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1880. NEW ZEALAND.
RAILWAY COMMISSION (REPORT OF.)
Presented to both Souses of the General Assembly by Command of Sis Excellency,
COMMISSION.
Victoria, by the grace of G-od, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland Queen, Defender of the Faith, to our trusty and loving subjects, James McCosh Clark, of Auckland, in the Colony of New Zealand, Esquire; Oswald Curtis, of Nelson, in the said colony, Esquire; Edward Peaece, of Wellington, in the said colony, Esquire ; John Eeid, of Elderslie, Oamaru, in the said colony, Esquire; Edward George Weight, of Winslow, Ashburton, in the said colony, Esquire, greeting : Whereas the Governor of our said colony hath, by and with the advice and consent of the Executive Council thereof, deemed it expedient that a Commission should be forthwith issued for the purposes and in the manner hereinafter set forth: Now, therefore, know ye that we, reposing great trust and confidence in your zeal, knowledge, and ability, do, by these presents, constitute and appoint you, the said James McCosh Clark, Oswald Curtis, Edwaed Pearce, John Eeid, and Edwaed George "Weight, to be our Commissioners for the purpose of making inquiry into the cost and economical value of the several lines of railway of which portions yet remain to be constructed, in order to complete such lines of railway, and also as to all other lines of railway proposed to be constructed or completed, whether as continuations or extensions of any of the railways before mentioned, or as independent lines ; and we authorize and empower you, or any three or more of you, for the purposes aforesaid, to make full inquiry into the actual working and cost of any line of railway already constructed and in working order, or that may be in such order before you do report to us as herein provided, and that you shall make inquiry respecting such proposed lines of railway as you may be informed "by our Government in New Zealand are Hues of railway proposed to be constructed as part of the general railway system, it being the intention of these presents that you shall make a full and complete investigation and inquiry into the matters aforesaid in the most full and ample manner. And for the better enabling you to carry these presents into effect, we do authorize and empower you, or any three or more of you, to make and conduct any inquiry under these presents, at such place or places in the said colony as you may deem expedient, and to call before you such persons or person as you may judge necessary, by whom you may be better informed of the matters herein submitted for your consideration, and also to call for and examine all such books, documents, papers, maps, plans, accounts , or records as you shall judge likely to afford you the fullest information on the subject of this our Commission, and to inquire of and concerning the premises by all other lawful ways and means whatsoever. And our further will and pleasure is that you, or any three or more of you, do report to us, under your hands and seals (with as little delay as may be consistent with a due discharge of the duties hereby imposed upon you), your opinion on the several matters herein submitted for your consideration, with power to certify unto us from time to time your several proceedings in respect of any of the matters aforesaid if it may seem expedient for you so to do. And we do further declare that this our Commission shall continue in full force and virtue, and that you, our said Commissioners, or any three or more of you, shall and may from time to time proceed in the execution thereof and of every matter and thing therein contained, although the same be not continued from time to time by adjournment. In testimony whereof we have caused these our letters to be made patent, and the seal of the said colony to be hereunto affixed. Witness our trusty and well-beloved Sir Hercules George Eobert Eobinsoa, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, Governor and Commander-in-Chief in and over Her Majesty's Colony of New Zealand and its Dependencies, and Vice-Admiral of the same; and issued under the Seal of the said Colony, at Wellington, this twenty-third day of February, in the Tear of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and eighty. John Hall. Hercules Kobiuson. Issued in Executive Council: Fokster Goring.
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REPORT.
To His Excellency Sir Hercules George Egbert Robinson, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, Governor and Commander-in-Chief in and over Her Majesty's Colony of New Zealand and its dependencies, and Vice-Admiral of the same. Sir, — 1. The Commission with which your Excellency has honored us was placed in our hands on the sth of March last. 2. We at once recognized that the wide scope of the inquiry intrusted to us would render necessary very active exertion on our part in order to acquire the information requisite to enahle us to furnish a complete report before the end of the then approaching session of Parliament. 3. After occupying two or three days in consultation as to the manner in which we could most efficiently obey your Excellency's instructions, and in making necessary preliminary arrangements, we left Wellington on the 9th of March, and employed the interval between that date and the Bth of June in examining the country through which it has been proposed to construct railways, and in taking evidence in reference to the projected lines in the various centres of population which we deemed it our duty to visit. 4. We could not hope, in the limited time which we considered ourselves at liberty to devote to the purpose, to follow the entire route, and still less the various competing routes, of every projected line of railway in both Islands of which a flying survey had been made; but we hoped to gain—and we venture to believe that we have gained—by our personal observation, a sufficient knowledge of the general character of the various districts of the colony through which it is proposed to construct railways, to enable us, not only more clearly to understand, and more thoroughly to appreciate the weight of, the evidence of settlers in the localities interested, and the information contained in the evidence and reports of the colonial engineers and other officers, than we otherwise could have done, but also to justify us in forming, in the majority of cases, an independent opinion based upon that observation. 5. It was our earnest desire to obtain, in every part of the country which time allowed us to visit, all the information which the residents were able and willing to give respecting the lines of railway in which they were respectively interested, and with this view we took care to have our future movements, so far as they could be definitely arranged, communicated to the newspapers in all parts of the colony through the Press Association, so that full time should be given for the collection and arrangement of the evidence which it might be thought desirable to submit to us. In addition to the notice thus given, we intimated, generally two or three days in advance, by telegraph, to members of the Legislature and heads of public bodies, the day of our intended arrival at each place, and the hour at which we should bo prepared to receive evidence. 6. With two or three exceptions, the public responded heartily to these invitations ; but it unfortunately happened, on the exceptional occasions we refer to, that a want of alacrity on the part of the leading men of the districts in preparing and bringing before us the information we had asked for, compelled us, in order to keep our engagements in other localities, to pursue our journey without taking all the evidence that might have been offered. In these cases, however, we requested that all information which had not been supplied might bo put in writing and forwarded to us in Wellington—a request which has been courteously complied with. 7. In some—indeed, in many—instances the opinions and recommendations which we shall submit to your Excellency in this report are at variance with the tenor of the evidence taken in the districts interested in proposals for the con-
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struction of railways. It is perhaps scarcely necessary to point out that settlers in all parts of the colony take an especial and not unnatural pride in their own particular district and in the progress it has niade, and that they are prone to attach a greater value to its existing resources, and to take a more sanguine view of its future, than can be acquiesced in by a dispassionate and unprejudiced observer. 8. At the outset of our investigation we were met by the fact that the alreadyconstructed railways of New Zealand do not, as a whole, yield a return sufficient to pay one-half of the interest upon their cost; and we felt it to be necessary, before we could take upon ourselves the responsibility of recommending the extension of existing or the construction of new lines, that we should endeavour to learn the causes to which this unsatisfactory state of things is attributable, and the extent, if any, to which those causes may be removed or their operation modified. 9. One leading cause is sufficiently apparent, and can only be remedied by time and the gradual progress of settlement which the resources of the colony will undoubtedly secure—we refer to the making of railways in some parts of the colony far in advance of existing settlement, and consequently of an amount of traffic adequate to their support. 10. The extent to which this fatal mistake has been made may be in some degree realized by a comparison of the relations between railways and population in this and other countries. In Great Britain the amount of population to each mile of railway is 1,961; in the United States, 580; in New South Wales, 1,108 ; in Victoria, 924 ; while in New Zealand we have only a population of 362 to each mile of railway already made. It should, however, be borne in mind in the consideration of these figures that our exports per head of the population are much larger than those of the neighbouring colonies, and that the country traversed by the railways of New Zealand is generally of a more fertile character than that served by the lines of Victoria and New South Wales, and is therefore calculated to provide a greater amount of traffic per mile of railway, although more thinly peopled. 11. In search of other and more immediately removable causes of the unprofitable results hitherto obtained from our constructed railways, we availed ourselves of the authority contained in our Commission to take evidence upon " the actual working and cost of lines of railway already constructed." 12. From the evidence tlvus taken, and by our personal observation and experience upon almost every mile of railway iioav open for traffic in the colony, we are led to the conclusion that the present expenditure may be, and ought to be, largely diminished by converting many small and unremunerative stations into flag-stations, by greatly reducing the train-mileage on many of the lines—the smaller branches especially —and by making the rates of wages more in accord with those paid by private employers of labour in the colony. 13. All the heavy, and almost all the paying, traffic of the branch lines in purely agricultural and pastoral districts is confined to the grain and wool seasons, which are almost concurrent; and during what may be termed the dull season —comprising about six months in each year —trains running during three or four days in each week would, in our opinion, meet all the requirements of the traffic, and would neither materially affect the receipts nor cause any serious inconvenience to the inhabitants of the districts affected by the change. 14. Our recommendation in reference to train-mileage, in short, amounts to this—that the running of trains should everywhere be reduced to the number that actually pay ; and the results would be found not only in the reduction of what is, strictly speaking, current expenditure, but probably still more in diminution of Avear and tear of the permanent way and rolling-stock of the lines thus relieved. 15. It is only right that we should say that action has recently been taken in some of the directions we have above indicated, and with good effect; but rriuch more remains to be done. 16. We have thus pointed out in brief terms the leading reforms by which, in our opinion, the current expenditure of our working railways could be safely reduced, apart from the question of reduction in the number and pay of the officers employed in the service, in reference to which we have not felt it to be within the
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scope of our Commission to make other than incidental inquiry ; and we content ourselves with respectfully requesting your Excellency's attention to such portions of the accompanying evidence as relate to the subject. 17. The receipts of revenue upon working railways are an element in the question of profit and loss of not less important bearing than the expenditure; and we felt it to be our duty to give to that branch of the subject at least an equal amount of consideration. 18. On comparing the railway tariff of New Zealand with those of the other Australian Colonies as regards the chief items of traffic, we find that, while the average of the rates charged 'upon the Australian railways for the haulage of wool and agricultural produce is somewhat lower than the rate upon those commodities current in New Zealand, on the other hand, the average Australian rate for minerals —a term which serves to include coal, building-stone, bones, bricks, clay, lime, and road-metal —is higher than the New Zealand rate to the following extent: — First 10 miles ... ... ... ... 80 per cent, higher. Prom 10 to 50 miles ... ... ... ... 9 „ „ From 50 to 100 miles ... ... ... ... 47 From 100 to 150 miles ... ... ... ... 80 „ „ or, taking coal by itself — First 10 miles ... ... ... ... 1G per cent, higher. From 10 to 50 miles ... ... ... ... 1% „ „ From 50 to 100 miles ... ... ... ... 33 „ „ From 100 to 150 miles ... ... ... ... 68 „ „ Without further inquiry, we are unable to form a decided opinion whether the New Zealand lines are carrying on this important part of their business at a heavy loss, or whether the other colonies are deriving from it an exorbitant profit; but we have little doubt that a closer investigation than we have been able to make would prove that the New Zealand taxpayer is the sufferer. 19. With respect to another leading branch of the traffic —rtimber—the evidence we have taken leads irresistibly to the conclusion that, whenever that product is carried under the existing tariff for a distance exceeding seventy-five miles, it is so carried at an absolute loss; and if at the same time the haulage is over heavy grades, the cost to the colony amounts to 50s. for every 20s. received to the credit of the Railway Account. 20. Having thus drawn your Excellency's attention to some of the main features of the tariff now in force upon our railways, we refrain from going into further details; but we desire to express our firm conviction that the maintenance of a uniform scale of charges, applicable to every railway in every part of the colony, without regard to the amount of business to bo done, the cost of the service performed, or the amount and nature of the competition to be overcome, is absolutely incompatible with a favourable return from the traffic so treated. 21. We urge, therefore, most strongly that the system of a uniform tariff should be abolished, and the railways conducted upon commercial principles—that is to say, by charging for each class of service upon each line a rate proportionate to the cost of that particular service upon that particular line, varied from time to time as competition shall increase or diminish. By this system some approach would be made to the spirit of the original proposal that every district through which a line was taken should make up by local contribution any deficiency arising from insufficiency of traffic to support the line and pay interest on its cost. 22. There is one other point in connection with the economical value of the constructed railways to which we feel bound to call your Excellency's attention. From the evidence of Mr. John Henry Lowe, the Engineer in charge of Constructed Railways in the Middle Island, there appears too much reason to believe that even the unsatisfactory contribution which the railways in operation are shown by the public accounts to make towards the interest upon the cost of their construction is not wholly substantial, and that no inconsiderable portion of that contribution should in prudence be placed to the credit of a depreciation fund. It may be urged that by the time that the present cost of repairs and
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renewals shows an appreciable increase, the traffic will have so far expanded that the additional expenditure will not be felt. "We trust that this may be the case; but in considering the economical value of our railways at the present time the matter cannot altogether be ignored. 23. The question of the administration of constructed railways is one upon which your Excellency has not commanded us to inquire and report; but, as it has been strongly impressed upon us in the course of our lengthened inquiry that many of the evils which it has been our duty to point out: —such as the uniform tariff, the maintenance of unremunerative stations, the running of unrcmunerative trains, and the adoption of a scale of wages above the current rates —are to a great extent the result of political pressure, both upon the Minister and upon the Comrnis"sioners of Railways for the North and Middle Island, we venture to make a recommendation upon the subject. 24. We are of opinion that the constructed railways of New Zealand should not continue to be, as at present, under the management of Commissioners, subject to the control of a Minister; and we recommend that, in place of that system, a Board of Management should be constituted, consisting chiefly of men of business knowledge and business habits, free from political influence, and having as nearly as may be the same status, holding the same powers, and exercising the same functions, as the Board of Directors of an English railway company. 25. We have now the honor to submit for the consideration of your Excellency our opinion and recommendation upon each line of partly-constructed and proposed railway in this colony. Kawakawa to Deep Water. A portion of this line has been constructed under a somewhat loose agreement with the Bay of Islands Coal Company, and we consider that the quality and quantity of the coal have been sufficiently proved to justify the completion of the work by continuing the line to deep water, subject to the condition that the guarantee of the Company should be extended to cover 6 per cent, interest upon the whole expenditure. By the original agreement the guarantee Avas limited to the interest upon £4-2,000, while the estimated cost of the work when completed to deep water is £92,000. As this line is not only the outlet to the coal field, but is moreover the key to the country between Kawakawa and Hokianga, we are of opinion that the colony should retain, the right to resume possession at any time, and that no further expenditure should be made until an agreement containing these stipulations has been executed by the Bay of Islands Company. , x Kawakawa to Hokianga. The extension of the Kawakawa line from the coal mines towards Hokianga will doubtless be desirable when the district is occupied by a European population; but there is not sufficient settlement to justify its present construction. WIIANGAKEI TO KAMO. Expenditure and liabilities to the extent of £35,634 have already been incurred upon this line, and we consider that it is expedient to complete it at once as far as Limeburners Creek, at which point vessels of moderate size can be loaded from the coal-shoots. But we recommend that no further extension be entertained until the coal field has been more extensively developed, and that, in the meantime, the charge for haulage should be fixed at a rate sufficient to pay interest on the cost of the work. We are unable to support the proposal for a branch line to the Whangarei Town Wharf. Auckland to Riveiuiead. We are of opinion that the construction of the line from Helensville to lliverhead was justifiable as the means of improving the communication between Auckland and the whole of the Kaipara District; but, in view of the good watercarriage between lliverhead and Auckland, and taking into account the poor character of the intervening country, we look upon the expenditure which has been made between Newmarket and lliverhead as unwarranted.
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It has, however, advanced so far that it must be continued until the work is completed; but when it is so we think it would be advisable to close the portion of the line from the junction to Riverhead Wharf except for the haulage of baulk timber, or we are convinced that the line will be unable to compete successfully with the water-carriage. Helensville to KaukapakaPxl and Whangarei. The estimated cost of this line is about £800,000. The character of the country is unfavourable to railway construction from an engineering point of view, the ruling grades being lin 50 throughout; and still more so as regards the prospect of settlement upon the land. The line would, moreover, have to be worked in competition with good water-carriage on both sides of the route. We do not, therefore, recommend any expenditure upon it. Auckland Station Reclamation. We do not consider that this work was necessary for station purposes. It is, however, so far advanced that we can only recommend that it be finished to the extent of the original proposal in the least expensive manner practicable. PUKEKOHE TO WaITJKU. Ordinary road-making is difficult and expensive in this part of the country owing to the absence of metal, while the railway works would not be of a costly nature. There is a considerable existing population, and the line would serve a fair extent of country both north and south. We recommend it for construction when further funds are available. Hamilton to Te Anon a. The district through which this line would pass is of but recent occupation by Europeans, and the existing population is small. We think, therefore, that the work as a whole would be premature, and we can only support the present construction of the three or four miles towards Morrinsville, which Avould form part of the line to Cambridge. The remainder, we think, may well stand over for some time to come ; but if, during the next two or three years, the anticipations of a large increase in settlement now entertained by those interested in the district should be realized, we recommend that the work should then be proceeded with as soon as further funds are available. Hamilton to Cambridge. The country between these townships has been long settled, and there is a considerable resident population. There is also a large extent of back country to support a railway, which we recommend for construction. Geahamstown to Te Aroha. W"e are of opinion that the good water communication which exists between these two points makes railway communication unnecessary in the present state of the district as regards settlement. It is a matter for regret that the reclamation at Grahamstown and Shortland should have been entered upon before the construction of the railway itself; and we consider that expensive reclamation for two station-sites close together was quite unjustifiable. Te Awamutu to New Plymouth. As the country through which it has been projected to carry this line is all in the hands of the Natives, and as little or nothing is known of its character from an engineering point of view, we are not prepared to advise that it should be proceeded with. Tatjranga to the Lakes. The proposal to construct this line at present we look upon as quite out of the question. The country is for the most part in the hands of the Natives, and the existing traffic is almost entirely confined to that supplied by tourists.
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Taupo to Mtjrimttttt. This aiso we look upon as a line of the future, the construction of which must be preceded by European settlement. Kopua to Makotoko. This portion of the main trunk line is so nearly completed that we have only to recommend that the work be finished as soon as practicable. Makotoko to Woodville. We are of opinion that this section should stand over for the present, and that all funds which may become available for the Wellington and Napier line should be devoted to the completion of the Wellington and Woodville portion, with a view to open communication between Wellington and the West Coast, as well as subsequently between Wellington and Napier. We are confirmed in this recommendation by the fact that the land between Woodville and Makotoko is for the most part Native property. Napier to Wallingford. This line is projected to run through difficult country along the coast, where there is but a very limited amount of settlement; and so far as it may be considered to be a main line, it would be inexpedient to construct it, as it would come into competition with the trunk railway between Wellington and Napier. Napier to Taupo. The proposal for a line of railway from Napier to Taupo we consider to be altogether premature. Napier to Gisborne. The country through which it is proposed to make this line is very rough, there is but a limited extent of Crown land to be served by it, and we see nothing to justify us in recommending its construction. Stratford to Hawera. This section is part of the main line between Foxton and New Plymouth. It is now in progress, and, as it will open up a large extent of land suited for settlement, we advise its early completion. Hawera to Waverley. This portion of the main line passes through good country ; bat, as it will be more expensive in construction than that between Stratford and Hawera, and there is already a good dray-road, we recommend that contracts for the work be not called for until the more northerly section is completed and open for traffic. Waverley to Kai-iwi. This is an important portion of the main line, of which a large part is already completed. We think the remainder, which is now in progress, should be finished and opened for traffic as soon as practicable. The land it passes through is good, and there is already a large amount of settlement. NORMANBY TO OPUNAKE. This is a branch line through the Waimate Plain to the coast, with little population to support it, the construction of which we think should be postponed until the main lines connecting the East and West Coasts with Wellington have been completed. Eeatherston to Masterton. The contracts upon this section are approaching completion. It opens up a district supporting a large population who have been long settled, and it will be the means of increasing the traffic upon the portion of the line which is now open.
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Masterton to Opaki and Mauriceville. This is a further section of the main line which we consider it desirable to proceed with without delay. It will make available a large extent of bushland suitable for small-farm settlement, and it also taps a considerable block of good Crown land, a great part of which is of limestone formation. Mauriceville to Woodville. We are of opinion that this section of the main trunk line should be one of the first to be proceeded with when farther funds are available. It intersects a large block of good Crown land, and will add materially to the traffic on the line now in operation. Woodville to Bunnytiiorpe. This line, proposed to be carried through the Manawatu Gorge on the north bank of the river, will form the connecting link between Wanganui and Wellington, and Napier and Wanganui. The cost of construction will, however, be heavy, the estimate of the engineers being £139,000 ; and we recommend that it be not proceeded with until communication between Wellington and Woodville has been first established. Wellington to Foxton. This line would be in direct competition with that which we recommend should be constructed by way of the Manawatu Gorge. But, apart from that fact, we consider that the proposal is premature, on the ground that a large part of the country it would open up is still in the hands of Native owners; and inexpedient, on the ground that the value of the land which the line would serve has teen greatly overrated, and that the undertaking Avould be an unprofitable one, which the colony would not be justified in entering upon. We advise that the expenditure iioav going on at the Wellington end of the line be at once stopped, and the labour employed thereon transferred to the Masterton and Mauriceville " Section. Greattord to Bulls. This is a short branch of four miles in length. It would be expensive to work, and it appears to us that the district is already fairly supplied with railway communication. Bulls to Sandon. Sandon is within eight or nine miles of Greatf ord Station on the one side, and it is about the same distance from Feilding Station on the other. The proposal is one which we cannot recommend. Petone to Waiwetu. This small branch, of about two miles in length, appears to be designed to meet a traffic to the Hutt Racecourse, which arises for a few days only in each year, and we cannot advise that it should be constructed. Opawa to Blenheim. This small section, crossing the river into the Town of Blenheim, is nearly completed, and we believe will be the means of improving the returns of the original section from Picton, of which, in our opinion, it should have formed a part. Blenheim to Awatere. The land which this extension would serve is good enough, both in quality and quantity, to justify the expenditure; but, as the district is wholly in the hands of a few large holders, and has not been settled to any extent, we consider that the execution of the work should be preceded by increased settlement, or the immediate prospect of it by the subdivision of the properties. Subject to this condition we recommend the construction of the extension when further funds are available, ii—E 3.
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AWATEEE TO HURITNUI. The construction of this coast-line could only be justified on the ground that it might form part of a future main trunk railway, as it would open but a very limited area of agricultural land in proportion to the cost of the work. We consider the proposal to be altogether premature. Blenheim to Hotjndell. Neither the extent of agricultural land in the district which this line would traverse, nor the prospect of increased settlement to arise from its construction, is sufficient to induce us to recommend expenditure upon it. EOXHILL TO BELGROVE. This short extension, which is now completed, or nearly so, will render more available a moderate amount of bush-country, sufficient to justify the cost of the work. Belgrove to Hotjndell. Except as part of a trunk line from Nelson to Greym.ou.th, this section would not yield a return sufficient to warrant its construction, which we cannot, therefore, recommend. ROUNDELL TO NELSON CREEK. Between Houndell and the Hope there is no inducement to agricultural settlement. Between the Hope and Nelson Creek, although the mineral wealth of the district is beyond dispute, the industry connected with it does not afford sufficient traffic to warrant the large outlay required for the construction of this line. Owing to the great extent of bush-land which is now opened up by railways throughout the colony, there is not sufficient inducement to make a railway on account of the timber. That the west coast of the Middle Island does not offer much inducement to agricultural settlement, is patent from the fact that, notwithstanding the large population which has been employed in gold-mining for the last fifteen years, and the consequent demand for agricultural produce at extreme prices, the total area of land cleared for farming purposes during all those years is of such very limited extent. The character of the country is difficult throughout, and the portion of the work between Hampden and the Inangahua Junction would be very costly. The length of this line from Belgrove to Nelson Creek is 1-10 miles, and the estimated cost £1,200,000. Nelson Cheek to Brunnerton. This extension would form the key to the trafiic of the whole of the mining districts of the Grey Valley, and would improve the receipts of the existing section. It could be worked with economy on account of the low price of fuel and the small addition to the present staff which would be required. We recommend its construction without delay. Nelson to Mottjeka. The line would run for many miles of its length through poor and broken country, and is rendered less necessary by good and far more direct communication between Nelson and Motueka by water. Westport to Inangahtta. This would be an exceedingly costly work, and would afford no present prospect of a reasonable return for the outlay. Westport to Ngakawaho. In our opinion this line should not have been begun until the coal-owners were in a position to put trafllc upon it; and we think that haulage rates should be charged upon a scale calculated to meet, as far as possible, the interest upon the large cost of its construction.
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Greymouth to Hokitika. There does not appear to be a prospect of a sufficient traffic between these two rival ports, in the improvement of each of which large sums of money are being expended, to justify proceeding with this work. The line, as laid out, runs along the coast, and would not be conducive to settlement to an extent sufficient to provide profitable traffic for many years to come. The traffic of the alternative route, by way of Kumara, is already carried on between that township and Greymouth by a tramway laid down by private means; and we consider that the present wants of the district are thereby sufficiently provided for. The traffic to the townships of Goldsborough and Stafford is not of magnitude enough to call for railway communication. Hokitika to the East Coast by Browning's Pass, Brunnerton to Oxford and Greymouth to Amberley. The large cost of either of these lines, and the limited traffic which could be calculated upon, make it, in our opinion, necessary to postpone the construction of any one of them for, at all events, some years to come. When the condition of the colony, both as regards population and finance, makes railway communication between the East and West Coasts a feasible project, further exploration will be essential before a route is finally decided upon. Amberley to Waikari. This section is now in course of construction, and we consider it desirable that the portion of it from Amberley to the foot of the Weka Pass should be opened for traffic as soon as possible, and that effort should be made to finish the remainder in time for the next grain season. Waikari to Hukunui. This section would serve about 195,000 acres of agricultural land north of the Hurunui, and w rould probably cause a large portion of it to be brought under cultivation. In the whole the line would carry the trade, both import and export, of an area of 1,395,000 acres, and we recommend its early construction. As the Hurunui is already bridged for dray traffic, we think that the terminus of this section should be on the soiith bank of the river. Lincoln to Lake Forsyte:. The works upon this section are in progress, and should be completed to the end of the seventeen miles now under contact. A railway to that point will bring Akaroa to within an easy journey of Christchurch, and will probably take the greater part of the passenger traffic which now goes by sea. Lake Eorsyth to Little River. This section would be more expensive than that from Lincoln to Lake Eorsyth, and would not, we consider, add materially to its traffic. We therefore do not think it desirable to continue the line beyond the last-named point. Little River to Akaroa. The works upon this line would be generally expensive, and would involve the construction of a long tunnel; the population of the district is comparatively small, and we do not see a sufficient prospect of a remunerative return for the outlay to induce us to recommend that it should be incurred. Tinwald to Mount Somers. ■ This branch is already in progress. The cost will be small, and it will serve a large agricultural district, and at the same time open out a coal mine and stone quarries at Mount Somers, which it may fairly be calculated will bring considerable traffic to the line.
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The area of country to which it will afford improved means of communication comprises 120,000 acres of agricultural and 530,000 acres of good pastoral land, a large portion of which is still in the hands of the Crown. Albtjry to Fairlie Creek. Also in course of construction. The section already opened is one of the most profltahle in the colony, and the extension will pass through an agricultural district, which is rapidly becoming settled. The Crown land which will be served by this line comprises 54,000 acres of agricultural and 1,000,000 acres of open pastoral land, in addition to 210,000 acres of freehold agricultural and 100,000 acres of freehold pastoral land. Fairlie Creek to Burke's Pass. The extension to Fairlie Creek will sufficiently serve the agricultural country to the entrance of the Pass; a further extension would be of little value unless continued through the Pass into the Mackenzie country; and the present progress of settlement in that district would not justify the expenditure. "Waimate Branch Extension to Waihoa Valley. As an addition of ten miles to the present short branch this extension could be worked at a very small increase upon the cost of the present service; and the quality and quantity of the land to be served, together with the already advanced stage of settlement in the district, induce us to recommend its construction as soon as further funds are available. A survey has already been made, at the cost of the residents, and the site for the line is promised free of charge. COALGATE TO BjAKAIA GORGE, The line from Homebush to Hororata cannot be recommended as part of the proposed Canterbury Interior Main Line, which, as a whole, we altogether condemn ; but an extension of the White Cliffs branch to the Gorge of the Rakaia will hereafter be desirable with a view to its ultimate continuation to the Acheron Coal Field, which is the most valuable yet found on the eastern side of the Middle Island. As regards the alternative routes by way of the Wairiri Valley and the Hororata Downs, the balance of advantages and disadvantages in each case is nearly equal. The Hororata route would serve the largest number of settlers, and would also be the cheaper to construct; while that by the Wairiri Valley is shorter, and would open up some seams of brown coal of the same quality as that obtained at Glentunnel. We consider the latter to be the preferable route; but, as we do not recommend the early construction of either line, and as circumstances may materially change before a final decision upon this point will be required, we do not think it necessary to enter more fully into that part of the subject. Perrymead to Sumner. We recommend this line for early construction. A portion of it, to the old railway wharf, is already made, and lying idle; and we believe that, when completed, it will not only bring in handsome returns upon its cost, but will also add considerably to the traffic on the main line. SOUTHBRIDGE TO EAKAIA AND WATERTON. The construction of this line would involve great expense in bridging the Rakaia and Ashburton Rivers, while it would compete for traffic with the main line as regards all stations between Rakaia and Winslow. On these grounds we think it desirable that the work should not be undertaken. Cave to St. Andrew's. We are of opinion that the district which it is proposed to serve by this line is already fairly provided for by the main line and the Albury branch.
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Sheffield to Waianiwaniwa. This would be merely a connecting link between two short branch lines. It would pass over difficult country, and we see nothing to recommend it. Oxford to Sheffield. This connecting line would supply the railway system north of Kaiapoi, as well as the inhabitants of North Canterbury, with cheap coal. The bridges are already built, as well as the stations at each end, and the train-mileage and maintenance would be the only additions to the existing expenses of the Railway Department. We recommend the early completion of this section; but we offer our suggestion that the junction with the Springfield line should be at Sheffield, and not at Waddington, in case the abandonment of the Interior Main Line should be determined upon in accordance with the recommendation contained in this report. COALGATE TO TeMTTKA. This railway is generally known as the Canterbury Interior Main Line. Its construction would entail very heavy expenditure in bridging the Selwyn, the Rakaia, four branches of the Ashburton, the Hinds, the Rangitata, the Orari, and some minor streams. The traffic over it would, in our opinion, be small in proportion to the cost of the work, and the districts through which it would pass are already to a great extent served by the existing branch lines. Any further development of those districts would, we are convinced, be more economically and more efficiently promoted by the formation of additional branch lines and the extension of existing ones as the expenditure becomes warranted by the progress of settlement in the back country. Orari to Kakahu. This district generally is within reasonable distance from the main line, and it does not appear to us that additional railway facilities are required at present. Sheffield to Hawkins. This small branch, amounting to little more than a siding, is proposed as a means of opening up a coal mine and pottery works. We recommend that it be constructed upon the terms usually imposed for the accommodation of a siding, but with the condition that all excess over the usual cost of a siding be paid by the proprietors of the mine. DUNTROON TO HakATERAMEA. The extension of this line to a point on the bank of the Waitaki opposite to the entrance of the Hakateramea Valley will be inexpensive, and is desirable in view of the facts that it will serve the large agricultural district in that valley, and will also receive the traffic of the Upper Waitaki. We recommend that, if this line is not completed in the meantime under the District Railways Act, the Government should, when further funds are available, endeavour to obtain possession of it and finish its construction. We further advise that the w Torks already in progress on the short section of fifty chains between the present terminus and the Village of Duntroon be completed. Windsor to Livingston. The completion of the ten miles beyond Windsor now in hand will meet the present requirements of the district; and we think that the remaining four miles should not be proceeded with until a reliable survey has been made to determine whether it is practicable to extend the line to Naseby, as, should it prove to be so, it might be desirable to take the required rise from the terminus of the tenmile section. Palmerston to Waihemo. Three miles of this branch are already completed, and we advise that the line should be continued to the most convenient point near to, but eastward of, Jordan's. There is at present a large traffic by wagon to the interior by this route, and a considerable agricultural population is settled in the Waihemo Valley.
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Shag Point. We see no reason why the Government should purchase this line, and we consider that the rates of haulage should he raised to a point covering the cost of working it. Otag-o Central. We are of opinion that the circumstances and requirements of the colony do not warrant the construction of this costly line of railway, for which the engineer's estimate is £1,100,000. But a very small proportion of the land through which the route has heen surveyed is at all fit for agricultural purposes, and the population spread over the district is far too limited to afford encouragement for an expenditure so large as that proposed for this line. The works through the Taieri Gorge, a distance of over thirty miles, are of a very difficult and expensive nature, consisting to a great extent of a succession of curves through rock-cutting; and, as there is no access from the country on either side this portion of the line must remain totally unproductive. When the necessity arises for a railway to tap that part of the interior of Otago which comprises the Maniototo Plains, the Ida Valley, the Dunstan District, and the Upper Clutha, careful surveys should he made with a view to find a cheaper and shorter route, and one which would pass through a smaller extent of unprofitable country. From the evidence brought before us upon this subject, we think special attention should be given to the survey of the country between Livingstone and Naseby, as a line by this route would shorten the communication between the interior and a port of shipment by many miles. We desire to express our regret that so much money has already been spent between Hindon and Mosgiel, as from our examination of the line we can come to no other conclusion than that it would be for the best interests of the colony to abandon it. The entire undertaking is, in our opinion, uncalled for, and should not have been commenced. Lawrence to Tapanui. This line would pass through a difficult country, destitute of population, and there is nothing to lead us to believe that railway communication will be required for many years. Waipahi to Kelso. This line, commonly known as the Tapanui line, is under construction. It will serve a good country, and should, we think, be completed without delay. Kelso to Switzers. We think it would be desirable to make a portion of this line—namely, about four miles from Kelso towards Switzers —as it would pass through good agricultural country, and would to some extent give increased value to Crown lands. This extension would make the total length of the Waipahi-Kelso branch about twenty miles, and would add little to its working expenses. We do not recommend any farther extension towards Switzers at present. Kelso to Waikaka. We cannot recommend the construction of this line, as Waikaka is situated within about eight miles from the Waimea District Railway, and ten or twelve miles from the main trunk line. Lawrence to Roxburgh. The unprofitable results hitherto obtained from the branch from Clarksville to Lawrence, and the broken character of the country beyond, form the grounds on which we decline to recommend the proposed extension. Balcltjtha to Catlin's River. The limited amount of existing settlement in the district, the fact that the land which it would serve is chiefly bush, and the expense consequent upon the
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rugged character of a portion of the route, compel us to recommend that this line should not be constructed at present. As regards the prospect of timber traffic, water-carriage would, in our opinion, compete successfully with the proposed railway. The section to Owaka would be the least expensive portion to construct, but would, we fear, be too short a line to give fair prospect of paying its working expenses. Wakatipu to Lake McKerrow. This is a proposal to run a line of railway from the mouth of the Greenstone River on Lake Wakatipu to the head of Lake McKcrrow, a distance of about forty-five miles, whence there is water communication with Martin's Bay. The height of the saddle to be crossed is about 2,500 feet. We do not think it would be prudent to incur the expenditure required for this work unless a very large development of mining industry on this part of the West Coast should afford a prospect of remunerative return. Green Island to Kaitangata. This is a proposal for a coast-line at a distance of only a few miles from the main south line, and running parallel with it. We are unable to recommend its construction. Outram to Clarendon. This is a scheme to convert the Mosgiel and Outram branch into a loop-line from Mosgiel to Clarendon. No portion of the proposed connection would be distant more than six or seven miles from the main line, and we cannot recommend the expenditure required. Kingston to Cromwell. This line would have to be taken along the rocky and precipitous shores of Lake Wakatipu, and it would have to compete with cheap water-carriage between Kingston and Queenstown. We do not think the work would be remunerative or that there is any rational ground for its construction. Edendale to Toitois. The section from Edendale to Wyndham is nearly completed. We recommend an extension of about eight and a half miles along the left bank of the Mataura, to a point from Avhich the Avhole of the Toitois District is accessible; an addition which we believe would be productive of better financial results than could be expected from working the short line now in progress by itself. Invercarglll and Seaward Bush. The Seaward Bush is tapped by tramways from the main line, so that reasonable means of transport for the timber are already provided; and, as the terminus of the proposed line would be within about five miles of the main line, with which the whole section would run nearly parallel, we do not recommend that it be constructed. RIVERTON TO OREPUKI. About six miles of this branch are already nearly finished, which will be of little use unless extended. The timber through which the additional mileage would pass, the coal and oil-shale deposits at Orepuki, combined with a considerable area of good agricultural land and the gold-mining industry of the district, afford prospect of a satisfactory return for the outlay upon the extension to Orepuki, which we recommend should be made. The line would, moreover, tend to promote settlement in the Waiau Valley, which, as well as Orepuki, is at present completely isolated. Otatttatt to Nightcaps. About four miles of this line are nearly completed', and we do net recommend any further extension until the extent and value of the coal field at Nightcaps
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have been more fully ascertained, especially as supplies of coal for railway purposes can be obtained at Orepuki if our recommendation in reference to that line be acted upon. Prom an agricultural point of view the district is sufficiently served by the four-mile section above referred to. Mababoa to Otautau. The country is rugged, and occupied only as sheep-runs. We consider that the line would not be remunerative, and we do not recommend that it be constructed. Waimba Valley. Had this line been constructed by the colony, it should, in our opinion, have been carried along the Waikaka side of the Mataura for a considerable portion of its length. It passes through a large extent of very fertile land, but the district is as yet devoid of population ; and, although we see reason to believe that the Waimea Valley branch will ultimately form an important feature in the railway system of the South, we cannot recommend that the work should be purchased by the colony. Winton to Nightcaps. We see no sufficient reason for the construction of a line of railway between these two points, and cannot recommend the expenditure. LIIMSDEN TO MABABOA. Notwithstanding the expenditure which has already been made upon this work, the paucity of population in the district and the limited area of land under cultivation induce us to recommend that no further outlay be incurred but that the railway bridge over the Oreti should be decked and thrown open for dray traffic. Eor greater convenience of reference we classify the above recommendations under four distinct heads. Recommended to be pboceeded with at once. Kawakawa to deep water. Lincoln to Lake Eorsyth. Whangarei-Kamo to Limeburners Tinwald to Mount Somers. Creek. Albury to Eahiie Creek. Auckland to Riverhead. Eerrymead to Sumner. Auckland Station Reclamation. Oxford to Sheffield. Hamilton to Cambridge, including Sheffield to Hawkins. four miles towards Te Aroha. Duntroon Station to Duntroon Kopua to Makatoko. Village. Stratford to Hawera. Windsor towards Livingstone, ten Waverley to Kai-Iwi. miles. Eeatherston to Masterton. Palmerston to Waihemo. Masterton to Mauriceville. Waipahi to Kelso. Opawa to Blenheim. Kelso towards Switzers, four miles. Eoxhill to Belgrove. Edendale towards Toitois. Nelson Creek to Brunnerton. Riverton to Orepuki. Amberley to Hurunui. Otautau towards Nightcaps, four miles. Recommended to be pboceeded with when ftjbtheb Eunds abe available. Pukekohe to Waiuku. Blenheim to Awatere. Hawera to Waverley. Waimate Branch Extension. Mauriceville to Woodville. Duntroon to Hakateramea. Woodville to Bunnythorpe.
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Recommended to be postponed. Kawakawa to Hokianga. Nelson to Motueka. Whangarei - Kamo, Limeburners Greymouth to Hokitika. Creek to deep water. Lake Eorsyth to Little River. Hamilton to Te Aroha. Eairlie Creek to Burke's Pass. Grahamstown to Te Aroha. Coalgate to Rakaia Gorge. Te Awamutu to New Plymouth.. Southbridge to Rakaia and WaterTauranga to the Lakes. ton. Makatoko to Woodville. Orari to Kakahn. Napier to Taupo. From four miles beyond Kelso to Normanby to Opunake. Switzers. Belgrove to Roundell. Balclutha to Catlin's River. Roundell to Nelson Creek. Lumsden to Mararoa. Not recommended. Helensville to Kaukapakapa and Cave to St. Andrews. Whangarei. Sheffield to Waianiwaniwa. Taupo to Murimotu. Coalgate to Temuka. (Canterbury Napier to Wallingford. interior.) Napier to Gisborne. Otago Central. Wellington to Eoxton. Lawrence to Tapanui. Greatford to Bulls. Kelso to Waikaka. Bulls to Sandon. Lawrence to Roxburgh. Petone to Waiwetu. Wakatipu to Lake McKerrow. Awatere to Hurunui. Green Island to Kaitangata. Blenheim to Roundell. Outram to Clarendon. Westport to Inangahua. Kingston to Cromwell. Hokitika to East Coast. Invercargill to Seaward Bush. Brunnerton to Oxford. Mararoa to Otautau. Greymouth to Amberley. Winton to Nightcaps. Little River to Akaroa. We attach to this report the whole of the evidence which we have taken in the course of our inquiry. Given under our hands and seals this 24-th day of July, 1880— Oswald Curtis. J. M. Clark. Edward Pearce. John Reid. Edward G. Wrioht.
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We append the following tables, most of which we caused to be compiled for our guidance:— 0. C. J. M. c. E. P. J. E. E. a. W. Table I.—Showing in a concise form the amount of profit or loss upon each section of railway in the North Island, and upon the different sections of the main line and upon each branch line in the South Island. This result has hitherto been shown only in the aggregate, and previous returns have also been misleading to the extent that they did not take into account the cost of each line, and consequently did not show the true result derived from it. Table 2.—Showing approximately the amounts expended, the liabilities incurred, and the sums required to complete all railways in course of construction. Owing to neglect on the part of the Public "Works Department, this return, and also the preceding one, instead of being furnished in the true figures, are approximate only. Table 3.—Showing the mileage and estimated cost of certain proposed railways. Table 4.—Showing the gross receipts on constructed railways for a period of years, and the mileage open in each year. Table s.—Showing the acreage and value of the land which would be served by constructed and proposed railways. Owing to an omission on the part of the Public Works Department to forward the full instructions of the Commission to the Surveyor-General, these returns have not been prepared upon a uniform basis. The figures in this table are necessarily only approximate, but they have been prepared with evident care and judgment, with the exception of the returns from Auckland, Nelson, and "Westland. Table 6.—Showing the work done by the several types of locomotives employed in the colony The Tables above referred to shall be forwarded as soon as printed,
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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
Feiday, sth Maech, 1880. The Royal Commission on Railways met at the office of the Hon. the Minister for Public "Works. Present: Messrs. Curtis and Wright, and Colonel Pearce. The Minister for Public "Works read His Excellency the Governor's warrant appointing the Commission. The Minister for Public "Works placed before the Commission several applications for the offices of secretary and reporter. The Commission then adjourned till next day at 11 a.m.
Saturday, 6th March, 1880. The Commission met at 11 a.m. Present .- Messrs. Clark, Curtis, and Wright, and Colonel Pearce. The applications for the offices of secretary and reporter were further considered. Resolved, That Mr. William Mitchell be appointed reporter. Mr. Curtis was requested to ask the attendance of Mr. Edward Downey at the next meeting of the Commission. The Commission then adjourned till Monday, the Bth instant, at the Parliamentary Buildings.
Monday, Bth Maech, 1880. The Commission met at 11 a.m. in the Parliamentary Buildings. Present: Messrs. Clark, Curtis, Eeid, and "Wright, and Colonel Pearce. Colonel Pearce was voted to the chair, pro tern. Resolved, That Mr. Curtis be Chairman of the Commission. Mr. Curtis, having acknowledged the compliment paid to him, took the chair. Mr. Edward Downey being in attendance, the Chairman informed him that the Commission had it under consideration to appoint him to the otlice of secretary, with the understanding that he will act as reporter when required. Mr. Downey, having consented to this proposal, withdrew. Resolved, That Mr. Edward Downey be appointed secretary. Resolved, That the Chairman shall only vote when there is an equality of voices. Resolved, That the proceedings shall not be open to the public, but that the Secretary be authorized to communicate to the Press the times and places of the sittings of the Commission, the subject under consideration, and the names of the witnesses examined ; also the times and places of future meetings, and the subject to be considered. Resolved, That Mr. Wright and Mr. Clark be a sub-Committee, to prepare schedules of information required respecting the working of existing lines, and also of other information as to the extent and character .of the country which would be served by lines in construction or proposed. Adjourned till noon next day.
Tuesday, 9th March, 1880. The Commission met at noon in the Parliamentary Buildings. Present; The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Messrs. Clark, Reid, and "Wright, and Colonel Pearce. The minutes of previous meetings were read and confirmed. Messrs. Clark and Wright, the sub-Committee appointed to prepare information respecting working of existing lines, and the extent and character of the country which would be served by lines in construction or proposed, brought up draft schedules of required information. The schedules were considered and agreed to, and the Secretary instructed to forward them to the Under-Secretary of Public Works Department. The Commission then adjourned, and the Commissioners proceeded in the afternoon to examine the work done on the Wellington-Foxton line between Kaiwara and Johnsonville.
Wednesday, 10th Maech, 1880. The Commission met at G-reytown. Present: All the members. The following witnesses were sworn and examined ; Mr. John Blackett, Engineer in Charge, North Island, and Mr. George Ashcroft, General Manager, Wellington-Featherston Eailway.
Wednesday, 10th Makch, 1880, The Commission met at Masterton. Present: All the members; The Commission received a deputation consisting of the Mayor and Corporation of Masterton, Who urged the importance of completing the line of railway from Masterton to Bunnythorpe.
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Thursday, 11th Mabch, 1880. The Commission met at Woodville. Present: All the members. The evidence of Mr. Frasi, licensed surveyor, was taken.
Thuesdat, 11th Maech, 1880. The Commission met at Palmerston. Present: All the members. The Commission received a deputation from the Township of Bulls, who urged the construction of the line from Greatford to Bulls, and also the line from "Wellington to the West Coast by way of Foxton, Carnarvon, and Bulls.
Feidat, 12th Mabch, 1880. The Commission met at Palmerston. Present: All the members. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Mr. H. Jackson, surveyor, and Mr. J. T. Stewart, District Engineer. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of the Mayor and Corporation of Palmerston, who urged the construction of the railway from "Wellington to West Coast to Palmerston direct.
Friday, 12th March, 1880. The Commission met at Bulls. Present: All the members. The Commission heard statements from Colonel Gorton and Messrs. T. Munro and Sanson in support of connecting Bulls with Q-reatford, and also with Foxton, by railway.
Friday, 12th Maech, 1880. The Commission met at IToxton. Present: All the members. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Mr. B. S. Thynne and Mr. G-. "W". Russell.
Saturday, 13th Maech, 1880. The Commission met at Otaki. Present : All the members. The Commission took evidence from Mr. Sydney Smith, clerk to Hastwell, Macara and Co., coachproprietors.
Monday, 15th Maech, 1880. The Commission met at 3 p.m. in the Parliamentary Buildings. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Reid. The minutes of previous meetings were read and confirmed. The Secretary was instructed to obtain, through the Under-Secretary for Public Works, an estimate of the amount which will be available for the construction of railways during the three years ending the 31st March, 1883. The Secretary was instructed, in reply to a letter from the Under-Secretary for Public Works, to send the following amended heading for Return D : " Return showing Acreage and Description of Land calculated to contribute either Passenger or Goods Traffic to each line of Railway constructed, in course of construction, or proposed." (A separate return to be made for each branch or section of main line.) Resolved, That the Under-Secretary for Public "Works be requested, in reply to his letter of the 11th March, 1830, No. 1010, to furnish the returns asked for to the extent of the information already in the possession of the department, leaving further details to be supplied as soon as they can be collected. The Under-Secretary to be further requested to forward such returns for the Middle Island with as little delay as possible. The Commission then adjourned till 11 a.m. next day.
Tuesday, 16th March, 1880. Tie Commission met at 11 a.m. in the Parliamentary Buildings. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Keid. The minutes of previous meeting were read and confirmed. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. Brandon, Hutchison, W. W. Johnston, and Levin, M.H.B.s, Mr. W. T. L. Travers, and Mr. James Wallace, a committee appointed at a public meeting held recently in Wellington to urge upon the G overnment the construction of the WellingtonWest Coast Eailwaj's. Mr. Travers made a statement and handed in returns and maps relating to the proposed railway routes between Wellington and the West Coast. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken with respect to the Wellington-Foxton Bailway: The Bishop of Wellington, Mr. Blackett, Engineer in Charge, North Island, and Messrs. Braithwaite and Gear.
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■Wednesday, 17th Mabch, 1880. The Commission met at 11 a.m. in the Parliamentary Buildings. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce. and Mr. Eeid. The minutes of previous meeting were read and confirmed. The evidence of Mr. Richard John Gill, TTnder-Secretary, Native Land Purchase Department, was taken. The Commission then adjourned.
Saturday, 20th Mabch, 1880. The Commission met at 2.30 p.m. in the Public "Works Office, Christchurch. Present: The Chairman. (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received, a deputation consisting of Messrs. John Beaumont, John Deans, J. Mcllwraith, and Dr. Turnbull, who urged that, instead of constructing the line, for which tenders had been called for by the Government, from Home Bush to Hororata, the line should be taken from Sheffield to Coalgate, through the Waianiwaniwa Valley, thence to Grlentunnel, and on through the Wairiri Valley to Eakaia Gorge. The Commission took evidence from Mr. Albert Duncan Austin, District Engineer.
Tuesday, 23rd Mabcii, 1880. The Commission met at Sheffield. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation from the ratepayers of the district, consisting of Dr. Meadows, Messrs. VV. Kossiter, McMillan, Taylor, Browne, Lilly, and Heighway, who urged that the line of railway from West Oxford to Sheffield should be brought not to Waddington but to the Township of Sheffield. The deputation also represented, in reference to the extension of the line from Sheffield, that the Commission should take into consideration proposed routes through Russell's Flat, Pig Saddle, South Malvern, and the Waianiwaniwa and Wairiri Valleys.
Wednesday, 24th Maech, 1880. The Commission met at Hurunui. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission took evidence from Mr. P. Wither, Assistant Engineer.
Wednesday, 31st Maech, 1880. The Commission met at Balclutha. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Captain Andrew, sawmiller, and Mr. Hay, settler.
Thursday, Ist April, 1880. The Commission met at Tapanui. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. IST. McMillen (Mayor of Tapanui), W. Quin, D. McKellar, J. McFarlane, E. H. Fisher, A. McGregor, B. Washer, C. Hawson, J. Eodger, J. Meir, and Dr. Douglas, who urged that the terminus of the Waipahi-Tapanui Eailway should be at the Town of Tapanui, instead of at Kelso.
Monday, sth Apkil, 1880. The Commission met at Invercargill. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of the Hon. W. Wood, M.L.C., Messrs. Bain, M.H.R., McCaughan, M.H.R., Shanks, M.H.R., Denniston, Dairymple, Finn, Lumsden, Mitchell, Murray, McNab, Turnbull, and Wade, who urged the desirability of constructing the Seaward Bush Railway. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Mr. D. McArthur, Inspector of Forests ; Mr. Alexander McNab, Clerk, Invercargill Land Office ; Mr. Alexander McNab, farmer; Mr. P. Dalrymple, farmer ; Mr. James Murray, contractor ; Mr. Gr. Lumsden,'Commissioner of Southland Waste Lands Board ; and the Hon. W. Wood, M.L.C. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. Brown, Millar, Mossa, and Mclntyre, who urged that the Forest Hill Tramway should branch off the Invercargill-Kingston Railway at Wilson's Crossing, taking a northerly direction to the foot of the Hokanui Hills. Evidence respecting traffic on Southland railways was taken from the following witnesses : Mr. T. Arthur, Greneral Manager, and Mr. B. McKellar, Stationmaster, Invercargill.
Monday, sth Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Riverton. Present : The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received, a deputation from the citizens of Riverton, consisting of Messrs. J. Reid (Mayor), T. Daniel, J. Taylor, Berndtson, Mills, Locke, and Petchell, who urged the completion of the Riverton-Orepuki Railway. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. J. R. Mills, T. Daniel, James Taylor, B. Berndtson, and J. Reid.
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Tuesday, 6th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Orepuki. Present : Mr. Wright (in the chair), Mr. Clark, and Mr. Eeid. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Mr. 11.I 1. Eeichel, miner; Mr. T. Armstrong, miner; Mr. Eiddell, carpenter ; Mr. A. McPherson, farmer ; and Mr. H. Hirst, M.H.E.
"Wednesday, 7th April, 1880. The Commission met at Invercargill. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission took further evidence from Mr. T. Arthur, General Manager, Southland Railways.
Monday, 12th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Clyde. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. B. Nay lor (Member for Dunstan Hiding, Vincent County), J. IT. Cambridge, and G-. Fache, who urged that the construction of the Otago Central Eailway should be proceeded with as quickly as possible.
Tuesday, 13th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Naseby. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. Inder (Mayor), Wilson, Grlenu, R. H. Brown (County Engineer), Busch, N. P. Hjorring, H. W. Bobinson (Warden), and Allen, who urged the desirability of constructing the central railway, and of bringing that line along the Naseby side of Taieri Lake.
Wednesday, 14th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Hyde. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission received a deputation from the Hyde Progress Committee, consisting of Messrs. J. Laverty (Chairman), T. H. Ritchie (Secretary), P. Lawton, E. O'Connell, J. O'Brien, R. Boyd, and P. Kinney, who urged the desirability of constructing the Otago Central Railway as speedily as possible.
Thursday, 15th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Palmerston. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce. Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Mr. M. Fagan (Mayor), Councillors D. Munro, J. McDonald, "W. Little, E. H. Cathcart, Messrs. J. Arkle, J. McKenzie, B. O'Neill, and T. M. Smith, who represented that the railway passenger-station was inadequate for requirements, and that the Government, by taking away part of Eonald Street for railway purposes, had rendered ordinary traffic dangerous, owing to the narrowness of the road. They also urged the desirability of completing and extending the Waihemo Branch Eailway.
Friday, 16th Apkil, 1880. The Commission met at Dunedin. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Mr. J. P. Maitland, Chief Commissioner of Crown Lands, Otago ; Mr. C. Y. O'Connor, Assistant Engineer in Charge; Mr. Alexander Grant, General Manager, Otago Railways. The Commission received a deputation from the Chamber of Commerce, consisting of Messrs. E. B. Cargill (Chairman), J. T. Mackerras, R. Wilson, G. C. Matheson, J. S. Webb (Secretary), who urged that full inquiry should be made respecting the Otago Central Railway.
Satueday, 17th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Dunedin. Present .- The Chairman (Mr, Curtis) and Colonel Pearce. The Commission received a deputation from the Shag Point Eailwa} r Company, consisting of Mr. E. D. Eich (Director), and Mr. W. H. Williams (Manager), who urged that the Government should take over the Shag Point Eailway, and recoup the Company for their outlay.
Monday, 19th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Dunedin. Present: The Chairman (Mr Curtis), Mr. Clark, and Colonel Pearce. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Mr. W. Arthur, Chief Surveyor, and Mr. David Barron, District Surveyor.
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Tuesday, 20th Apeix, 1880. The Commission met at Oamaru. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Eeid. The Commission received a deputation from the Oamaru-lSTaseby Railway Committee, consisting of Messrs. Shrimski, M.H.R., S. Gribbs (Mayor), Gr. Sumpter, ,T. Lees, and T. C. Dennison, who urged that a proper working survey should be made of the proposed line of railway from Oamaru to Naseby via the Maerewhenua Pass.
Thuesdat, 22nd April, 1880. The Commission met at "Waimate. Present: Colonel Pearce (in the chair), Mr. Clark, Mr. Reid, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. J. Manchester (Mayor), J. E. Parker (Chairman of the "Waimate Railway Company), J. Douglas, J. McGregor, C.8., J. Lees, P. Slee (Secretary, Waimate Railway Company), N. Hillary (County Council Engineer), M. Studholme, C. R. Howard, and "W. J. Steward, who urged that the "Waimate Branch Railway should be extended through Waihao Valley. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. J. McGregor, C.E., J. E. Parker, M. Studholme, S. Green, F. Slee, and N. Hillary.
Feiday, 23bd Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Timaru. Present: Colonel Pearce (in thS chair), Mr. Clark, Mr. Reid, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Captain Suiter (Mayor), Messrs. Turnbull, M.H.R., D. McLean, Jonas, Stubbs, Bruce, Evans, and Green, who represented that a new and more commodious railway station was required at Timaru ; and that great loss and inconvenience were caused owing to the want of cattle-yards at Timaru Station. They also urged the extension of the Albury Branch liailway to Fairlio Creek. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Mr. Willian Evans, merchant; Mr. Mark Jonas, auctioneer; Mr. Henry Green, merchant; Mr. F. W. Stubbs, land valuer; and Mr. D. McLean, auctioneer.
Saturday, 24th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Ashburton. Present: Colonel Pearce (in the chair), Mr. Clark, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Mr. H. JYiedlander (Mayor), Councillors E. Saunders, A. Orr, J. St. Hill, T. Bullock, Messrs. J. Grigg, F. B. Passmore, J. Carter, J. Jamieson, and C. P. Cox, who represented that the railway-station accommodation at Ashburton was inadequate, and urged the desirability of extending the Ashburton Branch Railway to Mount Somers. The eyidence of the following witnesses was taken : Messrs. C. P. Cox, H. Friedlander, J. Grigg and F. B. Passmore.
Mondat, 26th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Christehurch. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Sir J. Cracroft Wilson, C.8., K.5.1., Captain Hayter, Messrs. E. Wilkins, H. H. Hannah, James Lance, G. D. Leng, J. H. Davidson, E. Bethel, and J. Tinline, who advocated the extension of the railway from Amberley to Hurunui. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. J. Tinline, G. D. Leng, J. Lance, and J. H. Davidson. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Dr. Turnbull, Messrs. Cowlishaw, Coulson, Deans, Mcllwraith, Wilson, Crawford, Jerrard, Murchison, G-. Peacocke, Mitchell, T. Phillips, Charters, J. Beaumont, and TTpton, who urged that the railway should be extended from Sheffield to Coalgate through the Waianiwaniwa Valley, thence to G-lentunnel, and on through the Wairiri Valley to the •Eakaia G-orge, instead of taking the line from Homebush to Hororata. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. Eobert Coulson, W. Jerrard, J. Mcllwraith, J. Crawford, John Murchison, G. Peacocke, E. Mitchell, W. Wilson, and Dr. Turnbull.
Tuesday, 27th Apeil, 1880. The Commission met at Akaroa. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received, a deputation consisting of Messrs. Jacob Waeckrele (Major), J. D. Grarwood (Chairman of Railway Committee), J. Dalglish, Or. E. Joblin, G. Sexton, W. Birdling, J. Smith, J. B. Barker, "W\ Coop, and H. Piper, who urged the desirability of constructing the Akaroa Sailway. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs "W. Coop, G-. E. Joblin, H. Piper, J. Smith, and J, B. Barker.
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THTTE3DAT, 29TH APEIL, 1880. The Commission met at Christchurch. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs W. M. Hannay, Traffic Manager, Temuka-Paknerston Section, and J. H. Lowe, Engineer for Constructed Railways, Middle Island. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. T. "W. Adams, James Gough, A. D. Mcllwraith, and M. Crosbie, who urged that a line of railway should be constructed from the main south line at the north bank of the Selwyn Eiver, following the road from the main south line along the north bank of the Selwyn, through Greendale, crossing the "Waiareka, to the junction with Bealey's track, and thence by the Hororata Valley in a direct line to the Rakaia Gorge. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. T. W. Adams, J. Gough, and A. D. Mcllwraith.
Friday, 30rn Apkjx, 1880. The Commission met at Christchurch. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. E. C. J. Stevens, M.H.R., J. T. Fisher, M.H.E., J. T. Ford, W. Langdown, E. Banks, and "W. Jones, who advocated the construction of a railway from Christchurch to Sumner. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken • Messrs. Frederick Back (General Manager, Christchurch Eailways), J. T. Ford, J. L. Wilson, Gr. P. Williams, M.1.C.E., and Allison Smith (Locomotive Engineer, Amberley-Palmerston Sections). The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs.,J. Jebson, J. Austin, H. Kirk, J. E. Hanson, William Prudhoe, F. Hudson, and H. Stewart, who requested that a branch line or siding might be constructed from Sheffield Eailway Station to the Hawkins.
Monday, 3kd Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Hokitika. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of the Hon. Mr. Bonar, M.L.C., Mr. Eeid, M.H.E , Mr. M. L. Jack (Mayor), Mr. J. S. Lang (Chairman Westland County Council), Mr. Robinson, and Mr. Malfroy, who urged the desirability of constructing a railway from the East Coast to the "West Coast, and also of completing, without delay, the Greymouth-Hokitika Eailway. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Messrs. Robinson, Mueller (Chief Surveyor), J. Malfroy, M. L. Jack, J. S. Lang, and J. Frew, C.E.
Monday, 3ed Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Kumara. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. J. J. Pearn (Mayor), J. Wylde (Town Clerk), Councillors E. Blake and A. C. Campbell, who urged the desirability of completing the Grreymouth-Hokitika Eailway, with a deviation of the line to Kumara. The evidence of Mr. E. Blake was taken.
Tuesday, 4th Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Greymouth. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. E. Masters, M.H.E., E. Nancarrow (Mayor), A. E. Guinness (Chairman of County Council), M. Kennedy ; County Councillors J. Marshall, D. Madden, J. Eeid, J. M. Clifford, W. H. Boase, A. Ellis, P. Eoley; Borough Councillors J. Kilgour, ~W\ J. Coates, J. G-. Thomas, P. B. Cameron, and I\ C. Dupre, who urged the desirability of extending the railway from Brunnerton to Nelson Creek, and also of completing the Greymouth-Hokitika Eailway via Kumara. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. T. Eonayne (Greneral Manager, Brunner Eailway), E. Butler, and J. Marshall.
Tuesday, 4th Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Reefton. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of Mr. P. Brennan, Chairman, Inangahua County Council, was taken.
Saturday, Bth Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Nelson. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Reid, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. Pitt, M.H.E., Acton-Adams, M.H.E., A. J. Bichmond,M,li. R.. J. E. Dodson (Mayor), J. W. Barnicoat (Chairman, Waimea County Council), and White (Chairman, Waimea Eoad Board), who urged the desirability of constructing a railway from Nelson to the West Coast.
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The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. W. Lightfoot, J. Eibet, ActonAdams, 6. Lloyd, W. I\ Fogden, E. Orr, Thomas Mackay (Deputy Commissioner of Land-Tax), W. Stone (General Manager, Nelson and Foxhill Eailway),and J. G. Blackett (Resident Engineer, Nelson and Marlborough).
Tuesday, 11th Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Blenheim. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Beitf, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of. Captain Kenny, M.H.It., Messrs. A. P. Seymour, M.H.E., A. G. Fell, C. Goulter, .T. Ward, and J. E. Hodson, who urged the desirability of constructing a railway from Blenheim to Awatere. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. H. Gr. Clark (Commissioner of Crown Lands), A. Ward, A. G. Fell, C. Goulter, J. Ward, J. E. Hodsou, A. P. Seymour, H. C. Seymour (Traffic Manager, Blenheim Eailway).
Monday, 17th Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Normanby. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. C. H. Beresford, C. E. Gibson, D. McGregor, F. H. Brett, Johnston, and G-. V. Bate, who made representations as to the choice of a railway-station site. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. C. E. Gibson; I\ H. Brett, G. V. Bate, and. C. Quinn.
Tuesday, 18th Mat, 1880. The Commission met at New Plymouth. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Messrs. R. W. Holmes (Resident Engineer), J. D. Harris (Traffic Manager), and Mr. T. Humphries (Chief Surveyor). The Commission received a deputation consisting of Colonel Trimble, M.11U., Messrs. J. Caverhill, W. D. Webster, and W. K. Hulke, who made representations with respect to railway management, and the extension qi: the railway to Hawera.
Thtjesdat, 20th Mix, 1380. The Commission met at Auckland. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation from the Auckland Harbour Board, consisting of Captain D. H. McKenzie (Chairman) and Captain W. C. Daldy, who urged that the harbour reclamation works should be finished. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Captain D. 11. McKenzie and Captain Daldy. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Mr. J. W. Eobinson (Mayor of Parnell) and Mr. 8. Beynolds (Town Clerk), who urged that a passenger station or platform should be erected in the Borough of Parnell. The evidence of Mr. J. "W. Eobinson was taken.
Saturday, 22nd Max, 18SG. The Commission met at "Waiuku. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Major B. Harris, M.H.K., Major I). H. Lusk, Messrs. E. Hamlin, M.H.E., J. "Wallace, E. Bent, W. Harris, E. Constable, H. Crispe, C. Hoskins, J. Mellsopp, and Gr. Selby, who urged the desirability of constructing a branch railway from Pukekohe to Waiuku. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Major D. H. Lusk, Messrs. Hamlin and Crispe. '
Monday, 24th Max, 1880. The Commission met at Hamilton. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Dr. Beale (Mayor), Messrs. J. B. Whyto, M.H.li., JP. A. Whitaker, M.H. 11., Vialou, McG-arrigle, and Breakell, who urged the desirability of proceeding with the Hamilton-Te Aroha Railway and the Cambridge Branch Railway. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Messrs. J. R. Vialou and W. C. Breakell, C.E.
Tuesdat, 25th Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Cambridge. Present : The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark,,Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Messrs. R. 11. D. Fergusson, I. Sheehan, M.H.R., F. A. Whitaker, M.H.E., J. B. "Whyte, M.H.K., J. liunciman, W. Leslie, B. B. Walker, W. iv—E. 3.
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"Williams, W. A. Graham, T. Wells, J. P. Campbell, Gwynneth, Breakell, and Major Wilson, who urged the desirability of constructing a branch railway from Hamilton to Cambridge. The evidence of the following; witnesses was taken: Messrs. E. H. D. Eergusson, T. Wells, J. Sheehan, M.H.E., J. Gwynneth, W. C. Breakell, and I\ A. Whitaker, M.H.R.
Friday, 28th Max, 1880. The Commission met at Grahamstown. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Dr. Kilgour, Captain Souter, Messrs. Brodie, Ehrenfried, McGregor, Carpenter, Hogg, Harcourt, Buttel, Mennie, Hollis, Hennelly, Dean, and J. A. Miller, who urged the desirability of proceeding with the Thames-Te Aroha Railway. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Dr. Kilgour, Captain Souter, Messrs. W. Davies, J. Walker, E. Comer, A. Brodie, L. Ehrenfried, G. T. Wilkinson, H. Alley, P. Strange, J. Elliott, and A. Aitken.
Monday, 31st Mat, 1880. The Commission met at Auckland. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearoe, and Mr. "Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Messrs. J. Burtt, A. V. Macdonald (G-eneral Manager of Railways, Auckland), and J. Stewart, C.E. (District Engineer).
Tuesday, Ist June, 1880. The Commission met at Whangarei. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. "Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Messrs. Charles B. Knorpp, C.E., and Joseph Bennett.
Wednesday 2nd June, 1880. The Commission met at Kawakawa. Present; The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Messrs. T. D. Triphook, Resident Engineer, and T. T. Moody, Manager of the Bay of Islands Coal Company.
Saturday, sth June, 1880. The Commission met at Napier. Present : The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken : Messrs. "W. Harker and W. J. Miller, General Manager, Napier-Kopua Railway.
Wednesdat, 23ed June, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission received a deputation consisting of Sir W. Mtzherbert, K.C.M.G., Messrs T Mason, M.H.E., W. W. Johnston, M.H.R., H. Bunny, M.H.E., J. Barton, C.E., D. Climie., C.E., H. Jackson, E. Morgan, J. Cruickshank, A. Cruickshank, J. Brown, E. Lyon, T. Power, and W. A. Eitzherbert, C.E., who urged the construction of the Hutt-Waikanae Railway. The following witnesses were examined: Messrs. H. Jackson, D. Climie, C.E., W. A. Eitzherbert, and J. Barton.
Thursday, 24th June, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis),. Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission considered recommendations to be embodied in their report. The evidence of Mr. Thomas Mackay, Government Agent, Nelson and Westland Coal Fields was taken.
Feidat, 25th Jtoe, 1880. The Commission, met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission, further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report. °
Satuedat, 26th June, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr, Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in. their report.
XXVII
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Monday, 28th June, 1880. The Commission meb at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Mr. Eeid, Colonel Pearee, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Tuesday, 29th June, 1880. The Commission met at "Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Beid, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Wednesday, 30th June, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearee, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Thuesday, Ist July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearee, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Fbiday, 2nd July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present; The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearee, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
I Satuebat, 3rd Jult, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Monday, sth July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of Mr. William Conyers, Commissioner of Railways, Middle Island, was taken.
Tuesday, 6th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright._ Further evidence was taken from Mr. William Convers, Commissioner of Railways, Middle Island. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
"Wednesday, 7th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington; 'Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. Further evidence was taken from Mr. William Conyers, Commissioner of Railways, Middle Island. Evidence was taken from Mr. Watson Shennan. The Chairman moved the following resolution : " That in the present state of the finances of the colony it is expedient that the construction of branch lines of railway should be left to the operation of the District Railways Act, or postponed, and that all funds now available, and likely to be available, for railway purposes for some years to come should be applied to the completion of main trunk lines through both Islands, and to the construction of lines calculated to promote the development of the mineral products of the colony, especially coal."—Negatived. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Thttesday, Bth July, 1880. The Commission met at "Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
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Fbiday, 9th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Sattjbdat, 10th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken: Mr. Thomas F. Eotherham, District Manager, Patea-Manawatu Railway; Mr. W. N. Blair, M.1.C.8., Engineer in Charge, Middle Island ; and Mr. E. E. Ohudleigh. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Mondax, 12th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of Mr. John Knowles, Under-Secretary for Public Worts, was taken. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Tuesday, 13th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. "Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Wednesday, 14th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. The evidence of Mr. John Lawson, Commissioner of Railways, North Island', was taken. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Thtjesdat, 15th Juirr, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Reid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission further considered the recommendations to be embodied in their report.
Fkidat, IGth July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearee, Mr. Reid, and Mr. "Wright. The evidence of the following witnesses was taken ! Mr. John Lawson, Commissioner of Railways, North Island; Mr. John Blackett, C.E., Engineer in Charge, North Island. The Commission, considered a draft report.
Saturday, 17th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. 'Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. Eeid, and Mr. Wright. Tho Commission further considered a draft report.
Monday, 19th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, Mr. B,eid, and Mr. Wright. The Commission agreed to a report.
Tuesday, 20th July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present; The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission revised proofs, and collated tables and returns.
Wednesday, 21st July, 1880. The Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission revised proofs, and collated tables and returns.
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Thursday, 22nd July, 1880. Tho Commission met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission revised proofs, and collated tables and returns.
Feiday, 23rd July, 1880. The Commission met at "Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commission revised proofs, and collated tables and returns.
Satukdat, 24th July, 1880. Tho Commi fusion met at Wellington. Present: The Chairman (Mr. Curtis), Mr. Clark, Colonel Pearce, and Mr. Wright. The Commissioners signed their report, and transmitted same to His Excellency the
G-overnor,
v.—E. 3.
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INDEX TO LOCALITIES WHERE EVIDENCE WAS TAKEN.
PAGE Akaroa ... ... ... ... 82 Ashburtou ... ... ... ... 70 Auckland ... ... ... ...146,168 Balelutba ... ... ... ... 24 Blenheim ... ... ... ... 136 Bulls ... ... ... ... 7 Cambridge ... ... ... ... 154 Christchurch ... ... ... 20,74,87,100 Clyde ... ... ... ... 41 Dunedin ... ... ... 48, 55, 57 Poxton ... ... ... ... 8 ftrahamstown ... ... ... ... 158 ftreymouth ... ... ... ... 118 Greytown ... ... ... ... 1 Hamilton ... ... ... ... 152 Hokilika ... ... ... ... 109 Hurunui ... ... ... ... 22 Hyde ... ... ... ... 44 Invercargill ... ... ... ... 27, 40 Kawakawa ... ... ... ... 178 Kumara ... ... ... ... 117
PAGE Napier ... ... ... ... 180 Naseby ... ... ... ... 42 Nelson ... ... ... ... 124 New Plymouth... ... ... ... 143 Normanby ... ... ... ... 142 Oamaru ... ... ... ... 60 Orepuki ... ... ... ... 37 Otaki ... ... ... ... ]1 Palmerston ... ... ... ... 45 Palmerston North ... ... ... 5 Reefton ... ... ... ... 121 Riserton ... ... ... ... 35 Sheffield ... ... ... ... 21 Tapanui ... ... ... ... 25 Timaru ... ... ... ... 68 Waimate ... ... ... ... 62 | Waiuku ... ... ... ... 148 I Wellington 12,18,183,187,189,196,198, 201,201,205, 206 I Whangarei ... ... ... ... 175 Woodville ... ... ... ... 3
INDEX TO WITNESSES, ETC.
PAGE Adams, Mr. Acton, M.H.R. ... ... 127 Adams, Mr. T. W. ... ... ... 97 Aitken, Mr. Alexander ... ... ... 168 Alderton, Mr. G. E. ... ... ... 177 Alley, Mr. Henry ... ... ... 166 Andrew, Captain Robert ... ... ... 24 Arkle, Mr. J. ... ... ... 45 Armstrong, Mr. Thomas ... ... ... 39 Arthur, Mr. Thomas ... ... ... 33, 40 Arthur, Mr. William ... ... ... 59 Ashcroft, Mr. George ... ... ... 1 Außtin, Mr. Albert Duncan ... ... 20 Back, Mr. Frederick ... ... 101,103 Bain, Mr. J. W., M.H.R. ... ... ... 27 Barker, Mr. John B. ... ... ... 86 Barron, Mr. David ... ... ... 57 Barton, Mr. John ... ... ... 186 Bate, Mr. ft. V. ... ... ... 142 Beale, Dr. ... ... ... ... 152 Beaumont, Mr. ... ... ... 20 Bennett, Mr. Joseph ... ... ... 176 Berndtson, Mr. B. ... ... ... 37 Blackett, Mr. John, C.E. ... ... 2, 12, 210 Blackett, Mr. John George ... ... 136 Blair, Mr. W. N., M.I.C.E. ... ... 203 Blake, Mr. Edwin ... ... ... 117 Bonar, Hon. Mr., M.L.C. ... ... ... 109 Braithwaite, Mr. Arthur ... ... ... 15 Breakell, Mr. William Corlass, C.E. ... 153, 157 Brennan, Mr. Patrick ... ... ... 121 Brett, Mr. F. H. ... ... ... 142 Brodie, Mr. Alexander ... ... ... 163 Brown, Mr. ... ~.. ... ... 33 Brown, Mr. R. H. ... ... ... 43
PAGE Burtt, Mr. James ... ... ... 108 Busch, Mr. ... ... ... ... 44 Butler, Mr. Edward ... ... ... 119 Oargill, Mr. E. B. ... ... ... 52 Chudleigh, Mr. Edward R. ... ... £04, Clark, Mr. H. (3-. ... ... ... 136 Climie, Mr. Daniel, C.E. ... ... ... 185 Comer, Mr. Robert ... ... ... 162 Conyers, Mr. William ... ... 189,196,198 Coulson, Mr. Robert ... ... ... 76 Coop, Mr. William ... ... ... 83 Cox, Mr. Charles Percy ... ... ... 71 Crawford, Mr. James ... ... ... 80 Grispe, Mr. Hey wood ... ... ... 151 Daldy, Captain W. C. ... ... ... 147 Dalrymple, Mr. Peter ... ... ... 31 Daniel, Mr. T. ... ... ... 36 Davidson, Mr. J. H. ... ... ... 76 Davies, Mr. William ... ... ... 161 Dennison, Mr. T. C. ... ... ... 62 Douglas, Mr. John ... ... ... 66 Ehrenfried, Mr. ... ... ... 165 Elliott, Mr. John ... ... ... 168 Evans, Mr. William ... ... ... 6S Fache, Mr. ft. ... ... ... ... 41 Pagan, Mr. M. ... ... ... 45 Pell, Mr. A. ft. ... ... ... 138 Fergusson, Mr. R. H. D. ... ... ... 154, Fisher, Mr. J. T., M.H.R. ... ... ... 101 Fitzherbert, Mr. W. A. ... ... ... 186 Fitzherbert, Sir William, K.C.M.ft. ... ... 183
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PAGE Fogden, Mr. W. F. ... ... ... 131 Ford, Mr. J. T. ... ... ... 102 Fraßi, Mr. Percy ... ... ... 3 Prew, Mr. John ... ... ... 115 Friedlander, Mr. Hugo ... ... ... 72 Garwood, Mr. J. D. ~..• ... ... 82 Gear, Mr. James ... ... ... 16 ftibbs, Mr. Samuel ... ... ... 60 Gibson, Mr. C. E. ... ... ... 142 Gill, Mr. Richard John ... ... ... 18 Glenn, Mr. ... ... ... ... 44 Gorton, Colonel ... ... ... 7 Gough, Mr. James ... ... ... 99 Gouiter, Mr. Cyrus ... ... ... 138 Grant, Mr. Alexander ... ... ... 50 Green, Mr. Henry ... ... ... 69 Green, Mr. Samuel ... ... - ... 65 Grig;;, Mr. John ... ... ... 70,73 Gwynnetb, Mr. John, C.E. ... ... 156 Hadfield, The Right Rev. O. ... ... 15 Hamlin, Mr. E., M.H.R. ... ... ... 150 Hannay, Mr. William Mowat ... ... 87 Barker, Mr. William ... ... ... 180 Harris, Mr. J. Duncan ... ... ... 144 Hay, Mr. William ... ... ... 25 Hillary, Mr. Naylor ... ... ... 67 Hirst, Mr. Henry, M.H.R.... ... ... 39 Hodson, Mr. J. E. ... > ... ... 140 Holmes, Mr. Robert West ... ... 143 Hulke, Mr. William King ... ... .?. 146 Humphries, Mr. Thomas ... ... ... 145 Inder, Mr. ... ... ... ... 42 Jack, Mr. M. L. ... ... ...109,115 Jackson, Mr. H. ... ... ... 184 Jackson, Mr. Howard ... ... ... 5 Jebson, Mr. John ... ... ... 106 Jerrard, Mr. William ... ... ... 77 Joblin, Mr. George Russell • ... ... 84 Jonas,'Mr. Mark ... ... ... 69 Kennedy, Mr. Martin ... ... ... 121 Kilgour, Dr. ... ... ... ... 158 Kilgour, Mr. Joseph ... ... ... 121 Knorpp, Mr. Charles 8., C.E. ... ... 175 Knowles, Mr. J. ... ... ...204,209 Lance, Mr. James ... ... ... 75 Lang, Mr. J. S. ... ... ... 115 Laverty, Mr. J. ... ... ... 44 Lawson, Mr. J. ... ... ... 206 Lees, Mr. James ... ... ... 62 Leng, Mr. G. D. ... ... ... 75 Lightfeot, Mr. W Tilliam ... ... ... 124 Lloyd, Mr. George ... ... ... 129 Lowe, Mr. J. H. ... ... ... 93 Lurasden, Mr. George ... ... ... 27,31 Lusk, Major D. H. ... ... ...148,151 Macdonald, Mr. A. V. ... ... ... 169 Mackay, Mr. Thomas ... ... ...132,187 Mackerras, Mr. J. T. ... ... ... 53 Maitland, Mr. J. P. ... ... ... 48 Malfroy, Mr. Julius ... ... ... 114 Marshall, Mr. James ... ... ... 120 Mason, Mr. Thomas, M.H.R. ... ... 184 Matheson, Mr. G. C. ... ... ... 52 McArthur, Mr. Duncan ... ... ... 27 MeFailane, Mr. John ... ... ... 26 McGregor, M.. John,-0.1!.... ... ... 62 Mcllwraith,,Mr. A. 1). . ... ... ... 99 Mcllwraith, Mr. James ... ... ... 78 McKellar, Mr. David ... ... ... 26 McKenna, Mr. Edward ... ... ... 34 McKenzie, Captain D. H. ... ... ... 146 McKenzie, Mr. J. ... ... ... 47 McLean, Mr. Donald ... ... ... 70 McMillen, Mr. Noble ... ... ... 25 McNab, Mr. Alexander (clerk) ... ... 30 McNab, Mr. Alexander (farmer) ... ... 30 McPherson, Mr. Archibald ... ... 39 Meadows, Dr. ... ... ... ... 21 Miller, Mr. William James ... ... 181
PAGE Mills, Mr. John Robert ... ... ... 35 Mitchell, Mr. Edward ... ... ... 81 Montgomery, Mr. W., M.H.R. ... ... 82 Moody, Mr. Thomas T. ... ... ... 179 Mueller, Mr. ... ... ... ... 112 Munro, Mr. Thomas ... ... ... 7 Murchison, Mr. John ... ... ... 80 Murray, Mr. James ... ... ... 31 Nancarrow, Mr. Richard ... ... ...118,120 Naylor, Mr. B. ... ... ... 41 O'Connor, Mr. Charles Y. ... ... ... 49 O'Neill, Mr. B. ... ... ... 47 Orr, Mr. Eric ... ... ... ... 131 Parker, Mr. James Edward ... ... 64, 67 Passmore, Mr. Frank B. ... ... ... 73 Peacock, Mr. George ... ... ... 81 Pearn, Mr. John J. ... ... ... 117 Piper, Mr. Henry ... ... ... 85 Pitt, Mr., M.H.R. ... ... ... 124 Quinn, Mr. Charles ... ... ... 143 Q,uinn, Mr. W. ... ... ... 26 Reichel, Mr. Frederick ... ... ... 37 Reid, Mr. J. ... ... ... ... 35,37 Ribct, Mr. Jacques ... ..: ... 126 Rich, Mr. F. D. ... ... ... 55 Biddell, Mr. Robert ... ... ... 39 Ritehey, Mr. T. 11. ... ... ... 44 Robinson, Mr. ... ... ... ... 11l Robinson, Mr. 11. ft. ... ... ... 43 Robinson, Mr. J. W. ... ... ... 148 Ronayne, Mr. Thomas ... ... ...118,121 Rossiter, Mr. ... ... ... ... 21 Rotheram, Mr. Thomas Forth ... ... 201 Russell, Mr. fteorge Warren ... ... 10 Sanson, Mr. Henry ... ... ... 7 Seymour, Mr. A. P., M.H.R. ... ... 140 Seymour, Mr. H. C. ... ... ... 140 Sheehan, Mr. John, M.H.R. ... ... 155 Shennan, Mr. Watson ... ... ... 200 Shrimski, Mr. S. E., M.H.R. ... ... 61 Sice, Mr. Frank ... ... ... 66 Smith, Mr. Allison ... ... ... 108 Smith, Mr. James ... ... ... 46 Smith, Mr. John ... ... ... 86 Smith, Mr. Sydney ... ... ... 11 Souter, Mr. William ... ... ... 159 Stevens, Mr. E. C. J., M.H.R ... ... 100 Stewart, Mr. James, C.E. ... ... ... 172 Stewart, Mr. John T. ... ... ... 6 Stone, Mr. William ... ... ... 135 Strange, Mr. Frederick ... ... ... 167 Stubbs, Mr. F. W. ... ... ... 69 Studholme, Mr. Michael ... ... ... 65 Sumpter, Mr. fteorge ... ... ... 61 Taylor, Mr. James ... ... ... 37 Thynne, Mr. Ernest Stephen ... ... 8 Tinline, Mr.-J. ... ... ... 74 Travers, Mr. W. T. L. ... ... ... 13 Triphook, Mr. Thomas D. ... ... ... 178 Turnbull, Dr. ... ... ... 82 Vialou, Mr. J. R. ... ... ... 152 Walker, Mr. John ... ... ..." 161 Ward, Mr. Austin ... ... ... 137 Ward, Mr. Joseph ... ... ... 139 Webb, Mr. J. S. ... ... ... 52 Webster, Mr. William D. ... ... ... 145 Wells, Mr. Thomss ... ... ... 154 Whitaker, Mr. Frederick A. ... ... 157 Wilkinson, Mr. G. T. ... ... ... 166 Williams, Mr. George Phipps, M.I.C.E. ... 106 Wilson, Mr. ... ... ... ... 42 Wilson, Mr. J. L. ... ... ... 102 Wilson, Mr. R. ... ... ... 54 Wilson, Mr. William ... ... ... 82 Wither, Mr. Frederick ... ... ... 22 Wood, Hon. Mr. William, M.L.C. ... ... 32
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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Gbeytcwn, Wednesday, 10th Maeoh, 1880. Mr. George Ashcroft sworn and examined. .„ 1. The Chairman!} You are the Traffic Manager of the Wellington and lioxton line? —I am the General Manager. 2. The Commission wish to obtain information as to the relative cost of working the incline of *2>\ miles in reference to the other portions of the line. Probably you are not in a position, without reference, to give the exact figures ; but you will be able, I suppose, to say substantially what is the difference in the cost primarily of working the incline and the other portions of the line ? —We have been very careful over this. I have not the figures in my head, but the result of the working of the Fell incline is that it adds 5 miles to the 2| miles already existing—that is to say, the charge is made <is though the incline was 7\ miles long, instead of 2\ miles. 3. That is. that the cost is three times greater per mile? —Yes; but the difficult element in that calculation is simply this : that, however small the business done, you must keep a staff to work the Fell engine. Those men would not be one-half or one-quarter of their time employed, but still their wa^es must go on ; and the only saving would be in the actual wear and tear of the metal, and a little «aving in coal. That staff would remain pretty constant if we were doing at least five times the traffic we are now doing. I think you may take the ratio of 2^- to 7 as a fair measure of the increased •expenditure. 4. Mr. Clark.'] That is, at the present time? —At the present time. 6. Mr. Wright.'} I should like you to tell me what increased traffic, in your judgment, it would be possible to carry with the present rolling-stock on the Wellington and Eeatherston line ?—Fully five times the present traffic. There would scarcely be any additional expenditure. There would perhaps be a little more consumption of coal. 6. Will you tell the Commission what has been the percentage of expenditure to receipts during the last six months, ending 31st December ? —lt stood 87 or 88 on this line ; but I speak from memory. The exact figures can be obtained from the records. 7. What was the percentage as shown by the latest returns ? —The percentage was down to about 80 on the 6th March of the present year. This is the latest return, and is not yet published. 8. Was that reduction due to increased traffic, or to a reduction in the train mileage ?—To both causes. The traffic did increase slightly ; but I may say that the whole of the economy was due to •decreased mileage. 9. In these traffic returns do you debit the cost of carriage of railway materials for works in progress ?• —One-half the ordinary rates are charged for actual haulage, but there are no terminal charges. 10. Has there been any material reduction in materials for railways in progress carried on the line in the months of Jauuary and February ? —I should say Yes, decidedly. The Public Works material comes in fits and starts; it is never a continuous traffic. 11. But there has been a material reduction ?—Yes, a very material reduction. Previously the whole of the material for the bridges has been drawn. All the heavy cylinders were brought up. 12. As those materials were debited with one-half the ordinary rate for carriage, do you not think the improved percentage is in. a measure due to the cessation of that traffic? —No, I think not; and for this reason: that every addition to the receipts, even though at a loss, would make these percentages better, because there would be a larger figure to divide by. These accounts are very defective, and give no true account of our traffic—that is to say, anything added to the gross amount would appear for the time being to be better when it was no better; for any increased wear and tear would not be shown. 13. You have slated that the cost of working the Fell incline is about three times the cost of a proportionate mileage on the ordinary lino? —Yes —on the ordinary line plus this difficulty, that we •cannot reduce that cost in proportion to any diminished business. I wish the Commissioners to see that very clearly. We are saddled here with that difficulty. 11. If I understand your answer properly, it means that with a less traffic it might be four times, or even five times, the cost to work the traffic on the ordinary line ? —Yes, if we take the cost at reduced rates. Supposing that we must reduce the cost, we could not reduce that part of it, and then the proportion, instead of being 1 to 3, would be 1 to 4. 1,5. On the other hand, if the traffic is*"very largely increased, the proportionate cost would be reduced ?—Very considerably diminished. 10. To what point do you think it possible?—l should not be at all surprised to find that I could bring it down to just one-half; you will see that that arises from the fact that a certain staff must be kept, which could be doing much more work. 17. Mr. Clark.] You stated that the rolling-stock upon the line under your charge is sufficient to ■do fivu times the work?—Yes. 18. Do I understand that the staff at present employed would also be sufficient to do five times tlie work ? —Yes. There would be some additional porters, labourers, and cadets for the actual entry of nccounts, for the increased business ; but practically you may say there would be no increase in. tiio (barges—the bulk of the charges would be as they are at present. lii. You say that you have reduced the proportion which the expenditure bears to the receipts to hO i>cv cent? —Yes, to SO per cent. I—E. 3.
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20. Is that for the period of twelve months ? —Yes —the whole amount is taken for the year, and divided by the number of weeks that have elapsed, which is taken as an average of what it would be for the whole year. 21. If the three last months were taken by themselves and the annual rate made up according to this return, could you give us an idea what the percentage would then be? —Not very well without reference to the figures; but I should say about 60 per cent. Taking the last three months by themselves, the expenditure on receipts would be about 60 per cent.; that is to say, we should have spent £60 on every £100 we have earned. 22. Well, do you consider the last three months as forming a fair average of the year, as regards the traffic ? —I should hope not. I should hope that there has been a depression in business from which we are recovering. Business has been very much depressed during the last three months, as compared with former years. lam earning £400 less than I was duriug the corresponding months of last year, thus showing that trade must be very slack. 23. Mjr object was, rather, instead of bringing in the element of depression, to take the particular season of the year into consideration; for instance, the carrying of wool or anything that is affected by the season of the year. What is your opinion on that matter? —If you take the question of percentage, the important element is the amount earned; and that depends entirely on the state of trade. We look upon economy in the expenditure, and upon how much of the receipts were spent; so that the receipts are an important factor. We must come to a calculation in some way if we want to know what we are saving in reduced mileage and so forth. I can give you the figures carefully worked out. The returns as made up from the railways are defective—for this reason: that we have no valuation whatever of the state of the works and the rolling-stock. We presume that we keep the rolling-stock to a certain point, but the accounts by no means show that. In my own case I found everything in very bad order here. We have been spending last year what ought to have been spent during the preceding five years, and still we have a good deal to expend yet. That shows a good cutting into the earnings that really we ought not to show. Then there is the very important element as to the state of the line. Nothing would be easier than to show good accounts by stopping repairs altogether. I could bring the percentage down to 50 per cent. 24. What proportion of the wool that you carry in a year do you think you have carried during the last three months —from the time the accounts were last made up ? —My estimate for the whole year was 10,000 bales. That was for the twelve months ending June. I have not yet quite reached 8,000 bales —on the 6th of March. I doubt if we get another 1,000 bales altogether. 25. What portion of this 8,000 bales would you carry between the 6th December and the 6th March ?—I could not tell without reference to the figures. Roughly speaking, I should say the larger proportion. 26. Mr. Wriglit.~\ Is the working on the Fell incline as safe as on the rest of the railway ? —I think safer. 27. Is the wear and tear of the road greater or less? —Uatber greater. There are three rails to wear, and extra brake-rubbing. 28. But, apart from the centre rail, is the wear and tear on the running rails greater or less ? — Leas, on account of the low speed, I should say. 29. Colonel Pearce.] Are you aware what percentage the net receipts yield on the capital spent in construction ? —I think there was about If per cent, paid last year on the total capital, but I have not the figures in my head. I have no special means of knowing that aspect of the accounts. The information will be got much better from the Public Works Department. 30. Mr. Olark.~\ What is the general speed and the maximum speed at which the trains are run at present ?—The maximum speed on any part of the line is twenty-three miles an hour. 31. Is that the general or the maximum speed? —The maximum speed; but the time-tables are made for fifteen miles an hour. 32. If the trains were worked at a lower speed, do you consider they would be worked more economically ? —Not so long as the fifteen miles an hour is adhered to. Ido not think there would be any difference—not any appreciable difference. If we increased the rate of speed it would make an enormous difference. 33. Have you any means of ascertaining, or any check, as to whether the trains run in any case at a speed exceeding twenty-three miles per hour, which you state is the maximum? —The time of departure is taken, and the time of departure at the telegraph station is taken, and if a variation is made exceeding five minutes the drivers would be fined. Our time-table is made for heavy trains, and when we are running very light trains it is difficult, so to speak, to consume the time. 34. Mr. Reid.~\ You have told us of the wool and timber traffic : is there any other produce that has any appreciable eft'ect on the traffic receipts on that line ?—Yes ; first-class goods in A, B, and C classes. They are our best-paying goods. 35. I refer to the products of the settlers, such as grain? —That traffic is just beginning ; it is a very small business at present. The sheep-carrying trade has grown from £300 a month up to £3,000 a month, and the grain trade from absolutely nothing up to perhaps a hundred tons a month. 36. Mr. Wri(jht.~\ If a train has been run at the rate of thirty-three miles an hour, would that be in violation of the instructions given to the engine-drivers ?—Yes, decidedly; unless it is a special train. 37. How long have you had charge ? —'Since the 17th November, 1878 —'that is, one year and five months. Mr. John Blackett, C.E., sworn and examined. 38. The Chairman.'] You are, I believe, Engineer in Charge, North Island ? —Yes. 39. Can you tell the Commission how long it will probably be before the line from Wellington to Woodville is completed as far as Masterton ?—I was lately asked that question, and I mentioned the Ist of August as the day on which it would be opened for traffic.
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•40. Can you name any approximate time at which it would probably be completed to Woodville ? —Certainly not. It would depend entirely upon the funds placed at the disposal of the department and the pressure put upon the department to complete it. I suppose that under any circumstances it would take three years. 41. Can you give approximately the probable cost of completion as far as Woodville?—l am unable to give the cost from memory. All these things are in print, and you could be furnished with them at half an hour's notice in Wellington. 42. Mr, Wright."] Can you give any information with reference to the amount already expended on the line we inspected yesterday —namely, that portion of the Wellington-Foxton line between Kaiwarra and Johnsonville ? Can you say how much has already been expended on the work done, also what contracts will require to be completed in order to keep faith with contractors ? —I will answer the second question first. There are no contracts whatever. We have spent, up to last payday, £18,000 in work, plant, and material. 43 How far is it intended to carry on the line in the meantime ?■ —There has been no limit at all put to it. The late Ministry instructed me to begin a piece of work on the Wellington-Foxton line as near to town as we could, and just go on till further orders. We started on about a mile and a half, beginning at the first mile from Pipitea. We have now extended it close up to Johnsonville. The work is spread over nearly five miles at the present time. 44. How far would that line require to be carried before it would be of any practical benefit to the settlers, or a source of any revenue ? —That is a question I have not gone into. It would only be an opinion that I could now give. The country that it would go through from Wellington to the sea■coasc at Paikakariki —that is, about thirty miles —would not likely give a large revenue from traffic. 45. Judging from what has already been spent, what do you suppose it would cost to complete the line io such a point that it would become in some degree remunerative ? —I will tell you what the estimate for the whole of the line is, and that will give you an idea. The estimate for the whole of the line from Wellington to Foxton is £440,000. From Wellington to Paikakariki the distance is 30 miles, and the whole length of the line is 67i miles. The first 30 miles—to Paikakariki—will cost more than one-half the money —probably £250,000 —seeing that it is the rough part of the line. 46. Would that carry it to the boundary of the Maori land ?—Tes. From that point to Foxton the land is pretty well nearly all in the hands of the Natives. 47. No considerable area, I suppose, in the hands of Europeans ? —Such a small proportion that it is scarcely worth mentioning. I think there are a few hundred acres here and there which have been bought by Europeans. Speaking from memory, I think that the area of land to be considered good is comprised in the triangle which lies between Paikakariki and Foxton, the apex being at Paikakariki. There are about 85,000 acres there which is described as being excellent land. 48. But the land is principally in the hands of Natives ?—Tes. 49. Can you state whether there is any probability of that land becoming the property of Europeans in a short time ? —-I have no means of giving an opinion on that. I think, from what I have learned on the subject, that it is very likely to be some time before it is in the hands of Europeans. 50. Colonel JPearce.] As we have in your evidence the approximate cost of the line from Wellington to Foxton, can you tell us the approximate cost of the line from Masterton to Bunnythorpe via the Gorge, assuming Bunnythorpe to be the junction? —£440,000 is what I have given for the WellingtonFoxton line, and about £453,000 would be the approximate cost of the other line from Masterton to Bunnythorpe. 51. Then there is no appreciable difference in the probable cost ?—Only about £13,000. 52. Following that.up, can you tell the Commission how many miles there are still to construct between the present terminus at Kopua and Woodville ?—I cannot answer that question now exactly, but I can do so when I return to Wellington. 53. Mr. Wright.] I would like to ask whether any survey of the line has been made between Woodville and Bunnythorpe ? —Yes —a preliminary survey, and part of a second survey, which we are siow busy with, from Bunnythorpe to the Gorge. 54. You gave an approximate estimate of the cost of the line from Masterton to Bunnythorpe as £453,000: can you inform us approximately how much of that would be chargeable to the Masterton— Woodville portion, and how much to the Woodville-Bunnythorpe portion ? —About one-fourth would be the cost from Woodville to Bunnythorpe. There would be about, say, £340,000 spent upon the main line, and the balance of £113,000 would be spent on the branch or connecting link.
Woodyille, Thuksday, llth Makch, 1880. Mr. Pebcy Feast, licensed Government surveyor, sworn and examined. 55. The Chairman.] The Commission are informed that you have a good knowledge of the country in the Forty-mile Bush, and they are anxious to know what account you would give of the general character of it on both sides of the road ? —I have been for four years, more or less, engaged in the bush between Eketahuna and Woodville as a Grovernment contract surveyor. 50. Then you have a good general knowledge, I suppose, of the character of the bush? —I have a thorough knowledge of it, because I surveyed two large blocks —the Mangaone and Pahiatua Blocks — comprising nearly 60,000 acres of land. 57. Would you be good enough to give the Commission your opinion of the value of the country, both as regards the timber for sawing purposes, and also as regards the land for settlement ? —There is no timber available for sawing purposes in sufficient quantity with the exception of rimu. It is only upon the land belonging to Natives that there is totara in any quantity ; and there is not very much ©t that either. There is only one considerable bush of totara in the vicinity of the Hawera Native settlement, and that is at present in the hands of the Natives. 58. The greater part of the bush is still in the hands of the Natives ? —Yes ; the best portion of the bush is still in the hands of the Natives.
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59. Then, as to the capabilities of the land for the purposes of settlement ?—Nearly the whole of it is valuable as grazing land. It is undulating laud, broken more or less. The leading valleys between the rivers are the only level portions of the land. 60. Can you give an idea of what is the general character of the soil?—The greater portion of it is sandstone formation, but I dare say that one-third of it would be limestone. Of course, the limestone formation is in the rough and broken portion of the land. I may mention that I was employed by Mr. Marchaut, surveyor, of Wellington, to value the Mangaonc Block, and I valued it at from 10s. to £2 10s. per acre. Ido not know whether that price will be accepted by the Waste Lands Board. It is only my own valuation. 61. Can you gay whether that portion which you value at 10s. an acre is the greater portion or the smaller?—The greater portion I would value at £1 per acre. 62. Colonel Pearce.] Do you know the land between Eketahuna and Mauriceville at all ? —No ; 1 am not well acquainted with that locality. 63. Do you know sufficient of it to say whether it is of equal value to the land to which you have just referred? —It is not of the same value as that land. A considerable part of the land is very bad and broken in the locality of Mauriceville. 64. Mr. Wright.'] Is the character of the bush generally better or worse than that winch we have seen from the road ? —lt is far more broken than what you have seen when travelling along the road ; but the character of the Government land is better at the back part of the block than that which you came through to-day. 65. What is the quality of the timber ?—The timber is of no value at all. There is barely enough valuable timber for fencing purposes on the Government blocks. 66. And then it is very much inferior, as regards timber, to that land which we have seen to-day? —You have seen far better timber on the Native portions of land than any in the Government blocks. 67. To what extent generally does that undulating land extend between the ranges ?—The whole of the blocks that I have surveyed I should classify as undulating land, and I believe that the whole of the bush land is almost similar in character. The Native portions of the land are certainly better in quality. 68. You told us you surveyed blocks of some 60,000 acres in extent: do those blocks represent the whole of the undulating land between the ranges, or is there much more to be surrvoyed ? —There in a great deal more land not yet surveyed belonging to the Government, extending to the Puketoi Eange, which is nearly all of limestone formation. 69. Speaking approximately, could you say how many thousand acres that land would comprise ?—, No; I could not give the acreage because I do not know the boundaries of the Government land towards the coast. When Mr. Marchant was inspecting the work I did on the Pahiatua Survey he was surprised to see so much surplus land available for grazing purposes not yet surveyed, his impression evidently being that it was of a more broken character. 70. When you stated that the timber was of very little value, is that because you attach very little value to the red pine, or is the land well covered with red pine ?—No, it is very poor red-pine bush indeed, and rather scattered. Tawa and rata preponderate. 71. Mr. Beid.~\ You have spoken of the land as good grazing land. When that land was cleared do you consider that it would be good grazing land ? —So far as the quality of the soil is concerned 1 consider that it would be very good land for cropping ; but there are certain portions of it broken and fit for nothing but grazing purposes. 72. I presume you mean that all that could be ploughed would be suitable as agricultural land? —Yes. 73. Is there any considerable portion of this land stony so as to obstruct ploughing ?—No ; the only portion stony is that along the river-bed of the Mangatainoka Eiver, and it would^not be worth ploughing. 74. Does that form any large portion of the area?—No ;I do not think it comprises more than a thousand acres of the two blocks I surveyed. 75. Mr. Clark.]_ You mentioned that the soil around Mauriceville is poor: is that on account of its being broken, or is it otherwise of poor quality ? —I think it is a poor class of soil, comparing the grass and the cultivations that actually have been made at Mauriceville and at Eketahuna. There is no doubt the land being more broken would affect the soil to a certain extent. The water would carry away a great deal of the soil from the hills. 76. Mr. Wright.] Can you give the Commission any information as to the character of the land between Foxton and Wellington? Do you know anything of that district? —I have not been very much through that district, but my impression is, from what I know of it, that it is nearly all excessively bad land. I surveyed land between Otaki and Wellington, and it was really very bad land indeed. There was no comparison between the land in the Otaki District and the land between Masterton and Woodville, so far as purposes of occupation go. 77. The Chairman.] Personally you are not well acquainted with the country?—No, I am not. There is no railway reserve through the two blocks I have referred to as having surveyed, except a reserve of three chains in width which was made along the main line of road. 78. Mr. Beid.] Could you inform us whether the surveyed line from Masterton is along the main road ?—I am not acquainted with any portions of the line except those I surveyed ; and in those blocks there is no other reserve but that along the road. 79. Mr. Wright,] Have you travelled over the land between the Manawatu and Otaki?—l have merely travelled along the main road-line going from Otaki to Manawatu. I mean the beach-road. 80. As far as your knowledge of that part of the country extends, can you say what is the relative yalue of the land between Otaki and Manawatu as compared with the land in this district?- My impression is that the land through the bush in this district is treble the value of the laud between Otaki and Manawatu. The land would simply be of use for rough runs.
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Palmeestow North, Fbiday, 12th Maech, 1880. Mr. Howaei) Jackson sworn and examined. 81. The Chairman.'] You are chief surveyor of the Feilding Settlement ? —-Tea. 82. We are led to believe that you wish to offer some evidence on behalf of the Feilding Corporation ?—Tes. 83. I think it would be most convenient that you should, in the first place, make a statement of what it is your wish to advance ? —I have brought a plan with me [produced] which shows the different routes of the railway; and I particularly wish to call the attention of the Commission to the producing part of the present line, and to the producing capabilities of the projected lines. 84. Would you point out generally the character of the country, and say whether it could be largely settled, and the traffic grow in consequence ?—The construction of the piece of line from Bunny - thorpe to Ashhurst aifects most directly some 40,000 acres of land. The upper part of the Fitzherbert Block, part of the Manchester Block, the Wanganui Harbour Board Endowment, and any land north of the Wanganui Harbour Board Endowment, would be affected—in fact, any land lying between the two rivers, Oroua and Pohangina. The line is a part of any possible connection between the two coasts, and there was an offer made by the Feilding Corporation to the Government during the last session to construct it on a guarantee of interest on the outlay of 4 per cent. There is a population already at Ashhurst of some thirty or forty families. The area of 40,000 acres I have mentioned is all available for settlement, and is good land. There is another block of 20,000 acres in the immediate vicinity across the river, carrying a large quantity of very fine totara. It is impossible to "utilize this timber until there is a cheaper mode of transit. The actual profitable part of the present line is between Palmerston and the Rangitikei River. 1 may state that the Wanganui line stands third on the list of railways as to the actual working results. That is attributable to the timber traffic between Palmerston and the Rangitikei River. The return for the four weeks ending 29th February at the Feilding Station was £GlO. There are 140,000 acres of land in the Otainakapua Block, lately purchased by the Government. There is another block of 7,000 acres adjoining —the Kiwitea Block— the natural outlet of which is Feilding. The value of that block would be materially affected by its distance from the port of Wellington. There is no profitable timber on the line from Masterton to Woodville, although the land is of good quality. There is a large quantity of totara north of the Wanganui Harbour Board Endowment, and also on the slopes of the Ruahine, in the immediate vicinity of Ashhurst. 85. Have you any personal knowledge of the country south of Foxton—between Porirua and .Foxton? —Yes. Mr. Stewart can furnish the Commission with information as to the area of land between Foxton and Paikakariki. I have gone through the figures with him, and we agree as to their correctness. The main characteristic of the country is a ridge of sandhills at the sea, then a belt of remarkably good land inside that, and then the foot-ridges of the main range. 86. Speaking approximately, what would you suppose might be the average width of that belt of good land ?—I should say two miles is a low estimate of the breadth of the belt of good land. 87. Mr. Wright.] You spoke of a block of 40,000 acres available land, and another block of 20,000 acres good totara land available for settlement: is that Crown land or freehold land? —Som< of it is Crown land. 88. What proportion do you estimate is Crown land ? —lt is all freehold land. S9. You spoke of 20,000 acres of good totara bush across the river, ;is an additional block: is that Crown land ? —The greater part of it is Crown land. 90. You stated it was impossible to utilize the timber without cheaper carriage—cheaper carriage to where? —To any point of junction with the existing line of railway. 91. The construction of the line from Bunnythorpe to Ashhurst would cheapen the cost of transit ?—Yes. 92. You spoke of the returns of the Wanganui line as standing third in point of productiveness of all the railways in the colony : how do you arrive at that conclusion ? —By the returns as published by the Traffic Department. 93. You refer simply to the published percentages? — Yes; and I am aided by my actual knowledge of the amount of money actually received at the different stations between Palmerston and Halcombo. 94. You are aware, of course, that the percentage signifies nothing by itself unless placed side by side with the capital cost of the railway ? —Yes. 95. And it was not in reference to the capital cost that you made that statement ? —No. 96. Does the timber from Feilding go principally to Wanganui or to Foxton ? —To Wanganui— seven-eighths of the total product. 97. Can you say whether it is for consumption in the district or for export ?—The greater part, I believe, is for consumption in the district. 98. You spoke of a block of 140,000 acres —one of the latest of the Government purchases : is the purchase complete, or is that one of the Native blocks on which the Government have paid a deposit ? —They have paid a deposit—a very large one. I cannot tell the exact sum. The last payment was not made, on account of an accident to Mr. James Booth, the Native Land Purchase Commissioner. The main road running through the block was reported by Mr. Carruthers as being the natural outlet for the interior. 99. Mr. Reid.] Is there any considerable proportion of open land in this country, or is it all bush ? —I might safely say that it is entirely bush. There are petty openings. 100. What is the average height of the hills above the valleys ?—T should say the average height would be forty feet. It is a rolling, undulating country, and not abruptly broken. 101. Mr. Clark.] You consider the land now referred to, when cleared of stump, fit for agriculture ? —Tes, quite so. 102. Do you know if there is any valuable timber on the eastern slope of the Ruahine, north of Woodville ?—Judging by similar country on the same line of range, I should say there is not.
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103. Then you can give no decided opinion as to whether, in the event of a railway being opened between Bunnythorpe and Woodville, a trade for timber with the Napier District would spring up with, the country you have just referred to ? —I think there is no doubt there would be a large trade at once opened up. 104. The Chairman.'] Can you say whether a trade would spring up with Napier for timber ?— Yes, a trade would spring up. 105. The timber in the Manawatu District would find its way to Napier? —It would be the source of supply for Napier. 106. And would, in your opinion, be a very large trade ? —Tes, a very large and directly profitable trade. 107. Mr. Wright.'] Are you aware of the existence of the Seventy-mile Bush between Woodville and Napier, and, if so, do you think that that district is incapable of supplying Napier? —I think there is not a sufficient quantity of marketable timber in the Seventy-mile Bush to supply the Napier District. I know of one very valuable totara bush at Tahorite. That is the only totaral know on that side. The greater portion of the Seventy-mile Bush is so broken as to be unavailable until the country is opened and made available by the construction of a railway and roads, and placed in the position which the Manawatu District occupies. 108. Do you consider that the valuable timber on the eastern slope of the Ruahine could not be sent to Napier with advantage and profit ? —I cannot answer that question. Mr. John T. Stewaet sworn and examined. 109. The Chairman.] What is your official designation ?—I am District Engineer of the Public Works. 110. I believe you are acquainted with the character of the country between Paikakariki and Foxton ?—Tes. 111. Will you be good enough to tell us what your opinion of that country is as a country fit for settlement ? —I have a map here which will perhaps assist you. [Map produced.] There is a belt of light sandy soil —used for grazing purposes chiefly —running along the sea-coast. The area is about 40,000 acres. It is in the hands of Natives, settlers, and under negotiation to Government for sale by the Natives. Portions of it are used by the Natives for their cultivations —that is, the better quality of it. Inland of that light-soil belt there is a belt of very good land, the most part of it bush land, comprising an area of about 50,000 acres. That land is also in the hands of the Natives, settlers, and under negotiation for sale to the Government. Inland of that, on the slopes and the lower spurs of the hills, the Government, I believe, have got most of the land. The Government purchases extend a long way inland upon the main ranges. About 40,000 acres in the front slopes would be available for settlement as second-quality land. It is covered with bush. The proposed railway runs through the belt of good land described as lying between the hills and the front light-soil country. The proposed railway from Paikakariki northwards for 30 miles would be under the average cost of construction. It then reaches the Wereroa clearing, about one mile inland of the Horowhenua Lake. This is the point of proposed divergence of the line to Foxton and to Palmerston North. The branch to Foxton is between 10 and 11 miles long. Three miles of it is through good bush land. Four miles more is through light sandy soil. This part of the line is of easy construction. It then crosses the Manawatu Uiver, where a large bridge would be required to be constructed, with an opening for navigation. Then there is 2 miles of heavy construction over a swamp liable to floods. It reaches Foxton Station in another mile. The branch to Palmerston North, leaving the same point of junction, would be 25 miles long to its point of junction with the present railway, about 4 miles below the Palmerston Station. This line would be probably of the average cost of construction, also requiring a large bridge over the Manawatu Biver. The land opened up from the junction by the Palmerston branch will consist of good land, in the hands of the Natives, settlers, and under negotiation for sale to the Government, of about 35,000 acres ; and of additional land in the large swamp, which would be good when drained, consisting of 15,000 acres ; and also of land on the lower slopes of the hills, of second quality, and covered with bush, consisting of about 30,000 acres. Thus there would be about 130,000 acres of the above different qualities of land opened up between Paikakariki and Foxton, and about 80,000 between Horowhenua and the crossing of the Manawatu River below Palmerston, making a total of about 210,000 acres. The difference of length of new lines requiring to be made between the point of junction at Horowhenua to Foxton and to Palmerston respectively would be 14^ miles. 112. Colonel Pearce.] When you speak of settlers' land, do you mean land held by them under Crown grant ? —Partly so, and partly by the settlers who have purchased from the Natives. There is a portion between Paikakariki and Waikanae which was Crown land, sold to settlers long ago. The settlers have acquired certain blocks by private purchase from the Natives. 113. Has the Crown any land at all for sale with a complete title ? —I could not say, except that they have land in the Township of Fitzherbert, which is referred to in the previous statement in regard to the Palmerston branch. 114. That is Crown land?—Tes. 115. Mr. Wright.] Can you say, approximately, what is the total area of freehold land that would be opened up by the line of railway between Paikakariki and Palmerston —freehold, or bought from the Crown or from the Natives —land in the hands of the settlers ? —I should think not more than 20,000 acres. That is merely an approximate estimate, as I have no data. 116. Tou spoke of a belt of good land between the hills and the sandhills : what is the character of the soil ? —lt is something like bush land —good, loamy soil, and there is a certain quantity of good timber on portions of it. 117. Is there not a very large proportion of it in the condition of swamp land, requiring to be drained?—Not much in that belt of good land. I have referred to the swamp land separately. There are swampy tracts in it, but they could be easily drained. 118. Mr. Clark] Can you mention the approximate distance from Greatford to Foxton by Bulls and Sanson ?-—About 28 miles, of which 5| miles are already made.
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119. Then what is the distance between Greatford and Foxton round by the present line ?—lt is 48J miles. Bulls, Friday, 12th Maeoh, 1880. 120. Mr. Thomas Munro, storekeeper, of Bulls, made the following statement to the Commission : The "rough estimate of cost of four miles of railway from Greatford to Bulls," and the "rough estimate of traffic between Greatford and Bulls," which have been furnished to the Commission, are fair statements according to the times at present. Some time ago there was more traffic than at present; but we thought it advisable to make it as low, in one sense, as we could, considering the times. The quantities are correct, as far as we could form an opinion. We had not exact figures to guide us ; but I have been for a long time extensively engaged in business, and myself and a dozen other residents constructed those estimates. It is our unanimous judgment that those estimates are as correct as we could reasonably make them. Knowing the capabilities of the district, I have not the slightest doubt that the present traffic will be considerably increased so soon as the district is opened up by the railway —especially on the Sandon side. The Sandon people would, in the meantime, I have not the slightest doubt, make use of the proposed line between Greatford and Bulls : but in the estimates we have not taken credit for that, because they do not at present get their goods this way. 121. Mr. Seid.~\ Is not a gross return of £1,100 a very small sum from which to deduct wear and tear ? —lt is difficult to arrive at. Four miles of railway by itself would not pay, but in connection with another railway it would. We take the line from Greatford to Bulls (4 miles) in connection with, the other line ; but, if you separate those 4 miles from the other railway, the figures must necessarily be small. But, in connection with the other line, I maintain that the 4 miles of railway would pay. 122. You mean that people do not want to send goods merely to Greatford? —-Yes. But, in connection with the whole line, the traffic would be larger, and would pay as a whole. A return of £1,100 certainly looks small for a railway, but we cannot really separate the 4 miles of proposed railway from the Wanganui-Foxton Eailway. 123. Colonel Pearce."^ How do the Sandon people get their goods now ? —Some by Feilding, some by the Rangitikei River, some by Palmerston, and some small quantities by this way. 124. Mr. Wright.~\ Have you considered at all what would be the profitable return of the railway from Greatford to Bulls, after paying the working expenses of that section ? —"We have considered this: that, if the railway here is worked in a certain manner, the working expenses of the 4 miles of railway would be very small. That is to say, if Greatford Station is made the half-way station instead of Halcombe, the train would have to remain at Greatford for twenty minutes. During that interval the engine might come down with loaded trucks, and take them away. There would be no more detention than at present; and the line would be worked with the same engines and men as work the main line at present. It would only be necessary to have a man or two at this end to receive goods on arrival or departure. That would be the only way of working this line economically, and I have not the slightest doubt that in that way the line could be worked profitably, even with a revenue of only £1,100. 125. Mr. Henry Sanson, settler, of Sandon, made the following statement to the Commissioners: I have compiled a few facts with regard to the Sandon District which will perhaps guide the Commissioners. Sandon and Carnarvon districts comprise an area of more than 120,000 acres of good agricultural land, and contain a population of 1,500 souls. There was under cereal crops this year 3,000 acres, and the average yield was 25 bushels per acre: total, 150,000 bushels, or about 2,400 tons. There are about 500 tons of root crops. Over 1,000,000 feet of sawn timber are sent away annually from one mill alone. There are two sawmills in full work at present, and the erection of two others is contemplated. A very large number of cattle and sheep are annually sent away from these districts. The yield of produce is considerably on the increase every year, and this increase will be at a more rapid rate now that the Douglas special settlement is making such progress. This would yield a considerable traffic to the railway if the West Coast line were brought to Foxton. The Palmerston line comes out from Foxton for a distance of 6 miles in a direct line for Sanson. In addition to the above-mentioned farm and timber produce, there is an import traffic amounting to about 300 tons. The foregoing estimates will be at least doubled as soon as the Sanson-Carnarvon Junction branch line is completed, which we hope to see accomplished within a reasonable time. At the present time the Sandon District draws some of its supplies from Palmerston, and some through Bulls from Wanganui. I cannot say from which end it draws most of its supplies. lam a resident of Sandon District. I may say that between Sanson and Foxton there is a very large area of undeveloped country, which will remain for ever in its present state unless the line is brought to Foxton, so as to give us an outlet, and encourage the completion of the proposed branch line from Sanson to Carnarvon Junction. There are thousands of acres of really good land'—second, I think, to none in New Zealand —languishing for want of a proper outlet. Parts of the country possessing railway transit have a great advantage over other places without railways ; and we feel heavily handicapped for want of a railway. We are doing all we can in this direction to help ourselves, and have urged upon the Government, as we do now upon this Commission, that the line should be brought to Foxton, so as to give us access to Wellington, which we would not have if the railway went through the Gorge to Masterton. In the event of the line being made from Greatford to Bulls, I think that would increase the traffic between Sandon and Bulls, because it would bring the railway station so much nearer to Sandon ; and, instead of getting our goods by way of Foxton, as at present, we would get them from Wanganui, through Greatford. There is a large tract of really very good land between the sea-coast and the foot of the hills from Foxton to Otaki. 126. Colonel Gorton, of the firm of Stevens and Gorton, land and stock agents, Bulls, made the following statement: The estimates which have been handed in to the Commission with regard to the railway from Greatford to Bulls were made up by eight or nine of the residents here. I went io the railway station myself and worked up the passenger, goods, and parcels traffic ; and upon that I have made out my figures, allowing a slight increase, which we shall certainly gain by bringing the line to Bulls,. because down in this direction there is a very large extent of country, both agricultural and grazing, the
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produce of which it does not pay to send up to Greatford, but it just pays by shipping it at the Rangitikei River. The communication at the Rangitikei River is only monthly, at spring tides, and therefore there is a very great and serious delay. For instance, in the case of my own firm, we send wool to Greatford in preference to sending it down and shipping it from the port of Rangitikei, and we get it done a shilling a bale cheaper. If the settlers six or seven miles below Bulls had the opportunity of putting their wool on the railway at Bulls, they would certainly send their wool this way instead of by way of Rangitikei River. Three or four of the settlers club together at Lower Rangitikei, and wait for a chance to ship their goods there. Therefore I have allowed a little more in this estimate than what I got at the station when I went to examine the books. A contractor has already offered to construct a line from Greatford to Bulls for £10,000. We show a probable revenue of £1,172, which would be a fair return on £10,000. There is no doubt that if, instead of waiting twenty-five minutes or half an hour at Halcombe, the train waited at Greatford—the engine in the meantime running down the branch line to Bulls—that would meet all the requirements of our 4 miles of railway ; and I cannot see what there is to prevent its being worked in that manner. The working expenses'would then be very small, and the line would give a fair return. The omnibus which runs between Bulls and Greatford received between £700 and £800 last year. The attendance at our sales is very large. "We are in the centre of a very large agricultural district, and we dispose of about £20,000 worth of stock in the year. The average attendance at our sales must be a hundred people. 127. Mr. Wright.'] I understood you to say that the settlers here ship produce at Foxton ? —We send the produce on to Greatford, and round that way to Foxton. What we hope to do is to send it straight by railway from here to Foxton, and by Wellington. 128. I presume the goods go from Foxton to Wellington by boat ?—Tes. 128a. Will you tell the Commission the cost per ton for shipping goods from Foxton to Wellington ? —I am sorry I cannot say for certain, because it is done through the bank. We find that it is Is. cheaper. I believe the last contract was 3s. 9d. a bale from Foxton to Wellington, but lam speaking merely from what I have heard people say. 129. Can you tell us what is the rate for carrying goods from Wanganui to Wellington by water ? I cannot say for certain, but it would be slightly in excess of the rate from Foxton. 130. Mr. Clark.'] In speaking of the extent of grain-growing country which would be opened up by the Wellington-Foxton line, you mentioned yesterday an extent of 250,000 acres. Is not that land intersected at present by the line from Foxton to Wanganui ? —Three-fifths of the extent of the land I mentioned would lie south and west of the present railway line. The proposed line of railway from Foxton to Wellington would open 150,000 acres of agricultural land. 181. Mr. Wright.] I understood you to say that land in this district has hitherto been of no value for agriculture owing to its distance from railway communication ? —'Yes. 132. What, in your opinion, is the distance from the railway that prevents the profitable cultivation of the soil ?—That is a difficult question to answer. If we had a line direct to a large city we could afford to carry our produce a greater distance ; but where we have to go to the expense of sending our produce to one port for the purpose of transhipping it to another port, it does not pay to grow the produce. 133. Mr. Clark.'] But, in the event of your getting a railway line direct to the chief port of shipment, 30 6r 40 miles extra length of railway would be, comparatively speaking, immaterial?—The longer the line the more it costs. 134. The object of my question is this: Supposing the longest line of railway communication between Greatford and Wellington is adopted —that is, by way of Masterton—at the present rate of railway charges the rate per ton would be something like 14s. or 15s. Then the question is, would that preclude the profitable growth of grain ? —We would never send an ounce of grain by the railway to Wellington if the line came round by Masterton instead of by the West Coast. 135. That is to say, that Id. a bushel would be such a heavy handicap that it would throw you out of the market ? —lt would be more than Id. a bushel. The line by way of Foxton would be 63 miles nearer. If we had a line of railway by means of which we could put our grain into trucks and carry it by Foxtou to Wellington, it would undoubtedly pay us to grow grain. 136. Mr. Wright.] Do you consider that the cost of transport by rail and water to Wellington at present charges precludes the profitable cultivation of land in this district ?—I do. We cannot get our produce down to Wellington and make it pay: there is so much handling, and the charges are consequently very heavy. When we get our produce to Wanganui it does not go direct to the wharf. 137. Mr. Clark.] But it will do so very shortly, as it is intended to make the terminus of the railway alongside the shipping?—lt will be just as much as we can do to make the grain pay when we get the line direct to Wellington. Foxton, Fkiday, 12th March, 1880. Mr. Eknest Stephen Thynne sworn and examined. 138. The Chairman.] You arc a land agent in Foxton? —Yes. 139. I understand you are personally acquainted with the character of the land between this and Porirua ?—Between this and Waikanae. I have made a valuation of that country for the Government. 140. Then, perhaps you will be good enough to give the Commission some description of the country, both with regard to its value as timber country and its value for settlement? —The country lying between the Manawatu River and Otaki, from the sea-beach to the ranges, is practically level country. The open land extends from the sea-beach about 5 miles, and then from that line and up the ranges it is timber country. The timber consists of white pine, red pine, and matai—chiefly good red pine and matai. But on the Ohau River, about 17 miles from Foxton, there is a large patch of totara bush. The open land from the beach to the timber country is a light subsoil of sand, with a coating of black soil about fifteen inches in depth. As you get into the timber the subsoil is clay, with a gravelly surface. The Engineer for the county reports that on the road line from Otaki to Foxton he comes upon a gravelly surface, showing a good road line.
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141. Mr. Wright.'] You refer to the proposed railway line?—l understand the Engineer has laid out a road from Foxto'n to Otaki in almost the same direction as the railway line is proposed to go, and finds it a level road. The character of the country from Otaki to Waikanae is of the same descrip--142. The Chairman.'] Can you give some idea of the proportion of the different classes of land you describe—the area of the open land and the area of the bush land?—The open land is in a very small proportion. lam not in a position to give the information, but it can be obtained. I believe the whole of the bush land from the sea-beach to the edge of the bush is in the hands of the Maoris. I know there is a large portion of it in the hands of Europeans as runs. I understand that the Government boundary-line of land purchased from the Natives starts from the edge of the bush and runs up to the ranges. I should like it to be understood that the bush land is level for a long distance into the 143. But, so far as you are aware, the whole, or nearly the whole, of the land in the hands of the Crown is bush land?—Yes. I should say that every bit of land they have got from here to Waikanae is bush land. . . 144. Do you know if any part of the laud still in the hands of the Maoris is under negotiation with the G-overnment, or if there are any cases of purchase so far as the payment of a deposit?—l have understood that the Government had a lien upon every piece of Maori land upon the Coast—in a small way, but in some indirect way. This purchase of Native land has been going on for the last twelve or fourteen years, and I think it is in about a similar position now as it was in the beginning. I believe if that land were opened up for sale by the Government it would sell readily at £3 an acre. 145. Colonel Fearee.] The bush land ?—Yes. That is the opinion of every man who knows the country. There are many persons here waiting to get a chance of purchasing land in that country.^ 146. Mr. Wright.] You spoke of the belt between the sea and the bush as about five miles in width. "What value per acre do you attach to that land, taking it generally ?—That land, taken generally, would sell for about £2 an acre. 147. The whole of it being light alluvial, with a sandy subsoil ?—Yes. It is not strong enough for cropping. 148. Would not a large proportion of it come under the designation of sandhills ? —No. What is termed sandhills are the moving or drifting sand. The moving sandhills do not extend more than half a mile inland from the beach. There are many points down the coast where you can go in half a mile or a mile, and see the country very easily. 149. Can you tell us the rate of freight from Foxton to Wellington ? — Prom Foxton to Wellington it is 15s. per ton by steamer. 150. For any class of goods ? —Yes. 151. And what price for timber ?—Half-a-crown per 10»f eet—that is, by regular trading steamers. I do not think you would get a sailing craft to go to Wellington with a load under 35., but the regular trading steamers would take it at a cheaper rate. 152. Mr. Reid.] The price you referred to as being obtainable by the Government —£3 and £2 au acre —would that be a cash sale or deferred-payment sale ? —Cash sale. 153. Mr. Clark.] You referred to the fact that a number of settlers were desirous of purchasing land in this block, and settling on it: does that refer to the timber land which you understand is in the hands of the Government ?—lt refers to the timber land. The settlers and myself look upon the timber land as being a great deal better than the open land. 154. The Chairman.] Can you give us any information as to the probability of an increase of traffic for the line from the northward? —If the West Coast Eailway had a junction at Poxton it would place the whole of the couutry from Foxton, including Carnarvon, Sanson, Bulls, on to Marton, in a much nearer position to Foxt'on, and therefore to Wellington, than by using the present line. _ By the map you will see that the present line makes two sides of a triangle. This, taking into consideration the point of j unction on the West Coast Eailway being fixed at Foxton, would induce the Saudon^ Railway Company to complete their line from Carnarvon Station to Sandou, which would affect the mileage from Marton to Foxton by about 2± miles than by the present railway route. The Sandon country is settled by small farms, and large crops of wheat are produced —in fact, all cereals, but it is noted for its wheat. I may mention that lam in receipt of a letter from the Messrs. J. and T. Meek, asking me to obtain for them Manawatu wheat, to purchase to mix with southern wheat. The population of the Manawatu is about 10,000. 155. Colonel Pearce.] I would like to ask whether you urge that the line should go to Foxton, so that it should bring the Sandon people in communication with Wellington, or are you proposing that line to be made in any case from Foxton to Sandon ? —We were proposing to have a line from here to Sandon ; and, to show the belief that the settlers had in the matter, they undertook to give a guarautee under the District Railways Act of a rate upon all their land. There were about five dissentient votes. There was a very large majority in favour of it, but, owing to the depression, we have not been able to raise sufficient capital for the line. 156. You mean it was proposed to construct it irrespective entirely of the line being completed from Foxton to Wellington? —Yes. It was agreed most decidedly to complete the line if we could raise the money at once. lam one of the directors of the company, and that is the position it is in. If we could only put our hands upon the money at the rate of interest allowed by the Government to be paid, we should have that line constructed.' We understand we could get a line constructed for something like £30,000—a line, about 12 miles in length, passing through perfectly level country. 157. You are aware that there are two proposals—one to take the line from Wellington to Palmerston, and another to take the line from Wellington to Foxtou: have you anything to urge in favour of the Foxton branch in preference to the one proposed to Palmerston? —We urge in favour of the Foxton line for two considerations. The first of these I have tried to show you :it will give the most accommodation to the largest number of people by bringing it to Foxton. We believe that it will open up to the settlers more country that is not so easily accessible now. The Sandon settlers would be in closer communication with the Wellington market than they would be if the line were 2—E. 3.
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taken in any other direction. It is not Foxton alone that is urging it, but the settlers north of us as far as Bulls. They have held meetings once or twice, and have been unanimous in the desire that the point of junction of the West Coast Railway should be at Foxton, on account of the facility they would obtain by the position of the line in saving the roundabout journey they would have to make if they wanted to sei.d anything to "Wellington by rail. There is another view to take of the question: The means of getting gravel for our roads between the Oroua River and the sea has been a matter of grave expense to the country, and the line between Foxton and Saudon runs through a very light description of country till it gets to Sandon. Therefore the settlers cannot carry along the road to Foxton such a heavy load as they can from Sandon along a metal road north of them to Feilding or Palmerston. The settler at Sandon sending his produce to Wellington has therefore, in preference to carting it over the line of road to Foxton, to draw his goods about 20 miles into Palmerston, and send them down to Foxton, some 25 miles, by rail, and thence forward them by steamer. The other view to take of the matter is perhaps an unfair one for us to urge —we onty wish to put our own views before the Commission—and that is, that it would open up, in our opinion, very little Government land. It would be running two lines of railway parallel to one another, with a dislance of only 3 miles between them, for a length of 12 miles. For most of its way from the starting-point it would have land for occupation to the extent of about a mile and a half on each side of it. It would also place the settlers down south of the Manawatu River in the position that they would be cut off from any advantage that they might obtain from the port of Foxton by rail. 158. Mr. Wright.] Can you say approximately what the population south of the Manawatu is ? —It is not very large. I cannot say very well what the population is. The European population is about 197. There is a large population of Natives. We hope the railway will make the population. We consider it one of our grand arguments in favour of the railway that it will develop the land so as to get a population settled there. Mr. Geobge Wakeen Russell sworn and examined. 159. The Chairman.'] You have heard the evidence which Mr. Thynne has given ? —There are one or two matters in respect to which I could give some particulars. 160. Perhaps you will begin by supplementing in that respect Mr. Thynue's evidence ?—I have as a journalist had to make this matter of the railway to Foxton a question of study. With regard to the land referred to as having been purchased, I have brought with me a return of the lands purchased in the North Island from the Natives, and of those under negotiation. la the districts of Waikanae, Otaki, and Manawatu the Government own 214,152 acres. Of this I will refer more particularly to some of the blocks lying between Foxton and Waikanae. There are purchased twelve subdivisions of the Manawatu-Kukutauaki Block, which comprise 27,125 acres. This land lies between the Manawatu and Waikawa Eivers. The distance is about 17 miles from Foxton. The Ohau No. 2 Block, also purchased, comprising 6,360 acres, is about 16 miles from Foxton. The liorowhenua Block, which comprises 52,000 acres, is about 8 miles from Foxton. Upon that the Government have a lien, having paid £1,114 upon it. Of the land that has been purchased, and upon which the Native title is extinguished, there are two blocks, called the Muhuuoa No. 3 and No. 4. Is to theMuhunoa Block No. 3, the inland road from Foxton to Otaki passes through it. It comprises 460 acres only, but immediately behind it is the further block, Muhunoa No. 4, of 3,500 acres. A branch road would reach these 3,500 acres if opened for settlement. Lying between Foxton and Otaki, there are also in the hands of the Crown the Manawatu-Kukutauaki Blocks Nos. 4a, 4c, 4d, 4b, 4g, and part of 4b, which comprise 15,759 acres. Those blocks all have a frontage to the inland road. I would point out, in regard to the blocks of land mentioned, which comprise together about 20,000 acres, that the surveys have been completed, and may state that great surprise is felt by the residents in that part of the Manawatu District that this tract of country was not passed through the Native Land Court at the last sitting at Otaki. I state this upon the authority of a gentleman who resides in that part of the district. According to the census of 1878, the population of Sandon District is 607, the Carnarvon District 658, and the Foxton District 805. These three districts embrace a population of about 2,000. If the line were taken itito Palmerston the distance to be travelled to reach the Wellington line would be so great that they would be almost shut out from the privileges of railway communication with Wellington. For instance, a man who wished to go from Foxton would have first to travel along the present line to Palmerston, 25 miles; he would then travel 20 miles back along the Wellington line, and would then be parallel with Foxton. He would thus have travelled 45 miles before he started on his journey ; whilst settlers from Carnarvon and Sandon would require to travel along the district line to Carnarvon Junction, thence to Palmerston, and so on to Wellington. The opinion of the people who reside in the districts I have named is, that it would be a hai'dship that a couple of thousand people should be almost shut out from railway communication with Wellington by the line being taken into Palmerston. If the line were to come into Foxton the whole of the upper district would share in the benefits it would confer. No part of the district would then be deprived of the advantages, and Palmerston would have its line on to Wellington through Foxton. With regard to the Sandon Railway, the promoters are now waiting for the Governor's consent to the line under the District Railways Act. The plans and full particulars have been in Wellington for some months past. There is, of course, the shortness of the line from liorowhenua into Foxton as compared with Palmerston. The Commission will be aware, from the surveyor's report, that the distance from Foxton to Horowhenua is 10 miles 40 chains, and from Palmerston 26 miles 40 chains. That is shown by Mr. Blackett's report, dated 30th June, 1879. I would like to point out one fact— that is, that while the line from Bunnythorpe to Woodville, a distance of 14 miles 70 chains, is estimated, according to the Appropriation Act of last session, to cost £150,000, the line from Foxton to Waikanae, which will open up the whole of the South Manawatu country, including the Manawatu bridge, is, according to Mr. Knopp's report, dated 29th July, 1878, estimated to cost only £190,000. 161. Mr. Wright.'] Are we to understand that the Native title has been extinguished over the whole of the blocks you mention, with the exception of that block on which you said the Government had a lien ?—Yes. That is only one block of many upon which the Government have liens.
