"FREE DEBATE" IN ENGLAND.

New Zealand Tablet, Volume XI, Issue 6, 1 June 1883, Page 5

"FREE DEBATE" IN ENGLAND.

(Prom the New York Sun.) Two nights ago, in company with a well-known American who is engaged in business in London, I went to one of the " Free Discussion Clubs "of this city. The hall in which the meeting was held is in Salisbury street, near Fleet street. Here the Bohemians of the Press and the friends of the leading politicians, Conservative and Liberal, some authors and editors, and many others representing all shades of political and social ideas, have been wont to assemble for a hundred years. On the transparency on the front of the building is the following : " Free Discussion Hall," whish, of course, I took to indicate the spirit of toleration which marked the debates of the club. I was told that a " breezy time " might be expected on the particular evening of my visit, as the all-absorbing question was to engage the attention of the audience — I mean the Irish question. On entering the hall I noticed that about 200 men were present. Some were old, say from Bixty to eighty years, some of middle age, and some appeared to be no more than twenty. After waiting a few minutes the " Grand," as the Chairman is called, made his appearance, and soon the meeting was called to order. Unlike our American audiences, most of those present kept on their hats all through the evening, while others sat with uncovered heads. The Grand opened the exercises by stating that he was most happy to announce an arrangement by which, hereafter, the evening's discussions would be opened alternately by a Liberal and a Conservative. On this occasion he was pleased to introduce a Conservative gentleman who was well known to , London society, and he gave his name as Mr. Fairchild. This individual was expected to give a review of the affairs of the week, and in so doing to express his own views upon them. Accordingly, Mr. F. began by making reference to French affairs. He showed very clearly that he hoped Republican Government in France would prove an utter failure. Then he passed on to Egypt, and alluded to matters there in a manner not at all complimentary to the Gladstone Government. He next spoke of the Bradlaugh business, and predicted that an Affirmation Act must be passed in order to meet such cases. Touching then upon the question of municipal reform for London, he very soon struck the Irish rock, and then, for the first time during his review, the whole audience seemed to feel that he had hit upon a living issue. Not many minntes were devoted to Ireland, but what the reviewer had to say sufficiently indicated his opposition to the present Liberal Government of that country, and that he longed for an era of Conservative rule therein. He referred to the recent arrest of Mr. Healy and his companions, and regretted that a far greater number of Irish leaders were not also arrested and put in gaol. When Mr. Fairchild had finished, an Irishman, whose name was not announced, took the floor. The first word uttered by this son of the Emerald Isle was " Davitt." At this there nasa roar of derisive laughter. " Don't laugh, gentlemen," said this Irishman, adding, " Mr. Davitt is a greater man and a better man than any of you in this room." At this there was uproar and confusion, mingled with taunts, jeers and laughter. " You call this a free discussion hall," said this Irishman, "but when you hear an Irish patriot praised, and the wrongs of Ireland suitably characterised, *y° v show a spirit of intolerance, and an entire absence of the love of freedom which you profess." At this several persons in the room cried, " Time, time," and "We have heard all we want of that." This brought the Grand on his feet to say, " This gentleman has a right to be heard. Under the rules of this club he must be allowed to express his views without interruption." At this a hundred voices saying, "Hear, hear," were beard in approval. The Irishman then proceeded, and the way in which he poured hot shot into the English was certainly enlivening, especially to the American spectators. One or two other speeches were made, and then Dr. Everett, an American gentleman who was present, took the floor, and introduced Gen. Con way, of New York, who said he had made an extensive tour through Ireland ; that he had taken great pains to gather information from all sources, Catholic, Protestant, Liberal, Conservative, landlords, tenants, shopkeepers, lawyers, judges, editors, and others, and the result was a few convictions which, by the permission of the audience, he would briefly express. *' First of all," said Gen. Conway, " there seems to be too much politics and too little liberty in Ireland." " Everybody talks politics," but he had " not seen a free man, woman or child in all Ireland." " Secondly," said the speaker, " I saw too much government and too little justice in Ireland " ; adding : " Wherever I turned my eyes I saw a fcoldier, or a constable, or a magistrate, or a Government official of some kind, all a dead weight and a burden upon an impoverished people " ; and "in every public place " the gentleman ' saw posted a Government proclamation intended to terrorize the people." He had " been in the cabins of the poor, and there he observed the heavy hand of injustice, and it was folly to deny it or to attempt to dispose of it by a wave of the hand, as one would dispose of a cobweb." " Thirdly," said the speaker, "it seems to me that Ireland is troubled with too many laws and too little statesmanship. ' It's against the law ' is an expression one hears in that country at every turn. The wonder is that all the people in Ireland are not in gaol for violating some law or other. But there seems to be no statesmanship jfeown in any of the laws in Ireland. '"• Fourthly," said the General, " I think Ireland has too many soldiers and too few schoolmasters." At this several Englishmen broke forth in unseemly remarks, which were soon stopped by the Grand. Then Gen. Couway said : — " So long as brute force is relied upon to improve Ireland, just so long that country will be a thorn in England's side. Substitute schoolmasters for soldiers and schoolhouses for forts and barracks, and then the world will look on and nay Ireland is blessed with wise statesmanship." " Again," remarked Gen. Conway, " I found universal suspicion in Ireland, and no confidence, The soldier, policeman, judge, con-

stable, landlord and tenant— all suspicious, afraid of everybody. We had this in our slave-States before the war. It was an outgrowth of the barbarism of slavery, and was only ended by wiping out that horrible institution. Let England abolish slavery in Ireland, and I think the same result will follow as has been experienced in the United States." Now the General stirred up a hornet's nest, and a dozen members took the floor at once, each striving to outdo the others in protestations against such aspersions upon the honour of England. Again the Grand reminded the members that freedom of discussion must be allowed. "Much as I admire your great statesman, Mr. Gladstone," said the speaker, as he renewed his remarks, " I think you need a man for the crisis which is upon you in England. I wish you had such a man as we in the United States had in the moment of our peril— l mean William H. Seward, a man who dared to face the popular prejudice, and to defy it, as he did when he proclaimed the doctrine of an irrepressible conflict between slavery and freedom. You need a Seward in the British Parliament, and you need an Abraham Lincoln in Ireland to proclaim liberty, equality, and humanity.' Now, there was another uproar, whioh again brought the Grand to his feet to defend the honour of the club. " I repeat it," said the speaker, " and you need to learn it as a lesson of real wisdom as well as of sound statesmanship, that Ireland wants less of the spirit of Oliver Cromwell and more of the spirit of Abraham Lincoln." The meeting then adjourned.