AUCKLAND.

Press, Volume IX, Issue 989, 9 January 1866, Page 3

AUCKLAND.

MB- ;ITAO__ir*S i rjNTEBVrEW WITH W. THOMPSON* T&e '* Kew Zealand Herald," of the 28th<TufcV, the following article, w ¥?fc_!yas a very different account of expedition to Kawhai am * and interview with from that given by the v Swr&era Cross," which we published ™'SMauYlayVissue:— *®% a day or two of the return 5L -i*? 1 * 11 Commissioner Mackay =°» mfmt to any Native district, w 3**Mnre to find in the columns of °w contemporary a correspondent's ££?*/■** from that Particular disof «, ng the won a erful results °* toe .Coininis&ioners' negotiations. Ama has again been the case on the 2S? °f Mackay .from Raglan, 2?w_ th . afc gentleman had lately gone ™. the intention, if allowed, of pro- *£*£"£ pn to Kawhai. As many might be led to attach more than their jwi value to the statements made in •7 published in the "Cross" oS^''* 6 hasteu to present to the * raor ° f 6^*016 version, of Tgi may, state that these " further £W*aUtt_<* are gleaned from two jwwos received by Mr. Geo. Graham, 0 f the Kgatimaniapoto *noe t tj, e oae dated . Jftor the, 21st instant,-both from JV «wnai, and from a letter received

from the Rev. Wm. Barton, a Native missionary. The contents of those letters are also * borne out by the evidence of gentlemen who have also lately arrived from Raglan. On Mr. Mackay's arrival Rewi was close at hand, but the former gentleman was kept in conversation by a Native, until word was sent on to Rewi of his arrival. All the principal chiefs of Ngatimaniapoto at once left the place. It was when Mr. Mackav heard of this that he is said to have lost his temper, and so offended the Natives that they refused to allow him to pass beyond a certain line. Wm. Barton was sent after Rewi, and had a long conversation with him, which ended, however, in a point blank refusal to see Mr. Mackay. They stated, however, that they were willing to receive Mr. Geo. Graham and would write to him shortly, appointing a place of meeting. It is believed that had Mr. Rogan been sent to them instead of Mr. Mackay, they would have received him willingly. Mr. Graham also informs us that the letter of Wm. Barton distinctly draws attention to the report circulated by the Northern Natives, a notice of which has, we believe, been forwarded to the Government, that Rewi was mortally wounded after the battle of Orakau, and died shortly after that event. Wm. Barton himself saw and spoke to Rewi, whom he well knew, and his veracity may be relied upon. We are sorry to have had it so forcibly pointed out to us that the late visit to Raglan is likely to be attended with anything but the satisfactory results foretold by the correspondent of our contemporary. All that was wrong was aland quarrel between the Natives themselves, from which no serious alarm need have been apprehended, but which from European interference may now perhaps end far otherwise. The temper of the Kingites has been ruffled by this interference, and they were unsparing of their ridicule in addressing the Commissioner, asking who " that Pakeha" was that he should come to interfere between the tribes : one man telling him to begone—that he was a " gobbler," or turkey. As far as the Hau-haus at Kawhia were concerned, there was, it would seem, no wish on their part to provoke a war with the Europeans. Rewi's whole tone of conversation, when talking with Barton, was for peace. They are thoroughly dispirited, and will not seek war, though they may be driven into it. ■