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162. Is the Native title extinguished absolutely on those blocks? —I speak, of course, from the Government return, and judge it is. One part of the return is "Negotiations completed," and the other ia " Negotiations still in Progress." The blocks that have been purchased in Manawatu, Otaki, and Waikanae comprise 214,152 acres; and the number between Foxton and Waikanae upon which there are negotiations in progress embrace 128,630 acres. Between Foxton and Waikanae the Government actually own 74,717 acres. 163. Can you give us any information aa to the export trade of the Manawatu District from Foxton—what it consists of? —It consists mostly of timber, for the simple reason that the people cannot export from the country where the oats and other produce are grown —that is, Sandon. They are selling oats there at Is. per bushel. People cannot get them away. The settlers have told me repeatedly that they would crop ten times the extent of country that they do at present, if there were any means of getting their stuff away. 104. Has the timber trade increased or greatly decreased of late ?—During the past six or eight months it has gone down very much, although from Foxton 1 believe there has been more timber shipped during that period than for some time before. The timber trade in the Upper Manawatu District, I believe, is not prospering so well as it was. 165. That, I understand, is the principal export; you have no other export worth mentioning?— Of course there is the wool, which is a large item ; but, so far as wheat and other cereals are concerned, the reason they are not exported is, because there is no communication between the pore and the districts where they are grown. One very great reason why the people in the grain-growing districts desire a railway from Foxton to South Manawatu is, that so soon as the timber country south of the Mauawatu is settled, they would have a near market for their produce. 166. Would the proposed district railway from Sandon to Foxton open up Government land or Native land? —No ; it is all private land. 167. Of very inferior quality ? —No. I was over a portion of it yesterday at Campbelltown, and there it is splendid land. 168. Mr. Thynne informed us that the soil was so light, and the draught so heavy, that the produce was carted from the Saudon District about 24 miles to Palmerston, and sent thence by railway to Foxton, in preference to carting it direct. I wish to know whether that is due to sandy soil, or, as far as your knowledge goes, to what cause is it due ?—lt is for this reason : that the soil is sandy, and there is no gravel in the district; hence the people are unable to make roads. I think Mr. Thynne explained that towards the north gravel was obtained ; hence roads were made between Sandon and both Palmerston and Feilding. Between Carnarvon Junction and Sandon, until you get one or two miles off the road towards where the bush country lies, the land is mostly very light. The soil being sandy, aud there being no gravel, it would be impossible, without enormous expense, to construct macadamized roads. 169. From Carnarvon, what distance is it to the bush in the direction of Sandon ?—About 8 or 9 miles. 170. So that that district railway would only traverse 4 or 5 miles of good country?—No; because the light country drops off or slopes down into a natural basin ; and directly you pass over the shelf you come on to very fine country, including some open land. 171. On the track of the proposed railway, which you told us would be 12 miles from Carnarvon to Sandon, some 4 or 5 miles only would be through bush land? —Yes. Much of the land is pastoral land, and in many parts it is extremely rich, especially some of the land owned by Mr. Campbell on both sides of the road. 172. Mr. Clark.'] Is Carnarvon the name of the station on the present line ? —Yes. 173. Is it the nearest station to the Sandon District? —Yes, on this side. 174. Then what is the distance from Greatford to Sandon ? —lt is 3 miles from Greatfordto Bulls, and4 from Greatford into Sandon —7 miles into Sandon, and then 12 miles on to Carnarvon. 175. Then the village of Sandon, I suppose, is in the centre of the Sandon District? —Yes. 176. So that, in reality, if the desire of the growers of grain is to have a railway constructed, 7\ miles is the distance from the centre of the district to the nearest station ?—Yes. 177. What is the distance between Greatford and Wanganui, which would then be their nearest port? —About 37 miles. I have been recently over part of the South Manawatu country, within a few miles of Otaki, on this side of it, and I can speak of the excellent character of the soil. There are a number of natural clearings, and upon these the grass was growing almost up to the horse's thighs. The Maoris who own the land between Foxton and Otaki have expressed themselves strongly in favour of the line extending to Foxton. They signed a petition to that effect, which I presented to the Minister of Public Works some few months ago in Wellington. 178. Mr. Wright.'] Did they put any value upon their land when they asked for a railway to be made this way ? —No. 179. Were they willing to give the land required ? —I question i£ they would do that. They have given land for a road between Foxton and Otaki, and they are now making it. It is the agreement that each lia-pu shall make the road through its own part of the land. 180. To be paid for by Government? —Id is paid for out of a vote of £3,000. The road ia being constructed under the supervision of the County Council.
Otaki, Saturday, 13th Maecii, 1880. Mr. Sydney Smith sworn and examined. 181. The Chairman.'] I believe you drive the coach regularly between Foxton and "Wellington? — Ido not regularly drive the coach. I am the town agent for Hastwell, Macara, and Co., coach-pro-prietors. Our coaches work daily, one up and one down. There is another coach between Pahautanui and Wellington, but it does not run on the beach to Poxton. 182. Can you give us any idea as to the number of passengers you usually take on the through line from Toxton to Wellington ? —All the accounts pass through my hands, and I know exactly how many
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passengers travel eacli way. I have here a way-bill showing that there was one passenger to Paikakariki, one to Otaki, and four to Foxton in one day. We consider that a good way-bill. If we carried that number on each coach this line would pay well; but to-day there was only one through passenger from Wellington to Foxton. I dare say that during this week there were two passengers up and two passengers down between Otaki and Wellington —that is, four a week. It does not average more. That is what I call the local traffic. The passenger traffic between Waikanae and Wellington does not average four a month, and between Paikakariki and Wellington it will not average four a month. Mr. Prosser, the proprietor of the other coach, can give a better account of the passenger traffic between Pahautanui and Wellington, because he only charges 45., whereas we charge 10s. for each passenger on that line. 183. Then, with reference to the traffic between Foxtonand Wellington —the through route —how many passengers do you think is the average per month each way ?—ln November, 1879, 109 through, passengers ; in December, 1879, 108 ; in January, 1880, 150 ; and in February, 1880, 110. 184. But you can tell pretty nearly, can you not ? —There are about seven per day, taking them both ways. You may say that there are about forty passengers per week travelling between Wellington and Foxton —that is to say, there would be twenty through passengers each way weekly. 185. Mr. Clark.'] Is there any other intermediate traffic —for instance, between Foxton and Otaki ? Is there any other intermediate traffic, not being through traffic, from Foxton to Wellington ? —No, there is not, except men travelling on horseback. There is no other public coach. Occasionally there are buggies. Numbers of the Maoris have their own buggies, and they drive their own horses as far as Paikakariki on the beach, or sometimes as far as Pahautauui, where they put up their horses, and go to town in our coach or in Prosser's coach. They generally take Prosser's coach. 186. Mr. Wright.'] Can you say whether you were able to obtain sufficient food for your horses in this district last season ? —No. 187. You were not able to obtain sufficient oats or beans ? —No. 188. Where did you get them from ? —We carried them from Wellington, and paid £4 10s. a ton for their carriage. We paid that for fourteen bags from Wellington to Otaki. We paid £3 a ton from Wellington to Waikanae, and £2 a ton to Paikakariki. 189. Colonel Pearce.] Have you any idea as to how many passengers go by sea from Foxton to Wellington ?—No. 190. Have you no means of knowing?—No, except from the papers. [Note by Me. Smith. —I find, on examining my passenger lists, I have over-estimated the number of passengers carried both ways. We have had 447 through passengers in four months, thus averaging thirty a week both ways, or fifteen each way between Wellington and Foxton.]
Wellington, Tpesday, 16th March, 1880. Mr. John Blacicett, C.E., further examined. 191. The Chairman.] In your evidence taken at G-reytown you stated that there had been expended upon the section from Kaiwarra to Johnsonville a sum of about £18,000 in work, plant, and material ? —• Tes. 192. Does the word " plant " include rolling-stock ?—No ; " plant " means the plant on the ground necessary to do the work, such as tools, spades, shovels, barrows, carts, &c. —construction plant. The material includes brick, cement, stone, &c. 193. Well, supposing no other expenditure took place, there would still remain for expenditure £22,000 out of the vote of £40,000 ?—Supposing the vote to be £40,000, that sum would still remain. You will have to go to the Accountant's office for the figures. 194. As far as your department is concerned, the expenditure has only been £18,000 ? —Yes. Of course the expenditure is still going on, and it will be more since I gave my last evidence. There are 150 men constantly employed, and more than £350 is paid weekly in wages. 195. Do you wish to supplement your evidence given at Greytown with respect to the estimates of cost of the line from Wellington to Foxton, and also the line from Mastcrton to Bunnythorpe?—Yes. 196. The figures you gave were entirely from memory, and I thought you would probably wish to give us the exact figures? —I have got a synopsis prepared for the Commission of the mileage and cost of different routes. Seeing the bearing of your questions at Grreytown, I prepared a small sketch, and have gone through it item by item, giving the mileages and costs. [Document put in evidence and read as follows : — Comparison of Routes — Wcllington-Wanganui, Wellington-Napier. Wellington, via Foxton to Palmerston. —Wellington-Foxton, 63 miles 40 chains; Foxton-Pal-merston, 23 miles 30 chains : total, 91 miles 70 chains. 67 miles 40 chains incomplete ; estimated to cost £440,000. A part of the line, between Kaiwarra and Johnsonville, about 5 miles, is in hand. Some rails, sleepers, and stock in hand. Wellington direct to Palmerston. —Wellington-Horowhenua, 57 miles ; Horowhenua-Palmerston, 27 miles: total, 84 miles. 81 miles incomplete; estimated to cost £531,000. A part of the line, between Kaiwarra and Johnsonville, about 5 miles, is in hand. Some rails, sleepers, and stock in hand. Palmerston direct to Woodville. —16 miles 70 chains. 14 miles 70 chains unmade; estimated to cost about £150,000. Wellington via Masterton to Woodville. —118 miles 67 chains. 52 miles 55 chains unmade ; estimated to cost £397,000. Some rails, sleepers, and stock procured. Woodville to Napier.— Woodville-Makatoko, 29 miles 43 chains ; Makatoko-Napier, 69 miles 18 chains: total, 98 miles 66 chains. 29 miles 48 chains incomplete ; estimated to cost £191,000. About 14 miles in hand, with rails, sleepers, and stock for same. Routes Wellington-Woodville. — Via Masterton, 118 miles 67 chains ; via Foxton and Palmerston, 108 miles 40 chains ; via Palmerston, 100 miles 70 chains. Routes Wellington-Wanganui. — Via Masterton and Woodville, 192 miles; via Foxton and Palmerston, 151 miles; via Palmerston, 146 miles; via Foxton, Sanson, and Greatford, 132 miles.]
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197. Witness i I may state with reference to the line from Wellington to Woodville via Masterton that the sum stated by me at Greytown of £453,000 is in error. The total stands corrected as £397,000. The mistake was owing to a miscalculation in the mileage. 198. Colonel Pearce.] The "West Coast route is the shortest, both for Napier and Wanganui ? — Tes. 199. 3lr. Beid.] What would be the relative grades on the two lines?—That is rather a large question, because it is almost necessary to take the lines item by item if you want the information correctly given. 20(5. I mean you to give it generally ? —To go from Wellington via West Coast to Foxton we have alin 40 grade, which is the worst grade. It corresponds nearly with the grades on this side of the Eimutaka. I think there is one place on the Eimutaka which is lin 35. Of course lam not including the Fell incline. 201. The Chairman^ The 1 in 35 grade is beyond the Upper Hult ?—Tes. 202. Colonel Pearce.] The distance of this grade of 1 in 40 would not be nearly as great by the West Coast as over the Eimutaka f —No ; not by one-half. 203. You arc aware that there are two proposals with regard to the line of route after leaving Porirua —one over the low saddle bridging the Porirua Harbour, the other by Pahautanui ? —Tes. 204. Which would be the most costly of these two? —Going by Pahautanui, unquestionably. I have not made estimates out yet, but Ido not think the two things will bear comparison. The cost of constructing a bridge over the narrow part of Porirua Harbour would be small compared with the extra length of line required to go by way of Pahautanui village and then be.ck again, with a curve, to join the original line, there being no low saddle by which the line could be carried directly from Pahautanui. 205. Mr. ClarJc.~\ You gave us the corrected estimate of the cost of the line between Masterton and Bunnythorpe as £397,000 : what portion of that amount is put down as the cost between Woodville and Bunnythorpe ? —I have given it Pahnerston direct to Woodville as £150,000. 206. But if, instead of connecting it with the point between Palmerston and Bunnythorpe called Terrace End, the connection was at Bunnythorpe, would the cost be less? —It would hardly make any difference, because the mileages are so near alike. 207. What is the distance between Wellington and Bunnythorpe via Foxton ? —Ninety-eight miles and ten chains by the existing line. 203. Then, what is the distance between Wellington and Bunnythorpe via Woodville and through the Manawatu Gorge P—One hundred and thirty-three miles and fifty-seven chains. 209. So that communication between Wanganui and Wellington via Woodville would be about 35 miles longer than by Foxton ? —Yes. 210. Or, adding the mileage allowed for the Fell incline, it would be about 40 miles longer ? —Yes. 211. The estimate of the cost of the line between Wellington and Foxton is £440,000: is that exclusive of the amount already expended, or is that the total? —That is the total cost. The money spent is included in the £410,000. 212. There is no contract let for any portion of the work between Masterton and Woodville ?—• No, there is no contract let. There is an order from the Minister now to begin a small portion of the next section, in order to give employment to the men out of work in Wellington and the district generally. 213. Colonel Pearce.'] That is the Opaki extension ?—Yes. It is immediately beyond Masterton. 214. Mr. Clark.'] Is the character of the ground on that section such that you can with advantage do the work by day-labour and by piece-work ?—Yes. I may explain that it is not intended to put a large number of men on that section. The object is to put the men in a position to find other work in the surrounding neighbourhood, carried on by the different counties, Wairarapa East and Wairarapa West. 215. But you could employ a very considerable number of men there with advantage ?—Yes, assuming that it is considered desirable to push the railway works on. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of W. H. Levin, Esq., M.H.E., W. Hutchison, Esq., M.H.E, A. de B. Brandon, Esq., M.H.E., W. W. Johnston, Esq., M.H.E., W. T. L. Travers, Esq., and J. Wallace, Esq. 216. Mr. Travers made the following statement: We are desirous of bringing before the Commission some evidence and facts in connection with the proposed railway between Wellington and Foxton, which we conceive will weigh materially with the Commission in dealing with the matter submitted to them. I wish first to call the attention of the Commissioners to a map prepared some years ago by Mr. Stewart, the Provincial Engineer of Wellington, though not in his official capacity. It is annexed to a paper which he read before the Philosophical Institute, Wellington, on the river systems of the southern part of the Province of Wellington. This map show's the difference in the gradients between the line from Wellington to Foxton and the gradients which would be necessary for a lino on the eastern side of the range; and it specially points to this, that for the distance from the Manawatu Gorge to Pukerua, on the West Coast, on this side of Paikakariki, the line would be practically a dead level. Where it is not a dead level —namely, from the Gorge to the level country —it would be a descending traffic, the descent being equivalent to the run of the river. From the point where the railway would pass across the peninsula at the head of the Porirua Harbour, the total ascent is about 182 feet, and the gradient would be not greater than lin 86. The distance is very short across to the level ground in Porirua Harbour. From thence along the Tawa Flat the ascent is very trifling, being that only of the ordinary flow of the Valley Eiver, which is equivalent, generally speaking, to 30 feet to the mile. From thence to Johnsonville there would be a steeper ascent; but the gradient of that is not steep, and from Johnsonville into Wellington it would be a descending traffic. Looking to the journey northwards, there are only, therefore, the intervening peninsulas which I have referred to which offer anything in the shape of gradients before we again come to the perfectly level country
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between Pukerua and the terminus either at Foxton or at Palmerston. Now, if we take the projected line from Mnsterton through the Forty-mile Bush and the Gorge, we find that from Palmerston to a distance of about 20 miles from Masterton there would be an ascending gradient; and where the line has to cross the watershed between the southern branches of the Manawatu River and the Euamahunga the ascent is considerable. Indeed, the gradients at this point would be considerable on both sides of the watershed. Of course, from Masterton to the point where the railway at present enters the Eimutaka Range there would be a descending traffic, or, at all events, a level traffic. The line passes along the foot of the range of hills, and has the advantage of a descent equivalent to that of the Ruamahuuga River between Masterton and the lake. From there it crosses the Eimutaka Range j and the ascent of that range has necessitated the employment of a class of rolling-stock familiarly known as Fell's, which was originally used on the Mont Cenis line, necessitating a considerable expenditure in working—an expenditure which the Government, in fixing their late traffic rates, have assumed to be equivalent to 5 additional miles —a somewhat important fact in considering all the traffic that must pass over this line if it be the one adopted for the purpose of the West Coast traffic. Although the line is 5 miles shorter than it would be were the gradients such as are usually adopted, nevertheless the public, in paying for the carriage both of passengers and goods, have to pay for 5 additional miles in consequence of these grades. Of course the traffic is a descending traffic to Pitone, at the Lower Hutt; but it is an ascending traffic, and upon extremely steep grades, from the Upper Hutt to the summit of the Eimutaka. It is a fact known to everybody who has travelled on that line that during wet-weather passages the guards of the railway are frequently compelled to get out of the train, in order to strew the rails with sand, so as to enable them to overcome the inclines between the Upper Hutt and the Mungaroa Valley; and, in fact, the gradients are such that they cannot be overcome except by the use of very heavy engines. lam of opinion that these facts should weigh materially with the Commissioners in determining whether the enormous traffic which will be developed on the West Coast should be brought into Wellington by means of a line from Masterton, through the Gorge. I have also here a map showing the Native lands between Waikanae and the Manawatu River, and the position in which they stand with regard to purchase by the Government. I have also returns showing the population and area of land along the West Coast, and also the quantity of land along the eastern side of the Manawatu Gorge. I also hand to the Commission a return of the acreage of land under crop, including grass, on the West Coast, and official returns showing the number of sheep depastured and the yield of wool in the country lying between Wellington and Taranaki. With regard to the probable cost of the railway, the Commissioners will find from the Public Works Department that the sum already expended has nearly completed the earthworks and cuttings on the Crofton Section, which is unquestionably the most troublesome and expensive portion of the line. From that it may be fairly inferred that the outside cost of the line, carried through by Foxton or Palmerston, will not exceed £5,000 a mile, or, in round numbers, about £400,000. Including all appliances, the railway could, in all probability, be opened for traffic for half a million of money. It is, moreover, a point in favour of the line that no compensation has been paid or asked for the land on the Crofton Section ; and there is every reason to believe that the landowners on the remaining portions of the line—to Porirua, and, indeed, throughout the whole distance to Foxton—will be willing to give the necessary quantity of land free of any claim for compensation. We have reason to believe that this will apply both to European owners and Natives. I have been informed personally by several influential Native chiefs that they would be willing, if the Europeans did so, to follow their example in giving the right to construct the line through their land without making any churn for compensation. Another point which I desire to put before the Commissioners is this : The position of the Porirua Harbour is such that, if it were made available by a lino of railway to Wellington, it would enable the passenger and goods traffic of the whole of the northern part of the Middle Island to be carried out with great rapidity and ease. The more difficult part of the navigation between Wellington and this point — the passage round Terawiti —would be avoided, and the distance would be shortened by a considerable number of miles. The immediate completion of that portion of the line would also very greatly facilitate both the sea and land traffic with the West Coast itself. It would enable the class of steamers that now trade between Wellington and-Wanganui lo make the ports of Foxton, Wanganui, and Patea with almost a certainty of renching them within the tide, because, by leaving Porirua, they would avoid that portion of the present navigation which generally imperils their voyage, as far as time goes. There is reason to believe that a very large traffic would spring up in timber, &c, between the northern portions of Nelson and Marlborough Provinces and Porirua, and the goods could bo carried from Porirua Harbour into Wellington by rail. It would also, to a great extent, facilitate the passenger traffic, for people would gladly avail themselves of the means of getting into the quiet waters on the northern side of the strait by starting from Porirua instead of leaving Wellington; and that is a point which I am desirous of pressing strongly upon the Commission, with a view to a suggestion from them that that portion of the line, at all events, should be proceeded with immediately. It would, indeed, be preposterous to allow the present section to be completed without carrying it to a point where the railway would possess features of utility which otherwise it would not present. There are some gentlemen present who are intimately acquainted with the character of the country between Waikanae and Manawatu, and are willing to give evidence. We have also a statement drawn xip, showing the amount of trade carried on by steamers running between Wellington, Foxton, and Wanganui, and the passengers who travel by those steamers. Besides the passengers by steamer, we find that the average of through passengers by coach from Foxton to Wellington and Wellington to Foxton is about seven per diem each way. This is exclusive of passengers picked up on the way from Foxton to Ohau, Otaki, Waikanae, Pahautanui, Porirua, and Johnsonville. Taking in these passengers to intermediate places, instead of being fourteen or fifteen per diem, the number would probably be double. It may be reckoned that at least thirty passengers per diem in all avail themselves of the coach, independently of those that are brought by the small coaches between Pahautanui and Porirua and Wellington. It is very well, known that no one travels along that line, in consequence of the fatigues of the coach journey, except those who are absolutely compelled to do so; and there is no doubt that if a railway were running a great many more people would travel in that direction.
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The Eight Rev. O. Uadfield, Bishop of Wellington, sworn and examined. 217. The Chairman.'] You were, I believe, resident for many years in the District of Otaki ?— Yes. 218. And you are intimately acquainted with the character of the country between Waikanae and Manawatu ? —Yep, I am very well acquainted with it. 219. Probably it will be better if you will be good enough to give the information you wish to lay before the Commission in your own way ? —I merely wish to say that I w ras asked last week if I would give evidence if required, and I consented to do so. I had no wish myself to come here. I have for many years travelled through the whole of that district —Waikanae, Otaki, Waikawa, Ohau, and all those districts. I have ridden over it in various directions. I cannot say what amount of the land has been purchased by the Government, or what amount is under treat}'. I will merely speak as to the quality of the land. I conceive that there is land there of first-rate quality, and, speaking roughly, from the length and breadth of it I should say that there must be 150,000 acres of land, much of which would, if a railway went through it, certainly realize in the market from £8 to £10 an acre. That is my impression of the land from what I have seen of it, as compared with that of other districts through which I have recently passed. 220. Does your estimate of value apply to bush land and open land alike? —The bush land and open land is very much intermingled. I have not recently seen the timber, but at Ohau, and thence to behind Lake Horowhenua, there used to be an immense quantity of valuable totara. The totara forests there used to be the finest in the country. Of course Ido not know whether my opinion is required upon any other subject, such as the features of the country, but I can support what Mr. Travers has already stated —viz., that the line will be almost a level line throughout the whole of the districts I have named. If 1 were asked for an opinion with regard to the line for carrying traffic between Palmerston and Wellington, 1 should say that a line going from Bunnythorpe through the Gorge, round by Woodvillo to Masterton, and thence to "Wellington, would be simply chimerical. Nobody would ever think of sending goods in that direction. I would never do so. Such a line would be almost an absurdity. A line is being made from New Plymouth through the beautiful district of Hawcra, Patea, to Wanganui, and Pa,lmerston or Foxton. If it is to stop there, or to go round the Gorge to Masterton and thence to Wellington, it seems to me that that would defeat the object for which railways exist. It is almost absurd to suppose that any other line can be adopted but that through Palmerston along the West Coast to Porirua Harbour, and thence to Wellington. Having travelled all over that country for years, it seems to me marvellous that such a thing should enter into the head of anybody as to take the line through the Manawatu Gorge and then over the Eimutaka Eange. I certainly think that land might be procured by Government between Manawatu and Waikanae at a moderate price, which would, if sold, realize more than the cost of the railway, if the railway is estimated to cost half a million. 221. Mr. Beid.] Would you have any objection to say what, in your opinion, is the probability of this land being acquired by Europeans, or to say whether the Natives are likely to sell ? —I cannot say ; but I do not think there would be any difficulty in obtaining the land if the Government went about it properly. I have heard Natives express the opinion that they thought the whole of the Native owners of the land in the district would agree to give up the land required for the railway right through. I merely give that as I have heard it stated by several chiefs. How far they would act upon that statement I do not know. 222. You do not know whether there would be any probability of their selling or disposing of the land? —I do not think there would be any difficulty. 223. Mr. Clark.] In estimating the amount of the land between Eoxton and Paikakariki at 150,000 acres, the possible value of which you place at £8 or £10 an acre, have you included much of the sandhill country between the sea-coast and the bush land ? —I am well acquainted with the belt of sandhills on the coast there, and I have excluded that entirely from my estimate. 224. Then your estimate of 150,000 acres would consist principally of the bush laud and open land between the sandhills and the ridge ? —Yes. 225. In referring to the communication or traffic from the W^est Coast passing through the Manawatu Gorge by Masterton as being very absurd, are you aware of the difference in the length of the line between Bunnythorpe and Wellington by way of Masterton, and the distance between Wellington and Bunnythorpe by way of Foxton ? —I never calculated it exactly, but I could do it in a few minutes. Prom Masterton to Bunnythorpe would be, I suppose, 80 miles. These figures are easily obtainable. 226. My question was, rather, whether, in forming the opinion regarding the traffic going through, it was based upon any accurate knowledge of the distance ?—Yes ; I could put that on paper in a few minutes. Allow me to say that Bunnythorpe is a considerable distance from Palmerston. All the traffic from Palmerston and this side would have to go back to Bunnythorpe. lam intimately acquainted with every inch of the country about there. Mr. Aethtjh Beaithwaite sworn and examined. 227. Mr. Travers.] You occupy a run on the Ohau ?—Yes; 1 have rented land from the Natives. 228. You know the country round about ? —I know the country well, as I have travelled over it during the last seven or eight years. 229. You know the back country ? —Yes, I know the back country as well as anybody. 230. Do you know the country between Ohau and the Manawatu EiverP —Yes, I know some of it. I know most of the country back of the Ohau District, Otaki, and the Horowhenua. 231. The Chairman.'] You heard the estimate given by Bishop Hadfield of the quantity of land in that district ? —Yes. 1 think his Lordship's estimate is rather under, if anything, because there is a quantity of land in the gullies between the spurs of the mountains. There are extensive valleys and fiats. Ido not think his Lordship has overestimated the quantity of land, which can be easily ascertained from the surveys.
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232. I do not refer to the actual area of land, but to the acreage of land available for settlement? —There is that quantity of land, at least, available for settlement. 233. Mr. Travers.] Can you state anything as to the quality of the land and its probable value in the market?- —The land from the sea-coast for a mile or two miles is principally sandhills and swamp. The swamp is very good feeding land. It is very good grazing country. There are extensive clearings and Native plantations. It is chiefly bush land, with Native clearings here and there. This part of the country was at one time very thickly populated with Natives. Of course the bush land varies. Some of the richest land in New Zealand is bush land. Part of this land is bush land, and some of it is light bush. Most of the richest land has already been acquired from the Natives. 234. The Chairman.'] Do you mean that the Native title is actually extinguished, or that an agreement has been made for the purchase ?—The Native title is, you may say, virtually extinguished over the land marked red on this map. It has only to go through the Court a second time as a matter of form. All the Natives admit this. They have had their money and are satisfied. The Horowhenua Block belongs, lam told, to Major Kemp. He is the principal owner, and I believe the Government are now negotiating for its purchase. There will be no objection on the part of the Natives to the railway running through their country. They say they will give the land for it. The Manawatu County Council are already forming a road from Otaki to the Manawatu River, and the Natives say they would like the railway to run alongside the road. I only mention this to show that the Natives have already consented to the railway, and would give up the land for a railway. 235. Mr. Travers.] What do you consider to be the value of the land which would be available as agricultural land ?—lt is a very difficult thing to give the value of bush land. I do not consider bush land worth more than £5 or £7 an acre. The land referred to is about the richest bush land I know of anywhere in New Zealand, especially the land from Ohau River to Otaki, which is very rich indeed. I have seen a good deal of it. With regard to the timber, at the back of the Ohau and Horowhenua there is some of the finest totara I have seen in New Zealand. 236. The Chairman.'] Can you give an idea of what acreage there would be of that class of timber ? —It is very difficult to say the acreage. I dare say there would be at least 500 acres. To give an instance of the richness of the timber, I have had sawyers up there, and they have cut 20,000 feet of heart-of-totara timber without moving their pit. In the river-beds there is plenty of metal for railway ballasting ; and there is plenty of totara for sleepers. Ido not suppose there is an easier country in New Zealand through which to construct a railway than from Foxtou to Waikanae, as it is nearly a dead level. 237. Colonel Pearee.] You have travelled a good deal by the coach between Wellington and Ohau ? —No ; I generally drive myself. 238. Are you in a position to give the Commission any idea of the traffic on the road ? In the remarks made by Mr. Travers he stated that the traffic is fifteen persons per diem on an average: are you in a position to say whether that is approximately correct? —I think it is correct. Most of the people go by steamers. They go by railway to Foxton, thence by steamer to Wellington. I may state there was a gentleman over here lately from Australia who has been travelling in New Zealand. He went overland from Auckland to Napier, and from Napier to Wellington. When I saw him in Wellington I took him up the Ohau to show him the country. I showed him the Native clearings about the country there. He afterwards went to Canterbury, to Oamaru, Timaru, Dunedin, Invercargill, and Wakatipu. I asked him what he thought of New Zealand. He said, " I saw no place in New Zealand equal to the country you showed me at Ohau for fertility of soil." 239. As far as your knowledge goes, does the land in the Ohau District bear favourable comparison with the land between the Horowhenua and Manawatu ? —Yes; because some parts of this land are much richer. Ohau is a sort of basin, and the land is more liable to bo flooded. The land is very rich about Ohau. The bush gets heavier as you go south of Ohau as far as Waikawa ; then it gets lighter. Mr. James G-bak sworn and examined. 240. Mr. Travers.] I believe you are the owner of considerable tracts of land near Otaki?—l have a lease of a considerable quantity of land from the Natives on the south side of the Otaki. 241. Do you know the country north of the Otaki? —Yes. I have been trading amongst the Natives right through that country for the last twelve years. 242. Are you acquainted with the character of the soil ?—Yes. I think Mr. Braithwaite gave a good opinion of it. His idea of it appears to be the same as my own. 243. Are you able to form any opinion as to the extent of country ? —Yes ; there is a very large extent of country. 244. What do you consider the fair value of that country if it were in the market and a line of railway made to it?—l would not like to speak as to the value. The greater portion of the land there is as good as any land I know of in the country, especially the land about Ohau, and away down to Otaki. I have been a great deal in that part of the country. 245. Is it good land ? —Yes ; in some places there is soil 5 or 6 feet deep. 246. Speaking generally as to the character of the land between Otaki and Manawatu, is it good or indifferent land ? —Well, taking it as a large block, I would say it is very good. There are a few places a little stony. 247. Do you know the timber ?—Yes. 248. What kind of timber is it ? —There is a very good timber in the Ohau District, of which Mr. Braithwaite gave a description. I know the timber very well. As a rule it is very light bush, and throughout nearly the whole bush there is totara. There are very large trees of matai and rimu, but they are very scarce. It is a small, scrubby kind of bush. There are very large rata trees in the bush. 249. That class of bush generally indicates rich soil, does it not ?—Yes. 250. Do you know of any land transactions in that neighbourhood ? —Yes ; I have known people who have been trying for many years to get land there, and who would be very glad to get it.
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251. Do you know of any actual transactions ? —Yes, I know of a good number of land transactions with people at Otaki. Mr. Booth bought some land about 3| miles inland. 252. Have you any idea of the price paid ?—I have no idea of the price he gave for it. A man named Bright has bought some land there. There are five or six other people who have settled there during the last five years. 253. Do you know the land about Fitzherbert Town ?—No. I have been up there, but I have no idea of the land in that locality. I might say that the climate there is very good. Cattle will fatten there all the winter through, and in any month in the year. There are few places where you can do that. Ido not think it is bad land that will produce beef in the worst months of the year. 254. You trade largely in stock ?—Yes. 255. Where do you get your largest supplies from? — From the West Coast. 25G. From the country you speak of? —Well, further on than the country I speak of. The settlers are very limited in the country I speak of. They are principally Natives, who have a great deal of stock of their own. 257. Assuming that a railway line were constructed from Wellington to Foxton, would it much facilitate your operations with stock ? —lt would make it much more convenient certainly. We have now to get all our sheep and stock to Wellington by steamers. We run a great risk in bringing them by steamers. Sometimes there are a good many dead sheep. Within the last five months 1 have had 10,000 sheep brought down bv steamers from that district—that is, from Foxton and Wanganui to Wellington. 258. Colonel JPearee.'] You have been in the habit recently of bringing sheep from the Wairarapa by the railway ?—Yes. 259. Do you find it is more worth your while to pay the cost of transit by railway than to drive them ? —Yes. I think it is much better to get them by railway for killing purposes. By driving them you lose at the very least a shilling a sheep. I have tried the experiment of driving them and of bringing them down by train, and I found the result to be in favour of bringing them by rail long distances such as our journeys are. There are no sheep until you get on the other side of the Rimutaka. 260. Then, in your opinion, is it likely that a line from Foxton to Wellington would yield a good return from the traffic in sheep and cattle ? —Yes, most decidedly. Any one requiring stock in Wellington would prefer bringing them by rail to driving them down the coast. It takes seven days to bring them down from Foxton. I have known them to lose very nearly a hundredweight in flesh through driving them in the winter weather. If you could land the cattle here in a night or a day, you could scarcely estimate the benefit that would be derived. It is a very difficult matter getting stock to Wellington. It is a very bad road. From the moment you leave Foxton there is no accommodation for them on the road. 261. Can you get a more suitable supply of cattle and sheep from the West Coast than you can from the Wairarapa ?—Yes ; we get the cattle and sheep in much better condition along the Coast than from the Wairarapa. 262. In short, for that purpose the Coast line would be more useful than the present Rimutaka line?— Still, if I had stock on the West Coast, and there was a railway to bring them down, 1 would certainly bring them by rail in preference to bringing them all that distance by any other meaus. 263. Mr. Travers!] Are you in the habit of purchasing store cattle on the East Coast, and do you send them to the West Coast for the purpose of fattening.?— Yes. A regular trade has been going on during the last four or five years. 264. Mr. Clark.'] Supposing that communication was opened with the West Coast by the Wei* lington and Masterton line through the Manawatu Gorge, imposing perhaps an additional length of railway of 38 miles, would that preclude you from bringing fat stock from the West Coast by rail? —■ That would be 38 or 50 miles extra, and there is a charge of so much per mile. Then it would become a question whether it would not be cheaper to bring them by steamer than to go so far round with them. It is a matter of pounds, shillings, and pence, bringing stock round. If it would involve a considerable sum to take them further round, I should prefer to put them in the steamer. If you put sheep into a truck, the longer they are in the truck the more likely you are to have them smothered. I question whether you could put sheep into trucks and leave them a day and a night or two days, unless there was plenty of room for them. I get all my sheep now by train from the Wairarapa. We have to wait three hours with them at the Eimutaka. They go up the incline before the passenger train starts iu the morning. They go to the bottom of the hill and are then shoved up to the top in three or four truck-loads, and wait there until the other train goes by. They have to be put up the Fell incline in lots. 265. You object to send sheep round, not only on account of the increased mileage, but also ou account of the longer time it takes ? —Yes. 266. Are you aware that the increased mileage going by Bunny thorpe is 37 miles, adding the 5 miles for the Fell incline ? —I have no knowledge of the mileage. All I know is that 5 miles have been added to the freight. 267. In speaking of the additional cost of the extra mileage, you have not calculated it ?—I have not gone into that, but I fancy the time you would have the stock in the trucks would be a considerable objection. I bring 250 head of fat stock, and the other butchers 150 head, a month from the West Coast for Wellington trade. 268. Mr. Travers: I wish to call the attention of the Commission to the report of the HuttWaikanae Committee, submitted, together with the evidence, to the House of Representatives in October, 1877. They appear in Vol. 11. of the Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1.-12. You will find that Sir William Fitzherbert, iu his evidence, stated that which is similar to the statement made by Bishop Ha&field —namely, that out of upwards of 400,000 acres, there were about 150,000 or 200,000 acres of excellent land. All of the witnesses spoke of it as land that would fetch a large price. 269. Mr. Johnston: Some little time ago, Mr. Macandrew, in asking the Legislature to authorize the construction of the West Coast Railway, gave the House to understand that at all events a very 3-E. 2. '
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large part of the cost of the railway would be recouped to the colony by the sale of the land through which the railway would run. I may say that I know, of my own knowledge, that the Government have been negotiating for this land for a great many years. It is to me quite unaccountable why the Government have not acquired it, inasmuch as the profit on the land, to some extent, is specially dedicated to the construction of this line of railway. I understand the scope of your functions to include the possibility of the colony having sufficient means and ways to construct the various railways authorized. I would like to submit to you whether it is not also within the scope of your functions to make some inquiries at the Native Office how it is the negotiations the Government have had with the Natives for a long time remain always pending and always incomplete. 270. The Chairman : That is a matter we shall iuquire into to-morrow. We shall get evidence from the Native Department on that subject.
Wellington, Wednesday, 17th Maech, 1880. Mr. Eichaed John Gill, Under-Secretary, Native Laud Purchase Department, sworn and examined. 271. The Chairman."] The Commission are inquiring into the route of the proposed railway from Wellington to Foxton. They understand that the lino will pass through a considerable quantity of Maori land, some of which, as far as they understand, is still entirely in the possession of the Natives, and other parts of it under negotiation with the Government. The Commission are desirous of obtaining information as to the precise position of each block of land through which the railway would pass ?—I am not cognizant of the line of route of the railway. I would ask you to look over the plan I produce, which is on a large scale, and shows the blocks of land between Waikanae and Foxton. It shows land in the hands of Natives, land under negotiation, and land already purchased. 272. With regard to that part of the land which is not coloured —for instance, Block Ngarara— what is its position ?—I cannot say whether it is Native land or whether it is land that has been purchased in the old days by the Government. I produce a return of lauds purchased, leased, or under negotiation (Parliamentary Paper C.-4, 1879). 273. When a block of land is put under the heading " Purchased," does that mean in every case that the Native title is entirely extinguished ? —Not in every case. I will explain why. These lands passed the Native Land Court in 1874, under an interlocutory order, the surveys being incomplete. It is only within the last few months that the surveys have been completed. The final order of the Court has not yet been issued. lam only waiting now for the Court's order to be issued to gazette the blocks of land referred to as waste lands of the Crown. 274. Do I understand that the purchase of these lands has been so far completed that it is not in the power of the Natives legally to repudiate the purchase ? —No, it is not in their power to do so. The deeds are registered. 275. Then, in fact, there is little more than a legal form to go through to vest the lands in the Crown? —Nothing more. 276. Is there a column in the return produced showing lands under negotiation ?—Yes. 277. Are any of the lands in this return of lands under negotiation situated between Waikanae and Foxton ? —Tes. 278. What is the position of those blocks of land which are still under negotiation, and are not yet completely purchased—l mean generally, without going into details? —The surveys are incomplete, and the Native Land Court has not yet given a title to them. 279. Then are we to understand that the bargain with the Natives is complete —that the whole of the purchase-money has been paid to them, that there is no dispute with respect to the actual owners of the land, and that it is a mere matter of a reasonable time before the proceedings by the Court can be completed, when the land will become vested in the Crown ? —No. But a small portion of the purchase-money has been paid, because the owners are not yet known. The Court has not yet determined the title. 280. Then, in point of fact, in many eases no price has been definitely agreed upon ? —Yes, the price has been agreed upon in ail cases. The price was agreed upon in 1873. Since then the value of land has risen, and it would be impossible to complete the agreement unless at greatly-increased prices. In many cases the area of the land bargained for cannot now be bought, the Natives being desirous of setting aside large reserves. 281. Can you give approximately the acreage of land to which the last part of your evidence refers —the land between Waikanae and Foxton ?—About 70,000 acres. The acreage of land between Waikanae and Palmerston in the same position as regards title is 134,000 acres. 282. The Commission are anxious to arrive at some idea of the time at which it is probable these lands may be vested in the Crown, and be available for sale ; but, as it appears that the question of price is still altogether open, I conclude you cannot give anything like definite information of when it is likely the purchases can be completed?—l think the purchases should all be brought to a close within twelve months from this date, but not to the whole extent of the area, in consequence of the reserves the Natives wish to make. 283. Can you give approximately the extent to which the area will probably be diminished by these reserves? —I cannot, the land not being surved. With regard to the Manawatu-Kukutauaki Blocks (five blocks of 12,000 acres), I think one-half of the area of these will be reserved for the Natives' use and occupation. 284. I presume it is likel3 r the Natives will be anxious to retain some of the best land in their own hands ?—No doubt they will prefer the flat land. 285. You stated that the negotiations for these lands took place in 1873 —that the price was agreed upon between the Natives and the Government in that year? —Yes. 286. Can you give any idea as to the cause of the delay of six or seven years which has taken place in the completion of those purchases ?—The Native Land Court not having individualized the title is the cause of the delay in the completion of the purchase.
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287. Is that owing to the Native Land Court being overcharged with business?—l cannot give you an opinion upon that. 288. It is not, so far as you are aware, owing to any difficulty in reference to the surveys ?—These lands are not yet surveyed. 289. Do you consider that the delay is mainly attributable to that fact ?—The delay is attributable to the title to the land not being investigated. 290. Is it the duty of the Native Land Court to investigate that title, or is it rather the duty of the Government to bring the question of title before them in order that it may be adjudicated upon ? —The application for investigation of title comes from the Natives themselves. 291. Then, are we to understand that the Natives have been backward in making application for an investigation into the title, and that the delay has arisen from that cause? —I cannot say. That is a matter of fact which can be ascertained, as to whether the applications have been sent in or not. 292. Mr. Clark.] What office are you in ? —My position is ITnder-Secretary of Native Land Purchases in the North Island. 293. When a purchase is made of lands from the Natives, and a price paid on account, is it the practice for the Purchase Department to wait until the Natives choose to apply for the title to be investigated ; or is it not then in the hands of the department ? —The department assist the Natives all in their power in sending applications for investigation of title. Invariably they are made out by the officers of the department; and until the land is surveyed the title cannot be extinguished. 291. What 1 wish to know is this: after a certain portion of the Natives have agreed to sell a block of land, does the application to investigate the title to that land rest with the Natives or with the Purchase Department ? —Until last year the application for investigation of title was required to be made by the Natives themselves. 295. At that time had the Government to wait until the Natives chose to move after the bargain was made and a certain amount of money paid? —I take it that the officers would not do their duty if they did not see that the application was sent in immediately ; and I believe that in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred that has been the case. 296. What is the rule which now prevails, or, rather, what was the law regarding this matter within the last twelve months? —The Native Minister can move the Native Land Court now to inquire what interest Her Majesty has in any block of land. 207. Before the Native Land Court can determine upon the question, is it necessary that a complete survey should be before the Court?- —It is not now necessary. It can pass under a provisional survey now under the Amending Act of 1877 or 1878. 298. Before that it was necessary ? —The Deputy Inspector of Surveys could give better evidence upon that point. lam merely speaking from memory. 1 believe it was absolutely necessary for the Deputy Inspector of Surveys to certify to the correctness of the plan before the Court would grant an order. 299. Then, seeing that getting the land surveyed was the first step towards going on with the purchase, can you inform the Commission why the Survey Department did not get those necessary surveys ? —No, I cannot. I know that the department has been very much over-pressed with work, and I attribute it to that fact. 300. Are you aware whether the matter of having that work pushed on was ever pressed upon the department by the Land Purchase Department ?—I know it was, many times. 301. Reference has been made to the Manawatu-Kukutauaki Blocks, and to the Natives declining to carry out fully the arrangements made: were those arrangements made in such away that the Natives who entered into them can be compelled to carry them out as regards their portion of those blocks? — It is very hard to compel a Native to do anything. I cannot say what might be done in a Court of law. 302. You have stated 134,000 acres as an approximate quantity of land under negotiation between Waikanae and the Manawatu: can you inform the Commission of what portion of that land you consider the department will be able to conclude the purchase on the original terms, or give an approximation ? —A bout one-half. 303. Colonel Pearee.'] Is the Commission correct in understanding that since the year 1877 it was necessary to have surveys made before the Court could deal with Native lands? —No ; the Court did deal with lands. It merely issued an interlocutory order. It was necessary for the lands to be surveyed before a final order could be issued. 304. Did I understand you to say that a provisional certificate could be issued for unsurveyed land after purchase ? —No. 305. Then, until the surveys are complete, no land can vest in the Crown ? —No land can vest in the Crown until it has been surveyed. 306. Then, even after the land has been paid for, the Natives might refuse to go on with the sale ? —A Native may sell a block of land to the Government, and yet the Government may have no title beyond what the Native himself possesses. 307. Are you aware whether any of the officers of the Native Land Purchase Department have themselves bought land from the Natives in those districts which were alluded to just now? —Tes, I know of one instance, which has been the subject of inquiry. 308. Is that the case of Mr. Eichard Booth ?—Yes. 309. Is he still employed by the department ? —He is not. 310. Then, are these other officers now on that coast negotiating with the Natives to try and bring matters to a completion ? —Yes. 311. And there is now a reasonable hope of bringing to a conclusion pending negotiations within twelve months ? —I believe so. 312. Mr. Clark.] Are you aware whether the Natives object to the survey of any of the land referred to in those blocks under negotiation ?—I will not speak of the present time, but they have within the last twelve months objected to the survey. 313. Does that answer refer to any considerable portion of the land now referred to ? —Yes.
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314. Are you aware whether those objections to the survey are overcome ?—They have mainly been got over. I might state that more survey work has been done in the land referred to during the last nine months than during the previous three years. 315. In the cases in which the objections have been got over, are the surveyors at work now ? —I believe the surveys are completed. They are either completed or in progress. 31(3. Colonel Pearce.] Are you aware whether the Natives will raise any objections to the line of railway passing through their land between Waikanae and Foxton? —I cannot say. 317. Who should bo able to say ? —The Native Minister or the Native Department. 318. Mr. Clark.'] Is the land in the Horowhenua Block, consisting of 52,000 acres, in the list of lands under negotiation by the Government?—Yes. 319. Since those negotiations were entered into, have the Natives signified their intention or their wish that the whole of that block should be retained by them ?—Not the whole of the block. 320. Can you give an idea regarding the number of acres out of that 52,000 acres they wish to retain ? —Nearly the whole of it. 321. Have any negotiations been entered into for the purchase of the land immediately round Otaki village?—No ; not by the Government. 322. Are the houses occupied by Europeans in Otaki village built on Native land? —I cannot say.
Chkist.chuech, Satukday, 20Tn Makch, 1880. A deputation waited upon the Commissioners at half-past 2 o'clock, in the Public "Works Office, to urge upon them the desirability of constructing the railway so as to go from Sheffield to Coalgate, through the Waianiwaniwa Valley, thence to Glentunnel, and on through the Wairiri Valley to the Rakaia Gorge, instead of taking the line—for which tenders have been called for by the Government — from Homebush to Hororata. The deputation consisted of Messrs. John Beaumont, John Deans, J. Mcllwraith, and Dr. Turnbull. 323. Mr. Beaumont made the following statement: The deputation have waited upon the Commissioners regarding the proposed railway from Coalgate to Hororata. We petitioned the Government some time ago, asking for inquiry into the alternate route via Wairiri Valley. We received in reply a telegram from the Minister for Public Works, stating that he would withhold the acceptance of tenders for the Hororata Railway until the Commission had inquired into the matter. We produce a map of the district showing the proposed line from Homebush to Wairiri, also the line from Homebush to Hororata, for which tenders have been called for. The advertised line goes through country very sparsely jiopulated, and there is no goods traffic but grain or wool to be conveyed by it; the line we propose to have constructed would go from Sheffield by Waianiwaniwa and. Wairiri Valley to the Rakaia Gorge via Coalgate and Glentunnel, the line to branch from the present station at Glentunnel through the Wairiri Valley to the Rakaia Gorge. The advertised line would not open up so much country as the one we propose, which would go right through a coal country from Sheffield to Coalgate. The country there also contains marble, limestone, pigment, building-stone, and fireclay. The advertised line and its extension would go through poor agricultural country, without minerals of any kind; the country through which the line we propose would pass is already settled. There are no waste lands of the Crown to be opened up by either line of railway, except among the hills. The line we advocate would run along good solid ground, skirting the edge of a swamp, and not going through that swamp as stated in the Engineer's report. We propose to continue the lino from Glentunnel to a point two miles above Windwhistle. There has been a flying survey made of the line up to the Wairiri Saddle, 7 miles above the Gorge, on the Acheron River. A branch of the line we propose will reach a valuable coal mine of true anthracite coal, equal to anything found in New Zealand. There is a seam between three and five feet thick. The length of the line from Sheffield to Coalgate would be 5 miles, and thence to the Rakaia Gorge about 14 or 15 miles. There is a coal field at Sheffield, and the mineral is traced along the hills, and is being worked at Gleutunnel. About fifteen men are working at the coal mine at Glentunnel. The branch lines were originally made for the purpose of tapping the coal mines. The demand for this coal is increasing, as the people are now using it more freely. There are three coal mines at work —at Glentunnel, Sheffield, and Springfield. From Sheffield the coal extends right through to the Rakaia Gorge, as can be seen by Dr. Haast's geological map. lam of opinion that in a few years the collieries opened at present will not be able to supply the demand, and that fresh means will have to be taken for opening up other coal mines. There are about thirteen collieries at work in Otago, supplying Dunedin and the surrounding districts with coal. We have nearly as large a population as there is in Dunedin, and no doubt it will increase, so that there will be a larger demand for our coal. Mr. Albert Duncan Austin, District Engineer, sworn and examined. 324. The Chairman.'] I believe tenders have been called for for a section of a line of railway between Homebush and Horarata? —Yes. 325. You are aware that some of the inhabitants of that part of the country wish the Hue to go in a different direction ? —Yes ; I have heard a good deal of talk about the matter. 326. It is with the view of opening up mineral country ? —Supposed mineral country. Ido not think it may be said to have developed into a mineral country yet. 327. Have you made any survey of the proposed line at the foot of the hills ?—There were two or three surveys made before I came to the district bv Mr. Marchant, who was in the Public Works Office. 328. Is the line for which tenders have been called a better line from an engineering point of view ?—Yes; it is more level, and it forms a part of the Canterbury Interior Main Line. We have abandoned the idea of crossing the Rakaia River at the Gorge. 329. Can you state which line would serve the greatest quantity of agricultural land ?—I think the one the Government have adopted,
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330. Then, with regard to population, which line would serve the largest existing population ?—I could scarcely say, not knowing the country very intimately. The one projected by the Government, reaching the Hororata Township, would, I think, servo as many settlers as the other line. 831. Then, with regard to minerals, do Ijunderstaud you that they are not developed to an extent to make it desirable to construct a line on purpose for them ; or that you think the object of a main line and of serving these mineral districts could not be combined? — They could not be combined with advantage, at all events. 332. Mr. Wright.'] Have any instructions been given to proceed with the line between Sheffield and Homebush ?—No, not at present. We do not regard it as necessary to be done in the meantime, railway communication already existing by a more circuitous route between those two points. 333. In your opinion, are the mineral resources of the district sufficiently served for the present by the existing branch lines to Sheffield and White Cliffs ? —Yes, I think so ; but I have not a very intimate knowledge of the minerals of the country. 334. What is your opinion as to the relative advantage of tapping the Hororata District by a direct branch to the inaiu south line at a point between Dunsandel and the Bakaia? —I think the line we have now advertised the best. In fact, the construction of a main line was adopted with the view of obviating the necessity for the construction of so many of these branch linos. It has been found exceedingly awkward to work so many branch lines. 335. What is the estimated cost of the section now advertised, approximately ?—I think between £9,000 and £10,000. I could state the exact amount by referring to the papers. 336. Colonel Penrce.~\ What is the objection to the Gorge bridge? —There arc two objections. One is, that it goes to the extreme end of the country fit for agricultural purposes, which is not desirable. It is better that the line should be fed on both sides. If you take the line too close to the foot of the hills, you only get traffic on the one side. The construction of the line at the Gorge would be found excessively costly, inasmuch as the curves and gradients are more severe. 337. In your opinion, the supply of coal from that district would not compensate for the loss of the agricultural traffic on the main line ? —No, Ido not think it would. It does not fall in with Mr. Blair's views of the main line at all. It does not form part of the original scheme of the maiu line. If the minerals are so valuable, I would suggest the construction of a small branch line. 338. 3lr. Clark.] In speaking of the coal fields extending along by the Malvern Hills as being problematical, what indications of any have been found ?—I do not know whether they have been opened up sufficiently to show whether they are well-marked seams or large deposits. 339. Then you are not aware whether they have had any borings ?—No, I am not. 340. And you are also not aware to what extent the fields towards the Eakaia Gorge have been explored ? —I do not know. 341. Mr. Wrif/ht.l We were told by the deputation that waited upon us just now that there was a very good crossing-place for a railway some 2 miles above the Rakaia Gorge : have you examined that part of the river? —Tes ; I visited the spot in company with Mr. Blair. We found that no good crossing-place existed, and that it would require a bridge of a clear span of 600 feet.
Sheffield, Tuesday, 23bd March, 1880. The Commission received a deputation from the ratepayers of Sheffield, consisting of Dr. Meadows, Messrs. W. Rossiter, McMillan, Taylor, Brown, Lilly, aiid Heighway, who laid before the Commissioners the following resolutions passed at a meeting of the ratepayers on the previous day : — " In absence of general information as to where the Oxford line of railway is coming, this meeting proposes its route to be on the Keserve No. 413, running into Sheffield, making Sheffield its junction." "That the deputation be requested to represent to the Railway Commissioners the desirability of considering the route through Russell's Mat, Pig Saddle, South Malvern, and the Wairiri and Waianiwaniwa Valleys, as agreed to at a former public meeting of the ratepayers." 342. Mr. Bossiter made the following statement: In reference to the proposed route of the line from West Oxford to Sheffield, the ratepayers are under the impression that the Government Engineer proposes to take the line by way of Waddington, and we wish to express our views on that point. If that arrangement is carried out, the station will be put 2 miles away from Sheffield, which we consider would be very much against the interests of the district. The terminus is made at present at each end of the line. The land is already reserved for the purpose, and we think there could be no harm in making the station at Sheffield instead of having it at Waddington. As the main traffic will be from Sheffield to Oxford, we consider that the station should be at Sheffield. If the station is placed at Waddington it will be of very litile use to Sheffield. There is no supply of coal at Oxford, and if the junction is placed at Sheffield we expect that there will be considerable traffic between the two places, coal being sent from Sheffield to Oxford and timber from Oxford to Sheffield. If the station is placed at Waddington it will divert the traffic, because it would be much better to send the traffic by the ordinary roads rather than have to unload the conveyances at Waddington. 343. Colonel Fcarce : Do the authorities give any reason why the line should go by Waddington ? 314. Mr. Rossiter : We have heard that Mr. Austin, District Engineer, is of opinion that the line should go by Waddington. If that is done there would have to be a separate goods station and all other station requisites at Waddington. We were always led to believe that the station would be at Sheffield. 345. Dr. Meadows: The nearest point of the railway to the Waimakariri Gorge is close to the Sheffield Station. 346. Mr. Wright: You think that the shortest route would be to join Sheffield by way of the old reserve ? 347. Dr. Meadows : Tes. 348. Mr. Wright; I may as well inform the deputation that this route is not yet surveyed beyond the cuttings at the Gorge. I have spoken to Mr. Austin on the subject, and ho informed me that the survey had not been made, but that it was his intention, and Mr. Blair's iutentiou, to take the line
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out to the eastward below Malvern, with the view of getting round the Downs some years hence, when tho Canterbury Interior Main Line may be undertaken. But, leaving the Canterbury Interior Main Line out of the question, they may be of opinion that what you suggest will be the shortest and best way to carry out this service. One point you urge is that sufficient station-buildings are already in existence at Sheffield, and that it will be necessary to buy land at Waddington. 319. Mr. Bossiter : Yes; there is everything here at present. There is a station here, and a sufficient staff to work the two lines. 350. Mr. Clark : You contend that if tho station were placed at Waddington new buildings would be required, and double expense would be incurred, not only for buildings, but for an additional staff? 351. Mr. Bossiter : Yos ; not only that, but it would make the traffic less. 352. Mr. Olar/c : I cannot see how it would make the traffic much less. It would only be 1J miles additional length. 353. Mr. Sossiter : To Sheffield it would be more. For any one wanting timber from Oxford it would be much better to send round by road. There would be a great deal of extra expense if the timber came up to this proposed new station near Waddington, because the person wanting the timber would have to come to Sheffield and then go round to the proposed new station. If the railways were connected between this and Oxford the timber would be sent down farther than Ashburton. This would be much the shorter route. With regard to the second resolution passed by the meeting, the Commissioners have been over the country alluded to, and will therefore be able to form an opinion. The question has been agitated in the district for some time; and all the ratepayers wish for is that the Commissioners should take all the proposed routes into consideration, because the districts mentioned in the resolutions are supposed to be rich in coal and other minerals. 354<. The Chairman : With reference to both the points mentioned, I think the Commission can do no more than take tho representations of the deputation into consideration. 355. Mr. Wright : There is one point which I think the deputation forgot to mention with regard to making the proposed junction at Sheffield —that is, if that were done the railway would be brought to a common starting-point when the question of further extension is considered. It is undetermined yet, and possibly will be so for some years, whether the railway shall go outside the Downs, or go across any of the saddles mentioned in the resolution ; but if the junction were made at Sheffield, it would be a centre common to the district.
HinujNtn, "Wednesday, 24th Mabch, 1880. Mr. Feedeeick Witiiee, Assistant Engineer, sworn and examined. 356. The Chair-man.'] You are, I believe, in the Public Works Department, and are in charge of the Weka Pass Section of the main trunk line ? —Tes. 357. Have you been in charge from the beginning of the works on this section ? —Tes. 358. How long is it since the section was commenced? —It was commenced early in June, 1879. 359. Can you tell the Commission about the number of men at present at work ?—About sixty. 360. Has that been about the average number of men ? —No ; we have not yet got into working order. New men come on every day, and some men, not being satisfied with the rate of pay, leave every day. 361. Has the number you state been about the usual number of men emploj'ed?—We want to make the number up to a huudred, so as to put the whole work in hand, and we have not been able to get that number. 362. What is the length of the section?—Nine miles. The section commences on the north side of the Waipara Kiver, and extends into the Waikari Valley. 363. Do you know what is the total estimated cost of that section ? —No, 1 do not. 361. I suppose you are not able to say approximately what amount has already been expended upon it? —We have expended about £15,000 in addition to the money paid for materials, of which I have no account. 365. Can you say whether that section for the most part passes through private land or Crown land ?—I believe it passes through private land entirely. 366. Can you say whether that private land extends to a considerable distance on each side of the lino ?—lt extends several miles oneach side of the line. 367. Supposing the line were to end with the section on which you are engaged, do you think much traffic would be brought along it unless it was extended farther ? —I do not think much more than the wagons now take down. There might be a little more grain grown. Jt is only within the last year or two that the property-owners have grown any grain worth mentioning. 368. Is the quantity grown in the district that would be served by that section at all considerable ? —The grain is grown chiefly at this end of the terminus. 369. I suppose there would be a certain quantity of wool brought down ? —Yes ; the wool that the wagons now bring would be brought to the Waikari and conveyed from thence by rail to Christchurch. 370. I conclude that the prospect of the line paying would depend principally upon its being continued as the main trunk line ? —I should think so. 371. Mr. Clark.'] What is the distance between, the end of the section at present in progress at Waikari and Hurunui ?—About 8 miles to the Ilurunui bridge. 372. Would the construction of the additional 8 miles induce the squatters themselves to grow grain or cut up their land for small settlers ? —Mr. Moore, of Glenmark, has already intimated his intention of cutting up his land about the present terminus. That would be done whether the line were extended or not. 373. The construction of the additional 8 milea of railway will not affect the production of grain from that run ? —No, not in the immediate vicinity of the line. Mr. Moore holds nearly all the land that the line would run through.
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3?4. To open any considerable extent of agricultural land you would consider it necessary to extend the line farther than merely the additional 8 miles bringing it to Hurunui?—Yes, I think so. If the Hurunui Kiver were bridged that might make a considerable difference. 375. How far do you consider it would be necessary to extend the line beyond the bridge to have the effect of increasing the area of land brought under cultivation? —I do not think it would be necessary to extend the line beyond the north bank. 376. To extend it beyond the north bank, would that be covered by 8 miles from Waikari ?— Yes. 377. Is the land on the north bank of the Hurunui contiguous to where the river would be crossed by this bridge Crown land, or is it in the hands of private parties ?—No ; I think it is all held by private individuals. 378. Mr. Wright.'] Can you say approximately what would be the total cost to complete the section from Waipara ? — I should say that nearly £15,000 would be required. 379. Is not the section from Waikari to Hurunui much easier to construct than that from "Waipara to Waikari ?—Yes, much easier; there would be no heavy work in it. 380. Are you aware of the extent of agricultural land in the Amuri District ? —No, I am not. 381. Do you know approximately the length of the valley? —No. 382. I mean the distance from the Hurunui to the Waiau accommodation-house?—lt is about 23 miles. 383. Have you ever travelled over that district ? —No ; I have never been to the Waiau Township. I have been to the Upper Waiau some years ago. 384. Then, if you have travelled to the Upper Waiau, have you not travelled the district between here and Montrose ? —Yes, some years ago, but not to take much notice either of the quality of the country or the nature of the land for railway construction. 385. Supposing there are 100,000 acres of good agricultural land on the Amuri Plain, do you not think that would be brought within a marketable distance for agricultural purposes by the extension of the line to the Hurunui ?—lt is rather doubtful. I think the carriage would be too far to the Hurunui. 38(3. What is the distance from Lyttelton to Hurunui ? —About GO miles by the railway. 387. Then, in your opinion 60 miles of railway-carriage would shut out any district as an agricultural district? —No; I think that the road-carriage from the terminus to the greater part of the agricultural land would be too groat in addition to the freight by rail. 388. What would be the average road-carriage from the Amuri District to the Hurunui Bridge ? —About 12 miles. 389. How many of " the unemployed" had you at work last winter on the Weka Pass Section— I mean the general average ?—About 250 would be the general average. 390. What average wages did they earn? —About 6s. per day. 391. A day of how many hours?—A day of eight hours. 392. What are your present instructions with regard to the wages to be paid to the men now being taken on ? —Twenty-one shillings a week for single men, and 28s. a week for married men; the work to be let out on piece the same as last year. 393. In letting piece-work do you fix the rate so as to enable an ordinary labourer to earn 21s. a week, working eight hours a day ? —Those are my instructions. 394. Then if you employ men who are not accustomed to pick or shovel or heavy manual labour, what amount would you expect them to earn ? —For about the first month they would not earn above one-half of that amount. 395. I presume the rate given will not allow even able-bodied workmen to make very high wages ?—■ No. lam not quite clear about that myself. I have not received sufficiently definite instructions. At present lam trying to work so that the above-stated rate of wages shall be the limit. I have got no instructions as to the men working longer than eight hours a day. The men will not work more than eight hours a day if 28s. per week be their limit of wages. 396. Do I understand you to mean that they would get 28s. a week apart from the amount of work they did? —The men say that they were told so in Christchurch: I say, No; they must have work done at a certain rate per yard, not to exceed 28s. and 21s. respectively. 397. Mr. Clark.] Can you give the Commission an estimate of the cost of the 8 miles extension from Waikari across the Hurunui River, including the bridge ? —No ; I have never estimated it. 398. In mentioning 12 miles as the distance from the bridge to the centre of the Amuri District do you refer to the present bridge or to the proposed railway bridge ? —I estimate the distance from the proposed railway bridge. 399. What is the distance between the proposed railway bridge and the present bridge? —I think it is 4 or 5 miles. 399a. Would the place where it is proposed to cross with the railway bridge be the most advantageous for opening up the country on the other side of the Hurunui r —Hardly the most advantageous place for opening up the country. It would be the best spot for bridging the river. 400. Mr. Wright.] You told us that you are not able to give an estimate of the cost of the 8 miles extension, including the bridge: can you give an approximate estimate of the cost of the 8 miles without the bridge ? —No, not very well; because the country up here in the Waitohi is very swampy. It would require some consideration before giving an estimate. 401. Do you think it would exceed £3,000 per mile ? —I think it would. 402. Would it exceed £4,000 ?—-I should think it would amount to about £4,000. 403. If the line were brought near to the present road bridge, do you not think that would give reasonable access for the Amuri District to the railway station on the south bank of the river ?—Yes, I suppose it would. 404. And would it not be a more central point for the Amuri Plain than the proposed crossing 4t miles higher up ? —Yes, it would, to a larger proportion of the runholdors.
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Balcltjtha, "Wednesday, 31st Maech, 1880. Captain Robeet Andeew sworn and examined. 405. The Chairman.'] You are, I believe, a resident of the neighbourhood of Catlin's Eiver ?—ies. 406. Have you been resident there for any length of time ? —Five years. 407. Are you well acquainted with the country in that neighbourhood?—l am ; I have had considerable experience of it. 408. I believe you are engaged in the sawmilling business at Catlin's River ? —Yes. 409. Can you tell the Commission how you at present dispose of your timber ? —At the present time my principal outlet is to the north, as far as Lyttelton. 410. What means of transport have you from the mill ?—Water communication. 411. Can you tell the Commission what is the rate of freight which yon usually pay from here to Dunedin ? —The present rate is 3s. per 100 superficial feet. 412. In the event of the proposed line from Invertiel to Catlin's River being constructed, do you consider that you could transport your timber more advantageously?—Yes; a great deal more so. 413. And therefore you would probably increase the production of your mill ? —Yes. It would be increased considerably, and other mills would also probably be established. 414. Can you give an idea of the area of bush that would be served by the proposed line to Catlin's Eiver? —There is a large extent of country, but I would not like to venture an opinion so far as the acreage is concerned. 415. I mean as to the available bush land ?—There are a good number of square miles. The railway would tap the bush before it reached Catlin's proper. 416. What is the character of the bush where your mill is situate?—About two-thirds red pine, and the remaining third a mixture of totara and black pine. 417. Then you consider that the production of timber would be practically unlimited if the railway were constructed ?—Yes. 418. Mr. Beid.] You say you could not give an estimate of the acreage of land that would be opened up ? —No, I cannot. It is of very large extent. 419. Do you not know the number of miles through which the line would pass ?—From Glenoamaru to Owake there are about 5 miles of bush through which the railway wrould go. 420. What would be the extent of that bush on each side of the line?—On the east side there would be about 8 miles, and on the west side about 4 miles. 421. That would be 60 square miles ? —Yes ; before you get to Catlin's River Bush proper. The quality of the timber there is about one-half black pine and totara. 422. Is the timber generally sound and good?—Yes; it is a very good class of timber. 423. Supposing this lino were carried through, what would it cost you to convey the timber by rail from Catlin's Eiver to Dunedin ?—About 2s. or 2s. 2d. per 100 feet. 424. Would you be able to supply timber to Balclutha and the surrounding district at a lower rate than it can be supplied from the Blue Mountains ?—Yes. The principal supply of timber is now obtained from Invercargill, owing to the existence of railway communication. 425. What does it cost to bring the timber from Invercargill to Balclutha?—Three shillings per 100 feet. 426. At what rate could you supply it from your mill ? —At about Is. Bd. per 100 feet. The freight by water is handicapped by jetty dues of 4d. per 100 feet; and then the cartage involves an extra cost of 3d. per 100 feet. 427. Is the quality of the timber you could supply better than can be supplied from the Blue Mountain Ranges? —The quality of the timber supplied from that place is not equal to that which we could supply. The Blue Mountain timber is inferior in quality to that which comes from Invercargill. 428. Mr. Olark.~] Can you form any estimate of the weekly quantity of timber which you could send along the line if made? —According to the present returns there would be between 80,000 and 100,000 feet of timber per week from the Catlin's Eiver District. 429. Mr. Wright.'] Can you give an approximate estimate of the quantity of open land beyond Catlin's River? —There would be about 15,000 acres in the Tautuku Valley. 430. What population have you at Catlin's River?—ln December last the population was 845. 431. How are they principally employed ?—There are a large number of settlers ; but the majority of the population are employed at the mills. 432. Does the charge of 3s. per 100 feet for water carriage extend beyond Dunedin ? —No. 433. What is the rate to Oamaru?—Three shillings and threepence. 434. And to Lyttelton?—To Timaru and Lyttelton, 3s. (sd. 435. Would the extension of the railway from Catlin's Eiver to the Mataura pass through the open country you have mentioned ?—Yes. 436. On what terms is this bush leased by Government to the present mill-owners ? —Up to the present time we have paid £1 per acre for three years, with the right to cut all timber. New regulations are to come into force on the Ist May, similar to those at present in existence in Southland. I believe it is a royalty of 3d. per 100 feet. 437. Mr. BeicL] What is the quality of the soil on this bush land after the timber is cleared?— The most part of it is very good. It is chiefly a vegetable soil, varying from nine inches to three feet in depth. 438. Have any crops been grown there ? —Yes ; I have grown oats on my freehold for the last three years. 439. What kind of yield did you have ? —lt was for feed, and it was a very fair crop. 440. Then there is no doubt that the land, when cleared, will grow cereal crops ? —Yes, it will grow cereal crops well. 441. The Chairman.'] Is there anything further which you would wish to state for the information of the Commission? —I may state that there will be some 10,000 acres of land in Mr. Brough's run thrown ©pen in about six months hence. The balance of the run —20,000 acres- is to be thrown open twelve months later. About 10,000 acres is first-class agricultural land, and the remainder is good pastoral land.
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442. Mr. Wright.'] On what side of the line of railway is that land situated ?—On the west side. 443. And how far distant? —About 5 miles from the proposed extension to Catlin's Biver. 444. That is not bush land ? —No ; it is all clear land. 445. If the railway to Catlin's River were not constructed what outlet would there be for that district?—The settlers would have to ship the produce at Catlin's Eiver and convey it to Dunedin, as they do at present. Last year about 6,000 bags of oats from the Owake Plat were conveyed by water to Dunedin. 446. Mr. Clark.} Do you consider that the land would be readily taken up ?—Yes; I believe it would be readily taken up if thrown open on the deferred-payment system. 447. And therefore add very considerably to the population of that district?—Tes. 448. Mr. Wright.] "What sized blocks do you think would be most readily taken up ?—Blocks of from 100 to 200 acres in extent. With regard to coal, I wish to state that there is at the present time every indication of a payable seam being found. We have got the brown lignite close to the surface. lam at present trying to develop it. Samples of the coal obtained close to the surface were sent to Professor Black twelve months ago, who, after carefully analyzing it, pronounced it to be very good coal. Sixteen years ago Dr. Hector, after having camped at Catlin's Eiver for two or three months, told me in conversation that, from the specimens of coal he had seen, and the general formation of the country, when coal was found south of the Clutha between the Nuggets and Mataura, it would be a good description of coal. Mr. William Hat sworn and examined. 449. The Chairman.] You are a resident at South Molyneux ? —Yes. 450. You occupy land at South Molyneux ?—Yes. 451. Are you well acquainted with the country about Catlin's Eiver? —Yes, I know all the country about Catlin's Eiver. 452. Can you give any idea of the extent of open country which would be served by the proposed line of railway from Invertiel to Catlin's Eiver? —I could not say the exact extent. It is a large extent of country. The distance from Invertiel to Catlin's Eiver would be 16 or IS miles of open country. There would be 4or 5 miles of bush land intervening. 453. Is the open country that would be served by the line mainly Crown land, or has it been purchased from the Crown ? —The open country which the line would traverse is all sold. 454. Can you speak as to the quality of the land generally ? —lt is good land for growing oats. 455. Would it raise wheat crops to advantage ? —Part of it would grow wheat. 456. Do you consider that the construction of this line would lead to the cultivation of any considerable extent of additional country ? —Yes, there is a good deal of country above the proposed line, in the Owake Valley, which is at present held under lease. It is good country for farming purposes. 457. You refer to land which is at present only used for pastoral purposes ? —-Yes. 458. Is there at present any extent of cultivation in the neighbourhood of Catlin's Eiver ?—-Yes ; most of the country on each side of the proposed line is now under cultivation. 459. Can you state how the produce of the district is mostly disposed of at present ? —The only means of exporting it is by the way of Waitepeka. 460. Can you state what distance the produce has to be carted to the station you mention? —Some of it would be carted twenty miles from the Ahuriri to the Waitepeka Station. 461. Mr. Wright.] Is the portion of the country that would be traversed by the proposed line subject to flooding by the Molyneux Eiver ? —Yes, sometimes. There has recently been a very heavy flood. 462. For how many miles along the line of railway would the country be flooded ?—About a mile or a mile and a half; but the recent flood was unusually severe. 463. Mr. Clark.} How long ago is it since the same ground was covered by floods? —I do not remember ever seeing such a heavy flood as the one referred to, and I have resided thirty-one years in this part of the country. The flood of 1868 was not to be compared with the recent flood. 464. Mr. Beid.] Would there be any other traffic besides grain and timber for this line were it constructed ?-^None that I am aware of. 465. No considerable quantity of wool ? —The traffic of wool would be trifling. 466. Pat stock ? —There would be fat stock. People grow cattle more than sheep. 467. Any coal ?—There has been no coal found on that side yet. 468. Is the leasehold land you refer to as being likely to be cultivated held under lease from the Crown ?—Yes. 469. You consider that land fit for cultivation ?—Yes; there is very good land there. 470. Can you give any idea of the extent of it ? —The vallev runs out to Clinton. 471. Mr. Wright.] Do you consider that there are good metal roads through the district? —There is one good metal road—the Port Molyneux Eoad. 472. Was that road made by the Otago Provincial Government ? —Yes.
Tapanui, Thitesday, Ist Apeii, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. N. McMillen (Mayor), ~W. Quinn, D. McKellar, J. McParlane, E. 11. Eisher, A. McGregor, B. Washer, C. Hawson, J. Rodger, J. Meir, and Dr. Douglas, waited upon the Commission. 473. Mr, Noble Mo3fillen, Mayor, made the following statement: The deputation have waited upon the Commission with, the view of bringing before them the question of the Tapanui Railway, which we wish to see constructed as originally intended. The line has been diverted from the township ; but we are still under the impression that the branch line may yot be constructed through this township, as promised by the Government. The line was first surveyed into the town, but subsequently the surveyors received instructions to survey the line some distance from the town, and strike ofl' to a 4—E. 3.
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place called Kelso, a new township, which is partly submerged when there is a rise in the river. Kelso is not likely to become a settled township, whereas Tapanui is a rising township, and the inhabitants have spent a great deal of money in buildings and other improvements on the understanding that the branch line would be carried through it. We wish the Government to extend the line by McKellar's Plain, instead of continuing it by Swift Creek. There are only a few settlers on the western side of the proposed line of railway, and there are a great many residing at McKellar's Mat. If there was an extension of the line from Kelso fo Waikaka, it would serve the settlers at Greenvale equally as well as the line now being surveyed, and at the same time be of benefit to the Tapanui Township, which would be intersected by it. "We have been advocating the construction of the Tapanui Railway for the last seven or eight years. When Mr. Stout, a member of the late Ministry, visited this district, he promised that a branch line would be surveyed into Tapanui from the main line. No such surveyhas yet been made. The present Tapanui Station is about a mile and a quarter from the township. 474. Mr. John McFarlane made the following statement: When the agitation for the construction of the Tapanui branch line was first commenced, there was no township at Kelso, and no settlement on the deferred-payment system in existence. When there was some prospect of such a settlement, the people of Glcnkenich and Greenvale used their influence to get the line formed to Kelso, instead of to Tapanui. On the strength of Mr. Stout's promise, a good many persons expended money in improving their town properties. About that time property rose considerably in value. The agitation was going on for a considerable time before any idea was entertained that the line would be diverted from the Tapanui Township. Kelso is a Government township, but there are no settlers residing there. 475. Mr. David McKellar made the following statement : Many persons bought property in this township at good prices under the impression that the branch line, as originally proposed, was going to be carried out. I heard Mr. Macandrew, Mr. Stout, and Mr. Ballance give a distinct pledge-that the railway should be taken into Tapanui; and we look to the Government to carry out that pledge. The line now proposed to be carried out goes about a mile and a quarter from this township to Kelso, and up through one side of the agricultural plain, leaving out about three-fourths of the agricultural land on the east side, which I consider very unfair to the district. There is a much larger population settled on the east side of the district. My own property, consisting of 14,000 acres of agricultural land, is being cut up into seventy-two farms, and a very large population could be settled on that side of the district. We consider that the railway should go through the centre of the district. I think it is a mistake to suppose that the present surveyed line will be the one ultimately fixed upon. I heard Mr. Blair state that different routes would be surveyed, and when that is done I think the line will be altered. I believe Mr. Blair will see the necessity of carrying the line through the centre of the district. The line is now diverted from Tapanui vid Kelso, and goes up the western portion of the agricultural plain. If the line were taken through the centre of the plain, and through Tapanui, the distance would be about the same, and it would benefit a very much larger number of settlers. There are no impediments in the wav of its construction. The construction of the proposed line would not extend beyond Kelso. The Tapanui-Kelso Section, already constructed, would serve as part of the line proposed to be carried on to Waikaka, and from thence to the Gore line. Tapanui is one of the most thriving inland townships in the colony, exclusive of digging townships; and I am not aware of any township that possesses more natural advantages. The people here have been badly treated in being cut off from railway communication. 476. Mr. W. Quinn made the following statement: Having been connected with the Tapanui Railway movement from its first commencement, I may state that the Government were asked to make the branch line to Tapanui, and a committee was formed for the purpose of securing that object. After repeated efforts the committee, through the member for the district, Mr. Bastings, induced the Government to consent to construct the Tapanui line. It was placed in the schedule of lines to be constructed, and a sum of money voted. No mention was ever made of a line to Kelso. Tenders were called for the construction of the Tapanui-Waipahi line. When the people here saw that there was a prospect of getting the line made to the centre of population they used their most strenuous efforts to get large blocks of land opened for settlement. Roads were made by the local bodies radiating to all parts of the district from the supposed station-site at Tapanui. When the first flying survey of the Tapanui line was made, a map was prepared with Mr. Blair's name attached, showing the line from Waipahi to Tapanui, thence to Roxburgh and the Beaumont; thus showing that it was the intention of the Government to make the line to Tapanui. Captain McKenzie had petitions prepared and sent to Mr. Macandrew on the subject, and repeatedly stated in public that he had secured a promise from the late Minister of Public Works to divert the line from Tapanui and take it to Kelso. The people here requested the Government to continue the line by the route originally proposed, and the Government promised that, as the main line was being taken past the township, a branch line should be constructed as near to the municipality as possible, with the view of extending it through the Crookston Plains. The Crookston Plains and the Heriot Hundred contain a much larger area of purely agricultural land than the district which the Kelso extension would tap, and also a much larger population. The people consider they arc entitled to some consideration, and they now ask the Government to construct the Tapanui branch line. We have had a distinct promise from the late Government that his line would be constructed, and we trust the matter will receive due consideration from the Commission. lam credibly informed that the Tapanui-Kelso extension, although only some 3 miles in length, will cost more to construct than all the rest of that particular line of railway. The people of Tapanui consider that a better route could have been chosen. 477. Mr. James liodgcrs made the following statement: The people of the Waikaka District are deeply interested in this matter. The land between Waikaka and Kelso is of very good quality, and it is generally believed that the line to Kelso would be a paying line ; and, if it is not made now, I have no doubt it will ultimately be constructed. There has been but little road-making carried on, and it would be a great saving of public money if the lino to Kelso were made before roads are undertaken. There is no road-material along that line until it reaches Waikaka. The roads made by the Provincial Government and the local bodies have lost their value in consequence of railroads having been made
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parallel with them. It costs a great deal of money to make roads through a country where there is no road-material, and to keep them in repair. The people consider that the line from Kelso to Waikaka should be at once commenced, as it will be of great benefit to them. The people of Tapanui would like a railway made through the township, passing through McKellar's Plain on to Roxburgh, and another branch via Kelso on to Logan's Plain, thence by way of Waikara to the Gore line. I am decidedly of opinion that the line from Kelso to Waikaka would bo a good paying line. 478. Mr. McKellar: 1 can corroborate the statement made by Mr. Eodgers, as I have known the district for over twenty years. lam perfectly satisfied that the line he advocates will pay. Laud has been sold in that part of the country at a higher rate than any other Government land in New Zealand. There has been nothing done in the way of making roads. The Government have obtained a few hundred thousand pounds from that part of the country, and I am not aware that they have expended £10,) in road-making in the whole district. lam perfectly convinced that railways will pay much better than roads. In America, where roads are required railways are constructed ; and I think we should follow that example in New Zealand.
Invebcaegill, Monday, sth Apitiri, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. Denniston, McNab, Dalrymple, "Wade, Lumsden, Mitchell, Murray, Turnbull, Finn, Bain, M.H.E., Shanks, M.H.E., and McCaughan, M.H.E., interviewed the Commission in reference to the Seaward Bush Railway. 479. Mr. George, Lumsden made the following statement: The object of the deputation is to bring under your notice the Seaward Bush Eailway, which was projected a few years ago. Preparatory steps were taken to have it carried out by the Provincial Government, who were satisfied as to the advantageous position of the line, and the benefit that would be derived from it. The project was considered by the Provincial Council during two sessions. On the first occasion it was not undertaken through funds not being available to have the line carried out. In the next session,.of 1875, it was adopted as one of the projected lines of the Government. In that session, when the western railways were proposed, this particular line was adopted by the Provincial Council. Tenders were invited for the work, but those received were rather above the estimated cost. Tenders were again called for, and it was agreed to accept one of the tenders sent in. By this time the complications connected with the abolition of the provinces occurred, and the transactions of the Provincial Government were carefully scrutinized by the Colonial Government, Sir Julius Vogel being Treasurer at the time. The Provincial Government submitted to the General Government in 1875 all their projects, with a statement of their ways and means for carrying them out. The statement included the Seaward Bush Eailway, and showed how the funds were to be made available. It was contemplated to have more extensive land gales than had taken place during the previous year. The Colonial Government would not agree to the expenditure proposed by the Provincial Council, aud the result was that the undertaking had to be put aside. When the abolition of the provinces took place, this proposed line, with many other works, was submitted to the General Government as one of the provincial liabilities. A large portion of the Seaward Bush land was taken up by saw-mill owners, and by others as suburban allotments or village settlements. A large quantity of it was sold at very high prices, the purchasers believing that the General Government would carry out this railway work as originally intended. The purchasers will look upon it as a grievance if the line is not carried out. The Provincial Government and the settlers were quite satisfied as to the economic advantages of the line. I have not heard anything said against the wisdom of carrying out this line. The General Government stated that the claims for railways were so numerous that they could not accept them all. During last session and the previous session Parliament recognized the value of this line so far that a reserve of 3 miles on each side of the line was made to meet the expense of carrying out (he line. It is excellent forest land, and a splendid country for settlement. I have no doubt it would be readily settled upon if the line were carried out. The amount of the tender accepted by the Provincial Government was very small —about £2-1,000 or £25,000, although I am not certain as to the exact amount —for the first section of the line, extending 11 miles. It is very much to be regretted that the General Government had not the line carried out. The land I referred to as having been sold is situated at this end of the line, and beyond that is the reserve. The land sold does not extend beyond a mile and a half from the boundaries of the town. Evidence can be given before the Commission with reference to the economic value of the line. 480. The Chairman : Was the land sold after the railway had been determined upon by the Provincial Government —after the survey had been made and a provisional tender accepted. 481. Mr. Lumsden : The land was sold after the line was projected by the Government, and tenders invited. The line had been put in the schedule of works recommended to be carried out by the Provincial Council. It was believed that the line would be carried out, and consequently people gave much larger prices for the land. The Provincial Government was well represented in the Assembly in the session of .1876. Mr. Maeandrew urged the Government to accept one of the tenders sent in, with the view of getting the General Government to adopt the line as one of the provincial liabilities, and keeping good faith with the people who desired to settle in that part of the country. The advertisement inviting tenders was dated January, 1870. 482. Mr. Bain : I produce a plan of the sections of land offered for sale, and which was used at the time of sale. It is dated February, 1876. This shows that tenders for the construction of this railway had been invited before the land was sold. There can be no doubt that the construction of the railway was held out as an inducement to purchasers of sections in the Seaward Bush Township, and in many cases caused very high prices to be paid for some of the sections. Mr. Duncan McArthuk, Inspector of Forests, sworn and examined. 483. The Chairman.] How long have you held the office of Inspector of Forests ?—Since 1872. 484. Then you have had a good opportunity of seeing the character of the land through which this proposed line will pass ? —Yes, I have gone through, the forest repeatedly, and especially in reference
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to a report which I was requested to furnish to the Provincial Government. I have with me a copy of that report, dated the 31st October, 1873; and this report goes pretty fully into the whole question as to the value of the forest and the probability of settlement in tho Seaward Bush. I have merely to say that I have not altered any favourable opinion which I expressed in this report. I produce a letter to the Commission covering the report I furnished to the Provincial Government, and to which I have just referred. Report re Seaward Bush Railway. Having carefully considered the proposal submitted by Government to the Waste Lands Board in reference to the construction of a railway through Seaward Bush, I have no hesitation in recommending that such should be done with the least possible delay, and, for the following among other reasons, am of opinion the work should be undertaken by the Government: —■ 1. It would be batter that the Government should have the coutrol of all the provincial railways. 2. It will be seen from the annexed calculations that, at the present rates for saw-mill royalty and railway carriage, the net proceeds would amount to £202,000, after deducting one-fourth of the 20,000 feet per acre for swampy and thinly-timbered land, also cost of construction of railway and working expenses. 3. At the rates proposed by the Company the net proceeds would amount to £9(37,000, after making similar deductions as above. 4. Any company having the absolute control of railway would be in a position to effectually monopolize the bush, directly and indirectly. 5. There would also be constant difficulties in working the railwavs from the point of junction with the Bluff line, in consequence of there being two managements in operation, acting independently of each other. 6. It is desirable that the Government should have the entire control of this bush, not only for the above reasons, revenue included, but also for settlement purposes. 7. The locality has peculiar advantages for settlement, being near Invercargill, and on the lines of railway to Bluff, Mataura, and Winton-Kingston. 8. This is perhaps the most suitable district in the province for giving free grants of land to poor but morally well-conditioned families, having from half a dozen to a dozen members each, the parents and little ones at home, and the elder members going to service. There is an abundant supply of firewood and fencing left by the saw-mills, and timber for house-building, at hand ; and the soil, being good, is easily put under potatoes and other vegetables, &c. The district will ultimately maintain a very large population. Seaward Bush contains 48,000 acres, which at 20,000 feet per acre amounts to 960,000,000 feet, which, at 2s. 6d. per 1,000 £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. feet, the present royalty, amounts to 120,000 0 0 Carriage to Bluff at present rate —viz., ss. per 1,000 feet for 20 miles ... 240,000 0 0 ■ 360,000 0 0 Deduct a quarter for swamp and inferior timber ... ... ... 90,000 0 0 Deduct cost of railway, 20 miles at £2,000 40,000 0 0 Deduct working expenses, 14 years at £2,000 per'annum ... ... 28,000 0 0 —— 158,000 0 0 Eates proposed by the Company— 202,000 0 0 960,000,000 feet, at 3s. 9d. royalty per 1,000 feet ... ... ... 180,000 0 0 Carriage, same number of miles as above, at l|d. per 100 feet per mile ... 1,200,000 0 0 1,380,000 0 0 Deduct a quarter for swamp, &c, as above 345,000 0 0 Deduct cost of railway „ ... 40,000 0 0 Deduct working expenses ~ ... 28,000 O 0 413,000 0 0 — 967,000 0 0 Balance in favour of Company, £765,000. I). McAbthur, Invercargill, 21st October, 1873. Inspector of Southland Forests. Any observations I have to make in addition to what I have stated in this report are altogether in favour of the railway. 1 would not presume to point out the particular direction this line should take, except that I think it should cut the bush in two, so to speak. I may mention that I believe this is the only district in the colony where there is a system of royalty and systematic management of the forests, and hence the mode of ascertaining the value of the forests from existing operations. 485. Mr. Clark.] What is your estimated value of the reserves set aside for the purpose of paying for the construction of this railway ?—I was not aware until to-day of the extent of those reserves. I think it is a mistake altogether to cut up the forests into reserves. It interferes, and will decidedly interfere, with the proper and regular management and utilization of the forests. lam not objecting to the setting-aside of reserves, but I think it would be better if they were set aside in open lands, where they would not interfere with the timber industry. The amount paid in wages by the sawmillers of Southland is upwards of £70,000 a year. Owing to the extent of this industry the Southland District has been in a state of prosperity that no other part of the colony has enjoyed. The reserves might be assessed at the same value as the rest of the forests. They could be valued by ascertaining the acreage and allowing 15,000 superficial feet of timber per acre.
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486. What would be the value of the laud itself, as it stands at present?—lt is difficult to give an estimate. lam satisfied, from what I know, that if all the heavy timber were removed, the land would bring more than it would with the timber on it. Seeing that the land is to be occupied by small settlers, the sawmiller cannot deal with them. One man will sell the timber on his small section, and the next one will not; therefore the timber will remain there until its natural death. 487. Therefore, in your opinion, the land would be more valuable per acre if the heavy timber were gone ?—Undoubtedly. 1 should say that if the heavy timber were gone, it would bring £4 or £5 an acre. 488. That is, if the heavy timber were removed?—l say it would bring £4 an acre now along the intended line of railway. It would depend entirely who the purchasers were. If a man bought a thousand acres of it ho would not require to allow the timber to go to natural decay; but if a poor man buys only three or four acres, he is helpless. He can only allow it to die a natural death, or cut it down and burn it. That labour would be saved for him if a saw-mill passed through it first. Iu any case, along the whole line of railway the land would bring £4 or £5 an acre. 489. Mr. Wright.] Can you inform the Commission what is the total number of saw-mills in this district ? —There are twenty-three saw-mills on Crown lands. 490. How many of these are at work at present ? —There are generally four or five different sawmills out of work while undergoing repair. 491. I wish you to say how many are absolutely at work?—There are twenty at work at this moment. . 492. In the Seaward Bush ? —No ; I mean in the district. The are eight saw-mills in the Seaward 493. Can you say how many saw-mills in the Seaward Bush are now lying idle? —Only one that I am aware of. That is a very large saw-mill, and one of the most important we have. It is just about ready to start operations again. It has been removed from one locality to another, and I believe from what I have heard that the owner of this saw-mill has been put to considerable difficulty in consequence of one of those sections which have been set apart for municipal purposes. 491. At what price is timber sold at the mill?—There is but little timber sold at the mill. It is generally sold in Dimedin, Christchurch, and Oamaru. At the mill it would not be sold on an average for less than Bs. per 100 feet, or £4 per 1,000 feet. The sawmilling industry in this district gives employment to about 550 men. 495. You stated that the land would be more valuable if the timber were taken off it ? —lt depends entirely whether the land is purchased in large or small areas. 496. In stating that it would be more valuable with the timber off it, I conclude you consider that the special value of the forest would be as a field for small settlements? —Yes. 497. Is there any area of open land in the neighbourhood of Invercargill available for small settlements ? —None with the same advantages that this forest has. Small settlers in this forest would have the important advantages of firewood for the gathering and shelter for their little houses, with good soil put into a state of preparation by the clearing-off of the trees. 498. Colonel Pearee.] What kind of timber do you got in the Seaward Bush ?—The principal timber is black pine, totara, red pine, and birch. 499. Iu looking over your figures, I see you estimate the receipts by the railway at £1,200,000 for the carriage of sawn timber for fourteen years. You calculate that at l|d. per 100 feet per mile? Yes; that was the tender made by the company which proposed to construct the railway. 500. Do you anticipate that the present railway would be able to charge such a rate as that ? —No ; but the proposed company wanted to take leave to'do that. If that company got what they wanted, they would have monopolized the bush. 501. In looking over your figures I notice that you estimate the receipts of the railway from timber at five times as much as the cost of the railway. How do you account for that ?—What I stated there is the amount the company were to have leave to charge others, and that refers to a railway especially in a bush over which they would have entire control. They would prevent any other sawmillers'from having anything to do with the bush. This is not what I recommend should be done, but I am stating what that company would have had authority to do under the proposed fourteen years' lease. 502. Then this is not intended in any sense to guide the Commission as to what the receipts of the railway would be ? —lt is only intended to show the comparison then existing and the rates intended to be adopted by this company. 503. I need only point out that no timber in the world could pay such a rate as that? —I wished to show that, because it would prevent any one else participating in the forest. 504. Mr. Wright.'] Are you aware how far the terminus of the 11 miles of proposed railway would be distant from the existing Invercargill and Dunedin line of railway?—Between 5 and 6 miles. There are tramways going from the Dunedin Railway into the bush now, and they are in some cases 8 and 4 miles long. The bulk of the timber now going from here in the direction of Dunedin goes by the main lino of railway. 505. Then, in point of fact, the existing tramways from the Dunedin-Invercargill line of railway tap the district that would be served by this projected line ?—They tap it in part, but at very great inconvenience and expense. The Dunedin-lnveroargill Eailway would not in the slightest degree have any good effect in the settlement of population iu this district. The proposed railway would require to be looked at as something in the future as well as the present. This piece of country would maintain a very large population indeed, and the people settled there would naturally take the railway passing through the bush. Ido not think the bush will be settled unless it is opened by this proposed railway. There are people nestling in it now, but only at the edge of the forest. 50G. Mr. Clark.] Do you consider that, as far as the timber trade is concerned, the present line to Dunedin serves the purpose? —It only serves the purpose iu part. Towards the east end of the bush it does; but it has still to come down this way in order to be shipped at Invercargill and the Bluff. Had it not been for the heavy charges at the Bluff end of the railway, the whole of the timber trade would go by water.
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507. Is not a portion of the timber trade of that bush served by the Bluff line of railway?—The west end, towards the estuary, is, but not the east end, by any means. 508. Then, as regards the settlement of this bush land by small settlers, have you not given evidence that you consider the bush unsuited at the present time for settlement ? —Not that I am aware of. I stated that if it was sold for virgin bush it would not bring as much money per acre as it would with the heavy timber removed. 509. Then I infer that the better course, in order to make the most of the forest, would be to work it by saw-mills in the first instance, until the heavy timber is removed, and then at some future time open it up and sell it in small lots to suit small settlers ?—That is exactly what my report tends to. But there are large areas continually coming into a state of preparation for cutting up. As that takes place from time to time, it would be better to survey the land and sell it in small areas. 510. Mr. Wright.'] Will you state what are the heavy charges at the Bluff? —I cannot; but there are several charges, and they cause this deviation in the trade. Mr. Alexander McNab, clerk, Invercargill Laud Office, sworn and examined. 511. The Chairman.'] Tou know from the plans the direction in which the Seaward Bush Railway is proposed to be taken ?—Yes. 512. Can you give a general idea of the value of the land in that neighbourhood ? —£s an acre is the upset price, but it fetches more than that at sale. 513. In what sized sections has it been put up?—The Seaward Bush Township was put up in five-acre sections. That is where the railway is proposed to be constructed. 514. Has any more of the land been put up for sale by auction? —No. 515. Has it been surveyed into sections for sale ? —No ; not outside of the township. Outside of the township are sawmill areas and municipal endowments. 5L6. When you spoke of land being put up at the upset price of £5 per acre, you referred to the township only ? —Yes. 517. Then the other part of the forest has not been surveyed into rural or suburban sections ? —No. 518. And no valuation has been put upon it?—No. 519. Then the information you can give the Commission is confined to the township ?—Yes. 520. Can you say what price those sections brought for the most part when put up to auction?— The upset price of Section 42 was £12 10s., and it brought £28. That is £10 an acre. Section 41 also brought double the upset price, £11 10s. The date of that sale was 20th August, 1878. 521. Was that a sale by auction ? —Yes. 522. Did any sale take place in the early part of 1876 ? —ln May, 1876, the first sale was held. 523. Was tho upset price the same—namely, £5 an acre ? —Yes. 524. Did the sections sold bring an advance on that price ? —Yes, considerably. The upset price of the first section was fixed at £6 55., but it sold at £15. The upset price of the second section was £16 45., but it sold at £51. 525. Mr. Clark.] I should like to know what, in your opinion, gave that land such a comparatively high value ?—I should think that people bought on the faith of the railway being constructed ; and, of course, it is close to town. 526. What is the distance from town ?—Where the township commences it is 2 or 1\ miles from the centre of Invercargill. 527. Do you consider that—irrespective of the railway —contiguity to the Town of Invercargill, the quality of the soil, and the timber on the land, do not make the land worth the prices paid for it ? ■ —I could not say that exactly. Tho railway was a consideration with a good many people who bought out there. Land adjacent to Invercargill, where there is no railway, fetches high prices sometimes. 528. Land of the same quality and similarly situated to this ? —Yes. 529. Would such land bring prices somewhat similar to what this land sold at at these two sales ? —Hardly so high, I think, because we have no land so close as that with a railway to it, so that I cannot form an opinion. 530. It is not a question of a railway. Have you any land unsold within the same distance which would fetch about the same price, irrespective of the proposed railway?—No. 531. Have ) rou attempted to put into money the increased price which this land brought on account of the proppsed railway ? —I should think it brought double what it would have brought without the railway. 532. Then, without the railway, you consider the upset price was full value for the land ? —Yes. Ido not think that is so now, but at the time it was sold the upset price was plenty for it. In 1876, at the time of the first sale, it was rather a high figure. 533. Mr. Wright.] What is the extreme distance of any of this land in Seaward Bush which was sold in May, 1876, and subsequently? —One mile and thirty chains. 531. What was tho total quantity sold?—I can only make a rough guess. Averaging it at four acres apiece, about 160 acres were sold. Mr. Alexander McNah, farmer at Chalton, sworn and examined. 535. The Chairman.] Did you buy some land in the Township of Seaward Bush ? —Yes. 536. On what date?—l think it was 29th May, 1876. 537. What quantity did you buy ?—About 22-J acres. 538. What price per acre did you give? —£174 for 22-£- acres. 539. Did vou consider you were giving a high price for ths land? —Certainly. I would not have bought the land at all if I had not thought the railway would be made ; otherwise I would not have tas a gift. It would not pay me to clear oft' the bush. 540. Then you consider that the land, although near the Town of Invercargill, and good land, would nevertheless not be worth the price you gave for it unless the railway was made ? —Yes.
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541. Supposing there had been no railway in prospecb, how much an acre do you think that land would be worth ?■ —I cannot say. To mo it would be worth nothing. 542. JUr. Wright] Do you think it probable that the railway authorities would have given a station within a mile of the present Invercargill Station ? —No, I do not; but there might be a siding at the township. 543. Then the value you attached to the construction of the railway was contingent upon your obtaining a siding ?—Yes. Mr. Petee Dalbymple, farmer, sworn and examined. 544. The Chairman.'] Are you well acquainted with the land in the Seaward Bush ? —Tes ; I have been acquainted with it for more than twenty years. 545. What do you think is the value of that land per acre, taking it as a whole ? —I believe the 17,000 acres laid off for the proposed railway is well worth £0 per acre. If I had it I would not sell it for £6 an acre. I should not be afraid to raise money to give that much for it if I went into such a speculation, provided the railway is made. 546. Supposing the project of making the railway were abandoned altogether, what would the land he worth nowr ? —I would have nothing to do with it unless I was a sawiniller. I would not go into the speculation without the railway. 547. But is it very far from a railway now? Is there not a railway within a very few miles of it at present ? —There is the Eastern District Eailway and the Bluff line of railway not very far off, but they have no connection with this line whatever. 548. How near do you think the railway must be in order for certain land to be connected with it ?■—ln open land as far as a man can drive a team in two hours and a half. 549. Do you think there ought to he railways every 5 miles in order to serve the country properly ?—I do not. 550. "What distance apart do you think the railways ought to be ?—I have nothing to do with that. I speak of this as a breach of confidence and a promise between parties here. 551. Do you consider that there was an engagement on the part of the Government? —Yes; there was a compact entered into. If I had done as a landholder what .the Government have done, they would have me on the roads for six months or six years. It was simply obtaining money under false pretences. I have no special interest in this matter, but only a general interest. 552. Mr. ClarJc.] If the land is worth £6 an acre with a railway, or the prospect of a railway, what would the land be worth if put up to-morrow without any prospect of a railway ? —Twenty-five shillings an acre, I should say ; 1 do not think it would bring sixpence more. 553. But if you put a railway through it it; will immediately rise to £6 ?—Yes, I am firmly of that opinion. 554. In estimating the value of the land at present at 255. per acre, is that altogether irrespective of the value of the timber on the land ? —I cannot go into the value of the timber on the land. I speak only of the value of it provided you construct a railway through it. I believe it would then "bring £G an acre. 555. Then its present value of 255. per acre is for agricultural purposes ? —I cannot tell you what purposes it would be put to. 556. Then you can form no idea whatever of the value of the land for timber ? —No, it is not in my trade. Mr. James Muekat, contractor, sworn and examined. 557. The Chairman.'] "Were tenders called for by the Provincial Government of Otago, for the Seaward Bush line of railway ? —Yes. 558. I understand you sent in a tender for that work ?—Yes. 559. "Will you be good enough to state what was the length of the section for which you tendered, and whether the tender was for formation only, and also for what sum you offered to execute the work ? —The exact length was 11 miles 8 chains. It was for formation and permanent way. The amount of my tender was £16,152 4s. 2-|d. 500. Mr. Wright.] Did that price include rails and sleepers ? —No, neither rails nor fastenings ; but all sleepers, bridges, and formation. There were two chains of trees to clear. 561. Then it did not include rails or station-buildings ? —No. Mr. George Lttmsden', Commissioner of the Waste Lands Board of Southland, sworn and examined. 562. The Chairman.] Are you acquainted with the reserves laid off in the Seaward Bush? —I know the fact that reserves exisb, and I know approximately their situation and the nature of the country. 503. Can you state what w 7ould be the probable value of that land at auction, apart from any question as to the construction of a railway ?—Unless opened up by a railway or road, the land is absolutely of no value excepting for sawmiliers. No settler could take up the land with advantage to himself, as he could not send his produce to market in the absence of a road or railway. 504. What would probably be the upset juice put by the Board upon this land, in the event of selling it by auction ?—The Waste Lands Board would not think of putting that land up to auction unless there was a prospect of opening it by road or railway. The whole of the Seaward Bush Block, comprising a very large area, has been open for sale for years, for £1 an acre, under the regulations, and no one thought of selecting it. Even when the price of land, under the Act of 1873, was raised to £2 an acre, the unsold land within the old Hundreds was still left at £1 an acre ; and, notwithstanding that the Seaward Bush was in that position, a considerable number of the surveyed sect/ions adjacent to this proposed line of railway are still unselected. Recently they have been included in. the three-mile reserve contiguous to the line.
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565. "Would not the land be productive of revenue by means of the royalty for timber ?—lt is now. It is producing a royalty at present. The sawmillers make it accessible for themselves by laying wooden tramways. One or two have small locomotives for running over the tramways, but they cannot be used for passenger traffic. 566. Is it not customary for sawmillers to make tramways for 6 or 8 miles to a railway or port of shipment, for the service of their own mills?—l believe some of the tramways in Seaward Bush extend to 4or 5 miles. They can only make such tramways when the bush is good. The sawmillers pay a small royalty of 3d. per 100 superficial feet; and when the bush is good they make it pay. For the settler, there is a considerable area of that land which has been exhausted of the best bush for sawmills, and the timber that remains is inferior. The whole of the Seaward Bush Township comprised country of that kind. Since people have lost the prospect of the railway line being constructed, none of that land has been sold. Of course a road would open up the bush the same as a railway; but any one travel sing the bush would see that a tramway, or light railway such as was proposed by the Provincial Government, could be more cheaply carried out than a road. 567. Mr. Wright.'] What revenue per acre is derived from the royalty on timber?—We know nothing whatever about the amount per acre. We only know from the Inspector of Forests, monthly reports that a certain amount has accrued from the royalty. No doubt the revenue per acre could be calculated from the probable amount of timber per acre. 568. It was stated by Mr. McArthur that 15,000 feet was a fair estimate of the amount of timber per acre :do you think that is a reasonable estimate ?• —I would not venture an opinion. 569. Can you say why the royalty is only 3d. per 100 feet in Southland, and Is. per 100 feet at Catliu's River ? Is that due to the superior quality of the bush at Catlin's River?- —I am not aware. It may be due to that. The bush in Southland is very irregular, and the sawmillers have much labour in connection with their operations. The trees are not so largo and productive as they are in Auckland. I believe that in some places in Southland there are large trees. Lands exhausted of their milltimber adjacent to Invercargill, in the Makarewa Bush, Waikiwi Bush, and Ototara Bush (across the estuary), have been put into the market during the last two or three years, and they have brought from £3 to £5, and on deferred payments £4 10s.—that is, in small sections within 7 or 8 miles of Invereargill. But, in the cases of the Waikiwi Bush and Makarewa Bush, the Northern Railway intersects the land, and has therefore made it accessible for settlers. In the case of the Waikiwi Bush, at the lower end the Riverton Road, which is a good one, goes in close to the land sold. If land of the same kind in Seaward Bush were made accessible, I have no doubt it would realize equal prices. 570. Mr. Clark.] Seeing that bush land denuded of heavy timber 7 or 8 miles from Invercargill brought from £3 to £5 an acre, what do you consider was the proportionate value, apart from the proposed railway, of the Seaward Bush Township which was sold in 1876 and 1878?—I hold that the high prices paid for that township were largely due to the fact that, apart from the railway, the land was contiguous to town, and handy for the working-men employed at the saw-mills. But the fact that the sales have stopped is, I think, explained by the fact that the people have lost faith in the prospect of the line being carried out, and do not purchase because the land is some distance from the town. 571. Then you consider that, while the land brought higher prices on account of the proposed railway, it was worth nearly the price it brought on account of its contiguity to town ?—I do not say it was worth the full price it brought. I think it sold at too high a price. The land which I have spoken of in my evidence is a greater distance from town than any of the land in the Seaward Bush Township. The Hon. Mr. William Wood, M.L.0., sworn and examined. 572. The Chairman.] Would you state what you know with reference to this proposed line of railway ? —ln the first place, I would like to say that, although this bush is within a comparatively short distance of the Town of Invercargill, you no sooner get into it than it becomes so dense as to be inaccessible unless a road is made through it. Many questions have been put to witnesses about the price of land. I wish to say that there has been an almost mysterious change in the price of land here during the last two years. I sold land for £1,000 two or three years ago which to-day would bring £8,000 or £9,000. I was present when the sale of the Seaward Bush Township took place, when Mr. McNab was a purchaser. I saw Mr. McNab with the lithographed plan in his hand when the auctioneer was selling, and I know that the auctioneer drew attention to the railway. He said, "This section is immediately adjoining the railway," and so on. I have no doubt that the purchasers were influenced very materially by the railway being shown on the lithographed plan, and their attention being called to it by the auctioneer. If the sale took place now, instead of at the time it did, I believe a still higher price would be given on account of the increased value of the land, and because the town is spreading, and the suburban lands in all directions ars fetching long prices. The main Dunedin line is several miles away from the bush. Six miles is a considerable impediment; and all the interior of the bush, which is the most valuable part of it, is altogether inaccessible without a railway running through the centre. Without a connecting link all the timber in the bush is of comparatively little value. All the land would acquire a greater value immediately, and would bo saleable immediately, if it wore known that a railway was going to be constructed. Even the royalty on timber might be increased, because it would be much cheaper for sawmillers to get it out. 573. Colonel fearce.] Is the Seaward Bush within the boundaries of any Road Board district ?—I do not know; but, even if it were, no Road Board would be able to cope with the difficulty of making roads through it. A railway would not cost half as much as a road, because, in. order to make a road, all the stumps would have to be cleared out. 574. Is the bush within a county boundary ?—Tes; within the boundaries of the County of Southland. 575. Then neither the county nor any Road Board is doing anything in the way of making a road through the bush? —No ; the little that has been done has been done by the sawmillers and settlers. The land is not rateable yet on account of its being Crown land, and it will remain Crown land for several years unless facilities are given for settlement by means of communication.
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5^G. Mr. Wright.'] If I understand you rightly, the purchasers of sections in the Seaward Bush Township could, owing to the increased price of land in the neighbourhood, resell their sections without loss ? —I do not know. Although prices have increased very much during that lime, Tam doubtful whether they could resell without loss, unless they knew that a railway was going to be constructed. If it was known that a railway was to be constructed, they could resell without loss. 577. Although they would not be entitled to a station? —Being a township, I daresay the purchasers look upon it as a matter of course that they would have a station there. I was not a purchaser myself, and have no interest personally iu this question. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. Brown, Miller, Mossa, and Mclntyre, waited upon the Commission in reference to the Forest Hill Tramway. Mr. Bain, M.H.R., introduced the deputation. 578. Mr. Broiun made the following statement: We wish to bring before the Commission the desirability of constructing the Forest Hill Tramway, and to show the route it will take. A large number of settlers are in favour of this tramway branching off at Wilson's Crossing, and taking a north-easterly direction towards the foot of Hokonui Hill, opening up a large area of flat land at present locked up. The route presents no engineering difficulties whatever, as the line would traverse flat country. The line will open up a large area of very valuable forest, and also an extensive tract of Government land. Another route has been proposed by the inhabitants of the, Township of Winton. There is also a proposal to branch off at Makarewa Junction; but the engineering difficulties would be much greater than on the line we propose. Undoubtedly the route by Wilson's Crossing would be most advantageous to the Mabel, Forest Hill, and Waimumu Districts, and would open up level country in the most direct manner. There is a verv large tract of rich alluvial land from Grove Bush right up to Waimumu at present uncultivated, and likely to remain so until opened up by means of railway communication. The grant was given by Parliament purposely to open up Crown land, and the line I have indicated at Wilson's Crossing would best accomplish that object. In some instances the line would enter upon private property. The freeholders are quite prepared to give the land required for the railway without compensation. The line might be taken along the district road to Grove Bush, and afterwards be taken along the best route. If the route were taken from Winton, it would not meet the views of the great bulk of the settlers. The line would open unsold land in the Forest Hill District; but the greater portion of it is peat morass. I mean the route via the Gap. Not less than between 15,000 to 20,000 acres of agricultural land would be rendered available by the construction of the line wepi'opose. Without this railway, the land is not likely to be cultivated. It is generally low-lying country. No road has ever been made by the Government, although a large area of land has been sold there. There is very little material for road-making in the district. The County Council have had the subject of this railway under consideration; but I am not aware that they have expressed any opinion as to carrying out the line in any particular direction. This line would be of great service to the Invercargill Waterworks Reserve, situated at Dunsdale. It would give the most direct approach to the Waterworks Reserve from Invercargill. From our proposed starting-point to the Waterworks Reserve the distance is 15 miles in a straight line. The tramway could be made almost in a straight line through most of this country. In all probability the line would be continued to the Mataura line, joining either at Gore or the Mataura. The line would open up a very large quantity of agricultural land, belonging to the New Zealand and Australian Land Company. It would open the Dunsdale Forest to the present timberless district act'oss the Mataura. There are considerably over a hundred settlers located in the district. They occupy farms varying in size from 100 to 2,000 acres. If the line were made it would render available stone and gravel for road-making. Five miles of the tramway w rould open the limestone range. The Commission met again at 3 o'clock. Mr. Thomas Aetiiuk, General Manager, Invercargill Section, sworn and examined. 579. Mr. Wright.'] Have you the traffic returns for the last four weeks, ending March ?—Yes ; I produce the last return, for the four weeks ending March. 580. This is not the return I wanted; it ends Bth February. The percentage of expenditure to revenue is rather heavy, on the Invercargill Section, as compared with others. Can you give any explanation as to why it should be heavier here than on the Dunedin Section ? —There are 200 miles under my control, and the lines traverse districts which are anything but populous. There is a great lack of population, and, consequently, a lack of traffic, when compared with the distance we have to travel. 581. Can you suggest any method by which the working might be economized ? —There is no method that I know of further than that being practised at the present time. I have practised every possible economy up to the present date. During the month ending February our traffic expenses were £11 13s. 4d. to earn £100, which I have no doubt you will admit is very low, and leaves a great margin for the other departments to work upon. It was for four weeks, and includes all workingexpenses with the exception of stores. 582. Then, assuming the general expenditure to be, say, 71 per cent, of the revenue, you have only expended 11 per cent. How r is the other 60 per cent, made up ? —I cannot answer that question. The other departments are not under my control. 583. Tou can state what other departments are included in the balance of the percentage ?—The locomotive, maintenance of way and works, and the stores departments. 584. In the 11 per cent, do you include station-masters and porters? —Yes, all those connected with the passengers and goods traffic department. 585. Including the expenses at your own office ? —Yes. 58G. What are the staple items of traffic on the section under your charge apart from the general merchandise ?—Sawn timber forms the greater part of it. 587. AVhat proportion would wool or grain bear to the sawn timber in the shape of revenue ?—I cannot give a definite reply without referring to returns. 5—E. 3.
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588. An approximation will do ?—Approximately, I should say about one-fifth. 589. And the grain ? —lt would be about one-fourth. 590. And the timber represents rather more than one-half the staple traffic ? —Yes. 591. Can you say what quantity of timber is usually carried as a truck-load ? —About 2,000 feet. 592. Or 4,000 feet on the double timber-trucks ?—Tes. The loads yary considerably, according to consignments forwarded. 593. Two thousand feet is a maximum load ?—Tes. 594. You are of course aware of the carriage rate for timber for long distances ?—One halfpenny per 100 superficial feet per mile up to 30 miles; over 30 miles, and not more than 75 miles, f.d.; more than 75 miles, id. 595. Do you think the charge of id. per mile per 100 feet is a sufficient price ?—lt is very lowindeed ; but at the present time I would be in favour of maintaining that rate until the timber trade has been fully established, otherwise the timber which we are carrying at the present time would go coastwise to northern ports. 59G. Assuming -§d. per 100 feet per mile to be a proper charge for the first 30 miles, and fd. for the next 45 miles, do you not think that the id. per 100 feet per mile represents an absolute loss on the haulage and working of the train ? —I am of opinion that id. clears the expenses connected with the carrying of the timber, but it cannot leave any great margin to work upon in the way of carrying out repairs. 597. Jf I understand you rightly, it simply pays the cost of haulage? —Yes. 598. Then, if 50 per cent, is taken as a fair proportion of expenditure to receipts on a payable railway, the carrying of timber at the cost of haulage would involve a loss of more than one-half the proper charge?—l could not answer the question without referring to the returns or going through the books. 599. It is not a question of books at all. In the Old Country 50 per cent, is considered a fair proportion of working expenses out of revenue. Therefore, if ycu are carrying timber for any distance at a bare cost —at a price that simply pays haulage—are you not carrying it at less than half the legitimate price?—Yes, there is no doubt of it; but our desire is to establish a timber trade between Invercargill and Dunedin, &c, and add to our present freight traffic timber-trains, which can be run during night without interfering with our daily traffic. The timber rates previously quoted appear to be very low indeed, but are sufficient to pay the department handsomely and compare favourably with other rates ; thus, 2,000 superficial feet at l-Bth per 100 feet is equal to 2id. per truck per mile. The through rate of freight on sawn timber from Invercargill to Dunedin is 3s. 4d. per 100 feet; so that a train-load consisting of 32,000 superficial feet, or sixteen truck-loads, wrould realize a return of revenue to the extent of £53 Cs. Bd., while transport charges would not exceed £4 —thus, wages, £1 10s.; fuel, oil, &c, £2 10s.—leaving a net revenue of £49 6s. Bd., which is amply sufficient to warrant, if necessary, the return of trucks empty, and leave a handsome profit to the department. Although the timber trade is at present in a depressed state, I am fully persuaded that ere long it will become one of the most profitable branches of freight traffic on the Middle Island railways. Ordinary wear and tear for such a train would not exceed £5. 600. I infer from what you stated just now that you would consider Is. per train per mile an excessive charge for wear and tear of the engine and rolling-stock ? —Yes, I think it is rather excessive. Mr. Edward McKenna, station-master, Invercargill, sworn and examined. 601. Mr. Wright.~\ It appears from the published returns that the working expenses on this section of the railway are considerably higher than on the Dunedin and Christchurch Sections : can you explain why it is so ? —I have not been here long enough to judge heretofore; only I know that the goods traffic is a good deal less than what it was. 602. The goods traffic in this district has fallen off?—lt seems to have fallen off. I may explain that lam merely station-master, having charge of the passenger department. There is a goods agent, who manages the goods department. 603. Has any means' suggested itself to your mind by which the working expenses might be reduced? —I have made a suggestion on that subject. 604. Would you be good enough to state what your suggestion was? —To amalgamate the two offices of station-master and goods agent. Prom my experience on the railways, there is not sufficient to warrant an officer being at the head of each of these departments. 605. Do the two departments entail additions to the staff otherwise in the shape of clerical work ?— Of course there are two different staffs; whereas if the two departments were under one head, he might make use of the one staff to work both the goods and passenger traffic. 606. Do you think the passenger traffic is heavy enough to justify the running of two trains a day— say on the Winton-Kingston line? —I do not think one train would be quite sufficient, but I would only run three days of the week to Kingston —say Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday ; on the other three days from Invercargill to Elbow only. This would save 228 miles unproductive running in the week. The Eiverton train brings in a large number of the passengers. The best-populated part of the line from here to Kingston is between here and Winton, and mostly between here and Makarewa, the junction of the Riverton line. 607. Do you think the passenger trains between here and Kingston are being worked at a profit or at a loss at the present time ? —To a certainty I should imagine they have been worked at a loss. I am not in possession of all the figures, but from my observation I should say so. I have only been up that line once since I have been here. That was twelve months ago. I know there were not six passeugers from the Elbow to Kingston, a distance of about 38 miles. 608. Can you give, from your ticket returns, the average number of passengers from Kingston to Invercargill ? —I could give you them from Invercargill to Kingston. There are not very many —I should say from one to three a day. During excursion times, when single tickets are issued as returns, there are more. The following is the number of passengers booked to Kingston from Invercargill, from
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Ist October, 1879, to 31st March, 1880 : First-class single, 231, £254 25.; second-class single, 356, £261 2s. 4d. ; first-class return, 101, £166 13s. ; second-class return, 14, £15 Bs.: total number of passengers, 702; total receipts, £697 ss. 4d. 609. Is the traffic between here and Eiverton of a more profitable kind ? —I do not think so. There is very little population between here and Eiverton after passing the junction. 610. Do you think one train a day would fairly meet the traffic in that direction, looking always to the desirability of making the railways pay? —I suggested to the manager to bring the train no further than Makarewa, returning from there and meeting the train from here to Kingston. 611. That is, to work from the junction as a branch ?—Yes—the same as is done at the KaiapoiEyreton Junction, near Christchurch. 612. How many trains would that dispense with between the junction and Eiverton ?—lt would save 32 miles in the journey if you ran two trains in the day, and that would also mean the consumption of less coal. 013. How many years' experience have you had in railway traffic?—l am now in my thirteenth year. Eiveeton, Monday, sth Apbil, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. J. Reid (Mayor), Councillors Mills, Locke, and Petchell, and Messrs. T. Daniel, J. Taylor, and B. Berndtson, waited upon the Commission to urge the desirability and importance of carrying out the construction of the Orepuki Eailway. 614. Mr. J. lieid (Mayor) made the following statement: We have met.as a deputation, composed of the Municipal Council and settlers of long standing in this western district, to bring under your notice the desirability of the Government carrying out to its completion the Orepuki Eailway as soon as possible. There is a contract for sor 6 miles under way. It stops in the centre of a dense bush; and unless it be carried through to the gold workings at Orepuki, the work already done will be to a certain extent valueless. There is an extensive mining population at Orepuki, and vast resources of coal and gold. Other members of the deputation better acquainted with the resources of the locality will be prepared to afford any information you may desire. Mr. John Eobeet Mills sworn and examined. 615. The Chairman.'] Are you a resident in the district through which this railway would run ?— I am a resident of Eiverton. 616. But you are well acquainted with the district? —Tes; I have resided here for over twenty years. 617. Will you be good enough to tell the Commission what are the resources of the country which you think will make the railway payable ? —ln the first place the forests are very valuable for timber of all descriptions that are in general use —totara, red, black, and white pine. I cannot speak altogether from my own knowledge, but I understand there is an extensive coal field at Orepuki —that they have lately sunk to a depth of 40 or 50 feet to get coal, and that there is a seam of coal over 20 feet in thickness. The line, if carried out, would go through a large area of Crown land at present unsold, and also intersect a deferred-payment block which has been recently surveyed at Paihi. The gold field at Orepuki has been in existence for twelve years. 618. Have there been miners at work all that time ? —Tes, in alluvial mining. A large amount of money has been expended in the construction of a sludge-channel from the sea-coast, and also in headraces to convey water for long distances to work the claims. 619. Have quartz reefs been discovered ?—Not at Orepuki, but at Longwood, which is not on the line of railway. The present contract takes the line to the nearest point from the reef, about 3 or 4 miles. 620. Can you speak as to the quality of the coal ?—I can only speak from the reports made of the coal sent up. They have been very favourable. There is also shale, which I believe will be very valuable. 621. Can you say what proportion of the land is open land, and what proportion is bush that would be served by the railway ? —The whole of the open land in the neighbourhood would be opened up by this railway, including the deferred-payment block at Paihi. There is a large quantity of open land at Orepuki, and for some sor 6 miles beyond it. It is partly open land, and partly light-timber land, of very good quality. With the exception of a small portion, the land is still in the hands of the Government. 622. Do you think there would be a large quantity of timber brought along the line ?—I have not the slightest doubt of it. 623. In what way would it be disposed of—where would it be taken to ?—At present there is a timber trade between this place and the northern ports —Dunedin, principally, and Oamaru. 624. Can you state what is the population upon the line at present ?—There are a large number of miners at the Eound Hill. The line would pass within 2 or 3 miles from that place. It is the gold field between here and Orepuki. I could not say with any certainty the number of miners at work there. 625. What is the length of the line to Orepuki ? —I think it is 18 miles altogether. The present contract is for 6 miles. 626. Mr. Wright.~\ You mentioned shale as being one of the minerals at Orepuki: is that kerosene shale ? —Yes. It burns very well. 627. Are you aware whether it has been tested?—lt has been tested at Dunedin. 628. Is it found to be as good as the New South Wales shale ? —I forget what the report stated about it; I know it was a very favourable report. 629. Do you know whether it exists in large quantities?—There are large quantities of the shale, but it is not so abundant as the coal. 630. What is the present price of coal at Eiverton ? —lt depends upon the quality. We have not any of that coal in the market.
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631. I mean the price of coal in consumption? —£1 15s. per ton is paid for imported coal. 632. You are not at present using the Nightcaps coal ?—No. 633. In the event of these- Longwood reefs being developed, what fuel would they have for their steam engines? —Wood. There are dense forests all round here. 634. Mr. Clark."} You have referred to the 6-miles extension as being the present contract: how much of that enters the bush ? —lt enters the bush within a mile from the town. 635. So that even that extension of itself would open up sufficient bush for a timber trade for some years to come ?—No, it would not—for this reason, that it does not take in the best of the bush. A great portion of the bush has already been worked by saw-mills, and a good deal of the timber used. 636. Then the best portion of the bush left is beyond the 6 miles ? —Yes. 637. Can you give an idea of the extent of population at Orepuki ?—About 250, consisting of miners, and persons in the township who supply the miners. There are a few settlers who have taken up land on the deferred-payment system. 638. Is there much open land ? —There is a considerable quantity of open land. 639. What class land as-regards quality? —There are very good ridges of strong flax growing in aome places. There is a considerable quantity of light-timber land of very good quality. 640. You can give no positive information regarding the coal field which is said to exist there ?— No, I cannot speak of my own knowledge. 641. Is there any member of this deputation able to give evidence on that point ?—I think Mr. Daniel and Mr. Taylor have both visited the place. 642. In sending timber from Eiverton to Dimedin do you know the amount of freight that is charged to Dunedin per 100 feet? —I believe 3s. is charged at the present time. 643. Is that by rail entirely, or do you ship at the Bluff? —No; it is shipped from Eiverton. 644. Colonel JPearce.] What depth of water have you in the harbour here ?—There is more water in the harbour than there is on the bar. Vessels drawing eight feet of water can come in here very conveniently. It is a tidal harbour. 645. The timber would be merely sent to the port at Eiverton, and be shipped from thence ? — Yes. Mr. T. DawieTj sworn and examined. 646. The Chairman.] I understand you to have some personal knowledge of the character of the coal field ? —Yes ; I first visited the coal field some nine years ago. 647. Do you know whether the coal has been analyzed scientifically ? —Captain Hutton was sent down hereto report on the coal. He examined it, and his report will be found in the Blue Books of the session of 1873. He stated that it was superior to the Nightcaps coal, and was of the same quality as the coal discovered at Taylor's Creek, on the Waiau. 648. Did he also report as to the probable quantity ? —I think he stated that he traced it everywhere. The diggers were then working in the gully. I think he stated that he traced it for about 3 miles, and that when afterwards going over the Waiau country he picked up the same seam there. 649. Apart from the supply to the Township of Eiverton, what demand do you consider there would be for the coal ? —I believe the coal will find its way into the Dunedin market at about 4s. or ss. per ton cheaper than the Kaitangata coal. The last time I was at the workings I saw a tail-race which they had cut for 16 feet. I understand they have 20 feet of a facing. 650. Have you any knowledge of the character of the land the line would pass through ? —Some few years ago Mr. Holloway, a gentleman sent out to this country as the representative of a number of agricultural farmers in England, visited Otago. He came to this district. I was requested by the Superintendent, Mr. Macandrew, to show him the country. I took Mr. Holloway in a whaleboat to Paihi. He stated that it was the finest piece of land he had seen in travelling through Otago. It is one of the largest Maori settlements south of Otago. 651. Have you anything to add to the evidence already given regarding the coal ?—A quantity of shale was sent up by myself to Dunedin. Professor Black experimented on it. I saw the oil that was extracted. He published his report in the Otago Gazette. Pie stated that it was some of the finest oil he had ever seen —that it was very rich indeed. The only difficulty connected with it was that it existed in a heavily-timbered country, with no port nearer than Eiverton, and that it would be utterly impossible to get it out except by the iron horse. I went to Wellington eighteen months ago. On my way there I met with Captain Kennedy, the master of a steamer trading to Newcastle. I showed him some of the shale. He was very much pleased with it. Pie said they were not able to supply the demands of this colony from Newcastle, and he believed this shale would find a very ready market. I have seen some of the shale in large slabs of from 2 feet to 5 feet thick. I have cut off a piece, and you could not bear to smell it as it was so strong. 652. Mr. Clark.] Are those coal fields, and the land on which shale is found, Crown lands? —It is all Crown land, with the exception of a small piece which has lately been taken up on the deferredpayment system. 653. Including the best of this timber ? —Yes ; the whole of it is Government land. With regard to the timber, we have a very good opinion of it from Mr. McKerrow, who surveyed all that country. His report was asked for during the time I was a member of the Otago Provincial Council. He stated that some of the large totara trees measured 26 feet round the stem, and from 60 feet to 70 feet to the branches. 654. Mr. Wright."] Has this land been always locked up from sale ? —lt was impossible for persons to get there. The roads were impassable. 655. Is this land at present shut up from sale under the Otago land regulations ?—No ; a portion of it is open for sale now under the deferred-payment S3 rstem. The land was taken up under this system on the understanding that the railway would be extended there. Mr. McKerrow stated that along the line of railway blocks of land not exceeding 100 acres each should only be opened up. 656. Does the deferred-payment land cover the coal field ? —The terminus will be a mile or a mile and a quarter from the coal field.
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657. Is that coal field part of the land now thrown open for sale on deferred payment ?—No, it is not. They hare only thrown open the open country. There are beautiful valleys, very heavily timbered, with very little underbrush. It is some of the finest land in the country. 658. Mr. Reid.] Does the coal-shale exist on the flat ? —lt is a sort of gully. They have opened the face of it, and have cut a sludge-channel. 659. "What is the nature of the soil in this timber country ?—lt is beautiful soil —decomposed vegetable matter. The gardens and small cultivations will astonish any one who sees them. I should prefer the bush land. I have been twenty years in Australia, and have lived for a greater period in this country, and have had a great deal of experience in land. GOO. Colonel Pearce.~\ Does the proposed line of railway go over level ground ?—lt is pretty level country. The portion of the line proposed to be constructed will not cost two-thirds the amount expended on the 6 miles. 661. There are no heavy cuttings ?—No. "What made the 6 miles of railway so expensive to construct was the heavy cutting through hard rock. 662. Is it undulating country? —It is undulating through the bush. It is not heavy until you get up to the slopes at Longwood. I believe the Government intend to assist in opening the'sludgechannel. Wheu Mr. Rolleston was here he instructed the Government Engineer to make a survey and find the levels. They have got a fall of 55 feet. This will give facility for some 400 or 500 miners to work. There is no gold field to equal in richness the gold which has been got up there from the Eound Hill onwards. The only drawback to mining is the want of water. We have not had such a dry season here for the last twenty-eight years. Mr. James Tayloe sworn and examined. 663. The Chairman.'] You have had considerable experience as a miner ?—Tes, as a gold-miner. I can corroborate the statements of the last two witnesses as to the quality and quantity of the coal. We used the coal for sharpening our tools and for fuel. There could be a very extensive face opened up in many places by bringing up all the fall that could be obtained from the creek. The line of reef at present is about 3 miles in length, and it is extending. The Longwood claims are now extending about 2 miles. There are about 250 miners at Eound Hill. The sludge-channel is partly constructed. The object for which it is being taken up is to work the lower ground. The miners have been working under very great disadvantages, being below the water. The Chinese principally work it. It is a level country right down to where the railway would cross it. 664. Do you consider that the formation of this railway would materially help in developing these reefs ?—I could not say as to developing the reefs, but it would be a great facility to the public. The whole of the traffic would come that way. I was keeping a store for some time at the Round Hill. Most of the gold was brought there. The quantity of gold bought was something considerable. At the place where the sludge-channel will open, the Chinese earn on an average from £4 to £6 a week, shovelling the stuff at the low level and throwing it up some eight feet, instead of sluicing it. 665. Mr. Wright.] Can you say what number of men are engaged at these Longwood reefs?—l think there are about eighty at present. A great many of the claims are not represented. They are waiting for leases. 666. What is the total length of reef now taken up and covered by claims ? —About 4 miles. 667. At how many points on the 4 miles has the reef been proved ? —There are only three claims at present, simply because the others have been doing no work. Mr. B. Beendison sworn and examined. 668. The Chairman.] Do I understand that you can corroborate what has been already stated by other witnesses in reference to the coal ? —-Yes. 669. Do you know anything as to the gold ?—Yes ; I quite corroborate Mr. Taylor's evidence with reference to the gold. I may state that, as at present worked, the Eound Hill field will never be worked out. The great difficulty is the want of water-supply. 670. Mr. Beid.] Will not that be remedied when the sludge-channel is made up ?—No ; there is no water available. You would require to go 70 or 80 miles to get the water. 671. According to your opinion, the gold field is not likely to be more populous than it is now ? — It will employ about three times the number of men. Some miners can work on higher levels, and the water will be used two or three times over. Mr. J. Reid sworn and examined. 672. I have had considerable experience in saw-mills here. We used to raft the timber down to the mill. Now the bush has got used to such an extent on the water-frontage that it is impossible to carry on the trade successfully on account of the long carriage of the timber to the river. The sawmill industry would be very materially developed if the railway were carried through into the forest. The logs could be brought down to the township to be manufactured. The only solution of the longcarriage difficulty is to tap the forest with the railway. There are several saw-mills now shut up on account of the long carriage to the port. If the railway were carried into the forest there is no doubt the export of timber would be very considerable. There are valuable totara and black-pine trees in the forest that would be tapped by the railway. These two timbers are in much request for railway purposes. This class of timber always commands such a price as to enable sawmillers to bring it a considerable distance to the mills. This is not the case with regard to the red and white pines, which are but half the price of the black pine.
