REFORM OF THE LORDS.

Auckland Star, Volume XLIII, Issue 207, 29 August 1912, Page 4

REFORM OF THE LORDS.

CONCLUSION OF DEBATE. (By Telegraph.—Press. Association.) WELLIN'GTOX, Wednesday. The debate on the Legislative Council dection Bill was continued in the egislative Council to-day. Hon. J. D. Ormond urged that the icond reading should be passed, but iid the Government should hold the .easure over until the people of the luntry became familiar with its proviions." On the whole, the Legislative ouricil had been useful, but it was rerettable that only one class of people id been drawn upon for members. One t the things that had produced the dere for reform of the Council was the ise of Hon- Ed. Richardson, who voted gainst a Liberal measure and was not ;appointed by the Seddon Government. Hon. E. C. J. Stevens said the Council ad done a great deal of good work in ie past, but it was no longer a real olitical force. It was a pleasant place D belong to, having social advantages nd privileges, but it had not the symithy of the Dominion and possessed no srce. The attitude of the Government Dr twenty years past had practically -tinguished origination in public mat3rs on the part of the Council. His ob;ct in supporting the Mil was to retore the Council to its former position f political and legislative force. It was, owever, impossible to make anything f the two constituency proposal. He elieved the best thing to do would be 3 adopt the system of an electoral col:ge, consisting ci the sitting members I the House of Representatives and hose remaining after vacancies have een created. Hon. H. D. Belli-. That is Government omination again. Mr. Stevens: No; there is no norcinaion about it. I believe you will never let a better system. It will produce larmony between the Houses, and I ope that it will be adopted. (Apilausc.) lion. W. Beehan said his view was loniinataon or total abolition. He .greed that the two Chambers sitting ogetber to fill vacancies in the Council mounted to Government nomination, fe was against the bill in every shape md form. He believed strongly in a lominative system- The Government of he day should be prepared to take ttte responsibility of appointments. Hon. YV-. H. Tucker oaid the fact that .he Chamber had existed for fifty years without serious change might be taken ls indication that no great change was required ''Abolish the Lords," was a :ry as old as the hills in England, and jet it had not taken place. He held ;hat members of the Council were already elected by the people. He did not .hink direct election by the people A-ould promote independence in the Council, and he feared that the farmers jrould not receive adequate representation under this bill, s-s they were too ousy to worry about organisations and anions. Hon. Mr. Bell: They have the Reform party. Hon. 0. Samuel: And this is what they jetHon G. Jones: They ask for an egg an jet a scorpion. Hon. Mrl Tucker expressed his intention to vote against the measure. Hon. H F. Wig-am said he favoured in elective Council, and would vote for the second reading. Hon. A. Baldey said he would support the second reading, but he would oppose the clause providing for only, two electorates, lie thought this clause was against tie " interests of the smail farmers, Hon. 0- Samuel said he would oppose Mt. Rigg's amendment, although he would also oppose the second reading of the bill He joined Mr. Ormond in the request to the Government to give the oonsLiti.onr.ics a chance to consider the proposals in the measure. The clamour against the nominative Chamber was due to the action of Sir Harry Atkinson in appointing seven new councillors immediately after the. result of a general election, in which the Atkinson party was defeated. The seven years' limit was enacted to lessen that clamour. Today the clamour was not. so pronounced. Since the Seddon Government's time no Councillor had been approached 'with a request to vojte iv a certain direction upon any particular measure. He thought the best scheme was election by members of both Houses. Hon. T. Thompson admitted that the people of the Dominion desired some change in the system of appointment to the Council, but the biill went beyond tihat- He thought Mr. Rigg's amendment was an act of discourtesy to the Government, and he would not support it. He hoped the Government would consider Mr. Ormond's suggestions. Hon. B. Harris thought there was no public demand for reform, but the present Government, having no one else to sacrifice, had fixed on the Council. He strongly objected to the size of the two proposed electorates. The Council adjourned at 9.15 p.m.'"