"SCENE" AT THE HARBOUR BOARD.

Auckland Star, Volume XXXIII, Issue 95, 23 April 1902, Page 3

"SCENE" AT THE HARBOUR BOARD.

MR BRIGHAM'S TRIP HOME,

A LIVELY "MEETING.

MR WITHEPORD READS A

LETTER.

AMID STRONG PROTEST

I FORCIBLE" EJECTION THREAT-

ENED.

Opposition to the proposal to send Mr J. M. Brigham, secretary to the Auckland Harbour Board, to England in connection with the works: at the Calliope Dock led to a stormy meeting- of the Board yesterday afternoon. The meeting was a special one, called to consider the recommendations of a subcommittee appointed at last meeting' of the Board to draw up instructions for the guidance of the secretary while in London. Mr J. Gunson, chairman, presided, and there were also present Messrs. W. J. Napier, and J. H. Wittieford, M.H.R.'s, M. Niecbl, .J. Stichbury, G. Cozens, A. R. Harris, C. Grey." A. Kidd, W. J. W. Philson, and J. T. Julian. Mr Gunsoh had not arrived at 2.30 p.m., and Mr Witheford immediately moved that Mr Julian take the chair. Members objected to this, as Mr Gunson might arrive at any moment. The motion was unseconded, and Mr Witheford remarked that when he came to the last meeting- two minutes late important business had been transacted. A few minutes later Mr Witheford repeated his motion, which found a seconder, but. Mr Napier moved as an amendment that, the chairman be allowed a further four.minutes. This amendment was successful, but Mr Witheford was on his feet to again move his proposition when the chairman entered the'room, and apologised for being late. As soon as the chairman had taken his seat, and before the business had been announced, Mr Witheford rose and stated that at last meeting of the Board he had said he would bring a motion forward at next meeting with the object of rescinding the resolution authorising the visit of the secretary to London. Since then he had ascertained that that portion of the meeting was an illegal one, being out of order, and he was now going to read a letter to the chairman. Mr Witheford had not read many words before Mr Napier raised a point of order. He said th.at was a special meeting, called for a specific purpose, and no other business could be transacted. The chairman, who had been on his feet,all along, said Mr Napier was right, Mr Witheford was quite irregular, and he ruled him out of order. Mr Witheford: Why did you not rule that two minutes ago? (This in allusion to the chairman being a little late.) You have always treated me fairly, and I hope you will treat me fairly now. The chairman: This is no question of fairness. We must go by the Standing Orders, Mr Witheford: I don't care whether I am in order or not. 1 Jam going to read this letter. He then moved: "That the first item in the report, instructing the secretary 'to negotiate with the Admiralty in reference to the increase of subsidy and sinicing fund, and also as to dates of payment of same, be not passed by the Board," and said that in doing so he wished to put himself right. Mr Napier pointed out that this was a negative, not a motion. Mr Niccol; Mr Witheford had better wait until the report is moved. The chairman asked Mr Witheford not to delay the Board, Mr Witheford: I am not, delaying the Board, excuse me. The Board has been waiting ten minutes for you. The chairman: Wait till this matter conies up, and then you will have your opportunity. ' Mr Witheford: But as soon as the matter is put you jump up and declare it carried. At last meeting, I asked for a document, which the chairman refused to bring up, in defiance of the Standing Orders. Mr Napier: This is not a meeting to discuss the chairman's ruling, and Mr Witheford's action is entirely irregular. The chairman: Mr Witheford is entirely out of order, and most irregular, and I hope»,he will allow the business to proceed. Mr Witheford said he -would accept the chairman's ruling, and peace reigned for a while. Mr Stichbury then moved that the items be taken seriatim, and. this being seconded, the chairman ruled that the snb-committee's report was before the meeting. This brought Mr Witheford to his feet, again, with the remark that he was not going to have things go on in this way. He continued: "I have the chair (laughter). Anyone, would think the chairman was a policeman the way he stands-" Mr Napier: I would ask that the chairman rule Mr Witheford out of order, and if he will not sit down that he be removed from the room. The Chairman: Mp Stiehbury- baa moved a motion, and I put it. Mr Witheford: I beg to oppose the motion, and in doing so -. Mr Napier asked the chair to again rule with regard to Mr Witheford. The Chairman: I do not like to stop Mr Witheford, because he has charged me with partiality. Mr Witheford: I do; and again today. The Chairman: You are entirely out of order, and I rule so. Mr Witheford: I am speaking to a motion already proposed and seconded. The Chairman: Well, speak to that motion. Mr Witheford: I am speaking to it. In order to put my position clearly before the Board I wish to read this letter-. Mr Naceol: Mr Witheford can only speak as to his reasons with regard to the motion. Mr Witheford: Give me fair play. I gave you fair play when it was a question of whether the books were correct. ; Mr Niccol: What? The Chairman: I think Mr Witheford should withdraw that. . Mr Witheford; I withdraw notMng-, not even that I am unfairly treated at this Board. If this question were