Oeepuei, Tuesday, 6th Apbil, 1880. Mr. Fhedehick Beiciiel, miner, sworn and examined. 673. Mr. Wright."] Have yon been long resident in this district ? —For nine years. I have been here since the beginning of the gold field-
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674. Are you one of the shareholders in the mineral lease of 240 acres, Nos. 21 and 22 ? —I have a small interest in it. The shareholders requested me to state how it could be worked. 675. On what terms is this lease held ? —One shilling an acre per year for the first ten years, and two shillings per acre per year for the next period. 676. How many years has the lease to run ?—Twenty-one years, dating from 1879. 677. Will you state over what extent of country this coal field has been proved, and what is the thickness of the seams ?—We have not gone through any of the seams yet. 678. We have seen certain outcrops of coal, arid we want you to state the thickness as far as it is known. —The thickest part is 16 feet. We have gone through 16 feet, and there is still coal. 679. Has it been proved beyond the limits of Section 22 ? —The coal has been proved for about 3 miles away from that section. 680. At how many points ? —Coal Creek and Waimearnea Creek. 681. Is it of equal quality and thickness ?—I "believe the thickness has not been ascertained in any of them. They have not gone through any of the seams of coal. There seems to be a slight dip. 682. State what you know with reference to the shale deposit?—As a general rule, wherever we find the coal, shale is not far away. There are 60 feet of coal exposed on the western bank of the Taunoa Creek. The following is my report to the shareholders interested in this mineral lease: —• " Gentlemen, —In compliance with your request, I have taken the levels of the different out" crops of coal and shale in Mineral Lease 22, and have prepared a sketch-map as near to actua^ survey as possible with the appliances at command, To commence at the outcrop of coal and shale in [Fitzgerald's Dam, Taunoa Creek, I have placed it on the map as No. 1. There is a seam of coal showing for about 60 feet along the western bank of the creek; at the upper end is a seam of shale about; 7 feet thick, with a dip to the west at an angle of forty-five degrees; the shale is resting on a coal bottom. That part is the lowest level in your lease, and consequently will be wet; nevertheless there is a drainage-fall to be had of 42 feet from the main sludge-channel, should you ever require to open that part. JSTo. 2is a great body of coal and shale crossing the bed of Taunoa Creek ; some few tons of shale have been taken out from it; the seam of shale 'is 5 feet thick, with a dip to the southeast at an angle of forty-five degrees; there is coal below and on top of shale, the coal resting on a granite bottom. The rise from No. Ito No. 2is 23 feet in 18 chains. No. 3is a body of coal at the mouth of Pryett's Gully, about 200 feet from No. 2. No. 4 is a bed of coal in what is known as Walker's Old Tail-race, or Coal Gully. You will see by the map that there is almost a continuation of coal and shale, bearing in a north-east direction; and for about 12 chains the tail-race has been cut in it all the way with the exception of a few short distances, which may be accounted for by slight dips in coal, and consequently filled up with sand and stones. No. sis a seam of shale; the thickness has not been ascertained as yet; the tail-race is cut in it about 3 feet deep; the dip is south-east at an angle of forty-five degrees. No. 6 and No. 7, coal and shale. No. Bis a seam of shale ; some of it has been tested in Dunedin with very favourable results, No. 9is a great body of coal and shale. From No. 8 to the highest point of No. 9 are old gold-workings ; the soil has been washed away. No outcrop of coal or shale has as yet been seen on a higher level in Mineral Lease 22. Mineral Leases 20 and 21 have not been prospected. " C. P. Reicheii." 683. Mr. Reid.~\ Do you know anything about the analysis of this shale or coal? —I have tried the coal myself. It is a very good burning coal. As for the shale, we do not know what the market value of it may be. There is no doubt that there is plenty of it. A great body of the shale has been found at point No. 9 on the plan of Section 22. 684. I understood that analyses had been made of both the coal and shale ?—An analysis has been made of the shale ; but Ido not know exactly where the report of the analysis is. Mr. Daniel may be able to supply it. 685. Mr. Clark.] I thought you mentioned that a portion of the shale'was sent to Dunedin to be tested. Are you able to produce that test ? —I have not got the assay. The following is the report of Mr. Genever, engineer of the Dunedin Gasworks, with reference to the gas-producing qualities of the shale. 686. Mr, WrigJit.~\ What is the general extent of the coal field ? Have you any idea of the number of acres over which this coal field extends? —It is very hard to say. In my opinion, the great body of the coal extends to the westward. I believe the coal and shale will be found extending over the "flat. 687. Mr. Clark.] At point No. 2, in Section 22, you spoke of the coal lying on a granite bed. At that point have you ascertained the thickness of the seam ? —No. The thickness of the seam, as it seems to dip, may perhaps be 15 feet; but, as the creek has cut the coal down, you cannot tell exactly the thickness. Part of the seam has been cut away by the action of the water. 688. Then the length exposed would be 15 feet? —No; it is between 40 and 50 feet. 689. The thickness of the seam, as far as you can judge, is 15 feet ?—Tes; as closely as I can judge. 690. Then at point No. 6 a shaft has been sunk in the coal to a depth of 16 feet, and has not yet passed through it ? —Tes. I expect the coal will go as low as the granite bottom—that is, dipping away. 691. Mr. Wright.] I understand that in each case where the coal has been cut through it has been cut through vertically, and the seam dips at an angle of 45 degrees, so that the vertical depth is not the true depth ? —No. 692. The depth vertically would be greater than the thickness of the seam of coal ? —Tes. 693. Does the same remark apply to the depth of the shale at point No. 1, Section 22, where there are 7 feet exposed ? —No; it is 7 feet thick. It was cut by Mr. Kirkton for a test. 694. Is that the only case in which you have proved the thickness of the shale ? —The shale at point No. 2 has been proved to bo 5 feet in thickness. The Waimeamea is 3 miles distant from our present survev of the coal and shale at Section 22. The depth of the face of coal exposed at Waimeamea is about 10 feet in some parts. I have not measured it there, but I estimate it at 10 feet.
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Mr. Thomas Akmstbong, miner, sworn and examined. 695. Mr. Wright.'] How long have you been resident in the district ? —A little over nine years. I am pretty well acquainted with the district, both on this side and on the Longwood side. lam interested in the coal leases Nos. 20, 21, and 22. I have been working for gold during the last five or six years on and about the coal. A great part of the coal at point No. 9 was exposed by the goldworkings. It is a good hard coal, and it is all pretty fair ; it is extra hard at No. 9. It is 18 feet thick between points 8 and 9on the plan. It was cut through to that depth, 14 feet of which is still exposed, and there is no bottom. We have several times tried to bottom through the coal, but have not succeeded for want of proper drainage. Close to point 9 a bed of shale of about fifty or sixty tons was washed down by the hydraulic sluice. The bed of shale was so large that it would not pay to remove it in order to recover the washdirt. 696. Do you know anything of the outcrop of coal in other parts of the district? —-The coal crops out at Coal Gully and at Waimeamea Creek, but the thickness has not been ascertained. You cannot get through it. 697. Prom your knowledge of the country, do you think it would be possible to obtain drainage for the whole of the coal? —Not for the whole. We could get drainage to the depth of 40 feet on the lower part of Section 22. There is a fall of 40 feet to be obtained by bringing up the tail-race. It would only be necessary to bring the tail-race 25 or 30 chains. The Dunedin Company race is tunnelled through a bed of the coal at Waimeamea for a distance of 4 or 5 chains. 698. Has any of the shale been analyzed? —Two packages of the shale have been forwarded to Wellington —one for analysis by Dr. Hector, and one for the Public Works Department. 699. Mr. Reid.] Was the shale sent a fair average of the face, or was it picked ? —lt was a fair average of the shale. 700. Then you think the quantity still to be obtained is of equal value? —Tes ; we did not pick the samples we sent. In fact, Dr. Hector complained that we had not cleaned them. Mr. Robert Rlddell, carpenter, sworn and examined. 701. Mr. Wright.] You have heard the evidence of the two last witnesses. From your knowledge of this coal field, can you corroborate what they have stated? —I can corroborate what has been stated with regard to the coal field on Section 22. I have got coal outside the limits of this lease at the head of Clark's Gully —that is, about 200 yards from the edge of the bush. Mr. Aeciiibald McPhebson, farmer, sworn and examined. 702. Mr. Wright.] Are you well acquainted with this part of the country ? —Yes. 703. What extent of open land is available for settlement, say, within 10 miles of Orepuki ?—I should say from 8,000 to 10,000 acres. There may be a part of it light, scrubby land, but it is good soil, and is fit for settlement. 704. In what direction is the principal part of the 10,000 acres ?—A great part of it lies between here and the Waiau —that is, the valley extending from here to the Waiau along the coast, from a mile to a mile and a half from the coast. 705. What value would you put upon that land if open for sale ?—I should say, if open for sale by public auction it would average £2 an acre. 706. Mr, Clarlc] In valuing the land at £2 per acre, is that as the land stands now, or is it in the event of a railway being carried out? —As it stands now, in its natural state. I believe that, if the railway is constructed, there is not an acre of land within 10 miles of here that will not be worth £4. 707. Are the 10,000 acres you estimate still open for selection ? —No. A great part of it is taken up already. 708. What portion is already taken up? —There are over 1,000 acres taken up on the Orepuki side, and I should say there are 1,200 acres taken up on the Paihi side. 709. Then does your estimate of 10,000 acres include all the land available for agriculture close by this proposed line of railway ? —A great part of it, from Orepuki northward towards the mouth of the Waiau, would be benefited to a certain extent. Settlers there would get their grain and produce away from Orepuki; but it is 6or 7 miles from here. 710. What extent of land suitable for settlement would there be on the block you refer to aa being likely to be benefited to a certain extent by the railway ? —I should say that there would be about 7,000 acres, partly taken up. As far as I remember, there are 7,000 acres in a block at Paihi; but it is partly heavy bush, and is not included in my estimate. 711. Mr. Wright."] Would the extension of this railway give any material stimulus to the mining industry ? —ln the way of getting stores or freight of any kind it would be a very large saving. We pay at present at the rate of £4 a ton for freight from Riverton. I suppose that if we had a railway we could get our goods through for 10s. or 15s. per ton. 712. Is the gold field nearly worked out in this neighbourhood ? —I am not a miner myself; but, from what I can hear, I believe that if there was plenty of water there would be still a great deal of gold got. Mr. Henby Hiest, M.H.R., sworn and examined. 713. Mr. Wright.] How long have you been settled in this district ? —Nineteen years altogether. 714. Are you acquainted with the district to the westward of Orepuki ?—Yes, very well. 715. What extent of country to the westward would be rendered accessible by the extension of the line from Riverton to Orepuki ? What extent of country would become suitable or available for settlement ? —From the head of the Waimeamea, where the deferred-payment blocks are situated, up to the Waiau there is light scrubby land, which would be available for settlement if we had the railway : at least, that is the presumption ; and I firmly believe myself that that land would be settled if we had easier means of communication. From the head of the Waimeamea to a long way up the riverbed of the Waiau the land is covered with a light scrub, and is the finest agricultural land you can get. I suppose there are from 15,000 to 20,000 acres there, and Orepuki is the only outlet from which it can be worked.
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716. Does the high rate of freight between here and Riverton at present deter settlement?—The high rate of freight prevents men from working the gold fields profitably. The charge of £4 per ton for freight is very heavy on the working-men. 717. Have you any idea of the population westward of Orepuki ?—The population is nil, excepting the lighthouse people at Puysegur Point. There is a run across the Waiau, but that is from the Riverton side. 718. Mr. Reid.~\ Have you grown any grain here ?—1 have grown oats and barley, but not wheat. 719. Have you tested the yield per acre ? —No, I have never tested it so as to be quite clear. 720. Can you state the average yield of produce in an ordinary season ? —I have seen a crop this year which would turn out from eighty to ninety bushels per acre. I have grown very good barley, but I have never tested it so as to ascertain the exact yield ; but it was really good. I have never grown any wheat, but some wheat has been grown here. 721. Do you think that, in the event of the line being carried through, there would be a large quantity of grain exported from here? —I do not think there would be a large quantity, but I think the railway would be payable owing to the quantity of shale, coal, and timber that would be sent by it. There have been numerous inquiries lately for timber-sites along this route. I have been asked by several people when the railway would be completed, so that they might take up timber-sites. 722. Do you know how far it is from the Riverton end of the bush before good timber could be got for milling purposes ?—From the deviation they could get timber down to this point all along the route of the present line. 723. Does the present contract tap any good timber ?—There is good timber for sawinilling purposes where the deviation is from the old survey. I cannot say there is good timber from there upwards, because it is nearly all manuka ; but after the Native reserve is passed, and all along the face of the hills to the westward, there is good bimber. 724. How far would the line have to be extended from the end of the present contract in order to tap good timber ? —lt taps good timber all along. 725. How much further would it have to go in order to tap good timber? I understand the present contract from Riverton is 6 miles long ? —Beyond the Native reserve there are 1,100 acres of the best timber on the whole route of one class ; but, in order to tap black pine and totara, the line would have to come to the Oriwera, which is 10 miles from Riverton. I believe, myself, from the easy manner in which the coal could be worked at Orepuki, that the railway would have great difficulty in keeping the mine clear of coal. 725a. Do you think there would be any stock traffic between here, Invercargill, and Dunedin?— There would be some, no doubt. At present we have to depend upon the local consumption, or else drive the cattle to Riverton. On my place at present there are close on from eighty to a hundred head of cattle. I may say that if the Government take over the sludge-channel at the Round Hill, as they contemplate doiug, there will be room for 800 or 1,000 more men than there are at present upon the ground.
Inveecargill, Wednesday, 7th April, 1880. Mr. Thomas Aethtte, General Manager, Invercargill Section, further examined. 726. Mr. Wright.] Are you able to furnish a return of the Sunday passenger traffic on the Bluff line, exclusive of the ordinary daily traffic ?—I am in a position to furnish the Commission with statistical information regarding the Sunday passenger traffic on the Bluff line from sth October, 1879, to 4th April, 1880, including twenty-seven Sundays. The number of first-class single passengers booked is 388, equal to £54 15s. Id.; of second-class, 776, equal to £89 18s. 7d. : total number of passengers, 1,164, equal to £144 13s. Bd. 727. That is for the busiest period of the year ?—Tes. 728. "What proportion would the winter traffic bear to that ?—I should say about one-half. 729. What do you consider the working expenses of that Sunday train ?—About £4 each Sunday. 730. Then the receipts would just about clear the expenses ? —The receipts are a little in excess of working expenses, without taking into consideration the wear and tear of rolling-stock and road. 731. According to the figures you have given me, the working expenses would be £208, and the total receipts £217, for the twelve months. Do you think it advisable to carry on traffic of so unprofitable a nature ? —I do not; but it satisfies the wishes of a certain section of the public. 732. Do you think the public would be satisfied if that train were allowed to run during the summer months only ? —I do not. 733. Mr. Clark.] What class of the community would be inconvenienced by discontinuing the Sunday traffic during the winter months ? —lt is hard to determine the class. The classes are many and various who travel on Sundays, although the numbers are not great. 734. The passengers travelling to the Bluff on Sundays, even during the winter months, are entirely excursionists ? —Tes. 735. Mr. Reid.] Could you give any idea of the cost of the wear and tear and other charges on the Sunday train ? —I could not without referring to statistics connected with the Engineer's department. 736. How often does that train run on Sundays ?—Once each Sunday. 737. Colonel Pearce.] In the case of the arrival of the English mail on Sunday, is there any arrangement made for bringing the mail up ?■—We run a special train at once, as soon as the mail or intercolonial steamers are signalled, 738. Then the abandonment of the ordinary traffic on Sunday would not interfere with the mails being brought up on the Sunday? —In no way whatever. 739. Mr. Wright.] As a rule, do these steamers arrive on Sunday ?■ —Very seldom.
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741. Prom the figures you have given, I find the average number of passengers during the winter months is about twenty. How many railway officials are kept on Sunday duty in connection with this train ? —Nine. 742. Do you think it reasonable that nine officials should be occupied on Sunday to carry an average of twenty excursionists ? —I do not. 743. Can you furnish a return of the passenger traffic on the Otautau line ?—I can furnish the Commission with a return from 15th December, 1879, up to 7th April, 1880: First-class single, 146 passengers, equal to £54 lls. 3d. ; second-class, 412, equal to £103 18s. 2d. First-class return, 28 passengers, equal to £15 lf)s. ; second-class, 40, equal to £15 Cs. 9d. Total number of passengers, 626, equal to £189 15s. 2d. 744. That is an average of about £2 a day ? —lt is an average of barely £2 a day. 745. Does this return which you have given show the whole of the passenger traffic on the Otautau branch, or simply the traffic from liiverton ? —From Invercargill only. The traffic from Otautau to Invercargill and liiverton should also be included, as also that from Eiverton to Otautau, to complete the passenger-traffic return. 746. Would that double the figures you have given ? —I think not. The greater portion of the passenger traffic is from Invercargill. 747. The total traffic on the line from all sources would be something less than £4 a day ?—Yes. 748. Or £2 per trip ?— Yea. 749. Do you think, under those circumstances, it would be proper to reduce the trains on that line ? —I would not be in favour of reducing the present service before the grain traffic is over. 750. The return you have given is for the busiest period of the year ?—For the busiest period of the passenger traffic. 751. Would the average for the rest of the year be equal to one-half of that?—l should say three-fourths. 752. Then, if opposed to reducing the present service during the grain season, would you advocate a reduction during the winter months ?—Yes ; during the winter months only. 753. Do these two trains a day bring flown all the goods traffic P —All the goods traffic as well as the passenger traffic. The} r are mixed trains. 754. And you have no occasion to supplement these trains by special goods trains ?—No, none whatever. 755. Is the daily goods traffic during the grain season more than can be brought down by one train ? —Yes. I believe it to be in excess of that at the present time. I might now furnish you with a statement of the number of tons of grain that have been carried during the last four weeks. Over the Otautau line, for the four weeks ending 31st March, we have had booked from Otautau —grain, 288 tons ; merchandise, 5 tons; and 114 bales of wool. That comprises the outward traffic from Otautau. The inward traffic consists of 58,700 superficial feet sawn timber; 3 tons grain ; 52 tons merchandise ; and 1 ton minerals. I have a return of the passenger traffic between Invercargill and Eiverton for six months ended 31st March, 1880. First-class single, 711, equal to £214 Bs. 6d.; second-class, 2,531, equal to £481 4s. Bd. First-class return, 295, equal to £138 3s. Id. ; second-class, 310, equal to £97 3s. 9d. Total number of passengers, 3,817, equal to £931. 756. Would you state whether you consider the passenger traffic with the present number of trains sufficiently remunerative to justify the Government in running those trains? —Taking the passenger traffic alone into consideration, the trains that are run are in excess of the requirements of passenger traffic; but taking also the goods traffic into consideration, unless we run the present number of trains we would require to lay on special goods trains. The following is a return of passengers booked at the Invercargill Station for stations on the Bluff line for six months ended 31st March, 1880: First-class single, 1,473, equal to £282 3s. Sd. ; second, 4,227, equal to £453 15s. Id. First-class return, 556, equal to £14L 7s. 7d ; second, 908, equal to £105 7s. 6d. Total, 7,164 pasBengers, equal to £982 13s. lOd. The following is a return showing the number of passengers booked at Invercargill Station for Kingston during the six months ended 31st March, 1880: First-class single, 231, equal to £254 25.; second, 356, equal to £261 2s. 4d. First-class return, 101, equal to £166 13s. ; second, 14, equal to £15 Bs. Total number of passengers, 702, equal to £697 ss. 4d.
Clyde, Monday, 12th April, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Mr. Benjamin Naylor, member for the Dunstau Eiding, Vincent County ; Mr. John XJIB.II Cambridge; and Mr. Greorge Faclie, waited upon the Commission. 757. Mr. Naylor made the following statement: The inhabitants of Clyde are anxious to hare the Strath-Taieri Railway pushed on to completion. There is a good deal of land already taken up. The farmers are raising produce and stock in excess of the local demand, and they want to find a market for it. At present the farmers can only obtain Is. 6d. a bushel for oats. We would impress upon you the necessity of having the line pushed forward as fast as possible. 758. Mr. Fache made the following statement: The people of the up-country districts have looked upon the construction of the Strath-Taieri Railway as a necessity. People have taken up land in the belief that the railway would soon be constructed, and hundreds of persons are merely waiting to see when the line will be constructed in order to take up land. If the people have a guarantee that the line will bo opened, the land will be taken up through the interior of the country, and, instead of being a wilderness, as it apparently is now, it will be a field of plenty. As an evidence of the capabilities of the soil I may state that when I said five weeks ago that there was a probability of the yield of wheat averaging eighty bushels to the acre, I was ridiculed by outside people ; but when it came to the test it yielded ninety bushels. That will show that the land is capable of producing crops equal to anything grown in any other part of the country. We are blessed with a climate which is unequalled. There is no extreme winter or summer. The soil is capable of producing anything that man can demand from it. You may have seen in your travels some of the produce of our orchards ; but, at 6—E. 3.
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the present rate of carriage, it is impossible to send any of it away so as to make a profit. If we had the means of utilizing our resources, the Dunstan Valley would be as productive as any spot in the whole of the British possessions. I am thoroughly convinced that I am speaking that which is the truth. There is a patch of four or five acres on which was grown the wheat that yielded ninety bushels to the acre. A patch of ninety acres yielded sixty bushels to the acre. Hundreds of persons are anxious to take up land near the Dunstan Range. The reports of Mr. McKerrow and Mr. Blair were favourable as to the character of the land, which they represented as capable of sustaining a large population. The Dunstan Eange extends from here to the north and the east, bounding the Maniototo on the left. The Strath-Taieri Eailway would tap the Maniototo Plains, and the watershed of the Taieri. There are thousands of acres of laud there, and hundreds of streams running into the valley. There is a small ridge of hills. There is good land in the Manuherikia Valley, well suited for settlement if only opened up. lam well acquainted with the Blaniototo Plains, and with the capabilities of the country. The Plains are 20 miles long, and from 2to 4 miles wide. Then there is the Ida Valley, which is 25 miles long, and from Ito 3 miles wide, every inch of which is adapted for the plough. It yields excellent oats. There is no greater evidence of the capabilities of this tract of country than the fact that there is not a poor farmer in it. Tour or five years ago many poor men came into the district and took up land, and they are now rich. If we had only the means of bringing the produce on to the seaboard it would be as rich a country as could be desired. Owing to the large quantity of grain produced the local miller is only offering 4s. a bushel for wheat. There are 50,000 acres of land available for the plough in the Lauder Creek District. There is a quantity of Crown land in the Ida Valley. There are three blocks of agricultural land right in the centre of it. If the railway were only opened the people would gladly take up the land, but they will not lay out money on freehold land, unless with the prospect of a railway being opened.
Naseby, Tuesday, 13tii Apbil, 1880. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of Mr. Inder (Mayor), Mr. Wilson, Mr. Glenn, Mr. E. H. Brown (County Engineer), Mr. Busch, Mr. N. P. Hjorring, Mr. Allen, and Mr. H. Gh Robinson (Warden). 759. Mr. Inder made the following statement: We understand that the object of this Commission is to inspect the country, and to say where railways are required and where they are not required. We think the Commission will be convinced that a railway is required in this district, when they see the large extent of country to be opened up, and the large portion that is not yet alienated from the Crown. The Strath-Taieri, in my opinion, is the best agricultural country in our district, and will provide homesteads for many families when the railway is constructed. Land was sold in Strath-Taieri some years ago, but, owing to the want of means of communication, the purchasers had to give up the land. They could not convey their produce to any market. We have already been promised this railway, and one or two sections of it are in course of construction. Several blocks of land were thrown open in this district, and it was at first thought that those blocks would grow nothing at all. You will now find that almost every acre of that land lias been taken up, and that it is producing very fine crops. People here are anxiously waiting to have more land thrown open, and they are urging the Government to throw open more land. I think that is one reason why this Otago Central Bailway should be at once pushed forward. There seems to be a difference of opinion with regard to the route this railway should take. One route is on the Naseby side of the Taieri, and the other route is on the opposite side of the Taieri. There are gentlemen present who will be able to show which is the best route, and which will open the most land for settlement. I hope the Commission will not lose sight of the fact tbat we were promised that a branch to the Town of Naseby would be made from the nearest point of the Otago Central Eailway. Taking into consideralion the large amount of business done in Naseby, we think the Government would not be at any loss by constructing a branch line here. We were promised by the late Minister for Public Works that such a line would be constructed, and that land would be reserved for the line. 760. The Chairman : With respect to the duties of the Commission, I wish to explain that it has not only to make inquiries as to what railways should be made, but it has more especially to select from those the particular lines it is possible to make with the very small amount of money the Government have at present at their disposal. There may be many lines which are very much required for existing population, and to open land for future population; but at the same time there is not money enough to make all those desirable railways. Our duty, therefore, will be to select such lines or parts of lines as are more immediately necessary. 761. Mr. Inder: What I wish to impress is, that the Otago Central Eailway is necessary at present. For instance, we have had large crops this year ; but they will be a loss to the farmers, because, owing to the want of communication, the produce cannot be sent away. 762. Mr. Wilson made the following statement: As to the advisability of constructing only certain lines, I contend that the Otago Central Eailway has greater claims to be immediately constructed than any other railway. In the first place, it would be a great advantage to the Government to construct a line that runs for almost its entire length through waste lands of the Crown, because the Government will reap the benefit of the enhanced value of the land opened up. In the County of Maniototo at the present time there are 55,500 acres taken up and occupied. On the Maniototo Plains there are 200,000 acres of agricultural land, excluding pastoral and hilly country, in the hands of the Crown at the present time. In addition there are 35,000 acres taken up and settled on the Maniototo Plains. There are still 200,000 acres of agricultural land on the Maniototo Plains to be surveyed and taken up when sufficient inducement is given to intending settlers by the construction of the proposed line of railway. The line also comes up the Strath-Taieri Valley, and in that valley there are about 35,000 acres between Main's Station and Gladbrook. That area is still unoccupied. It is splendid country, and fit in every way for settlement. In the Ida Valley there are 40,000 acres of good agriCultural land not yet taken up. The total area of the County of Maniototo is upwards of 600,000 acres,
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Mr. Blair, in his report, estimated the present value of the agricultural land at £1 an acre, and it was supposed that if the railway were constructed the value of the land would be increased to £3 and £4 an acre. My opinion is, that without a railway the land is worth 255. or 30s. an acre. More than that amount has been paid for the land already taken up; but I do not consider that the land is worth more. 763. Mr. Robinson: The land was first offered at £3 an acre, but it was not taken up. When it was ottered at 30s. an acre on deferred payments it was taken up. People had an impression that the price would be lowered to 305., and they consequently refrained from applying for the laud at £3. The most of the 55,500 acres opened for settlement has been taken up. Most of the land taken up has only been occupied for three years or less, so that the occupants have not had an opportunity of purchasing under the regulations. It is therefore still Government land, held under agricultural lease. Of course some of it is deferred-payment land ; but that is actually bought, although the Government have not yet received all the money. 764. Mr. JReid: Can you give an idea how many bushels an acre this land usually yields ? 765. Mr. Wilson: Prom forty to seventy bushels an acre. I cannot absolutely state the actual yields. 766. Colonel Pearoe : Does the district grow enough wheat for its own consumption of flour ? 767. Mr. Robinson : Therj is no flour-mill in the district at present. The district has never grown any wheat for the purpose of grinding. We are trying to get a mill erected, which will show that we think we can grow enough wheat for our own requirements. The share list for the flour-mill has only been opened within the month, and nearly 1,000 shares have already been applied for. All the small farmers about here have been afraid to grow wheat, because they knew there was no market. They have grown such a large quantity of oats that they do not now know what to do with them. 768. Colonel Pearoe : Then at present you bring your flour from Dunedin ? 769. Mr. Robinson : No; from Palmerston. It is calculated that 300 tons of flour per annum are brought from Palmerston to the Maniototo Plains District. 770. Colonel Pearce : What is the population of the county ? 771. Mr. Robinson : About 2,700. 772. Colonel Pearoe: And yet, up to the present time you have not grown enough grain for your own consumption ? 773. Mr. Robinson : I have been Warden for twelve years, and during that time there has been continued agitation to have land opened for settlement. In my reports to the Government I have felt it my duty every year to point out that capital was going away from the district simply because people could not get land for settlement. When the first selections of land for settlement were made, the best land was not selected ; but lately better laud has been opened. People here are confident that they can raise grain in any quantity if they are only furnished with the means of disposing of it. In an untiinbered country like this it is a very serious difficulty to merely erect fences and buildings. Many people, before they get that done, have exhausted their little capital, and therefore the cultiva.tion of the land is a slower process here than it is in other parts of the country where there are timber and other conveniences. 774. Mr. Wright: What is the mining population of this district ? 775. Mr. Robinson : There are about 1,500 actual minors. The number of miners has fallen off very much of late years, because mining here has settled into sluicing-mining. As a rule there are no surface-workings, no sinking ; and mining is limited by the amount of water available. The tendency, therefore, is towards larger workings, which employ fewer men for the same results. 776. Mr. Wriijlit: Is there any coal of fair quality in the district? 777. Mr. Robinson : There is very good lignite at the Kyeburn, 11 miles from Naseby. There is lignite all about the country. The thickness of the vein at Kyeburn is about 15 feet. 778. Mr. R. 11. Brown: I was at the Kyeburn coalpits a few days ago, and I was shown two seams lying one above the other. One seam was 20 feet thick, and the other 30 feet. It was all good black coal, and not ordinary lignite. It is nearly as good as Shag Point coal. 779. Mr. Wright : Has the extent of the coal deposit been tested, or is there only one working ? 780. Mr. Brown : There is only one main working on this particular seam, but there are plenty of lignite beds in the vicinity. 781. Colonel Pearce : Is the nature of the country between the proposed railway line and the coal mine such that a district railway could be easily constructed? 782. Mr. Brown : Yes. At the crossing of tha river a tramway could be constructed right up to the coalpits, over about 10 miles of level country. 783. Mr. Wright: What reasons have you for urging that the railway should come on the Naseby side of the lake instead of the other side ? 781. Mr. Brown: It would open up the land on this side better. It would open the Kyeburn Hundred and other blocks which have been opened but not taken up. 785. Mr. Wright: Is the quality of the land better on this side ? 786. Mr. Brown : There is very little laud on the other side of the lake. All the agricultural land is on this side until you pass the lake and got into the upper portion of the Maniototo Plains. If the railway is taken by the Hamilton side —that is, the other side of the Taieri River from here—you will leave Kyeburn, and the whole of the land between Kyeburn and here, some 12 or 15 miles away from the railway; whereas, by crossing the river below the lake, the line would come out at Eden Creek, and come through here. The line would come in at the same point as if it were taken by the lake, and of course it would bring the railway nearer to Naseby. If taken on this side of the lake, the railway will run through workable land, but on the other side it will be a long way from that land. On this side it will open up 17,000 acres in the Kyeburn Block, which have been taken up. If taken on the other side, that land will be something like 10 miles from the railway ; at any rate, quite that distance from a railway station. If the line were taken this way, that land would bo within 3 miles of a railway station,
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787. Mr. Clark: If the railway were brought nearer to Kyeburn, would it materially lengthen the line ? 788. Mr. Brown : I am of opinion that it would shorten it. 789. Mr. Clark : "Would it shorten the line, keeping in view the tapping of the Ida Valley afterwards ? 790. Mr. Brown : It would not lengthen the main line at all. It would shorten all the branch lines. Without lengthening the main line at all, in my opinion, the railway might be made to pass within 5 miles of the Town of Naseby, within 10 miles of the Kyeburn coalpits, and within 3 miles of 17,000 acres which have already been taken up. I made a flying survey from the Strath-Taieri, and I brought the line on this side of the river. I fancy that is the most direct route which can be found, although I will not say that it would be less expensive to make. The cost would not be much increased by taking the route I propose ; but, even if it were, the extra cost would be eventually saved upon the construction of branch lines. 791. Mr. Wright: What is the character of an ordinary winter in this place? 792. Mr. Glenn: It is very mild. Twenty miles down towards the Taieri there is scarcely any snow or frost. 793. Mr. Brown : Six miles from this township there is a descent of 600 feet, which is below snow-level. This town is 1,650 feet above sea-level. The snow lies here in winter about a couple of months. Down by the lake the snow never lies at all. There are nearly 80,000 acres on which the snow does not lie on the Maniototo Plains and around the Taieri Lake. 794. Mr. Busch: I wish to bring under the notice of the Commission the question of a branch line to Naseby. When the surveyors were on the ground I applied to the Government to have a survey made of the proposed branch line to Naseby, so that the land required for the line should not be sold. I received a letter from the Under-Secretary, dated 3rd April, 1878, saying that the Minister for Public Works would instruct the Engineer in Charge, Middle Island, to lay out the branch line so that the land required might be reserved from sale. That has not yet been done. If it is done now, while the surveyors are at work on the line, it might prevent the sale of the land which will be required for the branch line.
Hyde, Wednesday, 14th Apkii, 1880. A deputation from the Hyde Progress Committee, consisting of Messrs. John Laverty (Chairman), Theodore H. Bitchey (Secretary), Peter Lawton, Edward O'Connell, John O'Brien, Robert Boyd, and Patrick Kinney, waited upon the Commission. 795. Mr. Laverty made the following statement: We wish to bring under your notice the importance of at once proceding with the section of the railway between Hindon and the terminus at Clyde. It is the most diOßcult section of the line of railway to construct, and we were led to expect that it would be commenced about this time. We would also desire to bring under your notice the fact that a flying survey has been made, but the permanent survey is not being proceeded with. Only one staff is employed, and it will be a long time before they can complete the survey to this place. Nothing can be done until the survey has been completed. Oil either side of this particular section the country is comparatively level, and there will be no engineering or other difficulty in the way of constructing the line of railway. The settlement here is at present at a standstill from the want of access to any market. We have only inferior roads; and people interested in the progress and settlement of the district are anxiously waiting for the line to be constructed. The railway would require to tap the Maniototo before it would be reproductive or self-supporting. The Strath-Taieri is a very fertile plain, and people are looking forward with anxiety for an opportunity of settling upon it. It would be a fruitless speculation to do so until the railway goes through it. The settlers have no local market, and the only means by which they could send their produce to market is the railway. 796. Mr, Bitchey made the following statement: An appropriation of over £128,000 has been already made for the construction of the section of railway referred to between Deep Stream and the Taieri Lake, and the settlers have been anxiously looking forward to the time when the contracts will be given out. 1 would go a little further than Mr. Laverty, and say that it is almost absolute starvation to the people who have taken up land in this district —and other districts are somewhat similarly situated —to have no market whatever to which to send their produce. Unless they have railway communication they must either abandon their farms, which means the savings of ten or fourteen years, or continue in a state in which they can scarcely exist. They have no other employment but farm-work, and they cannot possibly exist in the manner they are now doing for any length of time. The people, not only in this district, but in the surrounding agricultural districts, borrow money to enable them to carry on, and the invariable result is that the land gets into the hands of those for whom it was never intended. Men who take up 200 acres of land in this district find it a very hard struggle to make a living. I know this to be the case from coming in daily contact with these men. The only hope they have of improving their position is having direct railway communication with a market where they can dispose of their produce. The majority of the residents have been engaged in gold-mining for tne last fourteen or fifteen years, and they are anxious to settle down and make this place their home. We would urge upon you the necessity of having this section of the railway proceeded with as quickly as possible. Indeed, we are at a loss to know why the contracts are not let. It is the most difficult section to construct of the line, from the Mullocky Gully to Clyde. The railway will open up a large fertile belt of land. It will be remunerative to the Government, and will do much to advance settlement. The section we wish to see constructed without delay will open up the Maniototo Plain. About 10,000 acres of land have been taken up in this vicinity within a period of sis years. This augurs well for its future prosperity as an agricultural settlement. About two-thirds of this land is under cultivation. The whole of it would be under cultivation if we could get a market for the produce. We only grow sufficient to meet the wants of the people living in the district. The commencement of this section of railway, now that the mining industry is stagnant, would afford employment to a number of men here. They would be a more desirable class of men to take contracts on the
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railway than strangers coming into the place. They have resided in the district for a considerable time, and their work would be genuine. They have had experience inroad-making and railway construction. Ten thousand acres of land have been taken up in Hyde within a radius of 7 miles. There are four blocks of 2,000 acres each within 3 miles of Hyde, and there is a block of 4,000 acres about to be settled. A petition has been sent to the Government, signed by twenty-five bond fide intending settlers, who have guaranteed to take up the full complement of 320 acres each. All the persons now holding land are working it more or less. Some of them have only lately occupied it. There arc twenty-five men who have about two-thirds of their total number of acres under cultivation —that would be the minimum number ; and their holdings are within a radius of 4 miles of this township. There are twenty-five other persons ready to occupy the land as soon as it is thrown open. We have had extreme difficulty in getting any land here at all, from the fact of 40,000 acres having been set aside as a Dunedin high-school reserve. On the other side there is a railway reserve. The 4,000 acres for which we petitioned were already granted to us, and the Government went to the expense of having the land surveyed. From what the Hon. Mr. Uolleston stated during his visit to the district, we are now likely to get the land. The reserve of 40,000 acres takes in the most fertile belt of the Strath-Taieri, on the western bank of the river. The proceeds of that land would not go into the public treasury. The prevailing impression is that the squatters had it alienated from settlement so that they might get a more convenient way of leasing their runs. The entire agricultural settlement of Hyde has taken place within the last five years. It had been previously noted as a mining township. Through the want of natural water-supply, its mining resources have remained in a measure untested. There has been no land thrown open for the last two years and a half, with the exception of some sections that were in the hands of "dummies." These sections have been cancelled, and other persons have taken them tip within the last ten months. The people of the district are mainly employed as miners, carriers, and storekeepers. 797. Mr. Laverty.'] The settlers have been able to supply the people of the district with produce. As time goes on the people living in the Maniototo Plains and the Naseby District will be able to supply themselves. The settlers in this district can produce more than sufficient to supply the local market; in fact, they have to curtail their grain crops, inasmuch as they cannot get rid of the produce. Wheat is our staple produce. The climate is better adapted for growing wheat than oats. The average yield of wheat has been fifty-five bushels per acre. I have known the yield to be as low as twenty-five bushels per acre. When the land has had fair play, in the way of proper tillage, the yield of wheat has been very satisfactory. The wheat grown here is considered better than any produced along the coast as far aa Timaru. It is said to be preferable to the wheat grown in any other district. The nearest mill is at Shag Valley, a distance of about 3-i miles from here. It wrould not pay us to cart the grain such a distance and then cart the flour back again. We could not profitably compete with those who had mills at their doors. We were too limited in our resources to erect a flour-mill. We were thinking of putting up a mill at Maniototo. Steps are being taken to organize a company for the erection of a flour and oatmeal mill in this district. We find that a mill in the Maniototo would not serve us, as it would be a considerable distance from us. The want of a railway is the chief drawback to settlement. The climate is everything that can be desired. From its dry, warm nature the soil is better adapted for growing wheat than other cereals. Root crops grow very well, especially potatoes and turnips. It has been stated that the turnips grown in Palmerston and other places are not to be compared with the turnips grown here for size and quality. I have sown them broadcast, and their average weight has been twenty-five pounds. Those who have holdings do a little dairy-farming, but none of them have gone into it as a special industry.
Palmekstok, Thubsday, 15th Apiul, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Mr. M. Pagan (Mayor) ; Councillors D. Munro, John McDonald, W. Little, R. H. Cathcart; Messrs. James Arkle, Joliu McKenzie, B. O'Neill, and T. M. Smith, waited upon the Commission. 798. Mr. Fagan made the following statement: Wo received a telegram from the Commissioners inviting us to meet them here on their arrival. We would first draw your attention to the passenger station, which is far from being adequate to the requirements of the place. There is a great amount of traffic to this station—probably more than to any other station in the interior of the country— because it is the depot for the interior. I believe it is only a fifth-class station. All descriptions of goods, including powder and dynamite, are put into the ladies' waiting-room until it suits the convenience of the carriers to take them away. The matter has been brought under the notice of the Minister for Public Works. The advisability of amalgamating the post office with the passenger station was suggested to that gentleman, and he undertook to see into it. If this suggestion were adopted it would leave an important Government reserve, which could be sold or let, and thus be a source of revenue to the Government. The necessity of extending the goods shed has been agitated for some time, but I am glad to say that improvement is being carried out in the shape of loop-lines, for which a contract has been let. A cattle-yard is also being provided. There is a necessity for having a crane here. It has been a very difficult matter for people to load the wagons with logs of timber or heavy goods without the assistance of a crane. We have written to the Government on the matter, and also to our member, Mr. George McLean, who promised to see about it; but nothing has yet been done. In the construction of this railway the Government took a portion of Ronaldsey Street, which is the main street. They found it necessary to use one-half of the street in the construction of the line, and made no provision on the other side for widening the street. The street was not at first formed to its full width, and there were two or three dangerous gullies in it. It is now in a dangerous state. The other day a cab was capsized a distance of 21) or 25 feet. Fortunately no one was killed, but several of the passengers were seriously injured. They threatened to bring an action against the Corporation, and the matter is not yet settled. The Corporation would like the Government to either widen the street or recompense them for doing so. With regard to the Waihemo branch line of railway, which has been partly constructed, Mr. Arkle will be able to give the Commission some information.
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799. Mr. Arkle made the following statement: This question of the railway has been frequently discussed here. The line is at present surveyed for about 9 miles. Whether that line will pay without a further extension I cannot say : I do not think' it will. If it were carried past the Coal Creek Station I have no doubt it would pay, as it would tap a new settlement. My own opinion is that the line, in order to tap the central basin of Otago, should have struck off from Palmerston, and gone by Macrae's Station and Moonlight, tapped the Taieri line there, and gone right up where the present line is going. All the consideration that line received was this : that Mr. Blair sent one of his assistants, who made a flying survey. His report was that there were no bridges or tunnels wanted. That line, after proceeding a distance of 4 miles from Palmerston, would have gone through Crown land for the remainder of the way, and it would have boon the easiest and cheapest line to construct to tap the great central basin of Otago. With regard to the extension of the present line, the best policy would be to carry it a few miles farther. The small piece of line that is constructed, or the extension at present proposed, will never pay. If the line were carried on to Luke's lam certain it would be a paying line. The line from here to Dunedin has been fearfully and wonderfully engineered; and that remark applies to the station arrangements at Palmerston. They shut up Sandy Street, and they closed xip Arkle Street; they leave a street between these two, and they force all the traffic through that street. The railway goods shed is on one side of the street, and the passenger station on the other. All the shunting has to be done between these two streets. Unless the greatest precaution is taken serious accidents will occur. There is no fencing, and the place is left entirely open. They are now constructing two sidings there, which will make the crossing still more dangerous, as there will then be five lines of rails. All the goods, minerals, &c, of the district, as far as the Dunstan, are continually shunted backwards and forwards at these sidings. I think this state of things ought to be remedied. With regard to the increased accommodation at the station, that matter will force itself upon the officials to such an extent that they will be bound to see to it. I should be in favour of constructing the line as surveyed, although Ido not think that extent of line will pay. The goods would be carried that distance both ways by the wagons. 800. Mr. ClarJc: Can you give any estimate of the amount of traffic between Palmerston and the corner of the road to Macrae's ? 801. Mr. Arkle : That information can be supplied from the goods department. 802. Mr. Clark ; If the line were continued to the junction of Macrae's road with the valley road, would not that force settlement on the land on the road to Macrae's very considerably when the land is thrown open ? 803. Mr. Arkle : It would have that tendency. The land there is not of very good quality. The line would certainly be a benefit. The leases of the land on that road are now about to terminate, so that that laud could be almost immediately thrown open for settlement. If the line were carried on to Waihemo it would throw open all the land to the left in the direction of Macrae's. 804. Mr. Wright: You have stated that the line, to open the central basin of Otago, should have gone in the direction of Moonlight Flat: do you know that part of the country ? 805. Mr. Arkle : I know that district very well. The country between the Taieri Flat and Moonlight Flat is rough table land, but thei'e are some good ridges. Mr. Oliver, an old provincial engineer, gave it as his opinion that the line should be taken in that direction as the only way to tap the interior of Otago. We sent a petition to that effect to the House of Representatives. The only result was that Mr. Blair did not think it worth while to survey it himself, but sent one of his staff', who made a flying survey. That was about the time the Strath-Taieri line was surveyed. It did not suit Dunedin. to take the line in the direction I have indicated, and, the matter never received the consideration it deserved. The line would, after the first 4 miles, go through Crown lauds, and would render them immensely valuable. You could have got to the Taieri River at less expense than by the present route. The report on the line was laid before Parliament in the session of 1878. 808. Mr. Wright: Do you know if any survey has been made through this valley to Naseby ? 807. Mr. Arkle : Yes, there has been a survey made; but the route lam speaking of would not follow the Shag Valley. The country from the Moonlight to the Taieri River is table land, and there is no engineering difficulty in the way. 808. Mr. WrigM : What is the class of goods for which you want a crane? 809. Mr. Fagan : Large girders and logs of timber. It is with great difficulty they can be loaded, and there is a great risk of accidents occurring. They do not form a portion of the regular traffic, but they are frequently brought here. We had an iron bridge to build at Hyde, and we had considerable difficulty iu getting the girders loaded. There are now some girders here which we cannot get loaded. With inspect to the land for settlement, I may state that if the Waihemo block of land were thrown open for settlement it would be readily taken up. Land was taken up there at very high prices ; but at present land, like everything else, is very much depressed. The agricultural land there would be taken up now at the reduced price of 80s. per acre. The land at Waihemo was open for sale on deferred payment eighteen months ago, and some of it fetched £17 an acre. The average price was over £10 per acre. That was found to be too high a price. The line referred to by Mr. Arkle would tap the Dunback Hundred, and it is all Crown land. Previous to the last session of the General Assembly the land was opened for sale on deferred payment; but it was not taken up, owing to the want of access to it, and the upset price then being £3 per acre. That was the minimum price. Had it been 30s. the land would in all probability have been taken up. If a railway had gone through it would probably have been taken up at £3 an acre. If the land were rendered accessible by roads there would be a great demand for it at 30s. an acre. 810. Mr. Clark : Would the proposed line to Waihemo form any part of the line you advocate striking at Taieri ? 811. Mr. Arkle : It would not form any part of the line excepting half a mile at the start. 812. Mr. James Smith made the following statement: The only objection Mr. Blair had to the line advocated by Mr. Arkle was that the elevation was too high for a railway, being over a thousand feet. He took into consideration the character of the good land there, but stated that it was not practicable to run a train over an elevation of a thousand feet,
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813. Mr. B. O'Neill made the following statement: I have been living on the course of the present line for the last five or six years, and I have a pretty good idea of the goods traffic on the road. I think it would be better to leave the line as it is and not extend it 7 miles farther. The road being level from Waihemo Station to Palmerston, the construction of a line of 8 or 9 miles would be of no use whatever to the district. When the carriers brought their goods so far, and the remainder of the road being level, they would not think it worth while to take them off their wagons. With regard to any land to be sold there, it is very rough, and Ido not think it would increase the traffic. Whenever the Strath-Taieri line is constructed, any wool coming down or goods going up country will go on to the Slrnth-Taieri line, and not be taken by the Waihemo lino. Not much of the goods passes along this road now ;it goes principally by Tuapeka. When the Strath-Taieri line is constructed it will render the Waihemo line useless. If the line is not constructed up the Green Valley there would be no traffic on the line to make it pay. There is very little farming carried on beyond the 9 miles. All the traffic from Macrae's Station would go to Hyde by the Strath-Taieri in preference to coming here. It would be a great waste of money to construct a line 7 or 8 miles along one of the best roads in the province. It would be better to leave the matter as it is until the country is in a better position to construct the line. lam not a resident near Green Valley : I reside outside this township. 814. Mr. Clark : Are the goods conveyed by carriers brought to Palmerston by train and then sent up country ? 815. Mr. 'O'Neill : Yes. 816. Mr. Clark : Then the grain and wool that would be sent down the Waihemo Valley would for the most part go on through to Oamaru or Dunediu ? 817. Mr. O'Neill: Yes. 818. Mr. Clark : Would the carriers prefer to load at the branch terminus rather than run their wagons parallel with the line of railway ? 819. Mr. O'Neill: No ; they would prefer to go on to Palmerston. 820. Mr. Wright: What quantity of goods would a ten-horse wagon carry ? 821. Mr. O'Neill: Fife tons. 822. Mr. Wright : What do they charge per ton from here to Nasebv ? 823. Mr. O'Neill: Three pounds per ton. 824. Mr. Wright: How many days are they performing the journey ? 825. Mr. O'Neill: Six days. That would be £2 10s. per day per team. 826. Mr. Wright: If a team saved a day on the round journey there would be a saving of £2 10s. ? 827. Mr. O'Neill: Yes, on five tons. It would be equivalent to a saving of 10s. per ton. 828. Mr. Wright: Do you think the railway could carry the goods at a charge of 10s. per ton over the 9 miles ? 829. Mr. O'Neill: I should think it could if it were kept going. 830. Mr. Wright: If they carried the goods at 2s. 6d. per ton there would be a saving of 7s. Gd. ? 831. Mr. O'Neill: Yes. 832. Mr. MeKenzie: I have attended here at the invitation of the Mayor. With regard to the Waihemo Railway, I wish you to understand that all the gentlemen present, with the exception of one or two, were originally opposed to the making of this railway. Most of them live in Palmerstou. Mr. O'Neill keeps a hotel near Palmerston, and was never in favour of the construction of this line. If I had known this morning that the Commissioners would be here I could have brought statistics to show that this railway will pay. I believe it will pay if constructed, even for the 9 miles. Of course it would be better if the line went farther on. 1 know that the construction of the railway is a matter of life or death to the settlers in the Waihemo District. Two years ago the settlers there purchased land at from £10 to £17 per acre, on the understanding that this railway would be made. It would be a serious matter for them if, after a certain portion of the line was made, the Government should not extend it. They would have a good claim against the Government for a refund of some of the money they paid for the land. A settler sending his team with a load of wheat from Waihemo down to the Palmerston Station has to make two days' journey—he has to keep his man and horses in Palmerston all night; whereas if the railway were constructed only 9 miles he could send his team to the railway station and return at night the same day, thus saving him a great expense. There is a large quantity of grain waiting to be sent to a port. It cannot be taken away for want of communication. I have 10,000 bushels of grain in the district, which I wish to get away. During the present year there were 10,000 bags of grain brought down this road. It was grown on virgin soil that had never been touched before. I have not the least doubt that the grain crops would increase year by year if a railway were constructed. The settlers in the Moonlight District are growing some crops, but it would not pay them to send the produce to market, considering the distance they would have to send it. When the StrathTaieri Hue is finished they will have the option of sending it by the Shag Valley Kailway or the StrathTaieri line. One end of the block will be nearer the Shag Valley line, and from the other end it will be nearer to go to the Strath-Taieri line. The want of accommodation at the Palmerston Eailway Station is caused by the up-country traffic. When the railway is made that traffic will go the full length of the railway. The large traffic at Palmerston will show that the railway will pay. A great portion of the goods that come to Palmerston go up country. 833. Mr. Clark: Is there a road which would strike in to the Green Valley from Macrae's if the line were made up to Sir ¥. Dillon Bell's station? 834. Mr. MeKenzie : There is a road, but it is a very bad one. This road, if improved, would bring the upper end of the Moonlight Block within 7 miles of the Waihemo line, if extended a distance of 15 miles from Palmerston, as at present surveyed. 835. Mr. Clark : What is the distance between Deep Dale and the junction of Macrae's road to the Waihemo Valley ? 836. Mr. MeKenzie: Between 12 and 13 miles. 837. Mr. Wright: The extension of the line from 9 miles to 15 miles up the valley would also shorten the cartage to Moonlight Flat by 5 or 6 miles.
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838. Mr. McKeneie : Yea; and it would open up Crown lands, tlie leases of which expire next year. The grade ot' that road would be easier than the present road. There are 2,000 acres of land under cultivation at Green Valley. There were 12,000 acres opened there, and it was all sold with the exception of two or three sections. This is the first year the settlers have been on it. If the people are able to hold out there will be more crops grown next year. They have paid so much for the land that every shilling they can save is a consideration. 839. The Chairman : Do I understand you to say that the settlers bought the land at auction at £10 to £17 per acre? 840. Mr. McKenzie : It was deferred-payment land, and the upset price was £3 per acre. The greater portion of it was sold at from £10 to £17 per acre. 841. Mr. Clark : Do you consider much of the Crown land between Macrae's and Waihemo, or on the road to Green Valley, available for growing wheat ? 842. Mr. McKenzie : No, not much of it. I think it is too high for wlieat-growing. It would do very well for grazing and for growing root crops and oats. The Waihemo Block is a wheat country. I never saw finer samples of wheat than was grown there. 843. Mr. Wright : "What is the extent of land available for growing wheat in the Waihemo Valley, the district that would feed this branch railway. 844. Mr. McKenzie : This line would be fed for 9 miles upwards. About 30,000 or 40,000 acres in the Waihemo would be available for growing wheat from a point 5 miles from Palmerston upwards. 845. Mr. Clark : In the event of the Waihemo line being opened for 18 miles, is there any available route between that point and Naseby so that the line might be extended and tap the Maniototo Plain. 846. Mr. Arkle : It could tap the Maniototo Plain by going straight on and keeping by the main line through to Kyeburn. All the land between the Waihemo line and Deep Dale Station would immediately become available. 847. Mr. Wright: Is the country between Green Valley and Kyeburu difficult country through which to construct a railway ? 848. Mr. Arkle : It is very rough, but not half so difficult as the country where they are making the Strath-Taieri Eailway.
Dunedin, Friday, 10th Apkil, 1880. Mr. J. P. Maitland, Chief Commissioner of Crown Lands, Otago, sworn and examined. 849. The Chairman.'] How long have you held your present office ? —Since December, 1876. 850. The Commission are anxious to obtain information as to what extent of Crown lands will be beneficially affected, directly or indirectly, by the construction of the Otago Central Railway by the route now proposed. In Mr. Macandrew's Public Works Statement for 1878 he says : " The Otago Central to Albert Town will pass almost entirely through Crown land, and open up the most valuable public estate in the colony. It will affect an area of 2,250,000 acres, all in the hands of the Crown." Will you be good enough to state whether you think that estimate is substantially a correct one? — The word "affect "is rather a wide term. The Otago Central Railway goes through the great bulk of the most valuable unsold land in this province. I cannot take it upon myself to answer the question unless you define more particularly what is meant by the word " affect." 851. We are trying to ascertain what is the extent of Crown lands which will be beneficially affected by the construction of this Central Railway. We wish to find out what was the exact meaning of Mr. Macandrew's estimate of 2,250,000 acres—whether or not it meant the entire area of land in the watershed through which the railway would pass, quite regardless of quality ; and generally to find out to what extent the public estate would really be benefited by the construction of this line ? — I have calculated the area of available land that will be sensibly affected by this line of railway. I begin from Outram up to Strath-Taieri, then the Maniototo Plains, the Ida Valley, the Manuherikia Valley, and the Upper Clutha Valley. I begin with the land between Eun 75 and Run 250, on both sides of the river. That includes what is left of Strath-Taieri. I estimate the area of available land there at 90,000 acres. I may say, in passing, that that includes 30,000 acres of an educational endowment on Run 79. It also includes one-third of a 40,000-acre secondary-education reserve. Of that land about ten per cent, is first-class. When I say " first-class land," of course I mean the best description of land that remains unsold at the present time. The remainder of the area of 90,000 acres which I have mentioned is second-class and inferior. The whole area of 90,000 acres would be fit for cultivation. Then, from Run 250 to the Taieri Lake there are 20,000 acres. I would call all that second-class land. The Maniototo Plains I estimate to contain 180,000 acres. Of that area I consider one-third is good, and the remainder second-class and inferior. In the Ida Valley there are about 70,000 acres, about one-third of which is first-class land, and the remainder second and third class. Then, in the Manuherikia Valley there are 95,000 acres still available. About one-tenth of that is good land, and the remainder second-class and inferior. In the Upper Clutha Valley there are about 50,000 acres. That is principally about Lakes Wanaka and Hawea. About 5,000 acres of that area is first-class land; the remainder is second-class and inferior. Some of it would be semi-pastoral. The major portion of it may be cultivated. That makes a total of 505,000 acres. I have estimated, approximately, the area of pastoral land along the line of the Otago Central Railway to be about 2,204,454 acres. The area of land alienated from the Crown along the line of the same railway is 105,723 acres. 852. Mr. £eid.~\ I know you have had a great deal of experience in farming. Would you consider that land suitable for growing all the cereal crops —wheat, oats, and barley ?—Yes. I have seen them all growing. 853. Does the land give a fair yield ? —I never saw a heavy crop there anywhere. The best of the land would yield a fair crop of any kind of cereal. Of course, where the soil is good enough the climate would suit for the growing of wheat. Still, as a general rule, in the interior the land would require
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to be held in pretty large areas in order to be used profitably for agriculture. It would have to be joined with grazing. Whenever the produce gets beyond the wants of the district, and has to be sent to the coast, it will have to be sent at a very heavy rate per bushel. Of course, settlers there could not well compete with settlers in the coast districts. 854, Mr. Wright.'] Is the information you have given us based on your own knowledge of the district, or upon reports furnished by District Surveyors? —I got the Chief Surveyor to assist me in making the estimate of the areas. It has more to do with the Survey Department than with mine. To be at all exact, I should have to get any information of that kind from the Survey Department. The estimate I have given is, I think, quite a fair one. 855. Do you know the character of the land on the east side of the Strath-Taieri, below Hyde ? —Yes. 85G. Is it not very broken on the east side ? —Yes. 857. What percentage of that is included in your estimate ? —I have said that it is all second-class land on the eastern side. That would be included in the area between Kim 250 and Taieri Lake. 858. That would comprise the slopes, I presume ?—Yes, lying between Hyde and Macrae's. That is all second-class land. It is a cold sort of country. 859. What proportion of that do you think would be ploughable ?—I do not know. The portion of this land which I have called first-class is land which I think may be profitably occupied for agricultural purposes. Only portions of the second-class land could be so occupied, and that kind of land would have to be taken up in large areas, and partly used for pasturage, in order to work it profitably. BGO. Mr. Clark.] I suppose that possibly the bulk of it would have to be used as pastoral land, and patches of it here and there for agriculture? —Yes, possibly. It is a cold, exposed bit of land; but if you went over the ridges you would find them pretty flat, and a considerable portion ploughable. 861. Mr. Wright.] Generally speaking, is the second-class land you have included broken land and pastoral land ? —The most broken portion is included in the second class, and some of it might be called semi-pastoral. 862. Mr. Reid.] I understand you mean that the second-class land could be ploughed ?—The great bulk of the total area of 505,000 acres could be ploughed ; but whether profitably or not is a question. As far as the physical features go the land can be ploughed ; but I do not know whether it would yield a sufficient return to pay. 863. Mr. Wright.] Is it the class of land you would choose yourself for agriculture?—No ; certainly I would not. I would be very sorry to go into agricultural farming in the interior. Ido not think that the interior of this province, except in patches here and there, is at all well-suited for profitable agriculture. I have stated that the proportion of first-class land in most places is one-tenth. Even that is only a relative term. If you compare it with the coast land it is vastly inferior ; but it is quite cultivable, and will, I believe, be taken up and occupied, because we have seen in the past that land which was not considered fit for agriculture at one time has been afterwards taken up and occupied profitably. Mr. Chables Y. O'Connob, Assistant Engineer in Charge, Middle Island, sworn and examined. 86-1. The Chairman.] Were you not District Engineer in Westland and the southern part of Nelson Province for some years ?—Yes, from Ngakawau down to Jackson's Bay. 865. Mr. Wrir/ht.] Will you inform the Commission as to where the land best suited for settlement exists in the District of Westland? —Along all the river-beds to perhaps the extent of half a mile the land is generally pretty easily cleared, but it is liable to be inundated. That generally applies to all the rivers. In addition to that the best of the flat land is south of Hokitika —between Hokitika and Boss. There are about 12 miles by 2 miles of moderately flat land there. You do not get into any hills which you could not plough until you go back a couple of miles or so. From Eoss down to Okarito there are about 40 miles by 5 miles of good land if it were cleared. At present it is all covered with timber. All the land in the province, you may say, is covered with timber. 866. What is the character of the country between Brunnerton and the proposed point of junction of the Oxford and Brunnerton Eailway with the West Coast road ? — For about 12 miles the line goes through heavy timber land, which is comparatively flat; then for about 6or 8 miles the line goes along a steep hill-side, and it is bounded on the other side by Lake Brunner. Prom Lake Brunner to Teremakau the country is a large open paddock. Its extreme length is 8 miles, and it varies from a mile to 2 miles in width. The most of that land has been sold. Then the line gets into the Teremakau River bed, along which there is a half-mile width of flat land. The line then begins to get into the mountains. From Greymouth to Okarito there might be altogether about 60 miles by 5 miles of land fit for the plough if it were cleared. The spur land might be cultivated afterwards, but it would not be good arable land. 867. Can you state approximately the distance by the route selected for the East and West Coast line from the Waimakariri Gorge to Brunnerton ? —About 95 miles. 868. Are you acquainted with the railway over the Eimutaka ?—Yes. 869. How much of this projected line from the Waimakariri Gorge to Brunnerton would be of the same character as the Eimutaka line—l mean, how many of the 95 miles would be of the same heavy character as the Eimutaka line ? —About 40 miles of the line would go through mountainous country, but a large proportion of this would be through the valleys of the rivers, not involving heavy cuttings or gradients. 870. Mr. Clark.] If the question has reference to the extent of available land along the line, it would not matter whether the line went along the valleys of the rivers or the sides of the mountains ? —No ; but from the point of view of the cost of construction it would be of importance. In the 40 miles I include all the valley of the Teremakau. With regard to the question of cost, I think there would be about 16 miles of the line which would be of the same character as the Eimutaka line. 871. Mr. Wright.] The 16 miles you refer to would be from the Teremakau across the dividing range ? —From the foot of the Otira to the foot of the Bealey, or, in other words, from the Teremakau to the Bealey Junction. 7—E. 3.
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872. Do you consider that the line from the Bealey Junction, through the Waimakariri Gorge, would be of the same character as the Rimutaka line? —It would not be of the same character, but I think it would be equally expensive. There is some very difficult bridging there. There are about four gullies in the Waimakariri Gorge which run from 100 to 400 feet in depth, and from about 200 to 600 feet in width. 873. Mr. Clarlc.~\ What is the quantity of land fit for settlement on the proposed line of railway between Hokitika and Greymouth ? —I should say 20 miles by 2 miles —that is, about 25,000 acres. 874. Do you think there would be any traffic between Hokitika and Greymouth, apart from the traffic which the country along the line would give ? —lf the harbour proposed to be made at Greymouth turns out a success, no doubt the whole importation for Hokitika and southwards would go through Grevinouth. As it stands at present, it is frequently the case that one of these harbours is capable of being worked when the other is not, and then they would alternate. If they had a railway, a steamer could take its choice as to which port it would enter. 875. "What is the estimated cost of the Greymouth and Hokitika line ?—About £200,000 by the beach route, and £300,000 \>j the Kumara route. 876. Mr. Wrig%t.~\ What was the time devoted to the survey of the section of the line between Bealey and Teremakau ? —There was a survey made of the Taipo Pass by Mr. Campbell nearly three years ago. That was when Mr. Carruthers was here. And of course there was the road survey of the Arthur Pass. There was also another survey made last year —that was since Mr. Blair and I were there—namely, the survey of the Poulter Pass. There was a survey made of the Browning Pass some years before. 877. Are there any reports accompanying these surveys ? —Yes; a report accompanied Mr. Campbell's survey, and also the survey of Poulter's Pass and Browning's Pass. They can be obtained at Hokitika. Mr. Alexander Geant sworn and examined. 878. The Chair man.l You are General Manager here? —I am designated General Manager, but the duties I discharge are those of Traffic Manager. 879. Have you held the office any length of time ?—I have been five years Traffic Manager here. When the Commissioner went to Christchurcb, in order to comply with the provisions of the Act I was gazetted General Manager. 880. Mr. Wright.'] The New Zealand railways, as you are aware, are not very profitable at present —that is to say, a very large percentage of the receipts is swallowed up in the working expenses: can you make any suggestions by which the railways may be worked more economically, either by striking off trains that are unprofitable, attaching a passenger carriage to goods trains, reducing the number of: officials, or in any other way ? —As far as the section of which I have charge is concerned, I have all through made it a point to reduce the expenditure to the very lowest. Lately I asked and obtained permission to dispense with some of the trains. The expenses have thereby been very considerably reduced. Ido not think at the present moment I could dispense with a single train without injuring the passenger traffic. Of course there is a certain medium which we must adhere to in order to secure this traffic. The passenger traffic is the most profitable, and a certain amount of facility must be given; otherwise people will not travel. Then with regard to live stock, I believe if greater facilities were given for the loading and carrying of live stock, our traffic would bo very much increased. Hitherto live stock has been driven along the roads very cheaply ; and unless the people get facilities for loading they will not divert from the old way. I am glad to say this traffic is increasing, and that wherever we have got accommodation advantage has been taken of it. I would suggest that at every station where there is a station-master or officer in charge there should be sheep-loiiding banks and other accommodation for the loading and unloading of live stock. It would enhance the receipts considerably. The only expense connected with, this description of traffic is the haulage, as the loading and unloading is done by the people themselves. In reference to the passenger tickets, we have now got return tickets and single tickets, and single tickets issued on Saturdays are available for return on Mondays. I believe if return tickets were abolished altogether, except on Saturdays, and the single fares reduced to one-half the price of the present return ticket, it would increase the traffic and induce people to travel. I would suggest that the Saturday tickets as now issued should remain unaltered in price, but that a return ticket be given instead; single tickets being also issued at ordinary fares. The Saturday return would thus be one-third in price above the single ticket. My reason is this: It has come under my notice on several occasions that people will take Saturday return tickets, whether they intend to return or not; and I have been told that ill-disposed persons have sold these tickets to others at a reduction, so that the revenue has thereby been defrauded. If single tickets were issued on Saturdays, people who did not intend to return would take them ; if they did return, they would of course purchase the return tickets. I believe that a good deal of revenue is lost by the means I have stated, through persons selling the return tickets. At present my Saturday tickets are issued at single fares, and these tickets are available for return on Monday. I would keep the Saturday fares as at present. I would make no return tickets on the first five days of the week: I would make the tickets single, and issue them at a reduced rate. 881. Mr. Reid.~\ Would that prevent persons using the return ticket on Monday morning? —No one would buy a return ticket unless he wanted to return. On Saturday the ticket to Oamaru, say, is 15s. If the passenger did not want to come back, he would take the ordinary single ticket on that day. I would charge the reduced rate for single fare on Saturday, and the present rate for return. 882. Mr. Olark.~\ If a person going on a journey wanted a single ticket, how would you deal with him ? —Give him the ordinary single ticket, which is lower than the Saturday ticket. 883. If a man gets a return ticket on Saturday for a single fare, the price is the same as if he took a single ticket?—lt would be higher than is charged-for a single ticket on an ordinary day. 884. Mr. Wright.~\ Do you not think the traffic would gain if there were no Saturday tickets ? —No ; I believe it has been a great success. I was Traffic Manager here before the system was inaugurated, and I can say I believe it has been a great success.
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885. Has not your observation shown you that the Friday trains are comparatively empty ?—No ; as far as my section is concerned. We have carried IGO,OOO passengers during the last nine months over the number carried during the corresponding months of last year. 886. That may be due to an extension of the lines, or an increase of population. Did the system of issuing return tickets at single fares only come into operation nine months ago ? —-No ; it dates four or five years back. 887. Then any change that has taken place during the last nine months is not due to a change in the price of tickets ? —No, it is not. I do not think that the issuing of tickets on Saturday at cheap rates has affected the traffic on other days of the week. I believe the issuing of cheap tickets on Saturday has enhanced the traffic considerably. 888. You spoke of having recommended the striking-off of certain trains on this section?—Tes. 889. "Was that recommendation spontaneous on your part, or was it in consequence of a circular calling for reductions ?—No. I had been making observations for months before I got any instructions. I had been taking notes of the number of trains and the number of passengers. I was then asked to make suggestions, and I recommended the doing-away with express trains and some other trains, and the recommendation was acted upon. 890. Tour experience having shown you that these trains were running at a loss ? —Yes. I took a note of the various stations along the line, and the number of passengers by all trains passing each station for some six mouths prior to any suggestion being made as to their being discontinued. I was thus in a position to state distinctly what each train was doing before I recommended that it should be knocked off. 891. And you think the reductions have now been carried as far as it is practicable to carry them without injury to the revenue? —Yes, I honestly believe so. I should not run a single train now that I could do without, because it is to my advantage to work my section as cheaply as I can. 892. In what way is it to your advantage to work the section cheaply ? Have you any pecuniary advantage in it ? —I have no pecuniary interest in doing so, but I wish to make my section bear favourable comparison with others. 893. Mr. Clark.] In suggesting Ihe doing-away with the return tickets for five days of the week, and making the single tickets one-half the price of the return tickets, that would cause a considerable reduction on the receipts for passenger traffic unless the passengers were increased ? —Yes ; but I believe they would increase. 894. It would make a difference of about 10 per cent. ? —lt makes that difference, I believe, according to the present figures. It would be cheaper for the department to issue these tickets. They would only have one class of tickets, and that would save a great deal in stationery; it would also simplify our work very much; it would also simplify the check on tickets. There could be very little fraud practised if every person had his single ticket. 895. You consider the increase in traffic, with these slight advantages, would more than compensate for the reduction in the fares ? —I do believe it would. 89G. 3lr. Wright.] In other words, the reduction in price would increase the number of persons travelling 25 per cent. ? —I should like to give a little consideration to that question before answering it. I prefer furnishing the Commission with the exact figures.* I could not say exactly how much the
* Q-ENTLEMEN", —I hare the honor to inform you, with reference to your inquiries this afternoon, that the number of tickets sold on the Amberley-Kingston line for the nine months ending 31st ultimo, was as follows: — Ordinary single tickets ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 502,221 Saturday ditto ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 261,016 Return tickets (each reckoned as two) ... ... ... ... ... 550,046 Total ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,313,283 Taking these numbers, for the sake of calculation, as representing one-mile journeys, each at present second-class fare—viz., 2d.—they will represent a sum of £9,798 2s. If the present system of return fares was abolished altogether, and the single fares reduced 25 per cent. — i.e., to 2id. first-class, and l^d. second-class per mile—and Saturday return tickets issued at the present single fares, or one-third above the proposed single fares (3d. first-cliss, and 2d. second-class), the number of passengers required to travel would be 1,480,691, or an increase of about 12J- per cent, on the present number. The increase in the number of passengers which would result from the reduction of the single fares would, I feel confident, exceed this. Prom one cause alone —viz., the prevention of a fraudulent use of Saturday single tickets (which are at present available on Mondays) —a large portion of the required increase would be obtained. One source of hindrance to increase of the revenue of the department heretofore has been the numerous services performed free of charge for the other departments. Amongst these sertices may be mentioned the conveyance of Her Majesty's mails. Up till very recently no payment whatever has been made by the Postal Department to the Railway Department in respect of this item ; but at present a charge of 3s. per mile is allowed when special trains are run with the mails. This charge is insufficient and should be increased, and the mails should also be paid for when forwarded by ordinary trains. This service is always paid for when performed by private railways, and the New Zealand Railway Department cannot be expected to compare favourably with such railways when work of this kind is done without proper remuneration. Other services are the conveyance of Constabulary and otllcei's of other public departments free of charge by means of free passes. lam of opinion that all such free passes should be paid for by the departments on whose authority they are issued ; and this would also assist the receipts of this department to bear more favourable comparison than they do at present with those of other railways. I think, also, the issue of popular excursion tickets at cheap rates during the summer months to favourite wateringplaces would have a great tendency to encourage travelling on the part of the public, and would considerably enhance the receipts. As Btated in my evidence before you to-day, the Harbour Board make a charge of Is. per ton on all goods imported and landed at the railway wharf at Port Chalmers. On this charge the Railway Department derive no benefit whatever; whereas its imposition enables the lighters to successfully compete with it for the cargo of Home and other ships, which are therefore unloaded in the stream. If this charge could be abolished, the lighters would be unable to compete, and a large quantity of goods which is now carried by water to Dunedin could be brought by rail, with only a nominal increase in the expenditure. I think the expenses of the Railway Department, and of the public service generally, would be diminished if station-masters were also appointed postmasters and officers in charge of public telegraph offices, in addition to their present duties, a portion of their salary being contributed by each of the two departments concerned—namely, the Postal and the Telegraph. There would thus be a reduction of the amount paid by this department to the station-masters ; and the arrangement would also lessen considerably the expenses of the Telegraph and Postal Departments at such places as Clinton, Balclutha, Lawrence, Milton, Outram, Mosgiel, Waikouaiti, and Palrnerston, on my section. —A. GbANT. —16th April, 1880.
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reduction would enhance the receipts. lam only giving you my opinion. It would prevent fraud, aud it would be a saving to the department in stationery and printing. At present we have got four sets of tickets for every station in New Zealand ; every station books to the others. If there were only single tickets, the number of tickets would be very much reduced on the first and second class. 897. Mr. Clark.] What proportion do the return tickets bear to the single tickets, leaving out Saturdays?—About one-half less return tickets. There is another matter which has retarded us very much in our working, and has been expensive—that is, the want of station-accommodation. I believe that I could work the traffic very much cheaper in Dunedin if I had suitable accommodation. Until a few months ago wo had had no increase in this respect for the last five years. The accommodation we had until last grain season was the same we had for the old Port Chalmers line. When I bring in a long train I have sometimes to break it into two or three, so as to fit into the various sidings at Dunedin, which are laid out on a very inadequate triangular piece of ground. The portions of the train have to be shunted on the main line and arranged, which is a most dangerous practice. In Ohristchurch, aud also at Home, where I have had to work the traffic before, trains go into the sidings, and are at rest at once. Here we have to shunt about the wagons five, six, and sometimes a dozen times before they can be discharged. 898. Mr. Wright.] The accommodation you want is increased siding-room and a better arrangement of the yard ?—Yes. 899. As regards goods sheds, are you fairly provided?—We are pretty well accommodated with goods sheds. About six months ago Mr. Blair increased our shed-accommodation, and also laid down some sidings. The expense of shunting is very great. I have to keep shunting during the twenty-four hours, night and day. I have two sets of engines and two sets of men constantly employed shunting. If I had proper accommodation I would not require that number. There is often delay in traffic owing to the want of accommodation. I have never less than sixteen wagons for Pelichet Bay Station, which should go in there. They have to be taken up to Dunedin and taken back again. If a siding is full, we have to take the first that comes, and sometimes wagons are kept five or six days before people can get at their goods. At Clinton and Palmerston and other stations, in order to meet the traffic, I have to order wagons to Bushy Station on one side and Goodwood on the other, for instance. That is now being rectified at Palmerston. There is another thing that would increase the traffic very much at Port Chalmers, and that is wharf-accommodation. The Commissioner and myself have been doing our utmost to get the Harbour Board to dredge alongside the pier. Many ships .ire discharged in the stream the cargoes of which would come by rail if the dredging were carried out. The reason given is that there is not sufficient depth of water alongside the pier. 900. And the Harbour Board refused to dredge out berths for the vessels ?—They have promised to do so for the last four or five years, but nothing has been done up to the present. 901. Is it not the object of the Harbour Board to get the ships up to Dunedin ?—Tes. In my opinion they are fighting against the railway interests. We are building new wharves, and a new wharf will be completed in three months ; but, without dredging is carried on, the wharf will be perfectly useless, as the ships cannot go alongside it. 902. Do you know how long it would take them to dredge the way in to the wharf? —It would take six months to dredge an approach to the wharves with their present appliances, which are not much. The wharves are built and maintained by us. We officer the wharves, and yet they charge us Is. a ton for all goods discharged at that pier. They will not expend a sixpence towards maintaining the wharf or working it. We have got every facility at the goods wharf to take up goods to Dunediu, but they will not dredge the approach for us. The Railway Department bears the expense of maintaining the wharf and employing officers for it, and the Harbour Board charge Is. a ton on all goods landed, and 6d. on all goods exported. The Commission received a deputation from the Chamber of Commerce, consisting of Messrs. E. B. Cargill (Chairman), J. S. Webb (Secretary), R. Wilson, J. T. Mackerras, and G-. C. Matheson. 903. Mr. Cargill said: The members of the committee of the Chamber of Commerce, Dunedin, wish to take an opportunity of bringing before the Commission some matters connected with the subject you are investigating, which will be explained to the Commission by Mr. Webb, Secretary to the Chamber. 904. Mr. Webb made the following statement: I think the point upon which members of the Chamber are most exercised at the present moment is the future of the Otago Central Railway, generally known as the Strath-Taieri Railway. Very strong representations were made to the Government and Parliament when this railway was determined upon by the mercantile community of Dunedin, both with regard to the character of the line and the land which it would open up. Of*late some very strong statements have been made—some publicly and a great many privately —which have no doubt come to the ears of the Commission and the Government, against the propriety of constructing this line, or of carrying it any farther than it is now being carried. On both sides of the question feelings are very strong; and the feeling of the committee of the Chamber and of the mercantile community here is one of great anxiety that you, as a Commission, should most carefully investigate the question, and especially that you should see the country through which it is proposed the line should run. The statements that have been made are against thu expense of the line in proportion to the results of opening the country. Seeing that the statements made are so diametricallv opposed, and that the mercantile community of Dunedin committed themselves to such very strong representations a few years ago, before the line was decided upon, no one, whatever his views may be, can feel any satisfaction in regard to the ultimate decision of this Commission unless the Commissioners actually inspect the country. The committee of the Chamber have learned with regret that the course of your journey downwards from the interior of the country has not led, you through the disputed country, as I may call it; and I believe that, although members of the committee entertain diametrically opposite opinions as to the propriety of the line, they are on both sides equally anxious that you should be fortified by actual knowledge of the facts, obtained by personal inspection, before you make any recommendations to the Government in regard to this particular line.
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I would ask if the Commissioners have had before them the documents which were laid before Government and Parliament by a committee of citizens of Dunedin, and of settlers in the interior, in connection with this railway ? 905. The Chairman: We have not yet considered them ; but before agreeing to a report on this line, or any other, all such documents will be carefully gone into. 906. Mr. Webb : Is it within the bounds of possibility for the Commissioners to see the country regarding which so many conflicting statements have been made? 907. Mr. Wright: The Commissioners have seen the whole course of the Otago Central .Railway down as far as Main's Station, in the Taieri Valley, and a short distance below that. That is 10 miles below Hyde. We have not seen the lower part of the Strath-Taieri, nor the Taieri Gorge. 908. Mr. Webb : It is exactly the Taieri Gorge with regard to which very strong statements have been put forward. The mercantile community of Dunedin are extremely anxious that those statements should not influence the minds of the Commissioners unless they have satisfied themselves that the statements to the contrary are incorrect. The committee would like the Commissioners to see the Taieri Gorge. 909. Mr. Clark: Have the conflicting statements you have referred to been made regarding the difficulty of carrying out the work or regarding the value of the lands which the proposed line will open up ? 910. Mr. Wehb : I believe conflicting statements have been made on both points. 911. Mr. Clark: As regards the cost of the work, of course the estimates prepared by the department give certain information, and perhaps even better information than what is afforded by the cost of the work which has already been carried out. 912. Mr. TVebh: I am not personally acquainted with this particular part of the route, and therefore lam not able to express an opinion. I merely wish to represent to the Commission the anxiety that exists at present in the minds of men in Dunedin, not only among those who doubt the propriety of constructing the line, but also among the very much larger number who are extremely anxious to see it constructed. 913. Mr. Mackerras: I was a member of the original Otago Central Railway Committee, and that Committee collected information on the subject, both as to the practicability of the route proposed and the land which would be opened up by that route. A great deal of information was obtained by that Committee and laid before Parliament. At the present moment we are in the unfortunate position that the secretary and chairman of that Committee are both absent from town, and the documents in the possession of the Committee are not available. I therefore think it desirable that, before any decision is arrived at by the Commission, the members of that original Committee should be allowed to make a statement to the Commissioners. If we cannot make such a statement personally, we can send in a written statement. This is the first time I have heard of the difficulties and the great differences of opinion which are said to exist in connection with this subject. 1 did hear it stated at last meeting of the Chamber of Commerce lhat the line was never traversed by any person in authority. Now, this Railway Committee had before it not only the report of Mr. Blair, Engineer in Charge, Middle Island, but also the report of at least one other surveyor, who travelled the whole course of the line, and who gave us estimates of cost and of the value and character of the land which the line would pass through and open up. We had also that information from Mr. Arthur, Chief Surveyor of this district, aud from Mr. Me lierrow, now Surveyor-General. The report of the Committee was based upon the information given by those surveyors. We have had no meeting to arrange among ourselves how this matter should be brought before the Commission, and I feel somewhat astonished at the statements made by Mr. Webb as to the great diversity of opinion on this subject. It was generally admitted that the information obtained by the Railway Committee was reliable, and that the line was a desirable one to construct. I have looked over the report of the Select Committee of the Provincial Council in 1873 as to the traffic and paying prospects of this line, and I have also looked over the report of the Committee of the House of Representatives in 1877. 1 find that those reports are very strongly in favour of the Strath-Taieri Railway. My conception of the question is, that we should urge upon the Commissioners that no unnecessary delay should take place in the carrying-out of this work, which has already been proved to be of great importance. 914. The Chairman : As the committee of the Chamber of Commerce have not made very full arrangements as to the way in which they should bring this matter before the Commission, I think it would be better, unless there is new matter to be introduced, not to go further at present; but if the committee of the Chamber of Commerce will furnish the Commission with a full report of their own view of the question, accompanied by any documentary evidence they are in possession of, and any statistics favourable to their view, the Commissioners will be very glad to receive them. 915. Mr. Cargill: The action referred to by Mr. Mackerras emanated from persons interested in the communication between Dunedin and the interior, and not from the Chamber of Commerce. The committee of the Chamber of Commerce have not had this matter distinctly under their consideration, not having materials before them for entering upon a discussion of the sort. Of course the judicious selection of a line of communication with the interior by means of a railway is recognized as a matter of very great importance, and it is also recognized that tiiis work which has been commenced is one of great magnitude, the failure of which upon any point would be a very serious disaster for the whole communit}'. I am not myself personally cognizant of the merits of this discussion—l was not in Dunedin at the time the agitation was got up in favour of this railway; but it is unquestionably true that it has been reported by many competent persons who are resident in the neighbourhood and intimately acquainted with the country, that the choice of the line for this railway is of very doubtful wisdom, and may prove very difficult to carry into effect. As regards the difficulty of construction, it has been stated that the difficulties of constructing the next section from Mullocky Gully onwards are of an almost insuperable character, and these statements are accompanied by a belief that that particular part of the line has not had the minute investigation by scientific officers of the Government which it should have had before being determined upon. That is such a very important statement that I think any one who has the
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opportunity of bringing it before the Commission would feel anxiety if he did not repeat it in order to have it thoroughly inquired into. I do not think that Mr. Arthur has been through that part of the Gorge. If the Commission inquire, I think they will find that to be the case. I do not know whether the Engineer in charge of the Middle Island has been through that part of the Q-o'rge, but I rather think he has not. lam aware that a survey lias been made, and one statement I have heard is that one of the surveyors alleges that the difficulties are of enormous magnitude, and that they will involve an expenditure beyond what would be justified in the construction ol: that portion of the railway. These difficulties are connected with che section immediately succeeding the one now being constructed. Ido not know that anything has been said about great difficulties in connection with the other parts of the line. The part of the line which the Commission have had an opportunity of looking at is a long way above the section I allude to. The other point upon which there has been considerable divergence of statement is as to the extent of land available for settlement which this line would tap, and whether it will really open up any extent of country which will attract population proportionate to the magnitude of the expenditure required for the railway. Very strong statements have been made on one side and the other. No doubt many of us are very anxious to see a thoroughly good means of communication opened up with the interior ; but there are others who think this may be done at too great a cost. As regards the committee of the Chamber of Commerce, I may say that no conclusion has been come to by the committee. The matter has scarcely been discussed by them. It has been before the committee, and it was simply resolved that the committee should take an opportunity of bringing the matter under the notice of the Commission. Ido not know that as a committee of the Chamber of Commerce we can do much more than that, as we do not ourselves possess the necessary information. For my own part I quite agree with what has been stated by Mr. Webb that the allegations are of sufficient importance to justify us in suggesting that a very careful inquiry should be made by the Commission into the merits of the line, and as to the advisability of constructing it by the present route before coming to a decision on the matter. 916. Mr. Made err as: I am so staggered at the statements made by Mr. Cargill that I wish to take an opportunity of showing that Mr. Cargill is in error or has been misinformed. I would like to read the following extract from the report of the Committee of the House of Representatives on this railway in 1877 : — The line via Strath-Taieri commands the largest quantity of Crown lands available for settlement, presents the fewest engineering difficulties, passes entirely through Crown lands, and has the great advantage of being the nearest and most direct line from the interior to Dunedin. It has been shown in evidence that this line will directly open 1,200,000 acres of Crown lands, of which it has been variously estimated that from 400,000 to 500,000 acres are immediately adapted for agriculture. In addition, it affords railway communication for 1,065,000 acres of land above Cromwell, which is the natural outlet for all the trnffic of the basin of the Clutha Hiver and the Hawea and Wanaka Lakes. The line possesses the further recommendation of having been selected by Mr. Blair, the District Engineer, after a personal inspection of the several proposed routes, as the best in an engineering and economical point of view ; and Mr. Blair's opinions are fully sustained by the evidence given before your Committee by the Surveyor-General, Mr. Thomson ; the Assistant SurveyorGeneral, Mr. McKerrow ; Mr. Roberts, merchant, of Dunediu ; the Hon. the Minister of Lands ; and the Hon. Sir P. Dillon Bell. That is sufficient to show that the line has not been hastily adopted. All that Mr. Cargill recommends to be done was done during his absence from this place. 917. Mr, Wright: Speaking for myself as a member of the Commission, I may say that the statements made in that report are certainly not borne out by the facts. The difficulties appear to be very much under-estimated, and the quantity of land available for settlement grossly over-stated. Instead of there being half a million acres fit for agriculture, the whole extent of the land available for agricultural settlement is limited to something like 100,000 to 200,000 acres —that is, land which men can cultivate, and live by the process. As regards the estimate for the work, the Commissioners are quite alive to the fact that no reliable survey or estimate has yet Been prepared, inasmuch as the working surveys are only now in hand, and are very far from being complete. The estimates hitherto furnished have been simply assumptions. The estimates were based on the general character of the line, and the cost of works in other parts of the colony ; and it has come within our knowledge that some of the railways recommended have not been seen by the Engineer in Charge, Middle Island. Therefore, at this moment I am disposed to take Mr. Cargill's view of the matter, and to think that much fuller inquiry should be made. 918. Mr. Cargill: It must be understood that I am not making any assertions on this subject. I have carefully avoided doing so. I have stated very plainly that I am personally ignorant of the subject; but of course I hear what is said by others, and I form my own conclusions as to the credibility of those from whom the information comes. I simply wish to have this doubt which lies over a great deal of what is proposed thoroughly cleared up. I shall be happy if that doubt is cleared away, and this line shown to be in every respect what it has been represented. 919. Mr. Wilson .- I presume the Commission have power to examine Government officials, and in that case it will bo very easy to examine Mr. Arthur and Mr. McKerrow, in order to find out if they have made those surveys and calculations. 920. The Chairman: The Commission have full power to examine Government officials, and undoubtedly they will do so in reference to every line—this one amongst the number —which they take into consideration. 921. Mr. Clark: That will be done both as regards the estimated cost of the lines, and the quantity, value, and description of the land opened by those lines. I would like to allude to the statement made by one member of the deputation, that unless the remainder of the ground was gone over by the Commission no confidence could be placed in our report. I think that when the deputation has got further information regarding the extent of the line actually gone over by the Commission that statement will be somewhat modified. Having examined a certain portion of the Strath-Taieri plain, within 20 miles of the Gorge, evidence can be got regarding the portion of the land unvisited as compared with the portions seen by the Commission, sufficiently exact to enable us to form a correct opinion.
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922. Mr. Maflieson : The report presented to Parliament should certainly be worth something. The report of the Parliamentary Committee states that the railway presents a favourable aspect, and that there appears to be no engineering difficulty. 923. Mr. Gargill: I have no hesitation in stating my belief that the report presented to Parliament was a very highly-coloured report. We all know here that there have been very strong statements made on one side and another with regard to the character of land in various districts through which it was proposed to carry roads or railways. For a report of that sort to have any value it would be necessary to see upon whose evidence each particular statement rested. lam quite sure that there are gentlemen to be found here in the public service in whom the Commission may place everv confidence. Those gentlemen might bo asked to furnish a report on any of the points that have been raised. lam at a loss to see what possible harm can result from clearing away any doubts that may have been raised on this subject. It is not necessary to travel a very great distance or to incur any great difficulty in order to make minute investigation of all that country. With respect to the remark made by one member of the Commission with regard to the Commissioners not having seen every part of the line, of course I would not presume to suggest what might be necessary in that respect, but the whole Commission might very well pass through any extent of country without gathering a great deal of information about its capabilities except with the aid of residents or persons having an intimate knowledge of the country. With regard to the report submitted to the House of Representatives, we know that the statements made before Committees of Parliament —very many of them by members from the interior who are anxious to see works undertaken —are not always of the most reliable character. 924. Mr. Webh : As I have taken the liberty of expressing the strong feeling which I know exists that the Commission should investigate this question, I may be permitted to say that, while I do not venture to suggest that it is absolutely necessary for the Commissioners to inspect all the country with their own eyes, I would urge that, considering it will be a most exasperating and vexatious thing to a vast number of people in this town and the interior if the Commissioners should find themselves obliged to recommend that progress on this work should be stopped, they should not lightly accept any statements without thoroughly probing them. 925. The Chairman : The communication you have made to us now, and any further information you may send in writing, will receive the very fullest attention from the Commission before we frame our report. We are glad to have had this opportunity of hearing from you what a large amount of interest is felt in this line; and the fact that there is a considerable conflict of opinion on the subject will make us very much more careful to investigate the whole matter in order to arrive at a sound conclusion. Further than that, we are not prepared at present to say anything.
Ditnedin, Satuedat, 17th Apeil, 1880. A deputation from the Shag Point Coal Company, consisting o£ Mr. F. D. Rich, directoi", and Mr. • W. H. Williams, mannger, waited upon the Commission. 926. Mr. Rich made the following statement: In 1877 the present Shag Point Coal Company was formed :it was enlarged from three shareholders to eight. This was before the main line was completed. We saw the necessity, and immediately took steps to connect the coal field with the main line of railway. The coal field is a public property leased to. the Shag Point Coal Company, and a.lso a portion to another party. At this time I drew the attention of the then Minister for Public Works, Mr. Ormond, to the necessity and advantage in every way of having the connection made. The matter was taken into consideration, but nothing definite was done. At this time the District Railways Act came into force. Mr. Ormond forwarded me a copy of the proposed Act, saying that he thought it would meet the difficulty, as the line could be formed under this Act with rating powers. The Company accordingly took steps to have this done. They had a survey made of the line, called for tenders for its construction, and took all the necessary steps to carry out the provisions of the Act. The Act was complied with in every respect. Tenders were accepted subject to the Governor's assent. At the last moment the then Attorney-General, Mr. Stout, said that the line was so short and of such a nature that he did not think the District Railways Act was meant to apply to such a line, it simply running through one man's land between the main line and the coal field. The length of the line is a mile and three-quarters. He could not advise the Governor's assent; and therefore all our time and expenditure was thrown away. The difficulty was then to obtain the consent of the landowners between the main line and the coal field. We represented to the Government the difficulties in which we were placed, and asked them to declare the foreshore a Government road for the purpose of enabling the Company to form a tramway to get the necessary connection. The Minister for Public Works replied to the application as follows: — Wellington, 28fch August, 1878. —F. D. Rich, Esq., Dunedin. —Do I understand that Company will find money to construct tramway along beach, and also pay for necessary land. If so, send up necessary plans, and GrOYernrnent will take steps in matter. —J. Maoandrew. The foreshore was duly proclaimed a Government road, with an intimation from Mr. Macandrew that doubtless we should consider ourselves in a position to prosecute our undertaking. Our difficulties still continued. We were threatened by the legal adviser of the adjoining landowners that we should be indicted for a public nuisance by interfering with the public road, as we had then commenced our earthworks and purchased the necessary sleepers so as to get the work completed with despatch. After receiving such an intimation I telegraphed to the Minister for Public Works as follows : — Palmerston, 16th September, 1878. —Hon. James Macandrew, Wellington. —Will yoa kindly hare Sling Point line, 3-feet-6 gauge, included in Schedule of Bill as recommended by you, the Company completing survey and plans, to be certified to by Mr. Blair, and will also find the money for construction. The line will be upon foreshore now gazetted aa Government road, except taking about one acre of Allan's land, wlierc there is no foreshore, on account of defective survey. As you will see, Allan's land is not to be interfered with to any appreciable extent; it will therefore bo quite unnecessary to make any private arrangement. I would respectfully suggest the equity and policy of having line to a public coal field made under legislation. I presume we cannot proceed with survey without another communication from you, which you can kindly make to me at Palmerston. —p. D. Kicn.
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The Government at once acted upon this telegram, and included the Shag Point line in the Schedule of works that were to be undertaken. Accordingly we had everything completed. The line was surveyed, tendered for, and completed under Mr. Blair's supervision, exactly as any other public line in the colony would be constructed. The bridges and every part of the work had to be constructed strictly in accordance with the provisions of the Public Works Act. The line was completed and handed over to the Government on the 17th June, 1879. Just before its completion I wrote to the Minister for Public Works relative to the working of the Hue, and received the following letters in reply: — Railway Department, Wellington, 29th March, 1879. —Sir,—l am directed by the Hon. Mr. Macandrew to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 24th instant relative to arrangements for working the traffic from the Shag Point Coal Company's mine, and in reply to state that your communication has been referred (o the Commissioner of Railways for the Middle Island, with a view to the best arrangements possible being made to meet the case; and when his report has been received you will be communicated wilh further on the subject. —I have, &c, N. W. Webby, Under-Secretary for Eailways.—F. I). Rich, Esq., Bushy Park, Palmerston. Eailway Department, Wellington, 21st April, 1879. —Sir, —With reference to my letter of the 29th ultimo, I am now directed to forward you the accompanying copy of a memorandum received from the Commissioner of Railways for the Middle Island, with a request that you will kindly intimate to the Government whether the Shag Point Coal Company desire that the Eailway Department should work their branch line.—l have, &c, N. W. Webby, XJnder-Secretary for Eailways.—E. D. Eich, Esq., Bushy Park, Palmerston, Otago. My reply was to the following effect: — Palmerston, 23rd April, 1879. —The Shag Point Coal Company fully depend upon Government to work the branch line, and to treat it in every respect as a line made under the Public Works Act, leaving for future adjustment the recouping us the cost of construction. —E. D. Rich. —Minister for Public Works, Wellington. The Company at once requested the Government to treat the line as any other public line, leaving for future adjustment the recouping us the cost we had incurred. The following memorandum was written by Mr. Conyers:— The Hon. the Minister for Public Works. —Arrangements will be completed for conveying the Shag Point Company's coal north and south as soon as the branch is ready. Careful provision is being made for supply of wagons, and also for the necessary engine-power. Erom what I can learn it will be quite six weeks before the Company will be prepared to commence active operations : by that time our grain season will be well over, and we are almost daily adding to our rollingstock. I would specially direct your attention to the fact that no reference is made by Mr. Rich to the working of the Company's branch, which extends, I understand, about If miles from the main line; meanwhile the Government obligation would commence at the junction, but from what I can hear incidentally the Company expects that the department should work the branch. Please advise me.—W. Conyers, Commissioner of Railways.—l6th April, 1879. The following report followed Mr. Conyers's memorandum: — New Zealand Railways (Middle Island). —Commissioner of Eailways' Office, Christehurch, 3rd May, 1879. —Memorandum for Hon. Minister for Public Works. —With reference to Mr. Eich's telegram to you re the working of the Shag Point Coal Company's branch, I have the honor to submit the following remarks: —l thiuk it would be objectionable for Government to work the branch unless it be owned by the Government. The proper plan would be for the Company t:> work it, doing their own haulage over the branch (as the Ivaitangata Company does on that line), and for this department to deliver the empty and receive the loaded wagons at the junction. This arrangement would render it necessary for the Company to have a locomotive (as the Kaitangata Company has) ; but, seeing that the Company has made no provision of the kind, another plan will have to be resorted to. As an alternative course I would suggest that the traffic shall be worked by this department, by special trains running from the mine direct to destination, and vice versa, thus saving a special engine on the branch. The charge for haulage would, of course, be calculated on the mileage from mine to destination, the Company guaranteeing a full load for the engines. If the branch is in all points properly completed, I would propose that we maintain it, letting the cost of maintenance compensate the Company for the use of the line, in lieu of rent. This is the arrangement which I beg leave to recommend, and I consider it a reasonable one. It should be borne in mind that this plan, while involving no loss to the Government, is suggested for the convenience of the Shag Point Company. No possible benefit could accrue to us from working the branch, inasmuch as, whether we work it or not, the traffic must come into our hands; and I would therefore further recommend that, if the Company decline fo accede to these terms, the Company be left to make their own arrangements for working the branch. —W. Conyees, Commissioner of Railways, Middle Island. Afterwards I received the following telegram from Mr. Conyers : — Christehurch, 18th June, 1879. —Your telegram. Please understand that we work generally under the arrangement proposed in my memo, to Minister, but that details can be agreed upon as necessity arises. This arrangement does not affect the question of the junction. —W. Conyees.—E. D. Rich, Esq., Palmerston. The Government were extremely strict in having the line most efficiently completed in every respect before they would take possession. The Company are not getting any consideration whatever for the outlay of capital in the shape of freight of coal on the branch line, which now amounts to about £2 10s. per day. I brought this injustice before the late Government, and also before the present Government. I have authority for stating that Mr. Ormond, who was Minister for Public Works at the commencement of this undertaking, considers we ought to be recouped the cost ; and also that Mr. Macandrew, with whom the arrangement was made, considers that the Government ought to take over the line, recouping the Company the cost. The present Minister for Public Works contemplated doing so last session, having been furnished with all particulars ; and the lino was included in those to be taken over by the Government. The following memorandum will show the direct saving to the Government by the use of the coal as against the use of foreign coal, and also the amount of revenue derivable from the carriage of the coal along the main line. Memo. —The present supply to locomotive department is at least 50 tons per day, upon which there is a saving of 14s. per ton, allowing even 25 cwt. to 20 cwt. of Newcastle. This saving amounts to £10,500 per annum, and the supply to Government is increasing. Ereight is paid on 500 tons per week. Putting the average as low as 4s. per ton gives £5,200. Oamaru used to pay £1 17s. 6d.; now sold at £1 2s. 6d.; and other places at comparative rates. I have tried to show you that the public and the Government are deriving a very large benefit from this outlay of capital, and that it was never contemplated by the Company that the Government should not recoup them for their outlay. In the development of the coal mine and in the construction of the railway we have spent £30,000, the cost of the railway being £8,500. I may state that one gentleman who had an interest in the Company sold out recently, losing all the interest upon his capital for a Etumber of years past. We have our liabilities and our overdraft at the bank to contend with, and also
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the well-known difficulties that all coal fields have to contend with in New Zealand. Another large shareholder in the Company was obliged to sell out, being afraid to face the well-known difficulties and uncertainties in connection with conl mines. 927. The Chairman: Do I understand that the Company sell the coal at the mouth of the mine, and the purchasers pay the haulage over the branch line? 023. Mr. Rich : The purchasers pay the haulage. The coal is sold at the mouth of the mine. 929. The Chairman : So that what the Company really lose is the interest on the capital invested in the construction of the line ? 930. Mr, Rich : Yes. 931. The Chairman: Supposing the line were worked as at present, and the Company had the working of it themselves, they would, judging from the Government returns, be losers, not only of the interest, but also considerable losers on the working of the line ? 932. Mr. Rioh : It depends upon what the working expenses on the line would be. 933. The Chairman : I am presuming that the line is worked as at present ? 934. Mr. Rich • We could not sell the coal. If the Government were to say, "We will not continue to work this line," we should have to put a small engine on, and, instead of charging the Government and the public 13s. per ton, we should have to charge them 14s. per ton. 935. The Chairman : What acreage has the Company under lease ? 936. Mr. Rich : One hundred and seventy acres. The other tenant has sixty acres, for which he paid a bonus of £570 at auction in order to obtain it, besides the annual rental. 937. The Chairman : Would the Company be satisfied if they were allowed to retain the line as their own, and to work it at their own expense ? 938. Mr. Rich : We have the power of doing so under a verbal arrangement with Mr. Conyers, by giving him a month's notice. The Government quite recognize that it is our line, and that we could work it at any time at our own cost. 939. Colonel Pearce : You stated that this line appeared in the Schedule of one of the Acts : what do you mean by that ? 940. Mr. Rich : Mr. Macandrew sent in a list, and asked authority from the Assembly for the construction of certain lines. He asked authority for the construction of this line. 941. Colonel Pearce : Was that authority granted ? 942. Mr. Rich : Yes ; the line was included in the Schedule to the Act. 943. Colonel Pearce : Was there an appropriation of a sum of money for the line? 944. Mr. Rich : I do not think there wag. The Assembly gave its sanction to it, and the estimated cost was put down, but I do not think there was any vote passed for it. 945. The Chairman ■ When you obtained authority under the Public Works Act to make this line, was any stipulation made by the Government that other conl companies should have a right to run over the line? 946. Mr. Rich : No; no such agreement was entered into. Mr. Macandrew stated that the line could be worked under such agreement between the Government and the Company as might be made from time to time. There was never any agreement made with our Company about carrying any other coal. 947. The Chairman : I understood you to say that the price charged to the Government for the coal was 13s. per ton. 948. Mr. Rich,: Yes ;we have entered into a contract with the Government to supply the locomotive department for two years with a hundred tons of coal per day at 13s. per ton.
Dotedim-, Monday, 19th April, 1880. Mr. Datid Baebob", District Surveyor, sworn and examined. 9-19. The GlmirmanP\ You are District Surveyor stationed at Naseby ? —Yes. 950. The Commission are inquiring into the quantity and value of the laud which will be opened up by means of the Otago Central Railway ; and we will ask you in the first instance if you can give an approximate estimate of the quantity of land fit for agricultural purposes in the Maniototo Plain ? —I find that the approximate area of land in the Maniototo Plain is 192,000 acres. 951. Is that land still in the hands of the Crown? —No, not the whole of it. I can give you the approximate area of land taken up as agricultural leasehold, deferred-payment land, and freehold. 952. Is the land taken up on agricultural leasehold permanently alienated, or can it return into the hands of the Grovernrnent at the termination of the lease ? —lt is permanently alienated so far as the purposes of settlement are concerned, unless required for mining purposes. 953. Will you be good enough to give the figures ? —I find the approximate quantity of land taken up within the Maniototo Plain is 30,000 acres under the three different systems 1 have mentioned. 954. That leaves about 160,000 acres still in the hands of the Crown ?—Yes. A margin of 2,000 acres may be put down as pastoral-lease pre-emptive land. 955. Cau you give us some estimate as to what proportion of the 100,000 acres of land is fit for agricultural purposes ?—Assuming that it is all Crown land, I have classified it in this way: 80,000 acres of very fair agricultural land, 80,000 acres of fourth-class agricultural land; and the balance of 32,000 acres may be put down as good pastoral country. 20,000 acres of the alienated land may be described as second-class or fair agricultural land, and the balance as medium agricultural land. The total area of the Maniototo County is 750,000 acres, including the areas I have already given in the Plain. 956. Then, what is your estimate of the available agricultural land in the Ida Valley?—About 25,000 acres within the Maniototo County. 957. Of the remainder you are unable to give an estimate ? —Yes. 958. Are the 25,000 acres all in the hands of the Crown ? —No ; there is a small block of 2,500 acres surveyed for settlement, a portion of which has been taken-up under agricultural leases. B—E. 3.
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959. Will you be good enough to give a classification of that land in the same way as you have done in the case of the Maniototo Plain ?—I should say that at least 15,000 acres in the Ida Valley is very fair agricultural land. The remaining 10,000 acres is medium agricultural land, but it is at a very high altitude. 960. Is the Strath-Taieri within your district ? —Tea, a portion of it. lam not prepared to give evidence with respect to the Strath-Taieri, as I have not gone into the figures. 961. Is there any other block of land within your district affected by the Central Eailway upon which you can give explicit evidence ? —There is a block of between 8,000 and 9,000 acres surveyed for settlement at St. Bathan's. 962. Is that good agricultural land? —It is supposed to be the best within that portion of the district. It is very fair agricultural land. There are about 1,250 acres of that land taken up for settlement under agricultural leases. The balance is still Crown land, and available for selection. 963. Is there any other block ? —There are about 3,000 acres taken up for settlement in the vicinity of the Township of Hyde, within Maniototo County. It is all looked upon as very fair agricultural land. I had classified the land in the Maniototo Plain somewhat as follows : 80,000 acres adapted for farms of from 300 to 500 acres each ; 80,000 acres adapted for pastoral farms of from 500 to 1,000 acres each; and 32,000 acres adapted for pastoral farms of from 1,000 to 1,500 acres each. This includes 30,000 acres already alienated. 964. Colonel Pearce.~] Is the land described as at St. Bathan's, on the western side of Blackstone Hill ? —Tes ; it lies on the north-western side of the Blackstone Hill Township, on what is known as Hill's Creek. 965. Would that land be served by this Central Eailway ?—Tes. It is a small peninsular portion lying between the Dunstan Creek and the Manuherikia Eiver. The lower end of the peninsula lies within 4 miles of the proposed Otago Central Railway before it enters the Ida Valley. 966. Mr. Clark.~\ I presume that the 9,000 acres which you mention as having been set aside for settlement at St. Bathan's is included in the 750,000 acres, the total area of the county ?—Tes. 967. And is also included in the 80,000 acres of very fair agricultural land? —No; it is not included in the 132,000 acres given as the area of the Maniototo Plain. 968. The same remark would apply to the 3,000 acres set aside at Hyde ? —Tes ; and also to the 25,000 acres in the Ida Valley. 969. Do you consider that the whole extent of the Maniototo County would be served by this proposed railway ?—Tes ; because it all lies within the watershed of the two rivers commanded by the railway, the Taieri watershed and the Manuherikia watershed. The railway is proposed to go up one valley and come down the other. 970. No portion of the Maniototo County is part of the watershed of Shag Eiver ? —No; the watershed there is the boundary. 971. Tou have described the second-class land in the Maniototo Plain as being something like fourth-class agricultural land ?—Tes. 972. In what class would you put the first 80,000 acres which you mentioned as being very good land? —It is second-class agricultural land. 973. Are you conversant with the country between Livingstone and Naseby ? —Tes, I am very well acquainted with that portion of the country. 974. Do you know anything of the country through which one of the lines of railway was proposed to be taken —namely, the extension of the Livingstone branch, to tap the Maniototo Plain by Naseby ? —Tes, I know it very well. 975. Do you consider that line a practicable line ?—No; its construction would involve a very great cost. 976. What particular portion of the work would be costly ? Does it require a long tunnel ? —lt would be all heavy work from the Township of Livingstone to the Kyeburn diggings. It is very broken country all the way, and it would necessitate the construction of a tunnel of at least a mile or a mile and a half in length. The grade, even with a tunnel of that length, would be very steep indeed. It would be a grade of from 1 in 50 all the way to the Kyeburn diggings. The ascent on the Naseby side is quite as steep as the grade on the other side of the range. 977. That is after deducting the altitude which would be overcome by piercing the tunnel?—Tes. 978. In mentioning the tunnel as about a mile and a half in length, do you make that statement from personal inspection of the ground or plan, or is it based upon reports ?—-It is from a superficial observation. The saddle is a broad one, and the grade on both sides so steep that it would necessitate a tunnel of at least the length I have mentioned. 979. Do you consider it would cost as much to make that line a practicable working line as it would to go through the Taieri Gorge ? —lt would cost more, I should think. It is all rough country, and not suited for agricultural purposes. It would practically open up no country between the Township of Livingstone and the Maniototo Plain. 980. Would it not serve the northern portion of the Strath-Taieri ? —No ; it would not touch it at all. The distance from Hyde to the nearest portion of this Livingstone Eailway would not be less than between 18 and 20 miles. Hyde is situated at the northern extremity of the Strath-Taieri. 981. What would be the length of the proposed line from Livingstone to Naseby ?—The distance by the track is 30 miles, and the railway would be equally as long. 982. Could the remark, " No country served by the railway," be also applied to the 23 miles from Mosgiel to the entrance to the Strath-Taieri?—Not in the same wav, because the land between Mosgiel and the Strath-Taieri lies at a lower altitude, and, I believe, has been subdivided into small pastoral runs, and is capable of supporting a good many families; whereas, in the other case the land must all be subdivided into one or two runs to make it workable, as it is nearly all high country. 983. Tou speak of land on the side of the Taieri G-orge as suitable for small pastoral holdings: could access be given to that land conveniently ? —I believe so, because the railway will run along at the lowest level. It could always be reached by the leading ridges. 934. Do you consider the land on both sides of the river at the G-orge available in the way indicated ?—Tes.
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Mr. William Aethur, Chief Surveyor, Otago Provincial District, sworn and examined.
985. The Chairman.~\ How long have you held your present office ? —Three years. 986. Are you intimately acquainted with the character of the country through which the proposed Otago Central Railway will run? —Yes; I know it very well from the Taieri to Lake Wanaka. A great part of that country has been triangulated by me. 987. The Commission wish to ascertain what area of land fit for settlement would be opened up by that railway, and they wish you to give an estimate of the different blocks, stating how much of each block you consider to be agricultural land ? —When this line was first proposed, I made an estimate for Mr. McKerrow or the Parliament. More recently, Mr. Maitland, Chief Commissioner of Crown Lands, and I went over the same ground again, but more fully. However, I did not alter my previous calculations at all. In 1877 I estimated that the agricultural land which would be directly benefited by this railway from the Taieri to Clyde only was 360,000 acres, to which must be added about 95,000 acres of the Manuherikia Valley. Since then I calculated for Mr. Maitland's information the area in the Upper Clutha Valley, which makes 50,000 acres more. That makes a total of 505,000 acres of agricultural land. I have also estimated the gross area of pastoral land which would be affected by the railway, exclusive of the agricultural land, at 2,204,000 acres in round numbers. 988. Can you give us the figures with respect to the agricultural land a little more in detail, specifying the districts ?—From the Taieri up to Eun 250 there are 90,000 acres ; from Run 250 up to Taieri Lake, 20,000 acres; Maniototo Plains, 180,000 acres ; Ida Valley, 70,000 acres ; Manuherikia Valley, 95,000 acres ; and Upper Clutha, 50,000 acres. 989. Have you, since 1877, seen any reason to think that your estimate should be either increased or diminished ? —No. I may say that it is within the mark. Since then I have been over some of the outlying portions of the interior which I had not previously seen. In one case I found 17,000 acres of an agricultural flat which is not included in this estimate. 990. Since that estimate was made, has not some portion of the Crown lands become alienated, either by sale to individuals, or by lease with an ultimate power of purchase, or by the creation of reserves ?—There has been nothing material as regards reserves since that dale —nothing to affect the general return I have given. There have undoubtedly been sales since that date, but I do not think they have been of any great extent. The gross quantity of agricultural land which I have given includes land surveyed and sold. 991. Mr. Clark.~\ Can you state approximately what amount of the 505,000 acres of agricultural land has now been alienated from the Crown?—No; I have no knowledge of that directly. I should have to apply to the Crown Lands Office for it. 992. You have spoken of 17,000 acres included in the estimate of pastoral land which you would now be inclined to class as agricultural land: where is that situated ? —lt is known as the Serpentine Flat, near the source of the Taieri River. It is 1,800 feet above the sea-level. You could not see that flat when travelling in the neighbourhood. It is a very fine flat, only, like much of the land in the interior, the good quality of the soil cannot very well be made use of, owing to frosts and the dryness of the climate. It is all ploughable. 993. Do you consider, roughly speaking, that this area of agricultural land, amounting in all to 505,000 acres, is ploughable?—Yes; that is all ploughable land. 994. Would you class the whole of that land as first-class land, or would you subdivide it ? —lt is all ploughable land, but I think that about 10 per cent, of it would be first-class land, and the rest second-class —some of it not even so good as second-class. 995. Perhaps second-class and inferior would be the best description ? —Those are relative terms. By inferior land I would not mean land only fit for grazing, but stony and shingly land. 996. That is land that would be unsuitable to divide into holdings of 200 or 300 acres with any chance of the holders succeeding ? —That is so in the ordinary acceptation of the word; but the land in the interior is peculiarly situated, not as regards the quality of the soil, but more as regards the climate. The great part of the land over and above first-class land might bo very well cultivated if you could irrigate it. 1 have seen land in the interior, which you might not think worth putting a plough into, grow beautiful clover, 3 feet long, by means of irrigation; but, without irrigation, I have seen different classes of crops, some very good and some very poor. ' Oats, for instance, I have seen, in the Maniototo Plains, only 12 inches high in March, and so thin as scarcely to be capable of being reaped or cut; while in the Ida Valley, at the same season, I saw a splendid crop of oats, and a very fair one of wheat, in paddocks of Sir Dillon Bell's. 997. Do you think a plan of irrigation could be carried out for farming purposes, and pay a fair return ? —As to paying, I could not venture to say; but the beginning of a large system of irrigation is in existence at present on the Maniototo Plains. A large water-race was brought in at a high elevation on the Plains for mining purposes. It brings in a large quantity of water. I have not heard that the results from mining at Naseby, in consequence of that race, have been equal to expectations. Some years ago I suggested to the Government, when Provincial Engineer, that this water-race might be a very valuable property for irrigation purposes. It commands the whole Plain, and used to brine in forty-seven Government heads of water per day. Even without water I have seen very fine crops on the Plains in some places; but at other places, in the same season, I have seen crops that were not worth cutting. 998. Are you acquainted with the character of the land on that portion of the Maniototo Plains within a radius of 3 miles from Naseby ? —Yes, I know it intimately. 999. Do you consider that a fair sample of the quality of the soil on the whole of the Plains?— No ; that is a poor place. That is not only unfortunate in situation, being 2,000 feet above the sea, but it is the coldest part of the whole Plains, being under the hills at the north end of the Plains, and the soil is cold and clayey. They do manage with perseverance to cultivate fine gardens, and they cut a few crops, but not as a rule. 1000. At what point do you consider the better class of land is ?—lt is scattered all over. I. could not say that it is in one place more than another. At all events I exclude from the first-class land:— 10 per cent, of the whole —all that near Naseby.
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1001. But you would consider the rest a fair average of the remaining 90 per cent. ?—Tes, a fair average. 1002. Do you know where the holding of the Naseby Agricultural Society is ?—I know where all the farms are, but not that Society's land. 1003. Are the farms which you speak of included in the 10 per cent, of first-class land ? —Some of them are. On some of the farms between Naseby and the Taieri River, which are now well worked, I have seen miserable crops. The soil was fair, but there was no water. In other places, not far from there, I have seen much better crops. 1004. Is the whole of the land you have referred to as being affected by the proposed railway included in the watershed of the Taieri and the Manuherikia ? —Tes —and the Upper Clutha.
Oahaetj, Tuesday, 20th April, 1880. A deputation from the Oamaru-Naseby Kailway Committee, consisting of Messrs. Samuel Gribbs, Mayor; Greorge Sumpter, Chairman of Harbour Board; James Lees ; T. C. Dennison; and S. E. Shrimslri, M.H.E., waited upon the Commission. 1005. Mr. Gibhs made the follow)ug statement: The most important question that the deputation wish to bring before the Commission is with reference to the extension of the Waiareka railway line on towards Naseby. About June, 1877, public meetings were held in this town, at Naseby, at Waimate, and other places, for the purpose of organizing a plan for carrying a railway into the interior by way of the Maerewhenua Pass over to Kyeburn. The Counties of Maniototo and Waitaki, and the municipalities in these counties, subscribed a sufficient sum to pay for a flying survey, which was made by Messrs. Thornton and Bull. The result of that survey is the plan now before the Commission, and the report which accompanies it. Up to that time no steps had been taken for the construction of any other railway into the interior of Otago. Committees were appointed here and at Naseby to take steps to obtain the necessary information. With regard to distance and public utility, from a colonial point of view, it was shown that the route by the Maerewhenua Pass would be the easiest, least expensive, and shortest into the interior of the province. For all places north of the Kakanui it would save something like 100 miles in going into the interior, instead of going round by Dunedin. The estimates prepared by Messrs. Thornton and Bull went to show that, at a comparatively small cost, a line could be made through the Maerewhenua Pass to connect the whole of this Island with the interior of Otago west of the Kakanui Mountains. There is a line now in course of construction, which is called the Windsor and Livingstone line, which goes over a portion of the proposed route into the interior. Considerable complaint has been made lately that the Livingstone terminus of the line, which is now in course of construction, is taken at such a low level as to prevent its extension through the Maerewhenua Pass. Representations to that effect have been made by several residents of Livingstone who have been connected with mining matters for many years, who are men of considerable intelligence, quite capable, from their experience in race-cuttings and other matters, of judging of the nature and run of the country. We have had several communications from them, representing that the proposed terminus of the Windsor and Livingstone line is very nearly 200 feet below the line traced by Messrs. Thornton and Bull for the purpose of taking it through the Pass. We think that if the Commission make a representation on this subject it is not too late, inasmuch as two or three miles have not yet been touched at the other end. A fresh survey might be made so as to take the terminus of the Livingstone line at such an altitude that it could afterwards be carried through the Pass. We do not ask that the line should be made under present circumstances or upon the present surveys. What we wish is that you should recommend that a survey thoroughly independent of local influences should be made of this route through the Maerewhenua Pass, and that it should be fairly reported upon. If that is done, we are thoroughly confident that this line will be chosen in preference to any other. We look upon it more as a colonial than a local matter. We think that if a thoroughly independent survey is made it will so convince the Government of the day that eventually a line will be taken by the Maerewhenua Pass in preference to any other. With the permission of the Commission, I might read the following extract from a letter written by Mr. Steward, who was, until lately, chairman of the Railway Committee: — If a practicable line can be made at reasonable expense between the two points, it must one day or other be constructed, because (1) it w.ould effect a saving of at least 100 miles in making a journey from any place north of Oamaru, or, indeed, of Palmerston, to Naseby, Cromwell, Dunstan, or the Lakes, and, of course, double that distance on a return journey : (2) it would tend largely to the development of the agricultural capabilities of the interior, because a direct road to the Port of Oamaru would save 50 or 60 miles of rail-carriage as against haying to convey the produce to Port Chalmers : (3) it has recently been shown that good wheat can be grown on the Maniototo, a flour-mill being now in course of erection at Naseby ; consequently, it is to be expected that with cheap means of conveyance to a port there will be extensive cultivation of cereals on the Naseby side of the range : (4) a line through the range would secure all the passenger traffio for all places north of Palmerston, because it would form the shortest and least expensive journey; and the passenger and goods traffic would yield undoubtedly a handsome interest on cost of construction, which there is every reason to believe would not exceed £200,000 —possibly a great deal less: (5) a survey of the most complete kind would not cost more than £2,000 at the very most. I may say that, previous to the last meeting of the Assembly, we endeavoured to get the Glovernment to place upon the estimates a sum sufficient to test the practicability of the line via, the Maerewhenua Pass, and during the time that this was under discussion we were informed by a firm of engineers in this town that, if tenders were called for, they themselves would be prepared to do the work for less than £500, so as to afford a complete working survey and plan from which tenders could be called for for the construction of the line. Mr. Steward's letter goes on to say, — These, I think, are the principal considerations, and should not fail to insure a favourable recommendation. Meantime the line to Livingstone should be pushed on to completion, and on its completion some of the unsold Crown land near the Livingstone terminus should be offered for sale on deferred payments in suitable-sized blocks. The proceeds of these would fully recoup the cost of the line,
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I have read these extracts from Mr. Steward's letter because lie is thoroughly competent to report upon anything connected with the line, as he has made it a sort of study for the last three years. With reference to the necessary alteration of the terminus at Livingstone, I would ask permission to read the following extract from a letter which I received from Mr. Charles P. Roberts, who has lived for many years at Livingstone, and has been engaged in mining pursuits. He is also chairman of the Railway Committee which was appointed there, and chairman of the Livingstone Mining Association. The letter is dated 23rd January last, which was at the time when the proposed terminus was being finally pegged out. lie says, — I have the honor to advise you that the committee of the Maerewhenua Mining Association have been informed that the works on the Windsor—Livingstone Railway have been stopped to correct or alter levels. If such be the ease, it appears to my committee a favourable opportunity for seeking a better course from the junction of the Windsor Road and the Awamolso to Livingstone. My committee believe that, from their better local knowledge, they can point out to any person whom you niay depute a better and shorter course over the part named, having the advantage of terminating at a point much more favourably situated for ultimate extension to Naseby than the terminus as at present surveyed. This matter, I believe, was brought before the Government during last session by our representatives, and, from repeated communications we have had from residents in Livingstone, we are thoroughly convinced that the matter requires looking into before anything further is done. If you could see your way to make a representation on this matter, we think you would be conferring a favour on the whole colony. With regard to the accuracy of the levels shown by the map prepared by Messrs. Thornton and Bull, I may say that every precaution was taken to make the flying survey as accurate as possible. 1006. Mr. Sumpter made the following statement: This question of connecting the interior with Oamaru by a line of railway was mooted, not only by the local paper here,',but in one or two other places sim ultaneously. All those writers who then dealt with the question thought that the connection with the interior by way of Oamaru would be one of the shortest routes, and very probably one of the most profitable lines, that could be adopted in connection with the interior. The question which then chiefly occupied the minds of the people of Oamaru was, whether they could find, first of all, a complete and safe harbour for any business that these works might bring to our port —that is to say, whether we could grapple with the large increase of trade that would be caused by this connection with the interior. Happily, soon after this question was taken into consideration the Harbour Board, by making some experiments in the bay, found that it was quite practicable, at a very small cost, to deepen the harbour to almost any extent, because where they thought that there was solid rock they found that it was simply conglomerate, which could be easily pierced and dredged. It is therefore quite practicable to make the harbour almost any depth, which will enable us, we hope, to bring in ships of 2,000 tons burden. Prom comparative statements of the different routes suggested we came to the belief, and not hastily, that the route by the Maerevvhenua Pass was the most advantageous that could be made from a colonial point of view. We therefore tried to get other places to join us in having this object accomplished. However, Oamaru is a comparatively small place as regards representation in Parliament, and we have had a hard fight to get that notice paid to this route which we think it deserves. Even since the House has decided that another route should be adopted we find that this route by the Maerewhenua Pass would bear favourable comparison with that which has been adopted; in fact, we think, ourselves, that there is no comparison whatever. I may inform the Commission that there are now only 33 miles of railway to construct in order to connect Oamaru with the interior, and that length of line is not estimated to cost more than £200,000. If that is compared with the estimates of the cost of the other line of railway now being constructed, I think the Commission will be justified, at any rate, in recommending the Government to grant us a sufficient sum of money to have the route via the Maerewhenua Pass properly surveyed in detail, with all particulars given. We ourselves feel no fear as to the result. I think it should also be taken into consideration that with the money alreadj' voted we shall be able to make our harbour a very serviceable and safe one. I may add that the engineer has estimated that the scheme at present contemplated by the Board can be completed with the sum of £100,000 now being floated. This includes the construction of the north wall. Seeing that this route by the Maerewhenua Pass is the cheapest and shortest route into the interior, and, further, that it passes through country of a very different character to what is traversed by the Strath-Taieri line, there can be no doubt that if the Government take it into consideration they will be doing a great service to the colony generally. 1007. Mr. Reid: Can any of the deputation give evidence from personal knowledge as to the quality of the land as far as this line goes and up to the Pass ? 1008. Mr. Sumpter : I can say that it is extremely good land. There are farms a great part of the way. Near the Pass the land has not yet been cultivated, but it will be brought into use by the construction of the railway. 1009. Mr. Shrimski: Before the Oamaru and Naseby Committees were appointed there was no intention in any part of the colony down South to attempt the construction of the great interior railway. But, in consequence of Oamaru and Waimate undertaking a survey of the line, and agitating the matter, the people of Dunedin and the interior immediately became jealous, and had another line surveyed. The matter was brought before Parliament, and a Committee appointed to make inquiry. I will not say that that Committee was packed, but the influence of Dunedin was very great, and Oamaru was entirely ignored, no witnesses from this part of the country having been summoned to give evidence before that Committee. Mr. Pyke brought in a report stating that the Strath-Taieri route was the best one. I felt at the time that the expenditure on that route was a great waste of public money, and I still think so. If the line by the Maerewhenua Pass had been made it would have opened a splendid tract of country, it would yield a fair return to the Government, and it would be a benefit to the whole country ; but I am satisfied that the Strath-Taieri line will never pay. 1010. Mr. Qibhs : With reference to the quality of the land on this side of the Pass, I may say that within the last eighteen months, when selecting an endowment for the municipality, I was for two days travelling about the neighbourhood of Livingstone, and I saw nearly the whole of the unoccupied land about there. I may say that the land on what are known as the Tables, in the Oamaru District, is looked
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upon as some of the finest land in the colony; and that description of land exists right up to the Pass itself. Of course it is somewhat broken, but there is scarcely any of it that cannot be ploughed very easily. 1011. Colonel Pearce : Can you say what area of Crown land is contained in the district between Livingstone and the Pass ? 1012. Mr. Gibbs : Not from memory ; but I know there are several thousand acres. 1013. Mr. Beid : On one run alone —Messrs. Barton and McMasters's—there are 60,000 acres of Crown land. 1014. Mr. Clark: We have it in evidence that the land from Livingstone to the Pass is valuable. We know that there is some available land —although it may be only second-class —on the Naseby side of the Pass. For the information of the Commission, I wish to kuovv if there is any land on each side of the Pass itself that may be available for settlement, and also what is the length of the Pass ? 1015. Mr. Gibbs : As far as I understand, the length, of the Pass is probably 8 miles. The land on the Livingstone side of the Maerewhenua is good nearly up to the Pass. 1016. Mr. Clark: Is there any land in the Pass itself of any value? 1017. Mr. Gibbs: It is a gorge through the mountains. 1018. Mr. Dennison: The length, of the Pass depends very much on the route that is taken. The report says that there is a saddle in the Pass only halt" a mile in length. If the line were taken in that direction it would be shorter, and would not go through such a length of mountain pass. 1019. Mr. Clark: What about the gradients ? 1020. Mr. Dennison: They have yet to be found out. We think that if a proper survey were made, better gradients could be got, and a shorter distance, by this route. That is exactly what we want to arrive at. 1021. Mr. Lees : The gradients shown on the plan before the Commission are not the gradients on which the railway would be made. The plan simply shows the grade from one point to another, supposing the line were carried as the crow flies. 1022. Mr. Dennison : There may be very good grades, but the points shown on the plan are only those where the barometrical observations were taken. 1023. Mr. Clark: What would be the length of the tunnel which would be required ? 1024. Mr. Dennison : It is said that it would only be half a mile in length, but nothing can be said with certainty until ;i proper survey has been made. 1025. Mr. Reid: I understand that the sole request of the deputation at present is that the Government should do them the justice of making a proper survey of this proposed route, or that they will place a sufficient sum at the disposal of the deputation for the purpose of having such survey made. 1026. Mr. Sumpter : It should be understood that the survey should be a complete one. £2,000 is the amount which we think necessary for the purpose. 1027. Mr. Dennison : The intention is that borings should be made at certain points, in order to ascertain the nature of the rock which has to be pierced. The sum of £2,000 is to cover the cost of that work, as well as of the working survey. 1028. Mr. $u/mpter : It is not supposed that the survey will cost anything like that amount; but the committee would like a sufficient sum placed at their disposal to enable them to obtain a reliable survey. 1029. Mr. Gibbs : Mr. Blair is said to have reported that a line through the Maerewhenua Pass is impracticable. He came through the Pass himself ; but he rode from Naseby to Oarnaru in one day, in thick, heavy weather, when he could see nothing, and when there was no possibility of his making any observations as to the nature of the country. Mr. Blair has a considerable degree of prejudice against this part of the country.
Waimate, TWksday, 22nd Apbil, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. John Manchester, Mayor; James Edward Parker, Chairman Waimate Railway Company ; Prank Slee, Secretary to Railway Company ; John Douglas ; John McGregor, C.E ; James Lees ; Naylor Hillary, Engineer to the County Council; Michael Studholme ; C. R. Howden; and W. J. Steward, waited upon the Commission. Mr. John McGeegoh, C.E., sworn and examined. 1030. Mr. McGregor : I. wish first to read this statement to you, which is a copy of the statement suhmitted to the Minister for Public Works: — Dunedin, 16th January, 1880. —The Hon. R. Oliver, Minister for Public Works, Wellington.—Sir,—l am instructed by the directors of the Waimate Railway Company to submit the following statement, with proposal for obtaining some assistance from the Government under the powers conferred upon them by clause 32 of " The Public Works Act, 1879." The Company's line, an extension of the Government Waimate branch, commences at the Town of Waimate, and runs up theWaihao Valley for a distance of 16 miles to a terminus in Rural Section 18844, near Pudding Hill. The land included in Class K~o. 1, and subject to be rated under the District Railways Act, being an area of 40,000 acres, is all first-class agricultural land. Last year 5,000 acres of this district was in wheat and oat crops, and produced, with an exceptionally dry season, about 150,000 bushels of grain, or an average of thirty bushels to the acre. It is estimated that within two years 20,000 acres of Class 1 will be in grain-crop, producing annually 600,000 bushels, or 16,000 tons, which will be hauled over the Company's line. The land included in Class 2, being an area of 60,000 acres, is about one-half agricultural and one-half pastoral. The agricultural land is of similar quality to the land in Class 1, but farther away from the railway, and is capable of producing similar quantities of cereals per acre. Assuming, therefore, one-half of the agricultural land—say 15,000 acres—to be under crop, over 450,000 bushels, equal to 12,000 tons, would pass over the line from this district. The pastoral land in Class 2 consists of low, beautifully-grassed hills, capable of carrying one sheep to the acre. The country is well watered, and is intersected by good main and district roads, leading to the various stations on the line. The directors are confident that when the railway is completed the produce grown within the railway district will develop amply sufficient traffic to pay working expenses and interest on the cost of the line, and that in all probability the rating power given to the Company under the District Railways Act, and the 2 per cent, guaranteed by the Government from the Consolidated Fund, will not be required. The Company have imported 1,500 tons of 52-pound rails and fastenings, and
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dne locomotive ; have gone through all the legal and parliamentary forma required by the District Kailways Act; and have prepared the working plans and specifications for the whole length of the line—viz., 16 miles. The Company now, therefore, propose to proceed with the first section of the line, about 8 miles, commencing at the Town of Waimate, and ending about a mile beyond the crossing of the Waihuo River, as shown on the iiocompanying map of the district. The cost of this section completely equipped, as shown by detailed estimates already submitted to yon, is about £30,000. This £30,000 the Company propose to raise by issuing debentures, two-fifths being guaranteed by the Government, and three-fifths unguaranteed. The Company are willing to place the proceeds of the debentures to the credit of the Colonial Treasurer or Public Trustee, 75 per cent, to be paid over to the Company from time to time as the works progress, on the G-overnment Engineer's certificates ; the balance of 25 per cent, to be paid over to the Company one month after the section is completed and opened for traffic ; the Government to take such security as they may require over the line from time to time as the works progress and the money is advanced to the Company. The Company are willing to modify this proposal in any way to meet the views of the Government, so long as the object aimed at can be accomplished —viz., the construction of the railway from Waimate across the Waihao River. The plant was imported for the Company when iron was very low in price, on very advantageous terms, through the National Mortgage and Agency Company, and held for a period of six months after delivery in the colony according lo agreement. When this time elapsed the National Mortgage and Agency Company pressed the directors for payment, and threatened legal proceedings. The directors, therefore, after ascertaining from London that their debentures would not float, owing to defects in the District Railways Act, applied to the late Government to take over the plant at cost price. Mr. Macandrew (the late Minister for Public Works) agreed to take it over at the same price as Government could import similar plant at that date. A valuation was made by the Public Works Department showing a loss to the Company of about £3,000. The directors now submit that, if the Government intend purchasing the plant, the actual cost price, which is very low, should be paid, more especially as the price of rails has since advanced from £2 to £3 per ton. —I have, &c, John McGkegok. Waihao Section (length, 7 n.iles 71 chains). —Estimate of Cost —Abstract. —Grading, £8,233 165.; bridges and culverts, £3,998 10s.; fencing and gates, £1,032 10s.: total for formation, £13,264 16s. Permanent. way (including laying), £12,500 18s.; station gates and buildings, £2,500 : total permanent way and stations, £15,000 18s. Grand total for Waihao Section, £28,265 14s. I here submit an estimate of the probable receipts and working expenses for a distance of 8 miles. The total amount of receipts is estimated at £5,991 13s. 4d. : allowing 50 per cent, for working expenses, there is left a profit of £3,000. Waihao Section (length, about 8 miles; cost, about £30,000). —Estimate of Receipts and Working Expenses.— Receipts : grain, 20,000 tons at 25., £2,000 ; wool, 500 bales at Is., £25 ; general merchandise, 2,000 tons at 45., £400; timber, 1,200,000 superficial feet at 6d. per 100, £300 ; coal, 1,000 tons at Is. 6d., £75 ; stone, 1,000 tons at Is. 6d., £75; stock, 10,000 head at 4d., £166 13s. 4d. ; terminal charges, 26,500 tons at 25., £2,650 ; passengers, 4,000 at Is. 6d., £300 : total, £5,991 13s. 4d. Working expenses, 50 per cent., say £2,991 13s. 4d. Net profit, first year, £3,000. I also produce an estimate of the probable receipts and working expenses for the whole length of the line of 16 miles. It shows a total of £7,916 135., and a net profit for the first year of £3,958 6sWhole Line (length, 10 miles; average haulage, 12 miles). —Estimate of Receipts and Working Expenses.—Receipts : grain, 20,000 tons at 35., £3,000; wool, 500 bales at Is. 6d., £37 10s. ; general merchandise, 2,000 tons at 45., £400; timber, 2,000 tons at 35., £300; coal, 1,000 tons at 25., £100; stone, 1,000 tons at 25., £100 ; stock, 10,000 head at 4d.. £166 13s. ; terminal charges, 26,500 tons at 2s. 6d., £3,312 10s.; passengers, 4,000 at 2s. 6d., £500 : total, £7,916 13s. Working expenses, 50 per cent., £3,958 7s. Net profit, first year, £3,958 6s. These are all the documents I have to put in evidence. 1031. The Chairman.~\ Have you had any reply to this letter addressed to the Minister for Public Works ? —I have not received an official reply ; I have had a personal interview with the Minister for Public Works. 1032. What was the purport of that interview ?—The Hon. Mr. Oliver, the Minister for Public Works, informed me that the Government could not give this Company any assistance under clause 32 of the Public Works Act, because it had disposed of its rails, and was not in pecuniary difficulties —that it did not come within the scope of the Act. I wish to state that I did not agree with him, because we were in very dire pecuniary difficulties at the time. 1033. Beyond the importation of the rails, what other steps have the Company taken in connection with the line ? —We have not done any actual work on the formation of the line. We went through all the legal forms, and prepared the working plans and specifications. The District Railways Act is very cumbersome, and compelled us to go to considerable expense in going through the legal and parliamentary forms. 1034. The expenses to which you refer are preliminary expenses and cost of survey ?—Tes. 1035. You say you have disposed of your rails ?■ —We have. 1036. To the Government ? —Yes. 1037. Then they accepted the offer ? —They purchased the rails at a time when iron was low, and it has since risen in value. I may state that the Government, in estimating the cost of the rails to them, deducted all commissions for indenting and for exchange, and several other items which this Company had to pay, because they told us that the Government did not -p&j any of these charges, and consequently they could deliver the rails at a lower price. 1038. Such being the position of the Company, what is it that you wish to urge upon the Commission ? —The object of the deputation is to ask the Commission to recommend the Government to construct the line, as the Company is not in a position to do so at present. We cannot raise the funds, as we cannot sell our debentures at Home under the District Railways Act. There are one or two good reasons that I might urge for the Government constructing the line : one is, that I think it would pay very well ; and the other is, that it is an extension of the short line that is now made from the main line up to the Waimate Township, and can be worked at very nearly the same expense as this short line is being worked at. 1039. Would the district yield any other traffic to the line than that which might arise from the growth of grain ? —Tes. There is very good stone in the district, and very fair coal. There are experts present who will be able to give evidence as to the quality of the stone and the coal better than I can do. 1040. Is the whole of the land affected by the proposed line alienated from the Crown?—No. All in Class 1 is, but not in Class 2. 1041. What is the approximate area of Class No. 2 still in the hands of the Crown? —About 30,000 acres of pastoral land. 1042. Mr. Clark.'] In asking the Government to construct the line, do you propose that the expenses incurred by the Company should be made as a first charge, or that the Government should con-
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struct the line as if no action had been taken by the Company ?—I think the Company would not ask the Government to include the expenses already incurred as a first charge, but I have no doubt the Company would ask the Government to include the expenses already incurred in the total cost. I think it would be only fair to ask them to do so, especially as the Government have got the rails at about 50 per cent, below their present value. 1043. Including the £3,000 which you say is the loss in selling the rails, what is the amount expended by the Company ? —The secretary is present, and I think he will be able to give you a statement. lam not in a position to give it to you correctly. 1044. What is the estimated cost of the 16 miles'?—The total estimate is £100,000 ; but that includes rolling-stock and the value of the land. The following is a statement of the items making up the total cost: — Whole Line (length, about 15 miles 60 chains ; gauge, 3 ft. 6 in.; rails, 521b. per lineal yard).-—Estimate of Cost — Abstract.—Grading, £35,459 16s. Bd.; bridges and culverts, £15,478 10s.; fencing, £2,862 ; permanent way, including laying, £26,943 65.; station yards and buildings, £5,000; land, £2,250; rolling-stock, £6,035: total, £94,028 12s. Bd. Engineering and legal expenses, £5,971 7s. 4d. Grand total, £100,000. 1045. Mr. Wright.'] Have you acted as engineer for this Company ?—I have prepared the working plans and specifications, but I did not make the survey. 1046. Has the land along the route been acquired ? —The landowners have consented to give the land free of cost. 1047. Then I presume, if the Government undertook to make the line the land would also be given free ? —I think so. 1048. In estimating the profits at £3,958 on the first year's working, are these profits based on the Government rates for the carriage of goods ? —No ; they are based on the Company's rates, which were gazetted in accordance with the Act before the Government sanctioned the construction of the line. 1049. Are those rates higher or lower than the Government rates ? —They are higher. 1050. To what extent approximately ?—The terminal charges are the same, but the other items are, I think, about 50 per cent, higher. That was a power given to the Company under the District Railways Act. 1051. They are the rates on which the profits are estimated ? —Tes. 3052. Was it considered that the Government rates were too low to leave a margin of profit, that the Company were induced to fix upon the higher rates ?—No; I think it was in order to give the Company the power conferred upon them by the District Railways Act. They were obliged to gazette the rates before taking the votes of the landowners. 1053. But if the Government rates were high enough to yield a fair profit, what prompted the Company to fix higher rates ?—The Company wished to reserve the power of being able to charge the maximum. 1054. Being doubtful as to whether the Government rates would make the line profitable ?—I do not admit that. That was not the object of gazetting higher rates. 1055. Have the Company disposed of the rolling-stock they imported, as well as the rails ?—Tes. 1056. At a fair price ? —No ; at a low price, based upon the same calculations. 1057. At less than cost price ? —Tes. 1058. What are the outstanding liabilities ? —1 would refer you again to the secretary, as Ido not know. 1059. The Chairman."] What was the weight of the rails you imported ?—Fifty-two pounds. Mr. James Edwabd Paekee sworn and examined. 1060. The Chairman.] Tou are chairman of the Waimate Railway Company ?—Tes. 1061. Can you give the Commission any information as to the position of the Company ? —I may Btate that, although the Government took delivery of the plant about the month of November last, there is about £12,000 owing to us still. 1062. Tou are not in a position to give the Commission the total outlay ?—The secretary will be able to do so. 1063. Are you well acquainted with the district through which the proposed line will run ?—Tes ; very well. 1064. Will you be good enough to tell the Commission what is the general character of the land ? —I think the agricultural land in Class lis first-class. I have known it grow as much as seventy bushels of barley to the acre, eighty bushels to the acre of oats, and thirty-five bushels per acre of wheat. That is my own experience. 1065. Have you seen the estimates of receipts and working expenses of the proposed line ?—I have seen them, but I have not worked out the figures. 1066. Are you in a position to say whether the estimate of 20,000 tons is a reasonable estimate of the grain traffic for the first year? —I think it is. 1067. As far as you know and believe, the figures given in the return of receipts and working expenses for the first year are reasonably reliable ? —I should say the estimate of the quantity of stone is low, if it were once developed. I think the return gives a fair estimate of the traffic that would arise from the line if extended. 1068. Mr. Wright.] Do you think 20,000 acres of this land would be under crop during the first year of working this railway extension ? —I think so. It would entirely depend upon whether the land was sold or not. 10(>9. But, if unsold, are we to infer that there would not be as much under crop?-—lt is hard to say. I cannot say what the landholders are prepared to do. This is simply an estimate. 1070. It is a matter which would greatly afi'ect the paying capabilities of this line ?—lt is very difficult to say within a year. I have no doubt that within a year of this line being commenced this quantity of land would be under cultivation.
