DUNEDIN PARLIAMENTARY UNION.

New Zealand Tablet, Volume XVII, Issue 8, 18 June 1886, Page 7

DUNEDIN PARLIAMENTARY UNION.

{Evening Star, Jnne 14.) The Union met as usual at the Lyceum Hall on Saturday evening, when the strangers' gallery was largely occupied. IRISH HOME RULE. Mr. Jago moved — "That this House congratulate the Right Honorable Mr. Gladstone on the recognition by him of the right of the Irish nation to a fair measure of self-government, and on the earnest endeavour made by him to meet the just demands of the people of Ireland, as expressed through their representatives in the House of Commons ; and this House further express the hope that such measures will be speedily adopted as will give to Ireland a sufficient control over local affairs, while at the same time maintaining intact the unity of the Empire." He said that the questions involved were ■o numerous, co important, and so far-reaching in their results that it was with a feeling of serious responsibility he brought the motion forward, and he would not have done so were he not sure that he had the sympathy and support of a large proportion of members. The motion did not ask members to commit themselves to an approval of the scheme which had been recently discussed in the House of Common". It did not ask them to endorse Mr. Gladstone's ideas specially, or to endorse any other scheme which had been submitted for the pacification of Ireland. All that was asked was that Mr. Gladstone should be congratulated on the recognition by him of the right of the Irish nation to a fair measure of self-government, and on the earnest endeavour made by him to meet the just demands of the people of Ireland as expressed .through their representatives in the House of Commons. Surely, enjoying the rights and privileges we did ourselves, it would not be for us to deny that measure of local self-government which Ireland sought. He had thought of preparing himself with some statement as to the manifold Irish grievances which had led up to the present condition of things but he had found that they were so numerous, and that they had extended over so many ages and generations, that it would he altogether impossible to attempt to even glance at them. All that he insisted upon was that the demand which had come from the Irish people was a just and equitable oue, and that the Kight Honorable Mr. Gladstone was to be congratulated in that he had at least recognised its justness. He was to be congratulated on haviug had the courage, wisdom, and foresight to attempt to solve this ques tion by the very Radical measuic wmch lie had submitted to the House of Commons ; and they should congratulate the man who faced Bcorn and contumely, and stood up against treachery, and boldly declared that the Irish people had demanded a right >hiug, and th^t he was prepared to stake his reputation as a statesman upon the attempt which he had made to grant to the Irish people that measure of self-government which he believed they had a right to eujoy. It might be said that the Irish people had as much self-government as any other part of the king.lorn or as they had a light to. He only relied upon the statement made by Mr. Gladstone that the Irish people bad not. He would say in conclusion, that the right honorable gentleman, especially in the position in which he was now placed, deserved tie sympathy and the support which might be drawn from all quarters of the British Empire ; and he believed hjwever insignificant a portion of tbe Empire this Oolouy might be, it was a question on which we bad a right to express ouiselves. The fact of the colonies giving expression to such sentiments as were to be found in the resolution would materially strengthen Mr. Gladstone's hands, and if he was enabled by the encouragement which he thus obtained to succeed in carrying his measure generations yet unborn would arise, and call him blessed ; and it would be said of him as was said by Canon Farrar of Lloyd Garrison, who threw the chains of a hundied thousand slaves at the feet of Liberty : " No nitrble would be white enough wherewith to form a statue to adorn his tomb." — (Applause.; Mr. Barclay seconded the motion. He stated what it was proposed to grant to Ireland by Mr. Gladstone's scheme, and referred to the manner in which all objections had been met by tbat gentleman. The ouly serious objection which had been raised was that Home Rule would lead to separation ; but there weie many answers to this. If li eland wanted separation she was in as good a position to get it without Home bule as with it. He strongly maintained, however, that there was not the slightest desire for separation in Ireland. Mr. Callan said he need not tell the House that the matter under discussion was one he took a great interest in. But apart from that, and looking at the question from the point of view of a New Zealand colonist — living as he did under a constitution as free as any to be found on the earth, and knowing how conducive such a form of government as we had was to prosperity, peace, and happiness — he could not in justice refuse his consent to a proposal which had for its object the granting of a similar form of Government to the Irish people. When be believed also that by tbe granting of such a form of government, peace, prosperity, and k : ndly feeling would take the place of discontent, disturbances, poverty, and crime, he must give all the support he could to the motion. It simply asked the House to say that the Irish people should have what we ourselves enjoyed. Suppose we had no Parliament in New Zealand, and had to send our representatives to Melbourne ; and further, that there was set up here a small court composed exclusively of Victorianß, acting as an executive to carry out the decrees of the Victorian Parliament, what would be the feelings of New Zealanders ? Even those who now said Ireland ought not to get Home Rule would never cease agitation until they were allowed to manage their own affairs. He believed that before many jears elapsed the North and South Islands of New Zealand would have separate Houses of Legislature in order that the differences which were bound to arise should disappear. Home Rule was no new thing, for it was enjoyed by no less than twenty-five of the English dependencies. When the Imperial Parliament had been so lavish and prodigal in giving Home Kule to other countries, why refuse it to Ireland ? especially considering the moderate proposals of Mr. Gladstone. One of the objections which had been raised was

