OLD AGE PENSIONS.

Auckland Star, Volume XXIX, Issue 227, 26 September 1898, Page 2

OLD AGE PENSIONS.

PABLIAMENTAEX STONEWALL.

ANOTHER ALL - NIGHT SITTING,

(By Telegraph.—Parliamentary Reporter.)

WELLINGTON, Saturday.

The stonewall was obstinately prolonged by the Opposition throughout the forenoon, the discussion being as dreary as a twice told tale. The House presented a washed-out appearance, and the sombre light that fell through the skylight from a clouded sky lent an additional air of melancholy to the scene. The galleries were nearly empty. Mr Shrimski was the solitary occupant of the 'lords'' gallery. There was one lady and a rather pretty child in the adjoining gallery devoted to the wives of Legislative Councillors. In the ladies' gallery there were only three women besides the 'lady specials,' and 7 earnest students" of modern politics and Parliamentary titg-s-of-war were lost in the great void of the strangers' gallery. At 11 o'clock Mr Rolleston said he did not believe in stonewalling, but extreme cases demanded extreme measures. What was war? asked the member for Riccarton in dramatic tones. When argument failed men appealed to physical force, which the Opposition, he confessed, were now doing. He asked the Government to go back to constitutional lines. THE PREMIER HOLDS THE OPPOSITION RESPONSIBLE. The Premier said to go back to constitutional lines meant that the majority must rule. The Opposition had failed to convince the majority of the people and the House and now they were having recourse to absolutely unconstitutional and improper methods. The Old Age Pensions Bill was a measure which ought to be beyond party consideration and should be discussed on its merits, each side vicing with the other to make the Bill as perfect as possible; but the Opposition, in their attempts to justify their obstruction, had been obliged to have recourse to discussions about sailors, shearers, commercial travellers, jockeys, dunghills, Epsom salts, sweating, and bleeding, the torturing of suffering humanity in various forms. The Opposition had also asked that consideration should be given to the claims or horse trainers, tote bettors, and spielers. The real fact was that the Opposition had endeavoured to block the Bill from the preamble. The Leader of the Opposition (Capt. Russell) came to him (the Premier) and inquired how far he proposed to proceed with the Bill that night. He told Capt. Russell that if clause 8 were passed by one o'clock in the morning they might adjourn and go home, but this compromise was not adopted because the Opposition would accept nothing but the coercion of the majority and the ruin of the Bill. The Premier concluded by making another earnest appeal to the Opposition to get on with the Bill instead of wasting time in irrelevant talk. : THOSE LITTLE INCIDENTS. Mr Rolleston, referring to the above remarks of the Premier, reproached him for having alluded to certain •little incidents' of the debate. At 12.30, when Mr Meredith relieved Mr Guinness in the chair, the stonewall was indef atigably kept up by Mr Rolleston, assisted by his lieutenants, Messrs G. Hutchison, Buchanan, and Fraser. On the cross Opposition benches