MR. WELD AT CHRISTCHURCH.

Bruce Herald, Volume III, Issue 91, 28 December 1865, Page 5

MR. WELD AT CHRISTCHURCH.

[Continued from our last.] « Mr. Crosbie Ward claimed the right to be heard, and would not be under an obligation to any man inusuch a matter. [Cheers and hisses.] On the night referred to, the colleague of the man who has just spoken— [Great confusion, groans, and hisses, 'mingled with, cries of ' calL him gentleman.' Mr Ward— l don't deny that )Ir Weld is a gentleman. Well, then, the colleague of Mr Weld (Major. Atkinson, the Defence Minister) has accused his (Mr Ward's) nearest and .dearest friend, and old colleague, Mr Dillon Bell, with having deliberately sent out an escort to be murdered. It was when' such language was uttered respecting "his friend that he rose, and if he did speak strongly, it was because his friend and> r late colleague had been so unjustly attacked.- He (Mr Ward) said that it was the peace proclamation of ' 3lr Fitzgerald that prevented those mnrderers from being. brought? to justice, and it in the heat of the moment, when hearing his friend and colleague attacked,, he had used improper expressions, he was willing at once to withdraw them;. [Cheers ■■ and hisses.] ■ • ; = Air Weld- — Mr Ward has. admitted the truth of. what I said, and he has given a reason why he acted on the unguarded impulse of the moment. I say it is a credit j to him for admitting it, but with regard to the reason he has given I think that he is wrong in it. If j had thought that Mr Dillon Bell's personal character had been, attacked, I should have been the first to defend him, for I have known Mr Bell longer than Mr Ward has known- him, and I can only now suppose that the language used on the occasion I have inferred to, arose out of a romantic and chivalrous mistake on the part of the lion, gentleman. [Laughter.] But to return to the removal of the troops. When the answer came from England, there was a difference be- '■ tween his Excellency and General Cameron. The Governor was then at Auckland, and had not even the advantage of consulting with his ministers ; but as soon as he came down, within twelve hours of his amval in Wellington, he stated that the arrangements made for taking the We'reroa pa had. been opposed by the General. The ministry J:hen advised the Governor to' fro down and take the pa himself, and his Excellency went down and did take it. [Loud cheers.] . The advice given by the ministers was no act ofimpertinerice to the General. They found that the country could not afford an expenditure of some thousands a month for the use of the troops j which the General said was necessary to j take that pa,' and- so they tendered the ad- j ,vice to his Excellency which was so sue- ' cessfully acted on. . The same policy had been carried out with regard to the East Coast. Wei were offered a regiment to go tip there> but we said, 'No ; we willdo it with our own men ;' and what has been the result ? I ask any gentleman whether there has ever been such a sories of successes as those which attended 1 the carrying'out of the policy of the late Govern-, tnent on the East "Coast— a Government which was the first to employ the services of colonial troops, assisted by a native contingent. I say, that we have endeavored to economise as much as possib>le % We found the -country deeply in debt,, and hound hand and foot to the bank. We ] left the country put of •- debt. And yet some hon. gentlemen say, * You know nothing of finance.' We have raised New Zealand. from a state of contempt to a posijion of responsibility, and yet somehow gentlemen said, /You know nothing of finance.' There has. been a great deal of. nonsense used in the public prints. One. argument I trsed in a, memorandum I wrote to the Home Government respectingour policy, .was that we proposed a colonial defence force of 1500 men, .the cost of which was estimated at LI 80,000. That sum was generally spoken of as L 220,000. There was a little discrepancy, between that sum and the sum I named. I, however, will say that we could better afford to pay that money than Uv maintain 10,000 or 15,000 troops in the colony. (Oheers.). It has been stated in a public, print that in my reply to Mr RusselLl said we could not do with less than 1500 men. I have looked over the reports in the Wellington papers, one of which is, and the other is not, quite so correct, and in of those am I reported as having* said so. When I wrote that memorandum,; and put the number qf men down at 1500, 1 flirt so under military

