SPLIT IN THE BAPTIST UNION.

Auckland Star, Volume XVIII, Issue 254, 29 October 1887, Page 5

SPLIT IN THE BAPTIST UNION.

SECESSION OF THE REV. C. H. SPURGEON. THE OLD AND THE NEW THEOLOGY. BROAD SCHOOL INNOVATIONS OF DOCTRINE. PASTOR THOMAS~SPURGEON INTERVIEWED. THINKS A SIMILAR STAND NEEDED ! IN NEW ZEALAND.

In our last issue appeared a cablegram stating that the Rev. Mr Spurgeon had withdrawn from the Baptist Union, as be is dissatisfied with the action taken in connection with certain charges he lodged against the ministry of the Church, which, he asserts, ia declining spiritually and theologically. In order to obtain more specific information as to the causes which have operated to bring about this remarkable event among the Baptists, one of our reporters this morning interviewed Pastor Thomas Spurgeon, at his residence, Westwood, Mount Eden. Mr Spurgeon readily and affably submitted to the process of being interviewed, but premised that he did not think he had much information to communicate.

Reporter : Did the news conveyed by the cablegram come to you as a surprise, Mr Spurgeon ?

Mr Spurgeon : It did surprise me, and again it did not. Of course I have seen and read my father's recent articles in " The Sword and Trowel," also the replies of the critics and I remember saying as I read them that I thought it would have to come to that—his withdrawal from the Union.

You have been anticipating his secession then ?

Yes. Some three years ago, it may be four, he had some difficulty with theßaptist Union on account of their reception of a Unitarian" minister. My father did not attend the meeting of the Union, but he protested against the Baptist Union as a Union receiving this Unitarian minister into fellowship with them. Ho did not go the length of withdrawing from the Union, but I suppose the subjects of difference have been increasing ever since. There is one thing that I should like you particularly to point out. I find that theterms of the cablegram give one the impression that my father had left the Bapist denomination. But it is a very different thing from the Union. The Union, as its name indicates, is simply an association of Baptist Churches united on Baptist principles for mutual help. Although my father withdraws from the Union ho still remains a member of the Baptist denomination. When you were in England three years ago did your father speak to you of the differences in doctrine which have caused him to secede ?

Oh, yes ! He has had the matter closely at heart for a long time. He felt much as he has stated in his recent articles in the " Sword and Trowel." He was contending almost single-handed for what we consider to bo the orthodox doctrine.

Who is the leader of tho opposition to your father's views ? It is the " Christian World " principally which opposed him and advocates the principles which my father has been attacking many years, viz., the principles of the broad school of modern theological thought.

In his letters to you of late has he hinted at any probable action on his part or offered any statement of the position of matters. A letter which I had from him by the last mail spoke out even more strongly on the subject than his published articles do, but of course he would speak more freely in the letter to me.

Could you not give me an extract from his letter to illustrate the position which he holds ?

Adulterating the Gospel.

I cannot publish the letter because it is private, but I may give you a sentence or so From it to show that he most Btrenuously objects to is what he calls " adulterating the gospel." Mr Spurgeon then proceeded in quest of the letter and returned with the following brief extract from it: —"Adulterating the Gospel is- a crime. lam at war just now. The de-li is very fierce and so am I." In what way is the Gospel being adulterated according to your father's opinion? Well, the gist of his pretext appears to me to be contained in the following passage from his article entitled " Another word concerning tho Down Grade": — "The Atonement is scouted, the inspiration of Scripture is derided, the Holy Spirit is degraded into an influence, the punishment of sin ia turned into fiction, and the resurrection into a myth, and yet these enemies of our faith expect us to call them brethren, and maintain a confederacy with them I"

Who is tho editor of the "Christian World ?"

Mr James Clarke, a Congregationalism That I presume accounts for the following reference to the Independents in your father's article:—" We have said, with deep grief that we should have to say it, that many ministers have departed from the faith ; and this was no unkind suspicion on our part, but a matter of facfc, ascertained in many ways, and made most sadly sure. We trust that the Baptists are by no means so far gone as the Independents; indeed, we feel sure that they are not. Still, we do not.say thia in order to throw stones at others." Yes. The controversy has been going on for some considerable time ?

It has been simmering for years, and now the inevitable boil, over haa come about.

Regrettable Incidents-

What are the " regrettable incidents " to which your father refers in this passage :— "Let no man -dream that a sudden crotchet has entered our head, and that we have written in hot haste: we have waited long, perhaps too long, and have been slow to speak. Neither let anyone suppose that we build up our statements upon a few isolated facts, and bring to the front certain regrettable incidents which mifht as well have been forgotten.'' _■ fdo not know that I can speak positively as to that.