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1071. Mr. Reid.] Do you consider there would be this additional amount of traffic passing over the line to what passes over the portion now made ? —Tes. There has been a larger amount of land cultivated within the area during the last nine months ; but I cannot tell you how much. 1072. Mr. Wright.'] Can you inform us what number of settlers are now located in the Waihao Valley, and in occupation of the land ?—I should think about twenty settlers. There would be a great many more as soon as there was auy probability of their being able to cultivate to advantage. Mr. Michael Studholme sworn and examined. 1073. The Chairman.'] You know the Waihao Valley and district, through which this proposed line will run ? —Tes, I know it perfectly. 1P74. Will you state what your opinion is of the capabilities of the land ?—All the land available for ploughing is first-class wheat land. It is all of limestone formation. There is a very good black soil on the surface, and chocolate subsoil mixed with sea-shells. 1075. What is the area of the land you have described?—There are about 20,000 acres of this description of land ; there would be about 40,000 acres of good average land; making a total of 60,000 acres. There would be about 40,000 acres left, part of which would be ploughable and the remainder pastoral. There is any quantity of building-stone of very good quality; also lignite, which burns well, and is used in the threshing-machines. 1076. Would the flock-owners in the district use the line for the purpose of transport of sheep and cattle ? —Tes, either to Dunedin or Christchurch. 1077. Is it a district that fattens stock ? —Tes, it is a very good fattening district. The best sheep that stood in the Dunedin market for the last four or five years have come from the Waihao District. 1078. Would the district supply the annual number of 10,000 head of sheep for these markets ? — Yes, fully that number. 1079. Is the land held by large holders, or is it subdivided?—lt is held partly by large holders and partly by small holders. A large number of settlers who purchased areas of from 500 to 1,000 acres have been waiting for a railway to be commenced to begin cultivation. The cartage hitherto has been too expensive. 1080. Mr. Clarle.] Do you consider 20,000 acres is a fair estimate of the quantity of land which would be brought into cultivation within twelve months after the commencement of the extension of the line? —It might be 15,000, or it might be 25,000 acres. It is a very difficult question to answer. The land is there for cultivation, and if the people saw their way to cultivate with profit no doubt there would be 30,000 acres under cultivation within twelve months. 1081. Would the construction of the railway enable them to see their way to a profit?—Tes, I believe it would. 1082. Do you consider the cost of carriage the only obstruction to cultivation? —Tes. 1083. Do you think the present proprietors would cultivate ? —Tes, I do. 1084. Mr. Wright.] I think, under the present proposal it was intended to carry this line 16 miles up the valley? —Tes. , 1085. Do you think an extension of 8 or 10 miles would induce the cultivation of the land you have referred to ? —No doubt it would to a great extent, but not so much as if it were extended 16 miles. It would save a day's haulage for the carts, and the carriers could return to their homes the same day. 1086. That is, the extension of 10 miles would enable the settlers in the upper part of the valley to make a trip to the station and back the same day ?—Tes, neai'ly so. 1087. Can you give any information as to the quality of the coal existing in that valley ? —No. I produce a specimen of the coal I have burned for fifteen months in my kitchen-range. 1088. What does that coal cost you per ton at the present time ? —lt just costs me the cartage, as it is on my own property. The man working the pit allows me to take what quantity I like, as a royalty, for my own consumption. 1089. Mr. Iteid.] Can you say what the cost of the carriage of grain is for a distance of 10 miles ? —No, I could not state the present rates. 1090. The Chairman.] There are, we are informed, about 30,000 acres of land that would be affected by this railway still in the hands of the Crown. In your opinion, if a railway were constructed would that land bo sought for or purchased at the present price of £2 an aero ?—-I could not say; it would depend on the prosperity or otherwise of the country. Two years ago, when the country was prosperous, the land would have been sold in a week with the prospect of having this railway. 1091. Then it is not land that is unpurchased simply for want of communication?—No, it is pastoral land ; but still, the extension of the railway would enhance its value considerably. 1092. What is the height of the land above the sea-level ? —lt is a low basin. 1093. lam referring to the unsold pastoral land ? —I should think about 1,200 feet. 1094. Would there be any great proportion of it ploughable ?—About one-third of it would be plougbable. All the flat tops would be ploughable. 1095. What is the quality of the soil on those tops ? —lt is all of good quality. 1096. Is it limestone ? —Part of it is limestone, and part of it is of slate formation. Mr. Samuel Geeen sworn and examined. 1097. The Chairman.] Do you know the Waihao Valley ?■ —Tes. I live in Deep Creek, and I know the Waihao Valley for the last twelve years. 1098. Tou are a carrier ? —I have been a carrier, but lam now farming. 1099. What does it cost to bring grain down to the Waihao Valley, a distance of 10 miles ?—I have paid £1 per ton for a distance of 17 miles. 1100. Are the roads good in the district ? —Tes, pretty fair. 1101. Tou have heard the evidence given as to the country and the quality of the soil: are you able to confirm what has been stated ?—Tes. What has been stated is correct, according to my judgment. I may state that the cost of the coal at the pit's mouth is 10s. per ton. I have 1,000 tons of , grain to bring to Waimate this year. 9—E. 3.
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Mr. Fkattk Slee sworn and examined. 1102. The Chairman.] You are secretary to the "VVaimato Railway Company ?—Yes. 1103. Can you tell the Commission the outlay the Company has incurred since its formation ?—A little over £16,000. 1104. Does that £16,000 include preliminary expenses and surveys? —It does. 1105. And also the loss on the importation of the rails and rolling-stock?—Tes. 1106. Does it include any other items? —No ; those are the only items. 1107. Mr. Clark.] Are there any outstanding liabilities of the Company ? —There are outstanding liabilities to the extent of £L3,000. 1108. Included in the £16,000 ?—Tes. 1109. From that amount the proceeds of the plant sold have to be deducted ?—Tes ; the proceeds of the plant sold amount to about £12,000. 1110. Mr. Wright.] Do you not rather mean that the £13,000 is assets ? —There is a sum of £12,000 owing by the Government for rails and plant purchased. There is a sum of £13,000 due to the National Mortgage and Agency Company. 1111. Would the promoters of this railway be content to put up with this loss of £4,000 if the Government undertook to carry out the line as a Government line ? —I cannot say what the promoters would do, as I am only secretary. 1112. Are there any of the directors here? —Tes, they are all here. 1113. Mr. Meid.] Have the Company any other assets except the debt from the Government ? —No, nothing. 1114. So that there would be a clear loss of £4,000 ? —Tes ; as nearly as possible. 1115. Mr. Clark.] Of this loss of £4,000, if I understand you aright, the sum of £3,000 is made up of loss on importing the plant? —There are the preliminary expenses, such as surveys and working plans, solicitor's expenses, loss on the plant, interest on renewal bills, and commission. 1116. Did the preliminary expenses, including survey, amount to about £1,000 of that sum, or more ? —I can hardly say without referring to the books, but I should think fully that amount. 1117. Has any money been paid for the indent of the plant, or does the £13,000 owing represent the full cost of the plant with the indent expenses ? —All, with the exception of freights. Some of the freights have been paid, and some small sums. 1118. Does the £12,000 due by the Government include the freights which the Company paid?— Tes, all, excepting certain portions which the Government did not allow, and which do not amount to a great deal. 1119. In the event of the Government taking up the line, what proportion of the expenditure do you consider would be actually valuable to the Government, or what beneficial results would the Government derive from the £4,000 which the Company is supposed to have spent ? —-None whatever. 1120. The surveys would be of value?—Yes; of course the surveys would be of value to the Government. The surveys cost between £400 and £500. lam not quite certain; but, speaking from memory, that is the cost. I will furnish the Commission with an exact statement of the amounts expended by the Company. 1121. The Chairman'] Had the Company any subscribed capital paid up ?—I will furnish this information in writing. 1880. Receipts and to bis Received. £ s. d. 1880. Cost and Expenditube. £ s. d. To Casli paid up on shares by calls ... 3,493 15 0' By Cost of plant, freight, commission, in- „ Cash for rails sold to Oaniaru Harbour terest, percentage, and all charges Hoard ... ... ... ... 182 12 9 made by the National Mortgage and ~ Amount to be paid by General Govern- Agency Company ... ... 14,133 2 4 ment for plant ... ... ...11,815 5 8 „ Cash paid, legal expenses ... ... 220 18 9 „ Amount to be returned by General „ Cash paid, surveys ... ... ... 395 0 0 Government for freight, &c. ... 627 4 3 „ Cash paid, local freight, railway charges, Harbour Board, wharfage, haulage, and insurance ... ... ... 726 8 9 ~ Cash paid, advertising, petty cash, secretary's salary, stationery, &c. ... 493 5 7 „ Cash paid Revising Officer, Returning Officer, and computer ... ... 67 10 6 „ Balance ... ... ... ... 82 11 9 £16,118 17 8 £ltyUgJg 8 The Commission will see by the above that the total expenditure, cost of plant, Ac, is £16,036 ss. lid., which, deducting amount to be received from Government for plant and return of freight, &c. (£12,442 9s. lid.), and deducting amount received from Oamaru Harbour Board for rails (£lB2 12s. 9d.), leaves a loss to the Company of £3,411 3s. 3d. There will still be a further loss as interest (to the National Mortgage and Agency Company) to the Company on the unpaid portion, which the Government has to pay. Mr. John Douglas sworn and examined. 1122. The Chairman.] Are you one of the directors of the Company ?—No, lam not; but I hold shares in the Company. 1123. Tou wish to give some information in connection with the railway ?—Tes. The information I wish to give refers to a question asked with respect to the likelihood of the land being obtained free through which the railway would pass. I bought a property from Mr. Parker, and the line is surveyed through it. Ido not pay for the land over which the lino is to pass, so that it was really reserved from the sale. 1124. Mr. Wright.] Is there any covenant on the part of Mr. Parker to convey that land to the Eailway Company ? —He reserved the land from sale to me, and the purpose for which it -was reserved is set forth in the conveyance to me.
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1125. Can you state whether the landowners in the valley will give the land free for the railway ? —I feel quite confident that they will. 112(5. The Chairman.'] Is there any other point that you desire to mention? —1 might remark that the quality of the land in the "Waihao Valley is as good as any, if not the best, I have seen in the Australian colonies. 1127. Are you able to form an estimate of the traffic likely to be secured to the line ?—The traffic would be very great. It would hinge, no doubt, to some extent, upon the prices ruling for grain; but, under ordinary circumstances, I feel confident that, with railway communication, it would be very large indeed, because there is a very large area of land most admirably suited for growing all sorts of cereals. 1128. There are both stone and coal in the district ? —Tes. The supply of stone is unlimited, and would be very valuable if a railway were passing along the surveyed line, as the quarries abut on that line. As to the quality of the stone, I may state that a dwelling-house at the Waihao home-station, built in 1863 by Messrs. Parker Brothers, and now owned by me, was built of that stone. The pillars of the oriel windows are as sharp in the edge now as they were when put up sixteen years ago, proving conclusively that the stone is durable, and of the very best quality. 1129. Mr. Clarh.~] How does it compare with the stone which is at present quarried and shipped from Oamaru ?—lt is similar in appearance to the Oamaru stone, but there is more grit in it. It is a more durable stone, and more difficult to cut, from the fact that there is more sand in it, and not such a large proportion of lime. Mr. Pabkeb recalled and further examined. 1130. Mr. Wright.'] Was the land purchased by Mr. Douglas purchased from you ?—Tes. 1131. And the strip reserved for a railway is now vested in you ? —The land is reserved under covenant for the purpose of a railway. If no railway ever went that way, after a certain number of years 1 presume Mr. Douglas would pay for the land. 1132. The land now vesting in you, would you be prepared to convey it free of cost to the Governme nt?—Certainly I would. I understood when the Company was formed that all the landowners affected by the railway, with the exception of the owner of a small section, were willing to give the land required for the railway. I cannot say whether they are willing to do so now, but I think they would. Mr. Nayloe Hillaey sworn and examined. 1133. The Chairman^ You are Engineer for the county ?—Tes. 1134. Are you well acquainted with the Waihao District ? —Tes. 1135. Tou have heard the evidence given by others : are you able to confirm the opinions expressed? —Tes. 1136. With regard to the lignite, have you had any opportunities of judging of its quality? —Tes. I produce two samples —one from Shag Point, and the other from Waihao. The Waihao coal is as good as that obtained from Shag Point. It is found in large quantities, within accessible distance of the line of railway, in layers of from 2 feet 6 inches to 10 feet in thickness. 1137. Are you an expert in minerals ? —Tes. 1138. Tou understand the quality of Coal ?—Tes. 1139. Then, with regard to the stone ?—The stone is found in large quantities both at the upper portion of the Waihao and alongside the railway line, about 8 miles distant from Waimate. 1140. Is it good building-stone ? —Tes. I produce samples of the stone. 1141. Is it equal in quality to the Oamaru stone? —It is a better stone. 1142. Mr. Wright.] On whoso property is this stone chiefly found ?—One of these pieces came from Mr. Allan McLean's property, and the other from Mr. Douglas's property. 1143. On whose property was the coal obtained ? —lt is from Mr. Studholme's property. Coal is found on the property of Messrs. Studholme, Lees, McGregor, Parker, and Douglas. 1144. Can it be worked from drives without the expense of pumping ? —Tes. I produce a sample of pipeclay from the Waihao Valley. It is found beneath the lignite. It dries in the atmosphere, and forms stone. It will become very useful for ornamental work. I also produce a piece of limestone, which is found in large quantities, and is suitable for burning. 1145. Is it found convenient to the line of the projected railway ? —About half a mile from it. 1146. How far from Waimate? —About 6 miles. 1147. The Chairman.] In your opinion, the proposed line offers no serious difficulties in construction? —None whatever. 1148. No heavy bridges to make? —No. There would be one bridge of about 30 or 40 feet span. 1149. Is that in the first section of 8 miles ?—Tes. 1150. The gradients would be good throughout? —Tes. 1151. Mr. Wright.] Can you say what the heaviest gradient would be ?—-The heaviest gradient is 1 in 60 for about 20 chains in length. 1152. The Chairman.] In your opinion, if the line were constructed for 8 miles would it be of considerable benefit to those occupying laud beyond that length, even though the line were not constructed for 16 miles ? —Tes, it would. 1153. Do the roads converge on the proposed terminus of the first section of 8 miles?—They do. 1154. The Chairman: I understand that some of the directors of the Company are present. Do they wish to make any statement as to the Company's claim upon the Government for outlay on surveys or other expenses incurred? 1155. Mr. McGregor (after a brief consultation with the directors) : I am authorized to state that the directors of the Company have agreed to forego the loss already sustained provided the Government agree to construct the line, or a section of 8 miles.
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Timabtt, Fktday, 23rd Apkii, 1880. A deputation, consisting of his Worship the Mayor (Captain Sutter), Mr. Turnbull, M.H.E., Messrs. Jonas, D. McLean, Stubbs, W. Evans, and H. Green, waited upon the Commission. Mr. Wilmam Eyans, merchant, Timaru, sworn and examined. 1156. The, Chairman.] I understand you wish to bring under the notice of the Commission the insufficiency of station-accommodation in Timaru ?—Tes. During the last two or three years this matter has been frequently brought before different Ministers of Public Works, and they have all admitted the necessity of having extended accommodation. We have been placed at a great disadvantage, owing to the want of proper railway facilities. Among other disadvantages there is a nasty turn in the line to the south. The Government sometime since sent up Mr. Oalcutt to value the land, and, after examining the land, he wrote to me stating that if the owners would accept £4,000 —which would be at the rate of £2,000 an acre —ho would take action to secure a site for the extension of the railway station. That letter was dated 6th March last. A meeting of the Chamber of Commerce was held, and the Mayor and myself were appointed to interview the owners of the land, and we succeeded in getting them to agree to a reduction of between £700 and £800 on what they originally demanded. Since then I have not seen Mr. Oalcutt, and we have heard nothing more about the matter. The Grey Government got the embankment at the back of the railway station cut away, but nothing more has been done in the matter. When Mr. Oliver was down here some time ago, he promised that some extra sidings would be put on, but up to the present that has not been done. The grain season is now upon us, and there will be great difficulty in working the line. When there are a large number of trucks on the line shunting is almost impossible. 1157. Is there any difference of opinion locally as to the alterations required P —Not at all. So far as I am aware, the whole community are unanimous in the opinion that the work is very much required, and the only drawback is the procuring of this land from the present owners. 1158. Are you of opinion that the land can be acquired from the present owners for £4,000 ? —I cannot say for £4,000; but they agreed to take about £800 less than they asked when Mr. Calcutt was here. 1159. What did they ask when Mr. Calcutt was here ? —About £8,000. I believe the property could be acquired at the present time for £5,000. At present the railway is dangerous to work, owing to the round turn, because trains cannot be seen either coining in or going out. The Government have already made another cutting a quarter of a mile farther south, for the workshops. 1160. Is not the store-accommodation here at present chiefly in private hands ?—Tes. There is a sort of railway goods shed, but there is no accommodation in that except from day to day. 1161. Mr. Wright.'] Is the land required for station-extension situate south of the station?—■ Yes ; between the station and Bruce's Mill. It is proposed to take the clay away from there, and put it out for reclamation works on the beach, so as to give more extension for the railway. 1182. What is the depth of the land which it is proposed to purchase ?—About two acres altogether of the sections fronting the beach. 1163. Would not £4,000 an acre be an excessive price for land in that position ?—No. I may state that the Government valuators for the land-tax valued the land at a great deal more. 1164. From your knowledge of the locality can you say whether it is practicable for the Government to reclaim sufficient land outside the line of railway without purchasing those sections ? —lt would be very inconvenient to do so. If this land were obtained, the clay would be within a few yards of the reclamation, and could be very easily distributed over the land. 1165. If the clay is not taken from this land which is valued at £4,000 an acre, could it not be obtained from the cuttiug half a mile away ? —Tes; but the yards could not be properly worked without having the straight run. 1166. Would the proposed alterations involve the purchase of any buildings ? —No ; except two or three small tenements. 1167. Would they interfere in any way with existing wai-ehouses ?—-No. The Government have had a complete survey made of the land required. I may also add that the passenger-accommodation is simply wretched for a large place like Timaru. 1168. The Chairman.~\ Have you any evidence to offer with regard to the proposed extension of the Albury line ?—The Albury line is a very good feeder to the main line, and it is about the bestpaying inland line that we have in the Middle Island; but it'could be made to pay very much better, and it would afford great facilities to farmers, if it were extended to Fairlie Creek. 1169. If the line were extended as far as Fairlie Creek, would it increase the area of graingrowing country? —Tes, lam sure it would. I hold a tract of country there myself, and farm it. At the present time we are keeping back our grain in anticipation of getting the line finished by the end of the season. I dare say there are others in the same position. 1170. Mr. Wright.] Are you acquainted with the Mackenzie country ?—Tes. 1171. Do you think any extensive portion of that country would be available for agriculture if the railway were carried to Fairlie Creek or Burke's Pass?—lf the railway were carried up to Burke's Pass I believe a great deal of the land there would be available for agriculture. 1172. Is the land in the Mackenzie country fit for agriculture ?—Tes. 1173. Mr. Clar7c] What distance would farmers in the Mackenzie country have to cart their grain? —From 15 to 25 miles in order to bring it to a railway station. 1174. Mr. Beid.~\ What is the length of the Pass ? —About sor 6 miles. There is some very good land in the Pass itself, but it is limited. I think there could not be much cultivation beyond the Pass for some time. 1175. 'j.he Chairman.] When you speak of agricultural land in the Mackenzie country do you mean wheat-growing land ?—Tes. 1176. Are the climate and soil in the Mackenzie country both suitable for wheat ? —Tes. On this side of Burke's Pass, just beyond Fairlie Creek, there is a large flat called Alswick Flat, eon-
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taining about 10,000 acres. An immense quantity of wool is sent down every year from the Mackenzie country, and of course that would help to make the railway pay. At present it has to be carted in teams. 1177. Mr. Beid.] Does not the wool come to Albury at present ?—Yes, it comes from Albury by rail; but still, it would afford great facility if the railway were extended. 1178. Mr. Wright."] Can you state how many thousand bales of wool come down annually from the Mackenzie country? —It is the largest wool-growing country in South Canterbury. 1179. The Chairman.'] Does not a large quantity of the wool grown in the Mackenzie country go to Duntroon Station? —Yes, at present; but some of that wool would be diverted if the Albury line were extended. 1.180. Mr. Meid."\ "Would it benefit the runholders to send it here rather than south ? —lt would be more convenient and less expensive, because this is the shortest route. 1181. Including the extra charge an shipping here ? —The charges for shipping here are the same as they are at Oamaru. A shilling a ton would be the greatest difference. The charge here is 4s. a ton. 1182. Is not the charge so much per bale ? —Yes ; 9d. a bale for shipping. 1183. The Chairman.] Is there any other traffic likely to arise from this railway, either in the shape of stone or coal ?—Not that I am aware of. Mr. Maek Jonas, auctioneer, sworn and examined. 1184. The Chairman.'] Do you wish to make any statement with regard to the station-site ?— Yes. Any person who has lived in this district for a length of time, and is acquainted with the amount of railway traffic, must be convinced of the necessity of having a better station erected immediately. At present the want of proper station-accommodation renders it dangerous for people to travel on the line; and, if any accident does happen, the authorities will be very blamable. It is very creditable to the stationmaster and others working the line that no accident has yet occurred. The residents here are not asking any very great favour from the Government, as the traffic is quite sufficient to pay for proper station-accommodation. 1185. Can you give any evidence with respect to the proposed extension of the Albury line? —I would simply draw attention to the small amount of extra cost for construction which would be required for the extension of the line from Fairlie Creek to Burke's Pass. There are no bridges of any kind to be erected, and the land is quite level. Mr. Heney GrEEEir, merchant, Timaru, sworn and examined. 1186. The Chairman.'] Do you wish to give any evidence regarding the station-accommodation at Timaru?—The station is very small, although it is the main station between Christchurch and Dunedin. Timaru is the only place where passengers can have luncheon ; but there is nothing like the accommodation which is required. The refreshment-rooms are not large enough, and the private accommodation is simply disgraceful. The platform is a great deal too small, and when there is a crowd of people waiting for trains females and children are in great danger. Furthermore, there is no accommodation hero for placing horses and cattle on the railway trucks; and if horses have to be put on a train they are led along the passenger platform, although at the same time the platform may be dangerously crowded. There is no proper accommodation for goods in connection with the station. There is no weighbridge at the station, and not a single crane. Considering that this ia a very important station, I think the station-accommodation is anything but adequate to our requirements. 1187. Mr. Wright.~\ Have not promises been made from time to time that a more commodious station would be erected here? —Mr. Macandrew made promises on two or three occasions, and I believe a sum was placed on the estimates for the purpose. 1188. Has not an excavation been made with a view to the removal of the station ? —Yes; two excavations have been made —one at Mr. Turnbull's place, for the engine sheds, and another at the present station, for the purpose of bringing the station-buildings back and straightening the line. Mr. F. "W. Sttjbbs, commission agent, and Valuator under the Land-Tax Act, sworn and examined. 1189. The Chairman.] Are you acquainted with the country that will be served by the extension of the Albury line ?—Yes. 1190. "What do you think is the extent of that country ? —From Albury to Fairlie Creek I think there would be 30,000 acres. That is between Brothers Hill and the main range. Beyond Fairlie Creek there are about 50,000 to 60,000 acres. Almost the whole of it is good agricultural land. There is no land in Burke's Pass or beyond it which would be any good. There may be somo flats there; but Ido not think they would be fit for agriculture, because it is too cold. In the Mackenzie country there are about a million acres, but it will be years before that land is'cultivated. It is very good land, but the climate is cold, and it is too far to cart produce. I believe you could plough fiveeighths of the Mackenzie country ; but it is a long way off, and it is very cold. A firm in Dunedin owns 22,000 acres there, between Pukeko and Tekapo; and there are several other large blocks which have been bought by private individuals. The whole of the country between Silverstream and Albury is agricultural land. The greater part of it is now under crop. 1191. Is the district well furnished with roads, so as to bring grain to the railway station at Fairlie Creek? —Yes ; there are good roads all over the district. 1192. Do all those roads converge to Fairlie Creek ? —They do. 1193. Is there any agricultural land still in the hands of the Crown in that district ?—There is some; but Ido not think there is any very large quantity in the hands of the Crown an3 rwhere on this side of the main range. The larger part of it is now freehold. 1194. Mr. Wright.] Can you say whether any cereal crops have been grown in the Mackenzie country? —I have myself seen several very good crops of oats. I believe all the stations there grow their own oats.
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1195. You Lave stated that there are several thousands of acres of Crown laud in the Mackenzie country ? —-Yes ; any quantity of it, and it is very fine land. 1196. Would the construction of the line as far as Silverstream promote the sale of the land in the Mackenzie country ? —I do not know: 1197. What is the height of the Mackenzie country? —About 1,500 feet. Mr. Donald McLean, auctioneer, sworn and examined. 1198. The Chairman.] Are you able to give us any information as to the transport of cattle by the railway?—Yes. We have been put to great inconvenience on account of there being no cattle-yards south of Temuka nor on this side of Palmerston. The consequence is, that when we truck cattle from here we have to provide ourselves with hurdles, and convey them at great risk. If we are sending cattle farther south we have to send them back to Temuka, where there are yards. There is a little business done between Temuka and the north, but nothing as compared with what is done between here and the southern part of the province and Ocago, which is our principal outlet. Orari and other small places have yards; but wo have nothing here. We are consequently put to very great expense and trouble. The Waimate District is one of the largest "cattle-growing districts in the country, but they have got no yards and no convenience. The people there have to supply their own hurdles. Nearly all the cattle from that district go south. At certain convenient stations yarda ought to be made. Ido not think any cattle-owners would grudge driving 5, or even 10 miles ; but when they have to drive 20 or 30 miles to get to the railway it is very inconvenient. JN ro convenience of any kind is afforded at present. 1199. Are there platforms at the sidings for sheep and cattle ? —Yes ; but there are no enclosures. The platforms are quite suitable, but they are used for grain and general traffic, and are not specially for stock. This is now getting to be a verv great stock district. We are sending a large quantity of stock north and south, and we pay a very fair price for carriage; so that I think it is only fair we should have something in the way of accommodation. 1200. Are you aware whether there are any railway reserves available for yards, or would land have to be acquired for the purpose ?—So far as the south line is concerned, there is any amount of land reserved. 1 wish to add that at the Timaru Station horses have to be taken over the passenger platform —very often when the platform is thronged with people. 1201. Mr. Wright.] Have any representations been made to the railway authorities as to the inconvenience caused by the want of those yards ? —I have spoken about it privately myself, but not to the Grovernment. 1202. Has any formal written application been made on the subject? —The Chamber of Commerce made an application ; and I made an application privately. I am almost certain that Mr. Studholme made an application on his own account. 1203. Has any application been made through the member for the district ?—I do not know. 1204. In driving stock 20 or 30 miles alongside the railway to a convenient place for loading them, the railway of course loses the carriage of the stock for that mileage?—Yes; and it is a very tedious matter now to drive stock compared with what it used to be when the land was all open, and there were no roadside fences. Now you have to pay for paddocks for your cattle as you go along; so that it is not only inconvenient, but expensive.
Ashbubton, Satuedax, 24th Apeil, 18S0. A deputation, consisting of Mr. Hugo Friedlander, Mayor ; Councillors E. Saunders, Andrew Orr, .7. St. Hill, Thomas Bullock ; Messrs. John Grigg, F. B. Passmore, John Carter, James Jamieson, and P. Cox, waited upon the Commission. 1205. Mr. John Grigg made the following statement: Some of the residents of the district and members of the Town Couucil have appeared before the Commission with the view of bringing under their notice several matters of pressing importance. The first matter is the very inadequate accommodation at the station. A waiting-room for ladies travelling by first and second class carriages is much wanted; also, increased accommodation and siding for goods. There are often five trains at the station at one time. Better lighting is urgently required. Trains arrive late at night, and there is almost no light whatever provided. The Gas Company's works are now in good order, and it would be an easy matter to lay on gas at the railway station. A clock is also much required. Great confusion is caused by persons being unable to ascertain the correct time at the station. The stationmaster should be required to wear a distinguishing badge, so that he could be easily recognized. The urinals should be removed and drained. They are close to the ladies' waiting-room and to the platform, and are very offensive indeed. Bells should be rung, as in America, when trains are passing over so many crossings in the town. The mere blowing of the whistle at a distance does not appear to be sufficient. At present there is much risk of accidents occurring, and I know of one or two instances of very narrow escapes. The approach to the bridge should be altered by the gates being removed to the bottom of the approach, and the inner line of fence removed. The approach is very narrow, and a cart could not possibly turn. The driver would have to back the vehicle. In the case of a horse drawing a load of timber, when turning round the ends of the long pieces would actually touch the engine, and the result might be a serious accident. It has been suggested that bars might be substituted for gates. The bars could be easily swung. They would cost very little, whereas the gates cost about £15 or £20 each. The sites for coal and timber require attention.- Some of these sites are occupied with buildings, close up to the crossings, which shut out the view of the approaching trains. We would ask that the iron store, which completely shuts out the view of the trains, might be removed. There is a matter which the merchants and grain-buyers feel very much: When grain is loaded from the private sidings, the Railway Department refuse to give any receipts, or to send any person to tally the loading of the trucks. The Railway Department should provide sufficient shed-accommodation for the immense quantity of grain which is removed in the railway trucks, and should give receipts for the quantity taken. The
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grain-merchants are quite willing to pay the Railway Department the cost that would be incurred in tallying the grain put into the trucks. They are unable to get this done, consequently, whatever becomes of the grain, they have no remedy against the Government. We hope the Commission will seriously consider this as being a very important matter. It has been suggested that a few extra hands might be taken on during the grain season, and that such a charge might be made as would cover the whole cost. We would draw your attention to the fact that there is no station erected on the Mount Somers line, and, consequently, there is a very great loss of traffic, which would pay onehalf the cost of erecting a station. During the slack season of the year there should be a lower tariff, or a considerable allowance made on bulky produce, such as potatoes, hay, and chaff. This would greatly increase the traffic. A very large quantity of this produce would be sent by rail if the charge was more moderate. Perhaps the most important matter is the extension of the line of railway to Mount Somers. The Commissioners may not be aware of the resources of that district. There is a large seam of coal, about 35 or 40 feet deep, and very easily obtained. The coal could be produced at a very cheap rate. There is also a very large forest, consisting of thousands of acres, at the foot of the mountain. A verv large quantity of grain and wool would come down that line ; in fact, the line would lead to a large part of the back country. There are two lines of railway proposed —-one is the extension of the Rakaia and Mount Somers line, and the other is the Tinwald and Mount Somers line. We wish to draw your particular attention to the desirability of one of these lines being constructed as far as the coalpits as soon as possible. It is evidently one of the most important works in this province at the present time. With regard to freight charges, we would remark that, no matter what the cost of haulage is, the freight charged is the same. I find that the cost of freight of grain from Otaio, the same distance from Port Chalmers as from Lyttelton, is the same, whereas the cost of haulage would be greater in the one case than in the other. Some consideration should be given to the actual cost of haulage. Double the quantity of produce could be brought by the same engine from Otaio to Lyttelton as from Otaio to Port Chalmers. I think that in all fairness there should be a proportionate rate with regard to the actual cost of haulage. Mr. Chables PfiECt Cox sworn and examined. 1206. The Chairman.~\ What are you ?—I am a land and estate agent. 1207. Do you know the requirements of the railway with regard to station accommodation ? —Tes. 1208. You are able to state to the Commission what the position and wants of the station are ?—r Tes. lam very frequently travelling up and down, and am also close to the railway. Being on the bench, I have always more cases brought before me in connection with the railway than from any other cause, arising from the great inconvenience felt from the crowded state of the platform at the station. On several occasions there have been very narrow escapes from accidents. The trains cross generally here. There are generally two trains, and sometimes in the morning as many as five trains arrive together. A serious accident occurred about twelve months ago. On that occasion five trains all came to the station within a few minutes of each other. The sidings were completely full. I believe they shunted into an unusual position that day: they shunted at the north end of the station instead of, as usual, at the south end. The consequence was, that on the express train coming up the points were incorrect, and it ran into one of these trains. The inadequate accommodation at the station is the main thing I wish to speak about. The platform is always in a very crowded state. Any one in the habit of seeing it can testify to the great danger arising from its crowded state. The station master and some of his assistants could give you most valuable and reliable information on that point. 1209. Mr. Wright.'] Perhaps you could give some information as to the thickness and extent of the coal-seam at Mount Somers ? —I worked the coal-seam at Mount Somers for twelve or fourteen years. The thickness of seam exposed is about 40 feet. It is very good lignite, and, with railway communication, it would be very largely used. The Springfield coal, from the Malvern Hills, is now being brought in a distance of about 75 miles to this district, and the coal from the Shag Valley Colliery is brought in from a greater distance. If the line were opened to Mount Somers, there would be coal, equally as good as that obtained at Shag Point, brought from a distance of 25 miles into the district. There is also building-stone of very good quality at Mount Somers. It was selected by the Christchurch Cathedral Commission as being the best building-stone submitted to them. I sent samples of the stone to Melbourne, and I have the reports of several builders and architects there upon it. They reported its value for ornamental purposes at about 4s. 6d. per foot. I believe a very large quantity of it would be used if this railway were constructed. There is also a large forest, about 13 miles long, and averaging some 3 or 4 miles in width. It would provide a plentiful supply of timber for fencing and firewood at a very much reduced price to what is now paid over the whole of the Plains. The railway would also open up a very large extent of very fine agricultural land. A large quantity of other minerals are believed to exist in the hills in that neighbourhood. 1210. The Chairman] What would be the length of the extension required to reach the coal mine you refer to from the present terminus ?—About 16 or 17 miles: I think it would be within 20 miles, or within SO miles from Ashburton. 1211. Are there any severe gradients there to be got over ?—No severe gradients. There is a considerable rise from the sea to the foot of the hills —something like 1,000 feet in about 25 miles. There are no rivers to cross; there are only a few creeks. 1212. It has not been surveyed the whole way to the coal mine ? —No. The whole of the land up to within a mile of the pits is a gradual incline. A bridge would be required over the south branch of the Ashburton. 1213. Mr. Wright.'] To what extent would the construction of this line, by making the coal available, reduce the price of coal in the Ashburton District?—l should think it would reduce the price nearly one-half, or perhaps more. The present price of Springfield coal is 40s. per ton. I think the line of railway would reduce it to 20s. per ton. 1214. The Chairman.] Is the Mount Somers coal mine on private property ? —Tes. 1215. Do you believe that a company would be started, or that the proprietor would mine it him« gelf?—He would either mine it or lease it. It is at present being worked under lease.
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1216. Mr. Clar7c.~] Do you know the terms on which this coal lease is worked at present as regards royalty ? —I rather think it is held on lease now. It was worked on a royalty. 1217. Do you know the length of the present lease? —It was let for three years, which have expired. Ido not know the term for which it has been relet. 1218. In referring to the estimate of the value of the Mount Somers stone in Melbourne, you said that it was valued at 4s. 6d. per foot. That, I presume, is when delivered in Melbourne? —Yes. 1219. Have you ever calculated the cost of carriage and freight of the stone delivered in Melbourne, so as to ascertain the value of it in blocks at the mine ?—At that time I got it carried at from 4d. to 6d. per foot. I could not tell what the cost would be now. 1220. I wish to know what the cost of conveying it to Melbourne from the mine would be, so as to see what margin of profit would be left ?—At that time 4s. 6d. per foot would be wholly absorbed by carriage, which is a great expense. Oamaru stone is delivered in Christchurch at Is. 9d., including cartage. 1221. Then the cartage was the most expensive part in working the stone? —Tes. The stone which was used in this district cost Is. 6d. per foot for haulage. 1222. Can you specify what other minerals there are in the district in addition to coal and stone, and what prospects there are of any industries beinsr developed in connection with those minerals?— There is abundance of slate. Specimens of coppe? ore have been found, but we do not know the locality they came from. 1223. Mr. Wright.'] Have you at any time received evidence from competent judges as to the relative value of the Oamaru and Mount Somers stone in the Melbourne market ?—I have only the reports I received from Melbourne at the time I sent over a few tons of specimens. I then received one or more reports from skilled architects and builders in Melbourne. That is the only reliable information I have. 1224. What was the nature of their reports? —To the effect that the stone was exceedingly valuable, and worth 4s. 6d. per foot. My woolshed, which was built of this stone, has been erected some fourteen or fifteen years. When the Christchurch Cathedral Commission asked for samples of stone, I had a corner sawn off my woolshed, and I sent it to them. The cuts were as fresh and sharp as when the building was erected. 1225. Have you any reports regarding the relative value of Mount Somers stone and Oamaru stone ?—lt has been stated by Christchurch builders that the Mount Somers stone is very much superior to the Oamaru stone. 1226. Mr. Reid.~] Can you give any accurate estimate of the quantity of agricultural land that would be opened up by this line ?■ —I should say an area of 20 miles by 15 miles would be opened up ; and then there is a very large back-country. There are about 40 or 50 miles of country behind the hills occupied as sheep-runs, and three or four thousand bales of wool come down to Ashburton every year. 1227. What is the elevation of that land ?—From 1,500 to 2,000 feet above the sea. 1228. Could cereals be grown in that part of the country with advantage ? —Oats have been grown for use there. Very large tracts of that country have been bought during the last year or two. I cannot say that cereals could be grown with advantage. This statement refers to the back country outside of the 20 miles I have mentioned. G-ood grain can be grown for 30 miles from Ashburton. Mr. Hugo Feiedlandee sworn and examined. 1229. The Ohairman.~\ Will you state what you know of the practice of loading wagons from private sidings ?—Some time ago the merchants were induced to put up private stores to facilitate the removal of grain, as the railway accommodation was not sufficient. They were then told that an allowance would be made to them for loading and discharging the trucks, and that receipts were to be given the same as if the goods or grain were delivered at the railway goods station. The original amount allowed to grain-merchants was 9d. per ton for loading, and 9d. per ton for discharging. It has now been reduced to 6cl. per ton, which does not cover the cost. There are no receipts given for the quantities, and the Railway Department is not in any way responsible for any deficiency. Last year I drew the attention of the stationmaster here to the fact that several sacks had fallen off the trucks with our brands on them. I then made a claim on the Eailway Department, and stated that the stationmaster would be able to bear me out that two sacks had fallen off the trucks. But they refused to entertain the claim, and they would not make up the loss. This year I proposed to pay for a clerk, or some one to keep tally of the sacks, but I have not heard anything in reply. 1230. Are you aware whether the railway crossings in the town are dangerous or otherwise? —Tes. There are two main crossings, the Tancred-Street crossing and the Burnet-Street crossing. The crossing in Tancred Street is the most dangerous. A very large etore there shuts out a view of the train approaching from the south, which makes the crossing still more dangerous. The Burnet-Street crossing is also dangerous on account of the large heaps of coal piled up on the coal-site, which also shuts out a view of the train. 1231. A proposal has been made that the tariff should be reduced during the quiet season of the year ? —Tes. 1232. Are you in a position to say whether that would be likely to increase the traffic ? —I am confident that it will when coming from Christchurch. Tou can notice that along the line large fields of potatoes are grown. This is within a distance of 7or 8 miles from Christchurch. After that you lose sight of the potato-fields altogether. This is no doubt on account of the heavy railway tariff', which shuts out people living too far away from any shipping-port. Potatoes are generally delivered after the busy grain season is over, and when there is very little traffic on the railway. If inducements were given to people living far inland, there is no doubt they would grow potatoes to a large extent, and so increase the railway traffic. It would also be of very great benefit to the working-classes if they could grow 3or 4 acres of potatoes and sell them. It would occupy their time, and there would not be the cry of the " unemployed " as now, especially with regard to married people living in inland towns,
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if chaff were carried at a cheaper rate than at present, it would increase the value of the land, besides the increase it would give to the railway traffic. It would almost pay the expenses of working the line. At present the straw is quite useless, as the expense in taking it to a shipping-port is too great. 1233. Mr. Reid.] You have stated that if a lower tariff on the railway were in operation it would tend to increase the production of potatoes to a great extent. Is it not a fact that there are quite as many potatoes grown in New Zealand as are consumed; and that, in many cases, they are sold at a price that does not pay the grower —that they are sold at something like 80s. per ton? —It entirely depends on the crop. If it is an average crop, potatoes will pay at 30s. per ton. 1234. Do you know what the present charge on the railway is per mile ? —I believe it is 15s. or 16s. per ton from Ashburton to Christchurch. 1235. What reduction would be necessary in order to induce a greater production ? —.Fully onehalf, or Bs. per ton. 1236. Do you consider the reduction in the tariff would cause chaff to be more generally used than it is now ?—-Yes, I feel quite confident it would. There is one instance where men could have taken a contract here to deliver 200 tons of chaff in Christchurch. If the railway charge had been a little lower they could have accepted the contract. 1237. Is the straw grown 20 miles from Christchurch used in the form of chaff ? —Yes, it is all used, and is quite inadequate for the requirements. Within the last year or two every pound of straw has been cut up. The West Coast is supplied from this province. 1238. Mr. Wright."] Would the reduction you suggest should be made on the carriage of potatoes bring the rates below the price charged for the carriage of grain ? —Yes, it would bring the rates fully 3s. lower than the rates for carriage of grain. 1239. You suggest that this alteration should be made only after the grain season is over? —Yes. 1240. When the rate of 9d. per ton for loading and also for unloading was in force was not the charge of 2-jd. per ton per mile also in force ?—Yes. 1241. And the reduction from 9d. to 6d. was made at a time when the rate was reduced from 2|d. to 2d. ? —They did away with the rate of 9d. per ton altogether. After a deputation from the Chamber of Commerce had brought the matter before the Railway Department they made an allowance of 6d. per ton. 1242. Mr. Clark.'] Eeferring to the growth of potatoes, you say that the bulk of those grown for the Christchurch market are grown within 7 miles. Do you think that a difference of 10 miles' carriage by railway precludes potatoes from being grown at a profit ?—Yes. 1243. That is to say, that a difference of Is. Bd. per ton precludes potatoes from being grown ?— Ido not exactly say that within a radius of 10 miles it would preclude them from being grown; but a distance of 50 miles —the distance from Christchurch to Ashburton—would preclude potatoes from being grown. 1244. Can you quote the present market price of straw for chopping in Christchurch ?— £2 per ton can bo now obtained for oaten straw. Mr. John Geigg sworn and examined. 1245. The Chairman.'] Have you anything to add to what you have already stated to the Commission ? —I have frequently seen grain in the trucks in the rain without any covering. Recently I saw seventy trucks of grain at one time in heavy rain without covering, and the grain was going direct on board ship. Mr. Feank B. Passmore sworn and examined. 1246. The Chairman.] On what subject do you propose to give evidence?—On the extension of the district railway from Methven to the coal mine. The extension would form part of the Interior main line. It is a distance of about 12 miles from Methven to Mount Somers, and about 6 miles to the coal mine. There are no engineering difficulties of any kind, and the only work of any extent would be a bridge over the North Ashburton. The cost of coal in this district at present is almost prohibitory, because it has to come from Christchurch or Malvern, and the railway freight half-way up the district line amounts to about 12s. per ton. There is a great deal of firewood used south-east of Rakaia, for which the purchasers at present pay 60s. per cord, and it could be supplied at from 30s. to 335. if the line were extended. There would be a great trade in coal and stone, and of course there would be a very great saving in distance for all goods going to Christchurch. 1247. What progress has been made in the line from the Eakaia to Mount Somers? —It is working as far as Mothven. It is being worked by the Government. 1248. Tor passengers ? —Yes, for passengers arid goods. It was opened on the 26fch February. Its length is 22J miles. 1249. Mr. Wright.] On what terms is the line being worked by the Government ?—The permanent terms have not yet been arranged. They are working it now so as to get over the grain season, charging the Company for expenses. This is merely a temporary provision until definite arrangements are made. 1250. Does the Company receive the amount paid for the carriage of goods ?—No, not in the first instance. The Government officers are doing the whole work. They will then at a certain period give us a statement of receipts and expenditure, handing over to the Company the balance. 1251. Do they make any charge for wear and tear of rolling-stock ?'—lt is our own rolling-stock. The wagons are not ours. I was engineer for this railway, and I asked the Government the question how we were to provide the rolling-stock. The answer received was, that we were to find our own engines and carriages, but that all the wagons used were to be supplied by the Government, for which they would make a charge either by day or per mile. 1252. Has any definite agreement been come to between the Eailway Department and the Company as to what the charge for the wagons shall be ? —Not to my knowledge. 1253. The Chairman.] Has any public money been spent on this line?—None. 10—E. 3.
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1254. It has been constructed strictly under the provisions of the District Railways Act ?— Entirely. We did not even get the cost of the survey, which the Government have allowed in other cases. We applied for it, but got no answer to our letter. 1255. What is it you wish to urge on the Commission in connection with the line ? —That the portion of the Interior Main Line from Methyen southwards should be gone on with. 1256. That is to say, you urge the Government to extend your lino towards Mount Somersf — Yes; and for this reason :we wanted to extend it ourselves. Our former capital was £100,000, and, with the view of extending it, we got the capital raised to £200,000. The Government then objected to our going on, on the plea that our extension formed part of the Interior Main Line. 1257. Mr. Wright.] In point of fact, what you want is that the Government shall either make that section or allow the Company to make it ? —We want the Government to make it, not being now in so favourable a position to do it as we were before, through the action of the G-overnment. 1258. The Chairman.] Have you anything further to state ? —I would like to indorse Mr. Grigg's statement with' regard to sending away trucks of grain without a tarpaulin covering. I have seen long trains of grain entirely unprotected while it has been raining; and we have no redress. I have now received notice from persons to whom I sold my grain that a load of it is wet. This grain was put on the truck in a perfectly dry condition,
CIIKJSTCHTTHCH, MoKDAT, 26TH ApEIL, 1880. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of Sir J. Cracroft Wilson, C.8., K.5.1., Captain Hayter, Messrs. E. Wilkins, 11. 11. Hannah, James Lance, J. D. Leng, J. 11. Davidson, K. Bethel, and J. Tinline. Mr. J. Tibxine sworn and examined. 1259. The Chairman.] I understand you wish to give evidence with regard to the extension of the railway line from Amberley to Hurunui ?—Tes ; I have been deputed to place before the Commission certain statistics which we have gathered with regard to our district, and to produce a map of the country which will be affected by the railway. The map shows that portion which will be immediately benefited by the line between Amberloy and Waikari, the country which is altogether dependent upon this interior line in order to get its produce away, and the portion of the country which sends away its produce by sea. The country which is dependent upon the proposed railway to get its produce away is nearly as large as the Province of Taranaki. The following are the statistics which we have prepared:—
I would also like to point out to the Commissioners that the railway finished in Nelson, and also under construction to Roundell, is shown on this map. A railway is already constructed between Picton and Blenheim. By extending the railway to Hanmer Plains, there would be only 65 miles left to construct between the Hanmer Plains and Roundell. There would be no difficulty then in taking the railway from Tophousc to Blenheim, because it is a level valley all the way. It' the trunk line were carried into the interior in this manner, it would join all the. settlements, and open up nearly all Government land. I do not pretend to say that it is all very good land; but still, it is used for sheep-farming purposes. If the railway is taken by the coast it will never secure any traffic, because the produce of the various stations is taken away by sea from the various boat-harbours. I do not wish to place my opinion against that of engineers as to the cost of construction ; but at present we have a practicable dray-road from Waikari to Tarndale, and all the produce of the Upper Awatere is sent to Lyttelton. I would also point out that there are various reserves on this line of railway which we advdcate. On the south bank of the Hurunui there is a reserve of 3,536 acres, which might be made a special settlement at any moment. Then, if the railway were taken as far as Hanmer Plains there is a reserve there of 2,000 acres, most of which could be cultivated. 1260. Are the figures which you handed in obtained from official documents ? —Yes. I think it very desirable that the present railway should be opened as soon as possible. There is nothing to
Crown Lai Leas id under se. Freehold Land. To' ;als. Approximate Acreage of Forest Laud. District. Agricultural. Pastoral. Agricultural, Pastoral, Agricultural. Pastoral. Crown. Freehold. Native Native HantaEush. Bush. tion. lurunui Central Amuri Jpper Awatere (approximate) Acres. 1 0,000 24,000 Acres. 175,720 532,615 250,000 Acres. 45,000 116,000 Acres. 8,634 213,306 20,000 Acres. 55,000 140,000 Acres. 184,354 745,921 270,000 Acres. Acres. { 50,000 1,000 Acres. 250 Total ... 34,000 958,335 161,000 241,940 195,000 1,200,275 Value of ] of Lai Properties for id-Tax Act of purposes 1878. Live Stock. Public Roads in Use, in Miles. District. Gross Vi includi Improven |^ e ' NetVal aents. ImPrOT< iue, less ements. Sheep. Cattle. Horses. „ Bridleway- (racks. [urunui lentral Amuri Fpper Awatere (approximate) ... 3157512 937,806 86,000 £ 270,892 739,596 81,000 106,300 712 378,356 1,424 100,000 : 500 350 712 100 I 223 128 Total 1,339,318 1,091,488 586,658 2,G36 1,162
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prevent the opening of the railway to the Weka Pass, as the line to that point is now almost ready for ballasting. A temporary shed might be put up there, and I imagine that a great deal of ballast, which is now thrown away as useless, might be taken up in trucks.with one handling, and used for ballasting that portion of the line. 1261. Mr. Wright.~\ You are anxious that the lino should be opened without waiting for the completion of the line through the Pass?—Yes ; I would suggest that it should be opened at once as far as Weka Pass. 1262. Colonel Pearee.] Can you state the probable traffic on this line—the quantity of wool, for instance, that would be brought down ? —-We calculated that from 7,000 to 8,000 bales of wool came down last season. There is any quantity of live stock in the district, but, unfortunately, we are all obliged to keep a boiling-down apparatus. I boiled down 6,000 or 7,000 sheep myself last year. If we had railway-accommodation we could send down any amount of live stock. 1263. When the line is completed as far as Waikari, is it likely to promote the growth of grain ?— G-rain is grown there now. Mr. Leng has been settled there for many years, and has grown wheat every year. He has many hundreds of acres under cultivation now. 1264. Is grain carted at present to Atnberley? —'No grain is sent out of the district at present. If the railway were constructed it would largely promote the growth of grain. 1265. What is the probable area for agricultural purposes that would be served by the railway if taken as far as Waikari ? —lt would only serve the Waikari valleys. It would benefit us very little. It would not benefit any people living north of the Hurunui. 1266. If the railway were taken as far as the Hurunui, would it supply the wants of settlers north of the Hurunui ? —Very much so indeed. It would enable the people owning land in the Waiau Plains to get to the railway station and back in a day. They would not be able to get to Waikari and back in a day. 1267. Will there be any other traffic besides that arising from agriculture, live stock, and wool? —Yes ; there will be building-stone. On the Hurunui side of Waikari there is beautiful buildingstone in unlimited quantity. The Hurunui Hotel and other houses there are built of the stone. It is sandstone chiefly. It is the same as the Oamaru stone. 1268. Is there any coal ?—There is none to my knowledge. 1269. Mr. Wright.] What is the quality of the land on the Hurunui Plains? —It will all grow good wheat and barley. 1270. Without the extension of this line to Hurunui is that land shut out from profitable cultivation ? —Yes. Although most of the land mentioned in the statistics I have furnished is open grass land, still there are about 50,000 acres of bush land, some of which would supply large quantities of good timber for sleepers. The present rate of cartage for wool and other produce is from Is. to Is. 2d. per ton per mile. Mr. Gr. D. Leng, farmer, sworn and examined. 1271. The Chairman.] How long have you been cultivating lands on the Hurunui Plains?—Six years. 1272. What acreage have you under crop ? —This year I have 190 acres. I have grown wheat, oats, and barley this year. 1273. What has been the produce per acre of wheat aud barley? —I have not threshed any this year. I have been waiting for the railway. Last year, from 375 acres I threshed an average of 25 bushels per acre all round. 1274. Do you send any wheat or barley from the district ?—-Yes ; I bring wheat and barley up to A mberley. 1275. If the railway were extended to Hurunui do you think it would lead to any large additional cultivation ?—Yes. At present I cannot grow wheat and make it pay. I can grow nothing but oats on account of the cost of cartage. 1276. Mr. Reid.] Can you give the separate yields of wheat, oats, and barley?—Last year the yield of wheat was 22 bushels per acre ; barley, 17 bushels ; aud oats, about 26 bushels. 1277. Do you consider that a fair average yield ?—-No. It was very dry last year. The first year I had a yield of 50 bushels per acre all round from 172 acres. During the last two years the average yield has only been about 20 bushels per aere. 1278. Do you consider that the land you are cultivating is an average of the quality of the land in the district ?—Yes, I think so. There is some worse and some better. 1279. What quality of grain do you grow ? Does it command the top price ?—Yes. I got the top price for barley last year, and I have got a very good sample of barley this year. 1280. Colonel Pearee,] What distance are you from the Hurunui Bridge?—Seven miles. 1281. Are there roads through that district?—Yes. 1282. So that if the line were constructed to the Hurunui, the roads would feed the railway from the various farms about ? —Yes. 1283. Have you a Eoad Board in that district ? —Yes. 1284. Mr. Wright.'] Were not the crops exceptionally light last year on account of the drought ? —Yes. Mr. James Lance sworn and examined. 1285. The Chairman.] The Commission understand that you can give some information with reference to the quantity and quality of the land in Waikari Valley?—Yes. I think the extension of the railway to Waikari would open 10,000 acres of valuable agricultural country. If it were extended to the Hurunui lliver I think it would open 30,000 acres more. The whole of that would be wheat-grow-ing country. 1286. Is that chiefly north of the Hurunui ?—No ; south of the Hurunui only. I know nothing about the land which will be made available northward of the Hurunui. The farmers in the Waikari District are particularly anxious at this moment to know when the railway will be completed as far as Waikari. They say that as soon as the railway is opened they can grow grain; but until then it is. impossible to grow grain.
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1287. Mr. Wright.] As a landowner in the district, would you bi'ing a considerable area of country under crop ? —Tea ; I would either do that or sell the land. Mr. Moore and myself have 30,000 acres of freehold, all of which farmers would be eager to buy. I can say for myself, as a landowner, that I am eager to sell. 1288. Colonel Pearce.~\ Do you know anything of the stone-quarries in the district ?—Yes. I think I was the first person who worked the stone in the Weka Pass. 1289. Do you think, if the railway were carried through, that Christohurch would consume any of that stone ? —Yes ; I thiuk a very large quantity would be used in Christchurch. It is excellent building material; and, although it is limestone, it stands fire remarkably well. 1290. Are those quarries nearer to Christchurch than any other quarries containing that quality of stone ?—I decidedly think so. Ido not know of any other stone of that quality in this neighbourhood. It is very easily procurable. Mr. J. H. Davidson sworn and examined. 1291. The Chairman.'] Are you resident in the Hurunui District? —Yes; I have resided there eleven years. 1292. Have you any land in cultivation ? —Yes ; lam now cultivating 500 acres for grain. I have not yet raised crops from it. 1293. Can you give us an idea of the qualitv of the land surrounding you ? —The land I am cultivating is light plain-land ; but lam confident it will grow a good crop of wheat. It is not equal to the average agricultural land in the district. 1294. If the railway were extended to Hurunui, would it be an advantage to you in cultivating your land ? —lt would enable me to bring 6,000 acres into wheat-growing. 1295. Do you think that a considerable area of land would be brought into cultivation by other farmers ? —Sixty thousand acres round about us would be brought into cultivation by the extension of the railway to Hurunui. 1296. Mr. Wright.] That is, land north of the Hurunui ?—Yes. 1297. What price per ton do the settlers in the Amuri District now pay for coal ? —lt costs me, at the station, £5 per ton, owing to the excessive cost of cartage, and the long land-carriage. We buy it in Amberley, and cart it up. The rate of cartage I pay is Is. per ton per mile. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of Dr. Turnbul], Messrs. Cowlishaw, Coulson, Deans, Mcllwraith, Wilson, Crawford, Jerrard, Murchison, Gr. Peacocke, Mitchell, T. Phillips, Charters, J. Beaumont, and Upton. 1298. Mr. Cowlishaw made the following statement: We have waited upon the Commission for the purpose of bringing before you what we conceive are the superior advantages of the extension of the line from Grlentunnel by way of Wairiri Valley to Rakaia Gorge, over the line proposed to be constructed via Hororata, through the freehold of the Hon. John Hall. We have a number of witnesses who are prepared to give evidence as to the advantages of the Wairiri Valley. Mr. Robert Coulson, mining engineer, sworn and examined. 1299. Mr. Cowlishaw.] Where do you live ? —I have been resident at the coal mines near Rockwood for fifteen months. I lease them from Mr. William Wilson. 1300. Where are Mr. Wilson's mines situate ?—Within a mile and a half of Eockwood Station, in the Wairiri Valley. 1301. What is the surface extent of the coal formation there ? —lt is of very large extent. It runs over the line of road a mile and a quarter from where we opened the present mines. I have begun to sell some of the coal. 1302. What is the width of the seam ?—One seam is 7 feet 6 inches, and the other 3 feet 9 inches. Coal from the 7-feet-6-inch seam has been tried in the railway locomotives, and has proved very suitable for the purpose ; the other is specially adapted for smithing. Both seams are within a very short distance of each other. I produce a sample of ironstone from the same district. According to the assay, it contains from 80 to 85 per cent, of iron. It is found close to Mr. Wilson's property, in the Wairiri Valley. 1303. Are there any other minerals in that valley ? —There are fireclays, and a very beautiful white clay—it is a sort of pipeclay, but we have not tried that very much. A very favourable report has been made of the clay for briekmaking purposes. 1304. Do you think that if a railway were carried along the valley the clay would be brought into demand ?—Yes, I think so. The working of the coal will depend a great deal upon the outlet for it. 1305. Have you formed an estimate of how much coal you could get annually from this mine ?—■ Not exactly ; but at the present time we could get 30 tons per day. That is with present appliances. In a very short time we could turn out 60 or 70 tons per day. 1306. With further appliances could you increase the quantity ?—I think we could put out 100 tons per day from the two veins. 1307. Are you aware whether there are other veins of coal in this valley ? —I have seen several others. Between the Hon. John Hall's property and Mr. Wilson's, there are four or five seams of brown coal. That is still in the valley, near Grlentunnel. There is one seam of 3 feet 6 inches ; one 2 feet 9 inches ; one 3 feet 9 inches ; and another 5 feet 5 inches. That is towards Glentunnel. 1308. What is the character of the other seams P—One is a highly-bituminous coal, but not so much so as the specimen which I have produced to-day from Mr. Wilson's property. But it is a very fine coal. All these seams can be very easily worked. 1309. Would you be able to supply this coal in Christchurch ?—lf we had a railway we could supply it in Christchurch at from 21s. to 225. a ton. That is supposing freight to be about Bs. a ton. On the Hororata River banks I put a bore-hole down at Mr. Wilson's expense, and found two beds of coal, which run into the high end of the Hon. John Hall's estate. It is dipping into the plain. That is at the head of the valley. I think there is a fair prospect of that proving a large coal field if bored into. I cannot speak as to the extent of it.
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1310. Colonel Pearce.~\ What distance are those mines you speak of from the railway at present constructed ? —About 9 miles from Glentunnel. 1311. Do you cart the coal at present from the mine to Grlentunnel ? —No ; we sell the coal to the farmers in the neighbourhood. 1312. What is the elevation beyond Grlentunnel P—l should think it is 200 feet above the bed of the Selwyn River —perhaps a little more. 1313. Is it an easy gradient from Q-lentunuel ?—Tery easy. 1314. Are these mines on the proposed line of railway through the valley ?—I believe so. I have never seeu the exact route of the proposed line. I believe the mines are within a mile of the proposed line. 1315. Mr. OowUshaw.~\ Are you sure that the coal you mentioned is near the Hon. John Hall's estate ? —Yes. The stratification dips towards the Hon. John Hall's property. I think that will turn out to be the best coal on the Plains. I put a bore down sixty or seventy feet, and discovered two seams of coaL 1316. What is the thickness of the seams ? —One about 2 feet, and the other 2 feet 4 inches. The indications were very good indeed. 1317. Mr. Wright."] Will you indicate the spot from which the coal you produced to-day is taken ? ■ —It was obtained in the vicinity of Section 32,820. 1318. What is the percentage of iron from this ore ? —I have only the information supplied by Dr. Haast. He says about 80 per cent, of iron. There are considerable beds of ironstone from 2 feet 4 inches to 2 feet 10 inches thick alternating with the coal and fireclay beds. 1319. Is it workable without pumping ? —Tes, for some years to come. Mr. William Jeekabd, runholder and landowner, sworn and examined. 1320. Mr. Cowlishaw.'] Where do you live? —At Snowdon, about 5 miles from Windwhistle. 1321. Are you intimately acquainted with the country along the Wairiri Valley ? —Tes ; from the Wairiri Valley upwards. 1322. Do you know the railway line projected by the Government via Hororata up to the Woolshed ? —Tes. 1323. Are you acquainted with the scheme for a railway through the Wairiri Valley and the Whistle ? —Tes ; to the mouth of the Gorge. 1324. Which of the routes, in your opinion, is the better one ? —The Wairiri Valley route, because it is the shortest, and will open up the best country. There is also a quantity of minerals along that line. 1325. Is the country along the Wairiri Valley on to the Gorge better than the country along the other route ? —As a whole, decidedly so. 1320. What is the character of the country through the Wairiri Valley ? —I do not know much about the land in the Wairiri Valley itself. The road at present goes mostly through swampy, heavy land. I have a knowledge of the minerals above the Wairiri Valley on my own property. The boundary is just beyond Windwhistle. 1327. What minerals have you there ? —Coal, principally. We have opened out two seams for the use of the station. They are 8-feet and 9-feet seams. Dr. Haast says it is pitch-coal, and of very good quality. It is very easily worked. The seams we are working are water-free. They are on the side of a terrace in the Rakaia. There are other and much larger seams than those we are working. There are five seams,, 18 feet, 15 feet, 8 feet, and 5 feet thick. The coal that we are working burns very freely, and is a very good household coal. It stands the weather very well. 1328. Have you made any calculation as to the extent of country which would be served by the railway via Wairiri Valley ? —About 340,000 acres. There are about 50,000 acres of agricultural land. 1329. I suppose if this line were carried out you would work your coal seams? —Tes. If the line were carried in the neighbourhood of Windwhistle I would be prepared to make a railway to the coal. That is my intention. 1330. Do you know the character of the land along the line via Hororata? —Tolerably well, by passing through it. The land between the road and Hororata is very good agricultural land, but between that and the Rakaia the land is very poor. All the top part of the Hon. John Hall's land is very much better land. The higher you go up from the Hororata the better the land is—that is, as you approach the Downs. 1331. Colonel Pearee.] Has there been any effort made by those interested in the coal mines to construct a private line under the District Railways Act ? —No ; none at all, to my knowledge. 1332. Do you know whether any estimate has been made of the cost of bridging the Rakaia above Windwhistle ?—Lately an estimate has been made. Ido not know anything of that estimate. 1333. Mr. Wright.~\ Tou spoke of the top part of the Hon. John Hall's land as being the best part of his run. Would not that be better served by the line through the Wairiri Valley than by the line projected by the Government ? —I do not know about its being better served, but it would be equally as well served. 1334. Mr. Clarlc.~] Tou say that the line through the Wairiri Valley would open 50,000 acres of agricultural land: where is that land principally situated ? —I mean above the Wairiri Valley. It extends up the Gorge from the top of the Wairiri Valley. 1335. How far up the Gorge do you include in your estimate of 50,000 acres?—Fifteen miles above Windwhistle. I include the whole of the agricultural land up the Gorge. 1335a. How far would it be necessary to take the line up the Gorge, in order to bring the whole of that land under cultivation ?-—Up to the Acheron. 1336. Tou say that the line through the Wairiri Valley would be the shortest. To which point do you consider it would be shorter ? From the starting-point to Windwhistle. 1337. Tou are not speaking now of the lino as being part of the Canterbury Interior Main Line ? —I do not know where the Canterbury Interior Main Line is to go.
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1338. Then you advocate this line altogether apart from the Canterbury Interior Main Line ? — Yes, after starting from Homebush. 1339. My question does not refer to the point you start from, but the point you wish to attain on the other side ? —The point we wish to attain is to serve the Gorge. 1340. Merely for the left bank of the Kakaia Gorge ? —Tes. 1341. Then you consider the Wairiri Valley line would open more agricultural land? —Most decidedly I think so. There is no question about it. 1342. Is there not a larger extent of country towards the slope of the downs, and in the direction of the Hon. John Hail's homestead? —No. That is not where the good land is. The good land is all above that. The Hororata line would not be of much use io the Gorge. It is only 14 miles from Windwhistle to G-lentunnel; but by the other way it is 25 miles. 1343. Mr. Beid.~\ In speaking of agricultural land, do you consider that that is agricultural land immediately above the Windwhistle, going through the Gorge ? —Tes. 1344. Then you refer to land such as that when you speak of 50,000 acres of agricultural land to be opened up by this railway ? —The 50,000 acres I speak of would commence from the head of the Wairiri Valley. That would include the whole. There is a considerable quantity of land at the head of the Selwyn, which you do not see from Windwhistle. 1345. Mr. WrightJ] Do you consider that the line of railway by the Wairiri Valley would receive more traffic than the line by the Hororata Downs out on to the Plains ? Would there be more traffic on a section of 15 miles by the Wairiri Valley than on a section of 15 miles by the other route ? —There would be decidedly more traffic on the Wairiri Valley route. Mr. James Mcllweaith, manager Homebush Estate, sworn and examined. 134G. Mr. Cowlishaw.'] How long have you been resident at Homebush ?—Twenty-four years. 1347. Are you acquainted with the country along the Wairiri Valley up to the Gorge, and with the country along the proposed line by Hororata ?—Tes. 1348. Which, in your opinion, is the better line for the railway ?—The line from Sheffield through Wairiri Valley to the gorge of the Eakaia. 1349. Would that line be serviceable as part of the Canterbury Interior Main Line ? —Tes. 1350. Do you know the country on the other side of the Eakaia Gorge ? —Tes. If the BakaiaMethven line were extended 3or 4 miles, this line would cut it. Even where the Methven line is at present, this line could be made to join it. 1351. In forming your opinion, have you taken into consideration the question of its forming a part of the extension of the line on the other side of the Eakaia? —Tes. The length of our proposed line from Sheffield to the Eakaia Gorge is about 23 miles. The Government line, when completed from Sheffield to their present crossing at Woolshed Hill, is 22^ miles. So there is only half a mile difference in the length. I think the Methven line should be extended a few miles towards the hills ; and then the line I propose could be carried along the base of the hills, as proposed by Mr. Blair in his report. 1352. The extension of the line from the llakaia Gorge would bring the line closer to the hills ? ■ —Tes. Of course if the Methven line were extended 2 or 4 miles, it would shorten the distance of our proposed line. 1353. What are your reasons for proposing that the railway should go along the Wairiri Valley? ■ —Because it would open up a fresh country altogether, and a better country. It is a mineral country also. I consider that the line from Sheffield, passing through the Waianiwaniwa Valley to Coalgate, and then from Glentunnel to Eakaia Gorge, will run on the top of minerals nearly the whole way. The other line simply runs along the open plain, a great part of it very inferior land, and some of it the very worst on the Canterbury Plains. 1354. Is the land good in the Wairiri Valley ? —There is a great deal of very good agricultural land ; and if there was a mining population once settled in the country, I have no doubt the land would be cut up into very small farms, and would be made very productive. A great deal of it is down-land, and the longer that class of laud is worked and manured, the more fertile it becomes. 1355. Would the country via Hororata be benefited very much by the railway proposed by the Government ? —There is no doubt that the country the line will pass through will be very much benefited ; but, as I said before, the Government line runs through very poor land the greater part of the way, and there are no minerals whatever along that line. 1356. What sort of country is on the sea side of the Government line ?—There is a great deal of very poor land on that side. Some of it, in fact, has not been purchased to this day. 1357. Have you been working a coal mine at Glentunnel ?—Tes ; close to Glentunnel. 1358. What is the output? —Last week I sent out orders for 150 tons. We commenced working the coal five and a half years ago, when the Whitecliffs line was opened. The first year we sent away about 1,000 tons. Every year since it has gone 011 increasing at the rate of about 1,000 tons a year. Last year we sent away 4,275 tons. Judging from the quantity already sent away, I think the output this year will be 6,500 tons. 1359. What is the character of the coal you get from your mine ? —lt is called brown coal. It is better than lignite. The seam we are now working is 7 feet thick. There are fifteen or sixteen seams in the neighbourhood. 1360. Can you speak as to any other minerals along the Wairiri Valley ?—I can speak as to fireclay, glass-sand, and sand used for brickmakiog purposes. Fireclay extends along the proposed line of railway in the valley. We have got a fireclay which, when burnt, turns into white brick, which would be very good for facing buildings, instead of white stone. Such bricks would not lose their colour, like stone. 1361. Can you say how many coal seams have been discovered from Glentunnel up to the Eakaia Gorge ? —I have seen twelve different seams myself. Then there are ten between Sheffield and Glentunnel. In fact, if required, a coal mine could be opened up every mile along the proposed line of railway.
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1362. Have you had this proposed line surveyed ?—We have had the difficult parts surveyed, in order to show the Commission that there would really be no difficulty in making this line. In the other places it would be as easy to construct the railway as if it went over the plains. In going to Sheffield, the Commission seemed to think there would be a difficulty in getting down the slope. Since then Mr. Crawford and myself have been over the ground, and we have taken sections at two different places. The first section is taken near the place where the coach went over a bad road. But, instead of the road going that way, it ought to have been taken up the valley to the left. The height of the cutting on the saddle is only 69 feet, which could be either cut away, or a small tunnel put through. On one side there is a gradient of lin 80; on the other, 1 in 69, The other one would shorten the route a great deal, and go through much easier country. That is more to the right of where the coachroad went, only it is a little higher—B2 and 89 feet, instead of 69 feet. One advantage in going this way would be, that the line would cut the coal seams three different times. The only other difficulty about this line is the bridging of the Eakaia. That we have found to be not so difficult as we expected. We have taken a section of the river, and also of the country for a mile or a mile and a half approaching the Gorge. The depth of the Gorge we find is somewhere about 290 feet, and the distance across is 561 feet. The bridge would be on a higher level of about 38 feet. We propose to build a pier on the ledge of the rock, which will narrow the main span to 470 feet in the clear. Then there is another span of 100 feet; and a little piece could be filled up with the refuse that would come out of the tunnel. I have made some inquiry about the cost of a suspension-bridge of that length. In the reference library in Christchurch there is a work on American engineering, in which you will see drawings of bridges in America. There is one bridge of 500 feet span, the price of which is put down at £36,000. 1363. Mr. Reid.~] I see you have a very steep grade of 1 in 45 ?—There is an alternative one of 1 in 50. 1364. How does that compare with the crossing proposed by the Government at the Old Curiosity Shop ? —I cannot answer you as to the grade ; but, when you come to the terrace of the Eakaia, you have to go down a cutting of 2 miles, and across the river on a bridge of 60 chains. Then you have 2 miles more of cutting. I do not think there would be very much difference between that work and the one we propose. The great advantage on our side is that the bridge we propose will be a permanent one, like the Waimakariri Bridge, and will be made of stone and iron; while the Government bridge at the Old Curiosity (Shop will be only a wooden pile-bridge. 1365. Have you examined the country ou the south side?—No; but it soeins to be very easy. I know the country, and I do not think there would be any difficulty in getting down the Methven from the other side. 1366. Would there be many bridges required on the proposed route between Sheffield and the Gorge ? —No ; there would be very few bridges. There would be one bridge over the Selwyn near Sheffield, one over the Waianiwaniwa Creek, one over the Selwyn at Glentunnel, and one over the Hororata. One would also be required over Camping Gully ; but I have not examined that. The other four bridges could, I think, be constructed at a cost of from £1,000 to £1,500 each. The bridge •on the Government line over the Selwyn is estimated to cost something like between £8,000 and £9,000. We had not time to examine Camping Gully ; but I think the same sort of bridge as would be necessary at the four places I have mentioned would do for that gully. It is a dry gully, so that a good deal of earthwork could be used. 1367. Mr-. Wright.'} Will you indicate the points on the map where you speak of the Government line being 22J miles in length, and the alternative line 23 miles ? —The proposed alternative line starts from Sheffield, and goes along the Waianiwaniwa and Wairiri Valleys on to the Gorge. That is 23£ miles in length. The length of the Government line is 22 £ miles. 1368. Would you not have to travel down the south bank of the Eakaia to effect a junction with the Methven line ? Supposing the Government route south of the Eakaia to be adhered to, would you not have to travel down 6 or 7 miles ? —Yes; but nay idea is that the Methven line should be extended. 1369. Have you made any estimate of the cost of the alternative lines ?—I have no idea of the cost of them ; but I do not think the difference would be very much. 1370. Would not the line through Wairiri Valley cost more per mile than the line via Hororata ? —I do not think so, when you take into consideration the cost of the bridges. 1371. At what price per ton do you supply coal at Glentunnel ? —We supply it at different prices. We supply it to men who sell over again at 12s. per ton ; and to others at 16s. per ton. 1372. Would not the extension of this line, by opening up so many more coalpits, be likely to bring down the price of your own coal at Glentunnel? —Tes; I think that is quite likely. I think there would be more competition, and more miners in the country. 1373. At what price do you supply coal to the Government ?—We have not sold any to the Government. I may say that I tendered at Is. per ton less than the Springfield Company, but they refused my tender. 1374. Then we must infer that the Government considered your coal Is. per ton worse' than the Springfield coal ?—I suppose so. 1375. Considering the large amount of mineral wealth existing in this valley, according to the evidence brought before us, do you think it would pay the proprietors of those mines to construct a railway on their own account ? —No, I do not think so. Ido not think it would be at all fair for the Government to make a line for one set of people, and ask a number of proprietors to make a line for themselves. 1376. Do you think it would pay the proprietors to construct this line as a private speculation ? —■ No ; I do not say that it would. 1377. Then, in point of fact, you ask the Government to extend the line without a fair prjspect of its paying ? —lf you ask me whether the other line is likely to paj r, I should say it is likely to pay a great deal worse.
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1378. Whether the line will pay or not, the traffic being the same, will depend upon the cost per mile of the railway ? —Tea. There is no doubt that the traffic on the Wairiri Valley line would increase. Ido not see how there could be an increase in the traffic on the other line. There are no minerals; the land is very poor: and I cannot see what the line will have to carry. We can show that during the last four and a half years the population in the neighbourhood of the Wairiri Valley line has increased from about 68 people to 268. One thing I would like to point out very strongly to the Commission is, that every man who digs for coal or makes bricks is a consumer, and not a producer. Those are the men we want. We have plenty of farmers, but wo want new industries. 1379. Have you at present a larger population south of the Selwyn in the Wairiri Valley than in the Hororata Valley P—l believe that if you go along each of the proposed railway routes you will find a larger population in the Wairiri Valley. 1380. I waitt the answer to refer to the population now existing south of the Selwyn ? —There are certainly more living on the Hororata line ; but the Hororata line will not suit the great bulk of the Hororata people. The people settled on the Downs do not believe in that line at all. 1881. Would they prefer the line originally surveyed along the foot of the Downs? —Tes; that would suit them better, but it would be more expensive. 1382. Mr. Clark.] I would like a more definite answer to the question as to whether or not, in your opinion, the line you propose would pay the expense of working and interest on the cost of construction? —I am not well enough acquainted with the construction of railway lines to answer that question ; but I am quite prepared to say that, if both those lines were made to-morrow, we should have the best-paying one in proportion to expense. 1383. Then, in your opinion, it is a question of choosing the lesser of two evils? —I cannot see that. There must be a large population settled in the coal mines, and ten years after this it would be a paying line. The line would bo the means of settling thousands of people. 1384. Does the line from Rolleston to Sheffield and Whitecliffs pay ? —I believe it has paid very well. Tor the twelve months ending 30th June, 1879, the profit on that line was £1,615 2s. Id. 1385. What is generally carried along that line ? —A large quantity of coal, wool, and grain. 1386. Have you read Mr. Blair's report on the Hororata line ? —I have ; but I cannot understand it. He says that from Homebush to Hororata the line goes through excellent agricultural land, mostly fenced and cultivated. Now, I refer to the Commissioners to sav whether they saw anything of that kind. He also talks about the country to the seaward. He speaks about a belt of fine land along the sea, and then a bit of very inferior stony land, good for nothing. He then speaks about a belt of good laud under the hills which is almost as good as the belt along the sea. Now, that is the very land we propose to run the railway through. 1387. Mr. Wright.] Can you say what percentage the profit of £1,615 represents on the outlay upon the railway from Rolleston to Sheffield and Whitecliffs ?—No ; I cannot say anything more than what I see in the return. 1388. Mr. Reid.] How many miles of railway does that profit refer to ?—About 36 miles. Mr. Jambs Ceawfobd, engineer and surveyor, sworn and examined. 1389. Mr. Ooivlishaw.] What is the distance between the coal mines in Wairiri Valley and the nearest point of the projected Government line ?—About 4 miles in a direct line, or 5 or 6J miles by the road. 1390. Have you lately surveyed the country through which the proposed railway via Wairiri Valley will pass ?—Tes ; I surveyed two saddles near Sheffield, and the proposed bridge-site at Rakaia Gorge. 1391. Are the drawings now produced the results of your surveys ?—Tes ; they correctly delineate the country. 1392. Mr. Wright.~\ Do those sections refer to the line between Sheffield and Glentunnel ?— Between Sheffield and the head of the Waianiwaniwa Stream. L393. They do not refer to the Wairiri Valley at all ? —No ; but they are carried sufficiently far to get on to the level ground. 1394. What does the other plan represent ?—lt is a section of the Rakaia Gorge. 1395. Have you formed any estimate of the cost of the proposed bridge over the Rakaia ? —I have not gone into it thoroughly, as I have not had sufficient time. I fancy it could be bridged, including approaches, for about £46,000. 1396. How far along the line did you survey ? —One mile thirty chains from the Gorge. 1397. Does this survey cover all the ground where heavy cuttings would be required? —The whole of it. If another survey were made, and more time taken, this line could be very much improved and shortened. 1398. What is the nature of the country on the other side of the Gorge?—lt is a flat on that side, and you afterwards come to a series of terraces ; but, as the country is falling from the hills with an ascending grade of linsoor 1 in 60, there would be no difficulty. There is no engineering difficulty whatever in constructing this line. 1399. Can you speak as to the character of the ground from Glentunnel through the Wairiri Valley ? —There is no difficulty in it. You could either cross Camping Gully Creek, or go further down. I believe Camping Gully would be the cheapest. 1400. When you get beyond a mile and a half there is no engineering difficulty at all ?—No. It is then all flat ground. Mr. John Mtjechisoh", sheep-farmer, Lake Coleridge, sworn and examined. 1401. Mr. Coivlishaio.] How far do you live from the Rakaia Gorge ? — Nine and a half miles. 1402. Do you know the country about there ? —I do not know much of the country about Windwhistle. The country about my own place consists of downs, and is good land. It only wants working.
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1403. Why has it not been hitherto worked ?—Because it is too far for cartage. 1404. If you had a railway to Windwhistle, would it make your land valuable for agriculture ?— Yes. 1405. What extent of land have you ? —There are 10,000 acres of good agricultural land on my run. 1406. Is there anything in the way of minerals ?—There is coal. There is a coal-reserve of 400 acres. The coal is now being worked. There is only one seam opened up. There is a hill which is all coal. A block of three hundredweight has been exposed for three years to the weather, but no change has been made in it. 1407. Would a railway to Windwhistle make this coal valuable ? —Mr. Ogden, the owner of the coal, said that if a railway were made to Windwhistle he would form a company to construct a tramway to the coal mine from Windwhistle. 1408. Colonel Fearce.~\ You speak of a coal-reserve. Is it a reserve by the Crown ? —No. It was reserved by Mr. Ogden, from whom I bought my run. 1409. Mr. Reid.'] Has the coal been opened out in more than one place ?—No. Mr. Geoege Peacock, runholder, sworn and examined. 1410. Mr. Obwluhaw.~\ Where do you live ?—At Eockwood, about 4 miles on this side- of Windwhistle. I have lived there for two years. I lived close by for four years before that. 1411. Do you know the country ?—I know the country very well through Wairiri Valley on to Windwhistle. 1412. What is the character of the country, commencing from Glentunnel ?—lt is very rich swamp land along the proposed railway line. It will grow anything. There are about 1,500 acres of that land. Further up there are about 2,000 acres of ploughable land. The railway up the Wairiri Valley skirts the Hon. John Hall's property. As he says himself, the further his land goes up the Gorge, the better it is. There is no doubt that is the case. 1413. Are the mineral deposits on the hillsides ? —Yes ; all the coalpits are there. You could have a coalpit every mile. The 1,500 acres I speak of extend up to the crossing of the Hororata River. The swamp stops at the saddle. The other land is good ploughable land, quite as good as the land on the other side. The land adjoining the river would be equally as well served as the Hon. John Hall's. 1414. What extent of good country would be served by the Wairiri Valley line ? —I should think from 20,000 to 25,000 acres in the immediate neighbourhood of the line-—that is, within a distance of 7or 8 miles. That is good agricultural land. That estimate takes in some of the Hon. John Hall's land at the top end. 1415. Would this railway be a great convenience to runholders beyond that ?—Yes. At present the shortest means of communication is by Glentunnel. 1416. Do you know anything about the line projected by the Government ? —Yes. The land at the bottom end of the Hon. John Hall's run, adjoining Mr. Cordy's, is very stony. The land improves as you go up towards the Gorge. Unquestionably it would be better to take the line up Wairiri Valley. It would save 7 miles of railway construction, because the line from Homebush to Glentunnel is already constructed—that is, supposing both lines go to Windwhistle. If the other line goes to Woolshed Hill it would be 3J miles longer, and it would not serve the back country at all. 1417. Mr. Wright.'] You say the Government line would be 3| miles longer than the proposed line through Wairiri Valley —the one going to Woolshed and the other to Windwhistle. But if the first-named line has to travel 7 miles down the south bank of the Bakaia, from the crossing to Methven, will it not be then 3J? miles longer than the line projected by the Government ? —Yes; of course it would then be longer. 1418. So that there would be no economy, so far as distance is concerned, unless the route south of the Bakaia is altered materially ? —No. At the same time the Wairiri Valley line would serve agricultural country at the other side of the river. 1419. Mr. Reid.] Does it not go along the foot of very steep hills ?—Yes ; within 5 or 6 miles of steep hills. There is a road now being formed to the country up above ; and that may be the shortest route. Mr. Edwabd Mitchell, stock and station agent, Christchurch, sworn and examined. 1420. Mr. CowlisJiaw.] Are you connected with a marble-quarry in the neighbourhood of the proposed railway ? —I am chairman of a Marble-quarry Company, whose property is situate to the right of the proposed railway line through Wairiri Valley, going towards the Eakaia Gorge. The closer to the hills the railway is carried the nearer it will be to the marble-quarries. The line via Hororata would go away from the quarries. The quarries are 12 miles from the Whitecliffs Station. There is a gully running down from the quarries to Eockwood; so that if a railway were made up Wairiri Valley we should be very close to it. I think the object of a railway should be to open up the hills and rich valleys in the back country. I have a very good knowledge of the back country right up to the glaciers of the Bakaia, and I cati fully bear out what Mr. Jerrard has said. 1421. The GhairmanA ■ Can you give any inf oi'mation as to the quality of the marble ?—lt is highly spoken of. It is the only marble of the kind found in the Southern Hemisphere. It is a rich red marble. It was awarded a prize at the Sydney Exhibition. If it were only utilized as lime, it would be very valuable. We have forty acres, and the marble crops out in every direction. We have traced the marble down 200 feet from the hill. We are not making any use of the ma'rble at present,because we cannot get at it. We have also a grey marble; but the red marble is of.the greatest value. There is a very large tract of agricultural country along the proposed line by Wairiri Valley. There must be 50,000 or GO,GOO acres of good country between Windwhistle and the Acheron, and there is a great deal of good country on the other side of the Acheron. As for the coal, you can see it along the river for three-quarters of a mile. There is no coal seam like it about here. 11—E. 3.
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Mr. William Wilson, seed-merchant, Christchurch, sworn and. examined. 1422. Mr. Cowlis7iaw.~\ How long have you been resident in Canterbury ? —Nearly thirty years. 1423. Are you acquainted with the Wairiri Valley District ? —I have known it well for the last eighteen years. I have 460 acres of land in that valley. Mr. Coulson has leased the coal mines there from me. They extend over the greater portion of the 460 acres. It is a short distance up the valley. 1424. What have you found on that land besides coal ? —I found coal in great abundance ; valuable building-stone, which can be raised in large blocks; and at least eight varieties of pigments, or coloured earths, useful for making paint. I also found beautiful slate, which can be obtained in great quantities ; fireclay immediately below the coal; and a clay strongly resembling china-clay, which, if not china-clay itself, will be fit for the same purposes. 1425. Do you think those minerals would be rendered marketable by a railway through the valley ? —Every one of them could then be brought into Christchurch, and would be in great requisition. The building-stone is a strong blue-stone, and could be quarried with the greatest possible ease. 1426. Do you think the other minerals exist in sufficient quantities ? —I have sunk sixteen pits for coal to a depth of 6 feet, and at fourteen out of sixteen points I found coal from 4 feet to 6 feet from the surface. The fireclay exists in great abundance. Dr. Tuknbtjll sworn and examined. 1427. Mr. Coiolishaio,~] Have you any evidence to give respecting this railway ?—Some question has been raised with respect to the population of the two districts, and I would therefore like to leave with the Commission a statement, drawn up by the clerk of the South Malvern District Eoad Board, showing the number of houses and the population in that district. The analysis of that return is as follows : Number of houses before the railway was opened 4 \ years ago, 15 ; number of houses at the present date, 72: increase in 4$ years, 57. Population before railway was opened 4| years ago, 68; population at present date, 336 : increase in 4: 3 years, 268. If that is the result of a railway opening one coal mine and pottery, by another extension of 10 miles to three or four coal mines we may naturally hope that the consuming population will be increased at somewhat the same rate. I also wish to lay before the Commission the following return, supplied by the secretary to the Education Board: — Hororata School, opened on 7th March, 1870. —Attendance, December quarter, 1878, on roll, 78; average, 68: March quarter, 1879, on roll, 59 ; average, 53 : June quarter, 1879, on roll, 59 ; average, 57: September quarter, 1879, on roll, 58 ; average, 50: December quarter, 1879, closed on account of sickness. Malvern South School, opened on 17th March, 1879. —Attendance, March quarter, 1879, on roll, 67 ; average, 55 : June quarter, 1879, on roll, 88; average, 59 : September quarter, 1879, on roll, 82; average, 51: December quarter, 1879, on roll, 83 ; average, 52. This shows a constantly-decreasing attendance on the Hororata side, and a constantly-increasing attendance on the Grlentunnel side. The whole district we wish to open up will be a consuming district, and not a producing district in the farming sense of the term. As showing the consumption of native coal in populous districts, I would read the following telegram from Dunedin: " Six coal companies here. Consumption in Dunedin, one thousand tons per week. This is taken from actual returns." That is the consumption of native coal in Dunedin, and it shows that if additional coal mines are opened up here the consumption will greatly increase in proportion. I would also like to lay before the Commission the following extract from the land-tax roll for 1879 : — W. S. Robinson, 819 acres ; net value, £2,547 ; £3 2s. 2d. per acre. Colville, 113 acres ; net value, £713 ; £6 6s. 2d. per acre. Everett, 45 acres; net value, £277; £6 3s. per acre. Moses Lee, 20 acres; net value, £100; £5 per acre. George Napier, 94 acres ; net value, £651; £6 18s. 6d. per acre. James Napier, 100 acres ; net value, £695 ; £6 19s. per acre. J. A. Mcllraith, 400 acres ; net value, £1,532; £3 16s. 7d. per acre. J. S. Turnbull, 1,157 acrea ; net value, £3,833; £3 6s. 3d. per acre. Ewen Mclntosli, 377 acres; net value, £1,762 ; £4 13s. sd. per acre. Beaumont, 857 acres ; net value, £2,571; £3 per acre. T. A. Phillips, 3,980 acres freehold ; net value, £10,945 ;£2 15s. per acre. T. A. Phillips, 6,000 acres leasehold; net value, £4,500 ; 15s. per acre. G. R. Peacock, 928 acres freehold ; net value, £2,552 ;£2 13s. lOd. per acre. G. R. Peacock, 3,650 acres leasehold ; net value, £2,738 ; 15s. per acre. Sir J. C. Wilson, 1,631 acres freehold; net value, £4,885 ; £2 19s. 9d. per acre. Sir J. C. Wilson, 6,529 acres leasehold ; net value, £4,896 ; (nearly) 15s. per acre. Gerrard, 8,668 acres freehold ; net value, £26,004; £3 per acre. Gerrard, 50,000 acres leasehold ; net value, £22,050 ; Bs. 9d. per acre. Gerrard and Neave, 20 acres freehold; net value, £60 ;£3 per acre. Murchinson and Cartmell, 3,720 acres freehold, £2 9s. per acre ; 12,312 acres leasehold, 10s. per acre : net value, £15,774. Neave, 1,165 acres freehold, 43,445 acres leasehold; net value, £14,060. R. M. Cotton, 40 acres freehold; net value, £120 ; £3 per acre. R. M. Cotton, 48,000 acres leasehold ; net value, £45,450 ; 18s. lid. per acre. Fisher, 20 acres freehold ; net value, £40 ;£2 per acre. Fisher, 34,000 acres leasehold; net value, £6,800; 4s. per acre. John Cordy, 5,899 acres freehold ; net value, £23,596; £4 per acre. John Cordy, 5,403 acres leasehold ; net value, £5,403 ; £1 per acre. J. Hall, 29,025 acres freehold, £2 14s. sd. per acre ; 1,400 acres reserve, £1 per acre ; 3,000 acres leasehold, £1 per acre : net value, £83,468. Deans, 14,397 acres freehold, (about) £4 per acre; 5,781 acres leasehold, £1 per acre : net value, £61,884.
Akakoa, Tuesday, 27th Apbil, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. Jacob Waeckrele, Mayor; J. D. G-arwood, Chairman of Railway Committee; James Dalglish, G-. E. Joblin, Greorge Saxton, W. Birdling, John Smith, John B. Barker, William Coop, and Henry Piper, waited upon the Commission. Mr. W. Montgomery, M.H.E. for the district, introduced the deputation. 1428. Mr. J. J). Garwood made the following statement: The present deputation represents gentlemen from all parts of the County of Akaroa, and also represents a deputation which waited some little time since upon the Minister for Public Works at Christchurch. Of course we feel very much interested in the matter of railway communication. We feel that we are thoroughly isolated, and have been so ever since the inauguration of the public works scheme. We are prepared to show that in tapping this harbour, which we consider the harbour of South Canterbury, you tap a country which is not a wilderness. I do not know that it is necessary for me to go into any laudation of the district to show that nature has done much for us while man has done little, as I apprehend the Commission can see the country for themselves and ascertain its capabilities. We have taken a line drawn from Kaituna to the sea, and have been collecting some facts to lay before the Commission.
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We have not taken in the Taitapu District or G-ebbie's Valley, nor have we included the land which can be reclaimed from the lake-flats. We have drawn up a statement of the quantity of stock and sheep on the Akaroa Peninsula at the present time, in its half-settled state. I believe the figures under-estimate the quantity of stock in the county, because many of the persons applied to for information looked upon the inquiry as inquisitorial, and as being connected with the property-tax, which is the bugbear that is now frightening them. We therefore could not get all the statistics and information we should have liked to obtain. From Kaituna to the sea, including Port Levy, there are 12,000 head of cattle, 133,000 sheep, and 3,000 swine—when the railway is constructed, a considerable export trade in cattle, sheep, and pigs will be created; 654 tons of cheese have been produced in the year, 620 tons of grass-seed, and 1,850 bales of wool. I cannot speak as to firewood, sawn timber, posts and rails; but Mr. Coop, of Little Eiver, will be able to give evidence as to the quantity of timber that could be exported from that part of the country. Some members of the deputation have lived on the Peninsula since 1840. The witnesses to be examined are thoroughly practical men, and will be able to afford reliable evidence. Mr. William Coop sworn and examined. 1429. The Chairman.'] You are a resident in the Little Eiver District ? —Tes. 1430. For how many years ? —About seventeen or eighteen years. 1431. You are probably well acquainted with the resources of this district in respect of timber ?— Yes. 1432. Can you inform the Commission approximately what quantity of timber would probably be supplied as traffic to the railway, in the event of its being constructed as far as Little Eiver?—> According to the statement I prepared, about 75,000,000 feet of timber would be produced by the Little Eiver District. 1433. Can you state what quantity would probably be delivered to the railway in each year ?— We could produce 150 tons a day of all descriptions of sawn timber. That quantity could be very easily doubled. 1434. In the event of the railway being constructed to the Port of Akaroa, would there be any considerable traffic in timber in addition to what would come from the Little Eiver ?—A large quantity of posts, rails, and firewood would come from the harbour side of the range. 1435. Not any large quantity of sawn timber ? —No. 1436. Are you prepared to give any evidence as to other kinds of traffic which would be supplied to the railway ? —During the last seventeen years Messrs. White and Co. and myself have sent from our mills in the Little Eiver District timber upon the carriage of which we have spent £50,000. At the same time that we have been sending away timber, we have been sustaining a back-carriage at the rate of £700 a year on oats and goods of all descriptions. 1437. What do you think will be the traffic on the railway ?—The traffic in timber and the backcarriage will be doubled and trebled. 1438. Can you state to what extent the railway might rely upon other traffic besides that of 'timber—produce sent from the district? —When the railway is made there would leave the Peninsula about 2,000 or 3,000 tons of grain and wool during the year. 1439. Mr. Wright.] When you speak of 2,000 or 3,000 tons as the quantity of grain and other produce that would be supplied from the Peninsula, do you include the whole of the Peninsula ?—No ; I refer to the Little Eiver. If I included this side of the Peninsula, there would be twice as much traffic as I have stated. I simply speak of the Little Eiver side of the range. 1440. Mr. Clark.] You spoke of the return carriage as being somewhat over £600 per annum. That, I understand, is the cost of cartage ? —Yes. 1441. It would give better information if you would state the number of tons ? —The cost is something like £3 per ton. There would be 300 tons per annum. 1442. In mentioning the return freight, do you refer to grain ? —lt was simply on oats for horsefeeding. 1443. In referring to the quantity of grain that would be carried over the line, I presume oats would be grown ? —Of course they would grow oats. We import our oats now. 1444. If oats were grown in the district, then the tonnage of the oats on the backward carriage would have to be deducted from your calculation, because you would not then import oats ? —lf you make this line of railway we shall have treble the population, and we shall want treble the quantity of oats. 1445. Mr. Garwood.] When you spoke of the quantity of sawn timber that could be produced, you merely referred to your own saw-mill and that of Messrs. White and Co., in the Little Eiver District? —Yes. I put in the following statement as part of my evidence : —■ Including the eastern and western valleys of Little River, the timber-land, in round numbers, would cover an area of twenty-five square miles, and, allowing for timber already cut, there still remains, allowing 5,000 feet to the acre, which is a very low estimate, an average of 75,000,000 feet of growing timber fit for sawing purposes—sufficient to keep six mills such as we have cutting for ten years. There is also a supply of posts, rails, and firewood to last for at least from fifteen to twenty years, including the Kaituna, Price's, and Birdling Valleys, and along Lake Porayth. The output from these sources would be at least as follows: 6 mills, 25,000 feet each per week, would give about 45 tons per day deadweight; say 60 cords firewood, 90 tons; say 1,000 posts and rails, 25 tons: total per day, 160 tons. I assume this output, which could easily be done, to get at the information as to whether the line would pay for timber alone for a length of time. Now, 160 tons at, say, 10s. per ton, which now costs us from £2 to £3 per ton, gives £80 per day, or £480 per week. You will also bear in mind that there will be a large supply of split and other timber coining out of the Kaituna and other valleys above named ; and, assuming that the line will cost £50,000 as far as Little River, this, at 6 per cent., would give £3,000 per annum, while the income would be £25,000. There is also the back-carriage—which is something considerable —in connection with the existing mills, and also the increase of population to be considered. Stores of all kinds would be established. There would also be a considerable output of grass-seed, cheese, and other produce, as the land becomes cleared and occupied. The land is of good quality, and well adapted for small settlers and comfortable homesteads. Of course the output would depend upon the demand, and could be very much increased if required. "With regard to the sleepers obtained from this forest out of totara, no one yet has been able to produce a piece of decayed sawn or split timber. Fencing-posts of this timber have been in the ground over fifty years, and they are still sound. There has been cut out of this forest up to the present, or for the last fifteen years, about 18,000,000 feet
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of timber, which has oeen carted and punted away a distance of from 20 to 25 miles. The carting and punting alone has cost myself and Meßsra. Wm. White and Co. from 4s. 6d. to 10s. per 100 superficial feet, or, say, ss. 6d. all round (the present cost) or £49,500 —as much as the railway line will cost to construct. The surrey now being proceeded with is to terminate two miles short of the bush. As the bulk of the passenger traffic would come from tho Peninsula, that, in my opinion, would be a very great mistake, and it will put at least Is. per 100 feet on the price of the great bulk of the timber. Mr. G-eoege Russell Jobms" sworn and examined. 1446. The Chairman.'] Are you a settler at Little Biver ?—Yes. 1447. Are you cultivating land there ?—Yes. We do not do much in the way of cultivation ; we clear the bush and sow grass. 1448. How long have you been resident there ? —About seventeen years. 1449. I conclude you are well acquainted with the district, and can state what is the nature of its resources, and to what extent it is likely to contribute to the railway ?—-Yes. As far as timber is concerned, Mr. Coop being an expert, 1 should not lite to add anything to what he stated. From my own land I could supply fifty cords of firewood a day, if I could get a market for it. At present the cost of cartage is £3 a ton, which is prohibitive. Thousands of tons of good timber have been destroyed in consequence of the expense of cartage. 1450. You have mentioned firewood as an important item in the traffic of the railway. Can you state anything else that you think would contribute largely to make a railway payable ?—Of course every acre of ground cleared at once becomes productive. We get crops annually from it. The land is of excellent quality. Even the hilltops produce good crops, and would carry more sheep to the acre than any part of the Plains. 1451. Can you give any idea as to the number of bales of wool which would probably be sent by the railway?—l do not think I should be going beyond the mark, as far as Little Eiver is concerned, in estimating the sheep-carrying capacity at five sheep to the acre. That is my own candid opinion. 1452. You are speaking of land which has been cleared ? —Land which will be cleared and sown in grass. There are 25 square miles, and it would be easy to estimate what the quantity of wool produced would be, the land carrying five sheep to the acre. 1453. Do you think there would be any considerable quantity of grain grown? —I think not. We should find that the grain would he brought from the Plains. There might be some grown on the lakeflats. I would not expect much grain to be grown in the Peninsula, as it is not well adapted for cultivation. Many years must elapse before the roots would be sufficiently rotted to allow the land to be ploughed. The land is admirably adapted for dairy purposes —the lower parts especially. The dairy produce would give a traffic to the railway. 1454. Can you give anything like an estimate as to the probable quantity of dairy produce ?—lt would be hazardous to do so without more consideration than I have given to the matter. There is an abundance of water, and the land is well adapted for dairy-farming. The cheese is much sought for. 1455. Mr. Clark.] Having given the whole area of land and stated its capabilities for carrying sheep, of course the quantity taken up by dairy-farms would reduce the area for sheep-carrying ? —■ Yes, decidedly ; but you would still be getting a traffic for the railway. Probably the traffic from the dairy-farms would be greater per acre than that from grain and wool. 1456. When that part of the country is denuded of its timber, the traffic in firewood and timber will cease r —Yes. I am speaking simply of the Little Eiver Valley, estimated to be 25 square miles in extent. 1457. In speaking of fifty cords of firewood per day as the probable output, I presume that is included in the 150 tons per day, the estimated quantity stated by the previous witness ? —Yes. 1458. Mr. Wriqlit] How many years would it take to bring the whole of the bush-land under grass for dairy-farming ?—lt simply depends on how quickly the timber and firewood are removed. If you clear an acre this year, you can have a good crop of grass off it the next. It would take two or more years to bring it to perfection. 1459. How many years are likely to elapse before the whole of the valley is brought under grass, with or without a railway ? —lt is difficult to say. Ido not think I could state any time. 1460. How many hundred acres have been brought under grass during the time you have been settled in the valley ? —Less than 2,000 acres. 1461. Mr. Q-arivood.] Supposing the railway were not extended, what would be the effect on the whole County of Akaroa ? —I think tho mills must stop. The portion of the timber readily accessible to the mills is well-nigh exhausted. The timber which lies farther back would be more expensive to get at. It would be got if we could export it at a cheaper rate than we have to pay now. 1462. You are aware that the saw-mills in the Peninsula are almost handicapped out of the market through the excessive rates ? —Yes, I think so. We are peculiarly circumstanced. We have had to pay more for the land than the people settled on the Plains, and they can easily get their produce conveyed to market. We are put to more expense in utilizing our land, and we have to meet double the expense in getting the produce to market. From the natural configuration of the country, this is the only line of railway possible. No other line is possible in the Peninsula. If you construct the railway to Little Eiver Valley, you will bring it to the centre of the Peninsula, and within 3 miles, as the crow flies, of the Akaroa Harbour. 1463. Colonel Pearee.] Do you think the Peninsula generally well supplied with water-carriage ? — Some parts of it—those parts that border on the sea. 1464. Is not the sawn timber carried by water to Lyttelton ?—We find it more expensive to get the timber from Little Eiver to Akaroa Harbour than to Christchurch. 1465. If the railway were carried only to Little Eiver, would that be any benefit to the settlers of Akaroa proper ? —I do think it would be a very great benefit to Akaroa to get the railway constructed even as far as Little Eiver. 1466. Would they carry the produce over the hills to the railway ?—They would have to do so. 1467. No heavy merchandise could be carried over the hills ?—Not much would be taken over the hills. The railway would create a passenger traffic.
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1468. if the railway is only taken to Little River, it would depend upon the Little River traffic alone ?—Not alone, but largely. I believe that roads would be formed from various parts of the Peninsula, converging to the terminus at Little River, and that there would be a good deal of traffic along those roads. 1469. Could not stock be taken by water cheaper than by railway?—No. Stockmen at Pigeon Bay state that they would send their stock to Little River, and from thence by rail, in preference to sending it by any other means. 1470. Mr, Oarwood.] You are aware that the whole of the surplus stock is driven by way of Little River to the Plains ? —Tes. To get access to the Plains they go by Little River. 1471. You are also aware of the fattening capabilities of Banks Peninsula—that it is superior to any other part of the country?—The graziers say that the cattle from the Peninsula are very superior. 1472. 'There is a large trade in cattle-dealing between this and the Plains ? —Yes. Mr. Heney Pipee sworn and examined. 1473. The Chairman.'] You are a resident on the Peninsula? —Yes. 1474. For how many years ? —Twenty-eight. 1475. You are well acquainted with the resources of the Perfinsula as regards timber and stock ? —I have been wholly connected with timber and stock sinee I have been here. 1476. Can you state, in the event of a railway being constructed to Akaroa, what quantity of timber would probably be contributed as traffic for the railway ? —I could not say there would be a large quantity within the bounds of Akaroa. The whole of the timber that would be carried on the railway would not exceed 6,000,000 or 7,000,000 feet. We have got out the most of our timber. The mill has been working over twenty years. 1477. What quantity would be contributed in each year if the railway were opened?—They would contribute about 1,000,000 or 2,000,000 feet of timber a year. They would soon exhaust the forest. There would be a large quantity of firewood sent away for years, so long as there was an open market. You could not fis any limit to the quantity. So long as there was a demand, there would be a supply. 1478. Can you state what quantity of stock would be carried by the railway ?—With reference to stock, I have been driven clean out of the market. We are heavily handicapped by the cost of driving. We have been driven off the market since the railway tapped the Plains. We have settled down to growing wool, as we cannot compete in fat stock. If we had direct railway communication, and the time occupied in driving cattle to market was only one day instead of four or five days, we could compete with other parts of the colony. We lose about six months' grass in the year. 1479. Mr. Olarh.~\ What is the cost per head of driving sheep into the market? —It costs as much to drive 100 as 500, so that it is very hard to calculate the exact cost. 1480. What size flock can be driven with convenience ?—About 500. 1481. What would be the cost per head upon a flock of that number?—The cost would be 6d. per head for driving, and Is. 6d. for depreciation. 1482. What is the percentage of loss in sheep ?—A.bout 2 \ per cent. 1453. What is the cost per head of driving stock? —The cost is from 2s. 3d. to 2s. Od. per head. 1484. Does that include depreciation ? —No. I can hardly tell what the depreciation is. 1485. Can you give an estimate of the average depreciation per head in driving cattle to market? —They lose iu value about 10s. per head. 1486. Then you mean to say that the cost of 2s. 6d. per head in driving cattle renders it better for you, to lose six months' grass ? —We cannot stand such a loss, and it is better to allow the land to remain six months idle. 1487. The same remark will apply in the case of sheep ?—Yes. We cannot stock up. 1488. Mr. Wright.'] Are there any saw-mills at work around the harbour?—Yes ; mine is still at work. 1489. Are there any large reserves of timber to cut ? —There are no large reserves. 1490. To the opening of what railway do you allude when you state that you are shut out of the market for fat stock ? —The railway to the Ashburton Plains. We were able to compete before the railway was opened to Ashburton. 1491. What revenue would* the remaining timber bring to the railway at current rates—at a charge of 2s. 6d. per 100 feet between Akaroa and Christehureh ? —£7,500 would be the total revenue to be derived from sawn timber iu the Akaroa watershed. 1492. You have included in that estimate all that you think would be carried by railway?—Yes. The timber from the lower part of the harbour would go by sea to Lyttelton. 1493. Mr. Reid.] You have mentioned that the cost of driving sheep from here to Christehureh would be 6d. per head: are you aware that it would cost more to convey them by rail ?—Yes. 1494. You spoke of the loss sustained in numbers: are you aware of the fact that sheep get so much knocked about in railway trucks that in many cases the butchers refuse to take them, and that many of the larger companies are now reverting to the old system of driving the sheep by road, instead of sending them by railway ? —I do not know that I can answer that question. It is the great fault of the railway authorities if sheep are knocked about in the trucks. That militates against the Railway Department. I'should send the sheep by the railway, and sheepowners have told me that if a railway were constructed as far as Little River they would frequently send small mobs of sheep by railway. 1495. Mr. Clark.'] What is the cost of conveying timber from Akaroa to Lyttelton by water ? —I have not shipped any recently. When I knocked olf, we were paying 2s. 6d. per 100 feet for carriage of timber to Lyttelton. I think the charge was Is. 4d. per rail to Christehureh. 1496. What is the cost of shipping sheep from Akaroa to Christehureh ? —I have never shipped any sheep. No sheep are shipped. 1497. Are none shipped from Pigeon Bay ? —-None; the sheep are all driven.
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1498. Mr. Wright.'] Is the price of fat stock, including sheep, less in the Christchurch market now than before the main trunk line of railway was opened ?—-I cannot answer that question, as the market fluctuates too much. 1499. If you cannot answer that question in the affirmative, can you say that the competition from the other districts has beaten you out of the market ? —We cannot afford to graze and fatten the same as formerly, because we get a less price. 1500. Mr. Garwood.] "Was there not at one time a heavy traffic between this place and the West Coast ?—-Yes. A few years ago I used to send four or five mobs of cattle of sixty head each to the West Coast. 1501. The West Coast dealers used to come down here regularly for cattle ?—Tes, because we could supply cattle earlier in the season than they could on the Plains. 1502. How has that trade left you ? —Because the dealers can buy cattle in the central market or off the hillsides, which saves about six days' driving. 1503. Was the want of better communication with the centre of population the cause of your losing this trade ?—Tes. 1504. If there had been a railway to Banks Peninsula this trade would not have left you ?—No. We have one of the best tracts of country for grazing in New Zealand; we have good stock upon it; but we are handicapped between driving and carrying. Mr. John Smith sworn and examined. 1505. The Chairman.] What is your occupation ?—I am a saw-mill owner in the Waikirikikiri Bay. 1506. Can you inform the Commission what probability there is of traffic in timber going to the railway from that district ? —My estimate is 6,000 feet per day. 1507. Is that of sawn timber only ? —Tes. 1508. Do you consider there would also be traffic in firewood ? —I can only speak with regard to sawn timber. 1509. Have you any knowledge as to what other produce would probably be carried by the railway from that district ? —I cannot speak of that particular district. I can speak of Le Bon's. Cattle and dairy produce is the main support of the place. 1510. Can you give an estimate of what quantity of produce would be sent out of that district by the railway? —There are eight dairies, with an average of twenty-five cows in each. The production of cheese would be one ton for every seven cows. There would be an average of 2,000 sheep per annum and about a hundred head of cattle on my own property. 1511. Mr. Wright.] How much per 100 feet would it cost you to cart your timber from the sawmill to the railway at Akaroa ? —lt would cost about Is. 3d. per 100 feet. 1512. What is the present cost of sending it by water to Lyttelton ?—The estimated cost is 2s. 6d. to Lyttelton by water, and there is an additional charge of Is. 4d. to Christchurch. 1513. Assuming the cost of railway-carriage from Akaroa to Christchurch to be 2s. 7d., and you pay Is. 3d. for cartage from your mill, making the cost 3s. 10d., that would be precisely the same expense as sending the timber first by sea to Lyttelton and thence by rail to Christchurch ?—Tes. 1514. Therefore a railway at Akaroa would be of no value to you in the way of transport of timber to the Christchurch market? —I am working under great difficulty with regard to shipping. The railway would be better than the shipping accommodation. 1515. How far would you have to cart timber from your mill to Akaroa ? —About 5f miles. 1516. That would be over the range ? —Partly so. 1517. Have you not under-estimated the cost of carting from the mill to Akaroa ? —That is my estimate. I never had any carted at that price. 1518. Mr. Reid.] Tou gave an estimate just now of the product of the dairies in your particular district; you only stated the quantity of stock you might be likely to send from your own farm : can you state what stock and wool would be likely to come from the other farms in the district ?—No, I cannot. 1519. Mr. Ganvood.] Tou did not state how much it costs you to get the timber shipped. I only spoke of the cost of water-carriage. 1520. How much does it cost you to get the timber shipped ? —lt costs me on an average about 9d. per 100 feet. 1521. Mr. Wright.] How far have you to cart the timber from the mill to the vessel ? —About 30 chains. I have to contend with bad weather and heavy seas. The timber has all to go upon surfboats to the vessels. Mr. Jons' B. Baeeee, Little Akaroa. sworn and examined. 1523. The Chairman.] Have you been resident in Little Akaroa for any length of time ?— Twenty-two years. 1524. Tou are well acquainted with the district ?—Tes. 1525. Can you give the Commission any information as to what produce will probably contribute to the traffic on the railway from that district ?—The principal traffic from Little Akaroa would be fat stock, sheep, cheese, and grass-seed. 1520. Can you state what quantity would be contributed each year in the event of a railway being made? —The quantity of cheese sent from Little Akaroa and O'Cain's would be about 160 tons. There would be about the same quantity of grass-seed. There would be about 1,000 head of cattle sent away every year from both those places. Fully that number are sent away every year to the Christchurch market, and they would be sent by rail if a railway were constructed. 1527. Colonel Pearce.] How do you send your stock and dairy produce ? —We drive the stock by the Little lliver, and we have to send the dairy produce the best way we can. Sometimes it is on board the vessel for a week before she can get away, and when there is a gale blowing from the northwest one-half of the produce is sometimes destroyed.
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CiißiSTCHxracn, Thursday, 29th Apeil, 1880. Mr. "William Mowat Hannay sworn and examined. 1528. The Chairman.'] I believe you are Traffic Manager of the section of railway between Temuka and Palmerston, with branches ? —Yes. 1529. The Commission desires to obtain evidence from you in connection with railway management in the direction of suggestions as to economy in working ?—I may inform the Commission that as far as I have control —that is, within the section named —I have exercised the most complete economy that I believe to be compatible with safety—that is to say, so long as the present rates of salaries and wages exist. . 1530. When you speak of complete economy having been already practised, do you refer simply to the management of the line, as the trains are directed to run by the general manager ?—No.- I may say that the designations of Traffic and General Managers are somewhat misleading. I perform exactly the same functions in my section as the General Managers do in their sections at Christchurch, Dunedin, and Invercargill. No trains are run in my section except by my directions. 1531. When I speak of the general manager I refer rather to the officer who fixes the number of trains to be run day by day ? —That is the Commissioner. I may say that with the exception of the express train, which is a through train, all the trains are really fixed by myself. If Ido not consider it advisable for a train to run within my section it does not run. All the local trains within my section only run as I require them. 1532. Have you any suggestions to offer to the Commission that would result in a reduction of the expenditure and increase of receipts?—As I have before said, I believe the whole question of salaries and wages is one that must be considered. In some cases Ido not think the wages are too high; but in others I think that a revision, at least, of the present scale might be advisable. This affects the whole of the railways —not one section only, or one department, but the whole of the men employed in the various departments, including mechanics. I think this matter should be dealt with by the" head of the department —the Commissioner. In taking on men within my section, of course I take them within certain limits of wages laid down for me: Ido not fix the wages. 1533. Have you only a sufficient number of employes to carry out the work required of them ?— Tes. I have not a man who is not doing full work and for full hours daily. I have no man unnecessarily employed. I have made it a rule that if a man is not required he should at once leave the service. I have always endeavoured to carry that out. 1534. Have you any station-masters within your section who could be dispensed with?—Tes. There are two —perhaps three —stations where the station-masters might be dispensed with after the busy season is over. The traffic at those stations for the last nine months, or previous to the grain season, has been very much less than what it was in previous years, when a necessity for those stationmaster's evidently existed. I have asked the Commissioner's authority—and received it —to give three station-masters notice that as soon as the busy season is over their services will be dispensed with. In the case of porters and labourers, if we are busy we take on men; and if we get slack, in a great many cases they are simply dismissed at the end of a week. We do not regard them as belonging to the permanent stafi'. lam responsible for working my section safely, and on the most economical basis. I make whatever recommendations I may consider necessary regarding traffic which may be secured by advantageous rates. 1535. Mr. Beid.~\ The Government have lately been running grain-trams at what appears to be a very low rate. For instance, between Ngapara and Port Chalmers the total rate per ton, including terminal charges, is 13s. lOd. ?—Yes. 1536. Do you think that rate is remunerative to the Government ? —Yes ; I believe the rate of 13s. lOd. per ton to be remunerative. A full load from Ngapara to Port Chalmers would give about £55. That is as much as one engine could take. The distance is 86 miles, and the cost of working, as shown by the last published returns, is 4s. 6d. per train-mile ; so there is a margin of profit. But I may say that in my opinion this rate is too low. The profit is not sufficient, although I believe there is a considerable margin of profit. lam strongly of opinion that in a great portion of the country districts the railways have been made for the grain traffic more than for anything else. It is all we have to depend on, and we should have more than a bare margin of profit. In my opinion the present rate is too low. 1537. In your opinion, would it not be better to make special arrangements with millers and other large purchasers in Dunedin and elsewhere during the slack season of the year, keeping to the ordinary rates during the busy season ? Such a thing was talked about some time ago, and I think it was done in some cases. Do you not think that would be a better plan than to keep to a low rate during the whole season ? —I have never heard of any proposal of that kind ; but there is no doubt that for the economical working of the railway it would be much better if we could distribute the grain season over a greater portion of the year. That has always been a difficulty. The present expense is considerably in excess of what it might be if the work in connection with the grain season were distributed over six months of the year, instead of three months or less. At present we are obliged to employ a great deal of extra labour to work special trains, whereas after the short grain season our trains run verv light. _ ..... 1538. Then you think it would be profitable to the Government if a certain quantity or this gram were kept back until the slack season of the year, and then carried at a low rate, or at the rate you charge now ? —Yes. 1539. Do you think such an arrangement could be made with the millers and farmers ? —I have never heard of such an arrangement, and Ido not think it has been made. If such a proposal has been made, it must have been to the Minister or to the head of the department. The only question is, whether it would be advisable to carry grain during one portion of the year at a lower rate than during another portion. 1540. Might not the Government, by offering an inducement of that kind, secure a uniform traffic throughout the whole season, instead of having to carry all the grain during a short period of the year ? Do you not think such an arrangement would be a benefit to the Government ?—I do indeed.
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1541. Mr. Wriqht.] I would like you to explain why the Timaru and Oamaru Section shows an expenditure of 82 per cent, of receipts, as against 56 per cent, on the Christehurch Section, and C5 per cent, on the Dunedin Section, for the period ending 6thMarch last ? Does this excessive rate arise from the fact that other sections reap a greater benefit from the traffic carried over your section —that is to say, through your not having a good harbour at Oamaru, does a large amount of traffic pass on to Port Chalmers in one direction, and to Lyttelton in the other ? —That is the case. I may state that the percentage of expenditure to receipts for the last four weeks is quite abnormal, and it is owing to the extraordinary expense in the ways and works department, which is £1,200 in excess of the expenditure for the previous four-weekly period, and in excess of what it has been throughout the year. This alone makes a difference of 20 per cent. I have no doubt Mr. Lowe will be able to explain exactly how this was. I learn from a perfectly reliable source that twelve hundred pounds' worth of permanentway material was bought during the four weeks for the use of the line between Oamaru and Palmerston. The average expenditure is £200, so that there was an excess of £1,000 in that period of four weeks for sleepers and permanent-way material. In addition, there is an expenditure of £90 10s. for construction work —that is to say, work authorized by the Minister which will be ultimately paid for out of construction ; but, as a vote for it has not yet been taken, it has in the meantime been paid for out of working expenses. In addition, there has been expenditure of £130 for dismantling the Port Moeraki branch. That makes altogether an extra expenditure of £1,200. I may explain iu connection with the dismantling of the Port Moeraki branch, that the material will be used afterwards in the section, so that we shall get credit for it; but the whole charge of dismantling that branch has fallen upon two or three monthly periods. 1542. Then you think that during the ensuing three months you will be able to show a much better average ?—Undoubtedly. If there had been no abnormal expenditure, the percentage on receipts for this period would be 69, which is higher than the percentage on any of the other three sections, but only 3 per cent, more than Invercargill. I explain that difference by the fact that the main line on this section—Temuka to Palmerston —has no port line whatever. The main line on the Christchurch section includes the Port Lyttelton line, which I consider really makes the returns very fallacious, because there is no doubt that the lines Christehurch to Lyttelton and Dunedin to Port Chalmers work at a very much smaller percentage than 65 or 56, and, the difference being distributed, it reduces the apparent expenditure on the whole sections of Christchurch-Temuka and Palmerston-Clinton. So long as the port-line traffic is put in along with the main-line traffic, there will be a certain fallacy in the returns. 1543. Mr. Reid.] And also so long as this system of charging construction and maintenance against receipts is continued ?—Yes. This is only the second monthly period in which they have been separated. Previous to that separation, with the exception of the information I could get from the cash earnings of the stations —which is not reliable, because one section often works for another section—l had no data to go on in order to find out our earnings. As soon as I found out the extraordinary expenditure I have already referred to, I made representations to the Commissioner, and also to the Eesident Engineer, pointing out that the charging of construction expenditure to working expenses destroyed the reliability of the returns. Both of those gentlemen were aware of it; and, if I rightly understood Mr. Lowe, that expenditure will not be charged to maintenance expenses after the beginning of the new year. It will be charged to an interim suspense account. Any one who is familiar with the port traffic between Christehurch and Lyttelton, and Dunedin and Port Chalmers, must be aware that it is the backbone of the two sections. If the returns are to be really reliable, the traffic on those two lines should be shown as on branch lines. 1544. Mr. Wright.] And to show the relative economy in working the several sections ?—Yes. I do not know what the traffic expenses on the other sections are, but my traffic expenses for the last eight weeks are 16-7 per cent, of the earnings—that is, about one-sixth. That is considerably less than the traffic expenses on English railways. 1545. Mr..Glar7c] Is there not another element in comparing the cost of working the various portions of the main line, which has not been mentioned, and over which the Manager has no control ? that is, when a portion of the main line has as its main terminus a large centre of population, will it not always show to more advantage than a central section ? —Yes. I had a note to adduce that as one reason "why the traffic on such sections is larger; but I omitted it. Of course that is the case. All trains in the neighbourhood of Christehurch or Dunedin, or any large centre, earn more per mile than they possibly could in sparsely-populated districts; and no effort on the part of the Manager can improve that. 1516. Mr. Reid.] Do the four weeks you have just been referring to show a full grain traffic? —None of that traffic. Christehurch had at least ten days or a fortnight of the grain traffic during that period ; but we had none. 1517. Mr. Wright.] To place the several sections of the main line on an equal footing for the purpose of comparison, you would recommend that the port traffic between Christehurch and Lyttelton and'Dunedin and Port Chalmers should be shown separately? —Yes ; as branches, or as separate port main lines. 1548. The Chairman.] So as to make the comparative returns more reliable ?—Yes. Perhaps I hold a peculiar opinion on the question of division altogether ; but I think that the main line from Christehurch to Invercargill is one line, and each part of it is essential to the other. I very much doubt the benefit to be derived from the division of the main line: that is to say, if a portion of the main line does not earn so much as another portion, still, in the nature of things it is a feeder to the other portions, and gives traffic which would not otherwise be obtained by the other portions. 1549. Mr. Wright.] That is perfectly true ; but, for tho sake of showing the relative economy on the part of the several Managers, is it not desirable to adhere to this system ?—ln my annual report to the Commissioner I have stated that I am very glad, personally, that the division has taken place ; and I believe that is also the case with the other Managers. There is no doubt that we shall be more likely to be on our mettle to work in the most economical way. Only the question is, whether, independently of that, the division is of very much value.
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1550; Are you not in the habit of carrying coal over your section free of charge, for the benefit of other sections? —Yes. During nine months of the financial year just ended, I carried 6,927 tons of coal free. 1551. The Chairman.'] Without getting credit in any shape or form ?—No credit whatever. The only thing is, that, so far as the coal which came to my own section is concerned, I expect that the locomotive working expenses have been reduced thereby ; so that we shall get credit in the actual percentage of receipts for what is used in my own section. 1552. Mr. Wright.] But, inasmuch as you carry a large portion of this coal for other sections, those sections should be debited with the carriage of the coal over your portion of the line in order to make the comparison fair ?—Yes ; lam clearly of opinion that it should be so. Nino hundred and fifty-five tons have been carried for the Christchurch Section, and 1,961 tons for the Dunedin Section. There is another item, of 1,154 tons which went to Timaru ; and 1 think half of that might fairly be treated as being for the Christchurch Section. The Timaru engines run north to Ashburton. 1 cannot divide it, except approximately ; and I think that at least 500 tons should be debited to the Christchurch (Section. The half of the total quantity has been carried for other sections. 1553. What would be the money-value of, say, 3,500 tons of coal carried for other sections ?—At present rates the money-value would be about £700. 1551. So that, by this system of carrying coal free, your returns are £700 to the bad, and the other sections £700 to the good ? —Yes. That is, at the public rates. All the coal for the Christchurcli Section was carried 100 miles—from Shag Point to Temuka. For the Dunedin Section it was only carried 8 miles —from Shag Point to Palmerston. For the Christchurch Section, the carriage of coal has fallen off lately. Since the Springfield mine was opened, six or eight months ago, we have been carrying comparatively little coal for the Christchurch Section. 1555. In your opinion, for the purpose of accurate comparison as to economy on the several sections, should the work done by one section for another be brought to account in all cases ? —Yes. I think that in every case the work done by one department or section, for another should be debited not only to the section, but to the department for which the work is done. 1556. In the carriage of permanent-way material for extensions or the construction of new lines, is the price credited to the traffic department sufficient to cover the expense ? —Yes. I think the amount we got from the Public Works Department just defrays the actual cost of haulage. It is halfrate. Of course, it' the receipts are to be taken, as the basis, it does not. In reality we do no labour, and the material is in full wagon-loads in all cases. 1557. I understood you to say that the distance from Ngapara to Port Chalmers was 175 miles ?— No ; 86 miles : but our train-mileage is both ways. In hauling grain you have to count the distance as double, because, as a rule, there is no back-loading. That is one reason why our business is not profitable. 1558. Then practically it costs £38 ss. in working expenses to earn £55 ?—Yes, I think that is pretty near the figure. 1559. And if trains run with anything short of a maximum load the margin of profit is reduced ? —Yes ; but I think it may be taken that the trains really always have full loads. At least, since the rate was reduced, and since the grain season commenced, we have been able to load all our trains. With the new American engines a larger load than sixteen wagons can be taken. As many as twenty wagons have been taken. That would to some extent increase the amount earned by full loads. Sixteen wagons may be considered a very fair load throughout. 1560. Mr. Clark.} Does your calculation respecting receipts and expenditure in connection with a load include wear and tear?—Yes ; it includes maintenance and renewal. 1561. But does it include a proportion for wear and tear of rolling-stock apart from the mere cost of keeping it in working order ? —No; it only includes the ordinary renewal. 1562. And the renewal which has been incurred since the line was opened, and what is now being incurred from period to period ? —Yes, that is all. 1563. As the plant gets older, will not the cost of renewals increase ? —Yes; and after a time the plant will require to be replaced altogether. In speaking of free work, I may say that we do a great deal more than what is done by one Manager for another, or for the Public Works Department. We carry all policemen and prisoners, Public Works officers, and members of the Press free. We carry the mails at a nominal rate of 3s. per mile, which is supposed to be the actual cost of running the train. 1564. Mr. Wri<jlU.~\ When you speak of the receipts on the Timaru-Oamaru Section as being less than in previous years, is that owing to a general falling-off in traffic, or to the rates being lower ? — Lately the traffic has been considerably less than in previous years. The principal stations in the district are Timaru and Oamaru, and at those stations the ordinary merchandise traffic both ways, exclusive of the grain traffic, is 15 per cent, less than it was last year. The passenger traffic is 10 per cent. 15G5. Under the head "merchandise traffic," would you include permanent-way materials?—No. If it were public-works material for which we were paid, it would be included ; but of course anything we carry free is not included in the returns. 1566. Then the cessation of railway construction in different localities would necessarily cause a falling-off in the general merchandise returns ?—Yes, to some extent. During last year, a3 compared with, the previous year, there have been very few public works going on in my district. 1567. So that the loss is due to a cessation of the ordinary mercantile traffic?—To some extent. In. analyzing the returns, I found that a considerable portion of the falling-off was due to less merchandise being sent to the country stores, and less building material and fencing to the farmers. I tear that a great deal of that kind of work is done, and that we shall not get it again. 1568. 1 am told that timber is occasionally carried from Invercargill to Christchurch by rail. Seeing that that timber is carried 375 miles at -gd. per 100 feet, do you think the rate charged covers the cost ? —No. If timber is carried 375 miles at that rate, it is less than the cost of carriage. There are 480 feet of timber to the ton. 1569. The charge for a dead load of eight tons would be fd, per mile?—Yes. 12— E. 3.
