HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Bruce Herald, Volume X, Issue 954, 2 November 1877, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Monday,, October 29

THE MINISTERIAL CRISIS

This afternoon, the No Confidence Debate was resumed. ,~ ...

Mr Shrimski saw nothing in Major Atkinson'a speech beyond a deßire to get back to; office.' He thought the manner in. which the present Ministry conducted the business was far preferable to that of the late Government. Major Atkinson used to set an exceedingly bad example f to the House when in office, and he might "learn a useful lesson from the conduct of his successors. The policy of the last Government was "give us a loan and let us alone." They had introduced an Education Bill, but 'they sadly needed education themselves in political kones»y and morality.

Mr Cartis Eaid it was-a remarkable thing that ail the speakers oh the other Bide asked them to consider Sir George Grey as a new man, and to forget all his past career and past speeches. Had he moved the vote which "Mr ; Larnach did, it would not have been carried, for his views, especially on Separation-, were well known. Every member ofthe Government "held" similar views,; and no Government which advocated Separation'should have his vote, nor couid he have confidence in the gentlemen who in office were willing to abandon the principles ' they had advocated in opposition. ■-■ So far from retrenchment, proceeding in the direction r#ommended by Sir George Grey, he thought it) would go in the other direction. In railways, for iustanca, the Committee now sitting would probably recommend a system of local management. . As to the proposed reduction of Ministerial salaries \ a similar policy had some years ago been adopted in the Nelson Provincial Government; An Executive afii into office on a cry of the kind, and it speedily ended in the salaries . of the members of the Government being raised instead of decreased. Sir George Grey did not venture zo say that the heads of departments were overpaid, but proposed to reduce their salaries simply because they could afford it. Tt would be a very uncourageous thing to reduce salaries which were already low in comparison to those paid in mercantile establishments. Sir George Grey last year had voted, against the seat of Government being retained at Wellington. He objected to Sir George Grey's proposal to form a separate goldfields department. Sir George Grey's declarations about representation- were also" unsatisfactory. He defended himself from the charges of inconsistency in 1868, which had been made by Mr DeLautour. He then reviewed his own political conduct upto the last session when Abolition was. carried. This session he had at a -meeting informed the Government he would vote against them, upon the colonialiaafcion ofthe land fund j but he remained silent while the resolution was passed by the meeting, promising the Government's _support this session. He assented to this as against the Grey party, but' soon after the .middle party was formed, and after full consideration, believing a change of Government desirable, ; he joined that party on the most distinct assurances that neither Sir' George Grey nor his immediate followers would either seek or take office. He therefore voted for the no-confidence . motion, and very soon after Sir George Grey, through his friends, expressed his desire to take office. He and others of the middle party at once refused to follow him, and promised to support Major Atkinson in the present motion,, which he hoped would be carried, and result in the formation of a really strong Ministry in which the country and House «ould have confidence. .[, Mr Evans Brown desired to know how many of those who, like Mr Curtis, had deserted the middle party, expected to be in the new Ministry. Rumour said four at least. Major. Atkinson presented a pitiable spectacle* seeking *o return to office by the votes of those who a fortnight before had declared him unfit' to hold oflice. and had turned him out,, declaring the late Government showed the maximum of political pro fligacy and the minimum of administrative That Sir George Grey should have hSo^difficulty in filling the Ministerial seats showed that the party *?as not hungry for office, but was supporting Sir George Grey from principle. Sir George Grey had no sham about him. He would not go in for sham finance, and would if left in office place before tbe country a real and fair istateof the position of the country, and boldly aßk it to do what was necessary to restore the public credit— whether it was to generalise the Land Fund or impose a property tax. He would himseljc vote for whatever was shown to be necessary to preserve our credit; He strongly condemned the Public Works administration of the late Government. When Mr , M'Lean, in Otago, pleaded want of money as a reason for delay in carrying on railways, then the real fact was shown. The present Government showed that j£33©,o(K) had been borrowed by the Public Account from the Public Works Account. That was the reason why money was short, and Otago had to complain of her railway works not being flamed on. Thus the whole railway system was as bad aa it could be. He quoted numerous instances strongly condemning the system as recommended by the Commission of heads of departments. The Jate Government left everything to their officials, Mr Sutton thought it quite fair to judge Ministers by their past utterances g,nd conduct without waiting for them to develops j any new policy. Sir George Grey's 1 states ' ments in the House differed from Colonel Whitmore'B in the Council in many points, especially in regard to the reduction of * salaries. The one announced a i'^dical, the other a. conservative policy. From the first the present Ministry did not possess the \ confidence of the majority of the House, fie maintained • that the Native telegrams were simply /sent to order. In any case these telegrams rieally meant that the Waikatos hoped to be able to get back their lands from the new Govern?nenfc, having failed to get them from the late one. He complained that the Southern land fund' was vanishing by the land itself being allocated for railways. Since the present Government took ofiice 750,000 acres Of land bad been thus appropriated for particular schemes, . . Mr Thomson ascribed the desire of Major Atkineoh to get hack to office to something akin to a cat's instinct of locality. : He reviewed at some "length the gravelling and other allowances received by tbejat.e Ministry during their term of office. - He reviewed also the policy of the late Government to show ; how, unfit they were to be restored to office; He urged It was only fair; to give thepreseht Government a trial to see whether they could nGt do better than jtheirprpr desessors. The conduct of the -Opposition on :-the/;.:present; motion was nnpre.ce--Rented in constitutional history, He bp-