What do you surmise, then ? The case I have quoted of the Unitarian minister may be one euch incident. Then the fact that some in the Baptist Union protested against the election of Dr«,Clifford as President on account of his broad thological views may be another. Dr. Clifford is a very great personal friend of my father's although they differ on many doctrinal points Dr. Clifford as you may know is a General Baptist or Arminian.

General and Particular Baptists. And your father ? My father is a strong advocate of the particular Baptist views. What is the distinction between the two 1

The Particular Baptists believe in a particular redemption; the General Baptists in a general redemption. In other words the General Baptists broadly speaking are Arminians, while the Particular Baptists hold, to the so-called Calvanistic doctrine of- election to eternal life. At the same time they do not adopt the ulfcra-Cal-vinistic doctrine of election to damnation. The General Baptists are of course admitted to the Baptist Union without question. My father does not object to the individual holding broad views but to the Union holding them. , . , You have been expecting your fathers secession from the Union, then ? Yes; I quite expected it. I aid not Bee how te could keep' in

with the Union, knowing him as I do. The step, however, must have cost' him great pain, for the Union contains many good men and warm friends, Dr. Clifford, for instance. Don't you think your father's withdrawal will lead to the disrnption of the Union.

Champion of the Old Trnth

No I do not, for he never took a very prominent part as a member of the Union. He did not regularly attend the meetings, and yet he has virtually been the leader of the orthodox party during all these years. I think that the result will be that very many wh ohave secretly objected to the innovations of doctrine of the Broad school will be emboldened to speak out more plainly, and my father will be more than ever the Champion of the Old Truth, as he holds it. I do not think the Union will be very much affected. Do you not think that he will form another Union in consonance with his views ?

I should not like to say that. I should think he would be more inclined to congregational independence.

The Kffect in the Colonies.

What effect do you think your father's action will have upon the Baptists in these colonies ?

It is hard to tell. Personally I feel that the same sort of thing against which he protests exists here, and that the same stand is needed. Of course, it exists only in a modified degree. But in our New Zealand Baptist Union some of the same questions have been troubling us. Have they cropped up in Auckland ? Oh, no ; not in Auckland. What is the the strength of the General Baptists in New Zealand ? There are no General Baptist Churches in New Zealand so far as I know. Still, many of our members and many of the ministers hold similar views to those of the General Baptists. But you must not imagine that there is any dispute between the General and Particular Baptists as such. The Other Side. What are the principles for which the " Christian World " contends in opposition to your father ? By way of reply Mr Spurgeon handed our reporter a copy of the " Christian World " just to hand, containing an article headed, " Taking Up the Gauntlet." The following passage from it elucidates the differences which have been largely instrumental in causing Mr Spurgeon to withdraw from the Baptist Union :— Broadly stated, Mr Spurgeon's charge against_tne modern ministry of Dissent — and especially of Independency—is twofold; first, that it preaches an essentially different set of doctrines from those he himself holds, and then that it palma them off as "the old faith." An analysis of many a modern sermon would, we fear, show a good deal of trimming, and a balancing of opposite opinions in a way that is confusing and unsatisfactory to the hearer. It is time this should cease. We are now at the parting of the ways, and the younger ministers especially must decide whether or not they will embrace and undisguisedly proclaim that " modern thought" which in Mr Spurgoon's eyes is a ': deadly cobra," while in ours it is the glory of the country. It discards many of the doctrines dear to Mr Spurgeon and his school, not only as untrue and unscriptural, but as in the strictest sense immoral; for it cannot recognise the moral possibility of imputing either guilt or goodness, or the justice of inflicting everlasting punishment for temporary sin. It is not so irrational as to pin its faith to verbal inspiration, or so idolatrous as to make its acceptance of a true Trinity of divine manifestation cover polytheism. Even Mr Spurgeon himself has been to some extent under the fascination of the •' deadly cobra ;" for he does not, and dare not, now preach the Miltonic hell of his earlier ministry. But the questions of such doctrines as. these fade out of sight- when we come to consider the real nature of that Gospel which to Mr Spurgeon is so alarming on account of its " newness," though its age dates from the days of Christ It is set forth that Christianity does not consist in merely intellectual assent to any doctrine or set of doctrines whatsoever, but in life and disposition. Tho Pauline theology itself offers as the test of a man's Christianity his possession of the "spirit of Christ," and the Johannian declares that "he thatdoeth righteousness is righteous " Christianity therefore—even in the mouths of those to whom its creed-bound adherents most earnestly appeal — does not consist in opinion,, but in right feeling and conduct. Just as there may be a Christian Calvinistic Baptist, so there may be a Christian Arminian Independent, or a Christian Roman Catholic, or a Christian Unitarian, or even—if loving-kindness is the ruling principle of his life—a Christian Agnostic. In saying this, however, we do not undervalue theological conceptions, but only desire that they should not be substituted for something higher and better, which it was the supreme aim of Christ's mission to inculcate.