PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Press, Volume XVI, Issue 2157, 17 March 1870, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wednesday, Meroh 16. The Speaker cook the chair at 5 p.m. THE KOETHEEN RAILWAY; On the motion of Mr JolilE the House went into committee on the resolutions respecting the Northern Railway, Hon. G. L. Lee in the chair, when in conformity with the resolution passed last night the following witnesses were examined, and on the motion of Mr Jollie, Mr Grey was allowed to sit at the table to take shorthand notes. Mr Dixon suggested that the examination of each gentleman should be taken separately, and that those gentlemen not under examination should be requested to withdraw. Mr Wynn Williams said that such a course might be very well at a criminal trial, or at nisi, but was hardly applicable to the examination of gentlemen before that House. Mr Hall and Mr Bbowit depeecated the suggestion made by the hon. member (Mr Dixon).

Mr Bbown suggested that the Provincial Engineer should first be examined.

The Chairman stated the manner in which he proposed to conduct the examination of the witnesses.

Mr Bibch referred the Chairman to the Standing Order regulating the examination of witnesses*

The Chairman said that he was perfectly aware of the Standing Order in question, which was in accordance with the course he intended to pursue. He thought that the questions should be put into writing and put through the Chairman.

Mr J. S. Williams differed from the ruling of the Chairman as to the questions being first put into writing.

Mr T. S. Duncan could see no reason why the evidence should not ba taken in a manner similar to that adopted in a Court of Law, viz., that the question should be given viva voce, and the answer taken down in writing. Mr Hawses and Mr Ftpe said that the course previously adopted was that referred to by the hon. member (Mr T. S. Duncan). The Chaibman said that he would, in deference to the wish of the House, adopt the course suggested. The practice he had spoken of was that pursued in the Assembly.

Mr G. Thornton was called in and ex amined:—

By Mr Maskell—l have examined the whole ground between Mason's Corner at Kaiapoi Island and Ooote's mill. The cutting below Coote's mill will run into tbe south branch of the Waitnakariri. There may be a material change in the width of the channel since my report was made on 17th December, 1869— certainly not for the better. The northern portion of the soil where the new channel crosses is very boggy; at the bottom the water runs through blue clay. I do not consider the statement I have made in tbe report that the northern branch of the Waimakariri hae made a permanent channel for itself from Mason's Corner to Coutt'e Mill is favourable rather than otherwise to the line being carried across there.

By Mr Dixon—l am not aware that, any surrey has been made by the Publio Works Department within the last three months The stream was leaving the river near Kaiapoi Island in one large deep channel at the time I saw it. I do not consider that the cutting would extend itself westward so as to join the main river. I would apprehend more danger to the works from a scour than a deposit, now that the cutting has tapped the northern branch and ie bringing down the water in a straight line. I think it is likely to continue so. I took no account of the substratum of Kaiapoi Island.

By Mr Peacock—l have made an estimate of a bridge somewhere near the head of the Btyx ; the cost would be about £24,168. My directions were to survey generally the river, and I confined my attention to the river, not to the proposed route. Ido not consider that any danger would accrue to White's bridge from the cutting through the Island. There would be no difficulty in putting a bridge across the south branch, only the expense.

By Mr Webb—l have no estimate of the cost of the proposed railway according to the Commieeionere' route. I can give no idea of the coats.

By Mr Johnstone—l was not instructed to make a valuation of what the cost of the line would be.

By Mr Birch—l know of no place better to croas than that proposed by the Commissioners ; their site is the best that can be obtained for crossing.