lieved the country was proud of having Sir George Grey in his preseut position. He chd.racteri.scd Sir George Grt-y as tho old man eloquent who, more than anyone else, could influence. the public mind of the Colony, and who, if now driven from office, would speedily return with a" far larger following, who would be prepared.to follow him in far ihore liberal measures than his .present following might be willing to endoree. ; Thia consideration should bear weight with the members of Conservative tendencies. He. appealed to the spirit of fair play to allow the Government to bring down their policy. " " Mr Pox could not vole for Mr Reynolds's amendment. It was either too much or not enough. They had a Ministerial statement of policy before the House, and it waa as reasonable to ask the House. to . wait; for the Public Works and Native Statements as for the Financial Statement. It would be interesting to hear the latter, especially now Mr Slieohan intended to counteract the mischievous, ruinous, baneful influence of the repudiation policy which he had so zealously spread amongst the natives. Also, it would be interesting to hear the statement of the Minister for Lauds, and to learn how the big estates were to be burst up. As it .vas, however, they had. sufficient data before them .to decide on regarding the nature of the-,Minis-terial policy. Sir George Grey's general manner was tortuous, and not straight. Sir George Grey was persistently trying ■to -throw -dust in the eyes of the House., Sir George Grey ci .timed to be the liberal leader in the Hsuise', ; but the real advance guard was the oue which had produced the Public Works policy a<«d abolished Provincialism in tho country also. C done! Whitmore claimed to be Conservative, Sir George Grey was very anxious to restore two Provincial Governments' with a miserable General Government in Wellington, but he could not-and would not do it. It was absurd to talk of the Constitution, being destroyed because the Provinces had been abolished. What had really been done was to extend the liberties of the people, and provide a better means of local self-government.. .He ridiculed the idea of Sir George Grey being able to make any serious retrenchment in railway management. In all Sir George Grey's proposed retrenchment not a word was said about reducing the honorarium, because Mr Larnach last year had proposed to increase this to £300 a year.. It was also absurd to talk of making important savings by reducing the salaries of heads of departments and Ministers. Sir George Grey had the other night paraded a great discovery of the alleged liabilities of the Colony, whereas the whole of the figures had been on the table for three months, and were to be found in the late Treasurer's Financial Statement. He accused Sir George Grey of attempting to deceive Wellington by his profession of friendship for.it. He accused Mr Larnach of 'having distinctly promised Major Atkinson to support him through the session. Then as soon, as the Land Bill was brought down he turned round and became the bellwether of the other side.

