NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT.

Press, Volume X, Issue 1193, 3 September 1866, Page 3

NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT.

• HOUSE 01 REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 28. PBOVINCIAL LOANS. aft Campbell asked the Colonial Treasurer, Aether it is the intention of the Govern- * tobring in a BUI this session to consoh?tSe provincial loans, with a view to Irmg them with the General Government "* said he was not prepared Jay more than that the whole matter was of the Government. * CANTBMVBT WASIE LANDEI BILL. MrHAttß«d that in moving the first read- . f thTabove Bill, he explained to the S g Ithereicms that had induced him to H ?>forward and it was therefore unneg ' for S'todetain the House further that the Bill be now read a *S!J-aotion for the second reading was and the BUI was ordered to be comMX omi ON STEAM ENGINES. <Thß resolution in reference to the remission „4£tain duties on steam engines, and mining £|agricultural machinery, was read a second tint* snd agreed to. m legislative council bill. On the Council going into committee on $fosm, it was moved that the Chairman ihnnld leave the chair. S Commits* divided, when there were f or the motion ltf 5 against it, 38. The motion was therefore lost. Mr Stappobd said that the Government luAnatbad sufficient time to consider the Si Li,™ the committee. He had voted for KreUa* second readings in order that the S Siottld be properly considered, and a SLeT copclusioa arrived at. For his own She w**" l *" or of al i^ lectlTe 1D 1 8tead of Snative Chamber. [Hear, hear.] Mr h Q. Richmond expressed a simdar Committee resuming at seven; °MrCbosbib Wabd rose to speak on the before the House. They were not 'S to make any great constitutional change. Fob oh'l—they were merely going to place theWiativeCouncu in the position it occuajedtmifl a very recent period. He wished Lymemberßto reflect that what was sought L was not any great nhango in the Constitution; but the propositions that had been brought forward since the Bill was submitted to the House were evidently calculated to effect a very great constitutional change indeed. Reference bad been made to the Upper; 'House of Victoria, and the fact of that Chamber being an elective body, was advanced as an ailment why the Legislative Council oflSew Zealand Bhould be elective instead of __nomma-; tiw.l But where,- he would ask, was the argu-i .siept in support of such a statement? Had • ttey always the best men in tha Upper House of Victoria ? Was it not known that a wor-. ship of wealth had often returned the very .wont men to that Chamber? , Was it not nefarious, too, that adventurers, play actors, hej would cay, had been returned to that House by misguided electors. Su;b a system would certainly be injurious to New Zealand. The ttofl had not arrived when any change in the legislative Council of New Zealand should be considered. He hoped the Committee would consent to consider the proposal submitted to them as a very simple one, and not as one involving any constitutional change in the gov-, ernment of the country. If the Legislative Council were obnoxious to those hon. members who raised the cry of democracy, he would advise them to leavo the House of Representatives, and use their influence to obtain seats in -fee Upper Chamber of the Legislature. Mr J. C. Richmond, in reply to some of the remarks by Mr Ward, said that the Upper Chamber was growing weak, and had a tendency to grow weaker. He (Mr Richfaoak) was more disposed to support the Bill M it originally stoodj than as amended. ij[r Hall said that on this occasion the Government was not called upon to express a thtula* opinion and to give a like vote, because, before the Government was formed, they iad expressed opinions differing from each other. He was disposed to vote both for the BUI as it originally stood, and with the amendment proposed. If it could be shown thafran elective Chamber would be the better of the two, it would then be premature to pass the present Bill in committee. They had a nominated Chamber, and it had worked well, he thought, since first it was constituted. He would vote for the Bill, and was prepared to accept the amendments that had been proposed to it. • *'Mr Joseph Newman thought that the wisest course to pursue would' be to let the Legislative Council remain as it was. Mr Whitakeb remarked that Mr Newman bad said no evils existed, and therefore it was ■fetter to let well enough alone. But there were evils existing, and it was time that they ihould be remedied. At the present time no: .inducement was held out to men of standing; "in the country to take seats in the Upper '.House, because that Chamber did not take 'thai independent attitude it should certainly' Msume. He considered that a limitation was; awneasarj, and he would therefore support the Bui. , Mr Staepobd reiterated his opinion that the legislative Council of New Zealand should bo .changed from a.nominative to an