By Mr Hawkes —I do think it would not be advisable to cross the riyer to the westward beyond the point of White's bridge. By Mr Fyfe—The proposed western line crosses the cutting, and there would be considerable danger to the line from the river. It would be impossible to get a better line than that suggested by the Commissioners. I cannot tell the actual difference in length between the two lines, as I have not gone into the question. By Mr J. S. Wiiliams-rThe river at the upper part of the island has changed ite course materially during the last few years in the direction of the propoeed western line. I

do not think the river l, a , cUngedlilT"" materially in the dire.it lino tr (i , n iA, C<ixm « to Kangiora. I think the cbi vu\ N 0 " the cutting is porm.iP.ont, ulthou"h • of time it may bo clinked with el i , C ° therefore it cannot, bo considered M ~ir ,and permanent. Taking tho Mpe , t of tho where the river is under tidilin,? 00,1,,1 ? does not eeem to have shifted , - Co materially. Uea I{a course By Mr Brown—l did not m« R width of the north branch of tt JK?. «>• kann other than ie laid down in the 11 a ' examined tho river behind Mr wf ' * house. There was no cuttiojr on fl,« m d ' s betwoen Addington and KanriorV !)!' liU,d made my report in December last T? * not been there since in order to n whether there is a cutting carrying overflow of water. I do not know thai X Iβ a cutting now carrying tho water J'ri north brancli into the rivor. Ido no t\ • there is any danger in the croeaing o f IS Commissioners' line. Ido not think it 1 v be impracticable to take a line acrlT !? island in the direction of R ang io ra but k would be much more expensive than the P miseioners , line. In constructing a Ji°" l ' through a Hooded country near Kai a H ehould be enhrely guided by circum«»r« It ia a difficult thing to say what in the cuttings of the rivers here. 11? prepared to eaj that the direct route -•«, ,\! practicable, nor did I ever think so but t would be more expensive. The bridges J! the Sty* would be avoided byadiit Z from Addington to Eangiora, but uo&wZ Commieeionere , line. 9

By Mr Jollie—l examined the whole rin* most thoroughly, from the junction of tl! etream to Templar'e Island. 1 unhesitating state that there was no site for crossing tm& to that in the Com miseioners , lino, j ff « four days examining the river. If'tho line crossed the upper end of tho ieland a rush of water would acour the line. I find I made ar error in etating thao the line from Addijj»toii to Bangiora would not cross the Stvs font would do so. '

The committee adjourned for Mm minutes.

Mr a. Thobnton called in and examined by Mr Peacock—The Waimatariri ia not worse to bridge than the Bakaia. It k possible that a deposit of ehingle would, to some extent, effect the aouth branch. I hate not travelled along the Commissioners' from the south to the north branch, but I have examined the croßsingg! I confined my attention to the river, I estimated that the river had risen fiw feet in Kaiapoi, but that waa an exceptional case. If such a rise took place iorsia the Commissioners' line I do not febinfr It would materially affect it. lam speaking kow of Kaiapoi.

By Mr Maekell—-I am not of opinion th&t if the new channel takee almost all the water from the north branch that the necessity of a large bridge over the Waimakariri would k done away with ; it would etill require a large bridge. I think the banks of the now ohannel will become larger from year to year. I considered my instructions from the Government to be that I was to emmie the river generally. I consider the report I gave in December last sufficiently correct to guide the Council now. I csn offe no opinion as to the different routed, ess I confined my attention to the rivers.