Mr Larnach said Mr Fox was stating whatwas not the fact.

Mr Fox reasserted that he heard Mr Larnach at the meeting promise to support Major Atkinson for the session. It was when a liberal land law was brought down that he turned round. It was an extraordinary combination to find Mr Larnach now working with Sir George Grey, whose land policy of setting clas3 ay amst class was so well known. It was also extraordinary to find the advocates of the unity of the Colony supporting an avowed Separationist in office on the land question, and the unity of the Colony. It was impossible clearly to understand what the policy of the Ministry was. They were attempting to climb into autocratic power on the shoulders of the people. They were always profuse in promise, and always began by setting class against class. He quoted Jack Cade's promises to his followers as very applicable to Sir George Grey. Sir George Grey was the » l promising George" of New Zealand. He hoped the late Government would return to office in a few hours. The battle of abolition had been fought and won, but the new institutions were not yet in a satisfactory condition, and the most important duty of the new Government would be fio perfect the machinery of localfseif-goverameht. There would even be no mourning over Provincialism, and Now Zealand would have one of- the' best forms, of government ever bestowed on a democratic country. The next point for the new Government would be to proceed with public works, but prudently and captiously. There would be no difficulty in getting money so long as ifc was wisely spent. The unify of _the° Colony should be preserved, and the civil, moral, and intellectual improvement of the people should be encouraged. By legislation the whole country, and all in it, should be made prosperous without any distributions ' pr class favouritism.- ' There Bhould be no class legislation either Jn land or other things'.

Mr Ballance said it was quite worthy of Mr Fox to conclude by ridiculing a liberal land law. It was because Provincialism waa dead, and because they felt that Sir George Grey's principles (of which his Provincialism advocacy was only an accident) were those which they felt should rule the country, that he and others followed Sir Gaorge Grey, Those principles were not to be upset by mere ridicule, which s.een>ed the worst weapon Mr Fox could use against them. Had not Mr Fox, for years, been setting class against class ? There were some who thought greedy land sharks a more dangerous class than the publicans against whom a§ a class Mr Fox waged war. He denied that Sir George Grey endeavored to set class against class. Jf the Landfill was liberal, all its liberality had been introduced in the Wa3te Lands Committee. As the late Government brought it down it was a mere i .consolidation of existing laws, and raising the pri.ee. Ho was not at all frightened about the repudiation pry, and the miserable local squabbles in Hawkes Bay should exercise no influence on the general "poiicy. He accused Mr ; Fox of great inconsistency in. what he had said about Provincialism, as it was only in 1874 that he ceased to be an earners provincialist.. Sir George Grey might have be.enautojjwtic/ to those who had tried to over-reach him, but '-'he was never autocratic to the people, who knew ' well who was fcheir friend/ It was because of his broad anjd liberal vipwg that the people believed in Sir George Gj/ey. If a pijbUp works policy .. was simply,.' to aggrandise, large landowners, and enable land 'sharks and speculators to acquire vast estates, then certsiplv a public works policy was. not an jjnmixejd go^d. It was not fain of M»jor Atkinspn tobe constantly nagging at Government, and refusing them "the time which had been allowed Mr Gillies in 18?2, and" which Major Atkinson himself took last session to bring down their financial statement. -. Mr .GjUies .; jtopk/20 ; day's,. and Major Atkinson 1^ days, ahjf jy.et eyeji now Mr