~.~~w _.., ..„__, uuu mo luruier gentlel man was kept in conversation by a ' Native, until word was sent on to i Rewi of his arrival. All the principal • chiefs of Ngatimaniapoto at once left i the place. It was when Mr. Mackav , heard of this that he is said to have lost his temper, and so offended the Natives that they refused to allow him ■to pass beyond a certain line. Wm. i Barton was sent after Rewi, and had a long conversation with him, which ended, however, in a point blank refusal to see Mr. Mackay. They stated, however, that they were willing to receive Mr. Geo. Graham and would write to him shortly, appointing a place of meeting. It is believed that had Mr. Rogan been sent to them instead of Mr. Mackay, they would have received him willingly. Mr. Graham also informs us that the letter of Wm. Barton distinctly draws attention to the report circulated by the Northern Natives, a notice of which has, we believe, been forwarded to the Government, that Rewi was mortally wounded after the battle of Orakau, and died shortly after that event. Wm. Barton himself saw and spoke to Rewi, whom he well knew, and his veracity may be relied upon. We are sorry to have had it so forcibly pointed out to us that the late visit to Raglan is likely to be attended with anything but the satisfactory results foretold by the correspondent of ! our contemporary. All that was wrong was aland quarrel between the Natives themselves, from which no serious alarm need have been apprehended, but which from European interference may now perhaps end far otherwise. The temper of the Kingites has been ruffled by this interference, and they were unsparing of their ridicule in addressing the Commissioner, asking who " that Pakeha" was that he should come to interfere between the tribes : one man telling him to begone—that he was a " gobbler," or turkey. As far as the Hau-haus at Kawhia ' were concerned, there was, it would : seem, no wish on their part to provoke ; a war with the Europeans. Rewi's ' whole tone of conversation, when talking with Barton, was for peace. They : are thoroughly dispirited, and will not seek war, though they may be driven into it. ■ There are many points in the report alluded to which we cannot, m common ' justice to Mr. Graham, allow to pass unnoticed. Mr. Graham informs us that the suggestion therein reported as having been made by Thompson, " that the proper make an investigation into the causes of the war would be some foreign nation," is entirely opposed to all Thompson's previous ideas, and. is not such a one as it is likely would emanate from him. Thompson, Mr. Graham declares, has always considered his submission as absolute; and led to believe in the justice and protection of the Queen, has looked with respect to the British flag, which from that day to this has [been kept flying in his camp. It is j quite true, as said by Mr. Mackay, that Mr. Graham did promise to try and get an investigation instituted such as Thompson wished for. Mr. Graham maintains that he was fully justified in making this promise, by the following sentence contained in his Excellency's letter, authorising him to proceed on his mission to the Waikato in the cause of peace in May last: —" The Governor will receive at Auckland any deputation of chiefs that they may send to him ; such deputation shall be kindly received, and in every way well treated; and the Governor, who always has, and still takes the greatest interest in their welfare, will fully explain to them the future intentions of the Government, and trill hear any representation they may have to make." To say "that Mr. Graham was not a Government officer," if that statement was really made by Mr. Mackay, was not only far from being correct, but was most injudicious and mischievous in its tendency. Mr. Graham certainly is not a Government officer in one sense of the word; he does not hold half a dozen paid offices, some of them little better than sinecures; he never accepted colonial pay, and whatever services he may offer to the Colonial Government he gives them gratuitously; but he did not go to the Waikato as a private citizen. He was 'an accredited agent of the Government. He received personally from the then War Minister, Mr. Atkinson, a free pass by the Government steamers for himself and party —the Government telegraph wires were placed at his disposal, and, as we know, the monopoly of transmitting messages on the subject of his visit was granted him. Mr. Atkinson, and Mr. Mantell, the Native Minister, both knew of and approved the nature of his mission, and hrrally he received from his Excellency himself the following written commission, which in justice to himself, and for the benefit of the colony, he now places at our disposal ' — Private Secretary' Office, > - , s. i A«w? May 9, 1865. ExceEency theGovernor having been informed that there is a desire on the part of some of the Natives of Waikato, who have recently been in arms against us, that you should visit them in order to communicate to them the Governor's proclamation of the 17th December last, desires mc to inform you that he approves of your visiting them, and begs that you will take that opportunity of bringing prominently before them the following passage in his letter addressed toPene Te Wharepu and other chiefs, of Waikato on the 16th December, 1863, of which I have the honor to enclose you a copy i— " If the chiefs "of .Waikato desiro to know the line of conduct theGtJverudr will pursue towards them for the future if they now sub*mil to the authority of tlie Government, the ■ Geweruor will receive at Auckland any deputation of chiefs that they may send to him j , such deputation shall' be kindly received and in' every way well treated, and the Governor, who always has,, and still takes the greatest interest in their welfare, will fully explain to them the future intentions of the Government, and will hear any.representations they may have to make ; and they shall be allowed to return in peace to the place they . came from." J

His Excellency requests that you will further assure them again that he still continues to take, as he has always done, the greatest interest in their welfare, and that if they now give in their adhesion to the Government they will be treated with generosity aud kindness.

