without religious instruction the education they were giving waa useless. He would move as an amendment —*• That instead of the word ' may ' the word 'shall , be substituted." If that were carried he should move another amendment for giving religious instruction on one halfday. Dγ Bayneb seconded the amendment, and said that he would also move that the words and " approved by the local committees" be struck ont. Mr W. B. Tosswill said that he had never heard of a single instance where [the local committee having given permission, the system of giving religious instruction had not worked well. He thought that the House ought not to shirk the question on the local committees. He was of opinion that it was the duty of the State to give every facility to giving religious instruction. Mr B. Turnb.ull trusted that the amendment would not be carried, and that the Government would support the clause as it stood. Mr Brown said that he was opposed to any minister of religion of any denomination interfering with the public schools. If this were allowed it would lead to strife. He hoped that the power of the local committees would be retained, and that the education given in the public schools should be of a secular character, religious instruction being jiven in the Sunday schools The SECRETARY FOB PUBLIC WOBKS said that he hoped the clause would not be altered. The matter had been fought out some time ago, and he saw no necessity for re-opening the question. Mr Jebson expressed himself in favor of the amendment. Mr J. N. Tosswill trusted that the clause would be allowed to remain as it stood. If the amendment were altered they would ran the greatest possible risk of stirring up a strife which it would be the b?st to avoid. Mr Harper would vote for the amendment. If that were rejected he would move that the whole clause be struck out. Mr Joynt said that if the amendment were carried, the whole day or two half-days set apart for religious instruction wouM, he feared, be devoted to controversies which it would be better to avoid. If the amendment were carried, he trusted that the clause would be struck out altogether. Mr Andrews said if it were imperative on the committees to allow religious instruction to be given, it would be better to strike out the clause. If religious instruction was to be given, it should be before the school opened or after it closed. Mr Higgins said that he could not vote for the amendment, although he was greatly in favor of religions instruction. Still, he feared if it were passed it would give rise to many evils which it was desirable to avoid. It appeared to him that it would le far better to leave the clause as it stood. The committee divided on the question— " That the words proposed to be struck out stand part of the question." Ayes ... 18 Noes ... 10 Ayes—Messrs Andrewe, Dixon, Fisher, Hay, Higgins, Jollie, Joynt, Brown, Montgomery, Peacock, Pilliett, Tancred, Teschemaker, Toeswill J. N.. Turnball 8., Westenra Wilson I, Wilson J. C. Noes—Messrs Buchanan, Buckley, Harper, Jebson, Knight, Parker, Bayner, Tosswill W. 8., Walker, White W. The amendment was consequently lost. Mr Jhbson moved that the words "And appnn ed by the local committee " be struck out. The amendment was negatived, and the clause passed as printed. Progress was reported, and leave given to sit again next sitting day. Notices of motion having been given, the House adjourned until 3"p.m, this day,