By Mr Brown—lt would coet mere for bridging the rivere by the westerly route. I did not estimate the cost of bridging the rivers on that line because I considered bridging the rivers on the Commissioner/ lino would be less costly. I consider thf.fc the overflow of the Ashley and the Waiamkariri caused the flood at Kaiapoi, and probably if the same amount of rainfall again occurred a similar flood might result, but the contingency is so remote that it hardly requires to be considered. The girder bridge at Eaiapci has not been waehed away but fcho western abutment has been injured. Many of the bridges have been injured, but I attribute that to their bad design aud construction. I have not estimated the cost of the bridges on the Styx. By Mr Peacock—l ascertained tbe width of the river at the north branch by reference to the map, and I should judge it to be about twenty-five chains. The girder bridge mwm the north branch is not taken acrois the narrowest part. The witness then withdrew. Mr W. B. Bkay wae then called m vA examined. By Mr Dixon—l had the ParliamontaJ plans of the Northern Kailway at ray diapofM in order to make my report. The cutting was not made then that has cut through a tongue of land since I was there. I believe it W taken a straight courae. This cutting™ most likely widen its channel very materoli y. We saw specimens of the substrata at Kaiapoi Island. It would be extremely interesting » a matter of science to survey this cutting every month and report itfl pregKJS. (Laughter.) „,„ By Mr Hall-I believe the Bangio»e«afflp was under water for some time along w Commissioners' line. I believe that woaia stop traffic for a few days but not injure nw railway. ~ , _» By Mr Peacock—l do not ectowpaw m particular difficulty in bridging the now branch. I know the .Oommiuvmm «£. throughout; I also know to some exten t«* direct line; I think the western routegP» through the Rangiora swamp. By Mr Maskell—lt would be.den«ew«JJ take the line over the new channel on acwu» of the enlargement which is steadily tawje place. By ereoting protective worie along • railway through the Bangiora »•»»?» traffic might be prevented from being »«• rupted. It would cost five times as »**■ construct the western line aa the on* **"* mended by the Commieaioners. Idoß r*7 fO the difference in length between w>

By Mr Biroh—The lower groood by the Kaikainui Hotel, or by Dr.Df V ■*£ might or migh&not be suitable for —but it would be most desirable. «*« station should be as central 88 fB would be an advantage to have a dry.■*' one easily drained for a Eailway s f tlo °* By Mr A. Duncan-It would bej ***£ to provide for the passage of ac maco higher up the Styx m it wousa m Commissionere , line. , .limnfe By Mr Brown~l have made m the cost of the construction of tno Wf tary line, as far ac Bangtora. f y, levels aU over Bangiora $ 1863, and I do not apprehend eny b current of water where the.parlianJJ would pass. I am not aware itm . g , were washed away along the P*f P os jr meatary line, Ido not know the Oiso^