elective! body. If the Bill were passed in its present; shape, he certainly would not advise his Excellency to assent to it. [Cheers.] | " Sir David Mokbo observed that as the -House of Representatives consisted of seventy s members, the Legislative" Council should be composed of thirty-five. ' Mr Busks moved an amendment to the Bill beuig considered, as follows:—" That in the opinion of this ; committee it is inexpedient to entertain any proposition with respect to f %• constitution of the Legislative Council, ■shush does not provide for the said Council being elective, and that with this view, a Rapectful address be transmitted to his Excellency the Governor, in order that he may be pleased, during the recess, to have a measure waned accordingly." The Chairman ruled that the amendment •flOaJduotbeput. . Mtßuens then moved that the Chairman would report progress. The motion for reporting progress was putj and lost on a division. Ajes,23j noes, 26. aaid that it was clear the Bill "Sfpald be rejected if it should go to a vote, and would therefore move that the Chairman should report progress. Mr Wabd enquired whether the hon. member meant that the Chairman, should report progress, with leave to sit again next day, or whether he meant that progress should be wported with a view to stopping the Bill . altogether? Mr Rsvxoujrreplied that it was his desire tbatthe Bill should be stopped. Mr Btsksx suggested that the words, " with WftTe to sit again," should be added to Mr amendment He did not wish to oßrkeany discussion on the subject; but he must let it be understood that he would use *»» best endeavors to have the Bill thrown The amendment was withdrawn, and Mr Kegels amendment to Clause 2 of the Bill * 88 .P«t as follows:—"Except as is hereafter Provided the number of members of the «g«lativo Council shall not exceed such number as from time to time is in the proPortion of one to two members of the House « Bepresantatives." Th* committee divided on the question oemgpat for tho insertion of the above as , Uause 2. ' 0w, 195 noß - 24 *>- --aus Cjiaibmam reported progress, and the «U was therefore thrown out. Ti e i, Wedneßt, ay, August 29. -»>e following Bills were brought in and *«» • An* time :~PrivDeges Bill; aßilltc opiate the issue of Treasury Bills; a Bill t< «m*ohdate and amend the Goldfields Acts ; a m i 0 lm Poße a duty on bonded warehouses. m, , BEOQND HEADINGS. time vn ing BiUs were * cad a BecoD< 6 s "~ i:u0 Otago Municipal Corporation Ac

Amendment Bill; Summary Procedure on Bills Bill; Oyster Fisheries Bill} Sale of Poisons Bill. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. On the question that the House go into Committee of Supply, Mr Macandbew said that he had thought it would be better to have gone first into Committee of Ways and Means, to see what there was at the disposal of the country. It had been said that at present no sums would be voted but those absolutely necessary ; but it might be said that all were absolutely necessary. For his part he would not be a party to any further taxation ; he believed that a good deal might be saved on the Estimates in departments. He himself was prepared to strike off at .one fell swoop the Defence and Native Estimates, and reduce the miscellaneous items by £15,000. By these means he believed £350,000 might be reserved for the prosecution of public works in the provinces, and he trusted that he would be supported. The Hon W. Fitzherbebt said that he was glad to see that the hon member was prepared to assist tho Government in a course of retrenchment, but he might say that it would be absolutely impossible to make the saving mentioned. The Government was prepared to listen to any objections that might be made to the Estimates of the present Government, but believed that no material reduction could be made in them. The Defence Estimates were not yet sent down, but when they came, it would be found that they would not be exorbitant. The Colonial Treasurer then proceeded to defend the Native and Defence Estimates. He hoped the hon member had not meant to insinuate that these sums were to be voted for the extermination of the Natives. The Colonial Treasurer then proceeded to show that they would be voted for a very different purpose. ' The House then went into Committee of Supply, and passed the votes under the head of Customs, amounting to £46,320 25., without j alteration. While the Estimates under the , head of Justice were being considered, various ( reductions were proposed on the item Resi- , dent Magistrate's Court, but the vote was _ ultimately agreed to with a reduction of £225 in the Province of Picton. j Thursday, August 30. i MARINE BOABD ACT. j Mr BtTBNS asked the Postmaster-General ' what steps had been taken to give effect to the 1 Marine Board Act. ' The Hon Mr Hall replied that the greater ] part of the steps that had been taken to give effect to the Marine Board Act of last Session had been taken by the late and not by the; i present Government. It