.advice. My own opinion is, however, that we could do with less than 1500, and that is also the opinion of Major Atkinson ; and when I consider the successes which have been achieved. on the East Coast with only. 500 'men and a few nativesj I think lam justified in my opinion: What have we done with that force ? We have taken pas; Major Fraser took one pa with sixty men, and whilst he was away,- thirty men left behind went and took another. I confess when hon. gentlemen told me that an ensignin the British army knew more than I did, I felt a little modest. It may be a weakness, but at any, rate we went on with it and took the pas ;. and when we had done that, ; I threw, away ? false modesty, and I say we have achie.ved.it, and I do not care what General Cameron or any oiie else says, for I say that with 300 or 400 men we have taken pas, cleared the most - populous district in New Zealand, and have carried the war into the midst of it, and, having done that, then I say we are not to be laughed at. (Loud and prolonged cheers.) The proof of the pudding is in the 'eating of it. When my hon. friend, Mr Cracroft Wilson, said, on one occasion, that lie could go through the country with 1000 Ghoorkas, there were many men who laug-hed at him, but I did not do so. Still I saw all kinds of greift men laughing at him, and I thought there might be something- in this laugh. But could any man stand up noWj and say that that was a vain boast, and that it was not .true? Can any man doubt it 1 (Cries of, no.) When Colonel Fraser, with fewer thon 400 men, less accustomed to the bush" than Ghoorkas, has driven the natives out of their pahs, and followed them up, and taken as many of them prisoners as the whole body of men who opposed General' Cameron with his" 5000 or 6000, troops ? (Laughter.) Every-, body knows, or should know, ' it does not need anything I can say to impress on people my respect for the British army, but thoug-h X say this, I an not to be. taunted as a Utopian or a wild dreamer because I bave said chat these things could be done. Not because I suppose that colonists are better men than those of our blood in the British army, but because I know that if you train any set of men to a particular work, and their officers are playing a political game instead of doing their work as officers should, then I know that neither they nor their men could achieve it. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Well, now I am going* to say a few words with regard to financial arrangements, and I must take some credit to the late ministry, to 1 Mr. Fitzherbert — (applause)— who made the most able treasurer that New Zealand has produced — (hear and cheers) — for putting the treasury into an absolutely different, position to that in which it was. before. I understand that now there has been some economy in the treasury— (laughter) — but j at all events from the time we went into office you have had your accounts brought up to the latest 'moment, and published in every item instead of the old system, which was in existence, when I had a million and a-half put down before me to be signed with my name. There were five or six accounts made up in a lump amounting to a million and a-hal*, and put down in the ordinary way, and the minister wrote his name, as a matter of course, across them. That was the old system, but we changed that. Every month we had our items down ifi such a way . that every ministry coming into office after us can say — " Why did you on such a day or such a month spend such an item ?" We tried a little to remedy the old systjm, which was a very grand systeni of finance— -(laughter) —and to the finance of the colony under your control; and remember, if you do; not look after your finance, it is all nonsense: to ; talk about, government And, now. with regard to the: native policy — a subject, which is not only" very interesting in itself, but also one •which affects your pockets. . What did we do with regard to it ? ,We said to the natives with one hand, if you commit outrages' and murder we will not send an army to commence a war with you, but we will sendthirty or forty fellows who will follow you up to your own fastnesses and take you and hang you; and on the other side; if you choose to submit, we are going to treat you teirly, and give you fair rights and privileges. We consfder it is only half the work of a government to repress outrages; the: other and the nobler half is to open the door of mercy; and it was that to which I alluded at an earlier period of the evening, for if you shut those, doors

of mercy, if you refuse to be generous, and have the power in .your hands, and if you refuse to those men the hope .of amalgamating- with us, then what you have to do is to exterminate them, and to pay for it too. But not even if it cost nothing, would I g-o in for such a system. From the earliest day in which I took a part in New Zealand politics, I saw it would be a noble thing for us to save a remnant of this unfortunate people, even -, if it were only hundreds. (Cheevs.) lam glad at that cheer. When I have heard people say that the colonists of New Zealand are a. bloodthirsty people, I have always denied it; I know what you want, and not only you but the men ot the North too, the outlying- men — nnto t the contractors, remember— (laughter)— but the country settlers ; they do not want to allow outrages to be perpetrated, but ask only for fair play between man and man, and they do not want to wrong a native. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) This native affair is, after all, a North Island one ; the Middle Island has taken upon itself a great, burden; it has rather been humbugged "'into taking- it; it has been cajoled -,out of the three million loan, and has been rather unwary when it lee go upon th<; promise of getting it back again out of the land which the present Government has ■■ given to Auckland for nothing. ' But we did think that the Middle Island was not to' go on for ever with this expenditure, for it cannot do it, and in every measure tlie Government carried out it acted on this principle. Well, my hon. friend, Mr. Fitzgerald, brought do-vn a. bill by which he would have got at those native districts, which are no more a part of the Province of Auckland than this roof is part ot.Kamschatka. . He proposed to cut off those purely native districts, which are in no way connected with Auckland ; and, which is a curious thing, both the natives and Europeans who inhabit a part of it, petitioned that it should be connected with Hawke's Bay. He proposed to cut them off, and take the revenues from those dis^tricts to pay for the native government. (Hear, hear.) Well, our economical! Mends, you" know, did not like, that-^---those; like ; my honourable friend, who have the interests of the South very much at heart. (Laughter, and ' hear, hear.') They would not hear of it, and' the thing was thrown out. I ask you to remember this, that it is only on such grounds as that— making the native districts pay for the native expenses, . that you can either do justice to the natives, and give them a chance to elevate themselves, or that you can save your own pockets, Therefore you have two views — you have the one view which is generally called the sentimental view, but which I call honorable and just and right, and which is to raise the natives and give them | a chance; you have got the other view,which is called, I believe, the practical view — to save your own pockets. Although all this was in favor of the proposition of \ my hon. friend, there were little combi nations that would not allow this to take place. I ask you when you havo got the duty before you to look after your own in- | terests,- and. after the interests of New ! Zealand, not to return at the next election ; gentlemen who look after little combina- ' tions. (Hear, hear.) Well, I daresay I have talked enough of whafc we did when we were in office, and I shall be glad to answer any questions; and now I shall speak of the reasons that induced us to- go outi We went out on this ground simply. We had always -said that we had no particular desire to be in office, but that we would go out if we did not get thorough good support, and we did not get tlfat support. It is an easy thiag for any man to keep in .office; If I wished to; do so by what you may call dodging in political life —[laughter]— it would have been extremely easy to do it. [Renewed laughter.] hut when I took office I said- 1 did- not wish it, and that I would/bnly hold office when I was called upon by the voice of niy fellow colonists. (Applause.} That was. the ground I took ; I never, bow myself to keep office by dodging-^-(laughter.)— for remember \ we gave fair warning that if we were' unsupported we would go out. After that, when we are told- -that we went out too soon, and that we ought to have stood a little kicking, I merely say I am not in office to satisfy or, please myself.; ..; It is ill very well, to ask me to. stop in -office, but I am not going to stop in -office and be kicked too. (Cheers and laughter.) That, is the reason I went out/ and Vega ve them