"I have the honor to be, sir, L j Your servant, ' j Feed. Thatcheb, Private Secretary. ' Geo. Graham, Esq., &c., &c, _c. Mr. Graham had volunteered his services in a similar manner to tho previous Government, and they had been accepted with satisfactory results, as evidenced in the case of the Natives at Tauranga. It is the very knowledge that Mr. Graham is not a paid ugeut of the Government that gives him in great measure the extraordinary influence he possesses over the Natives. There is 'another point, before we have done, to which we must refer. Mr. Mackay is made to say — As to Thompson's desire to maintain law and order, the Governor had given him an opportunity to do so at the great meeting at Taupiri. The Governor had proposed that the Natives should form a runanga, of which the King should be the head, but under another name. They were to make laws, and submit them to the Governor for approval. Thompson had rejected this offer, and preferred war. Thompson then came forward, and said the Governor had never made any such offer. Thompson was quite right. The Governor never did make such an offer to him. It was Thompson who _uade the offer to the Governor, and the idea of it was scouted both by the Governor and by Mr. Graham. Why, this very runanga is the thing the Natives want now—what they have all along wanted—and what the Government has persistently refused them. We are informed that a very unfavorable impression was created by the allusion made by Mr. Mackay to the Waikato, when he told Thompson he would be disappointed if he thought to get it back. Thompson looks on Waikato as gone, and it was in bad taste to have touched him upon, what must be a sore point, the loss of it. The native letters to which we have alluded are now being translated by an able Maori scholar, for transmission to ; the Government. We shall probably be able to lay copies before our readers in a few days' time, when the correct version of this, we fear much mismanaged affair, will be made public. NATIVE INTELLIGENCE. [From the "Southern Cross," December 7.] We have gleaned several items of Native intelligence to add to the foregoing, in reference to recent proceedings in Raglan and its neighborhood, which have been mor« or less before the public for some time past. It would seem that not a little exaggeration and misapprehension have got abroad in relation to these matters. The journey of the Civil Commissioner to the West Coast has been productive of the best possible results hitherto. He has settled many disputes between the King and Queen Natives, which, but for his interference aud management;, would doubtless have resulted in war between them before this. For some time past, the King Natives have been removing from the south side of. the Kawhia harbor to the north side, and distributl ing themselves amongst the friendly j Natives living about there and at Aotea. At first their number was not great, but they have latterly so increased as to cause just apprehension on the part of the Queenites. Indeed, they have been on the point of fighting several times. The rebels appropriate as much of the friendly Native property as they can lay their hands on. This, of itself, would be sufficient to lead to an outbreak ; but the Kingites go farther, and claim all the land south of the confiscated line, saying that Naylor and the Queen Natives must remove off the land south of Raglan harbor. The Governor's line must, be the boundary of the tribes who support the Queen. To this, when it was urged at the meetings held there, the Civil Commissioner stated that the Governor did not confiscate the land belonging to William Naylor and the loyal Natives, because they were his friends ; but the Governor would not allow the King Natives to usurp the lands on that account. The Government would support Naylor and his people in possession of their land. •This claim for land has been the principal sore ; and Naylor and his people had made up their mind to fight, and were quite ready to defend themselves. As the matter now stands, the friendly Natives on the north of Kawhia harbor have been advised to build houses and cultivate in one spot; and the Queen Natives north of Aotea have likewise been advised to group together and live in one place, thus giving them strength, and removing them from daily fear of molestation. It is not the fact that redoubts have been ordered to be built. On the contrary, the advice given was not to build pas, but to put up whares and remove as much of their crops as they could to the new settlements, and to cultivate there quietly. The King Natives knew of this, and made no objection. On the contrary, they promised to remove to the south of Kawhia, . should the King's people decide on attacking the loyal Natives. There was an inspection of arms, hut it was of the arms long since issued by the Government to the Queen Natives. = A wise precaution, we think, to ascertain whether any had been conveyed to the enemy, and in what order the arms were. About twenty stand have come up to Auckland for repairs. Indeed, it is but right and proper that every precaution should be taken to secure the peace of the district between Kawhia, Aotea, and Raglan — and that is best accomplished by being ready for war. If the loyal Natives cannot be allowed to remove their houses and cultivations, and even to build pas where they like on their own land, without the consent or fear-of offending Rewi and his fanatical followers, then it is a folly to say that; there is either security or ! peace' in such a slate of tilings.