was found impossible £ —certainly it was not wise—to bring that Act i into effect until some provision should be made J for discharging the duties that had hitherto i been discharged by the Marine Board. Art rangements had now been completed; Mr; 1 Balfour was engaged as Marine Engineering 1 Superintendent for the colony, and was now ] installed in office. THE PANAMA SEBTICE. Mr Baldwin asked the hon the Postmaster- i General whether the Government had made c any arrangement with the Government of 1 the United States with reference to the i transmission of letters and newspapers from c the United States to this colony by way of Panama. " ■ t The Hon Mr Hall replied that satisfactory \ arrangements had been made with the British \ Post-office. 8 EXEMPTION FBOM SBBVING ON JUBIES. Mr Cabgill moved —" That in the opinion J of this House all volunteers holding a certifi- f cate of efficiency be exempted from service on < juries, and that a Bill be introduced to amend ! to that extent the Volunteer Act, 1865." Hon members would recollect that up to the passing of the Act last session volunteers were ex- > empted from serving on jurie3. When the * Act was brought forward, it was urged that if i volunteers were exempted from service the list of jurymen that would be obtainable I would be reduced to such a limit that in point \ of fact a jury could not be found. It was \ then asserted, too, that the volunteers were c the men best suited for juries, but he (Mr]* Cargill) contended that they were not.C c [Laughter.] He hoped therefore the House T would consent to the resolution he had the I honor of moving. ' The Hon. Mr Hall regretted that the hon. a member had so disparaged the volunteer body. He did not think that the volunteers as a body E would ask for the privileges sought for by the hon. member. He (Mr Hall) was second to ' no one in showing his appreciation of the serf vices rendered by volunteers, who were * deserving of every encouragement; but he i thought that Mr Cargill should not have said that they were unsuited to serve on juries, and 1 trusted that the hon. member would not press his motion. Mr MooßHOtrsa said he had listened with great gratification to the speech of the hon. member who had just sat down. He did not ( think that Mr Hall was fully aware of the y duties that had to be performed by volunteers. He (Mr Moorhouse) had not the honor of be- ' longing to the volunteer body, but he would say that some inducement or privilege should be given to members of volunteer companies' 1 to repay them for the sacrifice they made for the safety of the country. Their duties were ' certainly of a more irksome nature than those _ of the hon. the Postmaster-General, who, like all other legislators, was working for his existence. [Laughter.] Mr Geokge Gbaham opposed the motion. Mr Bttbns, Mr Hepbtjbn, and Mr Beswick, supported the motion. Mr Voobl also supported the motion, because he believed that the fact of volunteersbeing exempted would not interfere with the . efficiency of the jury lists. He would suggest an amendment, however, which was to the effect that the privilege should apply to the volunteers of the Southern Island only. If the motion applied to the Northern Island, he believed that then the efficiency of the jury lists would be interfered with. The Hon. Mr Fitzhebbebt supported the motion in its original sh»pe. The Hon. Major Riohabdson thought it was unwise, seeing that the feeling of the House was in favor of the motion, to prolong the discussion further, because he was certain that if a division were taken there would be found to be a very small minority .; againpt it. In Dunedin, the volunteer force numbered 400 men, and surely the jury lists would not there be rendered inefficient by the fact of so small a number being exempted from service. Mr Atkinson spoke in favor of the motion. They required volunteers, and be would ask what terms were they ready to offer to get them? Surely their exemption from the jury lists would be fully compensated if such an inducement were held out to persons joining the volunteer body. Mr Dice said he agreed with the motion proposed by Mr Cargill. Mr Walkeb said that with all respect to

volunteers he must oppose tho motion. ' Mr Reynolds also opposed the motion. IHe thought that before the motion was ibrougnt forward, the opinion of the judges should have been obtained on the matter. On one or two occasions the exemption of volunteers had been felt in Dunedin, and it was gaid that the juries were very inferior in their composition. If the volunteers had exemption from service, and the militia called out, it would then be very difficult to procure juries, and the administration of the law would thereby be impeded. He suggested that the opinion of the judges should -be obtained before any decision was come to on the subject. , The Hon Mr Stafsobd suggested that the motion should be postponed until the judges should all meet in Wellington. Mr- Oaosßiß Wahd said it was preposterous to talk of keeping up a Volunteer or Militia Force unless they gave to them those privileges that were sought for. In regard to the last session, it might have had the effect of reducing the numbers of the companies with whom be was associated. They believed that the boon had been taken from them hastily, and now, if exemption were denied them, he (Mr Ward) believed that it ■ would have an injurious effects Mr Wilson contended that this was a matter with which the House was better able I to deal than the judges. t Mr Cabqili having replied,