not so serious to the Admiralty and the port of Auckland, the whole affair might be regarded as a huge joke-

Mr Witbeford a^ain proceeded; to the reading of his letter. The Chairman:- Will you kindly sit down. . "

Mr Stichbury raised another point of order. He, had moved that the items' be taken" seriatim. '

Mr Witheford continued on his feet, and-proceeded to read his letter amid a storm of angry protest from other members, very little being heard, the others all talking at once, evidently in order to drown his voice. Towards the end of the letter "there was a brief interval of silence, and, when he had concluded Mr Witheford threw the letter towards the chairman, who took no**£fcMSther notice of it.

The letter was as follows: —

To the Chairman of the Auckland Harbour Board: —Sir, —It was my intention before■ this to have moved that the Board rescind the resolution, to send the secretary to London, but having since learned that the proceedings in regard to* this matter at last Board meeting were informal, I did hot think it necessary to adopt this course. If this question "was not so serious to the Admiralty, to) the debenture-holders, and to the port and city of Auckland, the whole affair might be regarded as a huge joke. An official of this Board is sent Home in .1898 to complete the negotiations for the equipment of the Dock. He employs neither a solicitor nor an engineer, although instructed to obtain professional advice. He engages with the Admiralty that massive works (costing at toe least £60,000) shall be carried through on the basis of Sis own estimate of £14,000, and the whole work, if carried out as arranged by him, would have been a fatal mistake from an engineering point of view. In addition to this, he introduces into the Admiralty schedule of works a sum of £ 1000 for his own expenses. £760 of this he claimed on his return, and it was paid to him. The balance he afterwards claimed for himself, as it was stated that it could not be used for any other purpose, one member stating that if it was not paid to the secretary it would have to be remitted back to the Admiralty. The absurdity of this is apparent when ifc is borne in mind that not a single penny has up to the present time been received from the Admiralty. This sum of £1000 forms part of the loan specially raised for the equipment of the dock,and on which the Board ispaying £3f per cent, interest to the Auckland Savings Bank. This was done in face of the fact that before I left Eng-. land I cabled to the Board at the reg vest \.pf the Admiralty, who have a copy 6%, the cable, stating in effect that it Was no use for the secretar,V to come home unless he brought with him plans, specifications and estimates of the cost of the work required to be done, as there was no-, thing else to discuss. This cable is now in possession of the Board, with other correspendence, and although I repeatedly demanded its production diiring the discussion, at last meeting my demand was refused. The secretary went Hojne and returned with a flourish of trumpets, stating how he had scored for the Board all along the line, and obtained the thanks of the Board before they were aware of the precise nature of the contract to, which the Board was committed. jThe Board are going to repeat this! costly mistake, and I ask what is the use of keeping this official pendulum swinging between the Harbour Board and London. I protest as a debentureholder, as a member of the Board, and as a citizen of [Auckland, ag-ainst the indecent haste in which this matter has been rushed through without giving the members the ordinary notice that such business was coming- before tho Board.—l am, etc., J. H. WITHEFORD." During the uproar consequent on the reading of the letter, the secretary left the room, returning shortly after with one of the clerks. Mr Witheford, again asked to take his seat, said: I am speaking to the resolution. / The Chairman: Will you kindly sit down ? Mr Witheford: I will not. The Chairman: I order you to sit down. Mr Witheford: I am going to speak fro this resolution, and will *not sit down. The Chairman: Then you will have to be removed, because you a"re, entirely out of order, and if you refuse to obey my ruling I. will have you removed from the room. Mr Witbeford: I wish you' would get me removed. The chairman cast a meaning glance at the clerk, but> did not give the order. Mr Witheford was asked by Mr Cozens to sit down, but refused to do so, and while he was on his feet the chairman put the motion, "That the items be taken seriatim," which was carried", Mr Witheford only opposing. The chairman moved, and Mr Niceol seconded, the adoption of clause 1. Mr Witheford: I propose that the clause be not taken at all. The Chairman1, That is no amendment, that is a negative. Mr Witheford: I move that the sec- ; retary do not go to LondonThe Chairman: That is also a negative, and I cannot aocept it. Mr Witheford: I can speak against the motion? The Chairman: Certainly. Mr Witheford: Well, why are 37"ou standing up like a policeman ? Mr Stichbury: I rise to a point of order. Mr Wdtheford should certainly withdraw' the words he has just used. They are an insult to the chairman and the Board. I think Mr Witheford should either go away or attend to business. The Chairman: I take it that the Board, does not want to go into personalities. -Mr WHheford: I- withdraw the words with great pleasure, for the esteem I have for the chairman as a man. It is only when a man gets into the chair that he becomes different, and removes from the paths of justice. Mr Cozens: Is that your experience? ! Mr Witheford: This matter has been so rushed througrh that I beg with all deference to say the proceedings at last meeting1 were informal. Mr. Cozens raised a point of order