something to this effect : "Oh ! those Irish fellows don't want Home Rule ; they want separation." Now, as pointed out by the last speaker, if Hoem Rule was given would England be any the less able to prevent separation ? Home Rule had existed in Ireland in the past, and it whs only taken away in consequence of bribery and corruption unparalleled in the annals of history. — (Hear.) The cry of disintegration and dismemberment of the Empire was no new one. The same cry was raised when O'Connell was struggling for Catholic emancipation. The act which perhaps beyond all others had brought home to the minds of all the wonderful nature of the British Empire was the act of a Catholic and a son of Ireland, Mr. Dalley, of Sydney, who sent the New South Wales Contingent to the Soudan. Sir Gavan Duffy, another Catholic and Irishman, was the first advocate of federation. When the British Empire was attended with danger — when the Russian scars was on — Irishmen were not the last to come forward nod enrol themselves, not to destroy, but to maiutain the unity of the Empire. — ( Applause.) Why was this ? Because here and in the other comiiies they lived under a free Government. Here, if: they were industrons, they enjoyed the fruits of their labour, and what was the more obvious less jn to be learnt? Was it not that if Irishmen have in their own country the liberal laws and the other privileges which they elsewhere enjoy the same happy results will follow f An, Irishman was not a fool, as many hon. gentlemen may have found out for themselves. An Irishman knew on what side his bread was buttered also as well as his Scotch brother ; and if he were placed under the favourable circumstances which had been indicated in his own country, he would cause no trouble. He did not want dismemberment. If anything wculd have the effect of making Ireland seek separation from England it was the refusal to give Home Rule, and keeping the country in a constant state ot discontent. — (Applause.) Mr. Fitchett spoke against the motion, arguing that Ireland had been a plotting place in the past, and that for her own protection England should take all precautions against h j r secession. Ireland's troubles had been great, but England and Scotland had alßo suffered from bad statesmanship. Was Ireland to have Home Rule, and to be placed on a different footing to Scotland and England hers Iff Mr. Gladstone's policy was one of fear, and uot of justice. How came it that he only now sees justice in lulind's claims? (_Mr. Cohen : Better late than never ) Were it not that eighty or ninety Parnellites came down to the House pledi/ed to vote for Home Rule, Mr. Glndscone's sense of justice would nothav. been so conspicuously keen. The evils which Ireland suffered from vere not to be banished by the establishment of a Parliament in I>ublin, and there was no halting-place between the present state of •lungs and separation. Was it likely that these men who bad ur_ici their demands with dynamite, assassination, and crime would be moderate when they got a Parliament 1 Ireland, when it got Home Rule, would become a spawning ground for treason and plots. Mr. Darling strongly supported the motion. He thought that the granting ot Irel nd's claims was more likely to result in her becoming a source of strength to England than an alien. Tbe treatment of Ireland by England was onlj equalled by Russia's domination over Poland. Jtlr. Milne opposed the motion, and Mr. W. A. Stout supported it^ Professor Brown did not consider that the Gladstone Bill was a fair measure of Government to Ireland, and lie had very grave doubts whether it would maintain intact the unit of the Empire. Mr, Gladstone's action was not tromptod by a sense of justice, but inspired mainly by fear. His Bill w.is unsatisfactory on the following points : — No representation was^iven in the English House of Parliament, and at the same time Ireland was taxed. It overlooked tbe claims <>f a most important portion of the Irish people who had always remained loyal. UKter was to be treated in such a manner tbat she was laying in a store of rifles to protect herself. A third objection was the danger of separation lesulting from a Parliament which was only one in name. Ireland must find out that she ha'i got only the appearance of self-government, without the reality, and the result of the scheme would bo to sow the seeds of discontent, and to provide the means whereby that discontent might be made dangerous. Dr. Oolquhoun, rephine to the last speaker, said that it was a misrepresentation of Mr. Gladstone's Bill to say that no representation was given to Ireland, for the Prime Minister had distinctly stated that he left the details of his measure to the House. It must be acknowledged that the Irish members had agreed to this taxation without representation. Professor Brown had t tken a curious method of convincing tbe House as to the loyalty of Ulster. It stood to reason that in eveiy great national movement there must b; two sides, and a compromise must be conceded by one. The separation so much feared was only one in name, and he believed it would lead to a closer unity. We in the colonies should hope that this concession to Ireland meant the first step in the federation of the Empire. There could be no federation without true and reliable local selfgovernment ; and the great obstacle to the federation of the British Empire was England herself. He hoped that if the resolution was passed the House would see their way to telegraph it Home. Mr. A. L. Smith supported the motion. He said that anyone conversant with the iniquitous record of fearful crimes perpetrated in Ireland must attribute the cause to bad legislation. Mr. Gladstone had come forward simply to assert the principle of self-government to Ireland, and had left to the House the consideration of many matters of detail. He (the speaker) ventured to predict that Mr. Gladstone would be sent back to power with an overwhelming mandate from the people to carry out his beneficent proposal, and thus crown his great and glorious career. Mr. Hodire opposed the motion. At ten o'clock, Mr. J. T. Norman moved the adjournment of the debate.