The motion was put and carried. Colonel Haultain and Mr Cargill were ordered to prepare and bring in the Bill. The Bill was brought in, read a first time, ordered to be printed, and made an order of the day for Tuesday next. SECOND BBADIN&S. The Treasury Bills Bill and Protection of Animals Bill were read a second time. bills passed. The Summary Procedure on Bills Bill and the Sale of Poisons Bill were read a third time and passed. THE GOLDFIELDS. The Hon. Major Kichabdson brought up the report of the committee appointed to cot* sider the Acts relating to the Goldfields. The resolution of the committee recommended that the administration of the laws relating to the Goldfields should remain in the hands of the General Government at present. Friday, August 31. NEW LIOHTHOtTSES. Mr Bubns asked the Hon. the PostmasterGeneral—" If it is proposed to place a sum on the Estimates for the erection of a lighthouse on Cape Saunders, or the Nuggets; and also for the erection of another lighthouse on Cape Ftrewell Spit." He said that the machinery and lanterns for a lighthouse had been purchased in Otago, but there were not sufficient funds to set it up. He hoped that the Government would erect lighthouses both on the Nuggets and on Cape Farewell Spit. The Hon. J. Hall said that the Government would erect them as soon as it could afford it, end was of opinion that a lighthouse would be better on the Nuggets than on Cape Saunders. POSTAL SEBVIOE. The report of the committee on the Posta* Service was brought up. It called attention to the cost of the existing services as being out of proportion to the revenue, but stated that the committee had not been successful in seeing any way to reduce the expenses. There were at present subsidies to the Panama and Suez lines, and two intercolonial services and one provincial. The revenue might however be increased by perhaps £15,000 by altering the postage on letters and newspapers. The report also referred to other matters, but the above were the most prominent. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. The item £3250, General Post-office, was agreed to with a reduction of £75. Conveyance of mails by sea, £65,300, passed without reduction. The item Telegraph Department, £21,980 4s, was agreed to, as were also the votes for the Marine Engineer's Department and the following Provincial charges :—Auckland, £7248 15s ; Taranaki, £929 15s; Wellington, £4791; Hawke's Bay, £1794; Nelson, £2484; Marlborough, £2019. On the item Canterbury, £19,568, Mr Beswick asked if his poor letter carrier in Kaiapoi could be re-instated, who had been : discharged from motives of economy. Why ; had Kaiapoi been selected of all the places in the colony to have, its letter-carrier discharged. r " ' The Hon. J. Hall ea»d that after the very touching appeal of the hon. member, which ' would move even a stone, the Government would take the case into its favorable con- i sideration. The Hon. E. W. Stappobd said that the late J Government had discharged the letter carrier | for the sake of consistency, as Kaiapoi was the only phice, not a capital town, which had a ] letter carrier. _ Mr Beswick—lt has a Mayor. [Laughter.] , An Hon. Member—And a mare's neat. The vote was agreed to; as were also the < following :—Otago, £17,031} and Southland, £3030. Mr Dillon Bell asked what would be the position of the Government with regard to the Defence estimates on one regiment being left in the colony free of cost, as appeared by the despatch circulated that day. On reading the despatch ho found that the condition on which the regiment was to be retained was, that £50,000 was to be spent for Native j purposes. The Hon. E. W. Stappobd said that not a shillingjmore would be spent than necessary. Mr Dillon Bell asked whether the regiment would be retained. The Hon E. W. Stafpobd said that he , believed that it would be, but he could not say anything exactly at present, and should ' have preferred that notice should have been ' given. The Chaibman then reported, and obtained - leave to sit again on Tuesday. OTAGO WASTE LANDS BILL. This Bill was advanced a stage in Committee. A long discussion took place as to the term during which the land should remain before being proclaimed into Hundreds, for sale at 10s; whether for three, five, or seven years; eventually the last number was fixed on a division. Ayes, 30; noes, 5. The House adjourned at twenty-five minutes past twelve till Monday.