that Mr. Withefora could not refer to a past meeting.

Mr, }Vitheford drew attention to: standing- order No. 25, and stated that a document he had asked foi? at last meeting had not been produced.

The Chairman: That has nothing to do with the special meeting. ,

t Mr. Witheford: The last meeting ; was informal, and what is the use oi going over this matter when it is ilv legal. Whatever.is done will be quesr? tioned. I will question *fc myself. ] speak as a representative of the people. Pour years ago the same thing was done.' ■ - The Chairman ruled this reference out of order, but Mr. Witheford said it was the same subject, the same secretary, and the same business, and they were making the same blunder. Mr. Julian asked if any alteration in the subsidies was going to be asked. . . . The chairman said no alteration was to be made. The cost of the work was £47,000. Mr, Julian said he was told by an engineer that the cost would be £60,----000. The Chairman said that the items placed before the Board at last meeting were approved by the Admiral. Others were hot approved. Mr. Julian believed the cost would be £60,000, and the Board would have to find the extra money. , Mr. Stichbury said the recommendations were rather confusing. He understood the secretary was to be sent Home to arrange with the Admiralty as to the finances in connection with the sheer-legs. He wished further to know if Mr. Brigham also had power to order machinery, and, if so, whether he was going as financier or as engineer. If he went Home as financier he would be in the right position, but if as engineer he would object to it. If they wanted an engineer they must send an engineer. Mr. Philson said Mr. Witheford had read out a letter which he presumed would be taken as an official document. The chairman had allowed him to read that letter, and he had strongly objected to it. He hoped the Chairman would reason with Mr. Witheford and endeavour to induce him to withdraw it. The Chairman: It cannot be taken as an official document. Mr. Cozens said there seemed to be some misapprehension about clause 1. The Admiralty had not paid any subsidy up to the present, and Mr. Brigham was going Home to induce the Admiralty to pay the subsidy and interest on. what had already been done, leaving out the sheer-legs. He believed Mr. Brigham was specially 'fitted for that duty. . Mr. Julian thought that should be done by correspondence. Mr. Harris asked if the Board had had any communication with the Admiralty. The Chairman said they had written iii July, and the first reply had been what they had from the Admiral, n'ne months later. The clause was then put and carried by six votes to.five, the voting on the division being: For—Messrs. Niccol, Cozens, Kidd, Napier, Philson and the Chairman; against—Messrs. Stichbury, Harris, Gray, Witheford and Julian. The Chairman then moved clause 2, "That no new machinery is to be provided unless authorised by the Board." He said that if there should be any^ thing required by the Board while the secretary was in London he could order it under the clause. Mr. Julian opposed this, because one or two things that had been ordered had proved failures. The Priestman dredge was continually in the smith's hands. The Chairman said the secretary had nothing to do with that. Mr.' Witheford said he spoke with diffidence on engineering matters, but he supported Mr. Julian. •He had Wanted the Board to get a proper engineer all along. He instanced the case of the dredger No. 121, and 'said that for want of an engineer Melbourne had got all the best work out of that. He believed. Mr. Brigham had conscientiously done his best, but four years had passed, and he asked them to look at the position of things now. They were in the position of the Panama Canal. They got the wrong class of machinery. If they had an experienced engineer as secretary, as in Wellington, things might go right. Mr. Brigham had not the mechanical knowledge, and it was not fair to expect him to do everything right. He had heard that there was going to be more machinery bought, and that there was a commission of £2000 sticking out, but he did not believe but when he came before the Board he found all this big business going on. With reference to clause 2 he said that if any machinery was to be bought he would rather send an expert .Home to buy it. He did not like to see a man sent Home imle'ss he dould be made responsible. Four years ago a contract was made, and what was. the result? Some members of the Board believed that they had been receiving subsidies all along. ("No.") The Board should not have to revise contracts made in London, The Chairman said the clause did not give power to the secretary. Mr Witheford said he pro-tested against no notice being sent to members before last meeting that the secretary was to be sent to London, The Chairman: You had. notice. Mr Witheford; The notice did not show that this was to come before the Board, The Chairman: Well, this clause fills the bill. Mr Witheford: Yes, but the business at last meeting was not carried through in a formal way, The Chairman: You cannot refer to that now, Mr Wit-heford: You have compelled me to refer to it.* Why could not Mr C. La Roche, the Board's engineer, go to England. He will gain experience:, and he knows more about machinery than anybody on the Board. Another reason why I shall oppose this is that I think we are acting in too much haste altogether. Mr Stichbury moved as an amendment that the clause be deleted altogether. He thought "they should refrain, from giving the secretary po-wer to order machinery of any kind. They had agents in London, and ordering should" be done through theut, so that Mr Brigham would bare his hands clear from everything1 but finance. Mr Cozens pointed on* the of Mr Brig-ham having1 authority after cabling to the Board to order any ma-