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1570. Does not such a charge involve a heavy loss to the railway ? —Yes. I am of opinion that that rate is much too low. I have not full information on this subject, because very little, if any, timber has come into my section ; but I understand that this rate was made specially to secure the timber traffic between the Southland mills and Dunedin. If the result of the rate is to cause large quantities of timber to be sent to Christchurch, I think the rate is very much too low. 1571. But, even as regards the traffic between Invercargill and Dunedin, the timber would be carried for a distance of 63 miles, out of the total distance of 138 miles, at this low rate ?—Yes. But you must take into consideration the fact that, if we have full loads for the whole distance of 138 miles, in order to ascertain the actual earnings you must calculate the cost of carriage per mile throughout the whole distance. 1572. That is to say, if there is a considerable profit on the first 75 miles, you could afford to run the balance of the distance at a loss ?—Yes. For 138 miles the charge would be 3s. 4d. per 100 feet. 1573. What would the rate from Invercargill to Dunedin amount to per 100 feet ?—Three shillings and fourpence per 100 feet, or £3 6s. Bd. for a truck-load of 2,000 feet. 1574. Would that be a remunerative rate to the Government?—Yes. I believe that rate would be remunerative if there was a large and steady traffic ; but it would not leave a very large margin of profit. 1575. Mr. Clark.] Do you mean it would pay expenses?—Yes ; it would, clearly. 1576. Mr. Wright.'] Would it be a profitable traffic if the trucks have to return empty ?—ln that case I consider it would not be profitable ; but I am speaking without very much data, because I do not know the quantity of timber used in the Dunedin market. In the case of Dunedin and Invercargill, the general merchandise goes southward and the timber northward. 1577. Supposing the timber to be carried on special timber-trucks, which are run back empty, would it pay the railway ? —No ; the rate would be too low. Ido not know, as a matter of fact, what kind of trucks the timber is carried on. 1578. Mr. Glarlc] Then would you recommend that the rate for the carriage of timber should be assimilated to the rate for grain, to leave a fair margin of profit ?—Yes ; I think we should carry no class of goods without having a fair margin of profit. In my opinion the bad percentage of receipts is owing to the fact that the rates have not been high enough in the case of some classes of goods. 1579. Do you consider that ijd. per 100 feet for the first 50 miles, and id. afterwards, would be a fair charge?—Yes. The old rate, which was |d. for the first 30 miles, and |d. afterwards, was, I think, a very fair charge for timber. I understand the rate was altered, because, under the old rate, the railway got no timber traffic from Invercargill to Dunedin, and the new rate was thought to be reasonable. Ido not know whether the result has proved it to be so or not. 1580. Mr. Beid.] With reference to the passenger traffic on the branches under your charge, do you think that it is necessary to run as many trains for the accommodation of passengers during the dull season as it is at present ? —That is a matter I have considered very seriously. On all my branch lines we run two trains per day —one in the morning, returning immediately, and another in the afternoon, returning immediately. The difference in the cost of running one train per day and two trains per day would be almost infinitesimal, unless we could arrange to work two branches together, giving one a service in the morning and the other a service in the afternoon. If you do not do that, you must have an engine and set of men to do the work ; so that the actual cost of the second train is only 2s. per mile. 1581. Mr. Wright.'] And the wear and tear ? —Yes. From a calculation I have made over a number of years I think 2s. per mile is the least we can run a train for. 1552. Mr. Beid.] Do you not think it would suit some of these branches if a train were run every alternate day ? Supposing you had one staff—engineer, stoker, and guard—who could take two or three of those branch lines, and give them a morning and evening train twice a week, or every alternate day, do you not think that w7ould be sufficient in most cases for the traffic ?—ln the case of the Ngapara line, I do not think it would do ; because, there being considerable gradients on the line, two light engines are required to do the work, even during the slack season. This, of course, will be obviated as soon as heavier rails are obtained. If your suggestions were carried out, the whole system of charging passenger fares would have to be altered. In my annual report I have opposed very strongly the issue of Saturday single tickets. So long as Saturday single tickets are issued, you will require to give two trains at least to each branch on Saturdays. 1583. Would not much less facility for getting in and out of town be sufficient for the requirements ? Could not people make their arrangements for a train two or three days per week, instead of every day? —Yes; but I am very doubtful whether w re should not lose many occasional passengers, whose fares would pay at least for the cost of running the train—2s. per mile. 1584. Mr. Olark.] Is the estimate of 2s. per mile exclusive of wages ? —On a branch line there are the station-masters ; but, if you have the same traffic, you must have the same men —engine-driver, stoker, and guard. 1585. But, even if you do not send the engine to ?«nother branch, could you not send the men alone to do the work ? —There "would be a difficulty in that. There is no doubt that in the meantime the branch lines are worked very economically, because there are no officers on the branches except at the end. If the arrangement now suggested were carried out, that expense would go on to a very great extent. The principal saving would be in the running of the train. The locomotive cost is Is. Id. per mile, and I consider that it costs 2s. per train-mile, allowing for wear and tear. Therefore the cost of running one train per day would simply be 2s. per mile ; and I think the chance traffic might make up for that, and more. We have, perhaps, given more facilities than are necessary ; but if we curtail those facilities too much, we shall certainly lose passenger traffic. Between Timaru and Oamaru of course the goods traffic alone requires two trains per day. At present we have two trains per day and a goods train, but after the busy season we shall knock off the goods train. 1586. Mr. Beid.] Then you think no economy could be exercised in that direction?—l am afraid it could not be done without interfering with the public convenience and the revenue we at present derive. Originally there was only one train per day on the Duntroon brauch; but we derived a con-
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siderable increase of traffic from the alteration. If you send atraia to town from the end of the branch, you have to take the people back, and you must take the train back to town again. There is the great difficulty. I may mention another matter in connection with the branches. The percentage on the branches is to some extent misleading ; because, if a branch acts as a natural feeder to the main line, it really does a large amount of good independently of the actual earnings and expenditure on the branch itself. 1587. Mr. Olarlc.~] That is, it adds to the traffic ? —Yes. For instance, the Shag Point branch is supposed to cost nearly three times what we earn on it; but in reality it is giving a traffic of about £120 a week to the main line. The following is a return of traffic sent to and received from Shag Valley for nine months ending 31st March, 1880 : —- Sent from Palmerston to Shag Valley, 331,000 superficial feet of timber, 123 tons of coal, 2,253 tons of general merchandise. Received at Palmerston from Shag Valley, 8,012 bales of wool, 173 tons of grain, 153 tons of general merchandise. [Note.—This includes only such goods as hare gone direct from Palmerston Station to the Valley, or have been received at Palmerston Station direct from the Valley. Considerable traffic would of course pass through the hands of persons resident at Palmerston, and would not show hero.J 1588. Mr. Wright.~\ I see that the returns for the Albury line show very favourably. Is that due to any portion of the working expenses being debited to the Timaru Station ?—No. In the distribution of my share of the expenses, I charged all that could be fairly charged to the branch; but no doubt there is some difficulty in the division. If the main line were not in existence, and the Albury branch, were by itself, the expenditure at Timaru—-which would be the terminus-—would be very considerable ; but that, of course, has not been charged to it. 1589. Bat is not a proportion of the charges at Timaru placed to the debit of the Albury traffic ? —- No. The only charge I have made is the wages of one man at Timaru Station, which I consider a fair, charge, because the man's services are required for ordinary branch work. The Timaru Station has got credit for the terminal charges, so that of course the main line has got credit in that way. 1590. As all the traffic from the Albury branch has to traverse the main line from Washdyke to Timaru, is the main line credited with that ? —Yes. I cannot imagine that it would be charged otherwise. 1591. Are you in favour of the reduced grain rate ? —I am not at all in favour of it. The old rate was 2|-d. per ton per mile for the first 50 miles, lid. per ton per mile between 50 and 75 miles, and Id. per ton per mile beyond 75 miles. The present rate is 2d. for the first 50 miles, and Id. afterwards. In fact, the reduction has lost us one-fifch of our grain revenue within a radius of 50 miles of any part of the main line and branches. 1592. Mr. Clark.] And without materially increasing the traffic ? —lt increases the traffic in length. The object of the reduced rate was to carry large quantities of grain to the chief ports ; and it was thought that we should have so much additional haulage for long distances as would recoup us for the loss on short distances and give us a profit as well. 1593. Have those anticipations been realized? —In the case of my section it will always be a dead loss, because we are getting no increased traffic. Of course it is a wider question than that, because if the rate gave a largely-increased revenue to the whole line, it would bo right; but I am strongly of opinion that it will not be so in the end. 1591. Mr. Wright.'] Do you think that the rates on the whole are too low to give a profitable return to the railway P —l am of opinion that they are. As far as I know, the old rate was never complained of by the farmers. If we carry 300,000 tons of grain for an average distance of 25 miles —which I think is a fair average, because we carry considerable quantities from 10 miles to 50 miles— we lose Is. a ton on 300,000 tons for the whole line. I do not know what quantity is carried in the other Island. 1595. The Chairman.] Have you had any experience in working railways in other countries ? —■ Yes ; the whole of my training has been in connection with railways. I entered the service of the Glasgow and South-western Railway in 1863, and I have spent the whole of my years since in connection with railways. I came to New Zealand four years ago. 1596. Prom memory, can you compare the rates for heavy cargo in New Zealand with those obtaining in Scotland?—l remember one particular case in which the grain rate for a distance of 90 miles was 12s. Gd. per ton. Here for the same distance the rate would be 14s. Bd. In Scotland or England grain can hardly be considered as a staple for which the railway companies make special rates. It is not so much so as in this colony. The general merchandise rates here are very much heavier than at Home. 1597. Mr. Clark.] On the other hand, in the case of England and Scotland there w rould be no return empties ?—No ; there would be a load both ways always. There is no doubt that we could do a very much larger trade with our present equipments. lam quite satisfied that on my section I could carry double the present traffic, and certainly not expend one-fourth more in carrying it. The grain is being carried during the present season at almost no additional cost. lam not expending for traffic purposes £100 a month extra, and the locomotive department in the section is expending almost nothing extra. So that really we are carrying the heavy traffic of the grain season with the same staff as we had previously. 1598. Are you in favour of a uniform rate of carriage throughout the colony ?—No. This has so often been made a parliamentary question that my opinion would not be of much value ; but it is this : If the railways are to be managed on a commercial basis, so as to show a clear profit, there should certainly be differential rates. 1599. Do you think that the elements of cost of construction, cost of haulage, and the amount of traffic should be taken into consideration in fixing the rate ?—Yes. Managers at Home, in fixing the rates, invariably do take those elements into consideration. The manager of a railway at Home—or of any company —considers the questions of cost and a margin of profit. He considers the question of dividend in making his rate. He calculates the cost of the work, and the cost of the capital employed in doing the work, and he has to make a margin of profit,
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IGOO. The Chairman.'] Is there no credit given to the Eailway Department for the conveyance of police and prisoners ?—There is no credit given for the conveyance of police, prisoners, or Public Works O LILCGPS 1601. Do yon know that as a matter of fact? Are yon aware that in the case of the Defence Office credit is given to the Eailway Department for the conveyance of Volunteers along the line?— Yes ;I am aware that in the case of the Defence Office wo do get credit: I purposely did not mention the Defence Department. , . 1602. Mr. Wright.'] On what grounds would you recommend the stoppage of the Saturday single tickets ?—I am of opinion that the "privilege of Saturday single tickets is considerably abused. Very often the purchaser does not return by the ticket, but somebody else does; and at least it leaves a very wide door open for abuse, because any one travelling on Saturday holds his ticket, the guard or collector has no knowledge whether or not a passenger intends to return, and the passenger may transfer or sell his ticket. 1603. Those tickets being available for any one up to the following Monday?— Yes. My recommendation re^ardino' tickets altogether is that fares should bo somewhat reduced, and return tickets altogether abolished—which would, of course, abolish the Saturday single ticket. I really tail to see the benefit of return tickets. The real object of return tickets is to secure the return of the passenger over the same line as he travelled by originally—to secure him for the double journey. In the case ot colonial lines that is already secured ; and I have always been unable to see why, and I consiaer it unjust, that a man travelling 50 miles straight one way should have to pay, first-class, 12s. 6d., while a man travelling 25 miles out and 25 miles in should only have to pay 9s. sd.—one-iourth less. _ 1604. Is it not to a certain extent intended to induce people to use the railway by visiting thenfriends and so forth ?—ln the case of Saturday tickets, I believe the intention was to induce people to go out of the large cities to the country, and vice versa. _ 1605. Would not your object be gained if a small difference were made m the price ot tne baturday tickets—that is to "say, if they were issued, not at single fares, but at a fare and a quarter ?—Yes, my object would then be attained. ■ 1606. The Chairman.] Or, if returns were abolished on other days and retained on Saturdays t— Yes. lam very doubtful indeed as to whether the extensive use of single tickets on Saturdays has tended to an increased profit. We issue single tickets for shows, races, and so forth. Looking at it from the point of view of profit to the railway, I am doubtful whether we have derived any profit irom the use of single tickets. 1607. But in many cases, where the racecourses are not a longdistance from the towns, nave you not to compete with omnibuses and other vehicles ?—I do not desire to have alteration made in that 1608. Mr. Wright.] Do you think that, ordinary return tickets being issued at a fare and a halt during five days in the week, Saturday tickets might properly be issued at a fare and a quarter?—Yes. If retained, I think they should bo somewhat more than ordinary single fare, to prevent the abuse that now exists. • ' 1609. Mr. Clark.] In doing that would you not increase the number of tickets? lou cannot have a different rate for the same ticket?—My original proposal—and Ido not see much reason to chano-e it—is to abolish return tickets and reduce the single fares somewhat, no exception at all. being made on Saturday. But, if that be not adopted, I think there should be some addition made to the price of the Saturday single ticket. . 1610. Mr.Beid.] Can you make any suggestion as to economy in working the lines .'—l have already indicated that, in my opinion, some of the rates might be judiciously increased without loss ot traffic—in the ease of grain especially. There would also be economy in reducing the speed ot running the trains. In fact, the speed has been reduced. Within my section the maximum speed for tne express trains is 25 miles an hour, and that is only on the level. The maximum southwards is 20 miles an hour. Ido hot speak as an expert on that subject. 1611. Do you think a further reduction would, be beneficial to the Eailway Department ?—1 think the reduction made in the last time-table will be beneficial in point of wear and tear. In the case of goods trains I have reduced the speed to 12 miles an hour, and have given liberal allowances for stoppages in addition, so that that should bo the maximum rate of running for heavy trams, lhe question of salaries and wages I have already mentioned. That is really a very wide question, and affects the whole of the departments and sections. I am very clearly of opinion that 7s. a day— tho minimum—is not too much for a good porter even at the present rate of wages, because there is no doubt we must have a superior class of labourer to choose from. We could get many men for less, but they would not be at all suitable. , . 1612. Mr. Wright.] Do you think that reductions might bo made in several directionsm the matter of wages ?—I think so, if it were general. The only thing is, that the Government rate of wages would fix the srate of wages for the whole country. Ido not know that it is so ; but^in tho case of mechanics I do not think that the Government should pay more than ordinary mechanics' wages. They are liable to leave at any time when work is slack. 1613. Do the Government now pay more than ordinary rates ?—I do not know that they are pavin"- more. In the case of station-masters —with whom lam more particularly connected —their salaries are based on the salaries which ruled some years ago. Then, of course, there is long service and intelligent service to be considered; and I have never found it advisable to have men underpaid. I think that in the matter of wages and salaries the colony is in a transition state just now, and it may be advisable to revise the whole scale, because it was fixed two or three years ago. I may be allowed to bear testimony to the fact that the men I have seen on the railways here, considering their inexperience in a great many cases, are certainly equal to, if not better than, the same number of men on the Homo railways. They are more sober, and more amenable to orders, and, generally, they are a superior class of men. Some years ago there was a great deal which they did not know, and which they had to learn ; but, taking the men as instructed, I really would prefer to keep tho men I have than to take an equal number of men from the railway I came from.
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1014. Mr. Reid."] Would you explain the extra expenditure on the Ngapara branch railway ? —- Instead of being 15SJ per cent., the actual expenditure is 113 per cent, for the period. It is really over the earnings, but it h;is to bo reduced by 45 per cent, on account of construction work. There is construction expenditure to the extent of £2-11 for the eight weeks, which reduces tho published returns from 158J- per cent, to 113 per cent. Of course this period does not include any portion of the grain season. During tho period it was almost all passenger traffic, and it was really after the wool season. In tho case of branch lines a comparison of one or two four-weekly periods is very misleading. 1615. "What is your experience of tho working of the Ngapara line ? Has it been a payable branch or otherwise, taking it all tho year round? —Unfortunately I am not able to give a definite opinion on that question. This is the first period of eight weeks which has ever been divided truly. An approximate statement was laid before the House last session, but I do not think it was quito accurate. The grain season should bo included. Mr. J. H. Lowe, Engineer for Constructed Railways, Middle Island, sworn and examined. 1616. Mr. Wright.'] Would you give the Commission some information as to the cost of maintenance of the Government railways ? —1 have with me some notes of the expenditure for maintenance on the different sections and branches, as I keep them subdivided. I have returns made up for the four weeks ending 7th February from Amberley down to Palmerston, which was my former district. It was only in February last that I was appointed to take charge of the whole of the lines ; consequently I have not had the whole of the returns subdivided until the four weeks ending 6th March, and, again, for the 31st March. I can give the returns for these two periods for the whole line, from Amberley to Kingston, on the various sections. The following are the returns : — Table I. —Ambeelet-Biat]?]? Railway. —Table showing Expenditure on various Sections during Four Weeks ended 7th February, 6th March, and Period ended 31st March, 1880, with equivalent Kate per Mile for Four Weeks.
* Palmerston-Dunedin, 40-43 miles. Glendermid-Part Chalmers, 109 miles. 1617. Colonel Pearce."] Where one class of rails is substituted for another, is that considered part of the charge for maintenance? —Not exactl}\ In some cases we have purchased new rails and put them in, and the charge has been included in the amounts I have just read; but we have had certain quantities of rails advanced by the Public Works Department, and they have not been laid at our cost. 1618. But, in any case, the labour connected with the substitution of the rails will be charged?— Yes ; the labour has always been charged. That irregularity lias somewhat complicated the accounts of expenditure. The accounts do not show completely the cost of maintenance, either exclusive or inclusive of renewals of permanent way. 1619. From that point of view, the line doing the most work will have the largest amount charged to it for keeping up the permanent way: that is to say, if the old rails are found too light for the amount of traffic, new rails have to be supplied, thus increasing the cost of keeping the permanent way
Line or Branch. Miles. Expenditure for Four Weeks ending 7th February. Kate per Mile per Four Weeks. Expenditure for Four Weeks ending 6tll March. Rate per Mile per Four Weeks. Expenditure for Period ending 31st March. Eate per Mile .for Period. Equivalent Four Full Weeks. Lyttelfon and Christch. Main line — Amberley-Temuka ... Tcmuka-Oamura Oamaru-Palmerston Pbaugiora-Oxford Kaiapoi-Bennett's SouUibridge ... Malveru Whitccliffs ... Albuvy WainiF.te Duntrooa Ngapara Breakwater, Oamaru ... Shag Point ... 6 £ a. d. £ £ s. a. 239 13 5 £ 40 £ a. d. 387 2 5 £ 94 £ 103 120'Gl 63-28 S4-J9 22-7 20-7 2539 30-fil 11-40 25-5 i 4-40 21-33 14-77 004 1-67 2,095 13 2 770 8 10 940 6 6 170 14 6 144 5 9 328 13 2 153 lti 9 77 4 2 133 (5 1 38 9 7 100 13 6 240 19 0 14 17 10 24 8 10 1G 12 28 8 7 13 5 7 5 8 8 17 19 13 2,258 18 4 937 11 3 2,066 4 1 119 18 2 143 0 9 275 6 6 222 3 7 60 10 5 139 3 8 21 12 9 ] 30 G 8 2G8 11 3 2 8 0 23 4 0 18 16 01 5 7 II. 7 6 5 5 6 17 3 13 1,402 9 2 099 2 1 937 9 5 116 3 7 114 18 7 234 9 11 197 6 6 74 16 9 91 3 0 ]9 11 0 111 10 9 120 2 3 8 14 9 28 15> 11 12 11 27 5 6 9 6 7 4 3 5 7 11 15 13 12 30 6-6 6-7 10 6-7 7-8 4-3 3-4 5-6 7-8 12 16 Palmei'ston, Port Chalmers, (o Dunedin Dunedin-Clinton Clinlon-Invereargill ... Inveroargill-BlufE Walton Park Jii-anch ... Ontram Branch 3Jawrenoe Branch Invercargili-Winton ~t Winton—Kingston ) Hiverton Branch O tautau Branch sj.1-52 1,171 7 8 28 1,248 5 0 29 32 73-38 05-43 17 4 9-03 22 1,873 9 8 639 0 3 279 10 0 31. 2 7 99 0 8 247 3 10 31 9 10 42!) 10 8 83 3 4 13 8 0 25 10 16 8 11 11 1,867 7 5 537 9 7 253 11 9 33 10 2 125 18 7 233 2 2 84 3 9 392 0 10 192 8 7 125 4 1 25 8 15 8 14 11 27 9 16 9 15 12 87-1(5 C ... - ( ) 5 < I • 56 1745 11-35 5 1 11 11 12 12 Christelmreh Section ... Oamaru Section Dunedin Section Invercargill Section 237-55 170-21 149-73 198-59 :;;;i9 17 2 3,5S6 18 0 3,425 4 5 1,479 15 0 14 21 23 7-4 2,527 13 11 2,016 9 2 3,508 3 10 1,584 18 7 10-6 12 23-4 8 110 13 26 8-9 Total ... 14 755-48 11,811 1-i 7 15'6 9,637 5 0 327
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in order ? —I could not say that that is the case entirely, for it would depend not only upon the weight of the metals, but also upon the age of the line and the character of the formation. We have sections •with a very different weight of permanent way and a very different class of formation; and then the age varies considerably: all those elements have to be taken into account. The part of the railway where wo are now spending most money for renewal of way is where the 40-lb. rails were laid on the main line. In the same way we have had to renew some branch lines where 28-lb. rails were laid. They were found unfit for the work. Part of the Ngapara line, and the Otautau branch, had to be relaid shortly after they were opened for traflic. 1620. Has that been always treated as part of the expense of keeping the permanent way in order ?—No ; that was not done in either of these cases. The authority was issued by the Minister, and the work was charged for through the Public Works Department. It thus became a charge to capital in both cases. 1621. Mr. Wright.'] There is a very noticeable difference between the cost of maintenance per mile on some of these sections, and even on sections of the main line, where the traffic may presumably be almost equal. For instance, on the Amberley-Temuka Section the cost is £12 per mile ;on the section from Oamaru to Palmerston it is £28 per mile. How do you account for that ? —I think that very great difference is accounted for by the character of the railway formation : that is to say, the gradients and curves are so very different. On the section from Temuka to Oamaru the ruling grade is lin 100. From Oamaru to Palmerston the ruling grade is lin 50, and the minimum curve 9 chains. To a great extent, 1 attribute the difference in the expenditure on permanent way to the gradients and curves ; and other expenditure is for the maintenance of works under heading of grading, due to the nature of the formation. It is hilly country from Oamaru to Palmerston, and consequently embankments and cuttings are a more considerable source of expense. Slips have to be cleared away, and embankments made up to level and widened, which also involves new ballasting. That has been a very heavy source of expense in the past. 1622. Mr. Beid.] Is that likely to continue a heavy source of expense for any length of time ? —I regard the cost of maintaining the earthworks as an expenditure that will die out; and it is evidently doing so at present. I have examined into the proportions of maintenance expenses as against the original cost of the construction of the line, and I have separated those items of expense in the original construction on which no renewal will take place, from the other items of construction which will require renewal; and what we call the grading—that is, earthworks, tunnels, retaining-walls, and all the classes of work which enter into the foundation of the railway—should, in the course of a few years, be included in the first category, and require no further expenditure at all. 1623. Mr. Wright.] The principal items in renewals would be rails and sleepers ?—Yes. I could give you a^ statement showing the proportions of renewals of permanent way compared with the renewals of other works. 1621. What percentage of renewals have you to carry out annually over the miles in your charge ? —I have a statement here which I drew up on the basis of the last Public Works Statement, for the year ending 30th June, 1879. It is as follows :—
Table II.—Table showing Cost of Amberley-Kingston Railway and Branches to 30th June, 1879.
The capital expenditure for the Amberley-Kingston lino is there given as £3,568,844'. Taking out the details, I will read to you those items in the expenditure whicli are not liable to renewal. They are —the cost of the land, the expenses connected with the purchase of the land, the surveys, the grading, engineering, and incidental expenses. These headings amount in the aggregate to £1,159,449, or 33 per cent. —say one-third of the whole cost of the line. The remaining items are —the bridges, which are 16 per cent, of the whole ; fencing, 3 per cent.; permanent way, 35 per cent.; stations and buildings, including wharves, 13 per- cent. So that the permanent way —that is, rails, sleepers, and fastenings —represents as much as all the rest of the charges liable to renewal, and rather more than 35 per cent, of the whole cost of the line. 1625. From your experience in the renewal of rails and sleepers, can you say what percentage of the total mileage yon have to replace annually?—lt would not be safe" to estimate it at less than 55 miles per annum on the present mileage, which amounts to a total of 763 miles. I have made an approximate estimate of what I imagine should be the amount that might be reasonably set down if it were intended to open a renewal fund—that is, with the object of showing what the expenses should annually be to keep the railway in a state of renovation in perpetuity. The following is the table: —
Particulars, Cost. Percentage of Items to the Whole. Land—cost Land —expenses Surveys a-rading [Engineering Incidental £ ... | 109,924 3'5 18,486 05 ... I 35,982 1-0 ... ' 860,977 24-1 123,623 35 10,452 0-4 Total final expenditure ... j £1,159,449 33 33 Permanent way Bridges and culverts ' ... Stations and buildings Fencing Total works subject to renewal Grand total coat of line 1,201,637 35 568,945 16 465,279 13 ... ! 113,534 3 ... I £2,409,395 67 ... I £3,568,844 100
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Table III. —Approximate Estimate of Average Annual Cost of Renewals of Permanent Way and Works on AmberleyKingston Railway to maintain it in Perpetuity ; calculated on the Basis of original Cost of Construction, as given in Table II., for 763 Miles of Railway.
I have arrived at the estimate in the following manner: I take the bridges at twenty-five years' life. The total expenditure on bridges is stated by the Minister for Public Works to be half a million. A considerable portion of that has been expended on iron bridges, the life of which will be very long; a certain proportion has also been spent on masonry piers of bridges and culverts, and the life of these will be very long : but a considerable proportion of the culverts, and most of the bridges, are wooden structures. If these were made of really durable timber, they might stand for more than twenty-five years ; but a very large proportion of the timber will not last anything like so long. Not having definite figures as to the proportion of the permanent structures as against the perishable ones, I have estimated the average life of the bridges at twenty-five years ; but I quite admit that that estimate may be liable to considerable modification. That would represent an annual renewal charge of £22,757 for the bridges. Another very serious item of renewal is fencing. That expenditure is put down in the Ministerial Statement at £118,534. The fencing cannot be reckoned at more than ten years' purchase, a considerable portion of which period has already elapsed. That would represent an annual expenditure of £11,353 for renewal. lam still speaking of the Amberley-BlutT line, including the branches. "When giving the expenditure it was quoted at 755 miles in length, but I am now calling it 763 miles; the difference being the length of the Tinwald branch, recently opened. This branch is 10 miles 60 chains long. The maintenance of it will not, however, fall on my department for the whole ensuing year. Making allowance for this, the maintenance of the above lOf miles for part of the year is equivalent to maintaining 8 miles for a whole year: I therefore add 8 miles to the former 755, and obtain a total of 763 miles now under maintenance. Then, the permanent way I estimate, on the basis of fourteen years' life, at an annual renewal charge of £101,235. Stations, buildings, and wharves are stated to have cost £165,279. I have put this down at twenty-five years' purchase, which makes an annual charge of £18,611. That makes a total annual renewal charge of £153,956. 1626. Can you say what percentage that represents on the total coat of the works ? —Rather over 4 per cent, on the cost of the railway. Then it should be borne in mind that the figures I have given for the cost of renewing plant and structures do not include the expenditure which is always necessary to keep the track in line and level, and general surfacing, and daily supervision—that is to say, a staff of men must be maintained to keep the line constantly in a fit state to travel over. 1627. Mr. Clarh.~] Are the amounts now charged to maintenance day by day of the character you speak of—that is to say, daily maintenance ; and are they included, or partly included, in the 4 per cent. P —■ They are partly included. That could be ascertained by comparing the statement lam now giving with what it actually is. I keep the expenditure on the maintenance of the line classified under all these various headings, and it will be seen that in very few instances do they come up to anything like what I have given, the reason being that the greater length of the line is comparatively new, and we have not yet attained the rate of expenditure that the figures I have given prognosticate ; but if you add to the amounts which I have now given a certain sum for track-surfacing, that will give you approximately the total expenditure. 1628. After the lines have been opened some time ?—'Yes; taking the railways as they now are, and keeping them permanently in a state of repair and renewal. I reckon that we must add to that amount the sum of £60,000 for track-surfacing. That may possibly be brought down somewhat. When the lines all through are got into a better state than they are in now, fewer men will be required, especially in Otago ; but the number of men now kept on the lines in Canterbury is, I believe, as few as will ever be maintained. 1629. Will not that make altogether 5| per cent, per annum?—Tes; nearly 6 per cent. I have it worked out at £213,000, or at the rate of £280 per mile. On most of these items which are the serious ones, such as permanent way, an enormous saving on the annual renewal charges might be made it' the lines were relaid with a better class of material such as sleepers and rails. We have a large proportion now of 40-lb. rails, which are unsuited to the traffic, and it is on that account that I have put down the life of the whole at only fourteen years. If we had all the 40-lb. rails renewed with 53---or 60-lb. steel rails, with jarrah sleepers, the life of the rails might bo put down at twenty-five years, and the sleepers at twenty-one years, instead of seven, as I now reckon the sleepers on the line.
Particulars of Original Cost of Construction. Cost. Period assumed for Complete Renewal. Estimated Average Annual Cost of Renewals. £ 109,924 18,480 35,982 134,080 860,977 Years. £ Land Expenses of purchase Surveys Engineering and incidental trading ... Total not liable to renewal £1,159,449 Bridges Fencing Permanent way, England ,, Ifew Zealand Stations, buildings, and wharves 568,945 113.534 690,884 570,753 465,279 25 10 14 11 25 22,757 11,353 49,349 51,886 18,611 Total liable to renewal... £2,409,395 Total estimated average annual renewals ... £153,956
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1629a. Mr. Wright.'] You have given a sum of £153,956 as an estimate of the annual renewal charge : can you say how much of that is now swallowed up ? —The actual expenditure is £157,318, as against.my estimate of £153,956. .1630. Then you are spending more at present than your estimate ? —Wo ; because the actual expenditure includes track-surfacing. If you add £60,000 on to £153,958, you have £213,956 as the repairs and renewal charges, including everything. 1631. And the actual expenditure is £157,000? —Yes; so that it is considerably within my estimate. 1632. Then something like 1} per cent, over and above working expenses is required to cover the estimated wear and tear of permanent way ? —Yes. I should like to submit another statement, to be put in comparison with the one I have already given—some of the items are the same: — Table IV. —Approximate Estimate of Average Annual Cost o£ Eonowals of Permanent Way and Worts on the Ambei'leyKingston liailway to maintain it in perpetuity; computed on the Basis of present actual Cost of llcnewals for 763 Miles of Railway.
Some of the ifcrns are the same, because I am not at present in a position to go into them more fully. I have made another estimate, taking the bridges and culverts at the same amount —namely, £22,700 — and fencing at the same amount, £11,353. Then I take the permanent way, at fourteen years' renewal, as equal to 55 miles per annum on the 763 miles to be renewed. The cost of that as supplied to me through the Government stores is £800 a mile. That is equivalent to £44,000 per aunum. Sleepers I have put at seven years' duration, which is equivalent to 109 miles. Counting thorn at 4a. apiece, the cost is £43,000, and the labour of relaying the 55 miles £6,000, per annum; or a total of £93,000. That is somewhat less than I gave it before, and is based on present actual cost of such work, the former estimate being based on original cost. The total renewals under the estimate lam now giving would come to £145,760, as against my first estimate of £153,950. Adding to that the £60,000 for track-surfacing, which I have already mentioned, makes a total of £205,760 ; and the actual expenditure is £157,000. That would bring down the difference between the actual expenditure and my estimate from £56,000 to £48,000. 1033. Taking your estimate of the actual wear and tear on the permanent way to be correct, the difference between £205,760 and the annual expenditure (which was £157,000 last year) —£48,700 — should be debited to renewal fund? —Tes. 1634. Or about l-l per cent, of the capital cost of the railways, exclusive of the rolling-stock? — Yes. 1635. "When you speak of replacing 43-ib. rails with 53-lb. rails, do you not know that the 43-ib. rails were originally intended by Mr. Carruthers for much lighter locomotives than are now run ?—Yes, 1 believe so. 1636. For what weight of engines were the 40-lb. rails originally intended? —Twenty tons, on six wheels, I believe. 1637. And what was the speed which it was intended should be obtained ? —I do not know that of my own knowledge : I have heard it stated at 16 miles an hour. 1638. "What is the weight of the engines now running over the 40-lb. rails?—Up to 32 tons; but then you must remember the weight is distributed on a greater number of wheels. 1639. What is the maximum weight per pair of wheels?—The engines which I believe it was intended to run on these lines as originally designed were six-wheel coupled, weighing, loaded, 21 tons, on six wheels, or 3J tons per wheel. The heaviest engine that now runs carries a weight of 4 tons on the driving-wheels. That is the American passenger-engine. 1640. What is the maximum speed at which the 32-ton engines have been allowed to run ? —The 32-ton engines have not been running at a great speed. They are the most recently-imported ones. The engines running the greatest speed are the American engines of 25 tons. They have been running up to 30 miles an hour. 1641. Is 25 tons the weight without the tender ?—Yes. 1642. What is the weight of the tender? —Fifteen tons, I think. 1643. That would be a total weight of 40 tons ; so that there have been 40-ton engines running ? —I do not know whether it is fair to compare them with the tender included, because the tender is not heavier than a loaded wagon. The distribution of weight on these engines is—4 tons on the drivingwheel—B tons on each pair of drivers —5 tons on the pair of training-wheels, and 4 tons on the pair of leading-wheels. 1644. Mr. GlarJc.'j You have estimated the life of the sleepers at present laid at seven years, and have referred to the jarrah sleepers as having a probable life of 25 years ? Can you compare the durability of puriri sleepers and jarrah sleepers ? —I am given to understand that puriri is as durable as jarrah, and otherwise as suitable. We require not only durability, but a certain degree of hardness and weight. They almost always go together.
Particulars cf Work. Estimated life. Quantity to be Annually Renewed. Rate of Cost of Work. Estimated Average Annual Cost of Renewals. Bridges and culverts Fencing Permanent-way ironwork (763 miles existing) ,, sleepers „ ,, Labour, relaying Stations and buildings years. 14. 7 U Miles. 55 109 55 Per Mile. £800 £400 £110 £ 22,757 11,353 44,000 43,600 6,050 18,000 Total estimated average annual renewals ... £145,700
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1645. Mr. Wright.] Which class of sleepers have you found the least durable? —The Oregon. We have also what is called iu this colony California!! redwood; but neither is very durable. We have found the real Oregon pine the least durable. 1646. Can you say what has been the result of using the light redwood imported from California P—That has also proved a failure. The sleepers are too light and too soft. They have not actually rotted yet, but the wear and tear of the traffic drives the rail into the sleeper. The rail chafes the wood away. The rails are imbedded in the sleeper as much as three-quarters of an inch, and when the spike is driven home the fastening still remains loose. 1647. Ara not some of these sleepers so soft as to exhibit the ballast adhering like barnacles on the lower side?—Tes ; that is the case both with the light redwood and the Oregon. One great expense now on the permanent way is the renewal of sleepers, principally on those lengths of the line which have been laid with Oregon. 1648. The Chairman.] At what do you estimate the durability of black-birch sleepers ?—They vary very much in quality. There are many different birches. The black birch we get from the South is, as a rule, very inferior timber. 1649. But what is the quality of the black birch found on the west coast of this Island ? —I believe that is generally better. The Kelson and Picton birch is good. The drawback to the use o£ birch is principally that, even when the timber is sound and durable, it is liable to crack in the sun unless it can be kept buried in ballast; and our lines have been, to a large extent, deficient in ballast, and consequently the sleepers are exposed, and the birch sleepers are very much injured by the action of the sun. 1650. Mr. GlarJc] Have you tried heart of kauri ? —We have small quantities of it, but we have not tried it to any great extent. That wood is rather soft. It has the same fault as totara. Totara is one of the most durable of New Zealand timbers; but the rails wear into it and the fastenings work loose, which is a serious defect where there are curves and heavy grades. Totara and kauri, I apprehend, could be advantageously used on the open plains, where there is good ballast and a straight road ; but for the sharp curves on the southern lines good black pine and heart of mated are the best sleepers we can get in the South Island of New Zealand. When I speak of New Zealand timber, I mean the timber supplied to our market. 1651. I know that if proper steps are taken a supply of puriri could be got. It is only a question of timeP —I have heard of several difficulties with regard to puriri sleepers, one being that whe tenders were called for it was specified that they should be sawn. The parties who worked puriri forests could have supplied them if they could have been taken hewn. But subsequently I know that tenders were called for puriri sleepers either sawn or hewn, but it never resulted in sleepers being obtained. I do not know what the hitch was. 1652. Mr. Wright.] What is the difference in price between jarrah sleepers and black-pine sleepers ? —Black-pine sleepers rule at about 3s. 6d., and jarrah sleepers at 4s. Bd. But the prices vary a good deal. 1653. Looking to the relative value, do you consider jarrah sleepers more economical? —I do con- • sider jarrah more economical even than the best black pine. With the black pine, also, we have the liability of inspectors not being thoroughly up to the difference between matai and miro ; and a great deal of miro has passed muster on the railways for black pine. If black pine is specified, it is fair on the part of contractors to put it in, because I believe miro goes by that name ; but miro is worthless. 1654. Has the department considered the feasibility of creosoting any of the native timbers, such as the kauri ? —No steps have been taken to any definite purpose, to my knowledge. 1655. Do you not think that something might be done in that direction ? —J do, decidedly; but there is this to be borne in mind: that, with the class of rails and fastenings that we use—flat-bottomed rails, principally fastened with spikes—creosoting would lead to no great advantage. As a rule creosoting would enable us to use cheap timber that would otherwise be too perishable. It could be used with miro, or red pine—rimu—which would be made more serviceable; but these timbers would be too soft. Bed pine is altogether too soft. I speak from actual knowledge from having seen a short length of it on the Anderson's Bay line, near Dunedin, which has only been opened for traffic about two years. The sleepers on that line are greatly worn by the bedding of the rails into them. In order to utilize these soft timbers creosoted, we should require to use chairs. 1656. Or rails with a broader flange ?—Tes ; and some better fastening than spikes. The lateral vibration very readily drives the spike back into the timber unless it is sufficiently hard, especially where there are curves. 1656a. But you have experienced no difficulty in using the timber on the straight lines ?—I would not use rimu even creosoted: Ido not think it would be hard enough. I wish to hand in another table (No. 5) which gives the sectional expenditure for the whole financial period, and which gives more reliable averages than Table 1., the latter being for a limited period only. I also submit another table (No. 6), giving the classified expenditure for nine months, for comparison with the estimates given in Tables 111. and IV. They are as follows : — [See next page.] The Commission received a deputation, consisting of Messrs.T. W. Adams, James Gough, A. D. Mcllwraith, M. Crosbie, and others. Mr. T. W. Adams, settler, sworn and examined. 1657. The Chairman.] Would you explain what you wish to lay before the Commission ?—A public meeting was held at Greendale a fortnight ago, and this deputation was appointed to wait on the Commission to express their views as to the best way of opening up the country to the liakaia Gorge. We believe that the line should start from the main south line at the north bank of the Selwyn, following the road from the main south line along the north, bank of the Selwyn through Greendale, crossing the Waiareka to the junction with Bealey's Track, and thence by the Hororata Valley in a direct line to the Eakaia Gorge. The Greendale District, we would point out, has been settled for the last fifteen or sixteen years. There are a large number s of people settled up the Selwyn Valley, and the land is very good. It has yielded, in some cases, as much as fifty-two bushels of wheat to the acre, 13—E. 3.
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Table V.—Statement of Sectional Expenditure, showing Cost of Maintenance of the Various Traffic Sections of Main Line and Branches, Amberley-Bluff Railway, from 1st July, 1879, to 31st March, 1880.
Table VI.—Statement of Actual Expenditure for Maintenance of Way and Works, Amberley-Kingston Railway, dining Financial Period 1st July, 1879, to 31st March, 1880 ; classified on various kinds of Works : 742½ Miles of Railway under Maintenance.
Mil. :age. Averai Four-week ge per :ly Period. Line of Railway. Expenditure for Ten Periods up to 31st March, 1880. Rate per Mile for Nine Months ended 31st March, 1880. Actual Mileage. Reduced Mileage. Expenditure. Rate per Mile. jhristchurch Section— Main Line—Amberley and Lyttelton to Tcrnuka Kangiora-0 xford Eyreton-Bennett's ... Hornby-Southbridge Bolleston-Springfield Mine ... Darfield-White Cliffs M. OH. 126 61 22 7 20 7 25 39 30 61 11 40 M. CH. 126 61 22 7 20 7 25 39 26 31 11 40 £ s. d. 28,632 2 0 1,548 11 7 2,032 7 7 2,395 15 6 1,528 12 6 755 12 8 £ 2,863 154 203 240 153 76 £ 22-54 7 1015 9 60 5-88 6-33 £. 225-45 70-18 101-60 95-84 58-81 63 Totals 236 55 232 25 36,888 1 10 3,689 35-90 159 )amaru Section— Main Line—Ternuka-Oamaru „ Oamaru-Palmerston Washdyke Junction-Albury ... Waimate Junction-Waimate... Pukeri Junction-Duntroon Waiareka Junction-Ngapara,.. Oamaru Breakwater Shag Point Branch ... 63 40 37 40 25 54 4 46 21 33 14 77 0 64 1 67 63 40 37 40 25 54 4 46 21 33 14 77 0 64 1 50 8,355 9 1 11,135 6 5 1,781 18 4 295 19 11 1,414 1 11 2,063 11 8 102 7 9 219 13 6 836 1,114 178 29 142 206 10 22 1306 29-32 6-84 5-80 676 1373 10 11 130-55 293-03 6854 59-20 6733 137-80 102 110 Totals 170 21 170 4 25,371 8 7 2,537 14-92 149-24 Dunedin Section— Main Line —Palmerston-Dunedin Duncdin-Clinton G-lendermid-Port Chalmers ... Walton Park Branch Mosgiel-Outram Lawrence Branch ... 40 43 73 18 1 9 2 47 9 3 22 0 40 43 73 18 1 9 2 38 9 3 22 0 h I Not classified 1880. under sec tions prio r to March 6, i Totals 148 40 148 31 37,654 18 2 3,765 25-44 2536 invercargill Section— Main Line—Clinton-Invereargill „ Invercargill-Bluff Invercargill-Kingston Makarewa-Biverton Aparima Junction-Otautau ... 65 43 17 0 87 16 17 45 11 35 65 43 17 0 87 16 17 45 4 36 1 I Jfot classified 1880. under sec tious prio1 \i to March 6, Totals 198 59 191 60 18,348 1 10 1,835 9-56 9556 Grand totals 754 15 742 40 118,262 10 5 11,826 15-92 15927
Particulars of WoA. Expenditure. Proportion of each Kates per Mile Item to the Whole. of Baihvay. Supervision lepairs of track (surfacing) Ballasting Sidings and turntables trading S'ew permanent-way materials loads and station approaches Bridges and culverts ?ences, cattle-stops, and gates Signals (semaphore) >anes and weighbridges Pumping apparatus Celcgraph Stations and buildings Pools and implements tVorksliop commission £ s. d. 4,446 8 7 50,982 10 0 7,857 18 9 992 1 0 4,475 3 1 13,293 19 5 941 17 0 6,929 14 8 2,205 1 0 244 6 6 89 3 9 1,018 4 0 19 6 1 3,193 18 11 2,196 13 2 460 13 3 Per cent. 376 43-11 6-65 •84 378 11-25 •79 5-86 1-86 ■20 •07 •86 •02 2-70 1-86 •39 £ 6-0 687 106 12 60 179 1-4 9-3 30 03 01 1-4 48 30 06 Total maintenance, exclusive of casualties and additions and alterations £99,346 19 2 8,611 18 1 10,303 13 2 84-00 7-28 8-72 £1338 11-6 13-9 Casualties Idditions and alterations ... Q-rand total £118,262 10 5 100-00 £159-3
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and in several instances forty bushels; and fifty bushels of oats. It is more a wheat district than an oat district. It is in almost a direct line to the Eakaia Gorge, and a railway by this route would go the whole distance through a settled district. For many years before the White Cliffs Bailway was made, the mail was carried by this particular track. We believe the proposed railway would do better on that side of the river than on the other, for people always go towards Christchurch, because they save mileage. If the railway goes on the other side of the river, those on our side will only take advantags of it on special occasions, because they would be going away from town. In carrying grain, all those who could make two journeys a day would take advantage of the railway. 1658. Mr. Wright.'] Do the settlers in G-reendale District cart their produce at present to the main, line or the branch line ? —-All the settlers in G-reendale proper cart to the main line. 1659. Mr. Clarke.'] What is the distance between the junction of the proposed line withßealey'a Track and the main line ?—Twelve miles. 1660. What is the distance from that point to the nearest station on the White Cliffs Branch?-— About 7 miles. 1661. The Chairman.] Can you tell us what it would be at the farthest point ? —About 12 miles. 1662. Mr. Wright.] Is there any difficulty in crossing the streams to the Horndon Junction?— No. The Hawkins is generally dry; it only runs after heavy rain. Waiareka Creek runs only five or six times a year. The Selwyn is generally dry here except at flood-times. The Hororata always runs. 1663. Would not the line serve the Greendale District if it were carried from Dunsandel up the south bank of the Selwyn, so as to avoid all the crossings of the rivers ?■ —It would be of comparatively little service to us; because we should have to cross the river, and wo should be going away from Christchurch. There are very few on the other side to whom it would be of any service. I think it is a line which no settler on that side of the river would recommend. It would be cheaper in the first instance, but it would be very little used. The settlers have all been on the north side for fifteen years. 1664. What quantity of produce do you send away from Greendale District in the shape of grain ? —There is a very large quantity. 1665. How many acres are under crop in the district ?—lt is all under crop. This line would serve 3 or 5 miles each way in length and breadth. It would be of practical service to all those up the valley of the river, and that is all good land. The settlers on the other side of the Selwyn would not think it any hardship to cross the river, as they would be nearing Christchurch. 1666. Do you thiink it would serve the district about the Eakaia Gorge and beyond equally well or better?—lt would serve that district better. It is a more direct route. It could scarcely be better adapted for the Gorge. It is all easy country. The other line crosses the water very often, whereas the line we propose goes with the water. 1667. The Chairman.] Is the country through which your proposed line would pass entirely agricultural, or have you minerals? —It will tap minerals at the head—the Malvern Hills. The people we represent are all agriculturists. We say that there is no occasion whatever for the central line, . since there is a line on the other side of the Eakaia—the Methven line—which would cut off all supplies from the central line; and if a line is put up from the Selwyn station the whole country will be served. Another advantage is, that this is in a direct line with the Ellesmere District, which is a thickly-populated district, and we believe that ultimately the line may be continued. It would be the most direct route to carry coal from the Malvern Hills to the Southbridge line. 1668. Colonel Pearce.] Is the district you refer to well supplied with metalled roads ?—Pretty well supplied with metalled roads to the main lino. 1669. You are aware that the Methven line is a private line under the District Eailways Act ?— Tes ; if not already taken over. 1670. Has any effort been made to construct a private line in the direction you propose ?— I think not. It has been spoken of, but no organized effort was made. Of course, this line which was advertised from Coalgate to Hororata threw us off that to some extent. 1671. Mr. Reid.] Are there any engineering difficulties in the way? —None, save the bridging of the rivers. It is perfectly level country, with a very considerable fall from the hills with the river. Mr. James GotraH, farmer, sworn and examined. 1672. The Chairman^] Can you give the Commission any information on this subject ?—There are two objects to be gained by coming up to the junction of the Bealey Eoad. It brings it nearer— within 7 miles of the upper line. But if it is found after surveying that the line could cross the river easier lower down, below the Forks, I think it would serve both sides of the river rather better. We should be served; and the upper line serves the people a certain distance up the Selwyn Valley. Perhaps the people on the other side are not so well served. 1672a. Mr. Wright.] In fact, you want the railway to come to Greendale?—l think if it comes by the Waiareka Crossing it will serve Greendale. The river is much more difficult to cross lower down. We are quite willing to adopt the best route the surveyors can find. 1673. Mr. Clark.] You refer to the country where the proposed line crosses the Eakaia and the Selwyn as not being settled ?—The most of the land is purchased. 1674. Is it suitable for settlement?—lt is not suitable for settlement in small blocks; but it is suitable in large blocks. It.is comparatively poor shingly land, and it would grow a good crop once in four years. As you go higher the land is more productive. The upper end is fairly served already. 1675. Suppose the line were run up from Dunsandel, and you had a cart-bridge across the Selwyn, could you not utilize the line from Dunsandel to Eakaia Gorge ? —lt would be of very little use. Mr. A. D. Mcllweaith, manager for Mr. S. Bealey, sworn and examined. 1676. The Chairman.] Can you give the Commission any information on this subject ?—ln the Greendale District there are about 5,000 acres, the greater part of it agricultural land. About 2,000 acres have been cultivated, and the grain, for the most part, has been taken to Dunsandel down .the
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south bank of the river. The wool that I have had to take from what used to be a run of 40,000 acres I have sent to Coalgate rather than drag it across the river-beds. To Coalgate it is a distance of 7 miles up hill, and it gives about 10 miles more railway-carriage than from Darfield. 1677. Mr. Clark,] The construction of this line would not increase the amount of traffic upon the main line : that is to say, as far as serving the Greendale District is concerned, it would lessen the cost of carriage to the farmers, but it would not increase the traffic on the main line ? —Only a portion of the land is under cultivation. If the line were carried through a great deal more of the land would be brought under cultivation. 1678. Does the distance which the produce has to be carried interfere with or lessen the amount of land that is brought under cultivation ?—Yes. A. great deal of the grain has been taken to Dunsandel, which is 14 miles off, and when you get beyond 10 miles from a railway I do not think it pays to grow wheat. Within 10 miles a dray can take a load and get back the same night. I have often known drays to start as early as they could in the morning, go down to Dunsandel, and stand perhaps for five hours before they could get unloaded. In that case it was 10 or 12 o'clock at night before they got back to their homes, 1679. Mr, Wright^ Would the wool from the Upper Eakaia Valley to the Gorge be all carried to this line which you now propose in preference to the White Cliffs branch?—Certainly, because the outlet is at Windwhistle for all the country in by Lake Coleridge. 1680. Mr. Clark.] Tour argument for this line, principally, is that a line carried to the Eakaia Gorge would increase largely the production of grain, and that the line you propose is the best line ? — Yes. I think it is most suitable for the largest population.
Cheistchukch, F.riday, 30th Apbil, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. E. C. J. Stevens, M.H.R., J. T. Fisher, M.H.E., J. T. Ford, "W. Langdown, E. Banks, and William Jones, waited upon the Commission. 1681. Mr. Sievens introduced the deputation and made the following statement: The deputation Lave waited upon you with reference to the Sumner Eailway. The view of the deputation is that it is of very great importance that, with as little delay as possible, communication hy rail between Christ, church and Sumner should be set on foot. The distance from Christchurch is only about 8 miles, and, from the manner in which it is proposed to construct the line, I believe that about 4f miles will be the total distance, the object being to run along the closed line which formerly was opened to Ferrymead, and to construct the extension from that point to Sumner. The traffic at present carried on is by means of omnibuses and private vehicles ; and it is believed —and I think with very great reason —that a very large increase of traffic must come about in the event of railway communication being established in substitution for the present conveyances. I may point out that the feeling is general, I believe, that such communication between a populous city and its suburbs, with a population very largely and rapidly increasing, would from a sanitary point of view be very important. I feel sure that it would be very largely made use of by the inhabitants of Christclrarch and the surrounding neighbourhood if a ready and comparatively inexpensive means of communication with the seaside could be secured. The object, therefore, of the deputation is to invite the Commission to make such inquiries during their labours as may result in their being fully informed of the merits of this proposed undertaking. In order to facilitate the inquiry I may mention that the deputation have ascertained some facts with reference to the traffic at present going on. lam informed that two years ago the passenger traffic was estimated at between 40,000 and 50,000 a year ; that last year, on one line of coaches only, 30,000 passengers were carried between. Christchurch and Sumner direct along the Ferry Iload, which was, of course, throughout the whole distance from Christchurch, there being no break in the way. That line of coaches is only one of two, and therefore it is assumed, apparently with great show of reason, that the receipts could not be much less than £3,000 a year. On one line of coaches the receipts are from £1,400 to £1,800 a year, and on the other it is assumed that they would not be less than £1,500, the total receipts being something over £3,000 per annum. Taking into consideration the traffic by private conveyances and other means, and the stimulus which would be given to the traffic by means of improved communication, it would not be going too far to suppose that the traffic would be very nearly trebled. There is also in the neighbourhood a large quantity of atone, which is very much wanted for public purposes, as any one can testify who is familiar with the difficulty there is in getting stone, at a moderate price for the public need. There is also a good expectation of a very large brick trade being established, there being material along the line proposed which is considered peculiarly suitable for the purposes of briclunaking. The cost of constructing the proposed line will not exceed £18,000. An estimate has been given of £15,000; but the maximum cost is supposed to be £18,000, according to the information supplied to mo. lam informed that a firm of contractors have offered to construct the line for £18,000, and to take debentures up to twothirds of the amount supposing a company undertake the construction of the line. The profits on such an undertaking have been by some estimated at 20 per cent. ; but on these points the Commission will have no difficulty in satisfying themselves by reference to the opinion of experts. The particiilar questions that the deputation would invite the Commission to satisfy themselves upon are pretty much as follows: The general question of whether, on public grounds, the construction of the line to Sumner would be advisable —as to the traffic receipts which are likely to accrue in the event of such a line being constructed, and the cost of working the line, including depreciation, the necessary maintenance of rolling-stock, and so forth, and other charges which are allowed for. It is important that the Commission, in making inquin', should bear in mind that the Government already possess a road to Ferrymead, which is practically something like half the distance, and that probably the Government would derive considerable advantage from extending the line. They would be certain to derive considerable railway revenue in favour of the Lyttelton line from this proposed extension to Sumner. The Commission will be able, no doubt, to satisfy themselves without difficulty that there is no seaside available to Christchurch
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without going a considerable distance. By going to New Brighton the distance is very considerable, and there is no railway communication there. Of course, Lyttelton is hardly the kind of place which would be regarded as a watering-place in the ordinary acceptation of the term. It is a place more of business, and would not be regarded as a watering-place for the inhabitants of any large city to resort to for enjoyment and recreation. Ido not know that there are any other points which I need invite you to consider at present. Before asking you to examine the plan produced, I would say that Mr. Back, General Manager of Railways, is famiiar with the whole subject, and will be able to give the Commission full information as to working expenses, maintenance, &c. The deputation do not think it necessary to bring before the Commission any statistics, considering that there are very good official sources from which the Commission can obtain them. We content ourselves by stating that the passenger traffic which I have mentioned as now existing is au actual certainty. I understand that the survey of the line was prepared two years ago by the Public Works Department. 1682. Mr. Wright!] The construction of this length of 4| miles by the Government would bring traffic over some 8 or 9 miles? —Yes. 1683. Mr. Clark] Does the estimate of £18,000 include the cost of rolling-stock ?—No ;it only includes the permanent way. 1684. Mr. JReid.] Would the contractors take up two-thirds of the debentures at par ? —As far as lam informed, they would. Other members of the deputation have instructed me that such is the case—that the firm of contractors are prepared to construct the line on the terms stated. 1685. Mr. Wisher: The information laid before the Commission by the member for Christchurch City, fully bears out the remarks made by the Minister for Public "Works, Mr. Oliver, in the House, in reply to a question I put to him last session with regard to the cost of construction and the payable prospect of the line. lie said that " information in the possession of the Government led them to believe that the line would pay remarkably well. It was a very short line, and he was told that 20 per cent, profit might be expected from it. This being the case, they would give it their favourable consideration." 1686. The Chairman (to Mr. Stevens).] The evidence the deputation propose to offer is that of Mr. Back ?—We think it would be more convenient, and save the Commission much trouble and time, if we asked them to examine some one officially acquainted with this subject, and whose opinion would be of unquestionable value, in preference to bringing forward evidence of our own, 1687. Mr. Wright^] You stated that the total distance would be.4| miles? —Pour and a quarter miles is the distance from Ferrymead. 1688. You appear to overlook the fact that 1 mile of that distance is already made. The total distance is 3 miles 15| chains ?—Yes. Mr. Feedeuick Back, General Manager, Christchurch Railways, sworn and examined. 1659. The Chairman.] Have you given any attention to the question of the construction of a railway to Sumner? —Yes, I have given some considerable attention to it. 1690. What is the length of the line that would have to be constructed ? —lf it were made by the Government, the line is complete for 3 miles and 32 chains from Christchurch. It there branches off, and the formation is made for 69 chains. Ido not know how far it is proposed to bring the line into Sumner, but from there it would be, I dare say, about 4 miles. 1691. Has an estimate of the cost been made by the department?—A survey has been made, but I have not heard of an estimate of the cost having been made. 1692. Can you give approximately an estimate of the probable cost ?—No; but I do not know that you can make it for much under from £5,000 to £6,000 per mile. I was staying in Sumner fora short time, and it occurred to me that the traffic on the road was sufficient to warrant a railway. At some trouble I made an estimate of the traffic, and, from the information I obtained from the proprietors of /the omnibuses and from livery stable-keepers, I estimated that there was a traffic of 60,000 passengers a year. There is no other outlet from Christchurch where people can get to the seaside, unless it is at New Brighton. On holidays and Sundays the beach at Sumner is covered with people, and I have no doubt that if cheap means of transit were provided there would be a very large traffic. As it is, on fine Sundays we frequently bring twenty long carriages of passengers from Lyttelton. These people have nowhere to go but stroll about the hills, whereas at Sumner they would have an open beach and a chance of a dip in the sea. The cost of working the line for traffic and locomotive department would be from £1,150 to £1,200 a year, with trains for Sundays. The average cost for maintenance of the line should not exceed £100 per mile, or from £500 to £600 per annum. 1693. Can you give some approximate estimate of the probable receipts ?—I think you would require to have a special fare —say of Is. per head. Sixty thousand people at Is. each would be £3,000, but I think the passenger traffic would soon be doubled. It would be very much increased, at any rate, if cheap and easy access was obtainable to Sumner. 1694. Are you aware of any other source of traffic besides the passenger traffic that would be likely to be considerable ?■—T think there would be a considerable extension of buildings, and the materials would have to be taken down there, and extra settlement would necessarily produce increased goods traffic. There is a very good description of stone there for protective works or for road-metal, and, the distance from town being short, I have no doubt that a trade could be created. 1695. Mr. ClarJc] Is there sufficient room at Sumner for any considerable number of buildings ? —■ Yes. I do not know the exact acreage, but there is room for a good many more houses than now exist. I might mention that one gentleman, who owns considerable property there, says that, if a railway were made and brought down to the flat, he would give the land required for station purposes. 1696. Mr. Wright.] Have you heard the Engineer in charge of constructed railways express any opinion as to the advantages of making this line in the way of furnishing a good supply of stone for protective works ?—Yes. I asked him the question whether it would not be possible to utilize this stone, and he said, if the Government could procure a quarry there, the stone would be as good as, or better than, the stone from Lyttelton, and could be procured cheaper.
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1697. Can you say what has been paid for the stone from Lyttelton ?—I cannot speak with any1 degree of certainty, but I should think from £2,000 to £3,000 a year. That includes quarrying and placing the material in the trucks. 1698. Mr. Wright.] Where do the Government take that stone to ?—They put it in at the Eakaia, Rangilata, and Temuka Rivers for protective purposes, as well as at Timaru and at Waimakariri on the north line. 1699. From your knowledge of the locality, do you not think that there is a better quarry for stone on the route of this Sumner line than there is in Lyttelton ? —Tes, I think so. I think it would be very accessible ; and a quarry in Lyttelton is always an objection, being in the way of other traffic. 1700. Colonel Pearce.] Are there any heavy cuttings on the line ? —I think the greater portion of the line can be made across the mud-flat. 1701. I asked the question because the estimate of £5,000 or £6,000 a mile seems a small one ?— lam not an engineer. This is an engineering question, and I cannot give a definite answer to it. I have seen other somewhat similar lines in the colony in course of construction, and I based my answer upon that. There would be a large amount of embankment necessary to be made. 1702. Is there more than one bridge to construct ?—No. I do not think there are anything but culverts to construct —outlets for the rain-water from the watershed. Mr. J. T. Foed sworn and examined. 1703. The Chairman.'] You are well acquainted with the Sumner District ?—I am; I have known it for a great many years. 1704. Can you state what quantity of land there is still available for building purposes ?—I should think there are at least 250 acres of fiat land still available and unbuilt upon. 1705. Colonel Pearce.] Is it all in private hands ? —lt is. 1706. In small sections ? —A great portion of it is in small sections. There were originally about 300 acres of flat land there. One section of 100 acres has been cut up into quarter-acre sections—that is the 100 acres near the sea. Behind that section another property has been divided into similar-sized sections, and I believe that property is about 150 acres in extent. Portions of that property have been sold. Behind that again there is still more flat land. Beyond the flat land there is also a considerable quantity of hilly land, which has been bought with a view to being built upon at a future day, when the flat land shall be taken up. 1707. Mr. Wright."] Would there be any large increase in the population at Sumner, consequent on the construction of this line? —I believe there would be a very large increase of population. I have met a great number of people for years past who would very willingly live at Sumner altogether, or during a portion of the vear, but for the inconvenience of the present mode of conveyance. It takes over an hour to make the journey, and that a very tedious one, and, besides that, people cannot at any time be certain that there will be room in the coaches. 1708. Colonel Pearce.] Is there a daily coach at present ?— There are two lines of coaches, and at least two coaches in connection with each line running daily, and sometimes more. 1709. The Chairman.] Can you say what is the fare by the coaches ? —Eighteenpence a single fare and 2s. 6d. return. 1710. Mr. Wright.] Is there a large number of private vehicles travelling to Sumner during the week, and on Sundays especially? —A great number. During the holidays the road becomes positively dangerous in many places owing to the amount of traffic upon it. 1711. The Chairman.] Are you aware whether any laud would require to be purchased for this line ?—I believe that, taking the proposed line according to these plans, there is no land to be purchased except a verv small bit opposite the Shag Rock, in order to cut off an awkward bend in the line. 1712. Mr. Wright.] Do you not think the proprietor would be willing to give that piece of land? It is quite possible—l believe it is very likely he would. 1713. In any case, the price demanded would be small ?—Tes. 1714. Colonel Pearce.] Does the same answer apply to a site for a station ? —I believe it is proposed to reclaim land upon which to place a station—land inside the bar. 1715. Mr. Wright.] The line would run on a dead level from Ferrymead to Sumner?—l believe so. I have always understood that there are no engineering difficulties in the way whatever. The deputation withdrew. Mr. J. L. Wilson sworn and examined. 1716. The Chairman.] The Commission understand that you wish to make some statement in reference to railway charges ? —Tes. I have a large business in bringing road-metal on the line into town. There are two prices charged for haulage for public bodies. I want to lay before the Commission how difficult it is for me to work under the two charges, and what appears inconsistent in itself. For public roads the charge is Id. per ton per mile; and for bodies like the Drainage Board, Harbour Board, and other public bodies, the charge is 2d. per ton per mile. There is a difficulty in working under these two charges. 1717. Mr. Wright.] Can you say why there should be this difference in charge, and what led to it ? —No ; I can only surmise that the Act was passed by the Assembly out of consideration and sympathy for the Road Boards in respect to the formation of roads —that there would be a great quantity of metal used, and a great amount of traffic on the line by its consumption ; and therefore the price was lowered. The other public bodies are spending ratepayers' money, and I think they have been overlooked. Ido not see why the price should not be regulated for the benefit of the ratepayers. 1718. Mr. Wright.] If 2d. per ton is only a fair charge as against the City Council, the Drainage Board, and Harbour Board, the penny per ton must be a losing price to the Railway Department ? —Tes. 1719. Either the one charge is a loss or the other charge is excessive?—Yes.
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1720. The Chairman.] Do you say that the charge for haulage to Eoad Boards is provided for by Act ?—lt is one of the regulations made by the Railway Department. 1721. You think that this anomaly should be removed —that the charges should be equal ?—Yes. It is very unpleasant, because it creates suspicion against me as to giving correct returns, or it involves me in paying what I ought not to pay. Mr. Frederick Back further examined. 1722. The Chairman.'] It has been given in evidence before the Commission that there are two charges made for the carriage of road-metal by the railway, one charge of Id. per ton per mile being made to the Road Boards and County Councils, and another charge of double that amount being made to other public bodies. Can you state whether this is the case, and, if so, what is the ground for the arrangement ? —The rates for metal are 2d. per ton per mile, with a minimum of 2s. per ton ; but separate rates obtain for stone or metal used in the construction or maintenance of public roads or streets. In this case the rate is one-half. 1723. Is the minimum the same in both cases ? —The minimum is one-half also. 1724. Mr. Reid.] Does that minimum include the terminal charge?—There is no terminal charge. 1725. The Chairman.] "Would you be good enough to state what is the ground for this difference in charge ? —This rate, I can only say, was gazetted ; and when I discovered the lower rate, and that it did not pay, I represented that such was the case, and I was informed that it was desirable to carry stone for the construction and maintenance of roads at as low a rate as possible, as such roads acted as feeders to the railway. Under ordinary circumstances the rate at which we carry stone for roads does not pay us ; it is carried at a loss. I speak of the lower rate : that remark does not apply to the higher rate. I will show the reason. There is a pit within 6 miles of Christchurch, and we have to send empty wagons from Christchurch to this pit. IVhen the wagons arrive at the pit, according to our regulations the pit-owner is entitled to four hours for loading. At the expiration of the four hours we receive the wagons back loaded. They are carded, invoiced, placed in the trains, and conveyed to Christchurch. Four hours are allowed for discharging, and we have to collect the freight of ss. for each wagon. I might remark that there are certain circumstances where Id. per ton would pay for this class of traffic if such traffic could be procured as back-carriage, seeing that there is no expense in loading or unloading. 1726. Mr. Wright.] Is not the wear and tear on the trucks, and especially on the axles, very severe with this class of traffic, owing to the dust and grit ? —-Yes ; no doubt the dust and grit causes extra wear to the axles. 1727. And the wear and tear is greater than it would be in carrying an equal number of tons of grain, for instance ? —Yes. 1728. Mr. Reid.] This, 1 presume, is a class of traffic that you would not recommend to be carried on at these charges ? —No, certainly not. 1729. 3£r.T¥right.] Either for public bodies or private individuals ?—No. 1730. Mr. Reid.] Do you consider that, speaking generally, 2d. per ton is not an excessive charge ? —Speaking generally, I do not think that it is too high, for this reason: that the pits are at short distances, and more than a full day is occupied by the wagons. 1731. Mr. Wright.] Can you give the Commission any information in the direction of greater economy in the working of the railways, especially on your own section ? —I think, in the first place, with regard to expenditure, that the business might be concentrated to a greater extent. My section extends 243 miles. There are 83 stations, 51 stationmasters, and 54 private sidings on that length. Were there a less number of stations the expense would be reduced. I think the best means of accomplishing more profitable results of working would be the alteration of the rates. Ido not think that it is possible, or ever will be possible, to make our railways pay without differential rates. There are many cases where our rates, in one instance and not another, are too high, and there are also many eases where our rates are so high as to absolutely preclude traffic. Under some circumstances the rates will pay, whilst in others there will be a loss. I think every description of free work, or work which is only partly paid for, should be put a stop to at once. 1 would enumerate free passes of all sorts, with the exception of a limited number to those to whom the Government might choose to issue toem. I may especially mention free passes to all telegraph officers, public works officers, post-office officials, captains of merchant vessels, and newspaper reporters. To enable the Traffic Managers to show by their returnsjwhat they are really earning, there should be an abolition of all free carriage. All work done by the railway should be shown. Public works materials, which are hauled at half-rates, should give credit to the department as at full rates. Our railways have not been looked upon from a commercial point of view at all, but as means for settling the land; and we have reduced rates for almost every description of industry and trade : agricultural machinery, implements, building materials, and everything which induces settlement on land have been carried at low rates. These rates should certainly be altered into paying rates. I might here observe, as instancing the justice of my remarks as to the abolition of all free traffic, that the Malvern Branch railway, by reductions in expenses, was brought down to some 72 per cent, during the dull season of the year. It is now working at over 80 per cent, in the busiest season of the year, the reason being that the department is carrying fifty tons of coal a day for locomotive purposes, for which it gets no credit. That is money-value to the extent of £4,600 per annum. The first and principal question to consider in the financial success of railways is the levying of rates. It is utterly impossible to make a uniform rate which will suit a trade in all districts, and not make a loss in one or other of those districts. It has hitherto been the custom, when it has been demonstrated that in any particular district the rate was too high to catch a particular class of traffic in that district, to lower the rates all round ; although to bring the traffic to the line in the locality intended, it has not been necessary to lower the rates all over the colony. As instancing the value of a differential rate, I might mention that it was tried between Timaru and Christchurch for grain. We had a rate of 14s. per ton from Timaru to Lyttelton, and we carried the bulk of the grain which would otherwise have been shipped at Timaru. Certain gentlemen interested in this class of
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business in Timaru managed to get this special rate abolished. That year, to my knowledge, 27,000 tons of grain was shipped at Timaru. It was demonstrated that the railway was losing a large quantity of grain by its being shipped at Timaru, and the rates have now been lowered all over the colony. The farmer gets the advantage of the lower rates, and the railway gets the benefit of additional traffic where there is competition. In places where there are heavier gradients, and disadvantages which on the Canterbury Plains are not met with, I think the higher rates should have been retained. 1733. Mr. Wright.] You think the price charged should be proportionate to the cost of the service performed ?—Proportionate to the cost of the service performed, and governed by the circumstances under which the traffic could be carried. To give an example of my meaning in the latter case, I will say the conveying of a tou of merchandise from Christchurch to Dunedin costs £4 ss,—that is, without cartage terminal of Is. 3d. The steamer's freight for the same description of goods is 15s. per ton measurement; the additional charges to the 15s. would be railage from Christchurch to Lyttelton, os. 6d.; wharfage at Lyttelton, 2s. ; wharfage at Port Chalmers, Is.; and haulage to Dunedin, 4s :in all, 28s. A rate of from 355. to 40s. per ton would secure the whole traffic to the railway. Dunedin is a distance of 230 miles from Christchurch. The proportion of pence in 40s. as to 230 miles will show that the freight would pay. 1734. Mr. Wright.'] You consider that at least ljd. per ton would be necesssary to pay expenses?— Yes. 1735. Then, where timber is carried at the rate of Id. per ton, with the trucks running back empty, it is manifestly being carried at a loss ? —I should think so. 1 have no doubt about it. 1736. You are aware that that is the rate charged for carriage of timber for long distances ? —Yes. The reasons under which rates may from time to time be reduced to suit local traffic are governed by circumstances. Where a train-service has to be kept up between two given points, additional traffic may often be carried without material extra cost at a rate which would not pay where a train-service is specially required for it. 1737. The Chairman.'] But any such adaptation of rates to special circumstances is altogether inconsistent with a uniform rate for the whole colony ? —Yes. In New Zealand the Traffic Manager's duties are confined to carrying on the business within the boundaries of the schedule of rates placed in his hands to work by. In other countries one of the most important of the Traffic Manager's duties is to make traffic ; and where there is opposition, it is of vital importance to the success of the railway. And I may state that no trade ever passes a railway station without the Traffic Manager being informed of it; and he makes it his business to see the reason why it passes the railway, and to see whether the freight could not be secured. In England, where the business is very much larger, it is customary to have special rates for different people, such, rates never being made public. This, of course, would not suit where a line is worked under the Government; but I cannot see what is to prevent the introduction of differential rates. 1738. Mr. Wright.] From your evidence I gather that no sufficient consideration has been given to the question of adjusting the tariff to the cost of the service performed and to the special conditions obtaining in different localities ?—From the fact of our having been tied down to uniform rates, such. is the case. 1739. You are also of opinion that, as a rule, no traffic should be carried except at a fair profit to the department ?—Most undoubtedly. 1740. And that you should not perform gratuitous services for other departments of the Government ? —We can never show the actual cost or results of our working as long as we do so. 1741. I should like to hear your opinion as to the propriety of doing away with Saturday single tickets —that is to say, tickets issued on Saturdays at single rates ?—I think it is desirable to offer inducements to persons to travel on the railways, and these Saturday market tickets are in force in the Old Country. I consider that the present system is an erroneous one. I"or instance, a single ticket is taken out on Saturday to Dunedin. The purchaser retains that ticket by right, andean claim to return with it on the following Monday ; but there is nothing to prevent his giving away or selling that ticket to any one else who would be able to travel by it. 1742. The Chairman.] Is not that the case with return tickets generally ?—Yes, no doubt it is the case with return tickets; but there is this difference, that in the case of return tickets the return journey has been paid for at half-rates. 1743. I refer to the improper disposal of the tickets ?—lt is the case with return tickets : cases have come under my notice. 1744. That return tickets may equally be given away or sold ?—Yes. The Australian Colonies have introduced a system of single tickets only, and I believe the system works well. There are several reasons why it would be advantageous to introduce it in New Zealand. I see no reason why it should not be introduced, and the single fares reduced proportionately. I might state that the proportion of return tickets to single is about 30 per cent, only.- The Saturday return tickets could certainly be reduced to a reasonable limit of length, and should in most cases be made returnable on the same day. 1745. Mr. Wright.] The improper speculation in Saturday tickets would be checked if those tickets were charged even a small fraction above the single rates?—Yes. It would be possible to have Saturday tickets at a slightly-increased rate, which would to a great extent prevent fraud. 1746. What alteration would you recommend, apart from abolishing the return tickets altogether? Would you recommend that these Saturday tickets for long distances be issued at a rate and a fourth, or a rate and a third?—l should say that they should be issued at a small additional charge, and that the distance for which they are available should be curtailed. 1747. I should like you to inform the Commission whether, in your opinion, any economy could be effected in the Storekeeper's Department, which at present is understood to entail an excessive expenditure ? —I might say that the Stores Department is altogether outside of my control. It is a question for consideration whether one central store would not be sufficient to serve the whole of the lines from Imberley to the Bluff. £748. And from your experience you think that practicable ? —I do.
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1749. What is the present charge for carriage of grain from Timaru to Lyttelton ?—Fifteen shillings and sevenpence per ton. 1750. Is that rate sufficiently low to prevent competition by sea? —I think so. As a matter of fact lam certain that we have secured the bulk of the grain traffic by that rate. 1 have interviewed the principal buyers, who assured me that they will not ship a bag of grain at Timaru this year. 1751. Do you think the rates now charged, of 2d. per ton for the first 50 miles, and Id. per ton over 50 miles, is sufficient to leave a reasonable margin of profit on the traffic between Oamaru and Port Chalmers, over the heavy grades ? —The places mentioned being out of my district, I have not given the matter such attention as its importance merits before answering definitely such a question. On the level lines the rate undoubtedly pays. It will cost to work grain between Oamaru and Port Chalmers, I should sa} r, 30 per cent, more than on the level lines. 1752. When you say that the traffic undoubtedly pays on the level lines, are we to understand that there is a margin of 50 to 60 per cent, above working expenses ? —On the Christchurch Section, yes. 1753. Mr. Clark.] Making an allowance for the return trucks ? —Tes. I think you may say so. 1754. Mr. Wright.'] I want you to answer the question carefully, because, the grain season being the railway harvest, if your rates for carriage of grain are sufficiently remunerative, your working expenses should show a lower percentage during those months ? —The published returns are unreliable. We can convey forty wagons from Timaru to Christchurch, each carrying six tons of grain. The rate is 15s. 6d. per ton from Timaru to Lyttelton ; the cost of the train is less than ss. per mile: that gives us in round numbers £180 of freight, at a cost of less than £30. 1755. Does that cost apply to your own department? —It includes the actual cost of running the train-maintenance, locomotive, and traffic charges. 1756. Mr. Redd.] I would like to get some information about the working of these two lines—the line from Eangiora to Oxford, and the parallel line from Kaiapoi to Bennett's Junction. How many trains per day are run on each of these lines ? —Two each way on each branch. 1757. Which of the branches do you find to be the most profitable ?—The branch from Eangiora to Oxford. 1758. Then, is the traffic on the line from Kaiapoi to Bennett's Junction of a remunerative character ?—The line is working at a considerable loss, although it is made the main line, and traffic from Christchurch southward has been directed to be sent that way. 1759. Can you state the reason for directing traffic to be sent by that line in preference to the other ?—The order was issued, I think, before I took charge. 1760. Mr. Clark.] Is it shorter ?—Yes—l mile 20 chains. 1761. Do you refer to an order given by the consignor of the goods, or to an order issued from the department ?—lt was a departmental order. 1762. Mr. Reid.] Would it inconvenience any considerable number of the population in that neighbourhood if trains were run less frequently on this southern branch ?—lf trains are to be run at all, I should certainly not recommend their reduction. It would make very little difference in the cost, whether you run a train once a day or twice a day. The engine and men would be idle. 1763. To run them on alternate days ? —Even then it would not make much difference, as you would require to keep the same staff'. On a line like that from Kaiapoi to Bennett's Junction, the only additional expense of running a second train would be the wear and tear, which would be, say, from lOd. to Is. per mile. That would amply cover the cost. 1764. Have you any other branch lines in a similar position, so that one staff could work perhaps two or three of them ? —ISTo. The Kaiapoi branch is worked with only one guard, an engine-driver, fireman, and engine-cleaner. The station-master at Kaiapoi looks after the traffic arrangements. 1765. Do you consider that there is a prospect of the traffic on that line increasing ?—I cannot see where the increase is to come from. 1766. Then, in your opinion, it would be more profitable to the Q-overnment to discontinue running trains there altogether ?—I cannot see how, under existing circumstances, the line can be worked at a profit. 1767. In fact, you consider it a burden to a certain extent on the department ?—Tes, to a certain extent. 1768. Would the running of the trains on each of these lines on alternate days be sufficient to overtake the goods and passenger traffic ? —I think the traffic between Eangiora and Oxford warrants the running of a train every day. If one branch were not in existence the other branch would pay. 1769. Mr. Wright.] Considering that the Oxford and Eangiora branch is being worked at an absolute loss, do you not think it justifiable to reduce the trains to alternate days ? —lf the traffic that is now carried over the Kaiapoi branch were diverted/to the Eangiora branch, it would make the latter pay. 1770. But that would be at the expense of shutting up the Eyreton line altogether?—Tes. In point of fact, there is traffic for one line, and not for two. 1771. That being the case, would not the more prudent course be to give each line the benefit of a train on alternate days, reducing the working expenses nearly one-half ? —I think much public dissatisfaction would exist. Eangiora is the market town for the district between Eangiora and Oxford, and the passenger traffic on that branch is considerably more than on the other line. 1772. Mr. Reid.] Would not the running of a train four days in the week on the Eangiora line be sufficient for the requirements of the population, and two days a week on the Kaiapoi line, so as to dispense with one train-service ?—lt might be done, but much dissatisfaction would be caused by it. Practically no considerable saving would bo made unless you could reduce one train-service. 1773. Would not the plan suggested dispense with one train-service ? —lt would. 1774. Mr. Clark.] If it is considered desirable to close the Kaiapoi and Bennett's Junction line for general traffic, would it be practicable to leave the rails and work the line during the grain season ? —Tes that would be practicable. It might be worked as a horse-tramway. A deputation rejsresenting Austin, Kirk, and Co., Limited, and consisting of Messrs. John Jebson, John Austin, Henry Kirk, J. E. Hanson, William Prudhoe, Francis Hudson, and H. Stewart, waited upon the Commission, 14—E. 3.
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1775. Mr. Jebson made the following statement: We ask for a branch line or siding to be con' structed from the Sheffield Station to the Hawkins. It would be about 60 chains in length. There has been a colliery at work there for nearly eighteen years uninterruptedly. The reason coal has not been sent by railway recently is because of the difficulty of carting it so as to compete with those colliery proprietors who can put their coal into the railway trucks. In addition to the colliery works, which would be resumed if this branch line were constructed, the Company have been manufacturing drain-pipes and pottery-ware in very great variety. They have hitherto carried the raw material to manufacture these drain-pipes and pottery from Sheffield to Christchurch, and then they had to cart it from Cbristchurch to their works at St. Martin's, a distance of 3 miles. The Company have now bought the freehold of the property from which the clay is obtained, and propose to establish a manufactory, or to remove the present works from St. Martin's to Sheffield. The amount of traffic that the Company would put on to the line as soon as the siding or branch was constructed and their works completed, would not be less than 4,000 tons per annum of coal, manufactured articles, merchandise, and all other goods that would be required. The advantage in forming this siding, which would really be a continuation of the Oxford and Malvern line, would be that it would bring Rangiora within 33 miles of the coal mine. It is 39 miles distant from Christchurch, and 21 miles from Christchurch to Eangiora, The construction of the Oxford and Malvern line would enable us to send coal and manufactured articles to the whole of North Canterbury at a considerable reduction in train-mileage. At present, that portion of the province is comparatively closed from the use of this coal. 1776. Mr. Wright.'] Has any promise been made to you by a Minister for Public "Works that this branch should be constructed?—Yes ; Mr. Richardson, when Minister for Public Works, made such a promise. A sum of £300 was voted by the Provincial Council to make this branch line. 1777. Can you state the number of hands that would be employed at these pottery works ?—The number of men employed at the coal mine and pottery works would not be less than from eighty to a hundred. There would be at least that number of hands employed when the works were constructed. 1778. What would be the cost of this branch line ?• —I should say that £2,000 would be ample to construct the line and afford every accommodation. 1779. Do you knew what amount was expended on the branch line at Glentunnel ?—No, I do not. 1780. Can you say what amount lias been expended on the branch line at Springfield ?—No. There are no cuttings or embankments on the proposed line. It would cross the Hawkins River. 1781. llr. Beicl.] What is the quality of the coal in the mine ?—The last Government test shows that it is precisely the same description of coal as the Springfield coal. 1782. What is the width of the seam ? —There are two seams, each 2 feet in thickness. 1783. Have you opened these seams up to any extent ? What extent of drive have you got ?— We have been in about 22 chains in a southerly direction. 1784. Do you consider that there would be a large quantity of coal to be worked for many years? ■ —Tes; it would yield about 5,000 tons to the acre. 1785. At what cost per ton could you put it on the trucks, supposing you had this siding made ?— I think we should be able to put it on the trucks at 12s. per ton, and that price would pay. 1786. Would you be prepared to agree to supply the Government at that price in the event of the line being constructed ? —Yes. But not an unlimited quantity. If the Government should ask for a thousand tons in any given month, or two months, that would be almost an insuperable difficulty; but if the Government drew a reasonable quantity of forty or fifty tons a day, that could be supplied. 1787. Mr. Wright.'] The fireclay and the establishment of the pottery works I take to be the primary object of the Company ? —Yes, that is the primary object; but there is a very large quantity of clay consumed in the manufacture of drain-pipes and pottery. I think that between the Ist September and the end of February I sent about 1,400 tons of fireclay to Christchurch. 1788. Mr. Clark.] If the Government undertook to construct this siding, would the Company be prepared to pay the expense, or any portion of it? —Speaking for the members of the Company, they have not the slightest objection to be dealt with on the same principle that other firms have been dealt with under similar circumstances. 1789. That is scarcely an answer, because if sidings have been constructed before at the public expense, irregularly, it does not follow that the same thing ought to be done again ? —No ; but if the Government have given a siding which has cost, say for illustration, £5,000, and you ask another Company to put in a siding or branch at £5,000, and they find the money to do so, there is 10 per cent. interest on that amount —they are handicapped to that amount in competing with their neighbours. 1790. In the event of the Government doing this work would the Company be prepared to pay the expense or any portion of it ?—That would have to be a matter which the Government alone could decide. 1791. Mr. Wright. \ Would the Company be prepared to pay the difference in cost beyond what would be included in the term, an ordinary siding, which you are entitled to demand by giving the usual guarantee ? —Yes. The Company would agree to any reasonable arrangement. 1792. Colonel Pearce.] What does the Company expect to save in its haulage by having this line constructed ?—There are 60 chains to haul the goods over. 1793. What does it cost you to cart coals over these 60 chains?—There is not only the haulage, but there is the second handling to be considered, which, in dealing with the class of goods that we would make, would be especially objectionable. The deputation withdrew. Mr. Geoeoe Phipps Williams, M.1.C.E., sworn and examined. 1794. The Chairman.] You were recently District Engineer in charge of the Canterbury Public Works ?—Yes. 1795. For how many years did you hold that position ? —I was a Resident Engineer in the Public Works Department for seven years, but I was not in charge of the Canterbury District for the whole time. I was in Canterbury all the time. A great part of the time I was at Timaru, which was the centre of the South Canterbury District.
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1796. Mr. Wriglit.~\ Will you be good enough to inform the Commission what was the extent of the works in progress daring the time you had charge in Canterbury, and the percentage of cost in the shape of departmental supervision ? —I am not prepared with any reliable information about that without access to the records, but I think, roughly speaking, the percentage would not exceed one and a half. 1797. Do you know the number of officials at present employed in the Public Works Department, Canterbury ? —There are four or five Assistant Engineers, besides a great number of Inspectors. The gtaff is considerably larger than it was when I had charge of the district. 1798. Is there more work going on than when you had charge of the district ?—-I should say there is less. "When I had charge of the district we carried out, in addition to railway works, some heavy works of a character which are now undertaken by the counties. During the last year or so that I had charge of the district, we carried out the Malvern Waterworks, the Waimakariri Gorge Bridge, which was a very heavy work, and the Lyttelton Harbour works. 1799. When you speak of the Lyttelton Harbour works you allude to a time prior to the establishment of the Harbour Board?— Yes. The works were almost completed when handed over to the Lyttelton Harbour Board, with the exception of the alterations to the jetties. The Eangitata Eoad Bridge approaches, and several main roads, were also carried out during that time. 1800. As the staff' is now much larger than it was formerly, and the work in progress less, it is a fair inference that there are too many hands employed? —Well, I suppose there is want of management somewhere. 1801. Are the salaries higher than when you had charge?—l believe they have been increased as a rule. I know the present Engineer has a higher salary than I received. When I left the department I received a notice stating that the Government were not going to take a vote for the Christchurch office any longer, on account of the reductions that were to be made. 1802. So far from reductions having been made, the cost of the office has been increased ?— Tes. The expenses of the Engineer's removal to this place were very heavy. 1803. In what way were those expenses heavy ? —I have been told on good authority that it cost £80 to remove him. 1804. Would not that be in the way of travelling allowance ?—Tes. 1805. Or charges incident to his removal from Dunedin ?—Tes. I only mention it as occurring at a time when the Government were professing to exercise economy. I believe afterwards they did project further railway works, hut lam sure that the total amount of works is not greater. There are several small lengths of railway being carried out here and there throughout the province ; but neither Mr. Blair nor Mr. Austin had any idea of the country before these works were projected. 180G. Do you mean us to understand that Mr. Blair had no knowledge of the country through which he recommended the Canterbury Interior Main Line to be constructed ?—Tes. I am certain he had no knowledge of it. He had never been over it. He told me so himself; and I know as a fact that he had never been over the country. The only part he had been over was as far as the Eangitata Bridge from Timaru. He formerly had charge of that work under Mr. Paterson, who designed the bridge. I was Eesident Engineer at the time. Mr. Blair made a report in 1878, and the first I heard of the Canterbury Interior Main Line was through seeing his report in print. I was never consulted in any way with regard to it, although I knew the country intimately. I consider that the line, if constructed, would be a monstrous waste of money. 1807. On what ground do you come to that conclusion ?—The line would cross the whole watershed of the country. The crossing of these rivers has been amply proved to be a very expensive work. They give endless trouble, both in the way of construction and maintenance, and I think for that reason alone we should be well satisfied with one efficient line. The line into the interior would also require long and heavy grades, and several sharp curves at approaches to the bridges, especially at the Eakaia Gorge, where the line was proposed to go. Mr. Blair was not acquainted with the nature of the Eakaia Gorge. I asked him, "Are you aware that there is a drop of 600 feet in order to get down from the level plains over a succession of terraces ?" and I gathered from his reply that he was quite unaware of the fact. There was no preliminary survey whatever made of the line, excepting a portion from White Cliff's branch through the Hororata Valley. Of the authorized line from Oxford to Temuka, that was the only portion surveyed at that time. Ido not know what has been done since, but I have been told that a great deal of the line is still unsurveyed. I think the question of crossing the Eaugitata has never been fairly discussed by the Engineers in Charge. Mr. Carruthers condemned the Eangitata Bridge for railway purposes, confirming the report of Messrs. Bell and Tancred. Since that time the engines in use have been increased in weight, and lam very much of opinion that it will be found necessary to construct a new bridge for railway purposes. Besides the enormous expense of the line crossing the watershed, I think the line, if constructed, would simply compete for traffic with the existing main line, so that it would be very much better and cheaper, from that point of view, to make a double line of the existing line. 180S. Are you of opinion that the district between the present main line and the hills would be better served by a number of branch lines between the watercourses ? —Tes. I have always been of that opinion, and it always seemed to me a matter of common sense. A line running parallel with the watercourses can be constructed for £2,000 a mile, including everything, through most of the country met with. A line such as the Interior Main Line would cost from two to three times that amount per mile. There is another thing that seems to me very absurd. The line from Temuka runs at an acute angle with the existing line, and crosses the Temuka River twice unnecessarily. A straight line from Winchester to Hilton would be 7 miles in length. It would have been much more suitable to the district, and would have cost less to construct. I produce estimates, prepared for the Government in 1878, of a number of lines of railway, according to a Schedule of proposed branch lines attached to a Bill introduced into the House of Eepresentatives by Mr. Montgomery. The original estimates were forwarded to Wellington at the time. They are as follows : Orari to Hilton via Geraldine, and 5 miles up Kakahu Valley —total, 13 miles 50 chains, £45,500 ; White Cliffs to Eakaia Gorge via Coalgate and Hororata, 19 miles 32 chains, £91,000; White Cliffs to Eakaia Gorge via Hawkins, 22 miles, £95,000 ;
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Asliburton and Mount Somers Railway, 20 miles, £40,500; Winchester to Hilton, and 5 miles Up Kakahu Valley—total, 12 miles, £41,000; Albury to Fairlie Creek, 10 miles, £49,000; Waimate to Waihoa Valley, 10 miles, £47,000. . 1809. Is there any other information you could give us that would be ot any service t— ltiere is a question as to the double system of executing works on open lines—partly by the Public Works Department, and partly by the Constructed Eailways Department. 1 have had a good deal o£ experience of it, and I am certain that it is a mistake to have two departments working on the same line, whatever arrangement is made. Under the provincial system we used to have to carry out a great many works upon the railways, although their maintenance was nominally in the hands of the Provincial Government officers. This led to a great deal of unnecessary expense and correspondence, and was often dangerous to the public. 1810. Mr. Clark.'] You consider that the engineer in charge of the permanent way is the proper party to carry out alterations on the open, lines, whether chargeable to construction or maintenance ?— Yes—for this reason: that those who are actually in charge of the line are really the only judges as to what particular works are wanted, and also" as to how the traffic may be affected. On several occasions I have had to put in sidings and carry works out that could have been easily done by the maintenance men at less cost. A short time before I left the service this system was tried. I spoke very strongly about it to Mr. Blair. I found that I was practically called upon to sign vouchers lor works that I had never seen, and knew nothing about until the vouchers were presented to me. This ■was in order to carry out a system of charging new works on open lines to the construction account, the Public Works Department being supposed to be responsible for the construction vote. Mr. Allison Smith, locomotive engineer, sworn and examined. 1811. The Chairman.'] You are in charge of the railway locomotives and rolling-stock in this district ?—Yes. 1812. How far does your district extend ?—From Amberley to Palmerston. 1813 Mr. Wright.] The Commission wish to have your evidence as to the wear and tear of the rolling-stock on the Amberley and Bluff Railway, and especially as to the annual allowance for wear and tear ; also as to the cost of working the traffic over the different grades on that section of the hue ?— I have brought some statistics with me which I have compiled for the last nine months. I have never kept an account of the depreciation of stock. We do the repairs ; but we have no renewal fund. In England the stock is kept up to the mark without a renewal fund. The charges made are charges for renewals and repairs. The same thing would hold here. You can never tell when a wagon is worn out. 1814. The rolling-stock has a certain number of years within which it is absolutely worked out in spite of renewals ?— Molesworth gives ten years as the life of rolling-stock, but it does not absolutely wear out within that time. The rolling-stock includes everything except engines. 1815. It means that in ten years you would spend as much m repairs as would replace the roiling--1816. Can you say what proportion of the working expenses is absorbed by the rolling-stock— that is bv your department ?—I have kept no account of that. I can give you an exact account of the expenditure for the nine months. The expenditure is £48,343 17s. for the nine months. 1817 You are not in a position to say precisely what proportion of the receipts is absorbed by the locomotive department ?—No ; I have got absolutely nothing to do with receipts, and our figures are never published in the Gazette. , 1818. Can you give any information as to the cost of train-mileage ?—lt is about 9d. per mile. 1819. That is on the average of all the train-mileage?—Yes. ] 820. Can you give the average tonnage per train ?—lt varies with the different classes ot trains. 1821. Can you give the average train-weight ?—The average would not be more than 60 tons, including weight of rolling-stock and carriages. 1822. That is the general average ? —Yes. 1823. What is the maximum tonnage that your best engines are capable oi hauling on the plains f —The best engines we have got working on the plains will haul 363 tons. 1824. And what is the capacity of the lower class of engines on the same ground ?—About 197 1825. In the 363 tons and 197 tons respectively, do you include the weight of engine and tender ? —No ; that is exclusive of engine and tender. . 1826. What has been the average load that each engine of this class has been carrying ? —One hundred and twenty-one and a half tons for the heavier engines, and 58! tons for the lighter ones, the proportion being 28 per cent. 1827. Have these engines been running with light loads owing to insufficiency ot traltic, or owing to the fact that numbers of passenger trains have been running with very light loads ?—lt is due to both causes. There has been insufficient goods traffic, and the passenger trains have not been well patronized. . 1828. So that the engines have been working very much below their capacity .-'—les. 1829. Have you made any representation on this subject to the Commissioner of Eailways ?—The average load of each class of engines is reported every month, with full details of the cost of doing all the work. . . 1830. What I wish to know is, whether you made distinct representations to the Commissioner that the engines were put to unprofitable work in running empty trains ?— No, I did not. That is a well-known fact. There are certain time-tables given out to be worked, and we have to work them. In certain cases where a goods train has been running very light, I have represented the fact, and got the train discontinued. There has been a good deal of talk about the matter, and the Commissioner was well aware that the rolling-stock was not fully, and therefore was unprofitably, employed. At the same time, I should like to mention that the return I have furnished represents the last nine months, and that if we had been able to include in it the traffic of the grain season these averages could have been considerably increased.
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1831. Could not economy have been effected by laying up some of these engines, and making the others do a little more work ?—As far as the locomotive department is concerned, it would have resulted in economy to have had fewer engines at work ; but then it is a question whether they could knock the trains off and disappoint passengers, and in that way spoil their trade. 1832. It is a question whether a reduction in the number of trains would not have militated against the traffic ?—Yes. 1833. Do you not think that a very great reduction might have been made, more especially in the goods trains, by running them less frequently during the slack season of the year ? —¥e run very few goods trains during that season. 1834. You are probably aware, from the returns published, that the New Zealand railways are not very profitable : has any plan suggested itself to you by which a saving could be effected ?—ln a good many directions of a minor character, such as reducing train-mileage, providing suitable appliances, and other matters affecting the traffic department. But the principal way of making the railways pay would be by having differential rates. 1835. Proportionate to the cost of the service performed ?—ln proportion to the cost of taking the goods over different sections of the line. 1836. You are of opinion that in some instances the rates charged are not sufficient to give a profit to the department ?—I am not prepared to say that; but I know it costs us three times as much for locomotive.power to take goods from Oamaru to Palmerston as it does to take goods from Oamaru north. 1837. Have you any return showing the cost of haulage per mile on these sections ? —I produce a return giving that information. I also produce a number of returns, showing the work done and the cost of doing it.
Hokitika, Monday, 3rd Mat, 1880. The Commission received a deputation, consisting; of the Hon. Mr. Bonar, M.L.C. ; Mr. Eeid, M.H.E.; Mr. M. L. Jack, Mayor of Hokitika; Mr. Robinson; Mr. Malfroy; and Mr. J. S. Lang, Chairman of Westland County Council. 1838. Mr. Jack made the following statement: The people of the District of Westland have regarded it as a great grievance for many years that they should be isolated from all other parts of the colony. All are agreed that there is a large extent of country here which has not in any way been developed. The miners themselves say that up to the present they have just been scratching along the sea-beach. We are all agreed as to the necessity of constructing the proposed railway from the east coast to the west coast of this Island, and we regard it as an all-important work for the Middle Island. There is a large extent of auriferous land still to be developed on the West Coast; but the great expense at which we are supplied with provisions has been a great drawback to this district. The feeling entertained by the people of this district is very strong with respect to the neglect which has been shown in not providing them with railway communication. The people on this coast are convinced that the construction of a line from the East Coast to the West Coast would be the greatest possible boon to the whole of the Middle Island. We possess an excellent central position, and Sir John Coode says we have the means of making a splendid harbour here with comparatively no outlay at all. With a railway made, Hokitika would be the nearest point to Melbourne, and, the railway having an outlet somewhere at Ashburton, there is no doubt there would be a great passenger traffic between the east coast of this Island and Melbourne, passing through Hokitika. The Greymouth Railway we have always looked upon as a settled question. We never thought wo should be asked to go into that question now. The line is already partly made, and we can scarcely understand the reason of the present delay. 1839. The Hon. 31r. Bonar, M.L.C, made the following statement: I wish to make a few remarks before going on with the evidence, because I know that a very wrong impression exists throughout a great part of the colony with reference to the real condition of affairs on this Coast. So far from this district being a place which is worked out or falling off, I wish to show that the opposite is the case. I believe it has been currently stated and credited throughout the colony that our population has been leaving us to a great extent. No doubt, owing to the demand for labor caused by the public works being carried out in other parts of the colony, a certain proportion of our mining population was attracted to the East Coast and other places with a view to getting steady wages. It is also true that many persons were withdrawn from their ordinary mining pursuits to work on the few public works carried on on this Coast; and this has led to a considerable falling-off in the yield of gold—more particularly in 1870. The value of the gold exported in that year from Hokitika alone was reduced to £131,000; but all the succeeding years show a steady increase. In 1877 the value of our gold increased to £213,600 ; in 1878 it still further increased to £243,000 ; and in 1879 the actual export of gold in the year was only £216,812, but on the 2nd or 3rd of January this year there was a large shipment of 10,000 ounces, which ought properly to have been reckoned in the export of 1879, and this would bring it up to £226,000. All that gold was produced during the year 1879. It will be seen from these figures that the main product of the country, which is gold, has been steadily increasing; and even during the present year there are several directions in which new fields have been opened up, so that there is no prospect whatever of the yield of gold falling off. Mining communities are always looked upon as temporary and fleeting ; but such is not the case with a country like this, which has so much heavy bush-land. There is known auriferous country 150 miles south of Hokitika; and, that being the case, wo have all our future before us. This is not a mere estimate. We absolutely know the extent of the gold-bearing country, because all along the coast gold has been found ; and the only reason why it has not been profitably worked is owing to the difficulty of communication. We are exposed, on the one hand, to the difficulty of our bar-harbours, and, on the other hand, to the difficulties arising from rivers liable to sudden floods. We contend that, if we were placed in communication with the rest of the colony by means of railways, it would make a material difference to the future of this place, It would be the means of settling a large additional population on the West Coast, and in
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that way would furnish a very much larger market for the producing communities on the East Coast, because our population for many years must- be altogether a consuming population; hence the vast importance of our having railway communication established with the rest of the colony. The establishment of railway communication would be the means of largely benefiting the trade of New Zealand, by securing for it a large portion of the trade that now goes to other colonies. No doubt a considerable change has come over the system of importation during late years; because, instead of drawing the whole of our supplies on this Coast now from Melbourne, we only draw one-third from that source, and the remaining two-thirds from New Zealand; but, if railway communication were established, the probability is that we would draw the whole of our supplies from the various parts of the colony. A Eailway Committee was appointed here some time ago, and we went into a calculation of the probable actual receipts that would be derived from a railway to the East Coast. We went into the calculation with the honest intention of finding out absolutely for ourselves what the true state of things would be, and not with a view to make up a fictitious estimate. Probably you have had before you a report by Mr. Blair, as to the probable traffic that would exist on the line of railway from the "West Coast to the East Coast. In his calculation of the probable receipts there are a great many items entirely left out, and others we consider are to a very large extent under-estimated. We differ very much from the conclusions he arrived at. The two leading features in the proposal for the construction of the East and West Coast Railway are, that it would enable us to supply the East Coast with coal and timber, and in return we should draw our supplies of merchandise from the East Coast. As regards coal, I know that the statement made by the committee in the report which has been handed in to the Commission is quite in accordance with fact. I know from the highest authorities in Greymouth that the mines there are capable of producing 300,000 tons per annum, so that the probable traffic on that item is put down at 100,000 tons. Our reason for fixing upon that as the probable coal traffic is this. At the present time the export of coal from Greymouth is as nearly as possible 5,000 tons a month; not, as Mr. Blair says, 4,000 tons per annum. At present there is great difficulty in shipping the coal from Greymouth, as only a small class of vessels can enter the port, and that entails additional expense ; consequently we think 100,000 tons per annum a moderate estimate, and what would probably be carried by the railway. The estimated cost of carriage of coal by railway is 15s. per ton: of course we take the engineer's estimate as correct. The present price of coal at Greymouth is 12s. 6d. delivered on board ; but in the case of coal coming from Greymouth by railway, it would be taken direct from the mines, which would make a saving of 2s. 6d. per ton: so that if we fix 10s. per ton as the price at the pit-mouth, I am sure we shall be within the mark. It could be supplied at a great deal less, but we do not wish to over-state the case. Allowing 15s. per ton for carriage by rail, the coal could be supplied on the East Coast for 255. per ton. If the railway were made as proposed, we believe that the coal could be supplied at that price as far south as Timaru. I think no reasonable man can doubt that if the coal were supplied at 255. per ton on the East Coast, the consumption would be far more than doubled. I therefore think that our estimate of 100,000 tons per annum is a very moderate one. I have just had supplied to me figures showing the actual export of coal from Greymouth for thirteen weeks to be 13,856 tons ; so that my estimate is not far out. Then, with reference to the timber, the Railway Committee have only estimated it at a cuttingpower of twelve saw-mills. There are at present nine saw-mills established in Westland, and we have put it down at twelve saw-mills, which I think is a very moderate computation of the number likely to be established. Wo have estimated the cutting-power of the saw-mills at only 20,000 feet per week each, which is very much under the cutting-power of an ordinary saw-mill. In 1877, one sawmill, only working 230 days of eight hours, produced a weekly average of 35,7C0 feet. Had the mill been working the whole time, the average would have been 50,000 feet per week. With reference to the demand, I may say that our saw-mills are at the present moment unable to execute the orders they have got; because they are unable to get vessels at a freight which will allow them to export timber to the other side of the Island. The consequence is, that, instead of having a large population engaged in working saw-mills, we have them practically idle, simply for want of communication with the rest of the colony. All these things tell against the prosperity of the West Coast, and also against the interests of the whole colony. We have put down the rate of carriage by rail at ss. per 100 feet. We base that on the present cost of delivery in Christchurch. Looking over the rate of charges furnished by the Government, I find that the rate which would be charged for timber is only id. per 100 feet per mile. According to the length of the line between here and the East Coast, that would be 2s. ll|d. per 100 feet; so that the committee in their report have left a margin of 2s. The same remark applies to timber as to coal—namely, that the timber could be delivered at any point south of Ashburton or Timaru, and the cost of distribution from Christchurch to those places would be saved, and it would also lead to a much larger demand. We also think a. large trade would spring up in the supply of sleepers. There is a large quantity of timber in this district suitable for sleepers, but we are not able to make use of it on account of the difficulty of sending it away. The next item is general merchandise ; and the estimate of the committee is based upon the actual quantity which was imported up to the previous year. We look forward to the trade being considerably increased with other New Zealand ports by the construction of the railway, and we also look forward to additional population being located here, which would warrant us in increasing the estimate beyond the existing amount of goods received. We have taken the average scale-rate for the carriage of ordinary merchandise by railway, and fixed it at 30s. per ton; but a number of shipping charges and insurances would be saved in the conveyance of the goods by rail. If the railway would carry the goods at the same rate as they are carried at present by shipping, there is no doubt that the railway would carry the whole trade. We got returns with regard to the trade of Greymouth, and we find that they are practically the same as Hokitika—namely, an importation of 9,000 tons per annum, two-thirds being from ~New Zealand ports, and one-third from Melbourne. With reference to stock, we have estimated the importation to Westland at sixty head per week. That does not take into account the stock which is brought from between here and Greymouth; and, no doubt, if the railway were made all the stock that comes here from other places would come by rail. We have put down 10s. per head as a fair price for the conveyance of stock. We have put down the passenger traffic at 150 per week
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each way. "We know that on the establishment of railway communication people travel much more than they did before. The expense by rail between the East and West Coast would not exceed 80s., whereas the present charge is £5 by coach, and 30s. for expenses on the road. There is also this to be considered : that we are now looking at things simply as they are at present. A fresh discovery of gold at any time would lead to the passenger traffic being increased to an indefinite extent. That gives a gross total revenue of £163,000. The only other point I wish to refer to is the working expenses. Mr. Blair, in his report, puts down the working expenses at from G5 to 70 per cent., and the committee put them down at 75 per cent. "With reference to the profitable character of mineral traffic on railways, we need only look at the Greymouth line, where we find that the percentage of working expenses on that short line is only 50 to 52 per cent. I imagine that the working expenses of a short line would be much greater in proportion than those of a long line. However, assuming the percentage of expenses to be 75 per cent., that would leave £42,000 of profit on the line, which is over 4 per cent, on the estimated cost of the work. That would leave a better return than the average of railways in New Zealand at the present time. I may also add that there are two items which the committee did not take into consideration. One is the present cost of carriage of mails, which would bring a revenue to the railway of £2,500 a year. Then there is the present expense of maintaining the Christchurch Road, which is about £7,000 a year. The other points are the collateral advantages which are enumerated, in the report of the committee ; and upon these we shall be able to give the Commission reliable information from the different departments. The area of land put down in the Committee's report is simply what we ascertained from the Crown Lands Office to be good open land within 3 miles of either side of the railway. We have calculated good timbered land to be worth £5 an acre. We have taken the opinions of experts on that point, and their opinion is, that land is fully worth that in the immediate proximity of a railway line. We value all land more than 3 miles away from the railway at £3 per acre. This land would yield nearly the whole cost of the railway. The increased value of land with timber within 5 miles of the railway would give the Government £625,000, because it is nearly all new land. Besides, it would place a value upon a very much larger area of land in the immediate neighbourhood, which is now practically of only nominal value. The residents in this district feel that they have got a large country, capable of carrying a population ten or twenty times greater than it has at present. I may point out that, at the present time, in all the large centres of population a considerable number of unemployed are seeking work and cannot get it, whereas on this Coast we have not a single able-bodied man who is unable to get work. You cannot get able-bodied men to work for less than 10s. or 11s. a day, and there is not a man dependent upon the public for support. That shows conclusively that we have a very large field for surplus population, if they choose to come here. One drawback to this district is that men have been too well off, and, unless they make enough to enable them to have a pound or two in their pockets, they think they are badly used. As an instance I may mention that a party of men had a claim some time ago which gave each man £3 or £4 a week. They left the claim for South Africa, and, after being absent for two years, they absolutely came back again and took up the same ground. Notwithstanding that the ground would give £3 or £1 a week, no one took it up, and the • same men were able to go back to the claim they had left two years before. With regard to the construction of the Hokitika and Greymouth Railway, as of special value with a view to affording a second outlet for the coal from Greymouth, I may mention that we often have vessels come here, the masters of which desire to take away coal-freights; and they even go to the expense of clearing for the Grey in ballast, in order to load coal there. If they could load coal at Hokitika, there is no doubt there .vould be an increased consumption. The expense of bringing the coal a distance of 24 miles over level country would be merely nominal: it would be only 4s. a ton extra. One important feature is that certain sums of money have been spent and are about to be spent on improving the ports of Hokitika and Greymouth. The result of this work, as far as it has gone at present, has been to secure a material depth of water and a permanent channel, and, according to Sir John Coode's report, the probabilities are that, with the expenditure of a comparatively moderate sum of money, we shall have vessels coming into Hokitika drawing from 16 feet to 20 feet of water. That is a very important feature in connection with the export of coal. On the other hand, the establishment of railway communication between here and the Grey would also give us, in many cases, a further outlet for our timber. Mr. Robinson, cattle salesman, sworn and examined. 1840. The Chairman.'] Can you inform the Commission what quantity of stock comes from the East Coast by the present means of communication ? —The fat cattle number fifty or sixty weekly, and the sheep about a thousand a month, or a little more. lam speaking of fat stock only. Store cattle aud sheep also come, but I cannot give any approximate estimate of the number. In giving these figures I am not taking into account the stock that reaches the district from Grey Valley by the Ahaura Saddle. 1841. Can you state what is the present cost of driving cattle and sheep from the East Coast ?— About 10s. to 12s. for cattle, including the tolls. The expense would be ss. to 7s. exclusive of tolls. ITor driving sheep, the expense is about Is. a head. That does not take into account deterioration of condition or casualties ; it is simply the actual cost. 1842. Does the loss of weight cause very considerable depreciation?—Yes, both in the case of cattle and sheep. In the case of cattle there is a depreciation of one-tenth, and in that of sheep the game proportion. The depreciation varies greatly, according to the nature of the trip. 1843. Are you of opinion that, in the event of the railway being made, the whole, or the greater part, of the sheep and cattle imported into this district would come by rail? —I think they must. The saving in weight and condition alone would represent a very largo amount. 1844. Are the supplies of meat in this district drawn almost entirely from the East Coast ?—■ Chiefly. 1845. Is no considerable proportion of sheep and cattle reared within the district ?—No. Ouf pastoral country is bush country, and for fattening purposes is almost exhausted.
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1846. Mr. Wright.'] Does any portion of stock sent by the Ahaura Road find its way south of Grey mouth ? —Tes. 1847. Then the figures you have given as the average numbers coming across Arthur's Pass refer to the stock consumed in Hokitika and the southern portion of the district ?—Yes, and partly in Greymouth. The Greymouth supplies are also partly drawn from Wanganui by steamer. 1848. Can you say what has been the average price for fat cattle during the past twelve months ? —From 20s. to 355. per 1001b. 1849. What would that represent in pounds sterling?—Something like £9 10s. to £10 per head. 1850. Then your estimated saving of one-tenth in the transit by railway represents a mone}^-value of £1 per head in addition to the driving charges of ss. to 7a., and the toll of ss. ? —Yes. 1851. What is the average price of sheep ?—Twelve shillings to 15s. I would set down the loss of condition on sheejD at one-sixth or one-seventh. I believe that a 60-lb. or 70-lb. sheep leaving Canterbury would not weigh more than 50 Ib. on arrival here. 1852. That would be a loss in money of 2s. to 2s. 6d. per head ? —Yes. 1853. Mr. Clark.] Does that include loss by death ? —No. I am not taking into consideration loss by casualty at all. lam merely speaking of the depreciation of the condition of the stock. 1854. Mr. Wright.] Can you give any estimate of the number of stock raised locally ? I heard what you stated just now with regard to the raising of stock locally, but I was informed on a recent occasion that the sales of stock on the East Coast were very much affected by the large number of local stock which was rushed into the market on the West Coast. Can you say what percentage of stock is now raised on the West Coast? —1 do not think that one-fifth of the stock is raised on the West Coast. Perhaps 15 per cent, would be about it. 1855. From your knowledge of the country, can you say whether there is any great obstacle to that quantity being materially increased in the course of a few years ?—Possibly the number could be increased, but it would necessitate an expenditure of capital. The natural feed of the country, without being exhausted, is very much lessened. It consisted almost exclusively of bush-feed, and it does not renew itself so rapidly as grass. 1856. By the expenditure of capital, I presume you refer to the clearing of bush and the sowingdown of the land in grass ?—Yes. 1857. Mr. Clark.] After a time do you not expect that the whole traffic in fat stock, including cattle and sheep, would practically cease on this proposed line of railway, owing to the West Coast gradually supplying the whole amount required for local consumption ?—I think it would be looking a long way ahead to anticipate that. I think the population of the West Coast will increase in a greater ratio than the beef-producing powers of the country. 1858. The Chairman.'] Can you say what is the retail price of butchers' meat in Hokitika at present ?—I think it is about 6d. per pound. 1859. Both for beef and mutton? —Mutton is possibly less than that. 1860. Is that the price that generally rules here ?—Yes. Mr. Mueller, Chief Surveyor, Westlaud District, sworn and examined. 1861. The Chairman.] How long have you held your present position ? —About ten years. I hare been on the West Coast for fifteen years. 1862. Can you state what quantity of land for settlement would probably be opened up by a railway line between the East and West Coast ?—That would depend very much upon the route which would be selected ; but the laud which would be opened up by the route which is principally under consideration, and which Mr. Blair thought best, I have estimated on the report which has been published by the Railway League. That is the line from Arthur's Pass to Brunnerton, round the northern side of Lake Brunner. Regarding that line, the particulars given in the printed report of the Railway League are correct. They were verified at my office. I would wish to explain that the following passage in that report was added by the League : " to which a value not at present existing would immediately attach." I would like to point out that the 2,000,000 acres which were mentioned refer to the unsold lands in the district which, on the whole, will be made more valuable by the line being constructed ; but the other area given is immediately affected by the Hue under consideration. 1863. As regards the 65,000 acres of bush-land, is the whole of that, or nearly all of it, so far accessible from the railway that sidings or branch lines may be made without extraordinary expense ? —Yes, it is accessible without any great expense. In fact, most of it could be worked without any branch lines. 1864. Then, as regards the further area of 100,000 acres ?—That area would require branch lines, as it is a greater distance away. 1865. Could these brauch lines be made without any extraordinary expense ? —Yes; it is mostly level land—especially about Lake Brunner. • 1866. How is the estimate of £5 an acre arrived at? Is the value of the freehold land included in that ?—I suppose so. That is the value put upon it after the examination of a number of sawmillers. I believe the League came to the conclusion that £5 would be a fair price for the land immediately available, and £3 for land 3 miles distant from the railway line. I think that is a fair estimate. 1867. Then it is not calculated upon the principle of a royalty for the timber, but upon the absolute sale of the timber ?—Yes. 1868. Do you think the estimate is a reasonable one? —Yes, very reasonable. 1869. As regards the area of 2,600,000 acres, I understand that is the whole of the area outside the quantities mentioned before, and, while it may include a considerable quantity of good land, it also includes mountain-tops ? —Yes. 1870. Mr. Wright.] What are the boundaries of the 65,000 acres referred to in this report ?— The boundaries are within 3 miles of the line on either side wherever the 3 miles can be got. 1871. But along what portion of the line? Where does it begin?—lt would begin near the junction of the Otira and the Teremakau. The Upper Otira does not carry good timber. Then it goes across what is called the " old paddock," and round Lake Brunner on the north side, through J^olloy's, and down by the Arnold to Brunnerton.
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1872. Can you furnish any estimate of the extent of good land south of Hokitika —between Hokitika and Okarito —and also between here and Grey mouth ?—Yes : the following is the classification, &c.: Classification of land in the Provincial District of Westland on Ist May, 1880. —Part in Grey County —Reserves, 11,309 acres ; sold, 19,045 acres ; held under deferred payments, 754 acres; lakes, 9,491 acres ; unsold, 214,861 acres : total, 255,460 acres. Westland County—Eeserves, 82,477 acres ; sold, 33,959 acres; held under deferred payments, 942 acres; lakes, 25,507 acres; unsold, 2,647,415 acres : total, 2,790,300 acres. Total area provincial district, 3,045,760 acres. Seturn of lands in tlie Provincial District of Westland to Ist May, 1880.—Total area of district, 3,045,760 acres. Area of lands sold, 53,004 acres; lands held under deferred payments, 1,696 acres ; reserved lands, 93,786 acres ; unsold lands (consisting of forest land, 2,007,121 acres ; open land, 164,955 acres ; hilltops and scrub, 690,200 acres), 2,862,276 acres ; area lakes, 34,998 acres : total, 3,045,760 acres. Area of timber-land in the Provincial District of Weslland unsold and available. —Area available between Greymouth and Hokitika (i.e., between River Grey and River Hokitika), sea-coast and summit of main range, 460,000 acres ; area available between Hokitika and Okarito {i.e., between the Hokitika River and Okarito River), sea-coast and summit of main range, 420,700 acres ; between Okarito and south boundary of provincial district, sea-coast and east boundary of provincial district, 1,126,421 acres: total, 2,007,121 acres. 1873. I understand you have some knowledge of a new route between the East and West Coast by way of Whitcombe's Pass ?—Yes. In connection with the triangulation which has been carried across into Canterbury lately, one of the surveyors, Mr. Roberts, had occasion to ascend some of the summits of the Mount Butler Range and another range. When he came back he reported to me upon the feasibility of taking the railway up the Rakaia Valley, and that Whitcombe's Pass presented very favourable appearances for taking the railway across to the West Coast. In the early days Mr. Whitcombe and others came across that pass, and underwent a great many hardships. The report they gave concerning the difficulties of the route seems to have had the effect of putting that route out of consideration altogether when the railway question was mooted. When I received this information from Mr. Roberts, I considered it my duty to report it at once to Mr. McKerrow, leaving it to him to exercise his own judgment as to whether the information should be forwarded to the Minister for Public Works. The letter I sent to Mr. McKerrow was as follows : " Chief Surveyor's Office, Hokitika, 16th April, 1880. —Sir, —I have the honor to inform you that, in connection with the triangulation carried across the main range into Canterbury, Mr. Roberts had occasion to ascend the main spur of the Butler Range, which gave him a capital opportunity of examining the general character of the country thereabouts. The description he gave me on his return opened the question of railway communication between the East and West Coast, and, after examining old records re Whitcombe's Pass, and after carefully considering the matter, I have come to the conclusion that, though to some extent outside our department, the question of selecting the best possible line is of so great importance to the whole of JS Tew Zealand that I should draw your attention to the following facts, with the view, if you think fit, of bringing them under the notice of the Hon. the Minister for Public Works : In the case of all the passes already examined with the view to railway construction, the main difficulties, leaving distance out of the question, have been —(1) the necessity of constructing long tunnels, or" (2) the necessity of providing stationary engines to work steep gradients. Turning to Whitcombe's Pass, I find that from Windwhistlo House, Canterbury Plains, at or near which one of the authorized branch railways will pass, to the junction of the Whitcombe Pass Stream with the Rakaia, a distance of about 50 miles, the rise is only 1,426 feet. The gradient between these two points would be very easy ; and I understand that only ordinary engineering difficulties will be met with in taking a line up Rakaia Valley. Whitcombe's Pass Stream, according to Mr. Roberts, may be struck about 2 miles from its junction with the Rakaia by sidling along the western slopes of Ragged Range, and at a point where the mountains rise very abruptly and steeply towards tops of pass. The point thus reached would be probably at an elevation of 3,100 feet, seeing the altitude (mean of nine observations) of junction of Whitcombe's Pass Stream with the Rakaia is 2,958 feet (vide table of altitudes, page 59, Julius von ITaast's report on the headwaters of the River Rakaia, 1867). Mr. Roberts describes the saddle of Whitcombe's Pass as very narrow, and thinks that a tunnel of li miles at the utmost would break into Pass River, on the West Coast side of the main range. He could not state definitely that the drop on the Westland side was as favourable as on Canterbury side, and therefore his estimate of the length of the tunnel can be taken only as a rough guess; but, on turning to Professor von Haast's old reports, I find that the opinion ventured by Mr. Roberts is borne out to a very great extent. He even states (on page 16 of the report above referred to) that 'the descent [from Whitcombe's Pass] towards the West Coast is more rapid, particularly for the first 300 to 400 feet,' and again, on page 6S he speaks of ' the West Coast ranges forming a succession of gorges, with rapids and waterfalls.' In the same paper Professor von Haast refers to a report furnished to Government by Mr. Jacob Louper, who accompanied Mr. Whitcombe, Government surveyor, on his explorations, in which a ' vivid description of this portion of the route ' has been given. This report, as well as Mr. Whitcombe's report to Government, I have had no opportunity of examining. lam quite prepared to find that the difficulties they encountered were great; but then it must be borne in mind that sixteen years ago the explorer's work was much more formidable than it would be now, when settlements are established on the Westland side within, say, 20, and on the Canterbury side within 16, miles of the saddle, from whence supplies for the party can be obtained. It is also possible that the season of the year during which Mr. Whitcombe set out on that journey was unfavourable. At all events, now that the surveys of various other routes across the main range are in hand, or proposed to be taken in hand, by the Public Works Department, it seems to me that the facts above'stated warrant an expenditure for the examination of Whitcombe's Pass. I have personally no acquaintance with the Pass River, but my knowledge of the Upper Hokitika River and country thereabout leads me to believe that, provided a suitable place for a tunnel can bo found at an altitude of, say, 3,100 feet, a practicable way to ' sidle down' at a workable grade into the Hokitika Flat can be found. The expense of settling the main—the tunnel—question need not be great: careful aneroid work, based upon readings taken at short intervals at Hokitika and, say, Mr. N~eale's station in Rakaia Valley, where the altitudes are known, will f ully.answer the pur- " 15—E, 3.
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pose of preliminary investigation. The connection across saddle will be Bay trace or plain traverse (or either alternately, as circumstances dictate). In conclusion, I may note that this route, as sketched out, if found practicable (Windwhistle House to Hokitika by Whitcombe's Pass), will be about 25 miles shorter than any of the routes already explored and reported upon. If the survey as proposed is to be taken in hand, I would suggest also the examination of the pass from the Hokitika Eiver to the Bakaia by Matthias Branch, to which Professor von Haast refers in foot-note, page 180, of his ' Geology of tlie Provinces of Canterbury and Westland,' published last year. This pass, so that gentleman informed me, has since been crossed by two of the Canterbury runholders, whose names I have forgotten. The pass, it seems, is both low and easy of access ; but, owing to it being so very much nearer to the Hokitika and Kokatahi Plains, tie grades of descending into these would, I fear, be much steeper than those by Whitcombe's Pass. On the other hand, there is the possibility of finding a suitable place for a tunnel at a much lower elevation than that at Whitcombe's Pass, which might fully compensate for loss of distance, and leave the grades no worse than on the Whitcombe's Pass route. —1 have, &c, Gebhaed Mueller, Chief Surveyor. P.S. —Mouth of tunnel, Whitcombe's Pass, say 3,100 feet; West Coast Plain, where Hokitika Eiver enters, 462 —say 500 —feet; distance from mouth of tunnel to Hokitika Plain, say 23 miles : equal to a grade of 1 in 46, which, I believe, is not thought too heavy.—G. M." Mr. Jriiirs Malfhot, sawmiller, sworn and examined. 1874. The Chairman.] Where is your saw-mill situated ?—Within 2 miles of Hokitika. 1875. Is the timber cut at your mill consumed in the neighbourhood, or is it exported to any extent?' —Within the last few years we have been at a very great disadvantage with respect to shipping; but during 1876 and 1877, and even before 1874, we used to export from the mill. I have sent over a million and a half feet of timber to Lyttelton, Oamaru, and Timaru; but within the last few years we have been unable to got a vessel to take the timber, and we have had to decrease the sale this year. Even with that inconvenience we have shipped something like 400,500 feet. That is only from one mill. 1876. What quantities of timber have been exported from the other mills?—The Maori mill is very nearly equal to ours. I do not think there is a difference of 100,000 feet one way or the other. We have often had to refuse orders. We have been three weeks before we could get a vessel to carry an order from here to Lyttelton. A vessel came here, and we got her to take a cargo at 3s. 6d.; that, together with the expense from Lyttelton to Christchurch, would amount to 55., and the price at which we sell the timber here is 6s. 3d. to 6s. 6d.; 3s. 6d. is the price we usually pay to Lyttelton. 1877. In the event of the railway being constructed, do you think the production of timber in this district will be largely increased ? —Yes—in this way : At the present time a firm in Christchurch requires a small order of 5,000 up to 10,000 feet. They cannot get it, because, unless you have a full cargo, the vessel will not take it. We very often get an order for, say, 20,000 feet, but we cannot send it because the vessel requires more. If proper communication were opened we could fill such orders. 1878. What kind of timber have you been in the habit of exporting to the East Coast ? —Eed pine for the most part, and white pine sometimes ; but the latter is used only for flooring, and there is not so much required. The principal timber exported is red pine. Wo have exported some totara, but only in small quantities. 1879. Is there a large supply available within a reasonable distance for traffic? —There are some blocks of land for which, if the railway were through them, I would give £5 per acre. I have myself paid £4 per acre for the right to cat timber on some land. Any bush within 2or 2g miles of the railway would not require branch lines, because the timber is already conveyed by tram 2| miles. A greater distance than that would be too costly, because the tram would wear out; but anything within that distance would require no extra expense. 1880. Do you refer to wooden trams ?—Yes. We lay them down to work the bush, and we take them up again. 1881. Can you form any idea of the extent to which the demand for timber for export would be increased in the event of the railway being made? —It would bo hard to say exactly, but we have lost many orders for the want of means of sending timber within a limited time. 1882. Mr. Wright.] At what price do you sell timber at the mill ? —Six shillings and sixpence at the wharf. At the mill it would cost ss. Gd. We pay Is. for cartage. 1883. Then, with a railway charge of 55., you could supply it on the Canterbury Plains at about 10s. 6d. ? —We could supply it in Christchurch itself at that price if the railway charges were only ss. It costs as much as that now to send it by a vessel to Lyttelton and then to Christchurch, and, besides, the timber gets very much damaged through being handled so often. It W'ould be 3d. better if sent by railway. 1884. Mr. Clark.] I understand you had something to do with drawing up the estimate of traffic which has been published by the Bailway^ League ? —Yes. 1885. In the estimated amount receivable from timber you have considered the cutting-power of the mills ?—Yes. 1886. Did you take into consideration the consuming powers of the customers on the other side of the Island? —We did in this way : According to Mr. Blair's report there is 6,000,000 feet of timber consumed in Christchurch in the year. 1887. But you have stated it here at 12,000,000 feet ? —Six million feet are consumed in Christchureh alone, and the railway would certainly create a consumption of timber along the line. 1888. Did you not say that you have occasionally to refuse orders ? —Very often. 1889. Principally small orders ? —Yos. 1890. But if you could give vessels full freights, could you get them to take your timber at a lower rate ? —N~o. Even with a full load they will not take it at less than 3s. 6d. 1891. Can you get vessels at 3s. 6d. ? —Sometimes. During the last five months we have had three vessels able to load,
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1892. Had you orders sufficient to give a vessel a full cargo ?—Yes. 1893. Have you been unable to send away timber when you had a full cargo ready to put on board ? —We could not do it, because we had not got a vessel. 1894. Would not an additional rate of freight enable you to get vessels round? —No moderate offer would do it. I have offered as much as 4s. so as not to lose an order from a good customer, but we could not get vessels. If we offered more than 4s. the timber would not give any profit. Anything above 3s. 6d. to Lyttelton is no good. 1895. In putting down in your estimate the probable number of feet to be carried by the railway at 12,500.000 feet, you assume that you would shut out of the market every other mill? —No. I do not think we could manage that, but we could produce the timber cheaper than we are producing it now. Knowing the Southland mills, Ido not think that, if we could supply our timber at 4s. 6d. on the railway, they could beat us much. We have the advantage of having our timber close to us, whereas in Southland they have to bring it a long distance. 1896. Then, in the matter of coal, you have put down the estimate of probable traffic as 100,000 tons per annum. In estimating that, had you any information before you showing the consumption of coal in the Province of Canterbury ? —We had at the time the consumption for three years, and we added a little increase because by rail we could supply the coal cheaper, and that was bound to increase the consumption to some extent. 1897. And do you think that, with a much longer train-haulage, you could drive out of the market those mines which might be opened at the Malvern Hills, and farther south, in the direction of Timaru ? —It is very hard to tell what they could do. If we could decrease the cost of transit of our article to Christchurch, we could supply it cheaper, and, consequently, we could hold our own as we have done at present. I think we should have a fair chance of standing equal with them, even if we could not beat them out of the market. Even at present, with all the difficulties we have to contend with, we can hold our own ground with timber, because we sell it Is. cheaper. 1898. In the case of general merchandise, you have taken the total tonnage imported into Hokitika. Do you think the opening of a line of railway would give you the whole trade to Christchurch, and that it would all come across by rail? —To a great extent that would be the case. Steamers from Melbourne only come once a month, and not regularlj". A man requiring goods could get them as cheaply in Dunedin, and could have them delivered in twentjr-four or forty-eight hours; whereas if he ordered them from Melbourne by steamer, he would have to run the risk of the goods being taken on to Nelson. All these disadvantages would turn the trade from Melbourne to Canterbury or other parts of New Zealand. 1899. The Ohairman.l What is the average quantity of timber that an acre of ordinarily good bush would produce ? —The bush I have been working during the last five years comprises 480 acres, and lam sure I have taken over 8,000,000 feet out of it. For the right of cutting the timber oft' this laud I paid £875. I have no right to the land, and the value of the land now is estimated at £5 an acre. In the estimate published by the League, the value placed upon bush-land per acre included the freehold of the laud. Some of the land on which I have cut the timber I speak of has since been Bold to persons who intend to cultivate it at the rate of £3 10s. an acre. Mr. M. L. Jack sworn and examined. 1900. Mr. Wriglit.~\ In your opinion, would the construction of a railway between the East and West Coasts induce miners to pass over to the East Coast to assist in harvest-work ? —There is no doubt that it would. There is scarcely a terrace about here where the men could not earn from 30s. to £2 a week. During the harvest-time the Canterbury farmers could have the labour of the miners, and when the winter came the miners could return here and make a very good living. 1901. Does it not frequently happen that the miners are idle about harvest-time for want of sufficient water? —Yes; miners frequently have to wait for months for rain. The railway would enable these men to find employment when they would otherwise be idle, by assisting in harvest operations on the other Coast. At present there are no facilities for the miners to get to the East Coast. 1902. What is the fare across from the East Coast to here ? —The coach-fare is £5, and, owing to the expenses on the road, the trip cannot be made under £7. Mr. J. S. Lang, Chairman of the Westland County Council, sworn and examined. 1903. The Chairman.'] Are you acquainted with the Hokitika Valley? —Yes. There is a large amount of valuable timber on both sides of the valley, consisting of black pine, totara, and silver pine, and it extends for 20 or 30 miles up. It is the largest valley on the West Coast, and there are large areas covered with black pine. Gold has been discovered in several places in this valley, although nothing has been done in the way of properly prospecting it. No doubt seams of coal, similar to what are found at G-reymouth and Wcstporf, run all over that country. There is one seam of coal 1 mile from this port, and another 20 miles farther up the Hokitika Valley. There is a large quantity of black pine, totara, and silver pine iu the valley, which would be valuable for railway sleepers and for building-timber on the East Coast. 1904. Mr. Wrirjht.'] What is the thickness of the coal-seams which have been found in the Hokitika Valley ? —One seam of about 6 feet has been found, but it is lying in a perpendicular position. A company started working it, but they spent all the available money they could raise in boring to find the main seam, but the money was exhausted before they could find it. Another seam was found near Dietrich's Station. It was discovered a few years ago, but nobody has worked it. 1905. Prom your knowledge of the Hokitika Valley, do you think it presents any serious engineering difficulties in the construction of the railway? —There are no difficulties for the first 30 miles. It is all flat country. There might be a few swamps, but there would be no cuttings. 1906. Are these swamps of large extent ?—I think they can be avoided. Mr. JonN Frew, civil engineer, sworn and examined. 1907. The Chairman.'] What position do you hold in the Public Works Department ? —I am acting as engineer, but I am not on the staff.