Larnach had only been 16 days in office. It was to the Financial Statement that tho House and country looked to find the com plete policy of the Government. Major Atkinson refused actually to give 16 days to prepare. this. ,lt was most unjust ; to refuse Ministers the opportunity of bringing down their policy, and this opportunity was refused to satisfy a craving for another coalition Ministry.; He quoted precedents in the Imperial Parliament to show the unconstitutional conduct of Major Atkinson in bringing down such a 5 motion.' Under such circumstances, even if the vote were carried, could the other side carry- on the Government ? They would not have a working majority, and ihere was but one tribunal to appeal to, and that was the electorates, by means of a dissolution . Could Maj or Atkinson, if he got in now, expect any consideration from the Opposition? Unfairness would beget irritation,, . If turned out unfairly, his side of the House would not show any consideration. He had himself supported Major Atkiuson till the unholy alliance with Mr Whitaker v took place. He then reviewed the 'policy of the late Government in regard to Native lands and other matters, and also referred to the Manawatu transactions, and stated that since last October Mr Whitaker had obtained 18,00'J acres, out of a block of 200,000 acres, at 5s an acre, which was well worth £1. Mr Whitaker had taken advantage v of beng in office to obtain under pretences of exchanging spme.'lands to which; lie was entitled a blockof land which had cost the Colony £17,000. The 18,000 acres were the only valuable part ..-of.-' the ,200,000 acres. Mr Whitaker' s proper course, if ho had any claim for compensation, should have been to have come to the House for it instead of settling- with himself in land/ He thought the Colony should keep clear of rings and the Banks. Yet at present the Colony owed the Banks a million and a half on short dated debentures. This gave these institur tions a dangerous power, and injured our credit abroad. He condemned the finance of the late Ministry in proposing to borrow.money to make up the land fund to be taken . from Otago as most unsound. The whole finance of the late Government was anything but a farseeing one. It proposed generally to borrow enough for immediate wants, but to get this they would probably have to promise not. -to borrow any more, for a certain time. How then were they to carry on P He- hoped that if the present Ministry were defeated their constitutional right to a dissolution would be recognised and a dissolution'be given.' He quoted authorities to show that this right existed. Sir George Grey was entitled to an unconditional dissolution. The history of the late crisis in New South Wales showed this. He looked forward, with confidence to the future, whatever the result of the present motion. Mr TraVer3 felt it his duty to vote against Sir George Grey's Government in consequence of the views which Sir George Grey had intimated last year as the result of long study and conviction — views which were not likely to be abandoned. He would have supported Sir George Grey had he positively declared that neither directly nor indirectly would he seek to impair the unity of the Colony. Had such a statement been made he would have accepted it ; but it had not been made, but, on the contrary, had been carefully avoided. If he had a distinct and plain assurance such as he desired he would not do anything to restore to office a Government which had so failed in its duty aB the late Government.

Mr Nahe supported the Government. Mr Wakefield remarked that the late Go vernment had smashed up the Provinces, but had never endeavoured to consummate the change by making other provisions for local government. _ All over the Colony the utmost confusion prevailed. He narrated instances iv the Christchurch Gaol and • Timaru Hospital as showing how matters were neglected by the Government. Since Abolition they had cared for nothing but to keep their seats at all hazards. If Provincialism had been left alone, he believed, ardent Abolitionist as fie had been, that the Colony would have been in a better position now. He had never heard so weak a speech pn so great an occasion as Major Atkinson's. As to the sneer about Mr liees being Attorney-General, he thought Mr Rees would be no bad exchange for Mr Whitaker in that office. He thought the present Government had during their short tenure of office shown energy and vigor in administration, and had gained public approval by looking after affairs themselves instead of leaving the Under-Secretary to govern the country. He severely criticised Mr Ormond's management of Canterbury railways,, which had put an entire stop to all carriage of stock on them. TJ} c late Ministry owed whatever chance of regaining office tfiey had to the apostacy of Mr Gisborne and a few others.

Mr Howe intended lo vote against his colleague in the representation of the Thames. He denied that Sir George Grey h.eld oflice by the will of the majority of the House!' He had simply ouj>manceiivered the middle party, and obtained ofiice by false pretences. There was no unity of principle between Ministers and their supporters'.