, fair warning what we should do. Before AT at \£^ the same Q^estidn about which Mr. \Vard has spoken a little ago— on the question of peace, they*- carried,' a vote against us-(hear, hear,)~and;i' suppose those g'entlemen.whoisuppoptednhat vote werenot very, anxious to see an end to the war, and one would iJiave thought they would have been g-lad to pay for it. On that occasion IVent into the House and said If you do not rescind the vote I shall ffo out ofpffice.'U They did so, but .after that they could not say they had no fair warning., .1 will teil you another reason. //We wished to get the £36,000 of taxation off us,- but we knewjrery well that if we could go home and say that the colony has further means, and is not afraid ot giving i these means to its government, then we knew that themonied men would say our security was good. We knewbesides it would be probable that the* Home Government would say we had put our shoulders to the wheel to help ourselves. I would not; ask for any great assistance from- the overtaxed people of England.;. they might have given us what would not have cost them a farthin ff _ an d given us a guarantee which would have been as good for us. On these ground* we thought it necessary to avoid future taxation, because you all know in your busmess if you find yourselves in difficulties and debt,, you do not think of savin omoney by a little silly economy, which will ruin your profits. We found we had not the support of the country, and for that reason, we resigned. I, for one would not occupy any public position— for I do not care for a public position, I am quite ready to go home to look after my private affairs—but I will not come forward for a public position unless I find that the colony supports me.' Now with' regard to the present state of things ; and perhaps I had better, say a little about separation (Hear, hear, and applause.) flow I ask you one thing : When you are going to return your members— although I utter a platitude— choose honest men. I am not talking, of course, about honest men in their private capacity, for you would not choose a man who was not so apd you Would generally judge no doubt that a man who looked after his own affairs pretty well, and had a business eye to hisown affairs, without a tendency to meanness or 'dishonest actions, was, as far asthat goes, generally safe. -But if you want to choose an honest man, politically speaking,. compel him to show his colors; that is what I want you to makp your separation friends do. Ido not think they have done that ; they have never told medistinctly on what grounds they vote for separation. (Hear, hear.) I want to know that, and I will then listen to them. Let them not talk bunkum about this man being chivalrous, or that man a good accountant, but let them lay a plan before you; On any occasion on" which I have come forward, on 'any political question,. I have always put my views before you,, because I am not afraid of being beaten. (Cheers.) Why should a man be afraid of that? I think a beaten cock a very respectable animal, if he fought well: I am nofc afraid of being- a; beaten cock,, though I suppose I may consider myself one now. (Laughter and cheers.) One. of the difficulties, of this country is that, men will not. come forward. and speak, toyou. I believe that we should not have been turned out of office if men had not been afraid of their constituents. I for one am not afraid of my constituents, or of any men whom I have the honor to addrees; I speak to. them with great respect, and I believe sufficiently in the ultimate good judgment of my -fellow- colonists asto take a snubbing from them,, without bearing one atom of ill-will on account ot* it. But when I am put forward in theposition of a public man, and. not for purposes of log-rolling, but. to., lead,. I am 'ia; the position of an officer, taking the standard in my hand, and leading the way. If. you tell me I am wrong* and am mistaken,, then I return, and fall into-, the ranks again.' (Cheers.) When men come forward and" talk about separation, I advise you to ask them what they mean by it. . If men-come forward arid pledge- themselves to vote, for separation, solely on the ground that your land revenue is to be kept intact, and that you are: td.be. free for ever. from, the ]North, then, I say,, they have an argument to fight with, 'and, one. worth considering^ though, at the same. l time, I have; a thou--sand to bring* • against' it. But ; if yiiol