were Messrs Duthie, Brown, McNab, J. W. Thomson, R. Thompson, and Crowther. The fort was held on the Ministerial side by Messrs Thompson, Carroll, Mills, Holland, Larnach, and Morrison. On the Left Wing benches were Messrs- Kelly, Pirani, and Montgomery. From this usually lively corner frequent interruptions came in the form of chaffing interjections and personal reflections, which at last provoked the wonderfully equable temper of the Chairman (Mr Guinness) to cause him to remark: I shall have to report some members directly for disorderly conduct,' .Mr R. Thompson said the deadlock might result in a dissolution, whereat several members changed colour. Marsden went on to suggest that some compromise should be effected, which elicited from Mr Pirani the remark *in the back yard.' Perhaps the only really sensible remark in Mr Thompson's speech was that they (I presume lie meant the Opposition) were making themselves ridiculous in the eyes of the people. / So the dreary stonewall dragged its Blow length along, without one scrap of argument that bore any relation to the principles of the Bill, without a scintillation of humour, all vapid inanities, uttered with hardly a show of decency. THE OPPOSITION TACTICS. The plan of the Opposition was a trick and a subterfuge; it was to keep on hypocritically pretending a burning desire to get on with practical work, whilst all the time they were wearing themselves out in assinme obstinacy to prevei^ the least bit of practical progress being made. Everyone welcomed the hour's respite when • the Committee adjourned for dinner irom one o'clock until two; but the 1-espite was brief. When the Committee resumed the flow of drivel was reopened. What a solemn burlesque it was to hear one Opposition member after another, with unblushing effrontery, accusing the Ministerial supporters of obstructing the progress of the Bill. The second reading, it will be remembered, was carried by 35 votes to 12. It was this same twelve —the twelve apostles of obstruction —who were resorting to every conceivable device to block the measure. AN AMUSING INCIDENT. At half-past two Mr Bollard (Eden) and Mr Smith (Christchurch) rose simultaneously to address the Committee, upon which Mr Geo. Hutchison moved, in accordance with an obsolete Parliamentary form, 'That the member for Christchurch be now heard,' which was lost on a division by 34 to 19. . The Chairman then called upon Mr Bollard to speak, but Mr Hutchison wanted to know if he would be in order in. moving that he 'be not now heard.' ; The Chairman ruled to the contraiy. Mr Bollard accordingly started to waste some more time, but was somewhat disconcerted when the member for Taieri (Mr Carncross) remarked to the Chairman: '! nnderstood that the hon. member is to be now heard; but we can't hear him.' Of course the Committee laughed at this feeble joke, but the laugh had a hollow sound. At 3.10 p.m. Mr Taylor treated the Committee to a homily on Parliamentary practice, remarking that 13£ hours had been wasted, and that if the little difference of opinion could not be arranged it did not reflect much credit Si en the 74 members of the House. He ■ predicted that the present state of