-"""""""Cnal cutting on KaiapoL Island ; the of the <*P** l Jome serpentine at the top ; the , U uiog h f ß v like the letter S I am lowing ° ni ;, t a n ew cutting has beon cut no t • I ? re l ! , ttcr S I speak of; it was not bo s cro*9 tbe it j haTe not specially is Feb TC» length of the direct line from iffla,e iS to Section 3892. I should judge gectisn & & *<> tbe Btream between the two the m ta be 15 or 16 chains. I ccc jectioc* l 0 t}iat t ij e direct line crosses (ton tbe p havfl not made a pergonal intbeSr c * f lhe direct line from Addington o* . & liori J 0 ShJUt' consider that where the B * • rmlning with considerable force ** • no security that the channel will tber o iii »o a * d therefore it would be yjtjism tne for tbe contingency of jjecessary t - ite COU ree. I think an be much preferable to a *°*al i bridge over the rivere requiring to be SSiparing the western line with pfrliamentary route the cost would be DUon-T/1 found the subetratum J&i wae composed of natural concrete \ eosld be good grounds for erecting a *o fent the soil is composed, as far as ***V eeeo of a sort of quickeand. I did *? iLect the cutting where the subC . turn had been laid open foreome time and estimate of £78,000 tiknpA by mc inclades all works, etatione, rSinJ purchase of land. *tf Mr I 8 Williame-I have paid parJKr attention for some years to the action KofleriTers both here and in Europe. This concluded the examination. Mr Joiißi said if the committee wished it irfTflncred, who had been engaged in the %eyl lTompany with Mr Bray, cculd be "oTbeing put to the committee, it was decided that it was not necessary to examine Mr Teocred on the question. THB UOBTHBBN EAILWAY. The resolotione on the Northern Railway, proposed by the Provincial Secretary, were Mr BibcH wished to impress upon the BOTernroent the necessity of having a central of Kaiapoi. One of the DO»t important reasons for this was the fact hat probably within some no very lengthened jeriod-certainly within a life time—the Itkpi river would have ceased to be navi--sble, and hia object in rising was to impress Mi foot opon the notice of the Government, rith a riew to its careful consideration by hew, the closing of the outlet rendering it operative that a central etation should be reeled in the town of Kaiapoi. iffr JoiilK said that the matter alluded to «the hon. member for Kaiapoi should have be beet attention of the Government, who rould endeavor on the one hand to secure a mc which would be constructed at the least oet> end at the same time confer the greatest mount of benefit upon the people. Mr Bbowtt said he rose to move an amendaenfc on the resolutions of the Governlent. He had fully expected to find that at he present session of the Council the Governlent would have come down prepared with Uoe, statistics, &c, concerning this railway; at such was not the case. The line he had droeated during the last session, and which c intended to propose ac an amendment on ie pretest Government proposition, waa a bet line from Addington etation to Eaniota. What he complained of, and what he !lt he had a right to complain of, was fehat id line he had projected had not been tipected by the professional gentlemen aployed by the Government. If hon. lembera would take the maps and reports as id on the table of that House, they would nd that the lino projected by him had not een examined. He was ready to give up II idea of a direct railway to Rangiora if iose professional gentlemen, in whose oneety, impartiality, and skill he had the reatest confidence, after examining the route jd down by him, gave it as their opinion latit was not practicable. It was utter madm to build a line to a place where the ulffay would be brought into direct competion with water communication, with what 'suit he would appeal to hon. members who sd seen the results of similar competition in ther parts of the world. He himself had :ea in America the Erie canal successfully smpeting with three railways, the railways ettiog the passenger traffic and the canal the oodg. If the line were carried to Kaiapoi the »ult would a dead loss, but by the route 'Web. he (Mr Brown) advocated, the trade ould be tapped and every bushel of »m aad every bale of wool in that large 'strict wonld be conveyed over the line. 'esidee be felt that the northern settlers were to share in the benefits derivable J® the tunnel, which had been built with » money of the whole province. It was * desirable in a province similar to this, fbere the trade was limited, that there should * one central emporium of trade, and J« Bhoold be in Christchurch, but L'Wey carried the line to Kaiapoi would not be attained, bs the a«e» would prefer the water communica- ®« Ihere was one point to which he would «J» to call the attention of the committee, -atiiatttae that on the plans laid before the what was there represented as river--2* ■*«■ actually laid down in BngJNjass. Aβ he had before stated he would the idea if the professional gentleS , °° mc down t0 that Council f ay that it wae not feasible j but * *8s certain that if the line he E ted were adopted the producing SK Would be "ached, and the result Ztl ?t * mete. a d of P rovil) g a 1088 t0 . the •jrsM competing with water communicaJ«J produce of those large districts would J>JW«fc Christchurch, thus constituting, jwnght.that place as the centre of trade jyW o !* oo6 - He would move an amendi2* # c €ffecfc that the thorid be i 2? 0N considered it to be hie duty to ijJtWhe amendment. He believed that had not given proper inffSur engineers as to the survey bill Ct liDe * He was of opinion that if made to Kaiapoi it would be financial blunder that had ever The toirn of Kaispoi wae s| j* a PPendage to the northern district, 5 Wee! was taken merely the town of Kaiapoi inBft districts ie was evident 81 ad )een tek en to'.enr*o»Tat line Which had been a g reed *«9»it. Mt Beeaion » and that being the ttat the Co" 1101 ? **& heea j, %cJ S * w e P reMnt session on false « *o«Jd contend also that if the JTOrtby the Leeeton road it would not

be a success j whereas on the contrary, the direct Jme would command the whole of the paeeenger traffic, together with a very largo portion of the goods' traffic ; and moreover would bo the means of opening up a very large portion of available land, which would eventually yield an immense return. Mr Maskell said thnt until the latter part of the evening he waa of opinion that the western route was the beer ; but after hearing the evidence of Mr Bray, lie fel* it to be hie duty to vote against it,and amongst the reasons for this vote ho found they would have more bridges on the line than on the eastern one, and for these reasons he could not vote for carrying the bridge across the Island. He was in difficulty in the matter, because he wished to know how far the £50,000 would carry the railway ; and moreover it had been distinctly affirmed last session that the railway should not be made by the Government, and for these reasons he should rather prefer walking out of the House, and not voting on the question.