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1908. Are you acquainted with the proposed routes for the railway between Hokitika aud Greymouth —namely, the one by the be?»ch and the other by way of Kumara ? —Yes. 1009. Do you know what is the estimated cost of each line? —No. No estimate has been made of the alternative route by way of Kumara : it has not yet been surveyed. 1910. Can you, from your knowledge of the country, give an approximate estimate of the cost of the route by way of Kumara? —Mr. O'Conor estimated the cost of the line as surveyed between Hokitika and G-reymouth at £220,000—that is, by way of the beach. The total distance is 23 miles 50 chains. The branch line running from the mouth of the Ahaura liiver through Stafford Town, Goldsborough, and Kumara, down to the mouth of the Teremakau, would increase the distance by 10 miles. The proposed deviation of the line by way of Kumara would increase the distance by 20 miles ; 2nd, judging from the nature of the country, I think the cost would be three times as great as by the beach, because by the latter route it is comparatively flat all the way. The ground rises to a considerable height on the way to Kumara, Goldsborough, and Stafford Town. 1911. Then, if the line by way of the beach would cost £100,000, the line by way of Kumara would cost £300,000 ? —I moan three times as much per mile, because the country is flat all along the beach. We have let three contracts already on the Hokitika-Greymouth Eailway, which may give some idea of the cost for formation only. 1912. Do you consider the returns from the traffic would be larger by the Kumara line than by the beach line ? —I think they would be larger by the Kumara line. 1913. Do you think the traffic on the line by way of Kumara would be three times greater than the traffic on the beach line ? —I do not think so. 1914. Mr. Wright.] What has been the cost on the beach line, judging by the contracts already executed ? —About £2,000 per mile for formation only —earthworks and culverts. 1915. Do you mean to say that you estimate the cost of earthworks on the Kumara line at £6,000 per mile ?—Yes. That is only judging from the nature of the country. No survey has been made ; but the road-line gives one a good idea of the country the line would have to pass over. 191C. But, as far as you are able to judge, you think the earthworks on that route would cost £6,000 per mile ?—Tes. 1917. To what extent would that increase the cost of the line between G-reymouth and Hokitika ? —About £60,000 —that is, taking £2,000 per mile as the basis. There are 10 miles extra, and that ■would amount to £60,000. 1918. Would there be no increased cost on the other 10 miles forming part of the deviation ? —Tes, there would be £40,000 on that. 1919. So that the total increase on that basis would be £100,000. —Tes. 1920. What is the character of the country by the beach route ?—lt is comparatively flat the whole way. 1921. In a commercial point of view, what is the value of that route—is it good agricultural land, or good bush-land ;oris it sandhills and swamps ?—lt is principally sandy and swampy. It runs over the edge of the last terrace. 1922. Is there any considerable population settled on that line ?—Not between here and Greymouth. 1923. What population is settled on the route by Kumara ?—About 5,000 or 6,000 at Stafford Town, Goldsborough, and Kumara. 1924. Do you not think that the fact of there being a large population settled on the inland route would compensate for the extra cost of construction ? —I am not prepared to give an opinion upon that point. 1925. The Chairman.] The original estimate for the lino between Hokitika and Greymouth being £220,000, do you think, judging by the contracts already completed on that line, that the original estimate was too high?—Tes. The original estimate was about £9,900 per mile altogether. That includes bridges and permanent way. Of course, there will be a bridge over the Ahaura and over the Teremakau. 1926. Is it generally admitted by the engineering department that the work will be completed for very much less than the £200,000 ? —I have never heard it spoken of. If other contracts are carried out at the same rate as those which have been let for £2,000 per mile, the line will be completed for less than £200,000. I think the contracts were taken very low, but they may be taken as low again. 1927. Mr. Clarlc.~\ Do you think the contracts were taken at a price which did not give a fair wage ?—They were carried out; but I fancy they were taken a little too low. 1928. Is it your opinion that other contracts will not be taken so low ? —They may not, but I think the difference would be very slight. The contractors who tendered at the price I mentioned did not fail. 1929. Mr. Wright.'] Is the country which has yet to be passed over the same as that over which the line has already been constructed? —It is a little more difficult. At the Greymouth end 3 miles 50 chains of the line cost £8,751. I think the Greymouth end of the line will give a fair average. That will be £2,500 a mile. 1930. Which of the two lines would serve the best country for settlement ?—The land at Stafford Town, Goldsborough, and Kumara is not very suitable for agriculture, as it is all stiff clay and swamp ; but, judging from the Kumara gold fields, it will carry a mining population for a number of years. 1931. The Chairman.'] What is the steepest grade on the direct line by the beach, and what is the steepest grade by the deviation ? —On the beach route the line is flat all through, and the steepest grade on the Kumara line might be 1 in 50 for a short distance. 1932. Tou would get a difference of 1 in 50 by the deviation, as against, practically, a level line by the other route ? —Tes. 1933. Would not that make a material difference in carrying on a coal traffic?—Tes; it would make a great difference in working expenses.
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1934. Mr. Wright."] You have stated that the heaviest grade by the Kumara route would be 1 in 50 over a short distance. What would be the ruling grade on the rest of the route? —I think good grades could be got between (Joldsborough and Kumara, except in one or two places. There might be 3 miles altogether over which there would be this steep grade of 1 in 50. 1935. The Chairman.] Would the Teremakau River have to be bridged by either route ?—Tes. 193G. Mr. Wriglit.] The heaviest grades are not continuous ?—No. 1937. What is the longest portion?—l cannot say, as the line has not been surveyed. 1938. If you are not able to state the length of any continuous portion, how are you able to say that there will be 3 miles of total length ? —lfrom my knowledge of the road-line, and knowing the country between Kumara and the beach. 1939. Then the grade would depend altogether on the route chosen ? —Tes, a good deal. 1910. Is it not possible that a route might be found by which these grades of 1 in 50 might be obviated altogether ? You are not in a position to say that that might not be the case? —I am not. 19-11. The Chairman.] What is the length of the railway line from Hokitika to the Teremakau ?— Thirteen miles and three-quarters. 1912. What is the distance from the Teremakau to Kumara ?—Six miles. 1943. By the deviation, what would be the distance from Hokitika to Kumara?—About 19 miles. 1944. That is, going along the beach by the level road, and up from the Teremakau to Kumara, would be only three-quarters of a mile longer than to take the line through difficult country, by steep grades, to Kumara ? —Yes. 1945. Is there any steep grade between the Teremakau and Kumara along the present lino of tramway ? —No, there is no steep grade there. There is no steep grade between Stafford Town and the beach. 1946. The communication with Kumara might be established in that way with only an extra distance of three-quarters of a mile?—Yes. 1917. The only extra cost would be G miles from the Teremakau to Kumara? —Yes.
Kumaea, Mondax, 3ed May, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. John J. Pearn, Mayor; James Wylde, Town Clerk; Councillors Edwin Blake, and A. C. Campbell, waited upon the Commission. 1948. Mr. Pearn: The deputation have waited upon the Commission in regard to the Grreymouth and Hokitika Railway. We regret that, from the shortness of your stay, you will be unable to see the town so as to judge of its capabilities and the likelihood of its permanence. I do not think that we have much that is new to bring before you. Mr. Wylde gave evidence before a Select Committee of the House of Representatives last sessiou. The report and evidence were printed and laid before the Assembly. We wish the Commission to recommend that the survey which was ordered should be iindertaken, and that there should be a deviation of the line to Kuinara. Mr. Edwin Blake sworn and examined. 1918a. The Chairman.] What representation do you wish to make to the Commission ? —Our principal desire is that the railway should be continued from Grey mouth to Hokitika, audthat there should be a deviation of the line to Kuinara. To take the line along the beach, where no one resides, would be useless to the inhabitants of the interior. It would no doubt be useful to Hokitika, but not to the inhabitants of the interior of the country. There are not ten persons living on the beacli between A.rahura and Teremakau. In Kumara there are 3,000 inhabitants; in Goldsborougb. and Stafford Town, 2,500; iu Greenstone and Westbrook, 500: making a total of 6,000 inhabitants. We wish the survey to be made to show that there are no engineering difficulties in the way, and that the cost would not be so great as compared with the advantages that would be derived and the traffic produced. If the East Coast Railway were to come down the Teremakau, 16 miles of railway only would be required to join from where it would cross the Teremakau to junction with the deviation here, as now asked for. That would do away with the bridging of the Teremakau at the Thirty-three-Mile Post. 1919. lifr. Clark.~\ Aparb from any question relating to connection with the East Coast Railway, do you consider that the population in the districts you have mentioned would give sufficient traffic for the line to pay for the increased cost ? —T am quite certain of this: that if the line is worth making at all, it would pay much better with the deviation than without it. 1950. Mr. Heid.'] What is the character of the land along the beach ? —lt is sand and swamp, and has all been mined over. 1951. Does that description apply to the land for any great distance inland from the proposed line ?—lt applies for an average of about a mile. The remainder of the land is high terrace-ground. 1952. Would the high terrace-ground be of any use for agricultural purposes ?—Yery little, I should think. 1953. Have you formed any estimate of the amount of traffic that would be given to tho line by its going in the direction you indicate ?—I am not prepared to say exactly what the amount of traffic would be. We have 100 tons of goods brought to this place every week. I cannot speak as to the passenger traffic. 1954. Of what does the goods traffic principally consist ? —lt consists principally of provisions— of supplies of all kinds. 1955. Would there be any back traffic ?—At present we have no back traffic. 1956. In the event of the line being carried round here, is there any other source of traffic for the line except passengers and merchandise? —Our traffic consists of very small parcels. 1957. The Chairman.'] Would you not have timber ?—-We would send some timber back. I suppose it would be a long time before we sent timber from hero. The timber would be cleared near the ports before it would be cleared here.
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1958. Mr. Wright.'] "What has been the cost of constructing the tramway from here to G-rey-mouth? — -I think it cost about £11,000, including machinery and everything connected with it. 1959. What is the distance ? —Fourteen miles. 1960. And very easy ground the whole way ?—Tes, the grades are very easy. It is a good, straight line all the way. 1961. Would it be cheaper to work the through-line from Greymouth to Hokitika via Kumara, than the beach line and two branches ? —Tes, I think so. 1962. Is the country between Kumara and the Arahura very difficult country ?—About 4 miles of it would be very difficult. Prom the Waimea to Staffordtown would be the only difficult part. 19G3. Mr. Glark.~\ Is there a large extent of auriferous ground of a similar character to that worked, which has not yet been taken up ?—The whole of the back country is of the same character, and is open for occupation. 1964. Is there a plentiful supply of water?—We have at present a good supply of water. As the large tunnels are completed we shall require more water. 1965. Mr. Wright.] Are the workings along the beach abandoned ?—I think they are almost abandoned.. There are about sixteen men mining there. The beach is almost abandoned.
GuEYMOTJTH, TUESDAY, 4tH MAY, 1880. A deputation, consisting of the following gentlemen, waited upon the Commission : Mr. Richard Nancarrow (Mayor), Mr. Arthur R. Guinness (Chairman of County Council) ; Councillors Jas. Marshal], David Madden, John Reid, J. M. Clifford, W. H. Boase, Arthur Ellis, Patrick Foley ; Borough Councillors Joseph Kilgour, W. J. Coates, J. G. Thomas, P. B. Cameron, and F. C Dupre. Mr. Edward Masters, M.H.R., and Mr. Martin Kennedy. 1966. Mr. Nancarrow made the following statement: The first line that we desire to bring under the notice of the Commission is the Nelson Creek Railway, A vote of £50,000 was taken during last session of Parliament for this section. We shall be prepared to furnish evidence of the advantages which will accrue to this district from the construction of this section of railway. The manager of the Brunner Railway will give evidence as to the amount of traffic on the present section to Brunnerton, 8 miles in length, and produce the returns for the last two years. We have collected other evidence, from county officials and others, as to the probable increase of traffic when the extension takes place to Nelson Creek. The additional 9 miles will take this railway pretty well into the centre of Grey Valley, and will greatly increase the downward traffic, or rather create a downward traffic from the country of agricultural produce; and we anticipate that, as all railways do, it will increase the passenger traffic. The construction of this line to Nelson Creek, as we understand, represents a portion of either the Grey and Nelson Railway or the East and West Coast line. Supposing the Government eventually decided to construct either or both of these railways, this particular section would be so much done of either of them. It is not the purpose of this deputation to urge upon the Commission now the construction of one or other of these lines. What we wish particularly to urge is the advantages that would accrue to the district from the construction of this particular line to Nelson Creek from Brunnerton, 9 miles in length. There is already a section of three-quarters of a mile of this length to Nelson Creek let to the Stillwater, and this three-quarters of a mile is the most difficult and expensive of the whole of the 9 miles. This portion of three-quarters of a mile is already in course of construction. From the returns that we see published in the Gazette from time to time this Grey and Brunner Railway appears to take the first place, as regards returns, over the whole of the railways in the colony; and we will be able to show you that, in the event of this farther addition being made, the returns will be increased even in a greater proportion. With respect to this section of the railway, there is an almost unlimited extent of black-birch bush about the termination of the line. This is a description of timber which, is very scarce in all other parts of the colony. It is greatly in demand, and would form an important item of freight. This railway would terminate near a large and important Government work known as the Nelson Creek Water-race, and of course would greatly help to lessen the cost of provisions to miners in the district, and would have a tendency to locate a much larger population around this work. It would also command the whole of the freight and passenger traffic to the Grey Valley, a district holding a population of about 7,000. Mr. Thomas Ronayne, General Manager of the Brunner Railway, sworn and examined. 1967. The Ghairman.~\ Are you acquainted with the extension of the line from Brunnerton to Nelson Creek ? —I have not been over the line ; I have been over the country. 1968. Can you state from what sources traffic might be expected for that line, and to what extent it would probably improve the traffic of the line now existing ? —I can only form an opinion as to the probable goods traffic. 1969. What would be the nature of the traffic ? —We would secure by the extension of the line all the up-country traffic which is now carried on by drays. 1970. What does that traffic now chiefly consist of? —Stores for the supply of miners and settlers at Reefton and Grey Valley generally. That is the up-traffic. The down-traffic is almost nil at present. The down-traffic would be augmented by the stock that would be sent down, and by the produce of the farmers in the Grey Valley, and the timber traffic would also be increased, there being a good birch bush, which in the vicinity of Greymouth is now nearly exhausted. 1971. Is birch timber much in demand here ? —Yes ; it is greatly in demand by the Government for sleepers, and also for bridge works and wharves. 1972. Mr. Wright."] Can you say approximately what proportion of the traffic by the Grey Valley is now carried by rail ?—We carry about half of the traffic ; the other half goes direct by wagons from Greymouth, the cause being the shortness of the line.
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1973. The black birch you speak of as being abundant is, I take it, of superior quality to that generally found on the East Coast? —All the birch on this Coast is supposed to be good ; there is no bad birch. 1974. This birch has always been looked upon by the Government engineers as of superior quality ?—lt is good durable timber and of superior quality. Some of the sleepers have been in use six years, and are now as good as when put in. 1975. Where is the stone for the breakwater obtained from ? —From the gorge quarry adjacent to the town, and is carried from the quarry by rail. 1976. "What charge is credited to the railway in connection with that?—lt is not carried by the Eailway Department; it is in connection with the railway itself. 1977. Does it not pass over the railway ?—lt merely runs over a crossing of the main line. 1978. The Public Works Department have a special line ? —Yes. Any work we do for the Public Works Department we get paid for at half-rates. 1980. Can you give the number of passengers carried monthly over the section between here and Brunnerton ? —I can give it to you for the nine months. The number of passengers is 34,768— all classes of passengers. This does not include free passes, school tickets, or season tickets. 1981. What amount do those 34,768 passengers contribute to the railway ? —£1,482 3s. Bd. 1982. What is the value of your goods traffic during the same period? —The goods traffic amounted to 36,412 tons 5 cwt., and the money value was £4,285 4s. sd. The timber traffic was 397,373 feet. 1983. Any stock traffic ?—The stock traffic for the nine months was nil, in consequence of the distance being too short. 1984. The extension of the line to Nelson Creek would, in your opinion, bring stock traffic ?—lt would secure a certain amount of traffic on that line of sheep, pigs, and calves. 1985. Can you give the merchandise traffic separately ? —The general merchandise traffic was 1,780 tons for the same period of nine months. 1986. Do you consider this quantity to be half the total of the traffic up the Grey Valley ?—Tes. The difference between 1,780 tons and 36,412 tons represents the coal, coke, and timber traffic. Of coal there was 33,837 tons; coke,firebricks, and other minerals, 793 tons; and timber, 786 tons. As to the amount of merchandise carried, when I say half, the general opinion is that I have over-estimated the'merchandise traffic, and that a third would be the correct amount. 1987. Mr. Reid.'] Do you anticipate any great increase in the passenger traffic by the extension of this line ?—A larger number of people will travel, and I would anticipate an increase of 25 per cent. 1988. Over the whole length ? —No ; but you might safely say 15 per cent, over the whole length of the line. 1989. Mr. Clarlc.~\ From the returns which you have given regarding the passenger and goods traffic, coal is evidently the item which makes this line pay so well ? —There is no question about that. The coal traffic is the mainstay of our line. 1990. Then would the extension of the line tap any other coal measures, so as to increase the coal traffic? —The coal supply at Brunnerton is ample to meet the requirements of New Zealand and the adjacent colonies for many years to come. 1991. Therefore the extension of the line would not increase the coal traffic ?—lt would increase the coal traffic to a certain extent, for coal which is now taken by drays up country would go by rail at a low cost, and the coal as a fuel would take the place of wood, which is now solely used up the Valley. 1992. What would you estimate the amount of that up-country coal traffic at ? —I would say, approximately, 500 tons a year, with an increase every year. 1993. If this extension were completed, the receipts on the whole line would show a worse percentage to expenses than they do at present ?—The receipts per mile per annum would certainly appear less, but it does not follow that the working expenses would bear a greater proportion to the receipts than they do at present, because the additional length of line would be worked at only a slight increase on present cost, the same staff being available to a great extent. The chief additional item of expenditure would be maintenance, which would not exceed £1,000 a year for the 9 miles. 1994. Could you undertake, with your present locomotive appliances, to work the extended line ? —With our present locomotive power, which is inadequate, I could not undertake the working of the additional length. But with an additional engine, which is now required for present traffic, all engine power required would be available, and the locomotive expenditure should not be increased to a greater extent than 15 per cent. 1995. Mr. fVriffht.] The amount of annual profit on this line is about 50 per cent, of the receipts? —The expenditure for the last nine months has not been compiled. From the Ist July, 1879, to the 6th March, 1880, the percentage of receipts was 4902, which leaves a profit of nearly 51 per cent, over and above our working expenses. For the nine months ending 31st March there will be a profit of 52 per cent., as we had a good month. 1996. What I want to arrive at is the total receipts and the total expenditure for the nine months ? The total receipts for the nine months from all sources amounted to £7,683 2s. 6d. 1997. Of which about 52 per cent, is profit ?—Tes. 1998. Being a trifle under £4,000 for the nine months ?—Tes. 1999. The Chairman.] Can you say how far the coal is adapted for use in the locomotives ? —lt is admirably adapted for use in locomotives, giving an abundant supply of steam. But, as a fuel, the coke which, is produced in this district is beyond all question the most suitable for locomotive purposes. Mr. Ebwabd Butler, sworn and examined. 2000. The Chairman."] What is your avocation ?—I am a County Road Overseer. 2001. You are acquainted with the road between Brunnerton and Nelson Creek ? —Tes. 2002. Can you give the Commission an approximate estimate of the existing freight traffic on that road ? —I have prepared a rough estimate of the freight traffic on the road, wdiich I produce in evidence: 1, to Maori Gully, about 2| tons weekly; 2, to No Town, about 5 tons weekly; 3, to Nelson
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Creek, about 7 tons weekly; 4, to Aliaura, about 8 tons weekly; 5, to Totara Flat, about 3 tons weekly ; 6, to Junction, about 26| tons weekly : total, 52 tons weekly. There is one four-horse coach tri-weekly, with about 18 passengers per week. There is a considerable saddle-traffic, and also local dray-traffic carried on by the farmers, saw-mill owners, and others, to and from Greymouth, Brunnerton, and the different places named. The light vehicles carry a class of freight that pays better than the larger vehicles —such as valuable parcels, &c. The whole of the above freight is carried over about 1J miles of the Grey and Reefton road — i.e., from Brunnerton to Maori Gully—and about 12 tons direct from Greymouth, 8& miles ; there is 49j tons carried weekly over about 4 miles of the main road — i.e., to No Town ; 44J- tons carried over 9 miles —to Nelson Creek ; 371 tons carried over 14 miles —to Ahaura ; 2Q\ tons carried oyer 18 miles —to Totara Plat; and 26| tons carried over 21 miles ■—to Junction. 2003. Mr. Wright.'] Tour estimate is of the traffic that would pass over the extension of the railway from Brunnerton to Nelson Creek ? —Yes. 2004. Mr. Clark.] Some portion of it will add to the traffic on the existing line ? —Yes. 2005. Mr. Wright.] The last witness stated that about two-thirds of the traffic passed by road, and one-third by railway. Are you able to confirm that statement ? —The estimate which I have just put in does not coincide with that evidence. 2006. Does your estimate show a greater or less proportion passing over the road ? —lt shows a less proportion of traffic on the road. 2007. The Chairman.] Can you give the Commission any information as to the probable increase in the timber traffic that might be expected ? —lf this extension of the railway is completed before the other portion of the line to Hokitika is undertaken, the greater part of the black-birch timber required for the Hokitika line could be obtained in the vicinity of Nelson Creek, the termination of the proposed extension. Black-birch timber is in great abundance, and of very good quality. The timber would also be used by the County Council for bridges and culverts for main roads south of Greymouth, if it could be obtained at such low rates as I think the extension of the line would bring about. South of Greymouth there is very little timber of a lasting nature ; it is principally pine timber, of a perishable nature. 2008. Do you mean between Greymouth and Hokitika ?—I mean between Greymouth and Teremakau. There is very little black-birch timber between here and Hokitika. I think there would be an export for this timber if it could be delivered at Greymouth at a cheap rate. A charge of 3s. per 100 feet would enable it to be exported. I may mention that local producers in the Grey Valley have stated that they would be able to supply chaff here at lower rates than it can be supplied from Melbourne or other ports, were it not for the extra freight they have to pay in sending it to market by wagons. There is a considerable amount of local traffic between the various up-country towns carried on by the saw-mill owners, farmers, butchers, and business people, which would also add to the traffic on the railway. 2009. Mr. Wright.] Is there so little traffic down the valley that a number of wagons from Eeefton return empty ? —Very often they do. 2010. Are they not willing to carry the chaff at a lower rate ?—They would carry it at a lower rate; but not at a sufficiently low rate to enable the producers to send it to market. 2011. "What is the rate now charged by the carriers on the road ? —I cannot say. Mr. James Maeshall sworn and examined. 2012. The Chairman.] What is your occupation ? —I am a farmer, residing at Totara Plat, in the Grey Valley. 2013. Can you state what is the present cost of carriage of farm produce from Nelson Creek to Brunnerton ? —They do not grow a great deal of produce in the vicinity of Nelson Creek, as the land is not well adapted for it; but on the Totara Flat upwards of 500 tons of produce could be sent to market every year, consisting of chaff, potatoes, oats, &c, if we had a conveyance to forward it to Greymouth, that being the only market to which we could send it. The cost of carriage of goods from Totara to Brunnerton is £2 13s. per ton. 2014. Mr. Beid] What is the distance ?—About 19 miles. 2015. Mr. Wright.] Is the Totara Valley capable of producing a much larger quantity than 600 tons? —Yes; it will produce any quantity. It is a very large agricultural district, consisting of open country. 201G. About how many thousand acres in extent?—You pass over 9 miles of the Ahaura Flat and Totara Flat, and it is about a mile in width. There would be between 5,000 and 10,000 acres of open country. 2017. The extension of the railway to Nelson Creek would bring the centre of the valley within 10 miles of the terminus ?—Yes. Farmers could bring their produce to the Nelson Creek Railway and return the same day. The cost would be merely nominal. 2018. What is the usual charge for carriage from Brunnerton to Totara Flat?— £s per ton, including the railway cost from Greymouth. 2019. And the charge from Greymouth to Eeefton ?—lt is about £8 or £10 per ton. 2020. Mr. Nancarrow: The other line we wish to bring under the notice of the Commission is the Greymouth and Hokitika line. We are of opinion that if this line is to be constructed by the Government it should be carried through the centre of population on the Coast by way of Kumara, and not by the sea-beach, as has been advocated in some quarters. Wo are prepared with some evidence as to the amount of traffic there would be from this end to the Kumara District. 2021. The Chairman : I would suggest that the deputation should obtain carefullv-prepared information, and send it to us. We do not propose to take any further evidence, but to leave it to the deputation to ascertain the views of the different local bodies, and forward to the Commission a distinct recommendation upon the subject. If they are of opinion that the Hokitika line should be made, let them point out which route they would prefer; if they are of opinion that the line should be abandoned, they can suggest any other line which they think it would be more to their interest to have constructed. The deputation withdrew.
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The following additional sworn evidence was subsequently forwarded to the Commission by the chairman of the deputation : — Mr. Thomas Eonayne, General Manager of the Brunner Eailway, sworn and examined. 2022. As soon as the railway already commenced is completed as far as the Teremakau the increased cost of working the line to my department will be as follows: Maintenance of way, per annum for the first three years —9 platelayers at £10 per month of four weeks £1,170, foreman or ganger £156 —£1,326; half-time for carpenter at £3 18s. per week £93 125,, ditto for blacksmith £93 125.—£187 4s. ; stores, say, per annum, £50 : total, £1,563 4s. (After first three years this estimate may be reduced, say, 20 per cent.) Locomotive —Engine-driver at £3 125., including overtime, per week, £190; fireman at £2 14s. per week, including overtime, say £145 ; cleaner, half-time, £65 ; fuel, say 6s. per diem, or £116s. per week, or, outside, £2 per week, £100 ; oil, tallow, waste, and other stores, say, £30 ; fitter, say quarter-time at £3 18s. per week, £50 ; smith, say one-eighth time at £3 18s. per week, £25: total, £605. Carriages and wagons —Maintenance, stores, &c, say, £50. Traffic — Guard, £150; man at Teremakau, house rent-free, say £160; junior clerk, £100. General charges, £150; stores for traffic, £25. Summary —Maintenance, £1,563 45.; locomotive, £605 ; other items, £485 : total, £2,653 4s. If the line is continued through to Kumara, a distance of 5|- miles additional, the extra cost for maintenance would not exceed £663 per annum ; other items under this head, say £50: total, £713. Locomotive—Fitter, half-time, £100; carriages and wagons, nil. Traffic, no increased cost under this head. General charges, no increased cost under this head. Stores for traffic, say, £10. Total extra to Kumara, £823. (Fuel omitted above, £25.) Mr. Joseph KiliGotte, timber-merchant and sawmiller, sworn and examined. 2023. On completion of railway to south side of Teremakau, I estimate the timber traffic to Greymouth would be at least 25,000 feet per week. My estimate of the passenger traffic likely to be created by a railway being constructed from Greymouth to Kumara is, that it would be ten times the number now carried by the Grey and Kumara Tramway. This estimate is based upon my length of residence in the district —about fifteen years —and my knowledge of the requirements of the miners settled in the Kumara District. Mr. Maetin Kennedy, coal-proprietor, ship-owner, and merchant, sworn and examined. 2024. I am a director of the Greymouth and Kumara Tramway Company. I have obtained from the secretary an abstract of the traffic returns for the year ending 31st March, 1880, which I now present, with a balance-sheet of the Company's affairs for the year ending 18th January, 1880. The total receipts, as shown upon the balance-sheet, from all sources, amount to £4,904. Supposing a railway lino to be constructed to the north bank of the Teremakau, my estimate of the increased traffic upon that carried by the Tramway Company would be^—on number of passengers carried, 100 per cent.; tonnage of merchandise carried, 50 per cent.; tonnage of coal carried, 100 per cent. If the railway line were constructed through to Kumara, my estimate of the increased traffic would be as follows :On number of passengers carried, 500 per cent.; tonnage of merchandise carried, 100 per cent,; tonnage of coal carried, 500 per cent. Abstract of traffic on Greymouth and Kumara Tramway Company's line (Greymouth to Kumara, distance 14 miles) for year ending 31st March, 1880.—Passenger tickets issued at Greymouth Station (single fares, 75.; return fares, 125.), 2,285 ; passenger tickets issued at Kumara Station, 2,644 : total, 4,929. Merchandise carried, 863 tons; coal carried, 190 tons: total, 1,053 tons, at £2 per ton of 2,2401b. Intermediate traffic— Passenger tickets, Australasian, 347 (rates to Greymouth, Is.); passenger tickets, Paroa, 361 (rates to Greymouth, 2s. 6d.); passenger tickets, Teremakau,'ll6 (rates to Greymouth, 55.). Goods traffic almost nil, being carried from house to house by one or two express drays. Mail service, twice daily, £250. Eeefton, Tuesday, 4th Mat, 1880. Mr. Pateick Bbennan, Chairman of the Inangahua County Council, sworn and examined. 2025. The Chairman.'] Are you acquainted with the proposed route of the railway from Nelson to Grevmouth? —lam acquainted with that portion of the route which lies between Greymouth and Hampden. 2026. Do you think it would be to the advantage of Eeefton if that railway were made ? —I do. 2027. Would it have the effect of materially developing the mining industry by cheapening the price of provisions and the transport of mining machinery ? —Tes. 2028. How would it affect the Lyell ?■ —'It would also benefit the Lyell wonderfully. 2029. Would the cheapening of the price of provisions lessen the cost of ordinary wages?—Tes, it would lead to a reduction of ordinary wages. 2030. Would that have a beneficial effect on the mining industry?—Tes, both in the Eeefton district and in the Lj'ell. 2031. What is the smallest yield of gold per ton which is considered payable, taking the average of the mines where there is no special difficulty?—Five pennyweights to the ton. There ia a reef at Eainy Creek, 20 feet thick, which has proved 5 dwt. to the ton to be payable. 2032. Is not that an exceptional case ? —Tes ; the reef is of unusual thickness. 2033. Supposing the reef to be 4 feet or 5 feet thick, would not a larger amount of gold be necessary to make it payable ? —Under existing circumstances it would; but if wages were materially reduced, and the cost of machinery also reduced, 5 dwt. per ton would pay. 2034. What yield of gold would pay under existing circumstances ?—ln a reef 5 feet thick, 7 dwt. to the ton would pay with water-power crushing, and possibly even with, steam-power it would leave a margin of profit. 2035. Do you think the construction of a railway from Nelson through this part of the country Would have the effect of stimulating the mining industry to any considerable extent ? —I do. 2036. Do you think it would also lead to a greater amount of settlement in this country ? —I do 16—E. 3.
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2037. Is there any extent of agricultural land in tin's neighbourhood—within, say, 10 miles of Reefton?—There is a considerable amount of agriculturaral land within 10 miles; but, relatively to other parts of New Zealand, there is not. 2038. And what there is I suppose is generally covered with bush?—The good land is lightly timbered. The good land in this district lies along the banks of the rivers. In some instances it is thickly timbered, while in others it is sparsely timbered. 2039. Is there any considerable extent of land covered with good marketable timber? —Any amount. 2040. Can you give any idea of the area of good forest-land ? —I have not the slightest conception of it, but I can safely say that there are thousands of acres of black birch, red birch, red pine, white pine, and totara. lam speaking now of the country within 10 miles of Eeefton, on this side of the Grey Valley. You may take a circle, of which this town would be the centre, with a radius of about 5 miles, and you could extend it and call it 10 miles, and in the direction of Murray Creek you could travel 10 miles, in timber-land. 2041. Do you think any trade in sawn timber would arise if a railway were made from Nelson to this place ?■ —Considering the description of timber with which the country here abounds, I think a trade in sawn timber must arise if a railway is made to Nelson. Of course, at the same time it must be recollected that there is timber close to Grcymouth, and Greymouth might possibly undersell Nelson, which would have an effect upon the probable timber trade from this place. There is also good timber in the direction of Hampden, which would be a great deal nearer to Nelson than we are. 2042. Jllr. Meid.~\ Do your mines require a great amount of timber in the way of props, caps, and so forth ? —Tes ; there is more timber used here in working the mines than is used in Victoria. 2043. Would that form an article of traffic for the line? —No, because there is very often abundant timber immediately adjacent to the mines. 2044. Over what extent of country have the reefs been proved, to be payably auriferous ? —There are 17 miles of country, as the reefs run, which have been proved to bo payably auriferous. Between that part of the country and the Lyell the county has not been proved. Some of the reefs have been proved as deep as 500 feet. The Golden Fleece Extended Mine has sunk GOO feet below the outcrop, and they have got gold to a depth of 500 feet. I think there is likely to be a considerable population here for some years engaged in working the reefs. In the direction of Bainy Creek, about 6 or 7 miles from lleefton, there are immense quantities of poor stone which would give 5 dwt. and 6 dwt. to the ton. It is a difficult part of the country to get machinery into, and wages here are high. The other reefs, which give 11 oz. to the ton, have drawn attention away from these poor reefs for the present, but I think they are bound to be worked some day. Some of the leases are protected. The shareholders have every confidence in the reefs, but they have no inducement to put machinery on the ground at present, while everything is so high. 2045. Are these reefs you speak of extensive ?—Tes, they are very extensive: they would be called big reefs anywhere, and they would yield from 5 dwt. to 7 dwt. 2046. Do you know any other probable sources of traffic for the railway line besides the conveyance of provisions for the miners, and machinery ? —There is any amount of coal in this district. 2047. Is it equal in quality to the Greymouth coal ? —1 do not think it is for gas purposes; but there are places at Murray Creek and Boatman's Creek where you can obtain splendid coal for smithy work and general work. I have heard it said, however, that this coal would not be good for making gas. In many instances the seams are very large. 2048. Is there much land suitable for agriculture ?—There is a good deal of agricultural land about Hampden and up the Matakitaki, and some very good land about the junction of the Inangahua and the Buller, and between that junction and the Lyell, along the Buller liiver. There is a good deal of land there which has not been taken up. However, there are no extensive flats over which the eye can range for miles. It is only along the river-banks that good patches are found. 2049. Has any grain been grown about here ?—ln some instances grain has been grown. Nearly all the chaff used here is grown in the immediate neighbourhood. 2050. Do you think it probable that, as the place grows, or as settlement is induced by land being opened up, sufficient cultivation would be undertaken to supply the wants of the district ? —Just now a disposition to grow crops does not exist. Prices are high, and the people here have gone more into grass for cattle-raising. Very likely the construction of a railway would lead to more cropping of land than is carried on at present. 2051. Mr. Wright.'] What is the cost of the carriage of merchandise from Greymouth here ?—lt ranges from £7 to £9 per ton. 2052. What amount of tonnage is comprised in crushing batteries of average size ?—About 30 tons. 2053. What is the thickness of the reefs now at work ?—They vary. Twenty feet in thickness is exceptional. Some are 18 inches thick. The Inkerman Company has a reef 20 feet thick ; the yields are 5 dwt. to the ton. There is another claim in the same neighbourhood—the Oriental—which is 10 feet thick ; it gives an ounce to the ton. The Keep it Dark reef is from 12 feet to 15 feet thick ; the average yield is about 10 dwt. to the ton. The Energetic reef averages from 12 feet to 15 feet, and yields 9 dwt. The Golden Treasure is 9 feet thick, and yields 9 dwt. The reef in the Golden Fleece Extended is very irregular. At present it is not more than 2 feet or 2-J feet thick, and the yield is 1-j oz. to the ton. The Welcome reef is about 2 feet thick ; the yield 3-j oz. to the ton. The Just in Time reef is 2 feet thick, and the yield 1 oz. to the ton. The Fiery Cross reef is 2 feet thick, and the yield 1-J- oz. to the ton. There are other mines, but they are not at work just now. There is only one mine at the Lyell at work just now, and that is the United Alpine. The reef averages 8 feet thick, and the yield is 13-J dwt. to the ton. That has been the average for the last six months. The Keep it Dark has been paying dividends wdthout interruption for the past two or three years ; thev have averaged Bd. per share a month. There are 20,000 £l-shares in the company. 2054. Tou have spoken of large seams of coal: can you give the thickness of any of them ?— There is one seam within 2 J miles of Eeefton, which has never been worked, and which is 7 feet thiek.
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At Murray Creek I know of two seams G feet thick each ; they are merely worked by mining companies for engine purposes. There is a mine at Boatman's Creek which is worked for the coal trade ; it is about 0 feet thick. 2055. Are these seams spread over any very large extent of country ? —I think so, judging from the formation of the country. You can trace the coal from Boatman's Creek into Murray's Creek—a straight line of about 5 miles. Then it goes across into Eainv Creek, and the coal has been traced for a length of about 10 miles. 2056. What is the population of this county ?—The county extends to Tophouse, and down to the junction of the Big and Little Rivers, and it also extends up the Maruia to Cannibal Gorge. The population of the county may be set down at about 3,000. During the last twelve months it has decreased to the extent of 200. That is attributable in a great measure to the discovery of two new gold fields—one at Seventeen-Mile Bush, and another between the Grey and Kumara. 2057. The Chairman.'] Do you know what amount has been declared in dividends by the various mining companies here? —Tes. I wisli to hand in to the Commission a return giving the particulars. There have been 189,076 tons of stone crushed, yielding 173,170 oz. of gold. The dividends paid amounted to £227,293. There are ten mines in active operation. This return is up to October, 1879. Just now there are seven batteries at work. One of the seven is not regularly at work. There are 120 stampers in all. 2058. Mr. Clark.] Are there any mills in course of erection ? —A contract was let to-night for the erection of a battery of ten head of stampers for the "Welcome Company. The figures I have given do not include the Lyell mines. There are fifteen head of stampers at the Lyell. There is another battery of ten head at the Lyell, but it is not at work, on account of its bad situation. The Lyell has not been prospected like this place. "With regard to the quantity of good land fit for agriculture in this county, I may say that up the Matakitaki Eiver there is a great deal of good land. There is also a great deal of good land on the Maruia Plains, near Cannibal Gorge. A farmer who has grown some wheat there says he never saw better wheat grown anywhere. We have made a road in order to get into the Amuri country by way of the Cannibal Gorge. There is a means of getting into Canterbury by way of that gorge without any considerable difficulty. The route by the Cannibal Gorge presents no difficulties at all in the way of the construction of a railway from the East to the West Coast. When you get on to the Maruia Plains there is very good land. 2059. Do you know the extent of open land in the Maruia Plain ? —I think Mr. O'Conor, the Engineer, said there were 4,000 or 5,000 acres in one particular place, where I have already said some very good wheat was grown. I think the Plain is from 15 to 20 miles long, and 2or 3 miles wide. 2060. Do you know what quantity of land there is up the Matakitald Eiver ?—I have been up that river for 7 miles, and on each side of the river for that distance there is a large quantity of land. It would average on one side three-quarters of a mile wide. Mr. Foy never reported upon the route I allude to by Cannibal Gorge for the East and West Coast Railway. He never came down the Inangahua \ Talley to this town. He was at the Cannibal Gorge, because I know some of his surveypegs were there. The following is a report which was furnished to the County Council by the surveyor who laid off the new track connecting the Amuri country with this district: — " Sie,— " Eeefton, 16th October, 1879. " In accordance with your instructions of 12th September last, I have made a survey and examined the country lying between Reefton and the Maruia Plains, connecting with Mr. Foy's station, on the line from Christchurch through Cannibal Gorge. I took the levels and distances of portions of the country —namely, the saddle lying between the Inangahua Eiver and the Eahu, a tributary of the Maruia Eiver—the plan and section of which accompanies this report, from which it will be seen that comparatively level ground is attained—on the Inangahua side in 4^- miles, with a fall of 650 feet; and on the Maruia slope, in 3J miles, with a fall of 750 feet. This height, for railway purposes, could be overcome by exceptional grades, as follows: Inangahua slope, 2\ miles at lin 33, and 2|- miles at 1 in. 50; Maruia slope, 2-j miles at lin 33, and 1J miles at lin 15, and 1-2 miles comparatively level, to join Foy's line. This would be the shortest possible distance—29 miles from Eeefton. But these grades would make it impracticable for the heavy traffic likely to flow from the West Coast. I have therefore selected a line that I think will give grades sufficiently easy for ordinary traffic—namely, 1 in 50, which can be attained without encountering any engineering difficulties, the line being generally on better ground for benching than whore steeper grades would be. The grades on the Inangahua slope could be lin 60. As the sidling continues in the required direction, it would therefore not increase the total distance, but make the distance longer on the grade ; but on the Maruia slope it would be going out of the general route to grade it to lin 60. The distance at a grade of 1 in 50 on the Inangahua slope would be 6.1- miles, and Maruia 7J- miles to the mouth of the Rahu River, with 2| miles ascent lin 200 to Mr. Foy's station : total distance to Reefton, 34 miles. An alternative line, taking the Maruia and Grey watershed, 7-J miles from Mr. Foy's line to saddle, grade 1 in 50, or 5 miles at 1 in 35 and 2J- miles comparatively level —distance to Eeefton, 32 miles ; but this route is through very swampy country : whereas, by the mouth of the Eahu it would pass through some very fair agricultural country, and good timber —the first obtainable from the East Coast. " With respect to the saddle (which is 2,500 feet above the sea, or thereabouts) there is no advantage by tunnelling or "steeper grades, the narrowest place in the saddle being 25 chains, reducing the height 45 feet; the next, starting from the junction of the Eahu, peg 15,157 feet 85 chains, grade lin 80, to peg 7, Inangahua, taking 130 feet off the height and reducing the distance by 85 chains. A tunnel level from peg 15 reducing height 157 feet, but would not improve the grades more than the 85-chain tunnel. The same advantages would be obtained by a grade of lin 15 from peg 15, junction of Rahu to saddle, as by the 85-chain tunnel. " On the Inangahua slope an advantage in distance of 1| miles could be obtained by making a grade of lin 35 from peg 40 to junction of Otto. From here to Eeefton the ground is comparatively level, there being no particular engineering difficulties to encounter on either side of the river. About 1-^- miles below the Otto the hills on the south bank are precipitous and rocky for about half a mile, but commences considerably higher than where the grades would come. With this exception, the slips at
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Black's Point are the worst obstacles to overcome. On the whole, the south bank or Rainy Creek side would be preferable, as it would avoid all slips and river-crossings except the Otto and small stream. " With respect to the country which is opened up by this route, it has the advantage of being principally through land held by the Crown; tho Maruia Plains, and the greater portion of the Inangahua and Little Grey Valleys, lying a waste in consequence of the absence of the means of communication with the seaports, and cheap transport for the produce of the soil when cultivated. But this would be small in proportion to the timber, coal, and mineral with which nearly the whole'of the country along the line abounds; the timber of the llahu Valley and Saddle being about the first valuable timber available to the Amuri, a distance of 60 miles, or 100 miles to Amberley — both of which places obtain timber for building and fencing,- brought by sea to Christchurch. There is also a large deposit of coal of superior quality extending eastward from Rainy Creek. These, in conjunction with marble, limestone, antimony, &c, which exist in large quantities—exclusive of gold—would create a traffic that would make this line as remunerative as any in the colony, and that without materially increasing the length of main lines, or depriving other localities of similar advantages. "The comparative distances, scaled from.Mr. Blair's map, by the different routes shown would be as follows, starting from the ' Junction of Lines ' from Christchurch to Nelson: Christchurch to Nelson via G-reymouth, 300 miles; Christchurch to Nelson via Cannibal Gorge, 220 miles; by Cannibal Gorge and Reefton, 250 miles ; adding 50 miles to Greymouth, 300 miles. Line by Lake Brunner, Ahaura, Nelson Creek, and Arnold to Brunnerton, 90 miles; by Doubtful and Amuri Pass, 115 miles; by Cannibal Gorge, Ahaura, and Grey, 140 miles; by Cannibal Gorge and Reefton, 155 miles (which is the same distance as the Amuri Pass, adding 40 miles from Eeefton to Brunnerton). By using the Rahu Pass it reduces the distance from Christchurch to Nelson 50 miles; increasing the distance to Greymouth 40 miles, at the same time placing Westport within 160 miles of Christchurch. " I have, &c, " P. O. Caples, Esq., " Geo. J. Woolley, Chairman Inangahua County Council, Reefton." Surveyor. I wish to add that there are very large seams of antimony found in this district. The seams are 3 feet and 4 feet thick, and in some localities the veins are antimony pure.
Nelson", Satukdat, BTn Mat, 1880. The Commission received a deputation consisting of the following gentlemen: Ml 1. Pitt, M.H.E.; Mr. Acton Adams, M.H.E. ; Mr. Eiehmond, M.H.E.; Mr. J. E. Dodson, Mayor ; Mr. J. W. Barnicoat, Chairman of the Waimea County Council; and Mr. White, Chairman of the Wairnea Eoad Board. 2061. Mr. Pitt made the following statement: The deputation wish to call certain witnesses who will give information with regard to the quantity of land available for settlement, and the capabilities of the district which will be opened up by the proposed railway from Nelson to the West Coast. I wish also to place before the Commission a report of the Inland Communication Committee, published in 1873, when it was projected to construct this railway by a private company, who were to take land in exchange for the work they did. In considering that report we would ask the Commissioners to remember that the district since then has been further developed, and very valuable quartz-reefs are now being worked in the neighbourhood of Eeefton. The railway which was proposed to be constructed by a private company was intended to be of a much cheaper character than those which have been made by the Government. I also wish to call attention to a speech delivered by Mr. Curtis, the Chairman of the present Commission, in the House of Representatives, in October, 1878, when the Eailways Construction Bill was under consideration. It is reported in Hansard for 1878, Vol. XXX., page 104, that that speech calls attention to the fact that when the public works scheme was initiated the line we now advocate formed part of the trunk line of the colony. Although Ido not suppose that the Commissioners have to take into consideration the political aspect of the question, I may be allowed to mention that it would be considered in this district that Nelson was suffering a grave injustice if the Government failed to carry out the work. It was always represented by the Government that the line would be constructed as part of the main trunk line. When the Government of the day represented in 1874 that it would be so constructed, and when it was included in an Act of the Legislature, the scheme I have spoken of for the construction of the line by a private company was abandoned. Mr. William LiGHxroOT sworn and examined. 2062. The Chairman.'] Were you not formerly Superintendent of Public Works in the Province of Nelson ?—Yes, for six years. 2063. Are you well acquainted with the character of the country between Nelson and Greymouth ? —Tes ; I am well acquainted with the country as far as Eeefton and Westport. 2064. Are you able to give an approximate estimate of the quantity of land fit for agricultural purposes, or timber-land of value, on the line of the proposed railway as far as Eeefton ? —lt would require some time to make up a calculation of the whole quantity, but there are a great many thousand acres of valuable land. 2065. Can you say anything as to the character of the land either as regards gold or other minerals ?—-Between here and Eeefton there are several seams of coal. There is a very good seam of coal below the Owen, and another very good seam lower down. There is coal also at Eeefton. There is gold right* away down from the head of the Buller to the sea. There is also silver in the Buller Valley. 2066. Can you state the thickness of the coal-seams ?—The seam below the Owen is about 2 feet 3 inches thick. 2067. Do you know anything of coal in other parts of the Buller Valley ?—There is coal up the Maruia and Matakitaki Valleys.
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2068. Do you know anything of the quality of the coal ?—lt is very good coal indeed. I got a large block of it down here, 2 feet 3 inches thick by 12 inches, for the Exhibition. It is very good black coal. 20G9. Has the quality been scientifically ascertained ?—I do not think so. 2070. Is it of the same character as the coal obtained at the Grey and the Bailer ? —lt is very likethe Brunner coal. 2071. What distance from Nelson is the seam at the Owen ? —-It would be nearly 60 miles. 2072. From the occurrence of seams near the Owen and Matakitaki and Maruia, would you conclude that there is a coal field of important extent ?—I think so. At the time I saw the coal at the Owen I suggested to the Government that they should spend some money in opening it out, by putting a drive down rather far back from the terrace. 2073. Has anything been done by the Government or by private individuals in the way of exploration ?—I do not think so. While work was going on there we used to get coal for the purpose of sharpening our tools, and it proved to be very good coal for the purpose. There is likewise coal at the Hope, but it has never been worked. The surface of the coal there presents the appearance of a brown coal, but it might improve if the mine were opened up. 2074. Do you consider that the mining interest would be materially affected by railway communication ?—Certainly. The Buller Valley alone would give employment to thousands of men if they could get provisions cheap. Men can earn from 7s. to 10s. a day readily, but it costs more than that to get provisions to the spot. 2075. How do they get their provisions at present ?—They are taken on pack-horses at so much per pound. The cost of packing the goods is sometimes greater than the cost of the goods themselves. 2076. Where are the goods generally packed from? —They have to be packed right up to Matakitaki. I suppose there is yet a good deal of packing done to the Buller from Eoxhill. 2077. Do you know anything of the timber-land in the neighbourhood of Matakitaki ?—Tes ; good timber extends for a considerable distance up the valley. I cannot estimate the acreage, but the land there is principally bush-country. 2078. Mr, Olarhi] Are not roads opened sufficiently to the lower portion of the Buller to enable provisions for the miners to be taken by dray ?—Tou can take drays only as far as Longford. You cannot get across the principal rivers. 2079. Could the goods not be brought from Westport ? —They could be brought up in cargoboats much cheaper than by the road. 2080. After the goods leave the cargo-boats, could they be conveyed by drays ? —I do not think drays come by that road. The road is hardly yet fit for dray-traffic. 2081. In referring to agricultural land, can you say whether any portion of that is open land ?—■ There are large plains up at the head of the Maruia Kiver, and there is a good deal of level land about the mouth of the Maruia. A great deal of the bush has been burnt during the last few years; and there is a good deal of land about the head of the Matiri Eiver. 2082. What length of time would elapse before the land cleared of the bush could be brought tinder the plough ?—lt could be brought under the plough almost immediately after the bush was burnt off. The timber here has not the large tap-roots that some trees at Home have, and is easily taken up. 2083. How much would it cost to stump the land ?—-About £5 an acre. 2084. Generally speaking, what would be the class of goods carried by the line of railway ?— Timber; and of course, if coal were discovered, there would be a coal traffic. There would also be provisions for the miners. 2085. Would timber and coal be brought from any portion of the Buller Valley and Nelson for anything but local consumption ? —lt would be brought for export. 2086. What is the nearest point to Nelson of the coal-seams you speak of at the Hope?—Noi more than 40 or 50 miles. 2087. Do you think it would pay to bring coal that distance to export it ? —Tes. 2088. Mr. WrightJ\ Do you consider that the country you have been speaking of is an easy country for railwav construction ?—I would not call it an easy country ;it is not like the Canterbury country for railway-making. 2089. Have you any idea what the cost per mile would probably be ? —No. 2090. Do you know the Long Ford ?—Yes. 2091. Do you consider that the crossing of water 18 inches deep is any impediment for six- or eight-horse teams ?—No ; but very frequently, in times of flood, you cannot cross at Longford. When the snow is melting, although the weather may be fine in the Buller Valley, you cannot get across the river: it may be bank-high when there is no rain at all. When the snow-water is coming down from Mount Arthur, the Owen is almost impassable. 2092. You have spoken of the difficulty of getting provisions to Matakitaki owing to its being impossible to cross at Longford. How often in the year, on an average, would it be impassable ?— It may sometimes happen that you cannot cross for a month. 2093. What is the present cost of provisions at Matakitaki? —I cannot toll. At one time I believe the cost of packing was 6d. a pound. 2094. Would the construction of a railway along the Buller obviate the necessity of packing up the Matakitaki Valley ?—No ; because the Matakitaki runs almost at right angles to the Buller. But the railway would bring the provisions down to Hampden within easy reach of the Matakitaki Valley. 2095. Then to do away with the packing you would want a road? —There is a dray-road a short distance up the Valley. 2096. If there is a good road up the Matakitaki how is it they have to pack the goods ?—They cannot get the drays very far up the Valley. 2097. Then, whether the railway was constructed or not, you would still want a road up the Matakitaki ? —The present road might do, or, if not, a dray-road might be made. There would be no difficulty in makiDg a dray-road,
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2098. The railway would not in any way affect that ?—No. 2099. You say that it costs £5 an acre to stump black birch: what does it cost for felling ?— £1 7s. or£l 10s. 2100. Is there any chance of burning the timber when felled ?—-Yes. 2101. Would not the rainfall on the coast prevent burning ?—-No. The timber would have to lie for so many days after being felled. If it were allowed to lie for two months after being felled it would burn, and then stumping could go on at once. 2102. Would it not occupy probably one season ?—Yes, I suppose it would. 2103. In your opinion, would the laud be worth £6 10s. an acre after the timber had been stumped and burnt ?—Yes, and a great deal more than that. 2104. I refer to the land generally between Foxhill and Inangalma Junction, and not to any specially good piece ? —-Yes; I think the land would be worth the price you mentioned, if it were all cleared. 2105. Would you be prepared to purchase at that price ? —No, I should not; Ido not understand much about farming. 2103. Mr. Reid.] Where are the diggings in the Buller Valley?—-Between the Lyell andMaruia. The diggings are up the valleys. There are a good many miners up the Maruia. 2107. Have there been any other coal seams discovered besides those you have spoken of?— There are several seams on the north side of the Buller, opposite the Maruia. They are not very thick—several inches, perhaps. The seams have never been opened; they have simply been pegged off for mining purposes. 2108. Can you say whether there is any probability of a payable seam existing there ? —lt is an excellent coal; but it has not been tested so as to see what is its real worth. 2109. Are you acquainted with the character of the timber in the district through which the railway would pass ? —-Yes ; it consists of black birch, brown birch, rimu, and totara. There is a very good supply of timber. There is a great deal of black birch, which is the best in the country. 2110. Is that timber useful for bridges ? —Yes; it is the best black birch in the colony, and the beat timber for bridge-building. lam of opinion that if the railway were made it would promote settlement in the Buller Valley, and that merchandise and grain would be carried by the railway. 2111. Mr. Wright."] Do you think a seam of coal 2 feet 3 inches thick would be a profitable one to work ?—Yes, a seam of that thickness would pay : in fact, a seam of less thickness would pay. 2112. Could it be worked in competition with seams from 10 feet to 15 feet thick ? —No ; the expense would be much greater in proportion to the output. But it is probable that this seam would increase in thickness as it was worked. Its appearance would lead one to think that that would be the case. 2113. Mr. Reid.] What class of settlement would the railway induce in the Valley ?—Small farmers. 2114. Do you think the land is sufficiently good for that? —Yes ; the land is very good down the Buller. 2115. Mr. Clarlc] Do you think that grain could be grown in the Buller Valley so as to make it profitable to export it ? —I think so. The land has the appearance of being very excellent land. I do not know whether it is good grain-growing land. 2116. Do you know whether grain has been grown in patches to prove the capability of the soil for grain-growing?—Yes. 2117. What would be the approximate cost of coal from the Owen shipped at Nelson? —I think it could be put on board ship for a little over 20s. a ton. 2118. Mr. Beid.] What is the distance by rail?—Sixty miles. Mr. Jacques Ribet sworn and examined. 2119. The Chairman.] Do you reside in the Buller Valley? —Yes; in the neighbourhood of the Matakitaki. 2120. Do you cultivate the soil ?—Yes ; about forty acres. 2121. Have you raised any grain crops? —Yes. 2122. Do you find the land suitable for grain-growing ? —Yes ; it is very good. 2L23. What kind of grain have you grown ? —Wheat and oats. 2124. Was it open land or bush land?—lt had been bush, fern, and scrub land. 2125. Is there much land of the same character in that neighbourhood? —I cannot state the exact quantity. I have 300 acres myself. 2126. Do you consider that improved means of communication by road would lead to cultivation to any considerable extent ?—Yes; the bush would be cleared, and a number of people would settle on the land for grazing purposes. Ido not think they would settle for farming purposes, but they would for raising cattle. 2127. Is there much good timber land in that neighbourhood?—Yes; there is a large quantity of good marketable timber, such as totara, white pine, rimu, and birch. 2128. Do you know of the existence of coal in that part of the Valley?—l know there is coal there, but I do not know anything about it. 2129. Do you consider that the construction of a railway would have any important influence on gold-mining ?—lt would certainly make provisions cheaper than they are at present. 2130. Is there much mining going on in your immediate neighbourhood?—There are a great many miners in the Matakitaki, Maruia, and Buller Valleys : there are perhaps more than a couple of hundred. 2131. Do you think there is much ground which it would be profitable to work for gold-mining ? —There is sufficient ground for thousands of people, who could earn small wages, such as 7s. or Bs. a day. 2132. How is it that the number of miners engaged there is so small at present ? —Because provisions are so dear that they cannot work for the wages I have mentioned.
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2133. What is the canse of provisions being so dear ? —The expense of carriage. 2134. Can you say what the miners at present have to pay for the more important kinds of provisions ? —The price of flour is 30s. a hundredweight; butcher's meat is about the same as in Nelson —namely, 6d. per pound. 2135. Do you consider that these prices would be materially reduced if a railway were made ? — They would be reduced to a certain extent. 2136. Is there any quartz-mining going on in your neighbourhood ?—Not that I am aware of. 2137. Mr. Clark!] Can you give any estimate of the quantity of land in the neighbourhood of the Matakitaki ?—No. The land in the Buller Valley is very good for cattle-rearing, as it grows splendid grass. It is far better for that purpose than the land near Nelson. 2138. Tou have said that the bush would be cleared by the construction of a railway. In what manner would that be brought about ? —Many people would come to live in the Buller Valley if they could go to Nelson and return quickly. They will not live in the Valley now, in consequence of the time it takes to go up to town. At present it takes two days to go down to Nelson and two days to return to the Buller Valley. 2139. Can the district at present supply the demand at the nearest gold fields for dairy produce and meat ? —Not anything like it. A great quantity of cattle comes from Nelson every month to the Coast. 2140. Does not the difficulty of carrying provisions either from Nelson or Westport rather act as an inducement to settlement in the Buller Valley ? —lt does induce men of energy to settle there ; but of course many people who will not now settle in the Valley would do so if there was a railway. 2141. Mr. Wright.] Is the soil you are cropping better than the soil between the Hope and Foxhill ? —On the whole, it is a great deal better. 2142. What is the extent of the land of the same quality as that which you are cropping?—lt is 3 miles by 3 miles, or about 6,000 acres. 2143. Have you cleared any bush-land ?—Tes. 2144. "What does it cost to clear per acre ? —About 30s. an acre. I never cultivate bush-land; I lay it down in grass. It cost 30s. an acre for felling and burning. 2145. Do you sow grass-seed as soon as you have burnt ?—Tes. 2146. I understood you to say that you grow grain ?—Tes. 2147. Then you must have some land free from stumps ?—Tes ; I have ploughable land and bush-land. 2148. "Was the ploughable land free from timber ?—lt was covered with timber, scrub, and fern. 2149. Is there much more land in the same condition —that is to say, free from timber p—■ Very little. 2150. Do your 300 acres comprise nearly the whole of it ?—There is not such a big flat where I am living. The land is mixed—sometimes you come to a patch and bush, and then a patch of fern and scrub together. There is not much more of that sort of land besides what I possess. 2151. What is the cost of carriage from Nelson? —Twelve pounds per ton. The wheat that I grew ripened very well. I have grown it two years running, and in each season it ripened well. 2152. Mr. Beid.] What was the yield ?—Eorty bushels to the acre. I sowed six or seven acres in wheat each time. I have obtained forty to fifty bushels per acre of oats. It was a very good sample. 2153. What is the carrying capacity of your land in its natural state ? —I can keep 150 head of cattle on my 300 acres in its present state. 2154. What were its capabilities before you improved the land ?—I do not think it would carry anything. Ido not see what could live in fern-land, unless it was ploughed. 2155. Then you carry a beast to two acres? —Tes, on the bush-land; that means keeping them as stores ; in order to fatten them you have to draught them out. 2156. What is the cost of sowing grass-seed, and labour, in the unstumped bush-land ? —One pound an acre would cover it. I have grown root crops on my land, and they have succeeded very well. I got fifteen tons of potatoes to the acre. Mangold-wurtzels also succeeded very well. 2157. The Chairman.'] Do you know if there are any quartz-reef's in the vicinity of Matakitaki ? —■ I have heard of some. 2158. Is the land in the Matakitaki very good ?—lt is very good land for grass throughout the whole length of the Valley. It would make splendid dairy or grazing farms. 2159. Are there farmers in that valley ? —Tes; there are some who have cleared the land, and who live solely by it; they only crop for themselves. 2160. Do you know the quality of the timber in the big bush ?—Tes; it is brown and black birch, I believe it is good timber. 2161. Do you know the Hope Valley ?—Tes ; I have heard that there is coal there. Mr. Acton Adams, M.H.R., sworn and examined. 2162. The Chairman.'] Are you well acquainted with the country between Nelson and Greyrnouth? ' —Tes ; I have travelled through it frequently, and 1 know most of the residents. 2163. What is your general impression, from what you have seen, of the character of the country and its capabilities of supporting a population ? —My experience has been gained in this way: I have been through the country every autumn during the last seven or eight years. Last autumn I spent three weeks there. I have gained my acquaintance with the country by travelling through it on horseback, and stopping with the settlers, and by having business connection in Nelson with the settlers. I know most of what goes on in the Inangahua, Buller, and Grey Valleys. 2164. Do you think that the population would be considerably increased, or that land which is now unsaleable would become saleable, if a railway were taken through that country ?—I think that the population in connection with the land, and the quartz-reefs that extend from Murray Creek to the Lyell, would be immensely increased if they were able to carry their quartz-crushing machinery on tq the ground, and obtain provision for the miners, by means of a railway.
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2165. Do you think that easier access to that part of the country would lead to a larger investment of capital ?■ —I am sure that it would in connection with reefs. And as the reefs were developed there would be still greater increase of settlement all along the line. The valleys are sparsely settled at present. Clearing the bush is a slow process. Every mile or two you see settlers with small clearings, but very little has been done yet, because the cost of living is very great, and in these bush clearings it is almost impossible for the people to produce grain crops for some years to come. Therefore they arc dependent for flour, and almost the whole of their supplies, upon imported produce. They can raise cattle very rapidly. 2166. Can you say anything as to the character of the timber? —'There is a good deal of valuable timber in the bottoms of the valleys. There is a good deal about the Four-Biver Plain, near where Mr. Eibet lives. There is a large quantity of pine up the Matakitaki, and there is a lot of totara and pine in the Inangahua Valley. There are several belts of extremely good totara in the Grey Valley. The hills are covered with the ordinary birch bush. 2167. Do you think that timber land would acquire greater value if a railway were made there, and, if so, to what extent ?—Undoubtedly that would be the case. I think that the price paid for sawn timber at the mines is 30s. per 100 feet in many cases. That is simply the local consumption. The high price is owing to the difficulty of carrying the timber up and clown the valleys. 2168. Can you say anything with reference to the existence of coal in the Central Buller Valley ? ■ —I have heard a good deal about coal there, and I have seen some outcrops of coal between here and the Central Buller, but I do not know very much about them. I have seen far more of the coal in Murray Creek, in the neighbuorhood of Eeefton. There are now five coal mines in that neighbourhood, and I know them intimately. 2169. Do you know if any experiment or attempt has been made to work the coal in the Central Buller ?—No ; not to work the coal. 2170. Can you adduce any reason why, when the existence of good coal there has been established, no steps have been taken to ascertain either the thickness of the seams or the quality of the coal ? —ln the absence of a railway the coal, however good, would be practically valueless. Although labour is so very dear at Eeefton, and although the people there are living in the midst of a forest, the coal is supplied at 30s. a ton, and largely used. It would be hopeless to send coal for any distance by means of drays. 2171. 3£r. Wrir/ht.~\ You ha've spoken of bush-clearing as being a slow process. Do you think that a large population would be induced to settle on bush-land of the character of the bush between Foxhill and the Hope Junction ? —No, Ido not. That is the poorest piece of land along the whole line. The land in the Matakitaki and the Central Buller is very different. 2172. But the proposed railway would not pass through the Matakitaki Valley?—lt would pass at the mouth of the vailey. Ido not know whether you are aware that, although the Central Builer Valley is comparatively narrow, it has opening into it on the one side Matakitaki and Maruia Valleys, and on the other the Owen Valley and another ; and there is considerable land up the whole of these valleys. 2173. But the cheapening of timber at the mines would scarcely depend upon the construction of this railway, inasmuch as the timber is found along the whole length of the proposed line ? —I do not think there is any good sawing-timber in the immediate neighbourhood of the Inangahua Valley, nor is there any in the neighbourhood of Lyell Township. There is plenty of mining-timber, but not sawing-timber for building purposes. 2174. Can you state what has been the principal cause of the reduction of population in the two mining districts of Eeefton and Lyell?—Tes—-the very high rate of wages. Wages, until lately, were £4 a week at the Lyell and £3 10s. at Eeefton. I account for the reduction of the population in this way : At those rates of wages it did not pay to work the mines unless they produced an ounce of gold per ton. Many of the mines only produced 8 dwt. or 10 dwt. per ton. These mines have ceased working on account of the high rates of wages, which are consequent upon the high prices of provisions. If they could obtain miners, as they are obtained at the Thames, for 50s. a week, a great many of the mines which only yield from 8 dwt. to 10 dwt. to the ton would continue working. 2175. Considering the number of unemployed men throughout the colony at the present time, do you not think miners could be found to take less than £3 a week ? —No; they cannot be got on account of the high price of provisions. 2176. What does it cost a man to live there?—l believe it costs a man 30s. a week for his own support at the Lyell. They pay £40 per ton for getting machinery there from Westport, which is about 40 miles. 2177. Is that conveyed by boat or by the road ?—Mainly by boat. 2178. Mr. Clark.] Was that sum paid before there was any dray-road ? —That was paid about two years ago. 2179. Could not machinery be carried now for something like £12 or £15 per ton ? —No, not to the Lyell townships. Machinery is not readily carried by drays. Ido not mean to say that ordinary provisions could not be carried at £15. The cost of carriage from Reef ton to Greymouth averages from £8 to £10 per ton. Carriage to the Lyell is always about fifty per cent, dearer. 2180. Could not crushing-plant be divided into moderate weights for wagons?—Tes; but the stamper-boxes are the heaviest part. 2181. What would a stamper-box of five head of stampers weigh P— -1 do not know. 2182. You spoke of wages at Eeefton as being 70s. a week, or, rather, they have been reduced to £3 a week, and you have compared that with the rate prevailing at the Thames—namely, 50s. a week. Would the difference of 10s. a week in miners' wages make the reefs at Lyell and Eeefton unprofitable to work ?—Yes ; it makes a great deal of difference when a large number of men are employed. The Energetic Company at Eeefton keeps fifty men employed, and sometimes there are seventy men employed. Ten shillings a week would make a considerable difference. I think the difference in the wages is greater between the Thames and Eeefton than 10s.: I think the difference is folly £1 a week.
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2183. The rate at the Thames is about from 48s. to 545. a week. Can you form an estimate of the difference in the cost of winning and crushing quartz which the railway would make ? —There would be an immense difference in the cost of erecting the battery in the first instance. The cost of erecting batteries in Eeefton and Lyell has been ridiculous. Some companies have spent as much as £10,000 in putting up a battery, getting in water, erecting a steam-engine, and getting the mine ready for work. The Ajax Company spent £15,000, and I know of many companies that have spent £10,000; whereas the cost of putting up the same works, say on the beach at Nelson, would not exceed £2,000 or £3,000. 2184. Was that simply for wages ? —Wages and carriage—more especially carriage—and the difficulty of executing repairs, and filling up any omissions that might occur in forwarding the machinery, and remedying breakages. Until lately, if an important fracture occurred in a quartzbattery in Eeefton they had to send the fractured part down to Greymouth and back again, and in the meantime the mine was at a standstill. 2185. Cannot the parts which are liable to fracture be kept in duplicate ?—Tes ; the companies are only now learning by experience to do that. 2186. Cannot the timber required be cut on the spot ? —Not immediately on the spot. Any heavy timber that is required has to be sledged along the ground for some distance. 2187. The Oliairman.] What is your opinion as to the auriferous nature of the Buller Valley generally?—l have been told by a large number of residents that it is a poor man's diggings. Thousands of men could be employed right up the Buller Valley if they could only get " tucker " at ordinary rates. 2188. What, in your opinion, would be the effect of the construction of a railway through thfc Buller Valley to Greymouth—to be ultimately extended to Canterbury —on the country through whicL it would pass? —The effect on the Upper Buller, I think, would be the employment of many thousands of miners in working the banks of the rivers and creeks. It is all bush-country, and has only been partially prospected. The whole of the Buller Valley and part of the Matakitaki would be turned into farms which would grow hay, potatoes, and meat for the diggers ; but I do not think the land would grow grain to any extent. 2189. What is your opinion of the Inangahua Valley ? —There is a good deal of valuable land there. I have known land to be sold there for upwards of £10 an acre. It is very rich pasture-land. The whole of the land on the West Coast is far better pasture-land than that on the East Coast, because the climate is moister. It is essentially a grass-country. One acre is worth three acres on that side. 2190. Mr. Wriqkt.~] In your opinion this railway would be chiefly valuable as a means of developing the mining industry ? —-Yes ; and as a means of establishing settlers along the line. 2191. If constructed, do you think the railway would pay as well as the Nelson and Foxhill line ? ■ —A great deal better. Ido not think there is any comparison between the two. 2192. Have you any idea as to what would be the relative cost per mile?—That is rather a large question. Once the railway enters the Buller Valley—l do not care at what point —the cost would not be very heavy, except in the Lyell Gorge, where there is a long bridge to be made. Almost all the land belongs to the Crown, and the sleepers would cost but little, because they are on the spot. There are no gradients steeper than linso to Greymouth. I think the railway would only cost the average of £5,000 or £6,000 per mile. 2193. Mr. field.] Would not bridging be an expensive item ?—I am told that it would not be, because the smaller creeks would be bridged with birch timber, and the Buller Eiver would only be crossed once. The distance across the river is not very great, although it is a formidable river. There would be an expensive bridge at the Lyell, which would perhaps cost £10,000. 2194. Mr. W?-ii/ht.] Are you aware what margin of profit there now is on the Nelson and Eoxhill line ? —I am aware that it is a small margin, and that at the time the last returns were published the working expenses were a little over 80 percent, of the receipts. 2195. I mean profit on the capital invested?—lam not aware what that is. I only know that the line has paid the working expenses and something towards interest. Ido not consider that the line from Nelson to Foxhill is a profitable one ; but if it were continued through the country I am sure it would be profitable. 2196. If it is shown that the Nelson and Foxhill line is paying nothing towards interest on the capital invested, would you think it desirable to multiply investments of that nature throughout the colony?—No ; but I do not think the line through the Bulier Valley would be of the same nature as the Foxhill line. It opens up quite a different class of country. 2197. If it cost three times as much to construct, do you think there would be a reasonable chance of its paying working expenses and interest?—lf it did not cost more than twice as much I am sure it would pay working expenses, and I would take shares in it. Mr. G-eobge Lloyd sworn and examined. 2198. The Oh airman.'] Have you been a resident in the Buller Valley ? —Yes ; about 3 miles from the junction of the Matakitaki and the Buller. I have resided there on and off for fourteen years. 2199. Did you cultivate land? —Yes. I cleared the bush and sowed the land with grass and grazed cattle there. I had forty acres sown in one place, and a small clearing of ten or twelve acres in another place. 2200. What is the character of the land, and what crops does it produce ? —lt is first-class grazingland. 2201. Is there much land of the same sort in the immediate neighbourhood ?—Yes, there was a great deal of such land near where I was living. It was about 4 or 5 miles in length and a mile in width. That is up the Matakitaki Valley. There are other patches here and there farther up the Valley. 2202. Do you think the construction of a railway from Nelson would have the effect of increasing settlement in that district ?—Yes, lam certain of it. I should still be in the district myself if it had been a settled place ; but it is not likely settlers "will live there as it is at present. 17—E. 3.
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2203. Do you know anything about mining in that district ? —Tes; I liave been mining there, on and off, for the last fifteen years. I did a little mining, although I was farming as well ; and I never worked for less than 10s. a day in the district. I have made as much as £20 a week for a long time, in different claims. 2201. Do you think that if there were better means of communication the mining industry would be much stimulated? —Tes, lam certain of it. At present there is not much competition, and the prices of provisions are just what the dealers like to charge. Only thorough bushmen will drive packhorses up there. There is now a dray-road up the Buller, but it has only lately been constructed. I am speaking of the Maruia Valley and the Matakitaki Valley, which would derive great benefit from the railway, because people do not like to be a hundred miles from a town without any means of communication. 2205. Do you know the upper part of the Maruia Valley ? —I know the whole of it. There is some very good land on the Maruia Plain —as good as ever I saw. There are also high terraces, which are shingly, and only lit for cattle and sheep. "The Plain is about 23 or 25 miles in length, and a mile or two in width. It is all open land, with no timber except a clump here and there. About half the Plain is fit for ploughing. 2206. Do you think it would grow wheat? —I am certain it would. Mr. Moonlight has grown some splendid crops of wheat. 2207. Has all that land been sold? —I do not think so. Mr. Walker has picked a great deal of the best of it, but I think there is a good deal not bought yet. 2208. Do you know the extent of Mr. Walker's freehold ? —No ; but I know he has a good many thousand acres. 2209. Are there other freeholders there ? —Tes ; there is a good deal of freehold land along the Matakitaki in holdings of fifty and a hundred acres. There is a very good chance there for a poor man. if he could get a few acres of laud, because he could get enough gold to keep him. Tou can get gold anywhere you like to sink a hole ; but it is poor. If poor people went there, they could take up a piece of land, as I did, and dig for gold. When I got some money in that ~way, I used to lay it out on my land. When I saw that the district was getting no better in the way of communication, 1 sold my land, although I was doing well. 2210. Do you know anything of coal in. that neighbourhood?—l do not know of any particular place beyond the Owen and Maruia; but I know there is coal in all the creeks. The creek near my house used to bring down drift pieces of coal. 2211. Judging from the coal which you found in the various creeks, do you consider that there is an extensive coal field there ?—lt is natural to think so. I have seen it in big blocks in the creeks, and there are scores of creeks which no one has explored. 2212. Mr. Clarh^] Have not the difficulties you refer to in the way of packing provisions been to some extent removed by the construction of the road up the Buller Valley ?—So far they have. 2213. Would the construction of the railway remove the difficulties as regards packing over the other portion of the road? —The drawback is not exactly that people cannot live up there: people who come to settle down in that district would require to be able to get away in case of sickness; they would require to have a school and a doctor near them. Besides, in winter, if you get outside your own door you are up to your knees in mud. 2214. Have you ever stumped any portion of the land which you cleared ?—Tes, some of it. 2215. How long would it take a man to stump an acre ?—1 think a man would stump an acre in about a week. I have done it in less, but the stumps were rotten. It is unnecessary to stump the land. Grain-growing will never pay any one, but cattle will pay very well. I used to make good wages out of cattle. During the latter part of my stay in the district I was not obliged to do any digging at all. 2216. Could a man stump an acre a week if the timber were comparatively fresh—if it were only five years cut ?—I do not think so. 2217. How long would it take a man to clear off the stumps and burn them ? —lt varies very much. In some places it would take three weeks, while in others it would not take one. 2218. Do you think there is any land there upon which grain could be grown to advantage?— Tes. After the stumps rot away —that is, in about five or six years —they come out quite easily, as there are no roots in the ground. There is a great deal of land about the Matakitaki, near Hampden, which is as good wheat-growing land as I have seen. I have grown good wheat there myself. 2219. Do the roots of black birch rot in six years ?—Tou would have to cut the main roots. The fibres would then be rotten, and you could uproot them. 2220. Would the main roots which are left underground obstruct the plough? —Tou would have to cut them deep. As a rule the roots of birch trees run along the top of the ground. 2221. Mr. Wright.'} What prices did you get for fat stock ?—Prom 30s. to £2 per 100 lb.—that is, buying the whole beast. I used sometimes to kill the cattle myself and get a little more. 2222. Would not the bridging of the rivers promote settlement ?—lt would be better, but still that would be nothing as compared with a railway. 2223. Are you aware that, with the exception of 3 miles, there is a dray-track from Foxhill through to Eeefton ? —Tes ; I have been right through to Greymouth, and I know the whole of it. 2221. Do you not know that there are only 3 miles remaining in order to complete a continuous dray-track ? —The track from the Lyell is passable only now and again. Slips often come down, and it is sometimes open and sometimes closed. 2225. Is there no authority charged with the removal of slips ?—I believe men have been put on during the last few months to keep the road open. 2226. Tou have alluded to the disadvantage of residing in the district without a doctor or a school: is there not sufficient population in the district to support a doctor ? —No ; the population of the district consists mostly of single men. The few people who go there with families usually come away again.
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2227. Has no attempt ever been made to induce a doctor to settle in the district ?—I do not think so. Some doctors have made offers to go there if they could get assistance, but the idea was never carried out. 2228. Do you know that there is a school at Hampden?—-No; but there is one at Fern Flat. That, however, is 10 miles away from where I was located, and there are two rivers to cross. 2229. Mr. Reid.] In speaking of the cattle you raised, do you mean that you depended entirely on the grazing from forty acres to feed your cattle? —I had a run in the bush besides. 2230. Then you depended to some extent for a part of your income upon free grazing upon Government laud ? —There is not much of that now. There are too many settlers about for that. My own land was sufficient to keep my stock. I could keep a beast to the acre provided the land was stumped. Grass grows there better than anything. 2231. What was the character of your mining operations ? —Principally sluicing, and sometimes cradling. 2232. Do you think that district would support a considerable population who could make Bs. to 10s. a day at mining ?—Yes. 2233. Does it require any capital to start mining there? —It would require capital in the case of a man who did not understand mining. A man who understood mining would be able to get gold to start with, whether he had money or not. Even in the case of a man who had never done any mining, ho could learn in a month how to get sufficient gold to keep him. In one place where I was working I used to get silver amongst the gold. 2234. The Chairman.'] Have you heard of any quartz-reefs ? —Yes ; I have heard various reports about them. Several blocks of quartz with gold in them have been got at the Matakitaki, but no solid reef has been found showing gold. There are gold-workings almost all the way from the Owen Eiver right down to the mouth of the Buller. 2235. Are you aware whether Mr. George "Walker, who lives at the Maruia Plains, raises any considerable quantity of stock? —Yes ; he feeds a good many hundred head every year. He very often drives a mob of 300 head at a time. 223G. Have you been up the Maruia Yalley ? —Yes. 2237. Is there not a quantity of flat land there ? —Yes ; there are splendid flats there covered with white and red pine. I never saw better flats for grazing. 2238. Have you been up the Matiri and the Owen ? —I have never been very far up the Matiri, but I have been up to the head of the Owen Eiver. I know there is very good land up the Owen Eiver, but it is very cold. There are patches of scrub and open tussocky land. It is more like a run than anything else. 2239. What is the character of the timber in the Buller Valley ?—About Hampden it is very good. There is white pine, red pine, and a good deal of totara. There is also splendid birch. Ido not think the timber in the luangahua Valley is as good as the timber up the Matakitaki Valley. The most of the timber I saw up the Inangahua was birch. Mr. W. I\ Pogden" sworn and examined. 2240. The Chairman.] Have you resided in the Buller Valley ?— Yes. I used to be a dealer there ; and I also kept a hotel. I used to drive pack-horses from Foxhill, and deal in goods. It is ten years since I was driving there; but I have been keeping a publichouse on the main road during the last nine or ten years. At that time there was no dray-road, only a pack-road. 2241. Can you speak as to the quantity and quality of the timber there? —There are many miles of timber there of all kinds. All through the main Buller Valley there is abundance of timber, and also up the Matiri Valley and the Matakitaki Valley. Mr. Eric Oee sworn and examined. 2242. The Chairman.] Are you well acquainted with the country between Nelson and Greymouth ?—Yes ; I was farming in that part of the country for some time. My experience does not go further than the top of the Matakitaki Valley, and the junction of the Buller with the Owen. 2243. Can you say anything as to the occurrence of coal in the Owen Valley? —I examined two seams —one about 4 miles from the mouth. That was black coal. The stratum, instead of being on the level, pitches to an angle of about 38 degrees towards the hill, and the seam appeared to me to be something like 8 feet thick. On the upper dip it is only 2 feet 6 inches; but further down it is 8 feet. I think it is only an outcrop ; but there is no doubt in my mind, judging from the geological strata, that there is a large seam. Seven miles further up from this seam there is a brown coal, the seam being apparently 12 feet thick. It burns freely, but with a great deal of smoke. The black coal is splendid coal, "it might be called smithing coal; it is something like cannel coal. From the strata, I think the whole pitch is towards the north; and there are two seams, the upper seam being brown and the lower black coal. 2244. As far as you are aware, lias any attempt been made to work into the seams?—No. There is no apparent difficulty; but a railway "would have to be made up to the Buller, or through the saddle, which is rather more expensive than the other way. 2245. Is the coal in an easily-accessible place ? —Yes; you could run a tramway right into the seam. There is no difficulty whatever, although there is dense bush all round. 2246. Do you think it could be worked level-free?—l only made a cursory examination of it, and since this railway question has been raised I have not been able to go through. The railway is proposed to bo taken over Tophouse; but it appears to me that, if it were taken over the Motupiko Valley, it would be better. It is not in the main valley that you find the largest quantity of land, but in the branching valleys. You can scarcely go a mile up the route I suggest without finding a beautiful branching valley, where the best farming-land is, and especially the best grass-land. In my opinion, the line would pay very much better if taken up the Motupiko Valley. 2247. Mr. Wright,] What height above the bottom of the valley is the outcrop of black coal ?— The action of the water has brought out the seam, which is down at the bottom of the valley. The
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valley is wide enough for any purpose. I should say it is about three-quarters of a mile wide in most places. It is very good level land, with splendid bush. There is any amount of rimu, with the finest black birch. I have no doubt that there is a very extensive coal field in that neighbourhood. 22-13. Would not the mine be subject to flooding, owing to its dipping in from the stream level? —It would be necessary to dam it off. It is only a very small stream. 2249. Is the valley an easy ono to travel over?—Yes —and the soil is very good. It is mostly brown loam. 2250. If the railway went round by Tophouse, do you think there would he any traffic to support a line in that direction ?—Tes, when it goes as far as the Buller. There is about 38 miles of line, between Foxhill and the Buller, which would bring in very little revenue —the land there could not be c ultivated to any very great extent; but when the line gets to the Buller, there will be an immense trade from there. If the line goes through the Motupiko Valley, where there are a number of people settled on the land, it would pay better still, although Mr. Blair says the line would cost more. 2251. Would the line be shorter by the Motupiko Valley ? —I think it would be 12 miles shorter. 2252. Would the line be shorter by the Motueka Valley ? —I think it would be 12 miles shorter. Mr. Eochfort surveyed the line 7or 8 miles farther. That would make the gradient 50 to 55, instead of 35. The main part of the line would be from the Motueka Valley to Motupiko, which would be comparatively level. 2253. How many miles of unprofitable country would the railway pass over by that route, as against 35 miles by Tophouse ? —I think it would be 12 or 14 miles from Motupiko Valley to the mouth of the Hope, where it would join the other route. That would be very difficult, and I have no doubt that it would cost as much as £12,000 per mile ; but through Motupiko Valley it would not cost more than £6,500 ; and from Foxhill to Motueka, including the tunnel on Spooner's Range, it would come to something like £10,800 per mile. 2254. What has been your experience which enables you to estimate the cost of these works ?—I have been a surveyor in America, and I have also had to lay out lines, estimating the earthworks. I was likewise engaged in the Wanganui District, under the Provincial Government of Wellington. 2255. Mr. Olarlc.~\ How many settlers are there now in the Motueka Valley? —In the adjacent valleys and in the Motueka Valley there are something like 1,800 or 1,900. If this line were constructed, there would be no end to the number of poor men's diggings that would be opened up. The great drawback which has been experienced hitherto in working the gold fields has been the difficulty of getting goods and machinery over Spooner's Eange : the consequence is, that gold-mining operations have hitherto been confined to alluvial diggings. Mr. Tiiomas Mackay, Deputy Commissioner of Land Tax for the Nelson District, sworn and examined. 2256. The Chairman.'] I believe you are an engineer by profession ? —Yes. 2257. Are you acquainted with the country between Nelson and the Grey?—Yes. 2258. I believe you accompanied Mr. Oalcutt some years ago, when he was sent down by the Government to estimate the quantity and value of Crown lands which would be affected by the proposed railway ? —Yes. 2259. Did not Mr. Calcutt estimate the quantity of good forest-land at 130,000 acres? —He estimated the quantity of forest-land at 156,000 acres, of which two-thirds would be enhanced threefold in value bv a railwav. 2260. Did he not value the 156,000 acres, even in the absence of all means of communication, at 15s. an acre ?—Yes. ' 2261. Did he not estimate the quantity of open land in the hands of the Crown at 22,000 acres ? —Yes. 2262. What did he value that at, under the circumstances existing at the time ?—Twenty shillings an acre. 2263. Did he not say that there was a further quantity of 30,000 acres of inferior land, which would sell at 10s. an acre ? —Yes. 2264. Do you agree with Mr. Calcutt in his estimate of quantity, and also in his estimate of value of the land?- —-Yes. I had previously made a report on the subject myself to the Provincial Government ; and I think our reports very nearly agree, although we had no conversation on the subject. He arrived at his conclusions quite independently of any data that he could get from any one else. 2265. Do you think that good timber-land in the neighbourhood of the railway in the Matakitaki or Inangahua Valley would be worth more than 455. an acre ? —lt would be worth £10 an acre if there was a railway to it. It would be worth £10 an acre on the average, particularly within a short distance of the railway. 2266. Do you not think the open land would be increased in value by the railway ? —Yes. 2267. Is there not a quantity of hilly land covered with bush, which is not taken into this calculation at all ?—Yes; there is a good deal that would be fit for settlement: and it is used by some of the settlers at present, such as Mr. Moonlight and Mr. Walker, in the Maruia. Both those gentlemen use such land for cattle-grazing. 2268. Was such land taken into account by Mr. Calcutt in his calculation of the value of the land ?—No. 2269. Do you not think it would be worth something if a railway were constructed through the country?—A railway coming near any of these lands would no doubt enhance their value. 2270. Do you not think there would be some hundreds of thousands of acres which would probably be worth something like 10s. an acre ? —Yes; from ss. to 10s. an acre in the event of the railway being made. 2271. Can you say anything as to the existence of coal in the valley of the Buller, or any of its tributaries ?—The best seam of coal which I know of, and which a railway down the Buller Valley would cross, is immediately opposite the Maruia Eiver, not very far from Oxnam's. It is from 5 feet to 6 feet thick. Dp, Hector and myself examined it in the month of January, 1872.
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2272. "What is the quality o£ the coal ? —lt is very good. It is a transition coal, between good brown coal and true coal. It is better coal than the Reef ton coal. 2273. Would it be as good as Mount llochfort coal or Grey coal?—No; but it would be quite good enough for locomotive or household purposes. 2274. Do you know anything of the existence of coal in the Owen?—No. I have seen samples of it; but I have not seen it in situ. The samples I saw were, I consider, brown coal. There is brown coal also in the Hope. 2275. Have you any knowledge of the character of the gold-mining pursuits in the Buller Valley ? —My evidence upon that point would be very much, the same as that given by Mr. Lloyd and Mr. liibet. 2276. Mr. Clark.] Do you consider the estimate given by Mr. Calcutt regarding the increased value to be given to the timber-land by the construction of the railway to be much too low ?—He spoke of the whole 156,000 acres. 2277. I understand from his report that he estimates that two-thirds of it would be increased in value threefold ? —The value of the land in its natural state is put down at 10s. and 15s. an acre ; so that the increased value would be £1 10s. to £2 ss. an acre. 2278. Do you not consider that very much of that would be worth £10 an acre ?—Yes ; I think that a great deal of it would be worth £10 an acre. I think that one-third of the 156,000 acres would be worth £10 an acre. That land would be principally in the Inangahua and Buller Valleys and their tributaries. 2279. According to that, you estimate that 50,000 acres would bo worth more than what Mr. Calcutt estimates the value of the whole of the land at? —Yes. He has under-estimated it to a certain extent. He dealt generally with the whole of the kind. lam speaking now of the portion which would be convenient to railway communication, and on which the timber could be easily disposed of. I know that the timber there is very much finer than it is on land in many places in New Zealand for which £10 an acre is paid. As the timber forests of New Zealand are cut down, the timber in this district will become more valuable. 2280. But, speaking of the value of the timber, if a line were constructed within a comparatively short period, do you consider that any one carrying on the timber trade could deliver timber in New Zealand at the same price, over something like a distance of 80 or 100 miles, as that at which it could be delivered by water from many of the timber districts of this colony? —I do not think he could; but it all depends upon the distance over which the timber would have to be carried by water, as compared with the carriage by rail. 2281. But say that it was brought, for instance, from Queen Charlotte Sound or Pelorus Sound ?—I should say that the timber in Queen Charlotte Sound and Pelorus Sound would soon be exhausted; and when a tramway is laid to the liai Valley, the river running through which is a tributary of the Pelorus, I think it will be all gone in two or three years. Every year adds to the value of good timber in the Buller Valley. 2282. Then the estimate of value which you put upon timber in the Buller Valley is based upon the .rapid consumption of all the more accessible forests ? —Yes, to a great extent. It must come into use as soon as there is a means of getting it into the market. The timber is very valuable, consisting as it does of very sound birch, totara, black pine, and rimu. 2283. But until other forests are exhausted, would it not be better to leave it as it is at present? —It would be simply a matter of carriage. It would be a very good district for providing railway sleepers. 2284. What is the distance from Foxhill by the proposed railway route via Eoundell to the Hope ? —About 36 miles. 2285. What is the quality of the land along that line ? —lt is not very good. Portions of it would be fit for settlement; but that would not be the case generally speaking. 2286. Would you recommend it as a field for settlement while better land remains unoccupied ? —I do not think I would. 2287. Then for a long time there will be no probability of a population being settled there ? —lt is mostly purchased land. ■ 2288. Purchased at what price ?—I believe it was sold at from ss. to 10s. an acre. 2289. Is not the natural outlet for all the Buller Valley at Westport ? —No. Nelson supplies the Buller Valley dowii to within a short distance of the Lyell. 2290. Has that not been owing to the absence of a good road from Westport upwards ?—I do not think so. They have had water communication up to the Lyell for many years. Nelson is really the present source of supply for all that district. 2291. What sized vessels can enter Westport?—Vessels drawing 10 or 12 feet. 2292. Is that the depth on the bar at low water ? —The depth at low water, spring-tides, is less than that; but I have got 16 feet of water at high tides. The average, I dare say, is 14 feet at high water. The bar is a very fine one —very much better than the Hokitika or Grey bar. 2293. What has been expended by the Government at Westport with the view of working the Westport coal fields ?—ln round numbers I should say about £150,000 ; perhaps more. 2294. What is the present position of the coal fields ? —There are three companies at work. One company has spent a large sum —nearly £30,000 —in providing the necessary appliances in the shape of inclines, tramways, and so forth, to connect with the Westport-Ngakawau line, in order to bring the coal to a place of shipment. 2295. Have they turned out any quantity of coal yet ? —No. 2296. Is there any reasonable expectation of their doing so ?—Yes. They would have done so before now were it not for a thunderstorm which damaged a good portion of their works. 2297. In vessels of what tonnage do they expect to ship the coal ? —They would get steam-colliers carrying 500 tons. 2298. Then, in competition with Westport, do you think any of the coal which you have spoken of as existing in the upper part of the Buller Valley is likely to bo worked for export ? —lt would never come down to the Buller to be exported, but there would be a local consumption, or it might bo brought into Nelson overland.
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2299. Would it be of much value for local consumption while the country is covered with forest ? —Not very much. 2300. You have spoken of an enormous quantity of available timber which I think you valued at £10 an acre : where do you expect a market would be found for that timber if it were made accessible ?—lt could be exported elsewhere from Nelson. For instance, it could be sent to Wellington, where there is a very large quantity of timber imported from, the Sounds, and it could be also sent to other parts of the colony where timber is in demand. 2301. Are you aware that at the present time the saw-mills throughout the colony are more or less at a standstill ? —I am quite aware that at present timber-sawing is not a very paying trade. 2302. Are you aware that in the majority of cases they have a large accumulation of sawn timber on hand ? —Yes ; but the fact remains that I know £10 an acre is paid for timber-land, and not very choice timber either. 2303. In what position is that timber as regards water communication ?—For instance, in the Sounds, and between Picton and Blenheim. 2304. Where it is easily accessible ? —Yes, comparatively easy ; but it is very poor. 2305. How long since was that sum paid? —Within the last two or three years. I know that in this district, 15 miles from Nelson, the Maoris are getting £10 an acre from their timber-land. That is at Wakapuaka, and it has all to be carted. 2306. Do you say that they are now receiving £10 an acre? —Yes. 2307. Where is the market for that timber?—The local market in Nelson. 2308. Have you any idea of the annual consumption ?—No. 2309. Can you state what the acreage of this Maori bush amounts to ? —There is about 300 or 400 acres of good timber in it. 2310. And has that been sold at £10 an acre ?—No ; but it is gradually being sold at £10 an acre. 2311. How much of it at a time ?—Two or three acres at a time. The settlers about there purchase it.; and they simply purchase the timber, without buying the freehold. Sometimes the Maoris get a royaltjr for the timber, which, in some cases, is equal to £10 an acre. 2312. Mr. Reid.~] When you say that a great deal of the land would be worth £10 an acre, do you mean that that would be the value of the timber alone ?—lt would be the value of both the timber and the land together. 2313. Do you place any value on the land for agriculture?—Certainly. If the timber on it were cut and cleared away, it would make first-class grazing-land; and if it were cleared of stumps, it would be tit for grain-crops. Where we have good black pine, totara, or rimu, we have good iand. 2314. The Chairman.^ You have spoken of land between Foxhill and the Eoundell having been purchased at from ss. to 10s. an acre: are you not aware that a great deal of the land in the Amuri, which is the best land in the province, was purchased for ss. an acre ? —Yes. 2315. Do you think you could buy the land between Foxhill and the Eoundell for ss. an acre ?— I do not think so. 2316. Mr. Wright.~\ Have any instances come under your notice in which land has been purchased within a few miles of Nelson at 10s. an acre, and which still remains unprofitable or worthless, except as a sheep-run ? —I do not know of any land now that can be bought for 10s. an acre. 2317. Are there any tracts of land within a few miles of Nelson which were purchased many years since for 10s. an acre, and which still remain in a state of nature ? —Yes ; but I do not think that land could now be purchased for 10s. an acre. 2318. And is any of that land within easy access of the Nelson-Foxhill Railway? —There is a great deal of land within easy access of the railway which has never been improved, except that some surface-sowing has been done, or the timber cut down; but, taking it altogether, Ido not think it could be got for 10s. an acre. 2319. Do 3'ou know whether any attempts have been made to cultivate that land ? —Yes; there have been attempts made in many cases, particularly in the valley portions of the land; but no attempt has been made to plough the hill portions. The}' burn off the fern and sow'grasses. 2320. It has not been found profitable to cultivate it ? —Certainly not to plough it. There are isolated cases in which they have ploughed a good deal of the land, and where it is worth ploughing. 2321. Is the land from Foxhill to Tophouso what you would class as agricultural or pastoral land ? —A portion of it can be used for agriculture here and there ; but it is principally pastoral land. 2322. Are the agricultural portions large or small ? —They are small. 2323. Has surface-sowing on the fern-hills been successful?—Yes, where the fern has been burnt, and the land stocked properly. If sheep and cattle are not put on the land after the fern is burnt, and English grasses sown, it reverts back to fern. 2324. I am now speaking of the watershed of the Motupiko Valley and round Nelson : has surface sowing been successful ?—Yes, under the conditions I have mentioned. Some of the land has reverted to fern, no doubt; but that is because it has not been utilized. 2325. Have the conditions you have mentioned obtained in more than one or two isolated cases ? ■ —In several cases. Two or three of the runs have increased and improved their stock; so that they must have got more grass than they had at first. 2326. How many sheep do they carry per acre ?—lt is five or six years since I was over that part of the country. 2327. What authority have you for saying that they have increased and improved their stock ? — From returns, and from what I have heard one or two of the runholders saying. For instance, there is the Gordon Downs run, in the Motueka Valley. That I know has been improved. It covers a large portion of the country over which the line would go, round by Tophouse. 2328. Can you state the acreage of that run? —Freehold, 6,500 acres; Crown leasehold, 8,700 acres : total, 15,200 acres. 2329. What number of sheep does it carry ?—Four thousand.
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2330. Has not that improvement in the carrying capacity been the result of the improvement of the valleys rather than the hills? —I think it has been due to the improvement of both : perhaps more to the improvement of the valleys than the hills; but nevertheless the hills have been improved as well. 2331. During how many years has this process of surface-sowing and other improvement been going on ?—I do not know when the run was bought originally. I suppose it was over twenty years ago. Mr. "William Stone, General Manager, Nelson and Foxhill Railway, sworn and examined. 2332. Mr. Wright.] Will you state what is the average number of passengers per train between Nelson and Foxhill ? —For the nine months ending 31st March there were 8,934 first-class passengers and 44,161 second-class passengers. 2333. Are these both single and return ? —The return tickets are counted as two passengers. The money-value is £3,457 3s. 6d. for both classes. There are season tickets to be added to that number. The proportion of season tickets is included in the number I have given, and the value is £183 14s. 9d. 2334. That represents nearly 200 passengers per day ? —Yes. 2335. Can you give the tonnage of the goods traffic?—Minerals, 3,270 tons; timber, 3,200 tons; grain, 599 tons ; wool, 125 tons; and general merchandise, 1,646 tons :or about 30 tons a day. 2336. Do you find it necessary to keep more than one engine running for this traffic ? —Yes ; one engine could not do it. 2337. What is the maximum number of passengers travelling on Saturday ?—From twice to three times the average —from 400 to 500, I should think. 2338. What proportion of these are represented by school-children ? —There are thirty to forty school-children daily. That is from all stations. I count the school-children as single tickets. If the number of journeys made by the school-children were reckoned in the same manner as for ordinary passengers, they would represent about 8 per cent, of the total number of travellers. 2339. Would not the traffic between Nelson and Foxhill be fairly served by two trains a day throughout the week ?—Not at the end of the week. At the commencement of the week two trains are sufficient; but when you get towards the middle of the week there are more goods coming in, and we require two trains. We often have to run out to Stoke on Saturday to bring in goods that we cannot bring in when the passenger train is heavy. We then bring in only goods on the special run. That is in addition to the extra passenger train. 2340. Is it necessary to run three trains on Wednesdays or Saturdays to carry 400 or 500 passengers ? —I do not think we should get the same number of passengers if we did not run those trains. 2341. What class of the population makes up the bulk of these passengers?—Passengers travelling for pleasure, principally on Wednesdays. 2342. You are aware, I presume, that the profit on this line represents only !.•§• per cent, on the capital expended? —I believe that is about the amount. 2343. That is without any allowance for depreciation ? —Yes. 2344. Can you suggest any means by which, the line could be made more profitable ?—The only thing would be to slightly increase the rates. 2345. Have you formed any estimate of the amount that should be debited to wear and tear ?— I should think about 1 per cent, on the cost of construction would cover it. 2346. So that practically this section of the railway merely pays working expenses and depreciation ? —Yes, about that. 2347. Leaving no margin for interest on the capital cost ? —Yes. 2348. Mr. Clark.'] Do you consider that the 6-miles extension from Belgrove to Wai Iti would increase the receipts in proportion to the expense of constructing that section ? —I do not think it would do more than cover working expenses. 2349. Will not the 3-miles extension to Belgrove serve all the timber district there, so that all the additional traffic would be derived from the settlers in the Wai Iti Valley ? —Yes, unless there are more saw-mills started. 2350. Is there timber in the Wai Iti Valley beyond Belgrove ? —Yes, I believe there is. 2351. Would not the extension of the railway to Belgrove enable the sawmillers to bring their timber to the railway almost as well as if the railway were extended for the additional 6 miles ?—They would be placed at a disadvantage in competing with the Belgrove District through having to pay an extra distance of cartage. 2352. But not sufficient to prevent them from cutting the timber ?—I do not think so. 2353. Therefore the extension w rould not add to the timber-carriage along the line ? —No. 2354. Mr. Reid.] Is there any farming carried on through and beyond the 6-miles extension ? — I think there is nothing but sheep-farming. 2355. You do not think that, on the whole, the extension of 6 miles would add to the profitable character of the line in any way?—No. 2356. Mr. Wright.] Are the saw-mills in the district now in full work?—JSTo, they are doing very little. 2357. Is there any reasonable prospect of more saw-mills being erected? —Not unless there is a greater demand for timber in other districts of the colony. Daring the last twelve months I do not think a single board has been exported from Nelson. During the previous twelve months a considerable quantity was exported. 2358. Has the goods traffic generally increased during the twelve months ?—No ; it has fallen off slightly. 2359. State to what extent it has fallen off, and also the principal items upon which the falling-off has occurred ?—Timber has fallen off 485 tons, or 20 per cent.; grain, about 50 per cent. In minerals there is an increase of 1,000 tons. I believe a portion of that increase is due to carrying permanentway material.
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2360. Do rails come under the head of minerals ? —No ; I think the increase is principally in firewood. Rails would come under the head of general merchandise, in which there is an increase of 200 tons. 2361. Is firewood generally classed as minerals ?—Several things are brought under one class. "We have only minerals such as coal, and other things are brought under the class of minerals and under the head of ordinary merchandise. We have only two classes. There is a slight increase in wool —of 13 tons. 2362. Striking out the permanent-way materials, has there been any increase in the general merchandise ?• —No ; it is about equal. 2363. You have stated that you think the 6-miles extension beyond Belgrove would pay working expenses ? —Yes. 2364. What would constitute the traffic on that extension ?—I am assuming that timber would come down. 2365. That is based entirely on the assumption that other saw-mills would be started ? —Yes. 2366. What population is there in the valley beyond Belgrove? —I cannot say. 2367. Are there twenty settlers there ?—I am not acquainted with the valley beyond Belgrove. I have only been a short distance beyond Belgrove. 2368. Then, in point of fact, you are not in a position to say that there would be any traffic ? —- Not from actual observation. I have formed my opinion from inquiries 1 have made. 2369. Which refer simply to the extension of the saw-mill business ?—Yes. 2370. Mr. Glark7\ Do you take into consideration in your estimate that pleasure-parties would probably go on to the end of the line ? —Yes. Mr. Johjst G-eoege Blackett, Resident Engineer for Nelson and Marlborough, sworn and examined. 2371. Mr. Wright.'] Do you know the country between I'oxhill, Tophouse, and the Hope ? —■ Between Eoxhill and Tophouse I am well acquainted with the country; but lam not well acquainted with the country between Tophouse and the Hope. 2372. Have you prepared any estimate of the cost of making a railway from Eoxhill to Tophouse? —I have prepared an estimate, based on the first 6 miles from Belgrove. In round numbers that estimate amounted to £35,000 for formation only. 2373. And is your estimate for the entire length greater or less per mile ?—I do not think it will be reduced. I think it will be a fair average. 2374. Do you think the first 6 miles afford a fair average of the character of the work throughout ? —Yes. 2375. What is the distance from Foxhill to Tophouse ? —About 30 miles. 2376. Can you state what the general cost will bo of the permanent way and buildings over and above the formation ?—I am afraid I cannot. I believe the permanent way will cost about £800 per mile for laying and ballasting, including sidings, and excluding the cost of rails and sleepers. 2377. Are you not able to state the average cost of rails and sleepers per mile ? —I presume that rails would cost about £500 per mile, and sleepers between £200 and £300 per mile. The cost of station-buildings on the extension from Foxhill would be almost nil. It would perhaps amount to £1,000 for 30 miles. 2378. Is that based on the assumption that there would be no traffic ?—No ; but there would be very little traffic. 2379. Taking your figures for earthworks and permanent way, the cost per mile would be about £7,500 for 30 miles ?—I do not think it will be less. 2380. From your knowledge of the country, do you think there will be traffic on that length to pay working expenses ? —I think it is very doubtful.
BlehheiMj Tuesday, 11th May, 1880. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of Mr. A. P. Seymour, M.H.E., Captain Kenny, M.H.E., Messrs. A. G. Fell, C. Goulter, J. Ward, and J. E. Hodson. Mr. H. G-. Ci/AHK, Commissioner of Crown Lands for the District of Marlborough, sworn and examined. 2381. The Chairman.'] How long have you held your present office ?—About eight months. I was Chief Surveyor for taany years previously. 2382. Can you state whether or not the land, for the most part, through which the proposed railway line from Blenheim to Awatere will run has been alienated from the Crown ? —The railway will run through freehold land the whole way. 2383. Is it for the greater part open country ? —-Yes. 2384. Is it generally of a level character, and fit for agriculture ?—I am not acquainted with that part of the country at all. During the time I was Chief Surveyor, my duties were confined to the office, and most of the surveys there were finished. I produce a schedule of the approximate areas of land suitable for agricultural settlement bordering on the coast-line between the Wairau Plains and Conway Kiver, which is as follows : —
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2385. Does not that include the whole of the land in the Conway ?—Yes—between the Wairau Plains and the Conway River. 2386. Can you state what proportion of that land is within the proposed extension of the railway from Blenheim to the Awatere ? —This is supposed to be an estimate of all the land which will be opened up by that line. 2387. What is the distance between Blenheim and the mouth of the Conway ?—A hundred and thirty-five miles. 2388. Is not the proposed extension to the Awatere only 23 miles in length?—Thereabouts, I think. 2389. Taking that particular section of the line, can you estimate the quantity of land which will be immediately opened up by it ?—The Wakefield Downs District, which was surveyed by the New Zealand Company, comprises about 23,250 acres. 2390. What is the exact acreage that will be affected by the proposed extension of the railway to Awatere? —The total area is 41,900 acres, including flat land and ploughable hilly land. The flat land amounts to 30,000 acres, which would leave 11,912 acres of low ploughable hills. 2391. Is the whole of that land open country, or is any of it bush? —The whole of it is open country. 2392. At present, I presume, it is used as pastoral country ?—Yes, nearly the whole of it. There are some small cultivations. 2393. Can you name any source of traffic for the railway, if made to the Awatere Valley, apart from agricultural land ? Would there be any other kind of produce ? —No ; there would simply be agricultural produce. 2391. Mr. Iteid."] Does the proposed line run through the centre of the 41,900 acres which you have mentioned ? —lf taken on to the plain it will do so. Mr. Austin Ward, surveyor, sworn and examined. 2395. The Chairman."] Are you acquainted with the country through which the proposed line from Blenheim to Awatere will run? —Yes ; I have made a good many surveys through that country. 2396. What is the character of the country with a view to its being occupied for agricultural purposes ?—lt is exactly as described by Mr. Clark : about two-thirds of it is flat, and the rest hilly. 2397. Have you any knowledge of the general character of the soil ? —I know three or four places where there has been a little farming; and the crops have been very good indeed. Wheat has been grown there ; but Ido not know what acreage has been cropped in wheat. On Dr. Renwick's station a considerable quantity of oats has been grown : I should say from 200 to 300 acres. The result was a very large crop, although I cannot state the exact quantity. 2398. Do you consider that a large proportion of the land which would be opened up by the line would be of the same character ?■ —Yes. It would be better on the other side of the river. 2399. The remainder of the land, I suppose, is useful for pastoral purposes ?—'Yes ; it is very good pastoral land indeed: in fact, we usually say that it is the best piece of land between here and Christchurch. 2400. In the event of a railway being constructed, can you point out any other source of probable traffic beyond agricultural produce ? —I think there would be a good deal of wool. 2401. Mr. Wright.'] Can you say what is the present market value of the land you refer to between Blenheim and Awatere ? —I should think it would be worth £10 an acre in the flats. 2402. Who are the principal owners of the property?—Mr. Beaumont, the trustees of the Redwood family, the executors of the late Dr. Renwick; and Major Richmond is a considerable owner of land on the other side of the river. 2403. Is there any considerable number of small freeholders ?—-Very few. 2404. Mr. Clark.] Can you say w-hat proportion of the 15-miles extension to the Awatere River passes through unproductive land, which would not be fit for settlement ? —About 7 miles. The hilly land lies about the middle of the line. 2405. In the event of the 15-miles section being completed, is there any other part of the country which would materially contribute to the traffic on the line in addition to the number of acres mentioned as being opened up by the line ?—Yes. From the districts farther up the Awatere River a great deal of wool would come this way. 18—E. 3.
Locality. Level aud comparatively level. Low Hills (fit for plough). Total. fWakefield Downs Vernon Run S Do. (Atkinson's) ... "Ss -j Upton Downs J* I Starborough Bun Do. (Stephen's) Do. (Newcome's) Ilaxbourne Woodside Kaikoura Suburban and Kincaid,., Swyncombe Run Green Hills Run Waipapa Run Woodbank Run Amuri 1! 1 u ff Run Ferm'ekurst Run Acres. 25,600 1,900 500 1,000 1,000 10,000 350 21,500 3,200 6,115 1,000 1,100 1,200 1,200 Acres. 1,000 500 500 5,000 1,190 3,722 10,000 700 780 2,800 4,765 Acres. 25,600 1,000 2,400 1,000 6,000 1,190 4,722 20,000 1,050 22,280 6,000 10,880 1,000 1,100 1,800 1,200 600 Totals 75,665 31,557 107,222
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2406. The Chairman.'] What is the quality of the soil which has been described to the Commission as capable of being farmed ? —The greater part of it is good stiff clay bottom, with a very good top, which grows large tussocks. 2407. Would it grow wheat-crops ? —Tes. I consider it would be a very good grain-growing soil. 2408. Why has it not been farmed up to the present time P —Because it has been in the hands of runholders, who use it for pastoral purposes only. 2409. Would not the runholders let it out in farms if they had the means of doing so ? —Owing to the difficulty of transit, there is no means of getting produce away. 2410. What is the character of the present road ?—lt is a very bad one. There is a high saddle to cross, with gradients of about 1 in 6 over the worst of it. 2411. How many horses does it take to draw a load of wool there ? —Usually about four horses are put in to draw a load of eight or ten bales. 2412. If the line were carried as far as the Awatere River, would it not open up the district known as the Wakefield Downs for farming purposes? —Tes. It would also open up a good deal of the Flaxbourne District. In order to open up the whole of the Flaxbourne District, the line would have to be extended about 35 miles from Blenheim. That would carry it to about the tire. 2413. Is the land of the same description all through?—lt is more hilly, consisting of low downs, in the Flaxbourne District. It is far better for wheat-grow'ing than even the Awatere. It is a somewhat cold soil, but it is better for wheat-growing. I believe the schedule put in by Mr. Clark of the land Jikely to be opened up by the railway is correct. 2414. Is the wool from the Flaxb'ourne District brought to the Blenheim side? —No; it goes by sea. 2415. What quantity is produced there ?—Between 700 and 800 bales. 2416. Is there any limestone in that district ? —There is a great deal of it about Flaxbourne. The ranges are all limestone. 2417. Mr. Wright.] What are the facilities for shipping from Awatere ? —There are no facilities at all. They tried it several times. It is an open roadstead, with a low shore. 2418. In speaking of a 30-miles extension as necessary for serving the Flaxbourne District, are you not taking in the extremity of the Flaxbourne District? —Tes ; 35 miles would go right through the available land. 2419. So that a less length would practically open up the district for agriculture?- —Yes. 2420. Mr. Reid.] Tou speak of the Flaxbourne soil as colder than the Awatere land, but as being better for wheat-growing. As a matter of fact, does not wheat-growing require a warm soil? —We usually say so. Wheat has been grown at Flaxbourne, and has done very well. Perhaps I used the term " colder" incorrectly. The soil in the district is black soil on the top, with a stiff clay bottom. 2421. Mr. Clarle,] What length of line would be required to open up the whole quantity of land mentioned by Mr. Clark in the schedule ? —One hundred and thirty-five miles would be required to go to the end of the acreage which he has given ; but the greater part of it lies at this end. 2422. If the line were carried as far as the Flaxbourne River, would it practically serve the Flatbourne District? —Tes, the whole of it. 2423. Can you mention approximately what that length w rould be ?—About 26 miles. Mr. A. Gr. Fell sworn and examined. 2424. The Chairman.'] Can you give the Commission any information with respect to the proposed railway line to Awatere ? —I have a return showing the quantity of wool that went from the Awatere last year. The amount that went from Awatere proper was 2,400 bales. Then there is the Flaxbourne wool, which was shipped from the coast, and which is close upon 800 bales. If the railway only runs into the Awatere Valley it is very questionable whether the wool from Flaxbourne would come over the line ; but if the railway goes to the Flaxbourne flats I am certain the wool would come this way. The same remark would apply to any grain which might be grown in the Flaxbourne District. 2425. I presume all the wool produced in the Awatere comes to Blenheim ? —The whole of it, with the exception of what is produced on the two top runs. Owing to the want of a road that wool went round the other way. The road is now being made through to Awatere. 2426. Mr. Wricjht.] Can you say what number of settlers are now living in the Flaxbourne District ? —The Flaxbourne Station is all owned by Sir Charles Clifford and Mr. Weld. There are no settlers. 2427. Is there no agriculture going on at all ?—No.. 2428. Is the rabbit nuisance very bad in that district ?—At Flaxbourne there are very few rabbits. At Awatero there are very many more. At Flaxbourne no steps are taken to destroy them. The manager of the Flaxbourne Station, in a letter to me, says that he estimates the area of agricultural land as one-sixth of the property —that is, about 15jOOO acres. 2429. Do you think it probable that the land would be sold to agricultural settlers if the railway were carried through? —The letter of the manager, to which I have already referred, says : " As far as I know the intentions of Sir Charles Clifford and Mr. Weld with, regard to the property, they wish to lay it off in farms, to let as soon as they consider the time has arrived for doing so. This will hardly be, I suppose, until there is a fair prospect of a railway." 2430. Not to sell ? —He does not say so ; but they very nearly came to terms last year with some Canterbury farmers. However, they saw no means of getting their produce away ;so they went away again. 2431. Mr. Clarh.~\ What is the approximate population of the Awatere District ?—ln shearingtime it is numerous ; at other times it is very small. There are eleven large stations there, and sis or eight small holdings. Mr. Cyetts GtOTTltee, surveyor, sworn and examined. '2432. The Chairman.'] Did you make the original survey of the Wakefield Downs? —I surveyed the portion laid out for the New Zealand Company.
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2433. Can you tell the Commission what is the character of the greater part of the land ?—The land is all very good. At the time of the survey it was considered the best land laid out for the Company. It is mostly tussocky land. . 2434? Is it suitable for agricultural purposes —for grain-crops ? —Nearly the whole of it is very good for agricultural purposes : the whole of the fiats are good. There may be some small stony flats near the river, but they are very small in amount. The Awatcre Flat itself is first-class soil, and there are long undulating downs adjoining it. 2435. Is there any other part of the district which would be opened up by the proposed railway to the Awatere upon which you can offer evidence ? —lt all depends upon the length of the line. The FJaxbourne land will be opened more or less as the line is carried out. Then again, in respect to the Fairfield Downs, in the upper portion of the Awatere, as well as to the stations in the lower part of the Awatere, the whole of the produce of the district would be brought down by the railway. Iu speaking of the soil, I speak as a practical farmer. I farm a large lot of land myself. A great deal of the low hills can be readily cultivated. 2436. Is not the greater part of the land in private hands ? —Yes, it is all in private hands. 2437. Do you think the effect of the construction of the railway will be to add largely to the population?—l think it would. The owners of the Burnham property are only waiting for the opening-up of the district by means of a road or railway to sell the whole of that property, and I am told by others that they would do the same. Mr. Beaumont has expressed himself to that effect. Dr. Eenwick also said so before his death ; but his property has now passed into the hands of trustees. 2438. Then you think that the present landowners would be willing to cut up their properties, and, either by selling them or letting them, put the land into a position to be brought into cultivation ? —It is very certain that no one would hold land and run sheep on it if he could either let it or sell it to greater advantage. 2439. Mr. Meid.~] Can you say what yields of the different kinds of grain you have had per acre ? —My farm is on the upper portion of the Wairau, and is not first-class land. Still, I have got very fair crops of thirty to forty bushels of wheat. We do not usually grow oats where the land is suitable for wheat, but we get a fair crop of oats after cropping with wheat or barley. We get forty to fifty bushels of oats per acre. 2440. Can you give any information as to the quality of the limestone? —I know that the Flaxbourne District is composed of limestone, but I cannot tell you of what kind. On the Awatere, there is a very deep bed of blue clay, which goes to an unknown depth. Above that it is more of a waterworn deposit. Above that again there is a clay, with a black soil on the top. 2441. Can you say anything of the cropping capabilities of the land —that is, how many crops of grain it will grow without being renewed by manure ? —I cannot tell. The land at present is only used for pastoral purposes, and there has been very little attempt at cropping it at all. 2442. Has any land in the Awatere been cropped, to your knowledge, for a series of years ? —I do not know what has been the experience of the persons living there, as I am not living in the district; but I look upon the greater portion of the land I speak of as being better than my own. 2443. Where is your market for the sale of produce? —All the produce will be brought to Blenheim, as there is no means of shipping it elsewhere. That has been the great drawback to the district from the agricultural point of view. Everything has to be brought over a very high saddle, and there is no prospect of farming to any advantage. 2444. llr. Wright .] How far is it, on the south side of Blenheim, to the first agricultural settlement on the coast ? —The first agricultural settlement is at Kaikoura, which, I believe, is about 90 miles distant. 2445. Then any extension of the railway to the Flaxbourne District would be of no use to the .Kaikoura settlers ?—lt would be of no use. 2446. Can you say on what terms the land you surveyed for the New Zealand Company was sold? —It was surveyed with the intention of carrying out the Company's original scheme, under which there was an appropriation made to each settler who purchased in England of 150 acres. Some sections were taken up for carrying out that liability of the Company; the remainder was taken up, under Sir George Grey's Regulations, at 10s. an acre. The whole of it was taken up at once at that price. 2447. The Cliairman.~\ Is there any demand for land of this description for farming ? —Tes, there is a considerable demand. A great many small settlers are desirous to get the land to settle upon. 2448. Are you aware that there are persons in the Wairau Plain who are now letting their land for farming purposes ?—Yes. 2449. How far away from Blenheim ?—Twelve or 15 miles. Mr. Joseph Waeb sworn and examined. 2450. The Chairman.'] Have you some interest in the land through which the proposed railway line to Awatere will pass ? —Yes ; it will pass through property in which I have an interest for 8 or 9 miles. 2451. Would the trustees of that estate, of whom you are one, be willing to deal liberally with the Government with regard to the purchase of land for the line of railway?—l have not consulted with the other trustees on the subject, but, knowing them intimately, I believe they would deal as liberally as possible —in fact, they would give the land for the purpose. 2452. Can you give any evidence with reference to the character of the land iu the Awatere ? —A great part of it is what we call good land. It is a far superior valley to the Wairau, in which we are now living ; but the people in the Awatere District have been cut off by a range of mountains'. 2453. Would you and your brother-trustees be willing to let or sell farms, provided the railway were constructed, and private persons were willing to take the land from you ?—Yes ; and I can also state with regard to the Flaxbourne property that, when speaking to Sir Charles Clifford some years ago, he said that whenever the moment arrived when that land would bo better for agriculture than for sheep-farming, it was there for anybody that liked to take it. The estimate of carriage which has
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been made by Mr. Clark does not include the Upper Awatere at all. A considerable portion of that land is far superior to the Awatere Valley, and it would be brought within the focus of this railway. Mr. J. E, Hodsos sworn and examined. 2454:. The Chairman.] Do you know the course of the proposed line of railway to Awatere ?— I do. 2455. Mr. Clark has stated that he considers that to that point there would be about 41,000 acres of land available for agricultural purposes, and which would probably be brought into occupation. I believe there is some land in the Upper Awatere of which you have some knowledge. Will you tell the Commission what you consider its character and its area ?—At present there is no road to the Upper Awatere District. The x4.watere Boad Board are now surveying a line of road up the Awatere which will connect the Upper Awatere by a good dray-road with the Lower Awatere. There is a block of country between the land which has been pointed out by Mr. Clark and the Upper Awatere, which is only suitable for pastoral purposes; but when you get up higher, the valley opens out, and there is a considerable amount of good level land, which will, no doubt, grow grain as soon as this road is made. There are flat table-lands and valleys. The country is naturally rather cold, but Ido not think it would be any the worse for cropping wheat. I suppose it would be rather better than otherwise. There is a considerable quantity of very good land, although I cannot tell you the exact amount. I have travelled over a great deal of the country between here and Dunedin, and lam sure that a great deal of this land is equal to anything I have seen; in fact, it is very similar country to the Mackenzie country. 2456. Mr. Clark.'] What is the distance from the land to which you refer to the nearest point of the proposed railway ? —About 35 miles or more. At present, owing to the want of roads, all our wool is being carted the whole way to Amberley at considerable cost. An Act was passed last year to enable the Awatere Shearing Reserve to be sold for the purpose of making a road to the Upper Awatere, and we are now in hopes of being able to bring our wool this way to Blenheim. As soon as the railway is opened to Awatere it will be a very great boon to that district. 2457. But it would only be of use for carrying wool, I suppose ?—Directly the land is opened up by railway, I take it that grain can be grown advantageously. 2458. But can it be carted 40 miles and still be grown profitably ?—Tes, I think so. 2459. How much would it take to cart it per ton per mile ?—lt would depend upon the route. I am comparing one route with the other. One route is three or four times the length of the other. I do not for one moment mean to say that the construction of this railway would immediately open up the land in the Upper Awatero for grain-growing. 2460. When you have a road opened there, the wool grown in the Upper Awatere may be sent by the railway, but nothing else ? —lt would be sent at a third of the cost at which it is sent the other way. It costs 10 guineas per ton to send it to Amberley. 2461. Mr. Wright.'] Is not that caused by some regulations in connection with scab in the district, which compels you to cart your wool to Amberley instead of bringing it to llaxbourne ?—lt is the absence of a road that leads us to send the wool to Amberley. As soon as the new road is made the wool will be taken to Blenheim. The wool grown in the district lam speaking of is included in the estimate which Mr. Fell has already given. Mr. A. P. Sbymottb, M.H.E., sworn and examined. 2462. The Chairman.] Do you wish to give evidence with regard to the proposed extension of the railway ?—There exists in this district a considerable demand for land ; and at a considerable distance from Blenheim, even now, wherever there is a decent road, constant inquiries are made of the owners of land to allow parties to take it up in farms suitable for agriculture. The owner of the run adjoining my own, some 16 or 18 miles from Blenheim, told me the other day that he had let a good deal of his flat and undulating land, and that lie would be able to let it all. Another neighbour of mine has also let the whole of his land that is available. Although I possess only a small quantity of land suitable for farming, I have let every acre I could spare ; and I only wish I had a great deal more of it, as I could very soon let it. Sir Charles Clifford told me, many years ago, that whenever an opportunity occurred he would be very glad to dispose of his land in farms. I cannot call to mind whether he said he would let or sell the land. lam sure he would be glad to let or sell, as no person who has land suitable for agriculture would allow it to bo simply run over by sheep when it could be farmed. 2463. Mr. Beid.] Can you tell what rents the tenants are willing to give ?—They give 10s. an acre. 2464. Is that for taking one or two crops, or is it for a period of years ?—I do not know the terms on which the land has been let. In my own case I have let the land for two years' crops, and to be laid down ultimately in grass. Mr. H. C. Seymour, Traffic Manager of the Blenheim Eailway, sworn and examined. 2465. Mr. Wright.] Can you give the Commission any information as to the amount of traffic for the nine months ending 31st March, on the Picton and Blenheim lino ? —-The receipts for the nine months ending 31st March, 1880, were £3,512 Os. 6d.; the expenditure up to the 6th of March was £3,066 16s. Bd. The expenditure for the last four weeks I have not yet received. 2466. With the last four weeks' expenditure included, the total expenditure would be greater than the receipts ?—lt would be very nearly the same. 2467. The expenditure, I presume, includes maintenance ?—Tes—and locomotive repairs, and general charges. 2468. Is the maintenance likely to be greater this year than last, owing to the floods six weeks back ?—Tes ; the extra expenditure on account of the floods will have to be included in the maintenance.
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2469. Can you give an approximate estimate of what that expenditure Trill be ? —About £250, including the rebuilding of the bridge. 2170. Do you expect any great increase of traffic now that the line is about to be opened into the Town of Blenheim?—l hope so. I think that our passenger traffic, and also our goods traffic, will increase. I think more people will travel when they have the opportunity of getting in at Blenheim and getting out at Picton. With regard to goods, I think the traffic will increase in this way: that people, will now be able to get their goods from Picton or Wellington right into Blenheim without having to pay cartage from Opawa, and other charges ; and, furthermore, they will get their goods with greater regularity. 2471. What have been the extra expenses from the present terminus into Blenheim ? —Cartage into Blenheim and puntagc over the Opawa liiver. 2472. What is the distance from the terminus to Blenheim ?—About a mile. Passengers are charged Is., and 3d. for the punt. 2473. Is there much tourist traffic on this line from Picton to Blenheim ?—No. 2474. What is the number of passengers for the nine months ? —The total number is 16,914 — 3,976 first-class and 12,938 second-class. The money-value is £1,450 19s. 6d. 2475. Then the goods traffic for the nine mouths represents a little over £2,000 ?—Tes. 2476. What does that principally consist of? —A few horses and cattle, sheep, coals and other minerals, timber, grain, and general merchandise. The principal items are 0,580 tons of timber, 321 tons of grain, 275 tons of minerals, 100 tons of coal, and 622 tons of general merchandise. The bulk of our traffic is timber, which amounts to about five-sixths of the total goods traffic. 2477. What is the rate charged for the timber? —Sevenpence per 100 feet from any station on the line. That is the maximum. 2478. What is the length of the line ?—Eighteen miles. 2479. Then you are carrying it for less than fd. per 100 feet per mile ?—We charge from Opawa, 17 miles, but they state it at 18 miles. 2480. Can you state how it is you have an exceptional rate for timber ? —No. It has been fixed, I suppose, by Mr. Conyers. It has been in force for the last two years, and before I was Traffic Manager. 2481. Do you consider that a paying rate for the railway ?—I do not. 2482. Does it not amount to only 3s. a ton between Picton and Blenheim ? —About that. 2483. What is the character of the grades ? —The one from Picton to the Elevation is 2 miles in length, and I think it ranges from 1 in 45 to 1 in 47. 2484. What addition to this charge for timber would be necessary to make it a paying rate ?—I think from Id. to l|d. per 100 feet per mile, and to have no minimum at all. I have forwarded to Mr. Conyers a list of alterations in our tariff which I think might be advantageous to the line. I sent it about a month ago. I also made suggestions as to an increase in the passenger traffic. 2485. Then the unfavourable position that your line holds as regards other lines in the colony is due principally to this unprofitable timber rate ? —Tes. 2486. Prom the figures you have given it would be worse than the 93 per cent, shown in the returns ? —Tes. 2487. Mr. Clark.'] Will the timber trade be increased by the line being finished to Blenheim ? — I think not. 2488. Is the principal portion of the timber carried to Picton for shipment ?—I cannot say exactly. During some months more timber comes to Blenheim than to Picton, and sometimes it is the other way. During the last month or two more timber has come to Blenheim. 2489. Is there not grain exported from this district by way of Picton ? —Last year there were, I think, between 7,000 and 8,000 sacks of barley, which were carried along the railway. 2490. Is there any grain sent otherwise than by the railway —for instance, by water ?—Tes ; but not to Picton. 2491. What other means of carriage competes with the railway in the conveyance of general merchandise?—The water-carriage down the river from Blenheim. 2492. Can you form an idea as to the amount of that class of goods which is carried by water, and the amount carried by rail ?—The amount carried by water is a great deal larger than we carry, I have been told that 150 tons a week go down the river. 2493. Do you expect that the extension of the line into Blenheim will have the effect of diverting a considerable portion of that traffic to the railway ?—-I think it will —for this reason :In many cases the steamers and vessels that ply up and down here get bar-bound, often for a week together, and if people can get their goods supplied by steamer through Picton, and delivered next day from Wellington, Nelson, and elsewhere, the goods will be conveyed by the railway in preference to water-carriage. 2494. At present do the steamers plying between Wellington and Blenheim come up the river to discharge?—Tes—all the vessels coming from Wellington. 2495. How are the goods carried between Wellington and Blenheim by water ? —ln small steamers. 2496. What is the freight between Wellington and Blenheim ?—I think it is 15s. a ton. 2497. What is the freight between Wellington and Picton ? —Twenty-five shillings. It depends upon the quality of the goods. It varies from £1 to 30s. 2498. Then in reality the carriage by water direct is 10s. cheaper, without including the railway charges ? —Tes, but we can deliver our goods in better time than they can be delivered by the river. 2499. What is the cause of the difference in the rates of freight between Wellington and Picton and Wellington and Blenheim?—Simply because the steamers that trade from Wellington to Blenheim belong to merchants in Blenheim, while all the steamers that come to Picton are the Union Company's boats. I may mention that I am in hopes of getting the wool traffic next year by the railway. A great deal depends upon a ship loading at Picton; but if a ship does load at Picton I understand that a good many of our runholders will load there. In that case our revenue will be greatly increased at the end of the year.
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Nokmanby, Monday, 17th Mat, 1880. A deputation, consisting of Messrs. C. H. Beresford, C. E. Gibson, D. McGregor, P. H. Brett, N. Johnston, and G. V. Bate, waited upon the Commission. 2500. Mr. Gibson said: Speaking for the people of Normanby, all we want is simply justice done to us. We want to have a railway station and post and telegraph offices erected here, instead of their being placed halt' a mile distant. 2501. Mr. Bate : There are two parties interested in this question —the people living in the Normanby Extension, and those residing in the old Normanby township. They are both private townships. I merely wish to state that none of the people in the Extension township were aware that the Commission would receive a deputation here to-day. Mr. C. E. Gibsos" sworn and examined. 2502. The Chairman.] What is your occupation ? —I am a storekeeper. 2503. You wish to give evidence in regard to a proposed railway station at Normanby? —Yes. 2504. I believe you do not represent any public body, but are speaking on behalf of a number of the residents of this township ? —We were appointed a committee at a public meeting to take all these matters in hand and represent them to the Government. lam chairman of that committee. 2505. Will you now be good enough to state your objections to the site proposed by the Government for a railway station ? —My objection is this: that, in the first place, it is too far away from the centre of population. The nucleus of a township has formed, itself around here, and all the business places are here. Our chief objection would bo to the removal of the telegraph and post offices, which the Government propose removing to wherever the railway station site may be. 2506. What is the distance of the proposed station-site from the present centre of population in the township ?—I should say it is distant half a mile. 2507. Are you aware if the considerations of cost have influenced the Government engineers, or is there any engineering ground for preferring the site the Government have decided upon ?—I do not think any considerations of cost have influenced them; the site on the Extension was simply recommended to them by a Government engineer, Mr. Bees. 2508. You do not know the grounds on which that recommendation was made?—l do not. 2509. Mr. Wright.] Have you made any representations to the Minister for Public Works on this question ? —Yes. 2510. How long since ?—We waited upon him as a deputation when he passed through here a short time ago —about the 9th of April. 2511. And you have had no reply ? —No. 2512. How far will your proposed site be from the present post and telegraph offices ?—About 250 yards. 2513. And what would be the extra distance of the site proposed by Government ?—lt would ,be about half a mile from here, or about 50 chains. 2514. Your application is to have the station about half a mile nearer the existing business portion of the town ? —Yes. 2515. Mr. Clark.'] There is no question involved as regards the cost of the two sites ?—None whatever. 251G. In both cases they are given free ?—Yes. 2517. Mr. Wright.] The alteration you propose would bring the station half a mile nearer the junction of the main road to the Waimate Plains ?—Yes. . Mr. P. 11. Beett sworn and examined. 25L8. The Chairman.] What is your occupation? —A farmer. 2519. Will you now be good enough to make any statement you wish to the Commission?—The pegs indicating the branch line to Opuuake start from the site on Hone Pihama's land. 2520. Mr. Wright.] If that line should be carried out there must be a junction there?—Yes. 2521. So that placing the station half a mile from Hone Pihama's site would necessitate two stations, or a junction at an inconvenient distance? —I cannot say. At the present time the whole of the land between Normanby and Hawera is cut up into large farms, consisting of from 500 to 2,000 acres. All the bush-land to the northward is now laid out in small farms, and will be occupied by a larger population. All timber has to be brought from the northward. There is no town laid off nearer than Stratford. The land for the site we propose for a railway station has been offered free to the Government. 2522. Who laid off the branch line from the northern end of the town to Opunake ? —I think it was Mr. Foy. Mr. liees, who I believe recommended the Extension site to the Government, is personally interested in sections there, and they are registered in his name. 2523. The Chairman.] Is Mr. Kees in the Government service? —-At that time he was in the Government service as District Engineer. He is now engineer to the Taranaki Harbour Board. 2524. Mr. Wright.] You say sections are registered in his name ? —I saw one registered in his name, and another was in for registration. 2525. What is the extent of these sections ?—One is about a quarter of an acre in extent, and the other is larger. Mr. G. V. Bate sworn and examined. 2526. The Chairman.] What is your occupation?—l am a settler. I purchased some land in the Normanby Extension on the faith of a letter from the Government stating that they had accepted the jSTormanby Extension site for a railway station. The letter was read at the auction sale, and on the strength of that letter my agent purchased the land. After some correspondence had taken place with a view to get the site altered, the following letter was received from the Public Works Office: —-
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GtENTlEmbn,— Public Works Office, Wellington, 16th November, 1878. I am directed by the Hon. the Minister for Public Worts to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 12th instant, in which you request a, reconsideration of the silo of the Normanby Station, and, in reply, to inform you that the site has been chosen for satisfactory engineering reasons; and, while at all times desirous of consulting the -wishes of the inhabitants of the localities interested in the site3 of stations, the Minister regrets that he is unable in this case to revise the selection already made. I have, &c, John Knowles, Under-Secretary for Public Works. Messrs. C. E. G-ibson, D. McGregor, ]?. 11. Brett, and the other gentlemen signing the petition, Nonnanby. A good many persons have bought building-sites at the Normanby Extension on the strength of the promise from the Government as to the railway station being placed there. Both townships are private townships. The Extension site is more central for both townships than Hone Pihama's site. I may say that I know that Mr. Eees has only got an interest to the extent of about £60 in the Extension township. I believe that Mr. Eoy's survey for the railway to Waimate was commenced from Te Sore, and not from Normanby. 2527. Mr. Clark.] How many residents are there at present in the Extension township ?—I cannot possibly say, but houses are going up every week. 2528. Are there anv hotels or places of business ? —No ; they are all private residences. 2529. Colonel Pearce.] All the evidence that is now given to the Commission has already been laid before the.Minister for Public Works ? —Tes. The Hon. Mr. Oliver stated that he would decide the question in a few days, and that if the Government had given a distinct promise for the Extension site, he could do nothing in the matter. 2530. The Chairman.] Is the letter of the 16th November the letter that was read by the auctioneer at the time of sale ?—I believe not. 2531. Mr. Wright.] When did this auction sale take place ?—One auction sale took place in December, 1878 ; but I think I purchased my land in November of the same year. 2532. Mr. Clark,'] Are you aware that, in the newspaper from which you read a letter from the Under-Secretar}7" for Public Works, there is one of a more recent date from the same officer, showing that the question was still under consideration? —I have seen that letter. I read the letter in order to show the Commission that at that time the question of site was fully considered by the Government, and the site accepted, and that we purchased land on the strength of the Government having accepted that site. 2533. Mr. Gibson.'] You stated to the Commission that you are a settler? —Tes. 2534. Can you tell the Commission where you reside, and what your occupation really is?—l am a commission and land agent, and reside at Hawera. Mr. Chakles Qursru" sworn and examined. 2535. The Chairman.] What is your occupation?—l am a settler. 2536. You were the purchaser of land at the Extension township ? —Yes ; I bought it at auction. I purchased the land at Wellington abput fifteen months ago. 2537. Can you say whether any document was read by the auctioneer from the Government in reference to the railway station site?—-Yes; there were several letters read. 2538. You cannot say whether there was a letter from the Government ? —I cannot say. It was on the strength of a deed conveying the land from Thomson and McGuire to the Government for a station-site that I purchased my land at auction at Hawera afterwards. I bid for the laud at Wellington. 2589. What was the size of the sections you bought, and what was the price you gave for them?— I bought one section of 2 acres and 32 perches, for which I paid £71; also another section of 1 acre 1 rood 30 perches, for which I paid £41. Since then I purchased privately another section of 2 acres and 32 perches for £71, and two more sections of 1 acre 1 rood 30 perches each for £91. 2510. Mr. Clarlc] How many buildings are there at present in the Extension township ? —There are thirteen in the Extension township and three near to it; also a church. 2541. Was there nothing in the conveyance of the site to show that the Government had accepted it ?—lt was read out as having been signed by the Under-Secretary for Public Works, accepting the site for a railway station. The deputation withdrew.