affairs would become intolerable outside as well as inside the House, and there would be an irresistible demand ior an elective executive ('Hear, hear,' from the Opposition benches. "He suggested that the Committee should pass a few clauses and adjourn. Capt. Russell, who had again come upon the scene, declared that as the result of a long sleep and quiet meditation he had come to the conviction that there was no alternative but to fight the question out. If there were to be a dissolution of Parliament it must be given to someone else than the Premier, so that any members who were wavering may take heart of grace. He admitted that the stonewall had been deliberately set up in order to enable members of the Opposition who were physically exhausted to recuperate their strength; in other words, that they had gone through the fatigue of a thirteen and a-half hours' sitting in order to obtain rest. It reminds me of the Irishman who sat up all night in order to get up early in the morning. THE PREMIER'S ULTIMATUM. The Premier said the Bill was before the House in a constitutional form, to be amended as a majority of the House might think best; but the country ought to understand the situation. Underlying the stonewall was the fact that a large section of the Opposition were determined, at any cost whatever, to prevent the Hill becoming law unless it was based on a contributory system. The member for Dunedin had sketched out the lines upon which it should be framed, and had declared that if it were not framed on those lines the Opposition would have no Bill at all. A minority had sworn they would not have the Government Bill. It was not creditable that a minority should take up that attitude. The Leader of the Opposition had threatened that no progress should be made up to midnight. Was the business of the country to be conducted on such lines.' The Opposition claimed the right to block the Bill until one o'clock in the morning by amendments of the most absurd character, referring to horse trainers and jockeys and tote bettors, and when one o'clock came they said to the House, 'You may go home; no further business shall be done.' The Opposition had gone on the same lines last session. When Christmas was approaching they deliberately blocked all business, and afterwards, during the recess, went round the country declaring that the Government could not carry on the business of the country. If there had been a loyal desire to assist the Government sufficient progress would have been made with the Old Age Pensions Bill to adjourn at one o'clock in the morning. He (the Premier) took up the position of being the representative of. a majority in the House and the country, and he was responsible for the business of legislation. The Leader of the Opposition was quite right in his statement that if the business of the country was not allowed to proceed the only course was to refer the question to the people. He for one was ready for the ordeal (Ministerial cheers). The Leader of the Opposition bad also said that if a dissolution were granted it would not be to the Premier, but to some other person. Let him try it; let him see if he had a majority in the House. The Opposition had been trying all through the session to secure snap divisions, and had been foiled. They had pretended to send some of their members home, but had concealed them in the Whip's room in readiness for a snap division. These were the , tactics upon which they relied for going to the Governor for a dissolution. He had asked the Committee on the previous evening to jmss sub-section 2, and had promised if reasonable progress was made with the Bill he . would consent to adjournment, and to this the Leader of the Opposition ■ agreed; but another member of the ■ Opposition afterwards moved to report • progress in order to block the Bill. ,If Captain Russell had shown any fairness he could have prevented such a situation being brought about. i When the Leader of Opposition again asked him how far he meant to go on . with the Bill he said up to subsection 17. The Leader of the Opposition said he did not think his party would ■ agree to that. Since then no further . overtures had been made. Even now ,he (the Premier) would be preparec* .to adjourn if some reasonable business j was done. THE PREMIER PUTS HIS FOOT ! DOWN. ' The Premier went on to say that hd • would go on with the Bill every night L next week if he had to eat and drink ' and sleep at the table of the House, ' and fight the measure, which he believed to be in the interests ,of the people of the colony. At the same time he recognised the right of the 1 Opposition to criticise the Bill, to ' endeavour to amend it in any direc- ', tion they deemed expedient, and they , had a right to review the administra- ,' tion of public affairs, but he was deter--1 mined that some progress should be made before the' House adjourned, and he would not recognise any right 1 on. the part of the Leader of a mino- [ rity to control the business of the ' House. There was a majority of members in favour of an Old Age Pension ' Bill, and crude as it might be they [ would make it as perfect as possible and pass it. Neither in regard to this Bill nor the Estimates had. the opposi- \ tion been conducted on constitutional ! lines. Had the Government been treat!ed fairly? Had faith been kept with him? He remembered that on a cer--1 tain occasion Sir H. Atkinson had told ' the Opposition that as they had brok!en faith with him he was absolved from any promises he had given. He (the Premier) would go on with the Old Age Pensions Bill and no other business until the obstruction ceased " (Ministerial cheers). MR TAYLOR SPEAKS OUT. iMr Taylor said he could under- • stand the attitude of the Opposition if ' they were to declare that the Ministry did not command the confidence of the country, and therefore that they ' ought nob to be allowed to proceed with any legislative business; that would be a clear issue. If they meant it, why didn't they say so? But he was disgusted with the subterfuges, the tricks and evasions which characterised the Opposition as well as the ■ Government. If the Opposition were 1 sincere in their protestations that they had no desire to block the Bill, ; how was it that all the amendments that had caused delay had been moved by the most strenuous opponents of the measure. Neither side would bft able to give a very clear explanation of their conduct to the country, but > the Opposition would find it most diifi- • cvult. i The appeal of the Premier and the ! member for Christchurch fell on deaf ears, and the wild incoherent talk was resumed. The only relief to the monotony was a suggested compromise by Mr Crowther that instead of going as