Eewi declined to see Mr. Mackay, but expressed his intention not to decide what he should do for a couple of months, when he should have assembled the tribes from Taranaki, the Thames, and elsewhere. He would explain his views then. At present, he was considering the Governor's proposal. Rewi was opposed to the attack at the "White Cliffs, and as his first cousin, Te Kori, who was wounded and taken prisoner, went without his consent, he simply says, "Serve him right." Rewi, above all things, does not want to bring the war into the Mokau country; and he naturally thought the attack on the redoubt would have that result. The rebels have extensive cultivations, and abundance of food at Kawhia. The cultivations are easy of approach by water. It is doubtful whether, when the great meeting shall have assembled in February, the Natives, over estimating their strength, not try the chance of war once more; and therefore it is best to be prepared. If the Government would send a man-of-war into Kawhia harbor during this meeting'it might have a salutary effect. At all events, Rewi is not the man to lose an opportunity of doing mischief if he Can do so with any chance of safety. Pai Marirism, or fanaticism, is as rampant as ever. Tliey have now a prophet or god, Taikoraako, who is to do all that Te Ua failed to accomplish. This new prophet is also from Taranaki. Even William Thompson is a devout believer in this vile fanaticism. There is some change in the form of worship, the precise nature of which we do not know.

It was rumored at Kawhia, amongst the King Natives, that Kereopa, " the sword-bearer," had been seized by his own people, inland from the East Coast, and was bound by them to a tree. They had sentenced him to death on account of bringing such calamities on the East Coast tribes. Rewi, it seems, believed that the execution of Kereopa was certain. This, indeed, would be a strange but fitting close to his blood-thirsty career. The Civil Commissioner, Mr. Mackay, was about a fortnight amongst the King and Queen Natives at Aotea and Raglan, and held many meetings, at which all the questions in dispute between them were discussed. He has been absent altogether about five weeks. OTAHUHU MUUDER CASE. [From the " New Zealand Dec. 28.] "We are glad to acquaint our readers with the fact of the apprehension of the man Stack, said to be the perpetrator of the Otahuhu tragedy, viz., the diabolical murder of the widow Finnegan and her three sons. The facts as told are these :— Two persons, named respectively A. H. Derose and S.Price, were travelling last Monday week on the Great Northern road, in search of work, and soon after passing the New Lunatic Asylum, they observed a man lying asleep in the fern by the roadside. Upon their entering into conversatiqn, the stranger rose up, and said he was j on the lookout for work too, and would go with them. The night came on very dark and thick, and the-three consequently were compelled to camp in the bush ; on the following morning the three proceeded to Mr. Short's, at the Kaukapakapa, where thty succeeded in getting employment, and went to' work for a settler there on the Wednesday. On Christmas morning (Monday), Derose happened at breakfast time to take up a copy of the " New Zealand Herald," and amongst other items of news contained therein he quoted the remarks made upon the Otahuhu murder case. Stack then remarked to our informant aud'others in the room " that the people ought to make endeavors to capture the murderer, and put a rope round his neck." After breakfast Stack called Derose aside, and persuaded him to accompany him to the Wairoa, and from thence to go overland to the Bay of Islands, as he (Stack) knew lots of people there, and could easily get work. Next morning they started on their journey, intending to go to M'Leod's to take the boat to Wairoa. Here Derose's suspicion was aroused, for on the road they met two men, and Stack shyed off the track, saying they were " peelers," and he, did not like to meet them. Derose then *said—" What are you afraid of ? are you a deserter ? I am not frightened if you are." Stack j then hid in the scrub till the two men had passed, and' the party then proceeded on to M'Leod's mill, where they rested. Upon Stack asking how far it was to the Wairoa ferry, a "carpenter at work there answered him two and a-half miles, and at once recognised him as the murderer Stack. This carpenter was Sergeant Lloyd, late of the 65th Regiment, who knew Stack well, and at once took measures to apprehend him. Upon Lloyd asking Stack his name the latter replied, " James Johnson," Lloyd then said, " Your name is Stack, and I know you; this paper I now produce is an exact description of you, and would i convict you anywhere." Four of the workmen then surrounded Stack and apprehended him. On Tuesday afternoon the prisoner was brought before the Resident Magistrate, Mr. Rogan, andL upon his being asked whether he knew the nature of the charge brought against him, replied in the negative. Upon the magistrate telling turn that he was charged with the murder of Mrs. Finnegan and her two sons, he replied, in the most dogged manner " all right." i The prisoner was then remanded to Auckland for trial, and was brought j into town last evening, and safely; lodged in the lock-up. The witness Derose volunteered to come to town in order t<> give evidence against him, at the police Court this morning. Too much praise cannot be attributed to Mr. Commissioner Kaughton and the police force, for their energetic endeavors to capture this villain, and we are given to understand that it is entirely owing to.the wide-spread and accurate descriptions being circulated in the most remote districts by the Commissioner, that he has at last been apprehended and brought to justice.