Mr Peacock could not allow the resolution to pass without recording his protest against the line propoeed by the Government. He felt convinced that if the railway was carried to Kaiapoi they would never get traffic from the western districts. Parties would rather prefer sending their produce by water as being che-per than by rail. Mr Joilie vindicated the course of action that the Government had taken with reference to the line which they proposed to make as far as the money would go, viz., to Kaiapoi, leaving it to a future Council to appropriate the funds necessary for completing the line. The construction of the line to Kaiapoi would be upwards of £53,392, exclusive of the land to be purchased, which according to the Surveyor's valuation was £11,000. Whether it would be well to construct that line under the circumstances was a question for hon. members to decide. j

Mr J. S. Williams approved of the course taken by the Government, and said that the question to be considered was whether the line could be*constructed to the place proposed within a reasonable time, but at the same time he thought it necessary that this line, like every other in the province, should emanate from a given centre, viz., Christchurch. He should support the course taken by the Government.

Mr Wynn Williams pointed out that if the resolutions were not passed now they could not apply to the General Assembly until the session after next, which would be at least a year.

Mr Montgomeby advocated passing the resolution as brought forward by the Government.

A division took place on the amendment as follows :—Ayes, 4 ; noes, 24. The resolution as previously amended was agreed to as follows : —

(I) That this Council is of opinion that the Northern Railway should commence from the AddiDgton station on the Southern Bail way ; and from thence along the line determined by the Great Northern Bail way Act, 1864, continuing along that line as far as the northern branch of the Waiinakariri river, with the exception of such deviations as are recommended by Messrs Bray and Tancred, Civil Engineers, and which may be accepted by the Government; and after crossing the northern branch of the Waimakariri at or near the point previously determined by the aforesaid Act, that it shall follow Boys' direct Rangiora Road to a point at or near the westernmost corner of section No. 930 : thence following a curved line to the road north-west of the Native Reserve, and along that road to its junction with the Rargiora and Kaiapoi Road. The following resolutions were agreed to without discussion : —

(2.) That the necessary powers for the construction of the line should be sought from the General Assembly, at its approaching session.

(3.) That His Honor the Superintendent be requested to take immediaie steps for the purchase of the land required for the railway, wherever the offers made by the owners are considered reasonable.

(4) That wherever the owners of lands required consent to take compensation in waste lands, under the 42nd clause of Waste Lands Begulations, the Government should arrange accordingly, provided that no lands to be so taken in compensation should be taken to the south of the Bangitata.

The Chaibman put the next resolution — "That immediate steps should be taken to procure from England the necessary rails and ironwork for the conduction of the bridges."

Mr Hawkbs moved—"That the words c from England' be struck out." Mr Jollie said that the Government would consent to the amendment.

A desultory discussion ensued, several hon. members expressing a wish that the consideration of the question should be postponed. Three divisions took place on the question "That the Chairman do report progess," which was negatived on each division. At the conclusion of the third division Mr Brown, rose and was proceeding to address the House, when many of the members rose, and leaving the House, retired into the lobby. Mr Inglis thereupon rose and called the Chairman's attention to the state of the House. The Chairman then left the chair, and the Speaker was about to resume his seat when the hon members, who were in the lobby, entered the House. The Chairman again resumed his seat, and the discussion proceeded until a quarter of an hour had elapsed, when a division again ensued at 135 am on the question of reporting progress, which was negatived. Ultimately, the Chairman did report progress, and obtained leave to sit again to-morrow. -Nearly all the hon. members then left the House, and as there was no quorum present, the Speaker vacated the chair at 1 45 am, and the House stands adjourned until 5 p m|to-day.