RELIGIOUS TEACHING IN SCHOOLS.

Auckland Star, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 258, 29 October 1907, Page 6

RELIGIOUS TEACHING IN SCHOOLS.

DEPUTATION TO THE PREMIER.

THE PEOPLE MUST DECIDE.

(By Telegraph.—Press Association.)

WELLINGTON, Monday. About 30 gentlemen, representing the New Zealand Citizens' Bible-in-State Schools League, interviewed the Premier to-day upon the providing of Bible lessons in the State schools of the Dominion. The Hon. George Fowlds (Minister for Education) was also present. Mr. Aitken, M.H.R., in introducing the deputation, said it represented various school committees throughout the' Dominion They wished to hear a definite statement from the Premier on the subject of Bible-reading in schools. Mr. J. P. Burley (president) said the league wished to see legislation brought forward to reintroduce the Bible into the State schools. The impression had prevailed that the clerics had been reponsible for the agitation, but tbe league indicated that a considerable body of laymen were interested in promoting the movement. The league claimed' that it was right that there should be some form of religious instruction in the elementary schools. It wished to see the Bible introduced into the schools and read as a classic, and desired that the only explanations given should be geographical. A conscience clause should be included in the legislation enabling either scholars or teachers to be excluded from the lessons if it was their wish. If lessons were given on these lines, experience in Ireland had shown that there would be no sectarian strife, and that it would be to the benefit of the Dominion. Other speakers were Mr. R C. Harding '(representing various school committees), Mr. S. Pearson (secretary of the league), Mr. F. A. Vaughan (a member of the South Wellington School Committee), Messrs. Rutherford, Malcolm, James Allen, T. Mackenzie, Mander, and Buddo, M.H.R's, and the Hon. G. Fowlds, Minister for Education. THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION'S VIEWS. Mr. Fowlds, upon the Premier's suggestion, gave his views upon the subject before Sir Joseph Ward replied. The Minister for Education remarked that the different views expressed by one or two of the speakers were characteristic of the divergent views held not only among members of the House, but throughout the country upon the question. Speaking from his own personal point of view, he believed that if it was possible to have the Bible read simply as a classic, it was desirable, but he felt so certain from his own experience of the working of the Education Act, that it was not possible, without a good deal more following in its train, that he could not see his way to support it. Mr. Fowlds pointed out that Roman Catholics were all contributing to the national system of education, and it would be a wrong thing to institute something .which would inevitably drift into a system of rebgious instruction. They were on safe fines now. He was in England last year, and was a good deal interested in the controversy going on there in reference to the education question, and he had no hesitation in saying that amongst the best people, leaders of rebgious thought, there was a growing feeling that the only way to settle it was by the State undertaking the secular teaching of the children, leaving the religious instruction to the denominations to which the children's parents ■belonged. He was willing to give both time and money to secure the benefits of religious instruction to the children, but he was also strongly satisfied that the State had no right to say what that religion should be. That was his own view of the matter, but so far as the question of legislation was concerned the Premier would state the views of the Government on that point. He saw very great difficulty in doing what the deputation asked without very materially undermining the foundations of our national system of education. THE PREMIER'S REPLY. Sir Joseph Ward said he would like to state in the first instance, in reference to a request made by Mr. Aitken, that the deputation was anxious for a definite reply from him as to whether the Government would introduce legislation to give effect to the deputation's desires, that the Government had fully considered this matter upon more -than one occasion. - In view of the fact that he was to be interviewed by-the deputation this matter was again considered by the Government from the point of view that was now being urged. The Government had decided that it could not see its way to introduce such legislation, for the reason that if it did so, it would mean that the Government itself was favourable to the proposal made. As the Government was not favourable as a Government, it could not introduce legislation to give effect to what was asked. The Government took up the stand that it was in charge of a free, secular, and compulsory system of education, and if a change was desired it was for the people themselves to give an indication. This important question was before the country at the last general election, and an examination into the results showed that a considerable majority of members of the present House was not favourable to the proposal. He wanted, therefore, to give the deputation a plain reply, that the Government could not see its way to introduce legislation of this nature. As to whether facilities would be given by the Government to a private member, introducing legislation, he said no obstacle had ever been put in the way of a. private member bringing in a bill in order to test the feeling of the House. He did not wish to go into the general aspects of this matter, except to say that personally he had always been in favour of religious instruction for all denominations of children. That was essential to their future lives and in the interests of the country. The difficulties surrounding this matter had been put forward by the Minister for Education. Whatever the motives were in the past the Bible was excluded from the school, but they would recognise that it was only the people themselves who could settle a matter of this sort when there were so many diverse opinions. So long as the people confirmed the present system of allowing nothing in the shape of religious instruction in the schools, then the Government must give effect to the mandate of the people. That was what the Government was doing at the present moment.