cshin«ry that the Admiralty might insist <&n^ such as new patent boilers, turbines, etc., and oh Which the Admiralty would t« prepared to pay interest and sinking" fund. The amendment was then put, and was carried on a division, Messrs Stiehbury, Harris, Gray, Niccol, Witheford and Julian voting against the retention of the clause, and Messrs Kidd, Cozens, Napier and Philson for it. Clause 3, that all offers, in reference to subsidy or sinking- fund be telegraphed and approved-before same is accepted, was carried on the motion of the Chairman, seconded by Mr Napier. Mr Witheford asked if the expense of telegraphing1 was to come out of the secretary's expenses, The Chairman said there must be some limit,' but the Board would .naturally pay expenses in connection with its own business, Mr Stichbury moved that clause 4, that amounts of tenders be telegraphed and no tender accepted unless approved by the Board, be deleted. As this hinged on clause 2, already deleted, the motion was agreed to. The Chairman meved the" adoption of clause 5, that a letter of instructions in conformity with the foreg-oing resolutions be given by the Chairman to the secretary. \ Mr Witheford said there was nothing about expenses in this, and last time it had been an unsatisfactory matter. The Chairman: You may move a limit to the expenses bill. ,Mr Witheford: I was asking for information on the matter. : Mr. Napier: This is not the time. You should move an-additional clause. Clause 5 was then, carried on the j voices. • ■ Mr Witheford: I propose that in consideration of the veiy lavish way in which the secretary was*paid on the last occasion that he go as an honorary officer and not be* paid at all. Mr Napier: That matter could be left with the sub-committee. Mr Julian asked if the bonus voted out of the Admiralty subsidy last time to Mr Brigham might not go towards his expenses on this trip. The Chairman: That matter is out of order. Mr Julian: The Board made a present of thait money arid it should now be used, and the Board could pay the balance of expenses.' The Chairman said that the money having been voted the Board nad nothing to do with it. Mr Philson said Mr Brigham's expenses had been thought reasonable, and it was very unfair to bring them up now. The bonus voted was not lost; the Board included it in expeuses. Mr Julian: It is lost. > , Mr Witheford: The Admiralty have paid nothing. ."• z Mr Witheford asked what was the financial position of the Board. The first overdraft they ever had was for the secretary's expenses. Mi* Stichbury asked that the power of attorned be read. This was done, and.it was found necessary to amend it, owing to the Rejection of two •clauses in ; the report. Mr Julian moved, "That the. adoption of the report be deferred for a fortnight, and that the power of attorney be amended." He said there was no hurry in sending Mr Brigham to London, as the expenses now would be heavier than at any other time. Mr Stichbury suggested a