THE STANDARD.

Auckland Star, Volume XXXVI, Issue 29, 3 February 1905, Page 5

THE STANDARD.

The scope of the First Examination for the degree has been defined with more detail, but the Second Examination has not been so defined, nor will be till ; next Senate meeting, there being no necessity for it. For the First Examination the standard of the French snd German is that of the B.A- History (one paper) embraces general history between the years 17G0 and 1890, with especial attention to the chief maritime countries of the world. Geography (two papers) : (a) Physical geography, embracing the measurement of time, t climatic conditions, methods of determining latitude and longitude, and similar subjects more or less within general knowledge, and (b) commercial geography, dealing with the production and distribution of commercial commodities, and the various facilities and hindrances to trade—the paper to have special re ference to the Empire and America, the chief geographical and local conditions of the different parts, the social and political characters likely to affect trade with New Zealand, the distribution of population and of trade, etc. Economics (two papers) will lH' the B.A. standard to be set in accordance with resolution of the Senate. Accountancy (two papers) is to embrace commercial arithjmetic and bookkeeping of standards such as are ordinarily acquired from a skilled accountant. The mathematics standard will be algebra as required for the B.A. degree. The standard for physics and chemistry will be that of' the Intermediate Medical Examination, and that of the geology will bo the physical geology of the B.A. The fees will'be £2 2/ for any examination except the special examination for algebra and geometry after matriculating, the fee being £ 1 1/THE DISCUSSION. Professor F. D. Brown moved the adoption.of the report clause by clause. When the Senate came to the clause requiring mathematics or one of three sciences to be taken, llr Baume rose to propose the deletion of the clause. He said that the course as laid down made the degree the most difficult in the University to obtain. It had never been intended to make the degree require a great deal of work such as was proposed —more work than for the B.A. He had nothing to complain of concerning languages, history, and geography, but when it came to a second course in mathematics he thought it too much. Taking tha number of papers alone, there were eleven separate examinations for the first examination, whereas there were onlytwelve for the whole of the B.A. Something should be done to relieve the course of some of its burden. He also would leave out statistical method and actuarial mathematics. To let the course pass as it stood meant to make it impossible for the majority to do the necessary work. Nineteen papers in the degree was too much —it was heavier than the.Law degree. He was anxious to see the degree established because it would extend the University's work into the broad commercial circles, and do much to remove the scorn and indifference with which merchants were now inclined to regard University training.

Professor Cook was inclined to Jgice with Mr Baume .that the course was overladen. At the same time he did not think it shuld be compared to the B.A. degree—rather should the comparison be drawn between it and the medical and engineering degrees. As for statistical me.hod, he thought that was the most important thing of the lot.

The Chancellor (Sir Robert Stout) said the degree would not be heavier than the low degrees. lie thought there might be three examinations in place of two to ease the strain.

Professor Brown said the three were provided for already-—a student could take two subjects the first year.

The Rev. Mr Evans said the question was whether a degree was possible without all these subjects. No doubt the committee had been guided by other University courses, and had put in the subjects because they felt they had no alternative. But the degree was not on all fours with a medical or engineering degree —the student didn't necessarily enter commerce after it.

Dr. Fitehett considered it would be a mistake to drop out mathematics. The heaviness of the examination was more apparent than real—the papers were numerous, but would not necessarily exhaust the student.

Mr Hogben took rather a similar view. The time oeeupied in the pVper3 would be the usual three hours each, but that would not entail any longer sludy than for any other degree. It would no doubt be sufficient in mathematics if the student received special instruction in algebra prior to taking the actuarial mathematics. He did not think it would be detrimental to the course if the clause were left out. As for the I whole course, it was no heavier than

mathematics ; rather lighter, h* thought. They had a special subject of "organisation in industry and commerce" in place of mathematics.

The Vice-Chancellor (the Hon. C. C. Bowen) said the intention of the Senate was not to establish a mere School of Commerce, but a degree which would bring commerce up to the level of the other professions in the realms of education. Of course, there would be succe««ful merchants without the degree, but it was in order to give those who could take it the opportunity of placing themselves on an intellectual level with other professional men.

Professor Maclaurin thought Mr Baume was right, and mathematics might well be dropped out. Dr. McDowell said the intention of tlie Auckland Council was to encourage the students to take sciences applying to the business they were going in for. The upper branches of technical education might thus be provided for. He would be sorry to see the clause struck out, because in both examinations mathematics and science should be provided for. Professor J. R. Brown said he would like to see some modification made to lighten the iirst examination. He claimed there had been two false analogies quoted—first, the Manchester degree. •It was not fair to quote Home degrees as standards for our own, because if the Commerce degree were of English standard, the others would have to be raised, and he did not think this was possible at present in fhis country. The other was in comparing the Commerce degree to Medicine, etc. There was no true analogy—there was not the. same inducement to take the degree. It was resolved by 9 votes to 8 that the clause should stand. Mr Hogben said that the degree must not be made too easy foy students, else it would lose prestige. Rethought the Auckland College "intended to grant diplomas on a lower standard than the degre.e, just as Canterbury gave engineering diplomns. Professor Brown said that was the intention. Mr Baume suggested that the history should be that of the British Empire. The Chancellor: But you cannot leave out the United States and France and Germany! Mr Baume: The history, of Englanil is the commercial history of the world. The Chancellor: We may think so, but other nations don't. The report was finally carried on the voices.