far as subsection 7, the Committee should proceed with the first four subsections. Mr Meredith characterised the Opposition tactics as disgraceful. The Chairman left the chair at 5.30 (after 27 hours sitting) until 7.30. At half past seven when the Chairman resumed the chair there were a score of members present, principally on the Opposition benches, a great void in the Left Wing quarter being relieved only by the presence of Mr Tanner, who was shortly afterwards joined by Mr Kelly and the member for Wellington suburbs (Mr Wilson), who promptly reclined at full length on the bench and became absorbed in the latest sensational novel. The Hon. John Mackenzie put in an appearance for the first time to-day, the other Ministers present being the Premier (in charge of the Bill) and Mr Cadraan. Mr Buchanan, who frequently strayed away from the subject, declared that if he had been in the place of the Leader of the Opposition he would have done his utmost to kill the Bill. Mr Carncross: That would be straightforward. Not killing the Bill by a side blow. Referring to the charge against the Ministerial side of leaving empty benches, he said the Opposition benches during a great part of the discussion in the small hours of the morning had been occupied by only two members. Mr Monk: You were asleep, rolled up in blankets. 'Yes,' retorted Taieri, but it was better to be outside in the wholesome atmosphere of the lobbies than in this House listening to the flood of drivel that has been poured out for hours and hours.' LATITUDE ALLOWED TO MEMBERS. The Chairman (Mr Guinness) said that during the present discussion the question had been frequently put to him as to what arguments might be used on a motion to report progress. He had looked up the question and found that the Speaker of the House of Commons had given a ruling on the subject at the time when great interest was taken in the proceedings of the House of Commons upon a Bill when Mr Parnell and other Irish members attempted to carry out what was called stonewalling. The ruling was very clearly laid down for the guidance of the Chairman of Committees in this House in determining what remarks should or should not be used on a motion to report progress. Mr Kantchbull Hugesscn asked 'What were the limits of discussion on a motion to report progress and whether it was competent on a motion for reporting progress not only to discuss points which would presently come ] before the committee in clauses not I yet reached, but actuary to go back to clauses which already had been discussed.' 'the Chairman replied The right hon. gentleman has asked | me a question which is not very easy \to answer. I understand that there is I practically no limit to the range, of | arguments which a member may bring j forward on the motion to report proIgress, provided only they be directed I to enforce his motion, the only subIjects excluded being clauses and amendments to particular clauses which would come before the committee subsequently. In the event of the hon. member referring to such amendments I should feel it my duty to arrest him in his progress. As for the j rest it must be left to the conscience j and sense of propriety on the part of | the hon. member himself to judge of | the arguments proposed to be used on such an occasion.' THE COURTESIES OF WAR. Mr Massey in reply to a remark by Mr Carncross accusing the Opposition iof absenting themselves from the I House with a view to killing the Bill, ; said that the Bill was afc the mercy of the Opposition, who, by absenting j themselves bodily from the Chamber, i could secure a count out; but in order ;that the Ministerial supporters might ■keep their eng-ug-ements for the nig-ht, ihe (Mr Massey) had given a pledge ithat the •Opposition would assist the Ministerial party in maintaining a ! quorum until eleven o'clock. j Mr Mills declared that the Opposition Whip had exhibited bad taste in | referring to the arrangements that I had been made in the interest of absent members. He challenged the Opposition to go to a division immediately he resumed his scat and test the question whether t.hey could 'kill the Bill even in the absence of some of its supporters. Capt. Russell was Understood to say that if a division were taken several ; Ministerial supporters would be hurIried away from the dinner at Governj ment House, and he was averse to | putting them to such inconvenience. i Mr R. Thompson (Marsden) chaljlenged any member on the Ministerial 1 benches to get up and discuss without ! reservation the financial considerations involved in the Bill. Mr O'Regan, who aspires to the distinction of becoming the future Gos- , chen of New Zealand, intimated his to pick up the glove, i whereupon Marsden sarcastically com- ! plimented Buller on his derring do. , I Mr Smith (Christchurch) went into a i little sum in multiplication in order to i show that as the Opposition could prolong the present discussion on one clause for a month, and as there are 63 i clauses in the Bill, they could spin out j the time on the whole measure to 63 months or 5J years, long before the expiration of which of course all the members except Mr Taylor would have died of tetanus, otherwise lockjaw. Mr Lewis complimented hon. mem-, bers on their patriotic self abnegation in remaining in the House all day instead of ■witnessing the opening of the boating season. ANOTHER OF RICCARTON'S LITTLE INCIDENTS. Mr Lewis, having meandered along until switched off by the bell, Messrs Fraser and George Hutchison rose together. Captain Russell moved that th» member for Wakatipu (Mr Fraser) be now heard, upon which Mr O'Regan divided the House, the result being ayes 22, noes 22. The Chairman, who had previously called upon Mr Hutchison, said _he would support his action by giving his casting vote with the noes. Then the membei 1 for Patea rose, and with an air of g-racious condescension, waived'his right to speak in favour of his friend from Wakatipu, who had scarcely got upon his legs before the Chairman reminded him that ho had nob been called on, and Mr Fraser resumed his seat. Then " the little formal matter of the call .from the chair having been got over, he again rose and proceeded to fill. up another ten minutes. I have only recorded this incident as a sample of the edifying and highly profitable manner in which our legislators beguile the j winged hours. . | At the time of closing (ten o'clock) the tali, is still gaing mi.