THE POLICE.

Auckland Star, Volume XLIV, Issue 180, 30 July 1913, Page 8

THE POLICE.

SHOULD THE ASSOCIATION EXIST ? AN ADAMANTINE MINISTER. (By Telegraph — Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, Tuesday. The Police Association received further attention in Parliament to-night when the Police Force Bill was considered in committee.

Mr. Veiteh suggested that the Minister had taken up an attitude in regard to the Police Association which would be disastrous to the discipline of the force. He seemed to assume that tha purpose of trade unionism was to subvert discipline. How was the Minister to ascertain the reasonable requirements of the force unless he allowed the men to discuss their grievances 'i If this were not allowed, the men would be represented by irresponsible agitators, who did not represent the management. He remembered that at the inauguration of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants the founders were moved from place to place, and their agitation re garded officially as a conspiracy against the management, but the railv.avnien persevered, and their society had grown to be the hest organised, the most successful, and the largest union in New Zealand. It had been an enormous influence in defending pubr.e safely regarding the running of trains, and a good margin of safety where track naaintenance and bridge construction were concerned. He assured the Minister that there was no danger to discipline in recognising the Police Association.

The Hon. Mr. Herdman replied that there was no analogy between the police force and the railway service. The force must be in much the same position as the army —highly disciplined. If it was right that the police could combine as a trade, union, it would be equally right for the army or navy to organise on trade union lines. Supposing a great labour upheaval occurred in New Zealand, who would control the force if it was organised as a trade union? It would be the. secretary of a trade union, instead of the Commissioner. The great bulk of the country policemen and the older men in the cities were content. They resented interference of a number of agitators. If the Association were formed and governed by Mr. Rosser, or some other Labour leader, discipline would be weakened and the public, endangered. The police could represent their grievances through the Public Service Association.

Mr. Veitch agreed that a ridiculous, or, perhaps, a dangerous position would be created if the Police Association federated itself with an outside organisation, but the Minister could prohibit this, as was done with the railway servants.

The Minister: In time, of trouble the condition would not be worth the paper it was written on.

Mr. Veiteh pointed out that the railway servants withdrew from the Unity Conference because tbey did not desire to be- concerned with an organisation which would involve them in a strike. Policemen, like railwayraen, had their superannuation to think about. Evidently the Minister was airaid of the police being controlled by outsiders. What the Minister had done had forced them to engage an outsider as a secretary.

Dr. Newman urged tha£ the Minister should effect a rapproaebwient, and not force the association to exist secretly. Police associations were allowed in other parts of the Empire.

"It is incorrect to say that police associations arc allowed to exist in other countries. In London -an association exists for social purposes only, declared the Minister. GENUINE OR INSPLREB. Mr Young (Waikato) expressed the opinion thai it was only fair that the police should have some orcanisation through which they might put their grievances. He also thought a compulsory retiring age should be fixed, both to keep up the standard of efficiency in the service and to encourage young men to look forward to advancement.

The Minister, in answer to Mr Veitch, said the men had never sent in an application to the Department for permission to form an association.

Mr Veitch: That is a remarkable admission, in view of the fact that the whole business has been ventilated in the newspapers. (Opposition laughter and applause.)

The Minister explained that the only application of the kind suggested may have been made at Auckland. He told the men there that any time they wished to discuss their grievances they could appoint men at the different centres to place their grievances before him through the local superintendent and commissioner. The men could either meet together and discuss grievances, or in the case of individual members the man could forward his complaint direct.

Mr Bradney (Auckland West) said that in his opinion the whole business had been engineered from without the force to embarrass the Government. So far "as his district was concerned, he could assure the Minister that practically the whole of the people were behind him.

How, asked Mr Witty, did the Minister expect ln-en to go along with grievances if they were told by the Commissioner that they could leave if they were dissatisfied with their conditions. Mr Rosser was merely organising the union. Unless the men respected their superiors, the whole force would become disorganised. They must be treated like human beings, not like serfs. (Liberals: Hear, hear.)

" Was the appointment of Mr. Rosser, a labour agitator, -as organiser by the police likely to inspire the Minister and the House, with confidence?" demanded Mr. Nosworthy. He believed there was too much political electioneering work underlying this police disturbance. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)

Mr. Isitt, while deprecating the filling of an official position iv the police association by an outsider, yet he considered that some such society should certainly receive recognition, providing it had no connection with any outside labour movement. The Hon. Mr. Herdman repeated that he had no objection to members of the police force joining the Civil Service Association. They could then collectively diacuss their grievajjees. He contended, further, that since the present Government came into power no body of men had been treated with euoh consideration as had the police. POLTTTOAL ORIGiLN. A good, deal of the trouble, continued Mr. HeTdman, !had a. political origin. Mr. EB: Yon should grw*> your grounds .tor «o aettoos an «"—^tf— y Tie-"Minister replied tb»t""si« -wnm not

blaming any member. The trouble™*, have a pohtical origin outside t??* ment. Every possibg effort t3*& made to meet the men's iiS? and he had the word rf superintendent that new ».„--*• tions in the force so fav? ura l" c «»*• . ihe Prime Minister said he \ ~. highest regard lor the loyalty 1, the of the force. He hones^ie^? 1 newspapers were lar<*eW J.. :, ed *™ .he pVeLnt f ° r look at the attitude of the newspapers in thedutyofthcoiveSnSYotJ.^ men as far as was and he was satisfied that the CT ment had performed its duty &"££ respeci. * n 'hsi

Seven clauses were put throu«h «,i progress was reported. The at 12.50 a.m. rO;C