TERRITORIALS, PAY.

Auckland Star, Volume LVIII, Issue 226, 24 September 1927, Page 10

TERRITORIALS , PAY.

BURDEN ON EMPLOYERS. PROBLEM FOR DEPARTMENT. SHOULD AWARDS BE ALTERED. (By Telegraph. — Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, Friday. "Does the Minister of Finance not think that money paid to territorials in camp should be paid to their employers to compensate them for losses they sustain owing to employees' absence?" asked Mr. Qirling (Wairau) in the House to-night. He pointed out that, under the Shops and Offices Act, employers were bound to pay wages to their employees during periods of training in camp, and employees were quite well off, because they received military pay in addition. Mr. McCombs (Lyttelton) objected to the agitation, which, he said, had been started by employers. The four shillings pay which territorials received was, after all, little more than pocket money. What the member for Wairau suggested was no remedy. A better thing would be to pay territorials adequately, and cast the whole burden on the State. It would be unfair to deprive the men of their military pay, because they were rendering service which was distasteful to many of them. In addition, they gave many evenings free throughout the year. "I hope," said Mr. McCombs, "that the Minister will give no encouragement to this agitation which employers have started. I suggest that these difficulties in connection with military training can be overcome if the people of New Zealand support the resolution of the Presbyterian Church against compulsory service, and stand behind the Labour partv, which is opposed to conscription, 'in any case the present system is very unfair, becau*e two-fifths of eligible young men w*j» tae,r military obligations because ™ r- °° from trai ni"g centres." Mr. Girling, in reply, said he thought it would be a good idea if employer* vrere extinpted from paying wages while men were in carnp.

Mr. I>* (Auckland East): The employee may be earning 10/ & day, bul in camp he gete only' 4/, B0 he "woulc lose six.

Mr. Girl in?: I'm quite in favour of Mel getting the mi me }av in camp as at any! other time, »>ut under the present arrangement, he in getting luJlitary pay in addition. Mr. M'."< oinbe thoujrlit Mr. Girljuv'g amended eujrjjfhticoi va* better, but ouly very fclightly letter thuti t.he first one. If tram** B were to Jo>-e tlu-ir uiiliiarr pay the people uf Sevt Zealand would not look up"" it- a* fatuurable. Mr. i/UOimhs did not thijjk it would bu t> popular euggeetioa ia the Wairau eltn;torate. Mr Girling: Tβ not worrying a.bmii

An Unpopular Proposal. Mr. McCombs said he would welcome a proposal that camp pay at the same rates as the trainee received in civilian life be paid by the State. "I'd like to see the cost of military training go up, and the anomalies multiplied. The system would be bound to break down if the Defence vote went up. The whole thing is on a rotten foundation now; it would only have to be tampered with, and it would break down and crumple up. The employers' demand has got a semblance of fairness, but a proposal that employers should collar a boy's pocket money would be vevry unpopular." Mr. Holland (Leader of the Opposition) said one aspect had not been mentioned —that of trainees who did not receive their civilian wages whilst in camp. The man who lost six shillings a day had a greater grievance than an emplayer who had to pay wages to trainees. "If there is any readjustment," he said, "it should be on a fair basis. The State should foot the bill for payment in camp, and the employee should not lose by going into camp." Government Cannot Interfere. The Minister of Defence (Hon. F. J. Rolleston) said it was a difficult problem. The Defence Department paid trainees 4/ a day, and provided board and lodging, while men were in camp, and in a majority of cases employers were also paying wages, in some cases it was optional, but most employers paid. In the case of indentured apprentices it was difficult to see how the indenture could be altered. If an award provided for payment it was difficult to see how the Government could interfere and alter the provisions. Also, it would not be fair to deprive men of military payment because they received civilian .wages, while other men were paid military payment. Discontent would be raised among trainees if this were attempted. All must be treated alike. Of course, if an award provided for payment it was open to employers to go to the Arbitration Court" and get the period of military training exempted from payment. As things stood now, the Minister could not

sop whnt the Government could do. and ho did not think legislation could be introduced to vary the terms of existing, awards. He admitted that in some areas there wore men escaping training, but he saw no way of avoiding it, as the matter was one of expense. These non-

effctive areaa wore in remote coamtrr districts, and the evr»ense extending training to them would be too creat. I>3ubtles9. th« member for Lyttelton yould -welcome the extension, because the expense would break down the jrtfertiTenew of the whole defence system.