week's adjournment, and Mr Julian altered his motion, Mr Stichbury then seconding. Mr Napier thought the sub-commit-tee should deal with the question of expenses and d& the power of attorney. Mr Y\*itheford supported Mr Julian's motion. "Mr Napier moved, "That the power of. attorney be referred back to tho sub-committee for amendment, and that this meeting- adjourn until Thursday next at two o'clock, to receive the report." Mr Julian: Say a'fortnight. Mr' Philson said it seemed a section of the Board was doing all in its power to prevent Mr Brigham going to London. Having failed iff this, they now desired to postpone the matter, so that Mr Brigham should not be in time for the Coronation. He was sure a majority of the Board was not desirous of depriving him of seeing the Coronation. All the alteration required 'in the power of attorney could be made in a day, probably in a couple of hours. Mr Brigham was quite capable of settling the financial portion of the work,, and if questions of purchasing machinery arose he could consult the Board's agents in London and the Admiralty engineers. He thought it cruel to pass a resolution simply for the purpose of preventing Mr, Brig-, ham seeing the Coronation^ Mr Julian: We are not sending Mr Brigham Home to the Coronation, but on the.Board's business, and the worst time to send him is during the Coronation. If you want to send him Home to see what is to be seen, let the public know that you want to send him to the Coronation. Mr Witheford said he did not wish to prevent Mr Brigham seeing the Coronation, The chairman: That is not the question at all. Mr Witheford said he had no desire to impede the progress of the Dock. The Admiralty was the greatest naval institution in the world.. There was no ill-feeling towards the secretary on. the part of any member of the Board, but as the people's representative he wished to see the money spent to the best a<Jvantage. Mr Niccol: The question under discussion is the power of attorney. Mr Witheford: I am coming to that now. We should not be hasty. I support Mr Julian's proposition, that we wait a fortnight, and give due time. Mr Na-pieri We will give Julian time. Mr Witheford: Well, if the Attor--1 ney-General is satisfied, I am to a great extent with him. I strongly protest against Mr Philson's insinuation Mr Napier's amendment that the Board meet at 2 p.m. on Thursday was then put and carried, Messrs. Niccol, Cpzens, Kidd, Philson, Napier and the chairman voting for it, and Messrs. Stichbury, Grey, Harris, Wltheford and Julian against. Mr Niccol then moved: "That the sub-committee be instructed to re-

port on Thursday on tne questiott of the secretary's expenses* Mr Cozens seconded, and Mr Napieii supported. Mr Witheford; I dpn't agree to that. The motion . then carried, Messrs. Julian and Witheford voting against it. The chairman then moved: "That the sub-committee's recommendations, as amended, be agreed to. Mr Niccol seconded, and the motion was carried.