New Plymouth, Tuesday, 18th May. Mr. Robert West Holmes, Resident Engineer, sworn and examined. 2542. Mr. Wright.] Just state to the Commission the position of the railway between here and Normanby as to what contracts are let, and when they are likely to be completed. —There is one contract at present being carried out called the Mangawhero Contract. That extends to 7 miles beyond Stratford. That section will be completed in November next. Tenders are now being called for a further length of 4i miles, the work to be completed on 31st March next. The formation for 4 miles on this side of Normanby will be completed this month. Then tenders will have to be called for laying the permanent way on that portion of the line. That will complete the line to Normanby. I have charge of the construction of the lino to Tlawera; but the survey of the line between Normanby and Hawera is not under my control: it is under the control of Mr. Toy. 2543. Who fixed the station-sites on the line of railway?—The Government in Wellington, or, I suppose, the Engineer in Charge. 2544. But upon Mr. Toy's recommendation?—Yes; for the part of the line he is surveying it would be so : he would recommend, from an engineering point of yiew, the station-sites. 2545. Who fixed the first station-site, 3£ or 4 miles beyond Stratford ? —That was fixed in Wellington. 2546. You are aware that a siding has been put in about a mile on this side of the point at which the line leaves the main road ?—Yes.
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2547. "What were the reasons for selecting that particular spot ?—There is a level grade there, and a district road crosses the railway line at that point. 2548. Is there any difficulty about the grade a mile farther on ? —Yes : the line all the way from Stratford to Normanby, with very few exceptions, is on a falling grade. 2549. Can you give the grade at the point of divergence of the line from the main south road?— It is 1 in 60. 2550. And that is the substantial reason for fixing the station a mile on this side of that point?— Tes. There are also very heavy cuttings on the line near the accommodation house at the point of divergence. 2551. When were the Tasmanian sleepers imported that are being used on the line?—l do not know. They were imported before I came to this district. 2552. How long have you been here ?—Since last September. 2553. Do you know what they cost ?—No, except from a Parliamentary paper which was published last session, which stated, I think, that the cost was 4s. lOd. each. 2554. What sleepers are you now using for the line other than the Tasmanian sleepers ? —Matai, and a few rimu left over from last permanent-way contract. 2555. What do they cost you ? —I think the contract price was 2s. Id. each. 2556. Who had the passing of those sleepers ? —The overseers. The person who passed the matai sleepers we are now using is named Friers. 2557. Is he now in the public service ? —No. 2558. What was the cause of his leaving ?—Drunkenness was the principal cause. A few sleepers 1 have obtained have been passed by Mr. Oliver. 2559. You are aware, I presume, that a great many of those sleepers are below the standard size ? —Yes. I allude to the sleepers passed by Friers. 2560. The passing of those sleepers was not the immediate cause of his dismissal ? —I do not know : he was discharged before I came here. 2561. Who is responsible for their now being placed in the line ?—I suppose lam responsible. 2562. Do you think it conducive to a good road to put in sleepers so small as many of those that were passed by Mr. Friers ? —No, I do not. 2563. Have you made any representation on the subject to the Engineer in Charge ?■ —No ; I have not done so myself by letter. 2564. You are simply using sleepers because they are Government property acquired before you came into the district ? —Yes. 2565. Are you receiving any sleepers of the same character now ? —No. 2566. What is the size of those you are receiving now ?—I am not getting any at present; the supply has been stopped. The few I obtained were 7 feet long, 7by 5 inches. 2~567. Have no instructions been issued to alter the dimensions in purchasing sleepers in future ? —No. 2568. Are you not aware that in the Middle Island they n'ow order none under 8 by 5 inches ?—I have heard so. 2569. You have had no official intimation ?—No. 2570. Mr. Clark.'] What do you consider the life of the matai sleepers ? —I should say about ten years. I cannot speak positively, because I have not seen any used and seen them again after the lapse of a certain number of years. 2571. In using these smaller sleepers, are you careful to use them on the straight, and where the gradients are easy ? —I use them on the straight and for the middle sleepers. 2572. Do you think that the stock in hand, by selecting them in that way, can be used without injury to the line, or do you think they are altogether too small? —A good many of them are too small, and have been thrown out, and not used on the main line. I have used them temporarily in ballast-pit sidings. 2573. I presume you were not responsible for the selection of the station-site at Normanby ?—No. 2574. Colonel Pearce.] Can you state approximately the cost per mile of the line between Stratford and Normanby ? —I could not say without reference to the documents in the office. 2575. What was the tender for the first contract from Stratford ?—I think it was £9,700. 2576. And the distance of that contract ? — Six miles 60 chains. 2577. Did that include permanent way ?—lt included everything but cost of rails and sleepers and station-buildings. 2578. Is the remainder likely to cost more, or about the same ?—The next contract would be much heavier. Speaking roughly, I should say it would cost about £3,500 per mile. 2579. What is the length of that contract ? —Four and a half miles. 2580. Mr. Wright.'] The £3,500 per mile covers the earthwork, platelaying, and ballasting ?— Yes. That is the heaviest section of the line from here to Normanby. 2581. Colonel Pearce."] That cost includes culverts and bridges ? —Yes. 2582. Mr. Wright.] Have you any knowledge of the durability of the heart of rimu ? —Not in this part of the country, but on the west coast of the South Island the rimu sleepers only lasted three or four years. I fancy the heart of rimu here is a much superior class of timber. 2583. Have you any knowledge of its durability in this district when exposed to the weather?— No, I have not. Mr. J. Duncan Hams/is, Traffic Manager, sworn and examined. 2584. Mr. Wright.] You are Traffic Manager for the New Plymouth Eailway ? —Yes. 2585. How long have you filled that position ? —About three years. 2586. Can you give the average number of passengers carried monthly between here and Stratford? —The total number of passengers carried monthly is about 5,000 for the whole line. 2587. That is to and from all stations ? —Yes ; including Waitara. 2588. Can you not state the average number monthly between New Plymouth and Stratford ?• —I should say about 360 to and fro.
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2589. What is the principal goods traffic on the railway ?—We have timber and firewood, and small consignments of merchandise. The principal traffic is timber and firewood. In the grass-seed season we carry a good quantity of grass-seed. 2590. Is there any traffic in sheep and cattle between Stratford and Waitara ?—We have had very little. The principal traffic has been the carriage of racehorses from Wanganui to the New Plymouth races. We had a Jot of about 3,000 sheep from Inglewood to New Plymouth. 2591. Can you explain why it is you get no traffic in sheep and cattle for shipment at Waitara?— None have gone through from the South. 2592. Has not an application been made to you to carry sheep at a reduced rate ? —One man did speak about it. 2593. What did he offer ?—He did not make any offer. I told him what the charges were. I asked him how many sheep he had, and he told me had about 1,200. 2594. What is the rate for carriage of sheep from Stratford to Waitara ?—Fifteen shillings and fourpence for a truck-load of about thirty sheep. This would be about s^d. per head for a distance of 26 miles. 2595. Are the locomotives fully employed ? —Yes. 2596. What is the maximum load that your engines can take from here to Stratford ? —Class C engines can take about nine loaded vehicles, and the smaller engines six loaded vehicles. 2597. Could the department carry sheep at a profit from Stratford to Waitara at a less charge than s^d. per head P —l do not think it could. 2598. You are using red-pine sleepers in the maintenance of the line ?—I am. 2599. What do they cost you ?■ —Eighteenpence each. 2600. Sawn or split?—Split. 2601. All full dimensions ?—Yes, and of the heart of the wood. 2602. Have you any experience as to how long they are likely to last ?—I have had very little experience of New Zealand woods. I think these sleepers will last from five to seven years. 2603. Did you consult with the Engineer in Charge on the subject before ordering red-pine sleepers ?—No. 2604. Are you not supposed to do so ? —Not that I am aware of. 2605. You are at liberty to purchase and use any timber you approve of ? —Yes. I have already done so. I used to get totara sleepers from the Public Works Department at a cost of about 3s. 10a. each delivered at the New Plymouth Station. I thought the charge too much, and therefore I got the red-pine sleepers instead, at Is. 6d. each. 2606. Over what period has your experience of New Zealand woods extended?—Only since 1 have had charge of the line —about three years. 2607. Then, for all you know to the contrary, you may be using timber that would be rotten in twelve months ?—No. I put in red-pine sleepers two years ago, and they are now thoroughly sound. 2608. Mr. Clar7e.~\ Have you replaced any matai sleepers on the line ? —Yes; I have taken them up, 2609. Do you know how long they were down ? —They were down since the line was opened in • 1874, and I took them out last year. They were down about four or five years. 2610. In the returns of expenditure is there any allowance made for depreciation of rolling-stock and permanent way ? —No ; the returns only include actual renewals. 2611. Colonel Pearce.'] What class of rails have you on this line ? —We have got 30-lb. rails; 40-lb; rails, and a few 52-lb. steel rails. 2612. Which are being used now in the extension from Stratford to Normanby ? —The 52-lb; steel rails. 2613. Have you any suggestions to offer whereby there would be a reduction in expenditure in proportion to the receipts ?—No; but I think the receipts might be increased a little by having the tariff charges increased. For instance, a 400-gallon tank is conveyed 5 miles for Is. I think the charge should be increased to 2s. 6d. or 3s. Then, again, furniture is taken at dead weight at a rate and a half, which is too low. 2614. The expendihire is brought down as low as it can be ? —Yes. 2615. Mr. Clark.'] Do you consider the conveyance of timber and firewood pays at the present rate? —Yes; you could not well increase the rate. Mr. Thomas Humphries, Chief Surveyor, sworn and examined. 2616. Mr. Wright.'] How long is it since you received instructions from the Surveyor-General to furnish the returns included in the copies of schedules produced?—About a fortnight ago. Owing to severe illness in my family, and being unwell myself, I have been unable to furnish the information applied for until last week. 2617. Did you not receive instructions as to the area of land to be included in the returns ?—No instructions of that nature were given. 2618. No instructions as to mileage limit or the area within watershed ?—No. 2619. To the best of your judgment you have now furnished all the information asked for ?—Yes. A deputation, consisting of Colonel Trimble, M.H.E., Messrs. J. Caverhill, W. D. Webster, and W. K. Hulke, waited upon the Commission. 2620. Mr. William D. Webster, merchant, made the following statement: It has been felt for a considerable time, in regard to the trade at Waitara, that great delay occurs at times in the transit of goods to their different points of delivery after being landed at Waitara. So much has this been the case, that of late merchants have countermanded goods going to Waitara at all. If you had time, I could produce evidence to bear out this statement. I cannot give any reason for that delay : I only know that the delav does occur at Waitara through the Railway Department. The trade of Waitara is increasing very much. In the year 1878 only 72 vessels arrived there, and in the year 1879 there were 102. I have not the return up to March, 1880, but I am quite sure the percentage is 19—E. 3.
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more than between 1878 and 1879. During the month of April last there were 1,000 tons entered inwards in 17 vessels. I feel sure that, with better despatch, the receipts of the railway would be very much augmented, more especially when the new wharf now being constructed by the Harbour Board is finished. 2621. Mr. Clark: You say you are unaware of the cause of the detention ? 2622. Mr. Webster : Yes. 2623. Mr. Clark: Do you know whether any complaints have been made by the consignees of the goods to the Traffic Manager ? 2624. Mr. Webster: I have heard that complaints have been made, but Ido not know of my own knowledge. 2625. Mr. Clark: Do you know whether the Traffic Manager gave auy reason for the delay in Bending goods from Waitara ? 2626. Mr. Webster : The reason given was the want of trucks. 2627. Mr. Clark: There was no complaint that the traffic was more than the number of trains would have enabled him to take if he had had additional trucks? 2628. Mr. Webster: No. If he had had additional trucks the trade could have been carried out even with the engines at present in use. Of course it would have been carried out much more speedily with better engines. With regard to the traffic of eheep from Stratford to Waitara, I may state that up to the present time none have been brought to Waitara for shipment by rail. Some 2,000 were brought there by Mr. Caverhill about this time last year, and I think I am right in stating that the cost was between 4d. and 6d. per head. On an average, at the present time, from 2,000 to 3,000 sheep go out of the Waitara monthly to the Auckland market. I waited upon the General Manager, Mr. Harris, a fortnight since—and have done so on previous occasions—asking him to represent the high rate that at present was in existence, as published in the Gazette, for railage of sheep from Stratford to Waitara, amounting in the aggregate to about 4id. per head. Mr. Winks stated that he would readily pay 2d. per head, but could not afford to pay more, as the cost of driving was not over Id.; that he would use the railway in preference, and that other stock-owners would do the same, if the rate were 2d. per head. 2629. Mr. Clark : Are sheep being driven between Stratford and Waitara now ? 2630. Mr. Webster : Yes ; the bulk of the sheep shipped at Waitara go through from Hawera. 2631. Mr. William King Ilnlke made the following statement: All the produce not grown in the place is now imported, amounting to about 30.000 bushels of wheat, 50 tons of flour, 7,000 bushels of oats, 20 tons of oatmeal, from 40 to CO tons of potatoes, about 20 tons of grass-seed and bacon. The whole of this produce is imported from the Province of Canterbury. Were the line finished between Hawera and New Plymouth, the whole of that produce would come from that district, because the difference in the cost of transit is so great. In Class Eof the railway charges a charge of 2|d. per ton per mile would give 13s. 4d. per ton, as against 30s. if brought by ship. For the want of a railway we have now to pay these increased charges. Then, again, there is a charge made by the railway of 2s. 6d. a ton additional as terminal charges. We cannot see why those charges should be made. The trucks are loaded by the shipper, and they are unloaded at this end by the consignee. Again, there is a charge of 3s. 6d. per ton for wharfage at Waitara for all goods not going over the rail, and 2s. 6d. for goods going over the line. There is no wharfage accommodation. All cattle and sheep now shipped from Waitara are shipped from private wharves, to the great loss of the Railway Department. The wharf is at least from 4 to 6 feet higher than it ought to be, and consequently no person can ship from it. No Government expenditure has taken place for the improvement of it. The goods shed is in the middle of the street, and there are no facilities there such as exist in other commercial centres. Had we the railway finished between Hawera and New Plymouth, a large quantity of produce would be shipped to the Auckland market, which at present is impossible for want of transit. The country that would be available for the growth of cereals in the Hawera District is now unoccupied, except by cattle. The deputation withdrew.
Auckland, Thursday, 20tii Mat, 1880. A deputation from the Auckland Harbour Board, coDsisting of Captain D. H. McKenzie (chairman) and Captain W. C. Daldy, waited upon the Commission. They were accompanied by Mr. J. M. Brigham, Secretary to the Board. Captain D. H. McKenzie sworn and examined. 2632. The Chairman.'] We understand that, on behalf of the Harbour Board of Auckland, you wish to make some representation to the Commission? —We wish to impress upon the Commission the necessity of finishing the present reclamation. There can bo no difference of opinion as to the injury the works have done to the harbour. We also desire that in any future works there should be stringent clauses in the contract, compelling the contractor to protect his works as they progressed. 2633. Then I understand that what you wish is, that the works should go on with more expedition, and that the contractor shall protect the works so as to avoid injury to the harbour ?—Tes. 2634. It is not that you object to the nature of the works now being carried on, but that you want a sufficient security against injury to the harbour itself?—lt is no part of our duty to dictate as to how the work should be done. We simply want the work done, and carried out in such a manner as will not injure the harbour. At present no work at all is going on. I cannot state the exact length of time that has elapsed since the work was suspended, but it is a long time since. 2635. Is there any contract now pending ? —Tenders wero called for, but we are not aware whether they were accepted or not. 2636. Mr. Wright.~\ When you speak of tenders having been called for, do you refer to tenders invited to finish the work that was left unfinished by the previous contractor ? —I understood that the contract now tendered for was to carry out the original contract tendered for by Mr. Dempsey—that
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is, the original extent of work ; but the plans may be modified or extended. I believe the tenders are for the original extent of ground. 2637. Did the original contract include all the reclamation that the Harbour Board desired to have made ? —Yes. 2638. Can you state what was the amount of that contract ?—'About £33,000. 2639. Can you say who wore sureties for Mr. Dempaey ? —I have heard that it was cash security to the amount of £1,800. 2610. There was no personal security ?—My impression is. that there was no personal security of any kind, nor bondsmen. 264L. Have any soundings been taken to show whether that portion of the harbour has silted up in consequence of these reclamation works ? —Tes. At least, I understood that soundings were taken by Mr. Maxwell. The engineer to the Harbour Board also took soundings. ■2642. What was the result of their soundings F —-As far as I can gather, they reported that there was not much silting outside the line of the pi'oposed reclamation. At the same time we are aware that at the railway wharf, according to Mr. McDonald's soundings, the silting has reduced the depth of water by 5 feet. 2643. Over what extent of ground ?—I do not say that in other places there is this extent of silting, but my own impression is that there has been silting up for a long way out. That is also the opinion of the Harbourmaster. 2614. In cases of this sort is it not the Harbourmaster's duty to ascertain the extent of the silting by soundings?—He did report on several occasions; but the engineer generally takes the soundings. The soundings taken will be furnished to the Commission. 2645. Mr. Clark.'] Is that 5 feet which the harbour has silted up at the railway wharf the total amount silted since the wharf was built ? —Tes. 2616. Then what proportion of that has filled up since the reclamation works were commenced?—■ I cannot say, because I am not aware that soundings were taken until lately, to determine the amount of silting prior to the commencement of the present reclamation. 2647. Then, in sending in the report of soundings taken by the engineer, will you be good enough to give the result of any soundings that were taken between the time when the wharf was constructed and the present time, so that an estimate can be formed as to what portion of the silting has been caused by the reclamatiom works ? —The information will be given as far as we can furnish it. 2648. Do you wish, as Chairman of the Board, to give any opinion to the Commission regarding certain proposals made by the Government to make the railway station at Gore Street, instead of bringing it on to Queen Street?—The opinion of the Board certainly is, that the railway station should be taken to Queen Street. My own individual opinion coincides with that of the Minister for Public Works. 2649. In the event of the reclamation stopping at Grore Street, is there not a very large portion of the ground between that point and Queen Street already partially reclaimed ? —Tes. Mr. Oliver's proposal with regard to that part was to finish 5 chains, from Customhouse Street to Queen Street. 2650. Tinder the arrangement with the Government was the Harbour Board to get any portion of the reclaimed area ? —There were 85 feet of the street fronting the water, and 100 feet beyond that, to be retained by the Board. The Board was to give up 3J acres at Port Britomart, and the right to 7 acres of the reclaimed land. I produce a copy of the proposals made by the Harbour Board to the Government, and also a plan of the reclamation works. 2651. The Harbour Board had no distinct agreement with the Government?—No. 2652. Mr. Wright.'] The Government took possession and proceeded with the works in virtue of the Public Works Act ? —I presume so. We differed in opinion from the Attorney-General as to the power of the Government to take possession. 2653. Did you enter any protest ? —'No. 2654. Will you state how many years it is since the railway wharf was built ?—lt was finished about five years ago. 2655. And this deposit is the total silting during that period?—Tes. 2656. Have you any evidence to show how much of the silting took place before this reclamation was commenced ? —No. 2657. Mr. Clark.] Did the Government ever give the Harbour Board notice that they would take possession of this land under the Public Works Act of 1872 ? —Not that lam aware of. Ido not believe any such notice has ever been served. 2655. The inference which the Harbour Board drew when the Government took possession of the ground was that they did so under the proposals made by the Board ? —Tes. 2659. Colonel Pearce.] Is the management of the railway wharf under the control of the Harbour Board now? — Yes. 2660. Do the Harbour Board derive any dues from it ?—Tes. The Board erected the wharf at their own cost. 2661. Mr. Clarlc] The Government laid down the rails on that wharf, and erected a crane ?—Tes. 2662. In lieu of that the Harbour Board granted certain concessions as regards charging for haulage ? —I believe the Government do charge for extra haulage. We receive the usual wharfage dues on all goods shipped or landed on that wharf. 2663. Mr. Wright.] What wharfage dues do the Harbour Board collect ? —We charge on some classes of goods 2s. per ton, and on other classes of goods Is. per ton. 2664. What are the principal items on which you charge Is. per ton ?-—Coal, timber, grain, and manures. Captain W. C. Daldt sworn and examined. 2665. Mr. Wright.] Will you state your reasons for assuming that the harbour has silted up very rapidly since this reclamation commenced? —There is less water at the berths at the Queen Street wharf since the reclamation works were commenced. It is evident to every observer that, whenever
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there is any wind iu the harbour, a large portion of the water goes away discoloured, evidently carrying away a large quantity of silt with it. 2666. It is washed down from the unprotected earthwork ? —Yes. It is evident that the earth has gone somewhere. No protection whatever was afforded to prevent it going away. 2667. Can you state to what extent the water has been shallowed at the Queen Street wharf?— No. The Harbourmaster has made several reports on the subject. Ho has gauges at various parts of the wharf. It is a fact that the mail-steamer has now to haul off at a certain time of the tide, which she had not to do a year or eighteen months ago. The mail-steamers used to lie at the wharf at low water ; now they have to haul off before low water. 2668. Is that due to the silting, or is it merely an act of precaution ?—lt is due to the silting, according to the report of the Harbourmaster. 2669. Can you give any information as to the extent of the silting reported by the Harbourmaster? —I have no recollection of it. That will be shown in the report to be furnished to the Commission. I think it right to say that when the northern line was proposed the Harbour Board made offers to the Government of any land that they required for the purpose of taking the line out north of Auckland, instead of going out in the direction of Newmarket. The Railway Commissioner for the North Island, Mr. Lawson, examined freeman's Bay with a view to the station being there. Ido not know whether he reported on the matter; but it is very likely he did. I think it should be placed on record that in planning the reclamation work the Harbour Board were in no way consulted or advised as to what steps were being taken, or I have no doubt they would have been prepared to have advised that the silt which they are ready to raise in the harbour should be placed in the reclamation. Provision should have been made for taking that silt into the reclamation. In any contract entered into in future, that matter should be taken into consideration. The deputation withdrew. A deputation, consisting of Mr. John W. Robinson, Mayor of the Borough of Parnell, and Mr. S. Reynolds, Town Clerk, waited upon the Commission. Mr. J. W. Robinson sworn and examined. 2670. The Chairman.'] What representation do you wish to make to the Commission ?—We have waited upon you with reference to procuring a passenger station or platform in the Borough of Parnell. There are 3,000 inhabitants in the borough. The railway runs alongside of them, but there is no communication within about li miles with either the Auckland Station or the station at Newmarket. We would desire the Commission to recommend the erection of a railway station at the Domain crossing. 2671. I understand you to say that the nearest station, at Auckland or Newmarket, is distant about li miles from Parnell ? —Tes —from the centre of the borough. 2672. Then the Newmarket Station is about 4 miles from the Auckland Station?—About 3 miles. 2673. Has application been made by the borough to the Minister for Public Works to have a station at Parnell ? —Yes. I produce a copy of the application sent in. 2674. Have you had any reply to your application ? —We made another application nearly twelve months ago, and Mr. A. V. Macdonald, Traffic Manager, was applied to on the subject. He enclosed the written application to the Minister for Public Works. 2675. Had you any answer to that application ? —Mr. Macdonald stated that the gradient was rather heavy, but he was trying to make an arrangement. 2676. Have you heard anything further on the matter since that time ?—No ; we have had no answer as yet to the second application, made on the 13th April last. 2677. Mr. Wright.'] How far is the Domain crossing from the Auckland Station ?—Between three-quarters of a mile aud a mile. 2673. You asked for nothing more than a passenger platform ?—Nothing more. We simply want station-accommodation for passengers. When the railway was first opened, the train stopped at the Parnell crossing into the Domain for the accommodation of passengers, but that arrangement has been stopped. 2679. Do you know by whose order?—l do not. 2680. What number of passengers would be likely to use that platform daily ? —lt would take a good, deal of the 'bus traffic between Auckland and Parnell. 2681. Can you give us any idea what that traffic would amount to ?—The 'bus traffic is very large. There is a 'bus running each way every twenty minutes. 2682. What is the fare by the 'bus ?—Sixpence. 2653. Mr. Clark.] What is the distance from the main road in Parnell to the Domain crossing ? —A little over 200 yards. There is a connection by a steep road between the main road and the Domain crossing. 2684. How far is the Domain crossing from the entrance to the tunnel there ?—About 150 yards. The deputation withdrew.
Waiuku, Satueday, 22nd Mat, 1880. A deputation, consisting of the following gentlemen, waited upon the Commission : Major B. Harris, M.H.R, Major D. EL Lusk, Messrs. E. Harnlin, M.H.K., John Wallace, Robert Bent, Walter Harris, Edward Constable, H. Crispe, 0. Hoskins, John Mellsop, and George Selby. Major D. H. Litsk, surveyor, sworn and examined. 2685. The Chairman.'] Have you any statement to make to the Commission regarding the proposed branch line of railway from YVaiuku to Pukekohe ? —The proposed line from Pukekohe to Waiuku is about 11 miles in length. The country to be passed over presents no engineering difficulties whatever. There is no bridge of any size on the whole line, nor is there any great height; and, from
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the fact that there is an abundance of timber for sleepera, it would necessarily be a very inexpensive line to construct. Nearly the whole of the country on both sides of the line is sold and occupied. The number of holdings is very great, and the population is also very large when compared with any other rural district in the colony. I can give some statistics as to the number of holdings. In the Pukekohe Riding of the Manukau County there are 320 holdings ; in the Waiuku Riding, 140 holdings. There are scarcely any absentee proprietors. In the Waiuku Riding there is laid down in artificial grass, 9,923 acres; potatoes, 111 acres; other crops, 225 acres; land broken up and not in crop, 101 acres : total area under cultivation, 10,360 acres. In the Pukekohe Riding there is laid down in artificial grass, 15,067 acres; potatoes, 303 acres ; other crops, 3,354 acres ; broken up and not in crop, 513 acres: total area under cultivation, 19,237 acres. I may state that this does not by any means represent either the number of ridings or the area under cultivation which would feed the proposed line of railway. It simply represents the country that the line would pass through. There is a very extensive back pastoral country, from which stock would undoubtedly be brought by this line to the Auckland market. Stock from the Raglan runs and Lower Waikato is driven through this district now. At the present time, from the very insufficient or very poor road-accommodation existing in the district, the majority of the settlers are obliged to confine themselves to grazing cattle and sheep; but the country is exceedingly well fitted for growing crops of various sorts. It is a wellknown fact that, in many cases, settlers have grown large quantities of potatoes and other bulky crops which have either rotted in the ground or been used to feed pigs, simply because they were unable to get them to market at a reasonable cost. It is evident, therefore, that if a line were constructed there would be a very large increase at once in the production of the district. At the present time there are from twenty-five to thirty teams employed in carting timber and produce to the Pukekohe Station; but during six months of the year it is impossible for the work to be carried on. That only represents the traffic of about one-fourth of the districts that would be benefited by the railway. At Waiuku and the districts to the west produce hitherto has been sent by water to Onehunga; and, from the nature of the tidal creek, it is found that the transit is altogether unsatisfactory and too expensive. Still, at one time that traffic supported two steamers and several cutters. The passenger traffic is even now divided, many people preferring to ride to Pukekohe to enable them to reach Auckland and return the same day, instead of being two or three days absent, as they must be if they travel by steamer. I may mention this fact with reference to the value of the land in the district: that agricultural land near Waiuku, which was worth £5 an acre some years ago, has rather decreased in value, while land of similar quality, at about the same distance from Auckland on the railway line, has, during the same period, trebled in value ; thus showing that the settlers of these districts are actually, besides being losers through the opening of the Waikato Railway, prevented from becoming producers through the want of railway communication. The districts are very rich in timber especially suited for railway purposes. A very large proportion of the puriri which has been bought by Government for sleepers and building railway wagons, and by contractors for bridges in the North Island, has been supplied from these districts. It is evident that the timber so supplied cannot profitably be carted any very great distance. If, therefore, this proposed line were constructed, a great quantity of valuable timber would become available for the construction of other railways, and would for many years be a source of income to the Railway Department. At the price at which timber is sold at present it would certainly not pay to cart it more than 5 miles, whereas by having the railway extended to Waiuku the timber growing over 15 to 20 miles of country would become available, and would no doubt be conveyed on the line. The proposed line could be constructed at as low a rate as any line in the Provincial District of Auckland. 2686. Colonel Pearce.~\ Has any estimate of the cost been made ?—There has been an estimate made. Information relative to the cost will be produced. 2687. Was there any effort made to construct the railway under the District Railways Act ? —At various meetings held in reference to this subject the decision arrived at was, that it was not desirable to construct the line under that Act. 2688. For what reason? —The Act at present does not seem to be received with favour. I do not exactly know the reason. The principle is acknowledged to be right enough, but in the opinion of the people the Act appears to require amending. I may say that the people are quite willing to become bound to make up any deficiency in the cost of running the lino at first, for a certain number of years, until it becomes established, supposing there should be any deficiency, which is not anticipated. 2689. What is the cost of freight between here and Auckland by water ?—I cannot answer that question. 2690. Mr. Wright."] What is the present value of the land on the Waikato Railway which you say has been trebled in value by the construction of the line ? —I referred to partially-improved land, which brings from £10 to £12 an acre now. 2691. It was selling at one-third of that price before the Waikato line was constructed ? —Tes. 2692. You gave some statistics of the Pukekohe Riding : is that Riding altogether on the western side of the Waikato Railway ?—Nearly all of it is on the western side ; some portion of it is on the eastern side. 2693. Then the half of it, at least, must be served by the existing line ?—Very nearly the half of it is served by that line. 2694. What is the assessed value of the land in the district—the land between Pukekohe and Waiuku ? —About £4 an acre is the average value. 2695. And to what extent do settlers rate themselves for road-making purposes ?—There are several Road Board districts, and from 6d. to Is. is the rate on the value to let. The average rate would be 9d. 2696. Have any arrangements been made with the Government for purchasing the puriri sleepers produced here at a standard price ? —There have been advertisements in the papers for six months past stating that sleepers would be purchased at a fixed price of £17 10s. per 100. A great number have been supplied at that price. 2697. Can you say approximately what that number is? —About 5,000 a month.
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2698. How long has this portion of the district been settled ?—A great proportion of the settlers arrived here in the beginning of 1865. 2699. Mr. Clark.] Do the statistics given for the "Waraku Riding include the Maioro District ?— Not all of it—a portion of it. 2700. Is the portion under cultivation added to the statistics given ?—A large portion is not under cultivation. 2701. Is it within such a distance from the Waiuku Township that it would be served by the proposed railway ?—Undoubtedly it would. I believe that, with the exception of the extreme point of this peninsula, at the south head of the Manukau Harbour, the whole of the district would be a feeder to^the proposed line of railway. Mr. E. Hamitw sworn and examined. 2702. The Chairman.] You have heard Major Lusk's evidence, and we shall be glad to know if there is anything which you wish to add to what he has stated ? —I have only heard a portion of Major Lusk's evidence, and as far as that portion is concerned, I fully agree with him. 2703. Can you give any information to the Commission as to the number of stock in the district ? —With reference to the number of stock in the whole district, I do not know that I shall be able to give you information; but I have made an approximate estimate of the number of stock that will probably bo conveyed by train. The following is an estimate of the traffic : Horses, 678 at 7s. 6d. each, £258; cattle, 11,010 (1,400 trucks at 155.), £1,050; sheep, 14,730 (365 trucks at 10s.), £182; timber, 9,159 tons at 45., £1,831; sleepers, 75,958 (at 30 to the ton, 2,530 tons at Is. Cd.), £189 ; posts and rails, 19,879 (say 100 trucks at Bs.), £42; firewood, 9,720 cords (say 1,600 trucks at Bs. 4<L), £1,332 ; timber, 108,000 feet, at 6(1. per 100 feet, £540; passengers, 31,108, £3,233. The value of the traffic may be stated at about £7,990 per annum. 2704. Is there any other point to which you wish to direct the attention of the Commission ? —I would direct the attention of the Commission to this point, that the line would be very easily constructed indeed. I have a statement which I submitted to a public meeting held here, which estimates the cost of constructing the line at £3,700 per mile. That does not include rolling-stock. I may state that that estimate is considerably in advance of the return laid before Parliament last session. 1 made that estimate in order not to mislead the meeting, and with the view of placing the matter as fairly as possible before the Commission. That would give a total expenditure of £44,400, supposing the distance to be 12 miles. With reference to the rolling-stock, I am of opinion that a very small sum would be required, inasmuch as a number of trucks and carriages are lying idle at the main Auckland Station, which, in my opinion, would be better utilized than lying there rusting. I have, therefore, not taken the cost of rolling-stock into my estimate at present. Allowing interest at the rate of 7 per cent, upon the sum of £44,400, it would amount to £3,108, whilst the working expenses will amount to £2.589 —making a grand total of £5,697. I have made a comparison with the working of the Auckland and Waikato line, and, taking the average of the mileage, it would give us an income of £6,559 for the year. From the rough estimate I have made, I consider that our return would be £7,991, or about 25 per cent, in excess of the average on the Waikato line. 2705. Mr. ClarJc] In making up an estimate of the revenue which you expect would be derived from this branch line, have you taken the tariff rates upon the mileage of the branch only? —I have taken the charge for the branch line only. 2706. Allowing a certain deduction for that portion of the traffic which would be carried for a portion only of the 11 miles? —Tes. 2707. A certain portion of this traffic at present goes on the main line from Pukekohe ? —A small portion of it does. 2708. Can you form any estimate of that portion which would be new ?—Well, I think that by far the greater portion of it would be new. 2709. That, in reality, this branch line ought to be credited with the profit which the additional traffic would bring to the main line? —Yes, that is the proper view to take of it. 2710. Have you based your estimate of the traffic upon the quantity of produce at present sent from the district ? —Yes. 2711. You have not taken into account the stimulus which the railway would give, and the increased produce that would be sent from the district ? —On only one or two items had I any information which would lead me in that direction. The greater portion of the estimate is simply made up of our actual export and import. 2712. You are scarcely in a position to estimate what the increased export from the district would be in the event of the railway being constructed ? —I would not like to give a positive answer to that question, because in some items there would be at least from 100 to 300 per cent, increase, whilst in others there would be even a very much greater percentage than that. In other cases it might perhaps be only 25 per cent. 2713. As regards cattle and sheep there would be little or no increase ?—ln sheep there would be a very considerable increase. In cattle also there would be an increase of from twenty-five to fifty per cent. 2714. Then that estimate includes stock which would be sent from the districts south of the Waikato Heads ? —Yes ; it would include cattle sent from there. 2715. And from Awhitu ? —Yes; from the whole country over which stock can be readily transported. 2716. Colonel Pearce.] Are you of opinion that the traffic at present carried on by water would go to the railway ? —I think almost all of it would. With, perhaps, the exception of a few passengers from the lower part of the peninsula forming the south head of the Manukau, all the traffic would go by the railway. 2717. Can you give the Commission any idea of the present traffic by water? —No, I could not state it exactly.
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2718. Are there both steamers aud sailing-vessels ?—Yes ; there are cutters and a steamer constantly trading to and from here. 2719. And what is the charge per ton for goods.?—The cost of transit of goods, both to and from Auckland, has been from 17s. 6d. to £1 per ton. lam informed that the cost of conveying the heavy goods is 15s. per ton. 2720. The distance from Auckland to Waiuku by the proposed lino would be 41 miles?—Yes, about that. 2721. Is any live stock taken by water ? —Some people have sent sheep, but the number has been very much reduced of late. The charge has been invariably Is. per head to Onehunga. 2722. Mr. Wright] How long does the journey between here and Auckland by water occupy ? — The fastest trip by sailing-vessel from here to Onehunga was made in three hours and twenty minutes. On an average, it is five hours' steaming to get from here to Onehunga. Of course that includes stoppages at the different calling-places. 2723. Then it is not practicable for the residents of Waiuku to reach Auckland and return the same day ?—That is quite out of the question. 2724. You spoke of over 75,000 sleepers to be exported from the district: are these altogether puriri sleepers ? —All puriri. There are very few matai sleepers. 2725. When you gave your estimate of the cost of constructing the railway at £3,700 per mile, was any allowance made for buildings ?—Yes, that has been included in the amount. A small sum has been allowed, as it is not presumed the Government would erect any costly buildings such as we see elsewhere, but such as would be in keeping with the station-buildings along the existing line. 272G. What is the width of the belt of country between Waiuku and the sea westward ? —Prom 6 to 8 miles. 2727. Is much of that land under cultivation ? —Yes. It is some of the very best land that can be found in the colony. There is a very considerable quantity of it under cultivation. There are eight special settlements along that belt of country, and they are in a most thriving state. Many of the people have erected comfortable houses, and have greatly improved and increased their original holdings. 2728. Colonel Pearee.] Is there any Crown land unsold in the district that would be served by the railway ?—There are several lots which we passed this morning, which will be served by the railway, still in the hands of the Crown, and which will realize fully £5 per acre. 2729. Mr. Clark.] Are you prepared to give any information regarding the average yield of grain in the district, so as to enable us to judge whether the land is suitable for growing grain ?—With reference to wheat, the average yield has been from twenty-one to thirty-five bushels to the acre in different years. 2730. And of oats ?—I could not say about oats, but I should say the yield has been from twentyfive to fifty bushels. 2731. Had the land under wheat-crops any special treatment as regards bone-dust?—With regard to some of the wheat-crops, the land was not properly worked, and the seed was put in the ground in . a very rough way. 2732. What is the average quantity of bone-dust applied in sowing grain-crops ? —I do not think it exceeds 3 cwt. to the acre. I have not heard of any one who has put a greater quantity on the land. 2733. Can you mention the average crop of potatoes ? —That, again, depends upon the season. This year being a very good season for potatoes, I have heard of several farmers who have grown as much as 12 tons to the acre. I presume the average would be between 7 and 10 tons. I may state that a great quantity of our best wheat-growing land is bush-land. The bush has been but recently felled, and the land is only now being brought into such a state that we could put wheat or any crop into it. I venture to say that the yield in a few years to come will be much greater per annum than it has hitherto been. 2734. Major Lush : A considerable number of small allotments of valuable land, which had been allotted to immigrants in 1865, have been forfeited by non-residence, and are now Crown land. There is also some very rich swamp-land, about 30 square miles in extent, in the district. It only requires a company to be formed to drain it to make it valuable. Portions of it have been sold at £2 per acre. 2735. Colonel Pearee.] Is that in the direction of the Waikato ? —Near the right bank of the Waikato. 2736. Mr. Wright, ,] You stated that the people of the district would be prepared to pay any deficiency that might accrue from the construction of this line : do you mean deficiency on the working expenses, and interest also on the capital sunk ? —I do not know that those attending the meeting went so far as to state that they would render themselves liable for deficiency and interest. They would make up any deficiency in working expenses. 2737. Assuming Mr. Hamlin's estimate to be correct, there would be sufficient to meet both working expenses and interest ? —Yes. 2738. Mr. Clark.'] Was there not something said going further than the guarantee you have stated ? —Some of the gentlemen have just reminded me that they did intend, for their own part, to do more —to become liable for interest, as well as deficiency in working expenses, so confident were they that it would not be required. 2739. And give security to the Government ? —Yes. The following is the area of land that wall be benefited by the railway : Mauku Eoad District, 60,000 acres ; Waiuku Road District, 70,000 acres ; Waipipi Road District, 75,000 acres. Stock can easily be transported from outside the actual district through which the railway will run, for an extent of 200,000 acres. Mr. Heywood Ceispe sworn and examined. 2740. The Chairman.] You are prepared to give the Commission some information in reference to the population within this district ? —Yes. I may state that the statistics given by Major Lusk are
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quite correct. "VVaipipi Highway District, 105 holdings ; population, 551. "Waiuku Highway District, 59 holdings ; population, 869. Mauku Highway District, 100 holdings : population, 520. Pukekohe "West Highway District, 120 holdings; population, 810. A great portion of this district will be benefited by the proposed line. 2741. Colonel Pearce.~\ "What is the average size of the holdings ?—They vary in size from 5 to 1,400 acres, the average being 60 acres.* The deputation withdrew. The deputation subsequently furnished the following facts with regard to the district which would be served by the proposed branch line of rail from Pukekohe to Waiuku: The number of acres rated in each highway district, and the number of ratepayers —Waiuku, 13,199 acres rated, owned by 75 ratepayers ; Waipipi, ]7,888 acres rated, owned by 178 ratepayers; Mauku, 23,854 acres rated, owned by 179 ratepayers; Pollok, 5,086 acres rated, owned by 49 ratepayers ; Awhitu, 12,000 acres rated, owned by 100 ratepayers ; Pukekohe West, 10,045 acres rated, owned by 178 ratepayers. Of the latter district, the proposed line would only benefit about one-half, the remainder being fully served by the present Waikato line. The Waiuku and Waipipi Districts have, in addition, a large number of acres still in the hands of the Government or the Natives, that portion in the Waiuku District consisting mainly of a large swamp of some 30,000 acres, easily reclaimable. A large number of landowners, through whose property the proposed line would run, have undertaken to give land for the line free of cost. There exist near Waiuku immense beds of superior fireclay, large deposits of iron, and good indications of coal. All cattle driven to or from the 90,000 acres of land known as the "Raglan Run" have to pass through Waiuku, and would form a considerable item in the traffic of the proposed line. There are in the various highway districts which would be benefited by the line, 759 ratepayers, working farms of an average size of 112 acres. It is hardly necessary to remark that a district so divided and occupied is, before almost all others, one likely to provide constant traffic for a railway. It may also be fairly taken into consideration that the land in this district was originally sold at extreme prices, it having been stated that Waiuku would be the great highway from the Waikato; that the confiscated land in this district was sold at an upset price of not less than 20s. per acre ; that immediately after such sale, the upset price of land in Waikato was reduced to 55., 10s., and 15s. per acre ; and then a railway was constructed to Waikato, enhancing the value of land in that district, and absolutely reducing its value in this district. According to the public works scheme, it was intended that owners of lands benefited by the expenditure of the loans should pay the interest on the same ; but the residents in this district have, up to the present, suffered injury rather than derived benefit from the expenditure of public money, but still have to pay their full quota of interest. Although the above is the case, the people of Waiuku and Waipipi do not ask that public money should be squandered in their district, but such is their faith in the line being a paying one that they are prepared to make themselves liable for a considerable sum annually towards the payment of working expenses and interest should the line not pay at first.
Hamilton, Monday, 24th Mat, 1880. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of Dr. Beale (Mayor), Messrs. J. B. Whyte, M.H.E., T. A. Whitaker, M.H.R., Vialou, Mcdarrigle, and W. C. Breakell. 2742. Dr. Beale made the following statement: We have pleasure in waiting upon you as a deputation from the Hamilton Borough Council, for the purpose of urging the commencement at once of the second section of the Thames-Waikato Railway, with the view to the completion of the line to the head of the navigation of the Thames River at the earliest date. The first section of the line is now nearly finished. The line will traverse a large area of fine country, and, besides, will open up communication with the Thames, which in itself will afford a large and valuable market to the Waikato settlers for their cattle and produce. We did not think it our duty to lay before you any statistical information, because we deemed the fact of the commencement of the first section would be a guarantee. We feel convinced, however, that the line will be of a highly remunerative character, more particularly when the proposed branch line from Cambridge connects with it. We hope, therefore, you will see the importance of the work being pushed on without delay, more especially as the necessary appropriation of money has already been set aside by the Grovernment for the purpose. Mr. J. R. Vialou sworn and examined. 2743. The Chairman.'] I understand you are acquainted with the country between Hamilton and Te Aroha ?—Tes. I know the Hamilton and Piako country. I think it is capable of growing grain to a very great extent. If the railway were constructed, it would afford facilities to the Waikato District to supply the Thames market. That would be one of the greatest benefits of the railway. There is a very large tract of country here capable of producing a large quantity of grain. 2744. In the first instance, would not the traffic by the railway consist chiefly of the transport of cattle and sheep ? —Tes ; but I think there would be a large passenger traffic also. 2745. Would there be any considerable traffic in coal ?—There is no doubt about it. The coal would go from here, because there is not much coal in the Piako country, and in a great part of it there is none. There would also be a large consumptiou of coal at the Thames. The coal found here is the best kind for the purposes of the Thames people, and it could be sold there at a much lower cost than it could be obtained at from Auckland. 2746. Is there any probability of an export of timber from-this district? —No ; but there is a probability of an export from the Thames. We should take a large quantity of timber from the Thames, because there is no kauri here, while at the Thames there is any quantity of it. At present we have to get our timber from Kaipara.
* This would apply to land under cultivation and I find it would be rather under the mark. There is also a largo quantity of land now in its natural state, that would be at once brought into cultiyation if the proposed line of railway were carried out, which would gire more work for the Hue. —H. 0.
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2747. Can you give an idea of the area of land available for the purpose of grain-growing?—No ; but I know there is a very large tract of country available for the purpose. lam now speaking of the Piako and Te Aroha country, which the line would pass through. One of the best proofs of the quality of the land is the fact that the Lincolnshire farmers are most favourably disposed to buy the Te Aroha land. 2748. Mr. Wright.'] Did I understand you to say that the principal value of the railway line would be as a means of carrying produce to the Thames ?—Tes ; and also as a means of carrying produce to Auckland from the Piako. 2749. Is not the Te Aroha land, which you speak of as being applied for by the Lincolnshire farmers, on the banks of the Thames river ?—Yes, on this side of the Thames. 2750. But convenient for communication by steamboat? —Not so much by steamboat as by rail. 2751. If it is on the banks of the river, where is the difficulty ? —Steamboats can only go a certain distance up the river. 2752. Do not steamboats run up the river beyond Te Aroha ? —I believe one or two small steamers have gone up. 2753. Have any grain-crops been raised in this district ?—Tes. In the Matamata District large quantities are being grown at present. 2754. Mr. Clark.] "Would the passenger traffic you speak of consist of residents on the proposed line between Hamilton and the Thames ?—I think there would be a great increase of traffic from Cambridge to Hamilton ; but the passenger traffic I speak of is between the Waikato and the Thames, and is apart altogether from the settlers between the two points. 2755. Mr. Wright.] What communication is there at present between Te Aroha and Grrahamstown ?■ — l do not know. There cannot be very much traffic there at present, because they have no means of carrying it. I think there is a steamer running between Te Aroha and the Thames ; but they cannot at present carry the heavy traffic, which would consist of coal and timber, for want of a railway. 2756. To what extent is the country settled beyond Cambridge ? —Some portions of it have been cut up ; and I think about 40,000 or 50,000 acres of land are in the hands of private people, and are being brought into cultivation. Mr. "William Coklass Breakell, C.S., sworn and examined. 2757. The Chairman.'] I understand you have made a survey of a line of railway to connect Cambridge with the Thames-Waikato line ? —Tes. 2758. And also that another survey has been made by Mr. Q-vvynneth ? —Yes. 2759. Will you state your reasons for preferring the line which you have surveyed ?—Firstly, my instructions were to choose the nearest and best route from Cambridge to the Thames Valley Kailway; secondly, the route I propose is very favourable indeed for railway-making, being more inexpensive as regards formation; thirdly, it opens up a large block of land which at present has no immediate connection with any town or market; fourthly, the settlers are willing to give all, the land required, and to provide the outlet which may be necessary for the railway where it passes through swamps. A " legal document giving the land has been signed by all the settlers. 2760. "What are the lengths of the two lines? —Eleven and a quarter miles is the length of my line. It also avoids a second crossing of the Waikato. I believe the length of the other line is 13J miles. 2761. Is the second line more expensive in construction than your own?—Tes. I consider my line will be cheaper per mile than the other, even apart from the cost of the bridge. 2762. Does Mr. Q-wynneth's line go mainly through purchased land ?—No; it follows the highway nearly the whole distance. 2763. Is the land on each side of that highway private land ? —Tes. 2764. And also on each side of your line ? —Tes ; with the exception of a portion which runs along the tramway, two chains wide. 2765. Mr. Wright.] What prompted the settlers to undertake the cost of surveying a second route from Cambridge to the Te Awamutu line ? —To the best of my belief, a few people thought it would be more beneficial to a certain district to have the railway running through it, and near their particular properties. 276G. Is there an equal amount of cultivation along both routes ?—There is more cultivation along Mr. Grwynneth's line, because there are two main roads running there, and also the river, while there are no roads on the other route. The land on Mr. Gwynneth's route is opened out now as much as it can be opened. 2767. You speak of your line opening up a district having no communication with the outside world: do you not consider that the Waikato River affords reasonable communication with Cambridge ? —With Cambridge itself; but not with the district between the Thames Valley Eailway and Cambridge. 2768. Colonel Pearce.] Have either of the lines been reported upon by a Government surveyor ?— No. When a deputation waited upon the Minister for Public Works, he informed them that the Engineer in Charge would report on each set of surveys. 2769. Are they flying surveys or working surveys ? —-My own were just as good as working plans, with the exception that the pegs were not laid out on the ground. The estimated cost of my line, including rails and sleepers, but not rolling-stock, is £28,000. 2770. Mr. Wright.] Does your route avoid an additional bridge over the Waikato, while Mr. Grwynneth's requires an additional bridge ?—Tes. 2771. Mr. Clark.] Do you consider that your line would serve more country which at present is insufficiently served ? —Tes. 2772. What is the difference between the two routes as regards the distance from Cambridge to Auckland via Hamilton ? —About 3 miles in favour of rny line. 2773. What is the difference between the two routes as regards the distance from Cambridge to the Thames? —About 11 miles in favour of my route, as against Mr. Grwynneth's. 20—E. 3.
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Cambhidge, Tuesday, 25th Mat, 1880. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of Messrs. 11. H. D. Pergussou (chairman of Eailway Committee), J. Sheehan, M.H.E., F. Whitaker, M.H.E., J. B. Whyte, M.H.E., James Eunciman, W. Leslie, E. B. Walker, W. Williams, W. A. Graham, T. Wells, J. P. Campbell, Gwynneth, Breakell, and Major Wilson. 2774. Mr. Fergnsson made the following statement: We have been deputed to see the Commission with regard to the formation of a branch line to Cambridge from Hamilton. We feel ourselves very much left out in the cold through not having a railway line to Cambridge. Buchaline would be the means of opening up a great deal of back country which is now in course of settlement. There is a very large extent of country here belonging to McLean and Co., and there are large blocks now going through the Native Land Court which, no doubt, will be settled in a very short time. The settlers in Cambridge are so firmly impressed with the desirability of constructing a railway that they have had two routes surveyed at their own cost by competent engineers. It is not for us to say which is the best line. That must be left to persons who are experts, and I think everybody is perfectly willing to leave it to them. Mr. E. H. D. FEKGUSSoif sworn and examined. 2775. The Chairman.'] I understand you wish to produce some statistics of probable traffic on the proposed railway line from Hamilton to Cambridge ? —Tes. 2776. The Chairman.'] What are the chief items of produce which could be relied upon to furnish traffic for a railway between Hamilton and Cambridge ?—At present the principal traffic up the river is fencing and building materials, stores and merchandise of all sorts, and everything required for farming purposes. Coal would also be an item of traffic. The down traffic would be principally cattle and potatoes. lam afraid there would not be much wheat at present. 2777. Looking to the future, do you think the district is capable of producing grain in any considerable quantities ?—I think so. Our country is very new. Ten years ago there was hardly any settlement at all in Waikato. In fact, all this upper part of the country above Cambridge has been settled within the last four or five years. In the course of a few years I believe we shall be able to grow grain—especially oats —very profitably. 2778. Mr. Wright.] What is the assessed value of land in this district?—l should say from £G to £12 an acre. There have been sales lately at £9 and £10 an acre. 2779. Is there any building-timber in the district, or would that form an item of railway-carriage? —That would be more an item for railway-carriage from Auckland to Cambridge. There is no kauri here. We have white pine, but that is not good. 2780. Can you give an idea of the population in this district ?—I believe the population of the Town of Cambridge is about a thousand. I am not at all sure as to what is the population of the outside district. 2781. Colonel Pearce.] In advocating the line to Cambridge, do you propose that Cambridge should be the terminus, or is it part of a scheme for further extension ? —I think the main line to Wellington must eventually go by Cambridge. In the meantime Cambridge would be the terminus ; but eventually, there is no doubt, the railway would go this way to Wellington. 2782. But not as part of a scheme for opening up the country beyond Cambridge ?—We did not advocate that it should do so at the time we recommended it. 2783. Is there any immediate prospect of traffic from the district beyond ? —lf the railway were made there would certainly be traffic from there. 2784. Are you of opinion that the great southern line will go from Cambridge by the East Coast, instead of connecting Te Awamutu with New Plymouth ? —Yes. I understand that Mr. Mackay surveyed a line through there which was considered a very good one. 2785. Do you think so because it is better country, or for Native reasons ?—For Native reasons, principally ; and from what I hear I believe the West Coast route is not a very good country for rail-way-making. 2786. Mr. Clark.] If the railway were opened from Hamilton to Cambridge, do you think that settlers' and storekeepers' goods, instead of coming by steamer from Ngaruawahia, would come the whole distance by train ? —1 think there is not the slightest doubt of it. 2787. The railway you advocate would have the effect of securing additional traffic for a portion of the line already constructed —namely, from Ngaruawahia to Hamilton ?—Yes. That is one ground whv we urge the construction of this line. 2788. Did I understand you to say that there is a considerable extent of country suitable for settlement behind Cambridge, which would be served by this proposed line of railway, even with Cambridge as the terminus ? —Yes. McLean and Co. alone have something like 35,000 acres. Several large blocks which are going through the Native Land Court at the present time would be very much "benefited by the railway, even if Cambridge were the terminus. If it were carried through, it would benefit that country much more. 2789. Do you think that the country is of such a character that, even apart from this branch forming part of any through line —say, to Wellington—it might be desirable at a future day to carry it farther, in order to serve the back country you speak of? —I think it is very likely that it will be carried some miles farther, even supposing it is not carried right through. Mr. Thomas Wells sworn and examined. 2790. The Chairman.'] I understand you wish to give evidence with respect to the proposed line from Hamilton to Cambridge ?—Yes. Between three and four years ago very full and reliable statistics were compiled with respect to the Cambridge District. By that Ido not mean the Town of Cambridge and the little bit of land between here and Hamilton, but the country which extends beyond Cambridge for a radius of 30 or 40 miles, and which consumes two-fifths of the entire carrying trade of the Waikato. Cambridge has undoubtedly progressed very much faster than any other portion of the
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district, and the country opened up beyond Cambridge lias increased more than tenfold in proportion to any other district. On. the other side the land is locked up; and therefore we certainly consume two-fifths, and probably more, of whatever the railway is carrying now as far as Ngaruawahia. 2791. Mr. Wright."] Do you consider that the construction of this branch would bring the whole of the traffic from Ngaruawahia to Cambridge, notwithstanding the competition by the steamboats? — Undoubtedly—for the simple reason that it would be so much cheaper. I have had a great deal of experience, both with the railway and steamboat traffic, and I am certain that I now pay 20 per cent, more for the carriage of my goods by steamer than I should pay if the railway ran right through. 2792. I find, in the statistics which have been handed in, that the railway charges are put down at 10s. 6d. from Hamilton. The steamer charge is 15s. 6d. Is that the rate charged by steamers for the carriage of goods from Hamilton to Cambridge ? —I know very little about that; but the rate from Ngaruawahia is £1. We have, comparatively speaking, but little traffic between here and Hamilton; but the proposed railway would connect us with the capital. 2793. By the construction of 10 miles, the railway would get the traffic over 40 miles ? —Yes. In this district we have no timber, bricks, nor coal, and the whole of our supplies would come by rail. 2794. Do you think there is any risk of competition through the steamers reducing their charges materially ? —They could not do so. The Waikato is a shallow and rapid river, running one way continuously. Steamers carrying little cargo, but at the same time very powerful, have to be built specially for the trade. I have run steamers myself, and I know the trade well. 2795. To what extent is the country beyond. Cambridge settled ? —More or less for 30 miles. 2796. Can you state approximately the number of settlers ? —No. I have been through to Taupo ; and a large portion of the country is good. Beyond Cambridge there are 250,000 acres yet to be settled upon. The Government have completed negotiations for the purchase of land to carry the main line right through from Cambridge to Eotorua. There is -splendid country right through, for which this must be the outlet. Even now wagons come to Cambridge for goods from the principal stations, 25 to 30 miles distant. It would reduce the cost of goods materially if we had a railway. The railway would also secure the passenger trade to the Lakes. 2797. Is not nearly all the land you speak of, for 30 miles distant, in the hands of Natives? —I think the greater portion of it is in the hands of Europeans. McLean and Co. own one of the finest properties in this neighbourhood; and Mr. Fergusson's property extends for 15 miles beyond this. 2795. Colonel Pearce.~\ Is there any prospect of wool being sent from this district F —Yes. Wool is grown in large quantities now. Mr. John Sheehan, M.H.R., sworn and examined. 2799. The Chairman.~\ Would you please state to the Commission what evidence you wish to give? —I wish to make a statement with regard to one subject with reference to which a question was asked—namely, as to what steps had been taken with a view to making a survey of the proposed railway route from here to Napier. When I came into office myself, the position was this : Mr. Mackay had taken a flying survey party from Cambridge down through this country as far as Taupo. From the Napier side there had been explorations northward with a view of discovering a practicable gradient, but with no result up to that time. I think the matter remains much in the same position at present. At the time of Mr. Mackay's flying survey, objection to the construction of that line was mainly taken on the ground of the difficulty of connecting the line with the West Coast; but some eighteen months ago a survey party employed by the Government discovered a perfectly practicable line of road from the Manawatu River, running on an easy grade all through into the Taupo country, and connecting there with Mr. Mackay's flying survey. I have had a great deal to do with this question. At one time I was impressed with the importance of taking a connecting line to Taranaki from Te Awamutu through the country by Mokau. I now feel convinced that that cannot be done for the next eight or ten years, and that, if the line is to be undertaken, it must be by way of Cambridge. I regard the extension of the line from Hamilton to Cambridge, not as a district railway, but as an extension of what must be a main trunk line through the North Island. I may say the one great object I had in view when in negotiation with the King people at that time was to open up the King country by means of a railway to Taranaki; and on the last occasion I had an opportunity of speaking to a number of influential natives here in Cambridge, twelve months ago, I was informed by them that they were prepared to allow the line to be taken through their country; but they could not answer for the other sections, as the}" believed the natives concerned would not consent. The country is not well known. Itewi, who came with these people to me, told me that we should find it a very difficult country to make anything like a good railway through. He also told me he was prepared to go with me and a survey party to lay down a line of railway from Cambridge through the Taupo country ; and, if the Government so desire it, they can at once acquire the land necessary for a line right through to Taupo. On the southern shore of Lake Taupo they are now in negotiation for several blocks of land, and they have acquired a right over them. As has been already stated by the deputation, you can travel from Cambridge for 20 miles by a good road going southwards, and you pass through some very good country, occupied, and much of it laid down in grass. As you turn your face towards the left-hand side of the road, going up for a long distance towards the Tauranga watershed, the country is in the same condition. Running down the southern Waikato Valley, which has the Tauranga watershed on the left-hand side going from here, is the whole of the Waikato and King country. Between here and where the Waikato is crossed by a bridge, there are over 400,000 acres of land in course of acquisition. The Native Land Court is now sitting, and the land is going through block by block. I presume the Court will not rise without disposing of 150,000 acres. With other persons, I came through that country twice in 1873, and I did not think much of it; but when we went back again we found that, where we could not get a feed for our horses before, the ground was being covered with grass and clover, self-sown. There could be no competition against the railway if the main trunk line were extended in this direction, because Cambridge is tha end of navigation, the river above being a succession of rapids and falls. I should like to point out to the Commission that the King country is roughly estimated to contain seven million acres, from Te Awamutu down to the boundary of the
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Taranaki Province. The greater portion of the very best of that land abuts on the Waikato River, and would be in very close proximity to the line of railway. I dare say that at no point would the line of railway for the next 40 miles from here be more than a mile or a mile and a half from the bank of the river, and in many cases it would run alongside the river-bank. The river is bridgeable in many places at a very small cost; and I have no doubt that, with the opening-up and settlement of this portion of the King country to which I refer, all of its traffic would find its way to the extension of the Cambridge Railway, and would find its way to Cambridge even supposing Cambridge were the terminus. I may say, with reference to one association I have to do with, that their negotiations cover about 200,000 acres of land, and they are bound by the conditions under which they are acquiring the land to put up every acre to public auction, and 25 per cent. —the best land in the block —on deferred payments. Should the negotiations progress, and the land go through the Court, Ido not think lam speaking beyond the tether in saying that within the next two years 3,000 more people will be living between the present limit of settlement and the Taupo Lake. If the present line came to Cambridge a great deal of the traffic which is conveyed at present along the coast between Auckland and Tauranga, and especially tourists, would come this way. It would enable people leaving Auckland in the morning to arrive in Cambridge in the evening, and they could go on horseback to Eotorua next morning. A coach-road is being made from Cambridge. You can now drive 35 miles from here. 2800. Mr. Wright."] Of the 400,000 acres you mention as being under negotiation, is there any considerable portion fit for agriculture—for wheat-growing?—A large proportion of it. It is fairly good agricultural and pastoral land. In that area there is bound to be some pieces of broken and mountainous country. 2801. Can you say what number of Natives are settled on this block of 400,000 acres ? —I suppose from 3,000 to 4,000 altogether. 2802. Have they reserves in that ?—They are making reserves in that part of the country as the land goes through. One strip lies along the river, and contains about 40,000 acres. 2803. Would the railway have to pass through land the Natives are reserving or selling ? —I think it will pass through land they are selling; but in neither case would it make any difference. They would be willing to allow the line to go through. Their feeling is quite changed. They are themselves making surve} rs which two years ago would have caused the loss of life. The most populous portion of the country is on the western bank of the Waikato, although it is King country. 2804. Mr. Clark.] You mentioned that a condition of the partnership between those who are negotiating for 200,000 acres of land is that it should be sold by public auction : is there any time specified in which it must be offered for sale? —No; but I think their bankers will settle that for them. 2805. So that practically it would be offered for sale in a limited time? —Yes. Two blocks have gone through the Court, and other blocks are being gone on with. At present there are six or eight different persons waiting in Cambridge to apply for land in those blocks, with capital ranging from £1,000 to £2,000 or £3,000. The 25 per cent, deferred-payment land is to be sold as soon as possible, in accordance with the existing waste land laws. Mr. John Gwynneth, C.8., sworn and examined. 2806. The Chairman.] Hav£ you surveyed the line of railway between Hamilton and Cambridge? —Yes. 2807. Can you state what would be the probable cost and what is the character of the line ?—lt is a very easy route for a railway. It is almost dead level country right through, with no cuttings or excavations. I have made an estimate of the cost. The principal reason for the selection of my route is that it will accommodate a greater number of settlers than the other one which has been surveyed. It goes through country where there are small settlers at present. It crosses the river above Hamilton and joins the main line about 5 miles higher up, nearer to Ohaupo than to Hamilton Junction. It also goes through the Waikato racecourse, and there would consequently bo a large traffic at race times. The country itself is a very good country for a railway. It is perfectly level with the exception of the crossing of one gully and the Waikato Eiver. The estimated cost of the whole line is £13,(500. That estimate was made because the Government said they would furnish the rails and sleepers for a company under the District Railways Act. The estimate was made in contemplation of the railway being constructed under the District Railways Act. Including rails, the estimated cost is £2,288 per mile, which is a very low rate. The general average cost of railways in this country has been over £6,000 per mile. As a guarantee of the correctness of my estimate, lam prepared to do the work myself for that amount, including the bridge across the Waikato. 2808. What is the advantage of your route to compensate for the increased mileage of 3 miles ? —If you have been informed that there is an increased mileage by my route you have been misinformed. The other route is the longer one. My line would be longer to Hamilton Junction by Similes ; but I was calculating the distance from Cambridge to where 1 join the main line. 2809. Are there any advantages which would compensate for the carrying of the traffic from Cambridge and the country round about an additional 3^ miles ? —Yes: there is the Te Awamutu District and the country above that to bo considered. There would be a good deal of traffic between Te Awamutu and Cambridge, and that would be benefited by my line. The country traversed by my route and Mr. Breakell's route is practically of the same character for the construction of a railway. 2810. Mr. Wright."] But then, your line has the disadvantage of placing Cambridge 3J miles farther away from Auckland?—Yes. 2811. Mr. Clark.] Is Mr. Breakell's line from Cambridge to the point of junction with the Hamilton and Thames line shorter than from Cambridge to the point of junction of your line with the Ohaupo line ?—My line is 13J miles in length, and the other line is 11£ miles in length. 2812. So that there is a difference of 2£ miles and a bridge against your line ? —Yes. 2813. Mr. Wright.] That is, assuming that the Hamilton to Te Aroha line is made, Mr. Breakell's line is shorter than yours by 2J miles, and it avoids another bridge over the Waikato? —Yes. 2814. Would not Mr. Breakell's route be a more direct route to the Thames?—Yes,
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2815. Is it not probable that there will be traffic between Hamilton and the Thames? —My opinion is, there will not bo traffic. 2816. But, for whatever traffic there may be to the Thames, would it not be shorter by Mr. Breakell's route than by yours ?—Yes. 2317. Mr. Qlarfc."] Would not the Thames population, being a consuming population, draw their supplies from the Waikato country if the lino were made ? —The Waikato would supply them with cattle and other produce. 2818. Would it not supply them with cattle, agricultural produce, and dairy produce?—Yes; but the difficulty is that there is nothing to return —there would be no back traffic. 2819. Would there not be timber? —I do not think so. The kauri would have to be conveyed by ship from Coromandel to the Thames,' and there be transhipped into wagons. 2820. What is the class of traffic between To Awarnutu and Cambridge ?— Nothing but pigs and horses. 2821. Is there exchange o£ produce of any kind ? —There is an exchange of sheep. Mr. W. C. Beeakell, C.E., sworn and examined. 2822. The Chairman.] Do you wish to give any further evidence with regard to the railway route surveyed by you ? —I only wish to add that the estimate I gave you included all expenses as regards management and all preliminary expenses. The actual cost of the work without fencing is £22,000. Mr. Feedeeick A. Whitakee, M.H.E., sworn and examined. 2823. The Chairman.] Do you wish to give any evidence with regard to railway matters in this district?—l think it right, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, after what fell from you last night in reference to the necessity of giving evidence on these matters, to bring together all the facts I am aware of in reference to proposed routes between Hamilton and Te Aroha. The Commission will understand me not to be speaking of the other end of the Thames line—from Te Aroha to Grahamstown. I know the capabilities of the country between Te Aroha and Hamilton thoroughly, having been in the habit of travelling over that country before it was settled six years ago. The length of line is, I believe, 30J miles from the present junction. The country through which the line passes is entirely flat from one end to the other. Erom Te Aroha to the junction there is not a single hill to be ascended. There are only two creeks to be crossed, and one bridge over the Waikato. The formation has been contracted for to the extent of 14 miles. I have been informed by Mr. Blackett and Mr. Oliver that the requisite iron and other material for the bridge over the Waikato has been ordered from England. Ido not think that the material which has been ordered would be suitable for any^other railway, owing to the exceptional nature of the crossing. The cylinders are required to be very high, and I understand that the work is of a peculiar character. 1 have heard it stated by Mr. Stewart that the material, if not used for this bridge, will be of no use elsewhere. The cost of what has been ordered from Home amounts to £6,000. The contract at present let amounts to nearly £10,000. The nature of the traffic would be principally timber from the Thames end to the Waikato; and coal, cattle, sheep, and produce from this end to supply the Thames, which has a population approaching 10,0C0. In saying 10,000, Ido not include the population in the settled districts on this side of the Thames through which the railway would pass. The district through which the line passes, and which it will open, consists of about 500,000 acres. In giving this estimate lam guided by the statement of the acreage in the different blocks in the neighbourhood of this line, and by my own knowledge of how far those blocks will be benefited by the railway. Eor instance, in a southerly direction from the line, towards Matamata, there are from 15 to 20 miles of country for which there is no communication at present. There are about 25 or 30 miles of country northward of the line which is not yet thoroughly under cultivation ; but I know its capabilities, and I am perfectly certain that it will very rapidly yield considerable produce, and will sustain a large population. At the Te Aroha, and along the banks of the Waiho, there are, roughly speaking, somewhere about 150,000 to 200,000 acres of Government land —land over which the Native title has already been extinguished in favour of the Crown. These lands would be permanently benefited, and their value very much increased, by the construction of .this railway. I allude more particularly to the Te Aroha, Waikerekere East and West, and the Waiho and Piako Blocks. The Piako Block, over which the Crown still retains the preemptive right, amounts to about 210,000 acres. In estimating the Government land which would be benefited, I have only taken what I considered to be the available cultivable land ; the balance, from my personal knowledge of the block, being too wet and too liable to flood to be brought under cultivation, although it is very fine land. It is mostly alluvial deposit. I would wish to point out to the Commission that a station at Te Aroha will bring the whole of the Tauranga District-—including Katikati and Stewart's Settlement —into direct communication, within two or three hours, of the terminus of the whole of this district. From the top of Te Aroha Kange can be seen the whole of the Katikati Plains and the Tauranga District. lam well acquainted with the whole of the tracks and road across that range, and have ridden over them on several occasions. A road could be constructed from Katikati at very slight expense, which would act as a feeder to this railway, and by means of which the people from that part of the country could reach Te Aroha Station easily in two hours, or, at the t outside, two and a half hours. I have ridden over the range to Katikati in two hours and twenty minutes. I have repeatedly conversed with residents in that part of the country who state that the whole traffic between that district and Auckland would be carried along the railway from Te Aroha through Hamilton. As to the capabilities of the land, as I have already said, there was absolutely no cultivation at all upon this country six }rears ago ; there are now, at the lowest computation, from 10,000 to 12.000 head of cattle upon the different farms which would be within reach of this railway Negotiations are on foot, and will shortly be effected, for the purpose of subdividing and speciallj settling large tracts of the country through which this railway will pass. I have also to point out that the " Lincolnshire farmers " are about to establish a settlement at Te Aroha, which will no doubt cause a considerable demand for, and a considerable subdivision of, other portions of land in the neighbourhood. Negotiations are now on foot for bringing out large numbers of a suitable class of
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immigrants to settle on that country. The cheapness with which the line can be constructed is hardly equalled in any other part of the colony except on the Canterbury Plains. I believe lam correct in saying that it is the longest stretch of level straight line in New Zealand. 2824. Mr. Wright."] lias the country 30 miles north of the Te Aroha line any other outlet ? —No. 2825. Must it all feed this railway ? —Yes. 2826. What extent of swamp-land will this railway from Hamilton to Te Aroha have to traverse?— Prom about 10 to 12 miles of swamp, and 2 to 3 miles of half-and-half swamp. 2827. Are there 10 miles of swamp beyond the present contract ? —The swamp is nearly all included in the present contract. 2828. Mr. Glarle. | In estimating the quantity of land which will be served by the railway, do you take all the country from the Waikato River to the Thames River ? —Tes,
Geahamstown, Feiday, 28th Mat, 1880. The Commission received a deputation, consisting of the following gentlemen : Dr. Kilgour, Captain Souter, Messrs. Brodie, Ehrenfried, McGregor, Carpenter, Hogg, Harcourt, Buttel, Mennie, Hollis, Hennelly, Dean, and J. A. Miller. Dr. KiLGOTJa sworn and examined. 2829. The Chairman.~\ Do you wish to give evidence with respect to the Thames-Te Aroha Railway ?—The statement I propose to make will take the shape of a history of the railway up to the present time rather than a mere statement of facts. From the time of the opening of this gold field up to the year 1872, and for some time after that, the population of the Thames was cramped up here— they had no outlet in any direction except by sea. This state of things pressed very hardly upon us, and about the year 1872 people began to consider what should be done. With that view they began talking of a railway from the Thames to the Waikato to open up the interior of the country. A committee was formed at that time, and in the following year, as a result of their exertions, the Government determined to make a flying survey of the line over which the railway would pass. With that view they gave a commission to Mr. Simpson to accomplish the work, which was done. This survey was printed and published at the Government cost. Shortly after the survey was made, a sketch-map lof the colony was published by the Government, in which the Thames and Waikato Railwav figured as a railway to be accomplished by the Government. After this, nothing of importance as connected with the railway took place, although the people of the Thames had frequent interviews with Ministers on the subject. These interviews, unfortunately, usually proved abortive. At the same time, I must say that the individual members of the Administrations which existed between the years 1873 and 1878 expressed favourable views as to this railway, more particularly Sir Julius Vogel. He was very favourable to the construction of this line, believing it would open up a most important country, and prove of great benefit, not to this district alone, but to the colony at large. Bringing down my statement to the end of 1877, when Sir George Grey became a member for this place, the matter was at once brought before him. Sir George Grey advocated the idea of forming a company to accomplish the work by private enterprise. This was considered for some time, and at last it was arranged that the District Bailways Act should be taken advantage of, if we could get the local bodies interested to be unanimous as to the propriety of constructing the work in this way. At the cost of a great deal of time and trouble the different local bodies interested formed a committee, which accomplished their work as far as it could be done by them —that is to sa3 r, they got their Bill ready for the session of 1878. I went down to Wellington, and was prepared to conduct the case for my constituents here if it had been necessary to do so. But when I arrived in Wellington I ascertained from the Grey Administration, which was then in power, that they had determined to construct the railway themselves. Accordingly, our labour up to that time was lost. But the Government determined to take up the work, and, as I believe most of you are aware, they did take up the work, and commenced the construction of the line both at this end and at the other. That is the history of the progress of the line up to the present time. I must add that the request which was made by the people of the Thames was not one altogether without foundation. They considered that a population so large as that of the Electoral District of the Thames —being about 12,000 people at the present time—and the population at the other end—being about 7,000 —and, added to this, a Native population of about 3,000 —making a sum total of 22,000 people who would be directly interested in the formation of the line—justified them in asking, on that ground alone, for the construction of a railway. The next important ground on which the Thames people rested their claim for the construction of the line was the large extent of territory which it would open up. A very great extent of territory is being opened up, and will shortly be tolerably densely peopled —because we are aware that certain bodies of men are about to settle on the lands to which 1 refer. Now, all these will form an important addition to the population of the country district. Then there were other considerations moving us. We produce a large quantity of gold. Since the opening of this field in 1867, between four and five millions in value of gold has been raised. The amount in value raised during 1879 was something like £1-78,000. This we consider is an important industry, and one which would be greatly benefited by intercourse with the outer world, and settlement; as the persons who carry on this work — the mining population —have always been exceedingly desirous to obtain homesteads in the country, their work not obliging them at all times to be continuously employed in the mines. We have also a timber industry, and a considerable number of saw-mills. We have a gum industry, in which no less than 250 men are engaged; and there are minor sources of employment, which make it of importance that communication with the outer world should be obtained ; and we know of nothing so likely to benefit us as the construction of a railway between here and the Waikato. 2830. Do you recollect whether the Government refused to allow the Thames and Waikato people to go on with their private Bill, stating that they wished to make the railway themselves ? —Yes, they
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did. It was intended to construct the line under the District Eailways Act by a company, and the money was ready for the construction of the line; and the Bill was only withdrawn on the express understanding with the Government that they would carry out the railway. ' 2831. M.r. Clark.'] In connection with the statement that the money was forthcoming for the construction of the line under the District Eailways Act, I wish to ask if that money was actually subscribed ?—Xo ; but it was promised to us by a capitalist, who informed us that, in the event of our Bill succeeding, he would advance the money. In consequence of that, steps were taken by us. 2832. Do you mean that a capitalist was prepared to take up the line merely as a private speculation, without any security upon the land in the district or rates upon that land ? —I think so. Ido not see how, under the District Eailways Act, he could have exacted any terms of that kind. He must have been prepared to comply with the terms of that Act. 2833. Mr. Wright.] Was the full amount necessary to construct the railway promised, or was it merely the 5 per cent, necessary to be subscribed under the District Eailways Act?—lt was the full amount for the construction of the railway. Captain 'William Soutek sworn and examined. 2834. The Chairman.] Have you a practical acquaintance with the navigation of the Thames Eiver ? —I have had a great deal of experience on the river. I have been several times up and down in boats; and I may say that I hold a certificate from London as a shipmaster, and I hold certificates as a pilot for nearly all the ports in Victoria and New South Wales. Mr. J. A. Miller, on behalf of the deputation, obtained permission to ask the following questions:— 2835. Can you say what sized vessels can navigate the Thames Eiver as far as Te Aroha ? —We have a very good instance in Mr. Firth's boat: that boat in going up the river has carried away her screw on many occasions. 283G. What is her draught of water ? —Three feet to 3 feet 6 inches. In summer she carries about 30 tons, and in winter 50 tons. She was built specially for the river. 2837. Has she carried away her screw in the lower part of the river, or in approaching Matamata ? —In the lower part of the river—that is, between Pairoa and Omahu. 2538. Then you think a vessel drawing more than 3 feet of water would not be able to go up the river ? —I am certain that in summer she could not: even the small boats are hardly able to do more than that in summer. 2839. What length of time does it take the steamers at present on the river to go from the Thames to Omahu ?—From nine to ten hours. 2840. Could you not walk the distance in that length of time ? —A good walker might. 2841. Is the river very tortuous throughout ? —Tes ; and the bed of the river is not clear of snags. 2842. Can you tell the longest time a steamer has taken in going up ? —I know that Mr. Firth's steamer has been laid up on the banks of the river sometimes for a week or ten days. 2843. Supposing the railway were running from here to Omahu, can you give a rough estimate of the length of time it would take to do the journey by that means in comparison with the river ? —lt would take about two hours by rail. 2844. Is the navigation of the river more difficult in summer than in winter?—A rery much so : in summer-time a steamer drawing 3 feet can hardly go up, while in winter a steamer drawing 5 feet or 6 feet might go up. In summer you cannot go up the Piako Eiver at all, but in winter you can go up when there is a fresh on. 2845. Could the steamer in which the Commissioners came down to-day get as far as the landingplace at Omahu in summer ?—I do not think so. I know that very often, when a small boat started from here in a fresh it would get up perhaps half-way when the fresh would go down, and then the boat would have to be left on the bank of the river until another fresh came. 2840. In summer is it possible to take any traffic up the Piako ? —No, it is quite dry. 2847. Have you had any experience in the matter of freights between the Thames and Omahu and between other parts of the colony ? —Tes. 2848. Comparing the freights between Wellington and Auckland and between the Thames and Omahu, how would they stand ? —About the same. 2849. With regard to the coal consumed here, would the price of coal be greater or less if brought by rail instead of by the present means ? —lt would be very much less. The distance from the coal mine to G-rahamstown is about the same, I believe, as the distance from the coal mine to Auckland. I believe we could get it here by means of rail for from 12s. to 15s. per ton, whereas it now costs about 245. per ton. lam speaking of the Waikato coal. The Waikato coal is brought here at present from Auckland by sea. I believe the cost of coal by rail would not exceed 13s. per ton. 2850. Is there a large consumption of coal at the Thames ? —Tes. It is part of my business ; and I know there is a large consumption of coal, and that it is likely to be larger, because the bush is being cut down in the neighbourhood. 2851. The Chairman^ Tou have stated that the time consumed in the voyage from Grahamstown to Omahu is nine or ten hours ? —Tes. 2852. How long does the return voyage take ? —lt depends a great deal upon the fresh in the river. Sometimes when there is a fresh in the river they have to steam easy for fear of getting on to the snags. I should say that it takes about two hours less to come down—say about seven or eight hours. 2853. Would there bo any difficulty or much expense in removing the snags in the river? —I do not think so. A fair amount of expense would do the work, as the water is very shallow. 2854. Is there any considerable quantity of timber eoming down the river which would be likely to form into snags again ?—No ; I think the snags are a very old deposit. 2855. In connection with the freight of coal from Waikato to the Thames, can you say what is the freight of coal from Kawakawa to Grahamstown ?—From 10s. to 12s.
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2856. Do you know if the coal at Kawakawa is equal in quality to that to be obtained from the "Waikato ? —lt is much better, especially for steam purposes. 2857. What is the price of the .Kawakawa coal sold in Grahamstown ?—From 255. to 355. The small or steam coal is sold cheaper than household coal. It is too small, as a rule, for household purposes, while the Waikato coal is large, and much better for household purposes. 2858. What is the price of Waikato coal at Grahamstown?—The retail price is about 30s. 2859. Is the price you mentioned for the Kawakawa coal also the retail price ?—Tes. 2860. Mr. Wright.] What is the cost of carrying coal from Auckland to the Thames ? —Six shillings. We have to pay 6d. wharfage and Is. for transhipping the coal from the wagons to the boats, and another 6d. wharfage here, besides cartage up to the yard. 2861. Tori speak of 30s. as the retail price. What is the wholesale price of coal from the Waikato ? —I do not think any of that coal has been sold wholesale here. It is generally used for household purposes, and is sold retail. 2862. What is the railway charge from Taupiri to Auckland?—Six shillings to 6s. 6d. 2863. That would leave something like 18s. for the coal at Taupiri? —The coal is sold in Auckland at 18s. to people purchasing here. If I send up to Auckland for from twenty-five to fifty tons of coal I have to pay 18s. there for it. 2864. And the cost of running it down from the mine represents 6s. ? —Yes. There is Is. 6d. for expenses besides in Auckland, and 6d. here, which makes up 2s. more. 2865. That brings the price at the pit to lls. or 12s. a ton ?—I am speaking of what they sell the coal at in Auckland : I do not know the price at the pit. 2866. You say the railway charge is 6s. or 6s. 6d.: must not the balance represent the coal-owners' price ? —Yes. 2867. If they want 12s. per ton for the coal at the Taupiri mine, how do you expect them to supply the coal at the Thames for 12s. ? —I believe the price at Taupiri is only ss. 2868. Then they charge a profit of 7s. per ton in Auckland ? —I suppose so. The supply from the Bay of Islands lias been short, and there has been a great scarcity of coal both here and in Auckland, and we are hardly able to get a supply now. 2869. With the opening-up of the Whangarei and Kawakawa coal fields will there not be more active competition ? —As far as we know here, the Whangarei coal is inferior to both the Taupiri and Bay of Islands coal. 2870. What is the principal product of the "Upper Thames ? What would form the staple article of traffic on the river coming down ?—I do not know what would come down, but I suppose that from 80 to 100 tons per month go up now, even with the present small population. 2871. Is there any cattle brought down ? —Yes, overland. They do not come down in the riverboats. Sometimes a few sheep come down; but the boats are not suited for that traffic. Cattle are driven down, 2872. Do you think cattle would form a staple article of carriage on the railway ? —I think so. 2873. Mr. Clark.'} What is the cost of importing coal from Kawakawa to the Thames ?—The freight is from 10s. to 12s. per ton. At Kawakawa the price of coal is 13s. 2874. You have stated that if this railway were opened coal could be delivered at the Thames from Taupiri at 18s. ? —I think it could be supplied here at a much less cost than that. If the coal is got at the mine for 6s. or 75., and as the freight by rail, the distance being about the same as that to Auckland, would be another 6s. or 75., I think that, allowing a little for profit, it ought to be under that price. 2875. You have mentioned that the wholesale price at Auckland is 18s. ? —'That is what it is sold at by five trucks. 2876. Would not the distance from Taupiri to the Thames be something more than the distance from Taupiri to Auckland ?—I do not think it would be over 10 or 15 miles more. 2877. Therefore, unless the owners of the coal pits were prepared to give an advantage to the Thames, it would have to be sold at the Thames somewhat higher than in Auckland ?—Yes. But I think there would be a very much larger quantity of Waikato coal taken here than is taken in Auckland, where all the other companies compete with the Waikato coal; and on account of our taking a larger Quantity here, the coal-owners might make a reduction of price in our favour. 2878. Colonel Pearce.~\ What is the annual consumption of coal in this place ?—Last year it was about 6,000 or 7,000 tons ; but then you must remember the Big Pump was stopped, and it caused a great many batteries to stop, so that it was rather a bad year to take as an average. 2879. Mr. Wriqlit.] Why do you think the coal-owners at Taupiri would require a profit from the Auckland people of 6s. or 7s. a ton, while they would supply coal to the Thames people without any profit whatever ? —I do not think they would supply it without any profit, but I think they would supply it at a much smaller profit on account of the large quantity of coal which would be sent here. 2880. That would depend upon their conscience or the competition of other fields ? —lf we could get coal at about 155., I do not think any other field could compete. 2881. Have you had any overtures from the coal-owners to lead you to suppose that they would sell at that price ? —No. 2882. Then it is reasonable to infer that they would ask the same price from the Thames people that they do from the Auckland people?—-I do not think so. If I took 1,000 tons of coal from them they would give me that quantity at a much lower price than they would charge if I only took 100 tons. 2883. Mr. Miller (on behalf of the deputation).] Eeference has been made to the Kawakawa and the Whangarei coal. Is not the supply from those places very uncertain? —Yes: vessels going there during the last five or six months have had to wait three or four weeks, and sometimes longer, before they could get a cargo. I have a vessel lying there now which has been there for four weeks, and she has only got a very small quantity on board at present. 2884. Has not the scarcity of this coal been the cause of the stoppage of the pump and of several batteries ? —That has been the result at different times, but not at present.
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2885. Is it not a fact that, in addition to snags in the Thames Elver, there are also sandbanks, which are not so easily got rid of?—Tes. 2886. You mentioned the case of one steamer sticking in the river for ten days. Was that on a sandbank ? —Tes. 2887. Is not the entire navigation dependent on the tide ?—No, not altogether. 2888. Between what portions is the navigation dependent on the tide ?—Between here and a little above Pairoa. Mr. "William Davies, Harbourmaster, sworn and examined. 2889. Mr. Miller (on behalf of the deputation).] Have you had any practical acquaintance with the navigation of the Thames River ?—Tes; I have been up the river several times, and know the whole of it. 2890. Tou have heard Captain Souter's evidence: do you concur with it?—l cannot contradict anything he said. 2891. Is there anything you wish to add to what he said ?—-No, except in regard to the Piako Eiver. I know that at the present time fencing-posts are lying on the wharf because they cannot be taken up there until the rain comes on. The only time when things can be taken up that river is in winter. 2892. Mr. Wright.'] On how many occasions has Mr. Firth's steamer lost her screw ?—I have heard that it has broken several times. It was stated to have been broken by coming in contact with snags. 2893. Was it broken to the extent of preventing her from pursuing her trip ? —Tes. 2894. Mr. Miller^] Do you know as a fact that steamers are constantly stuck on sandbanks in the river between here and Omahu ?—Tes ; very often for several hours together. That is irrespective of snags altogether. I also know that the bar has silted up considerably during the last few years. There used to be a depth of 6 feet at low water a few years ago, and at the present time there is only 4| feet at spring tides, which is a great drawback. Inside the river there is a considerable depth of water; but the bar is the great difficulty. 2895. The Chairman.] What do you attribute the silting to ?—Silt is brought down the river in larger quantities than was formerly the case. Probably it has been silting up for years ; but we have only known it for twelve years. It has silted up .18 inches during the last few years. 2896. Has the diminution of water on the bar lasted for any length of time ?—Tes ; it must have been for the last three years, at any rate. 2897. Do you know whether it has gone on gradually increasing, or has it taken place all at once ? —Gradually increasing, I think :it is increasing now. The freshes do not come down sufficiently strong to clear it out. 2898. Mr. OlarJc] Could flat-bottomed boats be constructed of sufficiently light draught to go up to Omahu without danger of being stuck on sandbanks? —Not without danger; and it would take a considerable time for them to get up. There are flat-bottomed boats now navigating the river, but it takes them a long time to go up and down. They have to depend upon the tide going up. 2899. What is the power of those steamers you speak of ?—From four to eight and ten horse power. They are mostly under 20 tons. Of course, Mr. Firth's boat is a larger one. 2900. Mr. Miller.] Is it not the case that small boats as well as large ones have damaged their machinery in going up ?—Tes. 2901. Was not the smallest boat on the river sunk on one occasion? —Tes. That is an accident they are liable to in going up the river. 2902. Would not the silting-up of the bar be accelerated by the crushing operations at Ohinemuri ? —lt may possibly be, but I think it is mostly mud brought down by the freshes. 2903. Do you recollect as a fact that a new steamer lost her screw in two trips out of four ?—- I know that she lost her screw once, but I do not remember the other occasions. 2904'. Mr. Wright.] Do the steamers now employed on the Thames River take as much cargo upwards as they can carry ? —I do not think they are always full. 2905. Do you know what they charge per ton between here and Omahu ?—Twenty shillings per ton from Shortland to Omahu. 2906. Are the steamers generally loaded on the down trip ?—-They are loaded both up and down to a great extent, but not full. A considerable quantity of potatoes comes down here from the Upper part of the river, and they take up supplies from here. 2907. Mr. Clark.] If a railway were constructed from Hamilton to the Thames would these steamers be fully employed at the present rates ? —lt would help them considerably. Of course, as the countrywould be settled we should expect a great deal more produce to be carried up and down. Last month 300 sheep came down on the steamers, and somewhere about 500 cattle came down overland. Mr. John Walkeb, mine-manager, sworn and examined. 2908. The Chairman.] Have you some knowledge of the consumption of coal at the Thames for mining purposes ?■ —Tes. 2909. What is your estimate of the quantity which is consumed annually ? —For the last four' years the consumption has been something like 13,000 to 15,000 tons per annum. That is for mining purposes alone. 2910. Can you say what was the coal which was consumed ?—Bay of Islands principally, and a little from Whangarei. Ido not think that any more than trial-parcels came up from Waikato. 2911. Can you speak of the relative qualities of the coal you have named?—We prefer Bay of Islands coal for steaming purposes. The Whangarei coal is also a very useful coal in its place. I have not had much experience of Waikato coal. 2912. What is the price at which Kawakawa coal can be obtained for mining purposes ?—Twentyfive shillings to 275. 6d. per ton at present. There is Is. to 2s. in favour of Whangarei. 21—E. 3.
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2913. In. the event of the price of the coal being|fconsiderably reduced do you think the consumption would be largely increased? —That would depend more upon the output of the mines. We must have coal, cost what it will, if we have the quartz to crush. 2914. Still, I presume the price of coal has some effect upon the profitable working of the mines ? —Yes. 2915. Can you state the consumption of eoal in any particular mine per annum?—Our largest consumer has been the Big Pump, which has consumed something like 300 or 400 tons per month. 2916. Are there many mines consuming as much or nearly as much as that ? —None so much as that. 2917. Colonel PearceP\ Were you present when one witness said the annual consumption was 7,000 tons ? —When I speak of a consumption of 13,000 tons I speak of previous years. Last year was an exceptionally dull year, because the Big Pump was stopped, and the output of the mines regulated by the Big Pump was also stopped, or partially so. 2918. So the present consumption is only about 6,000 tons per annum ? —The consumption for the past year was only that; but that year was an exceptional year. The Big Pump having been, started again, the consumption will increase day by day. 2919. If a line were constructed from the Waikato to this place, would you be able to use the Waikato coal instead of the Bay of Islands ?—Prom what I have been able to learn, the Waikato coal is very suitable; and if it could be landed cheaper than the Bay of Islands coal we should doubtless use it. 2920. Would it require to be substantially cheaper ? —A shilling per ton would turn the scale. 2921. Mr. Clarlc.~] In mentioning 255. 6d. as the cost of Kawakawa coal, does that include cartage from the beach ? —Yes. 2922. What would be the cost of the coal delivered on the beach here, excluding cartage ?—■ Twenty-three shillings to 245. per ton. It would depend on the freight—the freight varies from Is. to 2s. per ton ; and it would depend also on the price at the pit. 2923. What have you to pay at Kawakawa for the coal delivered on board ship ? —I have not to do with that miue ; but I understand the price is about 13s. Freights run from 10s. to 12s. 2924. Mr. Miller."] Has it come under- your notice that great inconvenience is caused by the ■uncertainty of the supply from the Bay of Islands and Whangarei coal mines ? —Yes ; on several occasions great inconvenience has arisen. 2925. Have important works been stopped on account of it ? —Yes. 2926. Mr. Clark.'] How often and how long ? : —I cannot speak distinctly; but the Big Pump has been stopped for days together. About three or four times to my knowledge it has been stopped for eix months previous to the last stoppage, and there has been a difficulty in regard to the supply since the Big Pump started again. 2927. Mr. Wright.] Are you aware that railway works are in progress in Kawakawa and Whangarei which will facilitate their output ? —No. Mr. Eobeet Comer, manager of the Moanatairi Mine and the Big Pump, sworn and examined, 2928. The Chairman^] Are you in the babit of using a very considerable quantity of coal in the operations you have charge of?—Yes. 2929. What is the consumption of coal for the Big Pump?—The consumption during the last six months has been over 300 tons per month; but in the meantime we are pumping easy, and it will not exceed 250 tons. Some six months ago we were pumping at the 400-feet level when the supply of coal fell short, and we had to stop for nearly a week. During the time we were stopped and at work again our force-pump got out of order. I told our Company that the cost of that stoppage for a week was £1,000. If we had easy access to another mine in order to obtain coal, that difficulty would be got over. 2930. Were there no other coals to be had?—Owing to the mail-boats and other steamers calling at the Bay for coals, we were unable to obtain them there. Vessels have gone away from here for coal, and have been obliged to wait for nine weeks at the Bay of Islands in order to get a cargo. In consequence of this delay we are obliged to take up all the Newcastle coal in the place, and keep the pumps going in that way. That is the reason why we want easy access to other coal, so that we shall not be obliged to pay extreme prices in order to carry on our work. 2931. Have you any knowledge of the Whangarei coal ? —Yes. 2932. Is it equal to the Kawakawa coal ? —No ; but, notwithstanding that, it is very good coal for steaming where there is plenty of boiler-room. 2933. Have the supplies from Whangarei been restricted in the same way as from the Bay of Islands ?—Yes ; we have not been able to get the coal to the water-side. 2934. Have you made any trial of the Waikato coal? —Yes. 2935. How does it burn in comparison with the Kawakawa coal r —lt is not so good as the Kawakawa coal for steaming purposes. 2936. Is it as good as the Whangarei coal ? —Yes ; it is better than the Whangarei coal. It is as good for steaming, and it is better for the fire. It is not so heavy on the bars. 2937. Do you calculate that, in the event of a railway being made from here to the Waikato, you would get coals not only more regularly, but also at a lower price? —We should certainly get the coal at a lower price, and it would greatly assist in carrying on the mines here. 2938. That is, you consider you would get the Waikato coal at a price so much lower than the Whangarei or Kawakawa as to be able to use it profitably? —I presume we should get the Waikato coal delivered here at the same price as it is delivered on the Auckland wharf —namely, 16s. 6d. per ton. 2939. In the event of your being able to obtain coal at a lower price, do you consider the consumption would be largely increased ?—Yes. 2940. Both in the undertakings under your management, and also in the other mines?—Yes; because we could spend more money on prospecting, we should get more gold, and the mines would be open to a larger extent.
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2941. You think that the difference of a few shillings in the price of coal would affect the working of the mines ?—Yes. The price of coal is a considerable item in a month. I believe it would make £50 a month difference to me now. - , . , 2942. Mr. Wright.'] What stock of coal do you usually keep on hand?—We have been in such a limited state that we have only had one cargo in when the other was down ; and we are just m that state now. . . 2943. Then the difficulty you have been subjected to has arisen from the insufficient stock on hand P—We have not been able to get it. The vessels have to wait at the Bay of Islands eight or nine weeks for a cargo of coals. 2944 Can you not get over that difficulty by importing a single cargo from Newcastle as a reserve ?—We were anxiously waiting, day after day, for'a cargo of coal; but then a big steamer came in and took it all away. 2945. How much do.es a cargo represent ?—Seventy to eighty tons. 2946. If you had 300 or 400 tons stock in hand, is it not a fact that you would then be liable to no embarrassment ?—We have had a stock of that kind in hand, but before we could get any more it has been all consumed. 2947 It being simply a question of interest, would it not be economy to the Company it they kept a larger stock?—Sometimes you cannot get it. You would have to keep from eight to ten vessels 2943 But would not a stock in hand always keep you safe against accident ?—We could not get it from that quarter. We could get it from Newcastle, but in that time all the other coal would be consumed. 2949. What number of miners are employed in the Moanatain Mine t— Close on 200. 2950. What is the total number of miners employed on the Thames Gold Field ?—There are over 3.000 practical miners at work. 2951. Mr. Clark.'] What is the difference in value for steaming purposes between the Kawakawa and the Waikato coal ?—About one-sixth. 2952. Colonel Pearce.j Assuming that the success of the proposed railway depended on the consumption'of Waikato coal at the Thames, can you express any opinion as to the permanency of the minin"- industry here?—l can only express the opinion I have expressed for years past: I believe that the Thames Gold Field is only in its infancy now. During the last six or twelve months there has been great depression on the Thames, but as the present time it is looking more healthy than it has done for several years past. I have every confidence in the Thames as a permanent gold field. 2953 Do you think the consumption of coal will be on the increase in future ?—I do. The congumption'is bound to increase as the mine begins to be opened up. Although we have water-power supplied by the County Council, that power cannot supply the whole, or half. We are bound to be large consumers of coal. , , 2954 Mr. Miller.] Can you give any idea of the difference in the price of coal it delivered by rail from Waikato, and the present price ?—The difference in price would be the difference in the 1g2955. What would be the probable charge for freight by railway ?—I think it should be carried down here for ss. a ton, or less. 2956. What is the present freight ?—Five shillings. 2957. Reference has been made to the small consumption of coal last year. Can you account tor the small consumption of that year in comparison with previous years ?—There has been very great depression at the Thames, and therefore the consumption was not so great. The Big Pump was standing idle for nearly six months. That prevented a great many other mines from using as much coal as they otherwise would. 2958.' Were you the owner of a steamer that traded between here and Oinahu f— xes. 2959' What has been your experience of the navigation of the river ?—lt has been very bad. It used to cost me a great many pounds through the propellers being carried away, and bending the shaft. My steamer drew 8 feet 6 inches when full. , 2960. Mr. Wright.] During the time the Big Pump was stopped, how many miners were thrown out of work ?— About 200. lam referring to the mines on the flat. 2961 Did that lead to any extra prospecting of the ranges for new reefs ?—Some of the miners did turn their attention to prospecting, and others left the district. The whole of those who prospected <*ot a little gold. On the whole I think they got wages. 2962. Did it lead to the discovery of any new reefs ?—Yes. These men did not open any new ground ; they have been only on the old ground. Mr. Alexajtoee Beodie, County Chairman, sworn and examined. 2963 The Chairman.] I presume you have looked into the facts of the case regarding the construction of the railway from the Thames to Waikato. The Commission will be glad to hear anything you have to say on the subject?—! have heard the evidence given by various witnesses, and I would like to make clear some points. The first is in regard to the coal from Taupiri: I have a thorough knowledge of the whole of the Waikato District as well as of the Thames Valley. I believe the distance from Taupiri to Auckland is 70 miles, and I think the contract price to the railway authorities tor delivering coal is 3s. 6d. per ton at the pit-mouth. The freight from there to Auckland is 6s. 6d per ton That would bring the coal up to 10s. per ton. The distance of the proposed railway from here to Hamilton is 62 miles, and the distance from Hamilton to the coal mines is about 24 miles ; so that, assuming that the coal costs 10s. delivered at Auckland, the extra 2s. would deliver it here. Ihis coal question is very important, as far as the Thames is concerned ; because if it could be delivered cheaply it would enable the battery-proprietors to crush cheaper, and the place would be benefited. Ihere would not only be a consumption of Waikato coal here, but there would also be a largo consumption of the coal in the various settlements that would spring up along the line of railway. Ihere is no doubt that, if the line were made, a large population would be settled along the route; and no doubt
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the Commissioners are aware that steps are now being taken for settling a large population on the Te Aroha Block. Then, again, timber is very scarce throughout the district which the railway will traverse, and whatever timber is left will doubtless be used for fencing purposes alone ; so that we have a right to assume that all the settlers along the line will be large consumers of coal, if they could get it at a reasonable price. With regard to the consumption of coal at the Thames, I can speak with some authority in the matter; because the County Council, in conjunction with the Borough Council, undertook to keep the Big Pump going two years ago, and I know that the consumption of coal in one year by the Big Pump was between 3,000 and 4,000 tons. With regard to the navigation of the river, I have travelled on it very frequently, and I know that flat-bottomed boats drawing only 2 feet 6 inches have been frequently stuck in the river 12 or 14 miles from here. Boats have also frequently to wait for the tide In regard to what has been said about the local bodies here wishing to construct the railway under the District Eailways Act, I may state that Mr. Morrin made an offer, on behalf of himself and some Auckland capitalists, to construct the line from Hamilton, provided they were guaranteed 6 per cent, on their outlay. After that, the Government took the line into their own hands, and decided to construct it. A map which we produce will show that a large amount of land in the hands of the Government will be enhanced in value by the construction of this railway. It is unnecessary to go into details as to the consumption of food in the district. It is sufficient to say that there are about 12,000 people to be fed. There is a large and magnificent valley to be opened up by the railway, and there is also, beyond that valley, a large extent of fine land, all of which must produce something; and the Thames will provide the outlet for the produce. The distance between Hamilton and Auckland is 84 miles by rail, and that is one of the worst pieces of railway that you could possibly travel over. The distance between Hamilton and the Thames is 62 miles ; so that there is a difference in our favour of at least 22 miles. All we want here is a port, which we shall no doubt have some day; and lam certain that people in the Waikato south of Hamilton will not be generous enough to convey the whole of their traffic for a distance of 22 miles extra for the purpose of benefiting Auckland, providing shipping facilities can be had here. 2964. Mr. Wright.'] What expense would probably be incurred in making a harbour at the Thames?—l believe Sir John Coode has estimated that £14,000 would give a depth of 13 feet. However, large works were contemplated, which would cost £130,000, in order to provide 19 feet to 20 feet. The Waikato country is a country almost destitute of timber; and all the kauri timber now consumed there is taken up from Onehunga to Waikato. Here there is abundance of timber. One mill cuts nearly 50,000 feet per week ; and there is another mill cutting kauri sleepers up the river. There are some others cutting white pine; so that, if a railway were made, there is no other district which could compete with us in supplying timber cheaply. The forests here are not likely to be exhausted for twenty years. 2965. In your opinion, the construction of the railway from Hamilton to the Thames would cause a large amount of traffic to find its way here that now goes to Auckland ?—No doubt that would be the case. 2966. Would not that be to construct a line which would compete against the Government line already constructed ? —I do not think the Government line should be kept there if a better one can be constructed elsewhere. If the line already constructed cannot give the facilities required of it, it should be done away with. 2967. If the line already constructed does not pay, is it the duty of the Government to make another to supersede that line ? —No ; but this line that we advocate is authorized by Parliament. It is a line that was promised before the Auckland line was taken in hand, except that portion which formed the Auckland and Drury Railway. 2968. You stated just now that coal was supplied to the Government at Taupiri at 3s. 6d. a ton ? —Tes, at something like that. 2969. If the Government are paying 10s. a ton, instead of 3s. 6d. a ton, of course your evidence would be modified to that extent ? —Tes, it would, no doubt; but one man tendered below that, and, because the other coal was better, the higher tender was accepted. 2970. You spoke of an offer having been made to construct this railway provided the local bodies guaranteed 6 per cent, on the capital: did the local bodies agree to guarantee 6 per cent. ?—They proposed, with a modification of the District Railways Act, to guarantee it. We intended that the Government should contribute a little more than 2 per cent., which the District Railways Act provides: we wanted i per cent. more. We prepared a Bill at an expense of about £200. 2971. From what source would, the local bodies give a guarantee ?—They were going to strike a certain rate on the lands benefited by the railway. 2972. Did all the local bodies agree to that F —Yes —the Waikato, the Piako, and the Thames. The Borough Council of Hamilton, the Piako County, the Waitoa County Board, and even the Cambridge Council, agreed. They all assisted in drafting this Bill. Mr. Firth wanted the railway only to go to what is called the head of the navigation of the river, but he gave in. 2973. What were the grounds of his objection to constructing the railway down the Thames ?— He thought the river should be made suitable for navigation; but any one who has had any experience of river traffic knows that a lot of transhipping means a lot of expense, and that would be fatal under our circumstances, where a shilling would make all the difference between paying and not paying. 2974. Colonel Pearce.] Where would the kauri timber come from to feed the railway ?—There is any amount of it in this district. About 6 miles from here along the road sleepers are being cut. 2975. Do you anticipate that there would be a large trade between the Waikato and here in kauri timber ? —Yes. When 1 was at the Waikato I saw kauri timber which had cost 30s. per 100 feet. I am certain it could be supplied from here at 10s. per 100 feet, exclusive of freight. 2976. In addition to the coal and timber, what other traffic would there be ? —Cattle would come from the Waikato, and all the produce would come down that way. Before the war the Natives used to bring large quantities of grain down the river. If they could grow grain, it may fairly be assumed that white men could do so. The trade would be created by the railway. In addition to that, if there was a guarantee given that the railway would be constructed, you would see that the township lands
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in Te Aroha would be very much increased in value. It is also possible that a gold-mining population might be settled at Omahu. Reefs have been discovered which have given 15 dwt. to the ton. It is not improbable that, at no distant date, the same class of machinery will be working there which is now working in this neighbourhood. The reef system has been traced the whole distance up to Te Aroha, and, in addition to that, all the ranges are covered with kauri timber. 2977. To supply that district would the line require to go on the right bank of the river?—Any line between here and Hamilton should go near an important part of the district like Te Aroha. 2978. Would a line of railway suffice for the timber trade, whatever side it went ?—For the kauri timber this side would be the best; for the white pine the other side would be the best: it would suit both parties if the line crossed at Pairoa. 2979. Mr. Wright.~\ Can you give any opinion as to the character of the flat land between the Thames and Piako ?—I can only speak from hearsay. I was always under the impression that it was a swamp which you could not walk over; but I was surprised a fortnight ago to see it partly settled and growing beautiful grass not far back from the river-bank, 2950. Mr. Miller.~\ Is it not the case that this proposed railway would run through a large quantity of land at present held by the Government ?—Yes ; nearly the whole of it is held by the Government. 2981. Have you any doubt as to the line being payable?—Not the slightest. If I did not think it would pay, I would not be one of the committee to urge the construction of the line under the District Railways Act. Mr. Eheenfeied, Mayor of Grahamstown, sworn and examined. 2982. The Chairman.] Would you state to the Commission what evidence you wish to give ?—I wish to call attention to the fact that we have the steamer " Enterprise " coming here three times a week, and the " Rotomahana," from Auckland, carrying from 250 tons to 300 tons a week alone. The most of their cargoes consists of produce, which no doubt, when the upper country is settled, will come through the Thames Valley to this place. Besides these two steamers, we have cutters and schooners trading, which increase the imports to considerably over 500 tons per week. As far as coal is concerned, I do not think that subject is exhausted, because, in addition to the coal used by the mines, there is coal used by the shipping trade and by the steamers plying at present, which would amount to probably over 2,000 tons per year. Then, again, the coal consumed by the inhabitants here, based upon the calculation we have made, would amount to another 6,000 tons or 8,000 tons per annum. In addition to the coal at the Waikato, I may mention that we have a coal-mine within 20 miles of this place, which has not been developed simply because we have no communication whatever. It has been worked, and has been proved to be capable of being worked at a very cheap rate. That coal could be produced as cheaply as the Waikato coal, and the cost from the mine to Grahamstown would not be half that to Waikato : it would be quite close to the line of railway, although it might require a small branch. If we were able to procure coal here cheaper by means of a railway, it would increase the earnings of the mining population a great deal, because, if the coal were sold at a cheaper rate, the mines would be able to work quartz which cannot possibly bo made payable now. The whole of the produce which is brought here would undoubtedly come from the Waikato when we have cheaper communication. We are at present getting potatoes in very large quantities from the south of the colony : they cannot possibly be brought here from the Waikato by the Thames Valley just now, because, if the potatoes are sold at £3 to £1 a ton, it would be better for them to let the potatoes rot in the ground than to bring them here, on account of the expense of freight. The freight by rail should not exceed 10s. per ton. We think that, besides the traffic which we are certain of just now, a great deal of traffic would be created by the largely-increased population which would be settled in the Waikato. For instance :In my own business I send to the Waikato about a hundred barrels of beer monthly. A very small portion of that does occasionally go up the river, but the greater portion has to go to Auckland ; from Auckland it is carted to the railway, and conveyed thence to the Waikato. If we had communication with the Waikato direct, I could deliver the article which I produce at a freight of something like 10s. per ton, and it would increase that traffic very materially. The means of conveyance by the river are not to be depended upon. Ido not think in the whole year you could send freight up the Piako River more than two or three days together. The Waihou River, as far as Omahu, could be made available occasionally at 20s. per ton. If you wish to go farther up the river the freight is much heavier. Ido not think freight could be sent up to Matamata at less than £2 a ton. I think it will cost Mr. Firth, who has built a steamer, £3 or £4 a ton for his freight, because his steamer is altogether too large for the river. As far as the construction of the railway is concerned, I. know, from the experience I have had here, that a large number of the population are simply wraiting till there is some certainty of the railway being constructed : when once they feel certain of that, I know they intend to settle in the Thames Valley. I fully believe that the increase in the value of the land belonging to the Government will fully compensate them for their outlay in the cost of the railway. Besides the articles mentioned already, we have a large trade in gum from the Puriri. I think that between 500 tons and 600 tons of gum have been brought down here during the last twelve months. If it is the intention of the Government to settle the Thames Valley, it must find an outlet for those people who may be settled there; and they cannot find a better market than the Thames, which is entirely a consuming population, and consists of about 12,000 people. 2953. Mr. Olark.~\ Where are the gum-fields which you speak of ?—For instance, there is the Hikutaia, and also a large portion of Piako. It extends as far as Waikato. Gum has also been found in the vicinity of Hamilton. I believe the whole of the country between here and Hamilton will produce very large quantities of gum. 2984. Can gam from Hamilton be shipped as cheap from Grahamstown as from Auckland?—No. I only mention this to show you how far the gum-field extends. It commences from Tairua and goes up as far as Hamilton; but Ido not think any gum obtained at Hamilton will be shipped here. 2985. Mr. JVright.~\ In what part of Waikato do you expect that potatoes will be grown to supply the Thames ?—I think the whole of the Thames Valley will produce potatoes. I think, for instance, that in the country between Waihou and Waitoa there are millions of acres admirably adapted for the growing of potatoes, barley, and even wheat.
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2986. Are you aware that in the South railway-carriage of 30 or 40 miles absolutely precludes the cultivation of potatoes for export ?—Yes ; but you have to consider that here there are 12,000 people to maintain, and that we have to go to much greater expense than people in the South, as far as potatoes are concerned. Potatoes, at present, are shipped from Auckland after they have ueen conveyed to Auckland by train, and then we have to pay wharfage and cartage in addition to the 6s. per ton freight from Auckland to G-rahamstown. The average price here for potatoes during the season is about £5 to £6 per ton. The heavy freight charges retard our progress very much, and that is why we wish to have communication with a producing country. _ 2987. Is the land between here and Puriri in the hands of the Crown or in the hands of Natives t —Some of it is in the hands of Natives, and some is in the hands of Europeans. 2958. Is any portion of the land under cultivation ?—Very little of it. 2989. Has not the extreme price of £5 or £6 a ton for potatoes induced cultivation in this neighbourhood ?—Up to the last ten months we have not even had a road, or anything more than a bridletrack, in order to reach that country. It is only within very recent times that any land has come into the possession of the white population. , 2990. And from Puriri upwards, on the right bank of the Thames, m whose hands is the land f— A portion of it belongs to a gentleman named Mr. Elliott, who came up here from the South. He purchased about 4,000 acres. It will be some considerable time before he can send potatoes or other produce here. Another gentleman has got a large tract of land, consisting of about 4,000 acres, and he supplies the market to a great extent; in fact, every settler who has land available tends to find produce for this district, but nothing adequate to our requirements. All this land is in the immediate vicinity of the river, and is not very far up. Mr. Elliott's land is within 6or 7 miles of this place. 2991. What would be the cost of carriage by water between that place and Grahamstown ?—The cost would be very little. The navigation from there to the Thames is not very difficult. Mr. G-. T. Wilkinson, Government Land Purchase Commissioner, sworn and examined. 2992. The Chairman.] Are you well acquainted with the position and quality of the land in the Thames Valley ?—Yes ;I am well acquainted with its position, and partly acquainted with its quality. 2993. Can you state, as between Grahamstown and Omahu, what proportion of the land which would be'affected by the railway is in the hands of the Government ?—Between Grahamstown and Omahu there are 104,389 acres the purchase of which has been completed ; and there are 100,000 acres under negotiation, the purchase ..of which is not completed : making a total of 204,389 acres. That is on the right bank of the river. . 2994 Are the 104,389 acres absolutely purchased and in the hands of the Government tor sale t — Yes. Some of it has been in the hands of the Waste Lands Board for a considerable time, and therefore may have been disposed of to Europeans. I may say that, continuing on the right-hand side, and in every instance fronting the Waihou Kiver, there is a large block of land called Patetere. That was under negotiation by the Government; but I believe it is intended by the Government to abandon the purchase. It is estimated to contain 249,000 acres. _ 2995. Can you say what area of land on the right bank of the river is in the hands of private individuals —Europeans? —I cannot say. . 2996. Is there any considerable acreage in the hands of Europeans P— Yes; there is a considerable acreage in the hands of Europeans. I think all the land about Ohinemuri is m the hands of private individuals, and also towards Hikutaia. Then, between Hikutaia and the Thames there is a considerable portion in the hands of Europeans. t - 2997. Mr. Wright.] Is the land on the left bank of the Thames principally m the hands of the Natives ?—Yes—under negotiation for purchase by the Government. There is the Piako purchase, which is estimated to contain 200,000 acres. Then there is the Te Aroha Block, a portion of which is on one side of the river and a portion on the other. The total area of it is 53,908 acres. 2998. What is the quality of the soil ?—The country on the right bank of the river is all available for cultivation, but the swampy places would have to be drained. With the exception of those swampy places, all the land on the bank of the river, before you get on to the hills, is available for cultivation. The average width is U or 2 miles : perhaps it is 3 miles in some places, but the average is about 2 miles. , . ~ '.. 2999. What proportion would the level land bear to the total quantity you have got t— A very small proportion. , 3000. What is the character of the land on the left bank which is under negotiation ?—4 or some distance up the coast-line, to the Piako Block, it is very swampy. In a direct line for 10 or 12 miles hardly any of the land would be available for cultivation until it is drained, with the exception ot the land at the base of the hills. The upper portion is very good land, and easily drainable. Below that the fall is very slight indeed, and it would be impossible to drain some portions of it. I may state, with reference to a portion of the land on the right side of the river, that, although hilly, it contains some splendid valleys, which would only require roads to open them up. These valleys are numerous, although not of large extent. Some of them contain only 500 acres. At Ohinemuri there is good land for cultivation, and it has been taken up already under agricultural leases. 3001. Mr. Miller.] In the areas you have given, have you included lands purchased by private individuals? —Yes. . , • 3002. Are the blocks you have spoken of as Government blocks in one district or spread all over the line of railway?—All over the whole line of railway. 3003. How long have you been in the district ?—1 have been here more than twelve years. Henet Alley sworn and examined. 3001. The Chairman.] Do you reside in the Thames Valley ?—Yes ; I reside at Hikutaia. I have lived there seven years. 3005. Do you occupy and cultivate land yourself ?—Yes ; I hold about 4,000 acres. 3000. How much of that is fit to plough ?—I have laid down about 1,500 acres m grass.
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3007. Have you any land under grain-crop ? —Tes ; I have had some under grain-crop within the last few years : generally I have cut it for feed for cattle and horses. 3008. Have you sown any land in wheat?—Tes. 3009. What has been the result ? —I have had from twenty-fivo to forty bushels per acre. The oats I have cut for green feed and hay. 3010. What is your opinion of the land you occupy ?■ —The soil is flrst-iate, both for grain-growing and green crops. 3011. Is the whole of your 4,000 acres level?—No; about 3,000 acres is level, and about 1,000 acres is of low hills. 3012. Is the land in the district surrounding you of the same character ? —Tes, about the same. The land is a swamp which has been drained for many years, and consists of vegetable deposit. Some of it that I have laid down has given a succession of very good crops for four years, and it is growing mangolds and potatoes for a second crop. I have had a good deal of draining to do. I have laid down the land in grass, and Ido not intend to go into tillage until the whole of it is laid down. If we had roads or railways I would go in for tillage; but the country is only getting settled now. 3013. Were you put to much expense for drainage ? —Tes, the expense has been very heavy. 3014. Can you give the Commission any idea of the acreage in your immediate neighbourhood of land of the same character as that which you occupy? —There is a quantity of land of the same character, about 28 miles long by an average of 3 miles in width. That is on the right bank of the river. I have seen excellent crops grown by the Maoris at Ohinemuri and Piaroa. 3015. Is the land on the other side of the river of the same quality as that on the right bank ?— The larger portion for 10 or 12 miles is cropped. Opposite my place the settlers have grown very heavy crops of potatoes. One man has got ten or twelve tons to the acre, but this land is now limited, and requires draining. 3016. Do you think draining would be an expensive process on this side of the river ? —There is no doubt it would be. I do not know whether the land could be drained without resort to artificial means. lam afraid some portions of it are lower than the river-bed. 3017. Mr. Wright.'] Is the land you speak of subject to the flooding of the river ?—Tes, and it is a continual swamp summer and winter. I have tried to go in some distance, but Ido not think I have advanced more than a mile. 3018. Does the Thames overflow that portion of the country ?—Not so much as the Piako. 8019. Was the land you occupy purchased from the Crown or from the Natives ? —I think it was purchased by the former possessor from the Natives. It is Crown-granted. 3020. What has been your total expenditure in drainage ? —I cannot remember. I have been draining for seven years. 3021. What quantity of stock does your land carry?—This year I have 250 head of cattle and 1,400 or 1,500 sheep on the whole block. 3022. Mr. Clark.~] Do you know anything of the land on the left bank of the Thames opposite Pairoa ? —Tes. 3023. Is the land there as swampy as it is farther down the river ?—Certainly not. As you go inland the land rises and the swamp decreases. 3024. Do you consider that land suitable for agricultural purposes ? —Most undoubtedly. It is fine level land. 3025. Is it not subject to be overflowed by the river ? —I do not think so. I have been up and down the Thames for seven years, and I have never seen it overflowed. 3026. Colonel JPearce.] Is any portion of the east bank liable to be overflowed ? —I have been told by the Natives that it is, but I have not seen the other side of it. I have seen one portion of the other side at Pairoa, where the river backs up, at which some portion of it goes over, but not much. Mr. Miller, on behalf of the deputation, asked the following questions : — 3028. Were you resident for a considerable time in Hawke's Bay, farming ? —Tes. 3029. Does the land above Omahu compare favourably with land in Hawke's Bay ? —Tes, most undoubtedly. There is a small area of agricultural land outside the inner ridge which is some of the best I have seen in any part of the world for grazing sheep and cattle on ; but for growing crops it is not equal to the land where I am. I have had better crops and as good potatoes. 3030. Coming back to the question of coal, supposing coal could be brought to you cheaply by rail, would you and other farmers use it in preference to timber ? —lf I could get coal as cheaply as Mr. Campbell says it could be got, I would sooner use it than draw timber in from the bush and cut it; and I would keep the timber for fencing purposes. I may state I have travelled across from here to Napier and Wellington, and I say that we have the finest country of any in the North Island, behind us. There is a very large area of level land and a large area of timber-land, and there is no doubt that the Waikato people would send all their produce here ; and if the lands were open and roads of any description made, we could grow produce largely from just opposite Grahamstown right up to the Waikato. I think the Government should at least give us a macadamized road, if they cannot give us a railway. We have not got a piece of road beyond Hikutaia, and an old Maori is allowed to obstruct all traffic between here and Ohinemuri. We have not a bit of road to run a horse and cart on. Nearly all the land between here and Taupo is level, and I think we are better entitled to a railway than any other portion of the North Island. Mr. Peedebick STBiireffi sworn and examined. 3031. The Chairman.'] Are you a settler in this district ? —Tes, I am a settler in the Waitoa Valley. I have resided in the centre of the district between three and four years. 3032. Are you well acquainted with the land in that part of the valley ? —I have been over most of the land : it is very nearly all level land on both sides of the river. 3033. What is your opinion as to the character of the land generally ?—The general character of the land all up is as good as that in any other area of New Zealand. It is more regular than the Canterbury land. The swamps, mostly, are easily drained, except small portions down at this end,
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which are above the sea. There would be no great difficulty in draining it. I have been told that people have sailed over this swamp ; but it is 20 feet above the river, so that it must have been a veryextraordinary flood. I may say that where it is proposed that the railway shall cross from Paiaroa there is a fair crossing and a good terrace to get on. Half a mile from the river the country rises, and there is a good watershed both down the Waitoa and the Piako. The flood covers half a mile, and at some places is wider at the bends of the creeks, and on the Waitoa especially, on account of the mouth being insufficient for the area of swampy country to be drained. I have drained one of the worst swamps on the Waitoa, where there was previously 15 feet of water. It is quite dry now. There is a large extent of country in this valley which would be affected by this railway. I apprehend that there woiild be as great a trade in this valley as there is on any railway in New Zealand—not only to supply this valley, which would, of course, be of some consequence, but also for the purpose of export, because I believe that the district would grow enough if under cultivation to supply New Zealand. It is quite a young district, and within the last three years there has been a good stride made ; previous to that time there was nothing done. 3034. Are you of opinion that the construction of a railway would lead to a large increase of population and to a large increase in the production of the district ? —Yes. I have seen no other district so capable of being developed. 3035. Mr, Wright.] "What area do you hold ? —Two thousand acres. 303G. And what stock does that carry? —I have only been on the land twelve months. I have put 500 acres in grass, and there are something like between 150 and 200 head of cattle, horses, and sheep. Twelve months ago there was no grass at all on the land. For the first year the grass generally shows badly. "We find furrows through our land, and I believe that at one time the Natives used to grow wheat there. I have not yet had an opportunity of testing it myself. I have put in a few patches for trial, and the grain did very well. Of course this is fern-land, and fern-land will not grow wheat until it has been under grass ; but after it has been under grass it will grow almost anything. I came here from Canterbury, and I know that Canterbury has this advantage, that you can grow grain-crops at once, because it has had sheep running over it for many years; but here we have that to do. The land is quite as rich, and I believe will stand longer cropping than Canterbury land. Mr. John Elliott sworn and examined. 3037. The Chairman.] Do you occupy land in the Thames Valley ?—Yes ; fully 3,000 acres. 3038. What proportion of that do you cultivate ?—I have cultivated none of it as yet. 3039. Are you well acquainted with the character of the land in the Thames Valley? —Yes. 3040. What is its general character, looked at as a field for settlement ? —I think it is one of the best districts in New Zealand. I have seen most of New Zealand. I was a resident in Southland for eleven years, and I have seen all classes of country, both in Canterbury and Otago. I think this land is equal to any land down there, with the exception of some very choice spots. There is a very large area of land available for settlement up this valley, if it were opened up by railway, and if there was a thorough system of drainage effected. Ido not know any better country in the whole of this Island. 3041. Mr. Clark.] What part of Southland did you live in? —In the Mataura District. 3042. Colonel Pearce.~\ Are you a practical farmer ? —Yes : I have farmed in New Zealand. 3043. Mr. Wright.'] Have you purchased from the Crown ? —-No ; I purchased from a party in Auckland, who had bought from the Natives nine years ago. My land is about 10 miles from here, on the banks of the river. 3044. Then you will have water-carriage for your produce ?—Yes. Mr. Alexander Aitken, County Surveyor, sworn and examined. 3045. The Chairman.'] In your capacity as surveyor, are you well acquainted with the land in the Thames Valley ?—Yes —that is, all the land between Grahamstown and Te Aroha, and a little beyond. 3046. Will you be good enough to state what is your opinion of the country as regards a field for settlement? —I do not know of any district in New Zealand more admirably suited for settlement than the Thames Valley; and I have seen the whole of New Zealand, both North and South. 3047. Is a great proportion of the land level and fit for cultivation ?—Yes, a very large proportion—more especially from Te Aroha eastward. 3048. Do you think it would afford profitable employment for an agricultural population ?—Yes.
Auckland, Monday, 31st Mat, 1880, Mr. James Burtt, settler, sworn and examined. 3049. The Chairman.'} I understand you wish to give some evidence with respect to the Thames"VVaikato Eailway ? —Yes. Assuming that the object of the Government is to tap the river traffic at its nearest point, I wish to state that there is a Government reserve for a landing-place on the banks of the "Waihou, opposite Te Aroha. If the railway were taken to that place it would tap the river at the nearest point. There is a distance of 4| miles between there and the place at present proposed as a terminus. Another point is, that all round the base of the mountain there is an enormous quantity of gravel, and as the land is in the hands of the Government, it would be available for ballasting the whole line almost by gravitation. Ballast is not obtainable from any other source in the neighbourhood. I refer to the reserve at Omahu. 3050. Colonel Pearce.] Is the river equally as navigable up to this point as it is to the terminus proposed by the Government ? —So far as lam aware, I think it is. There are shoaly places there ; but there are also shoals below the present proposed railway terminus. 3051. Is the river equally as navigable to the point you propose as it is to the point proposed by the Government? —I think not. The farther you go up the river the more shoals youmeet with. My reason for bringing this under the notice of the Government is this: I know there is always a strong indisposition to alter any line once proposed; but the fact of there being an unlimited supply
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o£ gravel at the place I mention seems to me very important. Ido not profess to be disinterested in the matter, as I own land in the neighbourhood. However, from the information I have been able to get, there is no supply of gravel, such as I have mentioned, at any other place. 3052. But, assuming the line went the whole way down to Grahamstown, would it be as convenient to come to the point you propose as to the point proposed by the Government?—No : but I am given to understand that it is not likely the line will be carried to Grahamstown. Therefore the object of the Government would be to tap the river traffic at the nearest point, and at the same time avail themselves of this gravel. This land all about Te Aroha it is proposed to divide amongst Natives who were the original owners of the Te Aroha Block; and the Government should reserve a site to enable them to utilize the gravel-pits there. Ido not know that there is any such supply along the present line. 3053. Mr. Wriglit.~\ You are aware that the Grahamstown people are anxious to get communication by the Thames Valley with Waikato ? —Yes. 3054. "Would the alteration which you propose increase the length of the connecting line to Grahamstown ?—No, it would not increase the length. Igo upon the assumption that the line would not be likely to go to Grahamstown. 3055. But, leaving that assumption out of the question, you advocate the construction of the line to the point opposite Te Aroha as against the terminus proposed by the Government ? —Yes. 3056. Is it not the fact, if your argument is correct, that two sides of a triangle are less than a third P —lt is one side of the triangle. The river is already available. 3057. That is ignoring altogether the position of a lino of railway down to the Thames. What you recommend would be only a reduction of mileage if the line between Te Aroha and the Thames were abandoned altogether?—Yes. 3058. What quantity of land do you own at Te Aroha? —Pour hundred acres. 3059. Does that include the gravel you speak of?—No ; there is gravel upon it, but the Government own a large quantity of land there close to which there is a quantity of quartz-gravel. 3060. How far distant is that from the river ? —About three-quarters of a mile. 3061. But would not that entail a bridge over the river and an additional mile of railway to get at it ? —Yes, it would require a tramway; but then it would benefit the whole line to Hamilton. Mr. A. V. Macdonald, General Manager of Railways, Auckland, sworn and examined. 3062. Mr. Wright.'] How long have you held your present position ?—Since 1875. 3063. Had you any previous experience in railway management ? —I was brought up to railway work on the Manchester, Sheffield, and Lancashire line. I was purposely trained for it. 3061. How long were you on the Manchester, Sheffield, and Lancashire lino ? —I served my time on it for eight or nine years. 3065. In what capacity ? —As an engineer, both civil and mechanical. I served my time fully at both. 3066. Were you in any way connected with the traffic department ? —No. I had no knowledge of that except what I could pick up by assisting whenever I had the opportunity. 3067. You have no special training in that department ? —No. 3068. Will you state the number of the staff employed here, and the salaries ? —Our total staff is 280 ; that includes every grade. 3069. I meant rather the heads, commencing with yourself?—Myself £475, an accountant £250, a clerk £180, two goods clerks £120 each, a booking clerk £120. We have no Auckland station-master. I have applied for one. 3070. Who is goods manager ?—There is no goods manager. The senior clerk does the work outward ; the other inward. 3071. How long have you been without a station-master?—We have never had one in Auckland, We had a Traffic Manager. 3072. Is there a Traffic Manager at present ?—No ; he has resigned. 3073. What was his salary? —£250, and £100 for travelling allowance. 3074. How long have you been without him ?—Since the middle of March. 3075. Can you give the proportion which the passenger traffic bears to the goods traffic on the Auckland section as regards cash receipts ? —One-third passenger, two-thirds goods. 3076. Are there any exceptional fares on the Auckland railways ?—Yes, between Auckland and Onehunga. 3077. What is the reduction off the general rate ? —lnstead of 2s. and Is. 4d., it is reduced to Is. and 9d. 3078. Would you be liable to loose any portion of the traffic if the fares were increased? —Yes. It was tried, and that was proved to be the case. The short distance by road leaves room for competition by 'buses. 3079. Throughout the rest of the Auckland Section I presume the regular tariff is charged ? —Yes. 3080. How many trains will run daily as far as Hamilton ?—-Two each way. 3081. In your opinion, is there sufficient passenger traffic to justify the running of two trains over that portion of the line ? —Not beyond Ngaruawahia. The new time-table provides for that. It has not yet come into force. I have arranged that only one train shall run the whole distance, and that two trains shall run as far as Ngaruawahia. A reduction in the present train-mileage is in contemplation. That will come into force on the opening of the extension to Te Awamutu; that is to say, almost immediately. 3082. Is it possible to make any reduction in the train-mileage without loosing a number of passenger^ who would be likely to travel ?—Not at present, with the exception of one train on Sunday between Auckland and Onehunga. 3083. How many trains run there at present on Sundaj's ? —Three each way. 3084. Have you recommended a reduction of that nature?—Yes; the alteration is made in the new time-table. There is also a slight alteration in the running of the train up to Waikomiti. 22—E. 3.
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3085. What does coal cost you at Taupiri ? —Seven shillings and fivepence a ton at the sta tion and put into the trucks. 3086. Are you aware that the line between Riverhead and Helensville is very unprofitable at present ? —Tes. 3057. Do you think that when the line is completed between Riverhead and Auckland the traffic will.be more profitable than it is at present? —It is hard to say. 3038. Are you doubtful whether the line will be able to compete with the water-carriage ? —lam. 3089. What is the difference, in point of distance, between Auckland and Riverhead by railway and by water ? —I do not know what the distance is by water, but 1 think it is shorter by rail. One reason why I say I am doubtful whether the railway can compete with the water is that there is a great deal of competition by vessels taking produce to the Kaipara. They bring up groceries and other supplies from the South. As a means of communication between north and south the extension of the line to Auckland is all well and good, but I am very doubtful as to the pecuniary results. 3090. In what direction is this competition of which you speak ? —The vessels coming into Kaipara Harbour, and ge»ing up into the Wairoa for timber, bring freights with them from the South of the colony—from Lyttelton, Dunedin, and Port Chalmers. Freight has been as low as 10s. to 15s. a ton. , 3091. Do they practically interfere at present with the trade between Auckland and Kaipara? — Yes, to a very great extent; and I think it is likely that the competition will continue. 3092. Colonel Pearce.~\ Are you in a position to offer any suggestions to the Commission whereby the proportion of receipts to expenditure would be increased on the Waikato line?—l think that the general system of a slight increase in the tariff which has been mentioned from time to time, might bo made advantageously. There should be no increase in any one particular class of goods, but it should be a general tax over the whole, such as increasing the terminal charge. If you increase the tariff on one particular class of goods, such as timber, those interested would immediately set their wits to work to evade it; but if you made a general slight increase on the whole tariff, the public would not feel it so much, and the result to the railway would be advantageous. As to our working, Ido not think we could reduce any more than we have done. We have reduced in train-mileage and in every other respect. 3093. In the case of coal, will the mines in the Waikato be able to compete with coal brought by water ? —Tes, at the present rate. 3094. And if you increase the charge for haulage on the coal, would they be able to compete with the Whangarei and Bay of Islands mines ? —No, they would not, unless the increase was very slight. Ido not think they could compete if a considerable increase were made. I think there is very close competition just at present in that particular class. 3095. Are you at present charging the ordinary tariff rate for coal ?—No; I forgot to mention that. There is a special rate of 6s. 6d. per ton as a maximum chai'ge on the coal from the Waikato. That is from both the mines. 3096. What is the distance ?■ —Sixty-five miles. Into the new place it is 69 miles. The ordinary tariff rate would be Bs. 7d. 3097. Was that done to enable the mine there to compete with water-borne coal ?—Tes. Representations were made by them that they were unable to make any profit with this coal at the ordinary rate. 3098. Do you look upon 6s. 6d. as a paying rate?—Only in very large quantities. I consider that it is very close on cost. It requires a very large amount to make that rate pay. It pajs if we simply have to make up the weight of a train, but if we had to lay on a special train for it, without a very large quantity I do not think it would pay very much more than the cost. 3099. Mr. Wright!] Is this special rate a differential rate in favour of the Waikato Railway as compared with other railways in the colony ? —Tes. 3100. Colonel Pearce.~\ Was there any reason for fixing this differential rate ? —lt was fixed for the purpose of giving the Waikato coal a chauce of getting into the,market. The idea was to give it to the public at a lowrer price, so that they might be induced to use it. 3101. Mr. Wright.'] Do you think that, if the Government now charged the ordinary rate for this coal, it would be shut out from the Auckland market?—Not altogether shut out, because there was a trade open with the coal before. 3102. Is it not a fact that the supply of seaborjie coal from Kawakawa is not equal to the demand ? —I am not prepared to say. I think that when the Waikato coal is once established in the market it would stand the full. rate. It was perhaps well to make a special rate, so as to induce a trade in the coal at first; but afterwards I think we might revert to the old tariff without any harm, perhaps allowing them a lower rate on very large quantities in the shape of discount. 3L03. Do you think that a substantial increase might be made in the charge for carrying coal from the Waikato without materially reducing the quantity sent? —Tes; as soon as the coal is firmly established in the market. 1* would not fix the ordinary rate this winter. 3101. Do you think the present rate charged for the carriage of timber is capable of any reduction ?—No. 3105. What is the rate now current? —Three-halfpence for the first 30 miles, and |d. afterwards up to 75 miles. Ido not think it could be increased within a certain limit, say from here to Waikato. It might perhaps be increased at intermediate stations; but in the Waikato there might perhaps be competition by the river. That is why I say we cannot increase the charge of any one particular class of goods. There would have to be a general increase over the whole. 3106. Tou say that no reduction could be made in this rate: are we to infer that the rate you mention is as low as it is possible to carry timber at a profit ? —I think so. 3107. Then, on those sections, where it is carried at |d. per 100 feet per mile, do you think it profitable, or the reverse? —It would depend on the nature of the line. It might pay if there was a very heavy traffic over a short distance; but we have a very long haulage over a very unproductive country.
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3108. Do you think that -J-d. per 100 feet per mile will do, under any circumstances ?—I do not think so. It must be very quick loading and'unloading to accomplish that. 3109. Leaving loading and unloading out of the question, do you think it would pay haulage expenses, leaving wear and tear of plant and road also out of the question? —I do not think so. 3110. Colonel Pearce."} What quantity of coal is brought down from the two mines per month?—lt runs from 500 to 800 tons per week; or about 2,000 to 8,000 tons per month. 3111. Does that include what is sold to the railways? —Yes ; that is the output from the mines. 3112. Can you state what proportion is consumed by the public, and what proportion by the Government? —About 250 to 300 tons per month is consumed by the railway. 3113. Do the mines supply to the public at the same price as they supply to the Government ? — No. They supply the public with coal delivered in Auckland at from 225. to 255. per ton —that is, delivered at the residences of the consumers, The price varies according to whether the consumer takes one ton or a truck-load. At the mine they sell a truck-load at 12s. per ton, to which has to be added 6s. 6d. for haulage, and 3s. to 4s. per ton cartage. 3114. Mr. WrightT] What consideration do the Government give the coal-proprietors to induce them to supply coal at 4s. 7d. per ton below the charge to the general public ? —that is to say, they supply the Government at 7s. sd. and the public at 12s, on the same spot? —Perhaps it is the competition of one mine against the other. We have had the coal as low as ss. 9d. At first we paid 6s. ; next year, ss. 9d.; and at present it is 7s. sd. The price was fixed by public tender. 3115. Then, if the coal-proprietors are called upon to pay the regulation tariff rate, do you not think that the competition would also oblige them to supply the public as against the seaborne coal ? —I think so —after the coal has been established a little in Auckland. The public are rather slow in taking up the coal, as there was a prejudice against;it at first. 3116. Is the traffic department credited with the haulage of the coal used in the locomotives ?— No ; there is no account taken of it. 3117. Mr. Clark.'] In speaking of 12s. as the rate charged to the public for the coal, is not that more a retail rate than a rate at which the coal would be supplied to the trade or to consumers of large quantities ? —I imagine it is the retail price to the public. I have no idea what price is charged to consumers of steam-coal, which is cheaper than the household coal. I have been speaking of household coal all the time. 3118. In estimating the amount of reduction made to the Government below the current price, that reduction being put down at 4s. 7d., is that not rather a reduction below the retail price ? Might not the comjianies supply the coal to large consumers at about the same price they supply the coal to the Government? —1 have au idea that they supply steam-coal at from 12s. to 15s. per ton. 3119. Does the first train between Auckland and Onehunga running on Sunday start from Auckland ? —Yes, before Church time. It also goes out at half-past two, and reaches Auckland again at four o'clock. There is an intermediate train between half-past two and six, which I propose to leave out. 3120. Does the train return to Auckland before Church time, so as to encourage people to travel by it to town when they want to go to Church ? —Yes ; the people get in at ten minutes to eleven. 3121. Does not that time preclude people from going to Church? —I have not heard so, except when the train has been delayed by the steamer. I have not hoard any complaint of the fact you mention. 3122. Mr. Wright."] When was the reduction in the tariff rate made from Bs. 7d. to 6s. 6d. ?— Last December, I think. 3123. On whose suggestion was it made? —It was done through some representation made to the Commissioner when he was in Auckland two years ago. Every time he returned to Auckland the question was brought up again. After his visit the question was brought up last session, and we got instructions in December. It was done on the request of the coal-proprietors. 3124. Colonel Pearce.] If the charge for coal were brought up to the ordinary tariff rate, would not the increase in the receipts be £3,500 a year ?—Yes. When you get down to Id. per ton you run very close to the actual cost of running the trains. The road-metal rate is a very great advantage upcountry. Instead of the receipts dropping down when wet weather sets in, the road-metal rate keeps up the receipts. One penny per ton per mile is the ordinary cost of running when you take the whole distance, comparing the actual distance per train-mile. 3125. Mr. Clark.'] How many trucks of full weight can you take from Newmarket, if they were taken altogether as mineral trains? —We can take from eight to ten trucks as far as Remuera. Beyond that we can take twelve trucks to Mercer, and then from twenty to thirty. You can take a large load of coal into Mercer, but it requires two engines to finish the journey, if you go through. 3126. Mr. Wright,] When you say Id. per ton per mile is very nearly the cost of running, am I to understand that you are speaking of the actual expenses, not making any allowance for wear and tear or depreciation'?—l mean all our renewals and repairs, our total expenditure for renewals and repairs for the stock we have. With the total expenses worked out to per train per mile, it comes very nearly to Id. per ton per mile. I have worked it out, taking the cost of the scoria trains, and they come very near to that. 3127. Mr. Clark.] If you take ten trucks on the average, carrying five tons per truck, and earning Id. per ton per mile, the result would be 4s. 2d. per mile, while the cost of running the train to the department is 3s. 9d. to 4s. per mile ? —Yes ; the cost of running the train per mile is from 3s. 9d. to 4s. 3128. Would not a considerable portion of the expenses per train-mile have to be incurred whether road-metal trucks were run or not ? —Not altogether. We must take the running of that train itself. Supposing we were running only road-metal trains, we would find that we were doing the work very nearly at cost price. 3129. That is, charging to these trains the whole cost of station management and working expenses? —Yeg.
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3130. Therefore, if a traffic in road-metal is formed by carrying at that price, even although there is very little apparent profit, there is in reality some profit ? —Yes, it pays. I would not alter the road-metal rate, because it is doing good. If you make a heavy charge for the haulage the settlers could not take the metal. 3131. Mr. Wright."] When you spoke of Id. per ton per mile covering the cost of renewal, were you referring to rolling-stock or permanent way ? —To both. 3132. Then does the small margin which you speak of—namely, the difference between the actual cost of working and the receipts of Id. per ton per mile —as j ustifying this rate, amount to any appreciable rate of interest on the capital cost of the line ? —ln very large quantities it would, but it would not if we had to make any special arrangement. 3133. Ton stated that Id. per mile is very nearly the cost of running the train? —Tes. I reckoned it in one instance for 25 miles. 3134. That is to say Id. per mile would leave a profit on the running of the trains ? —Yes. 3135. And against that Id. per mile has to be set the depreciation of the road and rolling-stock and interest? —Interest, but not depreciation, as it is in a measure already in the expenditure. 3136. To what extent ? What margin have you allowed for depreciation in your calculation ? — The depreciation is allowed for, because railway material is included in the 4s. 1 have mentioned as being the cost of running the trains. In that estimate of 4s. per train-mile I have put renewals and repairs. 3137. Is that based on present operations ?—Yes. 3138. Is it not likely that these renewals and repairs will increase as the roads get older?—Yes. 3139. Then the Id. per mile would probably be swallowed up ? —Yes. I have already stated that that is running it very close. 3140. Mr. Clark.] Do you think an increase upon the rate would destroy the traffic ? —I think it would have a tendency to do so. 3141. Do you think the rate for carrying metal would bear no increase ? —I think a small increase might be put on, and also on general merchandise; but, as I have already stated, I do not think it would do to tax any particular class of goods. 3142. Mr. Wright.] If you increased the charge for the carriage of road metal, would it be carried by any other means than the railway ? —No ; the people would either have to pay the increased rate, or do without the metal. 3143. Is the differential rate per ton for coal charged throughout the entire length of the line, or is it merely charged between the mines and Auckland? —It is charged for the entire length of the line. Six shillings and sixpence is the maximum charge. 3144. Suppose the coal is carried only half the distance, what is charged? —It is then charged at the old rate until it reaches 6s. 6d. 3145. Colonel Pearce.] Do you know if the coastal steamers take the Waikato coal at Onehunga ? —Yes. 3146. Is the charge there 6s. 6d. also ?—Yes. 3147. Mr. Clark.] Have you a sufficient number of trucks at present to afford convenience for supplying coal ? —No. I have made application for more trucks. I imderstand it is contemplated to provide them. 3148. Could not the necessity for the increased number of trucks be avoided by erecting coalshoots at the Onehunga wharf?—We have one. 3149. I mean for holding a large quantity ? —lt would involve a largo expenditure of money. The difficulty is being met by making two or three coal boxes in each wagon which will be tipped. Large shoots mean very heavy outlay. These steamers take a great deal of coal in their bunkers, so that a shoot would bo of no use. 3150. How many additional trucks would you require ?—I have asked for thirty fitted with boxes for the coal trade, and seventy side-wagons. That I consider would meet our requirements. The traffic is increasing and spreading, and there is great demand for wagons, so that it is well w rorthy of consideration to increase our wagon stock. Mr. James Stewart, C.E., District Engineer, sworn and examined. 3151. Mr. Wright.] Will you state to the Commission the present position of the harbour reclamation contract ? —Since January last the works on Mr. Dempsey's contract have been suspended, and nothing has been done in the way of work since. Twelve tenders have been received, and orders were received this morning to return the deposits with all the tenders, excepting the two lowest. The tenders were opened for that purpose this morning. 3152. What is the amount of those tenders?—-That of Mr. W. Campbell is the lowest, at £45,352. 3153. What was the amount of the tender for the original contract—Dempsey's ?—£32,000. 3154. Has there been any material alteration in the designs to account for the increase? —No. The proposed wall has been re-designed, and I think it has slightly increased the cost, but I am not sure how much. 3155. In your judgment the same amount of land could be reclaimed, and the same amount of wharfage facilities given, by a cheaper design ?—Yes; by doing away with the proposed wall of concrete and masonry. 3156. By what amount approximately would the cost of the work be reduced if that alteration were made ?—Giving an open-timber breastwork for vessels to lie against, I believe £10,000 could be easily saved. 3157. If the plan you suggest were carried out, it would not admit of the harbour being dredged outside the wharf without continuing the slope to the depth dredged ?—The timber breastwork should then be carried out. 3158. What would be the amount of saving in the matter of reclamation by sotting back the line of the work from Quay Street a distance of 100 feet, as proposed to the Harbour Board by the Minister for Public Works?—About £4,000.-
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3159. "With your knowledge of the traffic of the port, which plan would you recommend as the most beneficial ?• —I do not think the traffic of the port would be influenced at all by any reclamation. Every quay and every wharf ought to bo connected with the railway; but I could never see that reclamation was necessary to connect the quay or wharf with the railway. 3160. How would you propose to connect with the railway ? —I would carry the line along Customhouse Street, and reclaim sufficient to carry the curve on to Queen Street Wharf. 1 would suggest that the station should stop at Gore Street. 3161. As the breastwork would be continuous from the railway wharf to Queen Street in any case, do you not think there would be greater facilities both for the railway station and warehouse accommodation by reclaiming to the brown line on the plan P — Yes, that would give more land, and land is always acceptable, if not bought at too great rate. The cost of the facing would be practically the same, and if the facing were abandoned the cost of reclamation would not be so very much. 3162. "What would be the extra cost of the piece of reclamation to fill in from the green line to the brown line ?—About £3,000. 3163. Do you think that extent of reclamation would satisfy all parties concerned, and give facilities for a new station?—lt would do for a new station, and it would give additional land; but, as to satisfying all parties, I can scarcely answer for that. 3164. "Would it bring the terminus nearer Queen Street? —It would bring the station about 10 chains nearer Queen Street. 3165. Mr. Clark.~] In drawing the plans for the reclamation and station have you considered the desirability of providing space for a Customhouse sheds in connection with the railway ?—No ; we have looked to nothing beyond our own requirements. 3166. You consider that it would be desirable to connect both wharves with the railway ? —Yes, I believe that every wharf and quay in the place ought to be connected with the railway, and that ought to have been done years ago. 3167. Then have you ever considered, or has it ever been brought under your notice, the great facilities for discharging vessels which a large Customhouse shed in connection with the station would give ? —No, Ido not think it has been considered. I do not remember that question having been raised at all. # 3168. If such a shed is required to store heavy goods, do you think it would be practicable to erect a shed on the present wharf ? —Yes. 3169. Without risking the settling of the whole structure?—Special foundations could be put in. Special piles could be put in to carry any weight desired. 3170. But if a shed of that kind is required, could it not be erected with advantage on the reclaimed ground alongside the station ? —A shed could be put up anywhere in the station if it were not required for ships to discharge into. A shed would give great facilities, but Ido not think it should be connected with the railway. 3171. Do you consider that the reclamation to the reduced limit would give sufficient room for the shed to receive all goods from vessels discharging, and give a yard for carts to load from that shed ■on the other side of the railway ?—I think if that scheme were carried out the reclamation ought to go out to the original line of the breastwork. 3172. What is the difference between Dempsey's tender and the next lowest of the original tenders? —Speaking from memory, I think the difference is between £4,000 and £5,000. 3173. Do you consider that the alteration in the plan has had much to do with the increased amount of the present tenders ?—lt has ; but how much I am not prepared to say. 3174. How much do you consider the tender increased by the substitution of a covering of broken stone instead of scoria? —The cost of broken metal is put down in this tender at £5,755 ; two-thirds of that might be saved. 3175. Did Dempsey provide securities ? —He deposited £1,000 cash. That was taken in lieu of sureties for £2,000. "We generally take half cash, if cash is offered. 3176. Substituting timber facing for the concrete wall and a scoria covering for the broken metal, would not the cost of this work be reduced from £45,000 to a little over £30,000 ?—Yes. 3177. Mr. Wright.'] With reference to the Auckland and Eiverhead Railway, will you state the cost of the whole line from Auckland to lliverhead ?—To Waikomiti it has cost, in round numbers, £20,000. 3178. How much will the remainder cost?—The contract amount is £36,000. It will cost something over £40,000 —that is, without stations. There is only one station included in this. 3179. Does the £40,000 include rails and sleepers? —No; neither rolling-stock, rails, nor sleepers. 3180. I want to know the total cost of the completed Hue ? —£96,000 will be the total cost without rolling-stock. 3181. When was this work first authorized, commencing with the Waikomiti Section ? —I first got orders in April, 1876, to advertise for tenders almost at once. I had never seen the plans before that. 3182. Can you say who recommended the construction of this line? —It was got up very much the same as any other line. Pressure was brought to bear upon the Government to include it in their schedules, and the line was surveyed before I had charge of anything more than my own line to Mercer. I had nothing to do with the surveys, and I had nothing to do with recommending it. I was only ordered, in March or April, 1876, to get the plans ready for tender immediately. I then proceeded to walk over the line for the first time, having got the plans and appointed a Resident Engineer for it. I found that a great part of the line, between here and Mount Albert especially, was laid out in a way that I could not recommend. It was laid out on the road with cuttings on the road, and the claims for compensation would be immense on account of the great amount of damage that would be done. I got leave to alter the line, and that occupied some little time. 3183. Do you think the line is likely to be a profitable one ? —I do not. 3184. Is it a line you would have proposed to the Government to make?—l would never have advised the Government to make that line. lam speaking of the line to lliverhead.
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3185. Colonel Pearce.] What is the cost of the extension of the line from the old Helensville Station to Helensville Wharf ?—About £14,000, exclusive of rails ; but that includes sleepers. That is the cost of the wharf and buildings. 3186. Would not a good-sized winch have answered all purposes very well on the old wharf? — No ; lam perfectly satisfied that that extension is a proper one. The trade could not have been carried on with the old wharf. 3187. Was it not carried on for years ? —ln a sort of way. The old wharf, in my opinion, was an absurdity. 3188. Will this extension increase the traffic at all ? —lt will take all the traffic it is possible to offer, without throwing difficulties in the way of discharging, as the old wharf did. 3189. Mr. Clark.} Do you anticipate that the traffic will increase as the Kaipara Harbour is opened up ?—I do. I believe that a large traffic will come across the isthmus; but very little timber will come round the new line. It will all come down to Auckland from ltiverhead by water. The river will always be a very heavy opposition to the line from Biverhead to Auckland. 3190. Mr. Wright.] Would not the removal of the two miles of railway from Biverhead to the junction force all the traffic over the Waikomiti Section ? —lf that were closed of course the timber, passengers, and everything else would have to go over the Waikomiti Section. I believe you would then play into the hands of the mills on this side : the heavy timber would have to be carted from the station to the mills. 3191. Mr. Clark.'] It is on account of the position of those mills in the harbour that the water carriage will be so strong in opposition ?—Yes. 3192. Mr. Wright.] Referring to the Hamilfcon-Te Aroha line, what amount will be required in excess of existing .contracts to complete the first section of the line ? —The present contract will complete 14 miles of the Waikato-Thames line, including the Hamilton branch. The existing contract is £9,930. The cost of the bridge will be about £25,000 ; and the permanent way and buildings, including rails, will be £27,000. 3193. Can you give any estimate of the cost of completing that line to the bank of the Thames ?— Including rails and buildings, the line could be carried to Te Aroha for about £54,000, in addition to the present outlay —that is, including the figures I have already given. 3194. Do you anticipate any extra cost in completing the line over the Piafeo Swamp through the settling down of the line ? —None whatever. There is a very much worse swamp on the line from Hamilton to Ohaupo. The Piako Swamp is a very much less difficult swamp than the Ohaupo Swamp. The present contract takes the railway really over the only soft part in it. 3195. Mr. Clark.] At what point are you calculating upon striking the river ? —lt will strike the river somewhere about the present landing at Te Aroha. 3196. Have you examined the ground with the view of seeing whether the line could not be got to strike the river at the junction of the Pairoa, on the Ohinemuri ? —Generally, I have. 319.7. Do you think there would be any engineering difficulties? —No, excepting that you would get into the lower swamp, and avoid the whole of the Te Aroha Block. Any extension further up the Matamata Valley would be lengthened thereby. 3198. But, having in view the extension of the line to Grahamstown, do you take into consideration the present landing at Omahu ? —-We do not go within 4 miles of the present landing. We turn down from the Te Aroha Block, and cross the river about 5 or 6 miles below. 3199. What would be the additional length in order to strike at the junction of the Ohinemuri ?—- The line from Waikato to Grahamstown would be shorter if it struck down there. 3200. Would not any additional line between the Waikato Bridge and Grahamstown also be shortened ? —Tes, between Piako and where the diversion takes place to Grahamstown it would shorten the line. It would make no difference between Waikato and Piako. The divergence would take place after crossing the Piako Biver. 3201. I am speaking of between the Piako and the Thames?—lt would shorten the line from the point of starting and Ohinemuri. 3202. But would not the section between the Thames and Grahamstown also be shortened ? —No ; it would simply come to the same thing. 3203. But the line between Ohinemuri and the crossing at Omahu would be shortened ? —No; it would not go near Omahu. lam speaking simply of the line between Piako and Grahamstown, which would be shortened by going from Piako to Ohinemuri. 3204. Mr. Wright.] Would not the diversion to Ohinemuri be at the cost of any future extension through the Te Aroha Block ? —Yes; I think it would be a bad thing to do for the sake of shortening the line for a mile or so, and it would leave an immense amount of good land to get into land which is certainly no better. It would leave one part of the country unconnected with the railway simply for the sake of shortening the line for a mile or so. The proposed deviation would not work in with any permanent system of extension up the Matamata Valley. 3205. What is the estimated cost of the Thames Valley Eailway ? Can you furnish an estimate of the cost of carrying the line from Grahamstown to Te Aroha ? —£112,000, including permanent way, buildings, rails, and a bridge over the Thames, at Waihau. 3206. Have you any knowledge of the land that would be served by that line of railway?—Yes, a general knowledge. 3207. Is there much settlement in that district ? —Very little aa yet. The land is very good between the Rotukohu range of hills and Shortland. 3208. Would not the construction of the railway at the present time interfere with the acquisition of the land from the Natives ? —I am not aware of that. 3209. Do you not think they would be likely to ask a higher price for their land with a railway through it than for the land wiihout a railway?—l think a very large portion of that land has been acquired. 3210. Would not the Natives be likely to ask a higher price for their land with a railway ?— Yes; I think so. They are very often advised by Europeans, and that is exactly what Europeans would do.
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3211. Would not the Government probably be able to purchase the land at a much lower price before the railway is made ?—Yes ; I think it is very likely.
The following statement was submitted to the Commission by a number of settlers in the Waihou"Waitoa Districts :— We assume, in making this statement, that the first section, as far as Morrinsville, now under contract, must be completed ; but we are of opinion that, in consequence of the limited number of settlers to whom the line that far would be available, the benefits of railway communication would be very much curtailed, and, without offering any opinion whether the lino that far would pay working expenses, we are convinced that, to make it as profitable as it might be, it will be necessary to extend it so as to secure the traffic of the Thames A^alley settlers. The grounds of that conviction are based on the following considerations : — 1. That, unless the line be extended towards the Thames River, there is no probability of its being made use of by any of the undersigned, nor by any of those who may hereafter acquire land between, the Waitoa paid Thames Uivers. 2. That the progress of this district since the first settlers came into it, about two and a half years ago, has been exceedingly rapid, showing that the district has great capabilities, which would be more rapidly developed were through railway communication established. 3. That, in addition to the large outward traffic in farm produce which the railway would create, a very important part of the trade would be the carrying inward of timber, coals, fencing material, and other requisites. The district is almost entitely devoid of timber suitable either for building purposes or for firewood. While coal can be obtained at the Waikato mines for a few shillings per ton, it cannot now be obtained here at a less cost than 455. per ton lauded on the river bank. 4. That, besides the goods and passenger traffic of the district, there would be a considerable passenger traffic from outlying districts. Auckland could be reached in one day from Tauranga, for the journey overland could be made in a fewr hours, and a great boon would thus be conferred on the travelling public on that side. 5. It cannot be unknown to the Commissioners that there is a large extent of Government land in the Thames Valley still unsold. This would be largely enhanced in value by the construction of a railway through it, and the advanced price would be an offset agaiust the cost of construction worthy of consideration. 6. The cost of this section would be exceedingly small, passing as it would over country which is for the most part perfectly level, and not requiring any expensive bridges. A survey was made about two years ago by Mr. Carr, and no doubt the Government is in possession of data compiled by him respecting cost of construction. In many places the subsoil is of a gravelly nature, so that the outlay for ballasting would be moderate. Finally. The trade of this district passing over the first section to Morrisville would insure its profitable working also, and the profits of the main line would be proportionately increased.
Wiiangakei, Tuesday, Ist June, 1880. Mr. Charles B. Knobpp, C.E.,. sworn and examined. 3212. The Chairman.'] Are you connected with railway works in this locality?—l am employed in making a reconnaissance of a proposed railway line from Helensville to Whangarei. 3213. Mr. Clark.'] Have you traversed the line between Kaukapakapa and the Whangarei end?— Yes ; we have taken the levels and made the necessary measurements. 3214. Have you found it a practicable line for a railway ? —Yes, I think so. The gradients will be mostly 1 in 50, and in three or four places 1 in 40. 3215. Are there many places where the gradients will be so high ? —The gradients I hare stated would indicate the general character of the line. 3216. What is the character of the land through which the line passes? —The first part of the line north of Kaukapakapa, for 3 or 4 miles, to Wellsford, is all bush-land, and there are several high ranges, one range succeeding the other. The hills are from GOO to 800 feet above the level of the sea, and the valleys are between 200 feet and 300 feet. I have had to work up and down and through the ranges in that way. There is a great deal of large kauri in the bush, and also a good deal of rimu and several other of the ordinary New Zealand timbers. The undergrowth is very thick. It is so thick, especially in the first part, that you cannot see a few yards in any direction when once you get into the bush. Except in one or two places the land cannot be called precipitous, but it slopes considerably, and many valleys have moderate rises from the streams up towards the hills, and are well sheltered from the winds; they lie, most of them, North and South and East and West. The land, except on the very high ranges, appears to have a considerable thickness of alluvial soil, and, judging from the vegetation which grows there, I think it would grow grass very well. In some places where clearings have been made the grass grows very well. The settlers do not seem to have many cattle, and they allow the tea-tree to grow up again. 3217. Where are the settlers located ? —First on the Arapirira. There are the Kaipara flats with a few thousand acres of rolling downs cleared pretty well, and good grass; I think they grow a little grain on the land, too. There are some forty or fifty houses there. There is no other settlement, except one or two solitary settlers, until you get near Wellsford ; —there are a great many there ; the land, I believe, is not very good. There are no settlers again until you come to Kaiwaka, which is on a branch of the Kaipara Harbour; —they are all branches of the Kaipara Harbour. There is not much to be done there ; but the difficulty there in engineering is that you have to go down to sea-level, and the hills in between, although not so high as they are inland, are very close together. From there you get to Maungatoroto. There is very good land there; it is limestone country. There is no settlement for 7or 8 miles beyond that. The country is then again partly bush and partly gum fields, with occasional valleys, until you get to Waikiki. There are a few settlers there, and some very good Government
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land. The soil is a reddish loam, and good grass grows. There is said to be a good deal of Government land there still unopened. There are a few settlers at Mangapai and inland at a place they call Maungakaramea ; there is said to be 4,000 acres of volcanic soil. From that point to Whangarei there are only a few settlers. It is all clay up to Limestone Creek. In all the valleys wherever they have tried they have raised very good orchards; peaches and other fruits grow very well. There is very little grain grown except in patches. They import most of their potatoes. There are indications of coal. 3218. How far is Maungakaramea from the navigation ?—lt is not more than 12 miles. I have seen some of the land at Waikiki, and there is some very good land there ; that is 6 miles further on. That part of the line would be comparatively cheap ; it would not cost more than £6,000 a mile; there would be no tunnels. I think there would be only one tunnel 6or 7 chains long near Maungatoroto. The formation of the country up to that point is such that it would not be an expensive line; but beyond that it gets expensive. 3219. What distance would the line traverse between Helensville and Whangarei ?—I think it would be about from 90 to 100 miles. At a rough estimate, the cost would be from £750,000 to £800,000. There is no large range to cross, but there are heavy banks and cuttings. There would be two tunnels of 19 chains long, one 12 chains, and another 10 chains. There seems to be rock there; but the tunnels will probably have to be lined. One great difficulty is the want of ballast. There is timber enough there for all purposes. 3220. From what you have seen of the country, do you think there is not much of it suitable for agricultural purposes ? —lt does not consist of plains. 3221. Do you think it would be more suitable for dairy farms, even if the timber were cleared oft'? —The best thing, I think, would be fruit; I think they could supply the whole of the colony with fruit. I think they are throwing away their labour in trying to raise cattle and grain, when these things can be grown so much cheaper in other places. They are all struggling men. 3222. Mr. Wright.] Will the mileage on the surveyed line be very much in excess of a direct line between Helensville and Whangarei ?—lt will be somewhat in excess, but there is no possibility of getting a shorter line. We have to go zigzag in order to get good gradients and avoid the big ranges. 3223. Is not the whole of this land you speak of reasonably accessible from Whangarei and Kaipara Harbours by road? —No; the Kaipara steamers go within 2 miles of Maungatoroto—that is, where the limestone land is. Kaiwaka is also in the same bight, and you can get there easily enough. 3224. Can you say what acreage of open land there is between Helensville and Whangarei?— There is very little, except around Whangarei and 12 miles south of that: that is nearly all open. 3225. Are the hill-slopes too steep to plough ? —Not generally too steep. Mr. Joseph Bennett sworn and examined. 3226. Mr. Wright.'] Are you manager of the Whangarei Coal Mine? —I am sole proprietor of the Kamo Colliery. 3227. How long has that mine been opened out ? —About eighteen months. 3228. What extent of ground have you ?—About 1,500 acres. 3229. How much of that do you consider proved ?—We believe all of it to be coal. 3230. How much of it have you proved by shafts or drives ? —lt would be impossible for me to say how much we have really proved, the quantity is so great. 3231. What is the thickness of the seam ? —About 10 feet: in places it is 12 feet and 14 feet thick. I may safely say that one seam is on an average about 10 feet thick. Then there is another seam, which may be put down as averaging 4| feet in thickness ; where we have seen it it is 5$ feet thick. 3232. What advantages do you offer to the public to induce the Government to expend money in bringing the coal to deep water ? —We can supply it cheaper than any other coal; and, with a railway to deep water, we have one of the best and most accessible harbours in New Zealand. We do supply it cheaper now than any other coal. I am supplying the Union Company at 10s. per ton at the loading ground, on Limestone Island, Whaugarei. I have only done that on the faith that the promises made by the Government would be carried out —namely, that they would make the railway to deep water in terms of certain plans and specifications now in the Public Works Office. 3233. In the event of the railway being carried to deep water, are you prepared to guarantee 6 vet cent, on the cost of the entire work ? —Provided always that we get a monopoly of the railway, I am prepared to give 6 per cent, on the whole expenditure; that is, if the railway is handed over to me. 3234. What guarantee would you give ?—The usual guarantee —a bank guarantee. The same guarantee that the Kawakawa Company give. 3235. Would you be prepared to pledge your property as a guarantee to pay 6 per cent, over and above the cost of working and maintenance ?—Yes. 3236. Colonel Pearce.] Is the quality of the Whangarei coal equal to the Kawakawa coal? —I should prefer to hand in a memorandum showing that nearly everybody who has used the coal says that it is quite equal to Newcastle coal, and equal of course to the Kawakawa coal. In my opinion it is better than the Kawakawa coal. It requires more careful handling, but it contains more heat, and it is good also for gas. It is very good for household purposes. I consider it is equal to any coal in the colonies. 3237. Mr. Clark.] You have stated that you would be willing to guarantee interest on cost of construction if the line were handed over to you and you were granted a monopoly of it. I wish to know how that would affect any other collieries which might be opened out ?—lt would affect them very much. If I paid interest on the entire cost of the railway, I would not allow it to be used by any opposition colliery. 3238. Not even at a reasonable price ?—Self-preservation would naturally be the first consideration with me; but Ido not think that the people about the place would submit to it. There are seams of great value within a very short distance of my property, and I know the people would not consent to a monopoly being granted to one proprietor.
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3239. "What* distance have you driven on the seam ?—About 1,200 or 1,300 feet to the main adit. 3240. What is the length of the cross-cuts ? —No end of cross-cuts have been driven ; 3,500 feet of rails were laid in the mines. 3241. Many of these are parallel. I wish to bring out the extent already proven by drives or adits ? —There are only two parallel adits or drives. Altogether GOO acres of coal have been proven by drives. If it continues as at present, it will go through two miles of our country. It trends in the centre. 3242. Are the 600 acres you refer to all above water level ? —Yes. 3243. What is the distance from those workings to the place where you have tapped the coal at the bore ?—Two hundred yards. The thickness of the upper seam is 5 feet—the same thickness as in the upper level. Within 150 yards of that bore-hole we sank a trial shaft, and got two seams of coal. That is nearer the present workings. We believe there are other seams below these. 3244. Can you give any information regarding the quality of the land beyond Kamo which micht give traffic to this line of railway ? —There are very good patches of agricultural land on the other side of Kamo, and there are particularly good coal seams. There is no better coal in any part of the world. There are tracts of Government land in the vicinity, and there is a magnificent swamp, which. I believe it is proposed to reclaim. From that on to Kawakawa, and on the bank of the Wairoa, there are magnificent blocks of good land. 3245. At what do you estimate the cost of barging coal, either from the township, or from the terminus of the present contract, from the township to deep water ? —The cost will depend upon the output. 3246. What do you estimate the cost would be, taking into consideration the probable output, with a railway running to either of those points ? —lt could not possibly be done for less than about Is. 6d. I think that is understating it. I believe bargemen are only getting lid. per ton at Kawakawa. Then there is the first cost of the plant, and depreciation, which is very great. 3247. That would not include any loss which might arise through your being unable to deliver the quantity of coal required? —You could never have an extensive colliery with barges. 32-18. Mr. Wright.~\ You stated that you would be willing to guarantee 6 per cent, on the cost of the line, provided that you had a monopoly of it. As that is a very unlikely thing for the Government to grant, would you be prepared to guarantee the difference between the revenue at current rates for carrying coal and what would represent 6 per cent, on the outlay ? —I am satisfied that my colliery alone would pay that, at current rates. 3249. Would you be prepared to guarantee any deficiency ? —lf you place me in a position to work the line to the very best advantage, I could do it. As a lessee at the rental of 6 per cent, on the outlay, I am satisfied my colliery would pay (5 per cent, on the outlay, irrespective of other coal which would go down. The line will pay very well if taken down to deep water. There is a large population in the vicinity of Kamo. 3250. Do you know what would be the amount of capital on which 6 per cent, would have to be paid, if the line were carried from the mine to deep water ?—I know pretty well. I dare say it would cost £50,000. I think the engineer's estimate is considerably more, but he has overstated it. 3251. Is your estimate of the productiveness of the lino based on an estimated expenditure of £50,000 ?—Not altogether. I would be quite willing to guarantee 6 per cent., if I had a monopoly given to me, on a larger sum than £50,000. At the same time, Ido not think it will cost more than £50,000. 3252. Have any. efforts been made to carry out the line under the District Eailways Act ?■—l do not think so. I have not heard of any. 3253. Mr. Clark.] AVould you be inclined to make any proposition as regards a scale of charges which, in the event of your leasing the line, you would charge to the proprietors of any other colliery which might be opened? —I understand there is a regular Government tariff from which you cannot well depart. I would not care about adopting a prohibitory tariff. 3254. In the event of your leasing the line or becoming security for the interest up to 6 per cent., would you be prepared to throw the line open under a tariff agreed upon between yourself and the Government? —No; I should not like to do that at all. If I had to give a guarantee to pay 6 per cent, on the outlay I should not care about saddling myself with any responsibility beyond that. I would not say that anybody else's coal could go at a certain price. I would do my best to make the line pay. If a guarantee is insisted upon we would naturally want a monopoly. 3255. Mr. Wright."] In other words, you would not depend upon the ordinary charge of 2d. a ton on all coal outside of your own ? —No. I should like a little more, because I should like to give my own coal all the advantage I could in order to undersell everybody else. lam quite satisfied we could, pay slightly more than the ordinary rates charged by the Government, and then undersell any coal I know of in New Zealand, either to the Union Company's boats or to the mail-boats. 3256. Then the Government would be justified, under those circumstances, in establishing a higher rate? —On the contrary, I think the Government would be justified in charging a lower rate, because the country benefits very largely by getting the coal cheap. 3257. Would you feel satisfied to pay a somewhat higher rate than the current rate for the privilege of having that line of railway ? —lt is a very great privilege, no doubt; and if the Government will say, " There is the line for you, as proprietor of the Kamo Colliery ; you can take it, and pay 6 per cent," lam willing to do that; but I do not think I should be called upon to pay higher rates than are generally paid throughout New Zealand. 3258. Mr. Clark.} Even although by doing so you would be relieved from giving any guarantee on the cost? —I believe that, on a short line like this one, we ought to pay more than the ordinary rate. We would be glad to pay something in excess of the ordinary rates, taking into consideration the shortness of the line. The following statement was furnished to the Commission by Mr. G. E. Alderton, Honorary Secretary to the North Auckland Ea'ilvvay Committee : — 23—E. 3.
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Wlmngarei-Kamo Railway. —l. The population in the immediate vicinity of this railway was, in 1878, about 2,500; but the population has increased very rapidly since—l should think nearly doubled; few districts have made more rapid progress. 2. The peculiarity of the district is that all the farms are small holdings; or, in other words, the land is owned and tilled by many people. 3. The probable traffic the line is likely to get, exclusive of coal traffic, will depend very materially on whether the line is continued down to deep wafer or not. At present I estimate there are about thirty drays passing between Whangarei and Kamo daily ; but were the roads passable, or were there the means of cheap transit, this traffic would increase to an extent I hardly like to compute. The difference in cost of freight from the deep-water terminus, and from the Whangarei "Wharf to Auckland, would be about 2s. 6d. a ton, owing to the tortuous navigation of the river between the two named points ; and this extra cost of freight debars settlers from importing or exporting heavy produce, such as potatoes, wheat, cereals, &c, as when the article reaches a market it is shut out perforce of excessive carriage charges. The district at the back of Kamo is well adapted —in fact, specially adapted—to growing cereals and root crops ; but, owing to cost of carriage to a market, it at present is only a grazing country, but if the railway is continued to deep water, the land in the district will be utilized in a more profitable manner, and the railway traffic thereby increased. The immense kauri forests at the back of the Kamo would also be reduced to building-timber, and sent along the line to the shipping for export. The export of sheep, cattle, horses, and settlers' produce has hitherto been restricted owing to the uncertainty of vessels clearing the river (from the Whangarei Wharf against baffling winds and tidal difficulties) without loss. I would further point out that, if the line were continued to deep water, the railway would get all the traffic of goods from the terminus to Whangarei Township, and the trading shipping would not then come up to Whangarei. Since the railway commenced the district has made very rapid progress and drawn a large increase of population ; and I believe that no piece of railway in the colony will pay better than this, nor any do more for bond fide welfare of a district and the colony.
Kawakawa, Wednesday, 2nd June, 1880. Mr. Thomas D. Tmphook, Eesident Engineer of the Kawakawa Eailway, sworn and examined. 3259. Mr. Wright.'] Will you state the present condition of the railway works between Kawakawa and Deepwater? —What is known as the first section of the Kawakawa Eailway is completed to the point known as the Derrick. Three miles altogether have been constructed. 3260. Is the second section under contract ? —Part of it is under contract. The first mile of the second section is under contract. 3261. What is the amount of that contract ? —£9,274 9s. lOd.: that is exclusive of permanent way. It includes formation only, together with the Kawakawa Bridge. 3262. What extent of the line remains to be made beyond that to the point selected for the Deepwater wharf? —Four miles beyond the first mile. 3263. What is the estimated cost of that work ? —I estimate the cost of No. 2 section, which extends for a distance of 2 miles 20 chains, at about £15,000. Out of that section a contract has been let, amounting to £9,000 for one mile. 3264. Do you think the remaining mile and seventy chains will be completed for the balance of £5,800 ?—Yes." 3265. What does the estimate of £15,000 cover? —It includes earthwork, bridges, culverts, and fencing. It does not include permanent way and buildings. 3266. Does that represent a fair average on the total length of 5 miles ?■—l think so. I should gay that the remaining distance, if anything, is more favourable than No. 2 section. I believe that No. 3 section is more favourable. The 5 miles, exclusive of permanent way and buildings, would cost about £22,000. That does not include the wharf. 3267. Would an additional £2,000 per mile cover the cost of permanent way and buildings ?—The cost of the permanent way would be the average cost on New Zealand standard lines. 3268. Then the permanent way and buildings would approximately cost £2,000 a mile additional? —I think so. 3269. What sum would it be necessary to add for the Deepwater wharf? —I am not prepared to answer that question, because the description of wharf is now under the consideration of the Engineer-in-Chief. There has been, I understand, considerable discussion as to what kind of wharf is required, either for storage or discharge of coal. I have heard a single-deck wharf or a double-deck wharf suggested, the one to suit the ordinary traffic, and the other to discharge the coals by means of staiths. The estimate of cost would of course vary according to design. 3270. How long, according to the present rate of progress, will it take to complete this line of railway to Deepwater? —That is a matter for the contractor and the Government to arrange between them. But I have formed the opinion in my own mind that it will take two years to get down to the Deepwater wharf —that is to say, to complete the line. I think the whole concern ought to be finished in two years from the present time. 3271. Of course until the line is completed every shilling expended in the prosecution of this work is unproductive, as it pays no interest whatever?—l do not know what the arrangements of the Government are; but it is impossible that any arrangement such as we are proposing now could be operative until the line is finished. 3272. Has any arrangement been made to supply the coal owners with more wagons ?—I have not heard of any. 3273. Do you think they have a reasonable number supplied to them at present for bringing the coal from the mine to the barges ? —-I do not know. I know nothing about the output, except what I see of the coal going down, which I understand to be 200 tons a day, or thereabouts. Whether they could carry more or less than that with their present rolling-stock is, I think, a matter connected with, the working of the mine,
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3274. Have they sufficient trucks to fill one of their punts with a single train-load ?—One train load would scarcely fill one of their barges. 3275. Then they have not sufficient trucks to fill a barge at one trip ?—Not if they have only eighteen trucks in one train. 3276. Is the grade from the mine to the Deepwater wharf a continuously-descending one ?—No. 3277. Are there any serious ascending grades ? —None at all, inside lin 100. That is the steepest that can possibly interfere with the working. 3278. Mr. Clark.'] Do you know what arrangement this line is worked under, as between the Government and the Coal Company ? —The whole arrangements of the line, of my own knowledge, are in the hands of the Manager of the Bay of Islands Coal Company ; but beyond that I know nothing. 3279. Mr. Wright.'] What is the character of the land between Kawakawa and Hokianga ?—For the first 7or 8 miles from here the land is very poor. After that the valuable land begins, and spreads out and takes the form of undulating low downs covered with grass and patches of bush. The formation is the same as that in which the coal formation generally appears, aud it extends almost the whole distance across to Hokianga, judging by the existence there of the white rock which is seen about Kawakawa. That sort of country appears to extend the whole distance on the southern side of the road to Hokianga. On the northern side of the road the land is of a very superior quality indeed. I should say that there is a strip of from 5 to 7 miles wide of first-class land. I am not able to say what there is beyond that strip of land, as I have only been over the country once. When you get to Hokianga, you enter upon a magnificent sheet of water, with great capacity for internal communication with other parts of the district, extending, lam told, 30 or 40 miles up into the interior. The land there is suitable for fruit-growing, and agricultural pursuits. 3280. Over what length does this land extend which you say is from 5 to 7 miles in width ?—There is at least from 20 to 30 miles in length of such land. 3281. From your profession as a surveyor I suppose you are competent to judge of distances?— Yes ; I think lam quite competent to give such an opinion as that. Looking at the country professionally, with a view to gradients between Hokianga and this place, I endeavoured to ascertain if there was anything to justify the Government in constructing a railway from the Bay of Islands to Hokianga. I made inquiries as to the merits of the Hokianga Harbour. It is agreed that it is very bad, and I came to the conclusion that the right course for opening such a country would be to extend the line from the Bay of Islands to Hokianga. 3282. Colonel Pearce.~\ Do you mean that the bar is bad at Hokianga? —Tes. 3283. Mr. Wright.'] Can you give any information as to the extent of the coal deposits beyond Kawakawa?—l should say that they extend towards Hokianga over almost the whole distance, judging from the formation, which is precisely the same as at Kawakawa. 3284. Has the coal been found at any intermediate points?—Tes, considerably farther back than at Kawakawa, towards Hokianga. It has been found about 3 miles farther back, on land belonging to Mr. Mark Brown. 3285. Is the bulk of that supposed coal field in the hands of the Government, or in the hands of the Natives ? —I believe it is in the hands of the Natives. The coal field which is in the hands of the Government here is, I believe, a very small matter. It is small when compared with the bulk of the coal that exists. 3286. Mr. ClarJc.~] Would the present line of railway, known as the Kawakawa line, form part of a line to connect the country to which you have referred with the Bay of Islands ?—Tes. I do not think it would be possible to construct any other line which would be so payable. There would be no difficulties in constructing the line. It is much easier country over which to make a railway than the country through which we are now making this lino. The place where we are now working is exceptionally-difficult country. 3287. Are you aware whether the coal crops up south of Kawakawa? —I have heard that it does. Mr. Thomas T. Moody, manager of the Bay of Islands Coal Company, sworn and examined. 3288. Mr. Wright.] How long have you held your present position ?—About eighteen months. 3289. What is the extent of the Bay of Islands Coal Company's property ? —-The extent of the leased land is about 3,000 acres, and of the freehold 1,000 acres. 3290. To what extent has that area been proved? —It has been proved over about 500 acres. 3291. Has it been Droved in such a manner as to lead you to suppose that the whole of the rest of the area is coal-bearing ? —Tes. 3292. What are your present difficulties in the way of working this mine ? —Our chief difficulty is the want of railway communication. 3293. And, pending railway extension, what are your temporary difficulties in the way of rollingstock ? —Our difficulty has been the shortness of the supply of rolling-stock, and in having to contend with difficulties in connection with the river communication. 3291*. What additional number of wagons would suffice to enable you to carry on the work satisfactorily until the railway is completed ? —From eighteen to twenty more ; we have eighteen at present. 3295. What is the thickness of the coal generally ?—lt varies from 6 feet to 16 feet—from 6 feet at the outcrop to 16 feet in the heart of the property. 3296. What number of miners are now employed ? —There are about sixty-two coal-miners, and about one hundred and twenty hands altogether. 3297. Have you any serious difficulty to contend with in the way of pumping? —-Tes. 3298. Can you inform the Commission on what conditions this leasehold ground is worked?—l believe it is worked on a royalty. It is leased from the Government, I believe, at 6d. a ton on all coal produced. 3299. As to the section of railway already completed, are you aware of the conditions under which it is worked ? —I believe we have to pay 6 per cent, on the cost of construction, and, in addition to that, we have to maintain the line so far as to renew the rails and to keep it in order,
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3300. Is it one of the conditions that the line shall be maintained in good order ?—Yes. 3301. Colonel Pearce.] Does the guarantee of 0 per cent, include the extension of the railway to the proposed Deepwater wharf ? —I believe it does. 1 believe there is an agreement between the Company and the Government that 0 per cent, on the cost of construction shall be paid when the railway is completed to Deepwater. lam not aware whether the company pays anything at present. I believe it is to be paid when the railway is completed to Deepwater. 3302. Until what period ?—I do not know ; in fact, I do not know much about it. 3303. Are you uuder the supervision of any Government official ?—No. 3304. Are you allowed to run the line as you please ? —-Yes. 3305. Do you take all the fares ? —Yes. 3306. In fact, you are working it at present for the Government?—No ; for the Company. 3307. Mr. Wright.] I understand you are doubtful whether the 6 per cent, is paid ? —Yes. 3308. Colonel Pearce.] And you take all the receipts ?—lt takes all the receipts to repair the line. The rails have to be frequently renewed on account of their lightness. 3309. Do you pay the wages of the men ? —Yes. 3310. Mr. Clark.] Does the rolling-stock belong to the Government ?—Yes. 3311. And for anything you know the Company pays nothing towards the depreciation of that stock?—No. 3312. What are your expenses in connection with barging the coal from the derrick to the loadingground ?—Altogether about Is. Gd. per ton. 3313. Does that include the wear and tear of the barges, interest on the barges, as well as the contract price for doing the work ? —-About that, I think. 3314. Does the fact of your having to barge the coal and wait for the tide in the river inconvenience the company as regards the supply of coal to their customers ? —Yes, very much. 3315. Could you produce much more coal than at present if you had the convenience for taking it away in larger quantities ? —Yes. I may explain that our average production at present is something like 200 tons per day. We are compelled to keep a staff of officers and men sufficient to produce 400 tons a clay, and our plant is on a similar scale. We could produce double the present quantity with the same number of hands and at the same cost if we had the means of taking it away. 3316. Mr. Wright.] What would be the saving per ton to the Company on the completion of the railway as against the present system ? —Three shillings a ton, talcing everything into account. 3317. What is the price at which you now supply the coal? —-Thirteen shillings on board ship. That includes the trimming of the vessels, which is done at our own cost. 3318. Mr. Clark.] In stating 3s. as the probable saving, do you deduct from the actual saving interest on the cost of constructing the whole line ? —No. 3319. Colonel Pearce.] Does the quality of your coal alter as you go into the mine?—lt gets better as we go in. It is better now than it was eighteen months ago. It was then small; but it is now much larger, and cleaner and better in every respect. On account of the increased depth, it is very hard. As far as I can see, that improvement is likely to go on. The coal is very hard where we made the last opening. 3320. Mr. Wright.] Would not the 3s. pet- ton which you would save on the quantity of coal that you would be enabled to turn out with this facility, leave a large margin of profit after paying interest on the railway ? —Yes. In a colliery of this description you must produce a large quantity to make it pay. We are only producing 200 tons a day at present, and we are under very large cost in connection with pumping; whereas if we produced 400 tons per day we could work the mine at the same expense as at present so far as the general expenses are concerned. During the last sixteen months, up to April last, we produced 51,883 tons, which is at the rate of 3,430 tons per month. Since then we have increased the quantity considerably. During the last five months, ending May, we* produced 21,884 tons. That is an average of 4,377 tons per month for the last five months. Twelve months at that rate would give 52,524 tons. Last night, owing to the heavy rain, the barges could not come up, and consequently to-day we are not working; whereas if we had additional rolling-stock we could go on working—we could have a supph r of coal in the trucks. 3321. Colonel Pearee.] Are there any known valuable deposits of coal in this neighbourhood outside your Company's land ?—No ; but we have reason to believe that the coal is continuous over a very large area. 3322. Mr. Wright.] That has not been proved ? —No. 3323. Colonel Pearce.] Are there likely to be any claims for the use of this railway line on the part of other coal-mine owners ? —I do not think so. Coal has been discovered to the north of this place —at Whangaroa. 3324. Mr. Wright.] Do you know anything of the district between Kawakawa and liokianga?—• Yes. 3325. Is there any good land in that district ?—Yes ; excellent laud. I cannot give the area, but there is a very large extent. 3326. Are you satisfied that the quality of the soil is first-class?—Yes ; and it is a largely-settled district. The settlers occupy their own freeholds, and produce stock principally. There are about two hundred people at Waimate. There is a good road to that place. 3327. Is not the bulk of the good land in the hands of the Natives ?—Yes ; there is still a very large area in the hands of the Natives.
Napier, Sattjeday, sth Jttne, 1880. Mr. William Haekee sworn and examined. 3328. The Chairman.'] You wish to give evidence with reference to a seam of coal recently discovered. "Will you be good enough to state what district it is in, and any other particulars which have come to your knowledge ? — I was prospecting with a party in the Seventy-Mile Bush, when we
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discovered traces of coal and followed them up. We found a large seam. We immediately communicated with Mr. Rolleston, Minister of Lands, who referred us to the Waste Lands Board here. We sent in an application to the Waste Lands Board, giving particulars, and they have granted us provisional licenses for twelve months. 3329. Is the seam in the neighbourhood of the line of railway ?—The railway, I understand, will be open to Makatoko shortly. There is a straight line of road running from Makatoko, about 4 miles in length, and a continuation of that road for 2 miles would take you to the coal seams. 3330. What is the total distance from the line of railway?—Six miles—4 to Makatoko and 2 miles farther on. It is perfectly level country, and there is already a road for 4 miles. I was speaking to Mr. Carr, railway engineer, with reference to it. It will be a long time before the line is open to Woodville, and if a small line were opened to the coal it could be used for passengers to the junction with the coach-road, and there would th,en be 4 miles of carriage-road less to maintain. There could be a temporary station about a mile on this side of the Maungatawainui Bridge. 3331. Do I then understand you that your object is to impress the necessity of constructing a branch line for these 6 miles ? —Of course the coal would be undeveloped if there is no railway. It would not pay to cart coal 6 miles before the railway was reached. I might state that the coal is situated where there is the highest inhabited house in the North Island, and therefore it is down-hill all the way to Napier or to Wellington. As soon as the line was opened to Wellington there would be a coal field in direct communication with Wellington. 3332. Mr. Wright."] Can you indicate on the map the direction of this coal field ? —Yes. It is Block IV., Norse wood Survey District. 3333. How many miles is it from Norsewood ?—lt is really in the Norsewood District. 3334. But from the township ?—About 2 miles. 3335. The Chairman.'] Have you had any practical test made as to the value of the coal?—Yes. We sent a sample to Dr. Hector. The Doctor was away, but Mr. Skey made an analysis ; and I have the rpsult in my pocket. I should say that I only sent an outside specimen of waterlogged coal —it was in the creek. The seam runs down into the water. [Analysis put in, and read as follows: —] Lignite. Moderately hard and coherent. Colour of ash, red. Composition as received here —Fixed carbon, 27'90 ; hydrocarbon, 28'60; water, 37'70; ash, 580: total, 100. A fairly good combustible of the brown-coal series, but evidently waterlogged. Should be well seasoned before use. 8836. Can you state the thickness of the seam ? —There are three seams, one above the other. These are on a hill, at the foot of which is the Maungatawainui Biver. The hill was swept by the recent floods, and was left quite bare, leaving the coal exposed. 3337. Can you tell the thickness ?—The seams are each about 4 feet thick, with sandstone between. 3338. Colonel Pearce.~\ Did you make any borings to test the coal ?—We tunnelled to see if the seams went in, We went in about 12 feet, and found the seams run through. 3339. Have you sunk any shaft ?—No; we tunnelled in from the bottom, as it was easier than sinking a shaft. 33-10. Mr. Wright.'] What was the total area exposed? You said, "the whole hillside:" can you express it in yards or chains ? —About 20 yards. 3311. Could you say at what inclination the coal lies ? What is the rise of the hill ?—About lin3. 3342. If I understand your description of the site correctly, it will be within 2 miles of the main line? —Off the mainline of road; and then there is a direct line of road from Makatoko Station, 4 miles. 3343. Colonel Pearce.] Has any expert reported on the probable extent of the field ? —The Waste Lands Board resolved to write to the Minister of Lauds to get some one from the Geological Survey Office to come down and report. 3344. Mr. Wright.] What do you mean by these 6 miles of railway ? Do you expect the Government to construct it for your benefit ?—We thought that if the coal were good and plentiful a tramway would pay. We do not expect the Government to construct it unless the traffic would remunerate them sufficiently. 3345. Do you not think it would be more reasonable that, if the Government made these 6 miles of railway, the coal field which would thereby be opened up should be put up to auction ?—Well, we found the coal field. It would not be much encouragement to prospectors if they found that the Government stepped in and took the fruit of their prospecting. These lands were going to be put up to auction, and we might have bought them at £2 an acre, but we straightforwardly told the Government that we had discovered the coal, that course being the most strictly honorable. It would be rather hard for us if, after trying to do what is right, we had the fruits of our discovery taken from us. We are satisfied to leave ourselves entirely in the hands of the Government. Mr. William James Millee, General Manager of the Napier-Kopua line, sworn and examined. 3346. Mr. Wright.] Will you be good enough to state what are the principal items of traffic on the Napier-Kopua line? —Wool, timber, firewood, and tallow. Those are about the whole of the products. There is no grain, or next to none. The other traffic is simply merchandise. 3347. What proportion does the goods traffic bear to the passenger traffic in money-value ?—I cannot quite say without the Gazette before me. I should say, in the proportion of four-fifths to one ■ —some months a little more, and some a little less than the passenger traffic. The receipts on the whole year are rather less from goods than from passengers. 3348. The goods traffic, you mean, is about four-ninths of the total?—That is about it. I should say that for every £1,000 taken for passengers we take £800 for goods. 3349. What is your charge for the carriage of timber, under the tariff?—l have not got it with me : it is the same as on the other lines in the colony.
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3350. The standard charge is -jd. per mile, f-d. for a certain distance. You carrv none for less than that ?—No. 3351. Do you consider that a lower rate would be remunerative ? —lt might be : I do not think it would. I cannot see that it would increase the traffic much. 3352. You do not think a reduction would increase the traffic ?—-No. My reason is, that the mills have no more orders than they can get out now, and the demand is not excessive. 3353. Nor is the charge excessive, in your opinion? —No, I do not think it is. 3354. What I wish to arrive at is this: Whether timber, in your opinion, could be carried at any material reduction and leave a profit to the railway?—For every truck-load of timber we bring down from the bush we have to haul an empty truck back ; and it is up-hill the whole way. There is no back-loading of any kind, or very little, bearing only a small proportion to the other. We have to lift a truck, which weighs 3} tons, 1,000 feet before we begin to get any load. 3355. Have you gone into a calculation to show you what margin of profit there now is on the carriage of timber at existing rates ? —No. 3356. But your impression is that it is low enough ?—Certainly. If there were a large traffic, or the possibility of it, it might pay to reduce the rates ; but I do not think there is much room for increase at present. 3357. And would that be contingent upon getting back-loading for the trucks ?—Partly, yes. 3358. Is it possible to make any reduction in the train-mileage without lessening the number of passengers ?—I think this line makes the lowest train-average of any in New Zealand —that is to say, for the length of line opened the number of trains are fewer. 3359. Has any material reduction taken place during the last six months ? —Yes ; we altered the time-table on the 6th March. We reduced the distance run by 46 miles a day. 3360. Which way ? —I mean both ways : the total reduction was 46 miles. 3361. What is the percentage, approximately ? —lt would be 20 per cent., if not more. 3362. And have you found the traffic suffer in consequence ?—No. It has been the slack time of the year; the reduction just came in right. I could not possibly have reduced it before then—not to have made it pay; because any reduction in the ordinary mileage during the busy season would simply necessitate our putting on goods trains three or four times a week, which would cost more. 3363. Then, with the number of passenger trains which run now you are enabled to carry goods? —Yes; we run no goods trains. 3364. Prom your knowledge of the district, do you anticipate any considerable increase in the traffic from the section, Napier to Kopua ?—No ; for the next year there are no hopes of any increase. 3365. What, in your opinion, would be the effect on this section of through-communication with Wellington? Would it secure any large proportion of the passenger traffic which now goes by sea ?— The passenger traffic between here and Wellington is likely to be a mere bagatelle. It would not be a very large item in making a railway pay. Ido not think above fifty or sixty people a week would go between here and Wellington. 3366. Is that estimate based on the numbers that now travel by coach?—By coach and steamer combined. Of course, in the summer-time, when things are busy, it might be more: it is not possible to tell exactly. 3367. What does the coal which you consume cost you per ton? —I think it is £1 14s. 9d. per ton. 3368. Whence is it obtained ?— From the Grey. We burn a mixture of coal and coke, both from the Grey. 3369. Can you say what proportion the cost of coal bears to the total working expenses ?— Speaking subject to correction, the expenditure for coal, I should say, would be about £150 out of each £1,000. I can get the figures exactly. 3370. Then it is from 15 to 20 per cent, of the total ? —Yes ; nearer 15 per cent. The proportion of expenditure for fuel is nearly one-eighth, or 125 per cent. 3371. Then the opening-up of a coal field which would give you coal at half the present cost would be equal to a saving of 6 to 7 per cent, on the total expenditure —supposing, of course, the coal to be of equal quality ? —Well, about that. 3372. That would bring your total expenditure down from 66 per 100 to 59 or 60 per 100 of receipts ? —Yes. 3373. Colonel Pearce.~\ How many stationmasters have you on these 65 miles under your charge ? —Five. The rest are also telegraphists and postmasters. 3374. Has every station a stationmaster?—Not every one. 3375. Is it not possible to diminish the number of officials ? —No. 3376. Are there no stations where a stationmaster could be dispensed with, leaving the guards to do the work ? —No. The largest expenditure is on the maintenance of the line. Possibly a reduction of platelayers' wages might save something, but I do not think it would be judicious. 3377. Has there been any large expenditure in the shape of renewals ? —Not very large. The principal extra expenditure, leaving out damage by floods, has been the renewal of sleepers —seventeen or eighteen miles which were laid with Oregon sleepers. 3378. How many years have they been down ?—We took out some a little over two years old. Nearly 12,000 have been taken out. 3379. What are you replacing them with?—Heart of totara. 3380. Do you find that best ?—I do not think there is any better. Ido not know what puriri is like; but I have never known heart-of-totara sleepers to be worn out by decay. 3381. Mr. Wriglit.~] Will the sleepers be all totara when the Oregon are out ?—No ;we have blue-gum, matai, kauri, and had even a few rimu. 3382. Does the rimu stand ?—-No ; we have taken it nearly all out. 3383. How many years do they last?—About four years, I dare say. I have had the tops of the inferior sleepers all opened out to keep them dry. 3384. How many are left ? —There should not be more than 400 or 500 now. 3385. And have the sleepers used for renewals been charged to the ordinary expenditure ? —Yes.
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3386. And to what account have you charged the repairs to damage caused by floods ? —We have paid for all damage done by floods from ordinary revenue, with the exception of two piles of a bridge, and those were charged to capital. The protective works at the Ngaruroro were a new work altogether. 3387. Colonel Pearce.) How do you justify paying for any new piles from capital? —On this ground: these piles were in but a very short time, and wrere scoured out owing to faulty construction. 3388. Mr. Wright.') Have you made any inquiries to ascertain whether you can obtain puriri sleepers from Auckland ?—I do not want them : totara are cheaper. 3389. At what price can you get them ? —1 think we have paid 2s. 3d. to 2s. lid. for the last lots. We paid more for them before ; but now we have got into the bush we can get them cheaper. I have a lot under offer for Is. 6d. 3390. Full size ?— Tea. 3391. What do you call full size ?—Eight inches by five —the new size. 3392. What weight of rails have you on this section ? —-Forty-pound as far as Kopua. The extension is laid with 52-lb. 3393. Is the extension laid with steel ? —Tes, I think so. 3394. Colonel Pearce.~\ When will the extension be opened ?—ln two months, if there are no heavy slips. 3395. What is the length of it ? —Six miles. I might say that the Ibbotson's joints are wearing out. Some of them have been six years in use. 3396. Mr. Wright.~\ Have you placed sleepers as close to the joints as possible ?—Tes. I propose to put another sleeper under them. It has not been authorized. 3397. Tou might do it without waiting for authorization. —A mile is being done now to try the effect. 3398. In the South Island they have placed sleepers underneath the joints. I think, looking at the limited traffic on this section, Mr. Miller, that you are to be complimented on the result of its working. I see your average is 66 —the lowest average in the North Island—and the traffic is small. What is it—£6oo per mile ?—No : £300 ; never beyond that.
Wellington, Wednesday, 23rd June, 1880. A deputation, consisting of the following gentlemen, waited upon the Commission at the Government Buildings: Sir William Eitzherbert, K.C.M.G., Messrs. Thomas Mason, M.H.E., W. W. Johnston, M.H.R., 11. Bunny, M.H.E., John Barton, C.E., D. Climie, C.E., H. Jackson, E. Morgan, James Cruickshank, Alexander Cruickshank, J. Brown, R. Lyon, Thomas Power, and W. A. Eitzherbert, C.E. 3399. Sir W. Fitzherbert said : I have been requested to introduce to you a deputation of settlers who are more or less interested in the West Coast Railway. A vote was taken in the House of Representatives for the construction of what was termed the Hutt-Waikanae Railway ; but by some means or other an expenditure was made on a totally different line, and the name of the line was changed into what is now called the Wellington-Eoxton Railway. These gentlemen—myself among the number— are interested in the matter. By " interested," Ido not mean in any pecuniary sense, for Ido not owrn an acre of land within 10 miles of the line of railway I advocate. They naturally feel an interest in it, as they belong to the locality. Some of us had also been in responsible positions when the question of communication between Wellington and the northern shore of Cook Strait as far as Taranaki was a subject of investigation. We felt it our duty to investigate the matter; and the result was, that the line from Waikanae or Otaki through to Mungaroa and the Upper Hutfc was the line which the most competent engineering authorities pronounced to be the most suitable. I may say that these engineering and exploring authorities were equal, at least, in ability to any that have yet appeared iu this country. I refer to Captain Thomas, to the late Captain Smith, Mr. Roy, and also to a very practical and able man, Mr. Baird. The result of these responsible investigations, extending over a long period, was the adoption of the Hutt-Waikanae line, which was under the consideration of the House of Representatives, and was put in a schedule of works agreed to be constructed. That is the line in which these gentlemen are interested, and they believe that a careful investigation of the country will show that that is the line which should be adopted. There are gentlemen present who are more practically acquainted with the matter than I am, but I would venture to draw the attention of the Commission to a map of the Hutt County. It will be seen by a reference to that map that there are three alternative lines, which were under consideration at the time this matter was decided. One line was by way of Porirua Harbour, another by way of Belniont, and the third is the line which we advocate. A reference to the map will show that the line partially adopted by way of Porirua goes through no Crown land until it gets to the West Coast; the second line, by way of Belmont, touches upon Crown land : but the Mungaroa-Waikanae line goes entirely through Crown land. Along this proposed line of railway there is a road laid out (of which about 12 miles are made) along the valley, the frontages to which have been, more or less, sold. With that exception the whole of the line goes through Crown land. Ido not know that I need do more than call the attention of the Commission to these few general facts. There are gentlemen connected with the deputation who will be able, I believe, with regard to distances and other things, to give more valuable and exact information. I may simply state, with regard to my own position, that two or three days ago I received a note from Mr. Cruickshank asking me to be here to-day, and lam here in fulfilment of a promise to do so. In the former days I took a good deal of interest in this matter. I communicated with a former Government very strongly in regard to it, and I believe they entirely acquiesced in my views with regard to the Hutt-Waikanae line. Suddenly, however, I found that line had been abandoned, and I have not since felt it my duty to take such an active part in promoting it; but now, having been asked by my fellowsettlers —persons with whom I have been officially connected—l could not do otherwise than join theru jn bringing the matter before you.
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3400. Mr. Mason, M.H.R. : I may state that the Hutt County Council has made a road for a considerable distance along where the proposed line would be, or, at least, so near it as to enable a better survey to be made than has yet been made. Some time ago Mr. Wincke, who was not then in good health, made a hurried survey of the line, and I believe it was not approved by the Government, as the settlers hoped it would have been. The reason of this was, I believe, that the time occupied in the survey was too short, and that the difficulties Mr. Wincke had to encounter, it being winter-time, made it impossible for him to ascertain where the best line was. If a survey had been made at a later period, and that gentleman had had more time, the settlers of the district are confident that a much better and less expensive line could have been found than that which he proposed. There are a number of gentlemen present who no doubt will be able to give all the information that may be required as to the actual locality, and also with respect to distances, and they will be able to bear out what Sir "William Fitzherbert has said. So far as I know, he has stated the facts correctly. The gentlemen who will be called will be able to bear out my own assertion, that the making of this line would be less expensive, because it would be so much shorter, than any other line proposed to the West Coast; and, besides, the road that is at present being constructed, and to which reference has been made, would act as a kind of feeder to the line. Nearly all the land through which the road is being made has been sold. I might add, that the survey could be made more easily and better now than it could have been at any previous time. Mr. 11. Jackson sworn and examined. 3401. I wish to state that during my tenure of office as Chief Surveyor of this province, I had for several years a party of surveyors employed in exploring the country through which the proposed Hutt"Waikanae Eailway would pass, and I also had a trigonometrical survey of the country made. Prom the reports of the surveyors so employed I had an ample opportunity of judging of the capabilities of the country for the line which is proposed. I myself have been over the country, although not absolutely over the proposed line j but I had a view of the country for both sides ; and my own observations, combined with the reports of the surveyors, convinced me that a very good practicable line of railway could be made from the Upper Hutt to Waikanae. I may state what the advantages of the line are. The average grade throughout would probably not exceed lin4oup to the saddle. Prom the reports of the Government surveyors who have laid out, or, rather, surveyed that line, that is proved to be the case ; but from want of time, and other reasons which I cannot mention just now, they did not continue the survey beyond the saddle, and therefore that part of the country has not yet been sufficiently explored. But I place trust in the reports I had from my surveyors —and they uniformly reported that a good line of railway could be got on the other side —in preference to any reports made by the railway engineers, for this reason, that the latter have not sufficiently examined the proposed line. The distance to be constructed by the line from Kaiwarra to Waikanae would be 43 miles, or thereabout; whereas, if the line were constructed from the Upper Hutt to Waikanae it would be about 20 miles shorter, thereby effecting a saving of 20 miles of construction, at an expenditure of probably £8,000 per mile. In addition to that I may say the latter line would pass through valuable timbered land throughout its whole length. The land on both sides the road now constructed has been readily bought up. On the other side of the saddle there are, in my opinion, 150,000 acres of really good timbered land, which only requires opening out to sell readily. Not only is there a large extent of land on the other side, but the lands not already sold on this side require good, proper road-access. A very large extent of country —varying I should say, from 50,000 to 100,000 acres —would then also be easily disposed of. It would have been disposed of long ago had there been proper road-access to it. I had several conversations with Mr. Wincke, the engineer who was emplo3red by the Government in exploring this line of railway, and he always told me that there would be no difficulty whatever in carrying the line through. He was satisfied that, so far as this side of the saddle was concerned, the grade would not be more than lin 40. I recollect questioning him particularly upon the line on the other side of the saddle, and he said that, owing to the continually rainy weather that occurred during the time he was occupied in surveying the line, he had not a sufficient opportunity of thoroughly exploring the country; but that, so far as he had been able to do so, he was convinced that a really practicable line could be obtained. I can also state that, iudging from the report of Mr. Wincke, and from that of Mr. Knorpp, who was expressly sent out by the Government to accompany Mr. Wincke during the survey, the cost of that line would not exceed £8,000 per mile. I think these are generally the points upon which. I may be called upon to give evidence ; but I may add that a very good, serviceable road might be constructed, and would be of the greatest benefit to the West Coast traffic to Wellington. 3402. The Chairman.'] Are you aware whether Mr. Wincke made a report to the Government in reference to the line you are advocating ? —I believe he did. 3403. Do you know the nature of that report? —No. I never saw the report: I only judge by what he told me himself in the course of conversation. 3404. Can you give the Commission an idea of the quantity of Crown land which would be opened up between the Upper Hutt and Waikanae, and which would be served by this line ?—I have stated that on the other side I think there would be from 100,000 to 150,000 acres. I admit that most of it is Native land just now. I consider it to be a very superior quality of land. Again, on this side of the saddle there must be some 50,000 acres or so that only requires road-access to render it available for sale. 3405. Is much of the country open land, or is it mostly bush-land ? —lt is all bush-land ; but on the other side of the saddle there is some very valuable timber. 3406. Is the land on this side chiefly Crown land ?—lt is nearly all Crown land except the sections abutting on the road, three parts of which, I think, have been sold. 3407. Mr. Olark.~\ What is the difference in distance between Poxton and Wellington so far aa the respective routes are concerned —that is, the Porirua route and the one you propose ?—I could not, from memory, tell the distance, but I know 20 miles of construction would be saved by construct" ing the Hutt-Waikanae line.
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3408. I wish to know the difference in distance between the two from the point of junction ? —The line by way of Waikanae would be shorter, but I cannot say positively how much shorter. The line from the Upper Hutt would be shorter in actual distance : that is, from Wellington through the Hutt to Foxton would be a shorter line than a line over the Paikakariki Hill. 3109. Mr. Wright.~\ Can you give us the date of Mr. Wincke's report ?—I cannot. It was about two years ago, I think. 3410. Have you any knowledge as to why he was stopped before he made a complete survey?— I cannot possibly slate the reason. He received orders from the Government to proceed upon the other line before he had time to thoroughly examine the practicability of pushing the railway through the Hutt-Waikanae route. He told me positively that he had not time to examine thoroughly or to explore the country for the purpose of definitely saying whether the line of railway should go by that route in preference to the other. I believe he was ordered by the Government to come away. 3411. From your knowledge of the country, do you think a line of railway from the Upper Hutt in the direction of Waikanae or Otaki would be more cosily than that by way of Porirua and Paikakariki ? —I go principally by the reports of Mr. Wincke and Mr. Knorpp, and say that the cost of such a line would not exceed £8,000 per mile throughout, with a possible tunnel. 3412. I wish to know whether, from your own knowledge of the country, the one route is more rugged or more impracticable than the other?—l should say there is about six of one and half a dozen of the other. There is not much to choose between them: the only difference is that one line passes through a settled country. As to the actual cost, I have no hesitation in saying that, taking into account the 20 miles already constructed, the Hutt-Waikanae line would be far the cheapest. 3413. Mr. Clark.'] You mentioned that the character of the land was much the same on either route. I understand that there would be less of that rough ground on the Hutt-Waikanae line than on the line by Porirua?—l can speak positively so far as the distance from the Upper Hutt to the saddle is concerned; from the saddle on the other side I cannot speak so positively. lam speaking from what Mr. Wincke told me. He partially surveyed the line: he had not time to explore it thoroughly. 34 L4. Mr. Wright.] Is Mr. Wincke here now ? —No ; he is dead. For the first 15 or 20 miles lam sure the country is no rougher than that on the present line by way of Porirua. My evidence would tend principally to show the Commissioners the necessity of exploring the Hutt-Waikanae line further before operations are proceeded with on the Porirua side, or prior to any further expense being incurred. Mr. Daniel Climie sworn and examined. 3415. I may state that I have visited that part of the country between the Upper Hutt and Waikanae. I looked up one o£ the valleys leading towards Otaki, and it occurred to me that a more direct and better line might be got that way than by turning back by way of Waikanae. In a thick bushcountry like the one in question it would take a considerable time to examine it so as to speak with any certainty as to which route would really be the best, but, from the time that I had to go over it, it certainly appeared to me that the best line that could be got would bo by going more in the direction of Otaki than turning back by way of Waikanae. From some observations and heights I took in going along, and from observations I had made when I was in the district before, I would not have any hesitation in undertaking to get a route for a railway there with no gradient steeper than lin 50. I am not sure of the gradients on the Otaki side, as it is a very thick bush. To get a gradient of lin 50 would of course increase the length of the tunnel which must at any rate be made through the saddle. There would be two other short tunnels required. 3416. The Chairman.'] Can you give approximately the length of the tunnel through the saddle ?— You must not reckon upon a tunnel less than a mile in length. 3417. In addition to the tunnel, would there be much heavy cutting required?—No, it is mostly sidling ground. With the exception of the tunnels, it is a comparatively easy district through which to make a railway. 3418. Can you give the Commission an approximate estimate of the cost per mile ? —I think, including the tunnels, the cost would not be more than £8,500 per mile, taking the present price of rails. Of course that is only an approximate estimate, as I have not taken levels to make a proper estimate, or to obtain any data to calculate from. 3419. Mr. Clark.] Where would the other two tunnels be on this side of the saddle ? —They would be on the Hutt side. It struck me that it would be cheaper to make two short tunnels rather than go round the sharp curves. 3420. Can you state the altitude of the saddle, after deducting what may be reduced by the tunnel ?—I could not say as to the level of the rails in the tunnel. I believe the saddle is about 1,600 feet above the level of the sea: that is what I was told in the district. It would not matter, so far as the cost of the tunnel is concerned, how much the rails were below the summit of the saddle. 3421. What is the approximate distance between the saddle and the low ground near Otaki ?— To get down at a grade of 1 in 50 the line would require to run along the spur towards Mr. Wallace's house, a distance of from 10 to 11 miles. 3422. And, taking the proposed Wellington and Foxton line at Otaki, would that increase oi* diminish the difference between the proposed line and that which you advocate ? —From the way that I propose to take it, I believe the distance would be less from Otaki round by way of the Hutt, than going by way of Porirua. According to the published map it is certainly shorter to go round by way of the Upper Hutt than by way of Porirua. 3423. And taking it by Otaki ?—lt will still be shorter, because it cuts off' a long elbow. 31<24. Then, making Otaki the point of juuetion, the Hutt and Otaki line would serve nearly the whole of the flat land between Paikakariki and Foxton?—Yes. Another advantage would be that the line would be further inland, and would have two sides to it, which is always an advantage. 3425. Mr. Wright.] Has any survey been made which justifies you in stating that the tunnel would not be more than a mile in length?—No correct survey; but I believe I have had as much experience in laying oft' new lines of railway as any one living, and I can form a good idea both as to the gradients and the length of the tunnel. 24—E. 3.
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3426. "What do you estimate would be the cost of a tunnel a mile long ? —lt would cost froiii £50,000 to £00,000. The cost would of course depend greatly upon the strata it would have to go through. 3427. What would be the cost under the most favourable circumstances ? —lf you got into some middling solid rock under the surface, the cost might be considerably reduced. 3428. What would you put down as the minimum cost of the tunnel under the most favourable circumstances you could anticipate ?—Without casing it would not cost more than £20 per lineal yard. 3429. What is the character of the bush through that country. Is it birch timber? —I am not very well acquainted with Xew Zealand timber. There appeared to be some very fine large trees. 3430. Is it of the same quality as the bush on the eastern side of the Hutt Valley ? —lt seemed to me to be similar timber. The trees were very large. There is rimu, matai, and totara timber. There is certainly timber enough to provide a large traffic for the railway for many years to come. 3431. Are you acquainted with the flat country between Paikakariki and Ot.aki ? —I have been along it several times. I have been some distance inland. It appears to me to be swampy ground and sandhills. I am now speaking of the country from the sea to the bottom of the ranges. Mr. Field informed me that such was the character of the land, and he had been a surveyor there for many years, and knew the district well. Addendum. —Since giving my evidence before the Commission on the 23rd instant, I have had an opportunity of examining some maps of the district between the Upper Hutt and a point north-east of Otaki, and find the distance to be, as near as can be ascertained from such maps, about 32 miles, and from Wellington via Porirua to the same point about 55 miles. Thus, by adopting the Upper Hutt route to the West Coast a saving of 23 miles is effected, thereby lessening the first cost (taking my approximate estimate of each route at £8,500 per mile) by £195,500. —D. C—Wellington, 30th June, 1880. Mr. W. A. Fitzhereert sworn and examined. 3432. I can give the Commission very little extra information. I can simply corroborate the evidence given by Mr. Jackson and Mr. Climie. I was employed by the late Provincial Government to explore that line in company with Mr. John Barton and Mr. Cruiekshank, who are both present to-day. We reported upon the line as a good, practicable road-line. I was then employed to lay off the road, which I did. About 9 miles of the road have already been constructed for a cart-road, out of the grant of £5,000 made by the Provincial Government, and £3,500 from the General Government. Last year the Government gave a further grant of £4,500, to be expended on the bridging of two rivers, the Hutt and Akatarawa. These bridges are now in course of construction, and will be completed in about six months or so. There are about 9 miles of road constructed as a cart-road, and about 3 miles of a bridle-track, which is now in course of construction. This will take us to the saddle. Beyond that nothing has been done, as the land is in the hands of the Natives ; but from observations which we took when we explored the line, I should say there are three saddles : one is about 1,400 feet above the level of the sea, the second is about 1,000 feet, and the other is 1,100 feet. We are now making for the lowest saddle with the road. With respect to the character of the country, I consider it is very good for bush-country. The greater portion of it is very suitable for settlement. There would be an immense quantity of timber taken from this valley, which would be a feeder to the present line of railway at the Upper Hutt. If this line was continued to Waikanae you could get some very valuable totara timber, growing on the fiat between Waikanae and Otaki. With respect to the gradients for the railway, I can simply speak from hearsay and from reports that have been furnished by the Government engineers. 3433. The Chairman.] You have heard the evidence given by Mr. Jackson as to the nature of the works, and as to the probable cost: do you generally agree with the statement he has made ? —I have not gone into the question of cost. I was simply called upon to lay out a road, and not a railway. The steepest gradient on the present road is 1 in 20 throughout the whole of it, until you come within a mile and a half or two miles of the saddle, and then it varies tip to about 1 in 15. 3434. Is that to the top of the saddle ? —Yes. 3435. Mr. Wright.'] Do you know what induced the Government to abandon the survey by this route ? —Simply that the engineer employed was limited as to time. He told me himself that he could not possibly make a correct survey of the three lines—viz., Waikanae, Kaiwarra, and Belmont —in the time given to him ; that he had to send in a report before the House rose, so that it might be laid before the Assembly. 3436. Was it not owing to the fact that they had ascertained the height of the saddle by this route to be much greater than by way of Paikakariki ?—I cannot say. 3437. What is the total length of the road which you have made to the saddle ?—About 12 miles. 3438. And the average grade ? —The steepest grade is lin 15. The average grade would be about lin 30. Some of the country is quite level. 3439. What would be the total rise at an average grade of 1 in 30 for a distance of 12 miles ?— It would be 176 feet in the mile, or 2,112 feet. In portions of the road we have to fall. We have then to rise again to get over the spurs. We have taken the shortest possible route for the road. Mr. John Barton sworn and examined. 3440. Between the years 1872 and 1874 I was over this country for pleasure and professionally, During that time I was employed by the Provincial Government in looking out for a better line of road to the West Coast, so as to avoid the Paikakariki Hill. In carrying out the exploration I went through the Hutt-Waikanae line to the back of Paikakariki, and took compass and aneroid observations, so that I had what I may call the run of the country at my fingers' ends. I also accompanied Mr. Fitzherbert there to inspect the Hutt-Waikanae line, that being considered the best line to adopt. Upon his report the Provincial Government decided to lay it out as a road. I forget the height of the Hutt saddle, but I think the evidence given in regard to it is correct. 3441. The Chairman.'] Generally, you confirm the evidence given by Mr. Climie, Mr. Fitzherbert, and Mr. Jackson P—JTes.
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3442. Mr. Wright.] Do you know the height of the saddle on the Wellington-Foxton line, by Paikakariki ? —I am not certain of the height. 8413. What is your impression as to the height ? —lt is about 700 feet. I have nothing more than my recollection to trust to. 314-1. Is it 700 feet lower than by the Hutt-Waikanae route ?—Yes. Between Wellington and Paikakariki we have two hills to ascend, and on the Hutt-Waikanae wo have only one —that is the dividing range between the two watersheds. As far as we can make out from the map, and the time we took to travel, we supposed the distance from the Upper Hutt to Waikanae to be about 20 miles. 3415. Is the country more rugged than that by the Porirua route ?—lt is very much the same, except that the Porirua route is cleared, and the other is standing bush. 3445a. The country is equally broken ? —Yes. The deputation withdrew.
Wellington, Tiiuesday, 24tii June, 1880. Mr. Thomas Mackay, Agent for the Crown for the Westland and Nelson Coal Fields, sworn and examined. 3446. The Chairman."] The Commission want to arrive at the position between the lessees or owners of the Kawakawa coal field and the Government as regards the Kawakawa Railway ?—The whole of it is contained first in a memorandum of agreement, which is recited in "The Immigration and Public Works Act, 1875," sections 19 to 22 and their preamble, headed "Kawakawa Railway." Those sections detail the position of the Company with the Government, and the obligation of the Government to complete the railway to a place in the Bay of Islands. The Government have paid the Company, under the provisions of the 20th clause of the Act referred to, £6,020. The agreement is as follows : — Memorandum of agreement made the sixteenth day of March, in tlie year one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, between His Honor the Superintendent of the Province of Auckland of the one part, and the Bay of Islands Coat Company (Limited) of the other part, witnesseth as follows : — 1. The Superintendent will grant and the Company will take a mining lease of a certain portion of land situated in the Bay of Islands, and being that part of the Kuapekapeka Block as delineated by the plan hereunto annexed ; and also a lease of the railway about to be constructed from the said land to a certain point already fixed on in the Harbour of the Bay of Islands. 2. The term of the lease shall be ninety-nine years, to commence from the time the railway, fit for traffic, shall be handed over to the Company. 3. A fixed rent, to be reserved, equal to six per cent, per annum on the amount which shall be expended on tho construction of the railway, not exceeding forty thousand pounds, shall be made p iyable half-yearly. 4. A royalty of fourpenee per ton on all coal, and one penny per ton on all slack, which shall be sold or taken away for sale from any mines on the demised land shall be reserved and made payable quarterly. 5. The rent to commence and be payable from the expiration of two years from the d;iy on which the railway is handed over to the Company under the lease, or from such other day as may be hereafter agived on between the Superintendent and the Company; and the royalty to commence and be payable from the day on which the Company is put in possession of the railway fit for traffic. 6. The Company shall produce from the said mines and pay royalty upon not less than forty thousand tons of coal for the first year, not less than fifty thousand tons for the second year, not less than sixty thousand for the third year, and not less than seventy thousand for every subsequent year during the continuance of the lease. 7. The Company may sell their coal for such price per ton as they may think fit, provided that the price per ton for coal delivered on board vessels at the wharf to be constructed as the terminus of the railway shall not exceed fourteen shillings per ton. 8. The Company shall be bound to carry passengers and cargo on the railway at reasonable charges, to be charged and fixed on by the Superintendent and the Company. 9. The lease shall contain all proper covenants and provisoes on the part of the Company for keeping the railway and all works, plant, and rolling-stock connected therewith in good repair and efficient working order, and so delivering the same up at the termination of the lease, —■ 10. The lease shall also contain clauses in the usual form introduced into mining leases, —■ (1.) For securing the payment of the rent; (2.) For enabling some person, on the part of the lessor, from time to time to enter and examine all mines on the demised land ; (3.) For securing the regular, proper, and efficient mining and working of the minerals ; (4.) For making void the lease on breach of the stipulations on the part of the lessee therein contained ; (5.) For delivering up the demised premises in good tenantable repair j (6.) For enabling the lessee to surrender the lease. 11. The sum of one thousand seven hundred and fifty pounds, agreed on as the amount of royalty which shall be paid by the Company in respect of the coal taken before the first day of January, one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, from a portion of the land hereinbefore agreed to be demised, and a royalty after the rate aforesaid from the first day of January, one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, till the railway shall be handed over to the Company as aforesaid, shall be paid by the Company out of future profits; and for that purpose twenty-five per cent, of the profits made by the Company shall be paid over to the Superintendent half-yearly till the sum agreed as aforesaid, together with the royalty to accrue before the railway is handed over, shall be fully paid. 12. The Superintendent not at present possessing powers sufficient to enable him to carry this agreement into effect, this agreement is made subject to the necessary powers being obtained from the General Assembly, and the Superintendent undertakes to use his best endeavours in the next session to obtain an Act authorizing him to execute a lease in conformity with this agreement. In witness whereof the Superintendent of the Province of Auckland has hereunto set his hand and seal of office, and the Bay of Islands Coal Company (Limited) have hereunto affixed their common seal, the day and year first above written. Signed and sealed by the Superintendent, Thomas B. Gillies, Superintendent of the Province of Auckland. In the presence of Fbancis Chas. Leggett, Clerk to Superintendent. The common seal of the Bay of Islands Coal Company (Limited) was hereunto affixed at a meeting of the Board of Directors of the said Company held this sixteenth day of March, one thousand eight hundred and seventy-two, in the presence of G. B. Owen, C. J. Stone, T. Russell, W. C. Wilson, J. Logan Campbeli, Directors,
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3447. Colonel Pearce.] Is the terminus of the railway referred to in that agreement the same as is now proposed by the Public Works Department ? —'Yes. 3418. Mr. Clark.] Under what arrangement was that portion of the line from the mine to what is known as the Derrick handed over to the Company ? —Under section 21 of the Act of 1875, and the conditions referred to in the accounts now submitted, under which the Company pay rent for that portion of the line. 3449. Has the rent that they were to pay for the past up to the beginning of the present year been settled under Judge Gillies's award? —Tes. 3450. What is the position at the present time ? "What rent are they paying or liable to pay ?— At the rate of £021 2s. 4d., being 6 per cent, on £10,352, the cost of the part of the line already opened. They are also liable to pay the royalty provided in the lease. They have been fulfilling the conditions of the back royalty, and there is an account of the accruing royalty against them. There is no dispute regarding these two points between the Government and the Company. 3451. Colonel Pearce.~) In the agreement was there any time fixed in which the Government should comj)lete the line to deep water?—No. 3452. But, in your interpretation of the agreement, is the Government bound to complete the line within a reasonable time ? —Decidedly. It is to be regretted that it has not been done before, because it would be a great advantage from a colonial point of view. 31<53. I notice that in the agreement the Government is not supposed to expend more than £40,000 on the railways: how does that clause in the agreement coincide with the statement that the Government are bound to complete the line to deep water ? —That was supposed to be the cost at the time of entering into the agreement in 1872. The sum was afterwards increased to £1-2,500 ; but even that increased amount will not by any means cover the cost of the railway down to deep water. The difference between £42,500 and what it will ultimately cost must be a matter of arrangement between the Government and the Company. 3454. If, instead of £42,000, the railway costs £100,000, is the Company bound to pay 6 per cent, on the extra cost ?—No ; not under the agreement. 3455. Is their liability only 6 per cent, on a sum not exceeding £42,500? —Yes. 3456. Was £42,500 supposed to include the cost of the wharf as well ? —I think not. I have never been able to see details of the estimate of £42,500. 3457. Would the Company be liable for a rent on the wharf in addition to interest on the cost of the railway ? —I think so. 3458. Is there a clause to that effect in the agreement ?—No. 3459. Then how could you make them liable ? —I do not think it is mentioned in the agreement that the Government are to give them rolling-stock or to construct the wharf. 3460. Is that still a matter for arrangement in the future ? —I consider that it is. 3401. 31r. Wright] If the Government expend more than £12,500 in carrying this railway to deep water, would the Company be liable to pay (i per cent, on the expenditure ?—I do not think they would. I think it is a condition that the Government should expend £42,500, and that they should bring the railway to deep water. 3402. And the Company are only bound to pay interest on £42,500, although the work may cost double that? —Yes. 3463. Does not that appear to you to be a very loose agreement?—l think it is a loose agreement. I may state that I am now engaged in drafting the heads of a fresh agreement —in fact, remodelling the whole question, so as to put it on a more satisfactory basis. 3464. Do you know whether the interest for which the Company are liable under Judge Gillies's award has been paid ? —Not yet. The accounts have only been agreed to by the Company within the last month or two, and I have not yet completed my report upon (he subject. 3465. So that, in point of fact, up to the present time the Company have paid no interest whatever ? —They have not. 3466. The Chairman.] Have they paid up the royalty ?—They have paid up the back royalties, in accordance with the agreement. 3467. Mr. Clark.] "Was any arrangement made, when handing over the section now working, respecting the rolling-stock, or is the rolling-stock the property of the Government ? —lt is the property of the Government, and will be leased to the Company. The new arrangement with the Company will be based upon the award of Judge Gillies involving all accounts between the Government and the Company, and the future relations of the Company with the Government. Five issues were submitted to Judge Gillies. The four first were in reference to the question of account and interest between the Government and the Company, and I drew up the fifth one also, in agreement with the Company, deeming it advisable to get his opinion thereon. The two latter are as follows: — Fifth Issue.—Having regard to the position of the Company under clauses 1 and 2 of the agreement of March, 1872, as to the period of the lease of the railway, a further decision is sought as to the advisability whether, pending the final completion of the railway to the deep water referred to, instead of leases, agreements having the effect, of provisional leases for the mine and railway (so far as the latter is completed and accepted by the Company) respectively should be made with the Company, setting forth in the one the royalties, and the terms on which they are to be paid, on the mine, and the other necessary conditions, and in the other the terms on which rent is to be payable on the railway, and also the other necessary conditions under the agreement of 1872 and the Act of 1875 ; and, when the railway in question is finally completed to the deep water, and handed over to the Company fit for traffic, then formal leases from such time for the tei'm of ninety-nine years of both the mine and the railway respectively, to bo executed to the Company in conformity with the terms of the agreement of 1872 and provisions of the Act of 1875 or any other Act which may be deemed necessary to give effect to any revision or modification of the terms of the said agreement or Act. —3?. M. BeookheljD, Crown Solicitor ; Tnos. Buddle, Solicitor for the Company. Fifth Issue. —On this issue I understand a recommendation only, not a determination, is ashed. I think it would be in the interests of both parties, in offler to prevent future disputes and further complications with future Governments, to have agreements having the effect of provisional leases for the mine and portion of railway completed, at once prepared and executed, setting forth the rental on the railway payable in accordance with this award, and fixing definitely the royalties payable, as well as containing tho various stipulations in detail which are only indicated in the agreement. These mining details will be more easily settled now than after further delays and, possibly, further disputes. The permanent ninety-nine years' lease from the completion of the railway could thus at once be executed without delay immediately on the completion of the remainder of the railway. —Thomas B. Giimes. —Auckland, 25th February, 1880.
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This original agreement and the Act of 1875 will have to be altered considerably in the present position between the Government and the Company. 34-68. Then you consider that a fair interpretation of the agreement would be, that the Company should pay rent upon the line when completed, not only upon ihe £10,000 mentioned in the agreement, but also upon the rolling-stock, buildings, and whatever wharfage accommodation is provided?—Yes. It was for no other object than for the purposes of the Company that this work was constructed. 3409. Mr. Wright.] Do I understand you to say in reference to the last question that the Company should pay 6 per cent, upon the total expenditure by the Government for the railway, wharf, and rolling-stock ? —Yes. 3470. Mr. Clark.~\ Altogether irrespective of the specific sum mentioned in the original agreement, and that the rent was not to exceed interest on a sum not exceeding £40,000 ?—Yes—that is to say, interest on £42,500, but the actual expenditure might be £25,000 more. 3471. Colonel Pearee.~\ What power has Government to secure this extra rental which is involved in the extra expense ? —The agreement in the first instance was an incomplete one, and, in fact, the Company would have to provide rolling-stock for themselves and have to provide for the wharf outside the agreement. If the Government provide these things I should say that the Government should receive rent for them. 3472. That is admitted; but, with reference to the extra cost on earthworks and permanent way on the ordinary line, what power have the Government to charge the further percentage of 6 per cent, on that extra cost ? —I do not mean to say that they have any power just now; but the Government would be wise to seek such power under a fresh agreement or Acb. I intend to advise the Government to do so. 3473. Mr. Wright."] Looking to the present unsatisfactory condition of the arrangement between the Company and the Government, do you not think that a more prudent course would be for the Government to abstain from any further expenditure until the Company has executed a new lease upon an equitable basis? —That is a question that would require a good deal of consideration before being answered. 3474. The Government having the expenditure under their control, would it not be the safest course for them to adopt? —If the Company were antagonistic it would be; but I think the Company are quite ready to meet the Government. 3475. Then, if they are quite ready to meet the Government, there should be no delay whatever in drawing up and executing the new agreement? —What I am trying to get prepared is a document embodying the arrangement that was made under Judge Gillies's award, as well as the conduct of the matter in future under a new agreement, and to get a clause to that effect into a fresh Act. 3476. Howr long is that likely to take ? —A few days. 3477. Colonel Pearce.~] Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not the Kawakawa Mine is one likely to last for many years ? —Yes, it is from all appearances. 3478. Are you an expert in the matter? —To some extent I am. 3479. Mr. Clark.] Are you aware whether borings have been made to test the coal at some distance from the present workings ?—Yes. 3480. Mr. Wriyht.] Is there any distinct understanding as to the quantity of rolling-stock to be supplied to the Company by the Government? —No. 3481. Or with reference to further supplies from time to time, in addition to what they already have ? —That will depend upon when the Government finish the extension of the line. The present rolling-stock will be able to do a great deal of the work when the line is completed. 3482. Is it one of the conditions of the agreement that the Government shall supply rollingstock ? —I do not think there is a condition to supply any rolling-stock. 3483. The reason why I ask is this: There is a covenant on the part of the Company to keep the plant and rolling-stock in good repair, and to deliver the same up on the termination of the lease of ninety-nine years ?—I did not understand that the £42,500 extended to more than the construction of the railway. 3484. Has the question been raised by the Company, or has any question been raised by the Government as to their right to demand rolling-stock ? —Not that I am aware of.
"Wellington, Monday, sth July, 1880. Mr. "William Conyehs sworn and examined. 3485. The €havrman."\ You are Commissioner of the Middle Island Railways?—Yes. 3486. Mr. Wriqlit.~\ Can you infirm the Commission what is the cost of advertising the timetables in all the newspapers of the Middle Island ? —"We pay nothing —that is, as far aa I am aware. We did at one time pay the Otago Daily Times £120 per annum. At present we pay nothing for timetables. They publish them free, and we give each newspaper office a free railway-pass over the whole of the Middle Island railways in lieu of the advertising. 3487. Is that pass considered equivalent for advertising the time-tables?—They seem to consider it as such : they make no further claim. I should like to say that the time-tables are not published in all the papers, but only in some. We give a free pass to each paper published weekly or more frequently. That, of course, is a Ministerial order ;it does not come within my province. 318S. Can you state the rate of speed for which the New Zealand railways were designed by Mr. Carruthers ?—Only from hearsay. I mean that I have had no direct instructions from Mr. Carruthers as to the rate of speed we should run. 3469. What is your knowledge from hearsay ?—That the railways were built—that is, the 40-lb. rail portion—for a maximum speed of 17 or 18 miles an hour. 3490. Then what would be the average speed ? —About 15 miles an hour—that is, for mixed trains.
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3491. What was the rate of speed at which the express trains between Christchurch and Dunedin were running when limited to ten hours for the journey ? —They never were limited to ten hours. The time was, I think, ten hours and three-quarters. On referring to my report of 10th July, 1879, I find the time was ten hours and fifty-five minutes. 3-192. AVhat average rate of speed would that give on the journey ?—A running-speed of about 24 miles per hour. 3492a. What would be the maximum speed after making due allowance for stoppages? —Well, it is a difficult thing to say, because we perhaps lose a few minutes at places, and afterwards make it up. I have seen the train running at the rate of 30 miles an hour. 3493. Deducting the numerous stoppages, would not the average running amount to about 30 miles an hour ?—I do not think so. About 24 miles, according to careful calculation. 3494. Had any material alteration been made in the line between Christchurch and Dunedin from the time of its opening up to the time of putting.on the express trains?—The express trains were put on when it was first opened through. 3495. And the line was in no way strengthened beyond the original design ? —Oh, yes! 3496. In what sections ? —Large portions were laid with heavy rails—from Palmerston to Dunedin entirely so ; and from Christchurch to Selwyn, or a little south of Selwyn, was laid with heavy rails. 3497. Then, from Selwyn to Palmerston the road remained as originally constructed ? —No : there were 2 miles south of Oamaru laid with 53-lb. steel rails, and a few miles between Hill Grove and Palmerston. And the line was originally laid with sleepers 7 inches broad; but all renewals have been with sleepers 8 inches broad, of which a very large portion have been renewed —very many thousands. The new sleepers increase the surface-bearing, and decrease the span of the rails slightly between sleeper and sleeper. 3498. This alteration of the sleepers is consequent on the damage to the road, and not by way of preparation for the express trains?—Well, I cannot agree to that. It is'not the damage done to the road by trains; it is in consequence of the rottenness of the Oregon sleepers used in the construction. 3499. You stated just now that the lines that were constructed with 40-lb. rails were intended for a maximum speed of l7 or 18 miles ? —Tes. 3500. Then what did you mean when, in your report of 1878, you stated, " It should be borne in mind that these railways were built, and all plant, stock, &c, ordered, for a slow speed; 15 miles per hour being considered the maximum " ? —I admit that is a difference of 2 miles per hour. 3501. Do you think that running trains at a higher speed over the line than that for which it was constructed is productive of waste? —To some extent, undoubtedly —it increases the working expenditure. 3502. And to some extent increases the risk ? —No, I will not admit that—not the speed at which we have run. 3503. Not travelling at a speed of 30 miles over a road constructed for a maximum speed of 15 miles? —I must explain that, when the railways were constructed, stock specially fitted for them was imported to work over them. The engines working our express trains were specially built for working faster trains, with large wheels and an increased number of bearing-points. The engines originally imported had wheels of 3-feet diameter ; the engines imported for the express trains have wheels of 4-feet diameter, the engine and tender being carried on sixteen wheels. 3501. A larger wheel means a higher centre of gravity for the engine?—A little. The engines first imported had saddle-tanks —that is, the water for use in the boiler was carried on the top. The higher-speed engines were provided with tenders, which would more than compensate for the larger wheels raising the centre of gravity. 3505. The tender-engines, with 3-feet wheels, would have a lower centre of gravity than engines with 4-feet wheels ?—True. 3500. And the engines with 4-feet wheels were only imported to meet a. higher speed ? —Yes. The American engines were imported by Mr. Carruthers to meet a higher speed. 3507. Do you consider that the increase in the speed from 15 miles to 30 miles an hour has had anything to do with the increased wear and tear of rails ? —Yes, undoubtedly. High speed in all cases means more expense. 3508. Can you say what terms have been arranged for working the liakaia and Methven branch railway ? —Nothing definite is settled. 3509. How long is it since the line was opened ?—A few months. 3510. How long do you propose working that line before coming to some definite arrangement ? —The matter is in the hands of the Minister for Public Works. 3511. Has any charge been made to the Methven Railway Company for the use of the Government wagons?—We propose to charge Id. per loaded wagon per mile. No settlement has yet been made, pending final agreement. 3512. Well, that was part of an agreement? —Of course there is a temporary agreement now. There is no formal deed or final agreement. The whole matter has been submitted to the Minister, and it is waiting his approval. The Company pay all expenses in the shape of wages for the traffic department, locomotive-working, and maintenance of way. 3513. The locomotives being their own ? —Yes. We find a driver and fuel. 3514. Can you state the basis of the arrangement with the Dunedin Wagon Company for supplying wagons to the Government ?—There is no arrangement. 3515. Are you not running wagons belonging to the Dunedin Wagon Company ? —Yes ; we are using them now, but do not pay for them. There is no arrangement except that we allow coal companies using them a rebate of id. per ton per mile. That is gazetted in the tariff. If any coal company use their own wagons or hired wagons, we carry their coal at Jd. per ton per mile cheaper than we do if carried in Government wagons. 351G. And what is considered a wagon-load ? —Five tons. We allow ljd. per wagon per mil© when loaded.
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3517. And there is no charge for running them back empty? —No. 3518. "What, in your estimate, is the average cost per mile of running the trains over the Middle Island railways ? —Four shillings and sevenpence per train-mile. 3519. That I presume is the average of all the trains? —That is for the nine months ending 31st March last, calculated upon 1,413,339 train-miles run during that period. 3520. That is the average of all the trains run ? —That is the average of all the trains run between Amberlev and Kingston on main line and branches, being a length of 755 miles. 3521. Can you give the average weight of the trains? —No, \Te do not keep it. I could ascertain, approximately. 3522. Is it not given in the returns furnished by the Locomotive Superintendent ?—Approximately, but not the actual weight. The drivers give the number of vehicles in each train, and whether the wagons are loaded or empty, so that an approximation is in that way arrived at. 3523. Can you say what the approximate live weight is in each train? —No, I cannot say positively. 3524. Is it not somewhere about 90 tons? —I do not think so. It is far below that. If it were 90 tons our lines would pay interest on the cost of construction, which they do not. 3525. Can you say what is the average train-load over the heavy grades south of Oamaru that you do take ? —About 36 tons net and G3 tons gross, exclusive of engine. 3526. You divide the management under three distinct heads—traffic, locomotive, and permanent way ? —Yes. 3527. What gentlemen represent the heads of these departments ?—Traffic, four: Mr. Back, Christchurch; Mr. Hanney, Oamaru and Timaru; Mr. Grant, Dunedin; and Mr. Arthur, Invercargill. Locomotive, two : Mr. Smith, Christchurch ; and Mr. Armstrong, Dunedin. Permanent way, one : Mr. Lowe. 3528. Then you have, not three heads, but seven heads ? —Yes, if you put it in that way. We have one head of the permanent way, two of the locomotive department, and four district traffic managers. 3529. Could not one engineer manage the locomotive department ? —Yes, one could manage it; but his assistants would cost as much as the two now cost. 3530. You would have one responsible head instead of two irresponsible heads?—Yes. There is one responsible head now—that is myself. 3531. I understood that you rather assumed the position of General Manager ? —I am the General Manager practically. 3532. And not specially the head of the locomotive department and the head of the traffic department ? —I beg your pardon; lam the head of all the departments as General Manager. They take all their directions from me. 3533. But you told us a little while since that you had but three departments ? —I have three departments. 3534. Then those departments are without responsible heads—that is, there is no head representing any one department except maintenance ? —Yes. 3535. If you had one Locomotive Superintendent responsible for the safety of the rolling-stock throughout, would it be necessary to pay an assistant the same wages as the chief? —He would want more than one or two assistants to do the work thoroughly over such a length of line. 3536. Have not the present Locomotive Engineers assistants under them ?—ln the way of foremen they have, but not thoroughly trained engineers. 3537. You have one Locomotive Engineer at Christchurch ?—We have. 3538. And one at Dunedin?—We have. 3539. Do you mean to say, if you removed either of those gentlemen, that one assistant could not fill his place under the orders of the other—that he could not discharge his duties under one responsible head ?—You mean that if one of the Locomotive Engineers, as he now stands, was made assistant to the other. 3540. No—was removed entirely ?—Then you must bring another man in his place as au assistant. 3541. He, in the ordinary course, would be an officer at a lower rate of pay ?—Yes ; he would receive something less than the other man. I may state that I have already recommended to the Minister for Public Works that one Locomotive Engineer should be appointed for the whole service. 3542. What inquiry has been made as to the cause of the recent collision at Edendale ?—I have had very full reports ; but I am not satisfied, and have directed that a further inquiry should beheld by three officers of the Eailway Department —one from the locomotive department, one from the traffic department, and one from the maintenance-of-way department. 3543. Will you give the names of those gentlemen ?—Messrs. Lowe, Grant, and Armstrong. They are instructed to inquire and report fully into the whole circumstances. 3541. Have any of the men been suspended ?-—-They are suspended now. 3545. How many ? —Four —the two drivers, the stationmaster, and his porter. 3546. Was any accident to the crane reported to you following on that accident to the engines ? —There was another accident —to the crane: it was reported that it got off the line when running to Invercargill on Sunday morning. 3547. Was the cause of its getting off the line reported to you ? —No. 3548. If it got off the line through the "jib" of the crane being unhooked, who would be responsible for the neglect ? —The man in charge of the train. 3549. The man in charge of the train or the stationmaster of the station from whence the train started ?—-I should practically look to the man in charge of the train. His duty is clearly laid down, to see that the train is in thorough running order before the train starts—that everything is coupled and secure. Both are to blame. 3550. Where did you obtain the information as to the cost of working the Dunedin and Christchurch Stations which you supplied to the Minister for Public Works on the 10th or 11th June ?—i From the Accountant in Christchurch andtho Managers in Dunedin and Christchurch,
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3551. Look at this telegram and tell me if it is a copy of it :— Christchurch, 10th Juno, 1880.—To the Commissioner of Eailways, Dunedin. —Telegram re three months ending 31st March. Passengers booked at Dunedin, 43,925; Christchurch, 54,828. This number includes 9,256 to racecourse on Easter Monday and Tuesday. Wages, as per pay-sheets, certified to by the respective stationmasters : Dunedin, £1,529; Chrietehurch, £1,227.—A. C. Fife. Is this a copy ? —I believe so, as far as I can remember. I know that my reply was based on the Accountant's statement. 3552. Then, can you explain how it was that £1,529, stated to be the cost of the Dunedin Station, was transposed from £1,529 to £900 odd ? —No; I do not remember anything about it. 3553. Did you see the telegram before it was sent from Dunedin? — Yes. I saw it. 3554. And you can obtain a copy of it ? —Tes ; I can obtain a copy of what I sent, from my own office in Dunediu. I will wire for it. [The following are the telegrams I have received: — Dunedin, 7th July, 1880. —W. Conyers, Esq., Eailway Department, Wellington.—The cost of working Dunedin passenger station for three months ending 31st March last was £979 9s. 4d., salaries and wages, but not including guards nor Ocean Beach. Passengers booked, exclusive of Ocean Beach, 45,070. —A. Gkakt. Dunedin, 6th July, 1880.—" Under-Secretary of Lands, Wellington.—Three months ending 31st March. Christchurch passengers booked, 45,072 ; this does not include racecourse bookings. Cost working, wages, £1,227 ; this does not include guards. Dunedin passengers booked, 45,070, not including Ocean Beach traffic. Cost working, wages, £979 ; this does not include guards —the passengers in both cases would take same guard.—W. Conyers." Above is copy of your telegram of 11th June. The information it contains was gathered telegrams from Fife and Back, and from a letter from Grant. You may recollect that you afterwards had reason to believe that Christchurch had been dealt with on a different basis from Dunedin. —C. A. Badham. Christchurch, 12th July, 1880.—W. Conyers, Esq., Government Buildings, Wellington.—Letter from Mr. E. G. Wright, Eailway Commissioner, to Mr. Back has been sent on to me re cost of passenger departments at Christclmrch and Dunedin, three periods to 31st March. Your telegram (copy) attached thereto in reference to Christchurch reads, " Does not include guards." The "not" has got there wrongly. See the following telegram sent you on 11th June : —" I have to state for your information Mr. Grant wires this morning whether the Christchurch wages include guards and brakesmen, and that I have replied, ' Includes guards; brakesmen's duty is done by platform porters when required.'" Your taking Mr. Grant's figures instead of mine for Dunedin is an outcome of our separation, as, if we had been in the same building, I would have been certain, from the nature of the telegram, to have seen it before il was despatched to the hon. Minister. Would you kindly make Mr. Wright aware of this ?—A. W. Fipk. The telegram sent by the Accountant included all pay-sheets signed by the Dunedin stationmaster ; this was corrected by the Dunedin Manager.] 3555. Are you aware of the amount of traffic on the Nelson and Foxhill Section —that is, as represented by its annual value?—l can give you the figures: Eor the twelve months ending 30th June, 1879, we earned £7,111; and for the nine months ending 31st March, 1880, we earned £5,872. 3556. Do you think a traffic of £7,111 requires a Traffic Manager at £425 and stationmasters and porters to the amount of £1,511, being £1,936 per annum ?—The gentleman you call Traffic Manager takes charge of the locomotives and maintenance of way, in addition to discharging the duties of Traffic Manager. He also takes charge of the locomotives and permanent way on the Picton and Blenheim line. 3557. I see on the Picton and Blenheim line, under the head of " Maintenance," one foreman, at 70s. per week : what are his duties ?—To see that the line is maintained. It is he who looks after the workmen on the ground. Of course there must be some head there, or the men would do as they like. 3558. "Well, if a foreman at 70s. per week is sufficient for the 18 miles at Picton, do you not think a foreman at 70s. per week would suffice for 20 miles at Nelson ? —Some one must take charge of the whole, if the lines are to be safely and efficiently maintained. We cannot leave to these foremen entirely the supervision of bridges and other structures. 3559. Do you not think a foreman at 70s. a week quite competent to keep 18 miles of railway in good order and fit for traffic ? —lf the railway was my own property, I would not leave that foreman there in charge. Accounts must be produced; structures must be seen to and carefully examined at frequent intervals. A foreman is a navvy simply, at 70s. a week —a first-class navvy, or what we would term an inspector of permanent way. 3560. Who is responsible for keeping his road in good order ? —Tes ; he is simply responsible for keeping the road in good running order. 3561. How often is it necessary for the Manager from Nelson to visit the section at Picton ?— About once a month. 3562. Did I understand you to say that he pays monthly visits ?— I will not say that. Of course he is responsible, and I gather from his reports that he does visit the section about monthly. 3563. And if he were absent for six months, do you think there would be any serious cause for anxiety ? —Well, I should not like it, certainly. 3564. You say this Traffic Manager at Nelson is also Locomotive Engineer ? —I do —for both sections. 3565. Would not an experienced engine-driver be competent to act as Locomotive Superintendent over three engines; and would not a slight bonus over his ordinary pay be sufficient remuneration for the service?—No. 3566. You have not an engine-driver in your employ whom you could intrust with such a duty ? • —I am not aware of any. Locomotive engine-drivers are not tradesmen —they are not mechanical engineers; and therefore, in my opinion—which is that of a locomotive-engine builder —they are not competent to take charge of such valuable property as locomotive engines. 3567. Do you mean to say that the engine-drivers as a rule are not mechanical engineers ? —I say they are not mechanical engineers—none of them, either in New Zealand or Great Britain. They commence as cleaners, afterwards become firemen, and then drivers. There may be exceptions, but I am not aware of any. [Sea telegram attached : — Christclmrch, Bth July, 1880.—Commissioner of Eailways, Middle Island, Wellington.—Have one man relieving driver who has served his apprenticeship as fitter. —Alisox D. Smith, D.L.S.] 3568. You have no men in your employment as drivers who served their apprenticeship in the fitting-shop and in the construction of locomotives ?—No, not that I am aware of.
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35G9. Can you state what was the number of wagons on the several sections of the Middle Island railways when you took charge as Commissioner?—Ko, I cannot say. 3570. Or the total number? —No, I cannot. [I have ascertained the following: Otago, 31st March, 1876, had 397 wagons ; Christchurch, in May, 1876, had 696 wagons ; Ainberley to Kingston, on 31st March, 1880, possessed 3,990 wagons.] 3571. How long prior to your having charge as Commissioner were you in charge of the entire railways of the Middle Island ? —About a year. 3572. Under what title ? — Superintending Engineer. 3573. Under Mr. Carruthers? —Yes. 3574. The return of the number of wagons I ask for will apply to the time you took charge as Superintending Engineer ?—Yes. [Wagons in use, 31st December, 1876, 1,133.] 3575. Will you supplement that information by the number of wagons now in use ?—Yes. 3576. Will you separate the number of Government wagons from private wagons ? —Yes. [Government wagons, 3,990 ; wagons owned by Wagon Company, 286, in addition to above.] 3577. Were any representations made to you last year as to the want of economy in keeping a Traffic Manager, a goods manager, and stationmaster at the Invercargill Station?—No ; I do not remember that any representation was made to me. 3578. When were they made to you ? —About three or four months ago. 3579. What action did you take in consequence of the representations ?—I first wrote to the Traffic Manager that reductions must be made —that, owing to the falling-oif in business, economy was an absolute necessity, lie submitted proposals as to the abolition of stationmaster at Invercargill, and goods agent, which we have since carried into force. 3580. And no representations were made to you on the subject previous to that?—None. 3581. None whatever? —None whatever. Ido remember one verbal representation having been made to me from the stationmaster at Invercargill that he was prepared to take charge of the goods department in addition to the duties he then had to perform. 3582. About what time did he make that representation?—l cannot say. It was a verbal communication he made to me. 3583. Can you give the date of your own letter to the Traffic Manager ?—I can obtain it. [Since obtained: 31st October, 1879 ; Bth December, 1879. Invercargill, 7th July, 1880. —W. Conyers, Esq., Commissioner of Railways, Wellington.—Dates of letters re reduction of expenditure as follows : 31st October and Bth December, 1879 ; and reduction in train-mileage on 24th October, 1879 s re Bluff Sunday trains on 17th May, 1880.—T. Aetiiue, District Traffic Manager.] 3584. Were you aware that the Sunday trains on the Bluff line were not paying for wear and tear ? —They pay more than working expenses ; and as to whether they are paying for wear and tear or not, that is a matter of opinion. I have submitted the whole question to the Minister for Public Works —the actual cost, the actual receipts —and am awaiting his instructions. 3585. If the total receipts for twelve months were £217, and the total working expenses, accord' ing to the evidence of the General Manager, £208, do you ttink the balance of £9 would repay the . wear and tear for rolling-stock and road for twelve months ? —No, certainly not. 3586. I asked you if you were aware that the Sunday traffic was unprofitable ?—The question as to whether the trains pay or not, as affecting their continuation, is a matter for the Minister to deal with. It is not within my province. For instance, I have branch lines that do not pay working expenses. I would not take upon myself to stop the trains on those branches. I would submit the matter to the Minister for Public Works and let him decide what should be done. I can say further that the Sunday trains on the Bluff line were stopped once, and there was such a public outcry that I was instructed to resume them. 3587. Do you not consider it as part of your duties to ascertain the paying capabilities or otherwise of every train that is run ? —Undoubtedly ; and I try to do that. 3588. But you stated just now that the running of the trains was not within your province ?— No ; the stopping of the trains was not within my province. 3539. Did you make any representation to the Minister for Public Works regarding that Bluff train ? —I have laid the whole thing before him. 3590. At what date ? —Eecently —since the depression, and since peremptory instructions were given that economy must be practised. 3591. But you took no action in the matter until you received these peremptory instructions ? —I was not aware exactly as to how the matter stood, and I had received a previous instruction to run Sunday trains on the Bluff line. 3592. Were you aware that the Invercargill and Kingston train was not a profitable one?—l was. 3593. Did you order any reduction in the number of trains ? —No. 3594. Did you recommend any ? —I did : I recommended that the trains should be reduced to the tri-weekly service which is now in operation. 3595. When did you first make this recommendation ?—When the Traffic Manager reported to me that the service did not pay. 3596. How long since is that ?—About two months ago. 3597. What regulates promotion throughout the service? —In what department? 3598. In any and every department?—Competency. If a vacancy occurs, the fittest and most competent man is promoted to fill that vacancy. 3599. Is any priority given to those who have been longest in the Government service?—Other1 things being equal, yes. I mean that if two men are equally competent, and one is the other's senior, 1 would then take the senior man; but if the junior is the most competent, I would take the junior. 3600. Are there no instances in which promotion has been given to inferior men over better men of long standing ? —Not that 1 am aware of. 3601. Is it not a fact that outsiders, without previous experience or training, have been promoted over old servants and paid higher rates of wages ?—I do not know of any such cases, 25—E. 3.
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3602 Will you state what are the relative rates of pay for all classes of workmen in the workshops throughout the Middle Island ?—Labourers receive about Bs. per day, mechanics from 10s. to S' 3603 Can you furnish a list of those employed in the Christehurch, Dunedin, and Invercargill shops, with the rate of pay attached ?—I can. I may say that smiths are paid somewhat higher—some receive 13s. per day. rCirMfoJwcS-Latourers : three at 6 8 ., one at 65., forty-three at, 75., thirty-three at Bs. ; total 80 Mechanics: one at 7s six at Bs., eight at 95., thirty-six at 10s, fifty-ore at lie, two at 12s. ; total, 104. DWi»—Labourers : one at 58., three at. 75., one at 7s. fid, thirty-six at Bs, one at Bs. 6d, one at 95. ; total, 43 Mechanics : one at 6s. 4d., seven at b s twelve at 9s, eleven at 10s, nineteen at lls, thirlysix at 125., one at 13s, one (forgeman, Port Chalmers), at 15s. ; total, 88. Invercargill—Uhomexs : one at 7s, four at Bs, three at 95.; total, 8. Mechanics: one at 7s, two at Bs, five at 9s, four at 10s, four at lls, four at 12s. ; total, 20.] 3604 Is there any uniformity in the pay? Does a smith receive the same rate of pay whether lie is at Invercargill, Dunedin, or'Cbristchureh ?—Not necessarily. The rates of pay are ruled by the rates paid bv private firms in the various towns. _ 3605. Do you know of any reason why the Government should pay a different rate at Invercargill from what they pay in Dunedin ?—No, Ido not know of any reason. 3(500 Or in either of these places from what they pay in Christehurch ?—-No, none. 3607. The rates in those centres should be uniform ?"— They should. It should be borne in mind that the railways not very long ago were quite disconnected, each section being worked under the respective Provincial Governments. 1 have no doubt that many old servants were rated in those days at the same rates they are now receiving; and that may account for the difference in pay. For instance, I know a station master in Canterbury is receiving £350 a year and a first-class house. That is an old Provincial arrangement, I have submitted to the Minister for Public Works a complete classification of the whole railway staff in the Middle Island, with minimum and maximum rates of pay through every grade. '3608. When was this clone ?— A few weeks ago. 3609. No representation was made on the subject during the three years you had charge ?—JNo— I mean I have had no complaints. I have long felt that a complete and proper classification was necessary, and also that we should be relieved of this continued worry from the men for increase of pay, and that minimum and maximum rates should be absolutely fixed. The scheme 1 have submitted to the Minister for Public Works is, I think, complete, and would meet the case fully. 3610. Has any system been adopted for keeping the locomotive accounts, so that one Locomotive Engineer can compare results with another?—We do keep locomotive accounts. 3611. On one uniform system ? —Tea. 3612. So that the Locomotive Engineer in Christehurch can compare the result of his working with the Locomotive Engineer in Dunedin ?—Yes. T have attached to my report for the last nine months the number and classification of every engine running in the Middle Island, the miles run, the tons hauled one mile, the cost for working the engine, the cost for repairing the engine, the coal consumed by each, the cost per train-mile, the cost per ton-mile hauled, and the total cost of the engine for the nine months. 3613. How long has that system been introduced ?—Three years. 3614. I mean in this complete form ?—This is the first complete return I have attached to my reports, upon a complete uniform system for both sections. They have been using the same forms—the enginemen's return, &c—since the railways became the property of the General Government. 3615. Have any steps been taken to get experts to determine the relative merits of the various classes of engines at work, so that you may know in ordering fresh ones which are the most valuable to order ? Well, I call myself an expert, and profess to know all about the various locomotives. 3616. Are the locomotives ordered by you ?—No ;by the Public Works Department, 3617. Have the Locomotive Engineers been consulted by the Public Works Department as to the best engines to order in the future?—There is an arrangement now in force that any stock ordered by the Public Works Department shall be ordered on the joint recommendation of the Engineer in Charge (Mr. Blair) and myself. That is quite a recent arrangement. Previously the Public Works Department ordered the various kinds of stock—that is, up to the time Mr. Carruthers left the service. The engines ordered since have been on my recommendation. 3618. Have those engines that were in use been classified according to their capabilities and economy by any experts appointed for that special purpose—l mean experts in your own service ?—The return to which I have just referred shows exactly what each engine has cost, the work it has performed ; and, in fact, I think that the return is so complete that any one can judge of the capabilities of the various kinds of engines by reading ifc. 3619. Can you state what are the best types of engines, according to your experience, in the Middle Island? —We have sixteen types, and I would recommend that five out of the sixteen should be adhered to. The first is the 4-wheel shunting-engine; the second is theG-wheel branch-line engine, with single bogie in front; the third is the class of American engines for light passenger traffic on the Canterbury Plains ; the fourth is the 6-coupled tender-engine now used in Canterbury; and the fifth is the single Fairlie, for the heavy grades and sharp curves in Otago. : 3620. Can you state what advantage the single Fairlie engine has over the double farmer —Ine double Fairlie is, in fact, two engines combined. The repairs are double, and the expense is consequently much higher. My experience is, that the double Fairlies are too powerful for the work we have to do. If we could always get full trains—that is, as much as the engine could pull—l would advocate double Fairlies; but"with our mixed traffic—passenger and goods, light and heavy—l would certainly prefer the single Fairlie. . . 3621. As being more economical under the circumstances? —Yes; that is the only point 1 am considering. ~ • 3622. What action did you take when the bad workmanship done at Dunedin was represented to you about two years ago—that is, bad workmanship in connection with the wagons?—l inquired who built them. lam satisfied that it was not the Railway Department who were to blame.
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3623. Did you not ascertain who was responsible for passing those wagons ? —I can tell you the department that passed them: it was the Public Works Department. They were built, I believe, speaking from memory, in Oamaru, by contract, and were urgently required for use by Brogden and Sons, the contractors. 3624. The numbers on the wagons should show who built them, and the date ?—They were built by McNab and Aimers, of Oamaru. 3625. Has not a large portion of the stock on the Dunedin Section which has been found to require repairs been sent up to Christchurch for the purpose ? —No ; except one lot of carriages from Invercargill. 3626. To what section would these repairs be debited ?—To Christchurch, because they wanted carriages. They were sorely pressed for carriage-stock at the time ; and, since the line was opened through, I removed about fourteen or fifteen carriages, that were standing in Invercargill doing nothing and exposed to the weather, to Christchurch, repaired them, varnished them, and set them to work on the Christchurch Section. 3627. Who was responsible for allowing some three thousand pounds' worth of rock to be carried from Lyttelton to Timaru, and to be pitched into the sea at Whale Creek ?—The case was an urgent one, and we were glad to get rock from any place at any price, as the traffic was entirely stopped by sea-encroachment. 3628. How long was this going on ? —Some months. 3629. And was it not possible to get rock at Timaru during those months ?—We did get rock at Timaru, and it was found to be very inferior to the rock we obtained from Lyttelton: it would not bear the abrasion of the sea, and very soon became boulders, instead of rock. Mr. Lowe, our Engineer, was most anxious that the Lyttelton rock should be used in preference to the Timaru rock. He watched it carefully, and reported very strongly upon it. And, further, the contractor in Timaru failed to deliver the quantity iu the prescribed time. If I remember rightly, he abandoned the thing altogether. 3630. Can you say what you paid per ton for that rock in Lyttelton ? —No ; but I shall ascertain. [Lyttelton rock, 65.; Timaru rock, 6s. 6d. (contractor applied for his contract to be determined; his rate of delivery was very slow).] 3631. The rock which vou attempted to procure at Timaru was not bluestone rock? —It was not; we could not got bluestone thore. I never saw any. 3632. Is there not plenty of rock in the cutting a short distance this side of Whale Creek ?— There is a thin layer of volcanic rock through the cutting, but we required large quantities quickly, which we were in a position to obtain from Lyttelton. 3633. Do you mean to say that during three or four months the rock in that cutting could not have been blasted ?—I mean to say that the rock within the railway-boundary was quite insufficient to supply us with the quantity required. 3634. Was any attempt made to use any of it?—No, not from the railway-cutting. It would have been too expensive. There are several feet of stripping above it. 3635. Would not the cutting itself have been improved by the removal of that rock? —It would have improved the cuttings, undoubtedly. The wider cuttings are, the better. 3636. In carrying that large quantity of stone from Lyttelton to Timaru would the traffic department get any credit for carrying it ?—No. 3637. Was the cost of it charged to construction or maintenance? —It was charged to construction. An authority was obtained from the Minister for Public Works, and the construction department debited with the amount. 3638. Do you think that was properly charged to construction ? —I do. The reason was the faulty construction of the line. The line was built too near the sea. The sea washed away a portion of Whale Creek viaduct. 3639. How long had that been standing before any damage was done to it ?—I cannot say. I should think about five years. 3610. In your opinion, what was the immediate cause of the damage to the viaduct ?—-Well, I agree with Mr. Blackett —that is, that the damage was caused by the Timaru breakwater stopping the northern travel of the shingle. 3641. Does not that statement to a great extent qualiFy your previous statement as to the faulty placement of the line? —I still state that the line is built too near the sea. 3642. Still, no damage whatever occurred until the shingle was stopped ? —No. I may explain that, had I laid out the line, I would not have gone so close as this line was carried, on the score of safety. 3643. By what process is the revenue derived from passengers and goods over long distances apportioned to the several sections on the main line ?—The matter is dealt with practically in the same way as the London Clearing-house deals with traffic carried over different companies' lines. ¥ov instance, if goods are booked in Dunedin for Christchurch, the amount of revenue is ascertained and divided by the number of miles the goods are carried; each section is then credited with its amount according to its mileage—that is, at per ton per mile. 3644. Then what becomes of the terminal charges ? —The terminal charges are added to the mileage rates. 3645. In your report of 1878 you mention that a new office was organized on the 15th December, 1877, for the management of the reserves, surplus lands, cottages, refreshment-rooms, bookstalls, &c. : can you state the cost of that department ?—Yes, one man. 3646. And what is his salary ? —An old provincial salary of, I think, £300 a year. 3647. Was it not possible for the District Traffic Managers to take charge of these matters ?—They are doing so now, the office having been abolished. 3648. Mr. Clark.] Does the charge of Id. per truck per mile over the Ttakaia and Methven Company's line pay the wear and tear and interest on the money ?—lt depends entirely upon how many miles they run the wagon. If an ordinary day's work is performed by the wagon on their line, it pays
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well; but if the wagon ran 3 or 4 miles only, and was then loaded and brought back, it would not pay in that case. If it ran 20 or 24 miles, it would pay very handsomely indeed. 3649. Generally speaking, do the wagons which are loaded upon that branch line not run over a portion of the main line ? —Always. 3650. Then, as far as the wear and tear of the wagon upon the branch line is concerned, does it make any difference what mileage it runs upon the branch line?—Undoubtedly the wear and tear is going on every hour the wagon runs ; but it is a very trifling matter —so small that if I could get the carriage of goods from their junction to Christchurch or Lyttelton, I would willingly lend them wagons to run 5 or 6 miles over their line (if drawn by their own engine) without charge. 3651. Then, for any wagons which travel over both lines you get the ordinary haulage rate from the junction to Christchurch?—We get the ordinary gazetted rates, with full terminal charges. 3652. The Company finds all the labour ? —Yes, it pays everything. 3653. Then you give the Company credit for haulage over their portion of the line, and one terminal charge ? —We give them no terminal charge. They make their own charges for the goods. They pay the Government Id. per mile for the distance the loaded wagon runs over their line. At present we keep the terminals. 3654. In what way does the Company collect the freight on the goods travelling over their line ? —"We collect it if outwards traffic from the branch : that is, if goods are booked "to pay," we collect; if goods are booked " paid," the sending station collects, and vice versa. 3655. Do you not think it rather a hard arrangement with that Company for the Government to charge for the terminal charge, and the Company to do the work ?—Well, it is somewhat. Government rates are fixed, and I am simply there to act. The tariff is gazetted, and I cannot depart from it. If I allow the goods to go without collecting the terminals, I must pay it out of rny own pocket. 3656. The object of a terminal charge is to pay the cost of loading and unloading ? —That is partly the object. There is the loading and unloading, the shunting and detention of wagons. 3657. You state that Id. per truck per mile pays handsomely ? —Tes, if the truck travels a fair average day's mileage. 3658. Then why does the Government allow ljd. per truck per mile to the Dunedin Wagon Company ?—lt is not ljd. per wagon : it is id. per ton per mile. 3659. But the arrangement applies to coal-wagons only ?—lt applies to any class of minerals, and to minerals only. 3660. What other minerals besides coal? —Road-metal; gravel. Coal is the main traffic. The Kaitangata Coal Company own wagons which carry only 4 tons each. 3661. But what do the Dunedin Wagon Company's wagons hold? —Five tons, if filled. 3662. Will they not practically be filled ninety-nine times out of a hundred ? —Yes. 3663. So that, in reality, l-}d. is practically the allowance ? —Yes. 3664. What object is served by the Government hiring wagons from (his Company?—At the time the Company was formed, the Government were very short of wagons ; but it was a matter between the Minister for Public Works and the Company. I had nothing to do with the arrangement myself. 3665. Would it not have been better for the Government to have purchased them ?—Yes. I have recommended the Government to purchase them. 3666. Mr. WriijlitP\ Who keeps these wagons in repair ? —The Company. We have nothing to do with them. 3667. Mr. Olarlc.~\ On referring to the waybills, you say there is a column for paid and unpaid. Has the freight of "unpaid" to be collected on delivery of the goods?—-There are two columns —one "paid," and the other "to pay." If the money is entered in the " paid" column, it is paid by the consignor; but if in the column "to pay," it is to be collected from the consignee. 3668. Are these accounts collected on delivery, or is any credit given ? —-We have ledger accounts in large cities. 3669. Does the system of having ledger accounts prevail in both Islands ?—I cannot say. It certainly prevails throughout the Middle Island. 3670. For how long? —In Otago, ever since we had railways. I introduced it there from the very first. [Form of application has since been handed in.]
Wellington, Tuesday, 6th July, 1880. Mr. William Costers —examination continued. 3671. Mr. Wricfht."] Are you aware that the rates charged undor the New Zealand tariff on some descriptions of goods are very much below those charged in the neighbouring colonies ? —I am aware that such is the case. I produce a statement showing the comparative rates in the respective colonies. In some items we are below the rates charged in other colonies. 3672. You notice that coal is carried very much below the rates charged on the Victorian railways ? —Yes. 3673. Is not the charge for coal nnder 10 miles 50 per cent, higher in Victoria, and 25 per cent, higher in New South Wales than in New Zealand ?—Yes. 3674. And on the 150 miles 10s. lOd. in New Zealand, as against £1 in Victoria, and 12s. 6d. in New South Wales ?—Yes. 3675. Or nearly 100 per cent, higher in Victoria, and about 16 per cent, higher in New South Wales ?—Yes. 3676. We will take the item, fat and tallow. For the 10-mile distance the Victorian tariff is 100 per cent, above the New Zealand tariff? —Yes. 3677. And in New South Wales 20 per cent ?—Yes. 3678. And on the 150 miles the Victorian tariff is about 30 per cent, higher than New Zealand ? —Yes. 3679. And the New South Wales tariff is about 70 per cent, higher ?—Yes.
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3680. If you take the item, stone (dressed), the charge in Victoria for short distances is 500 per cent, above the New Zealand charge? —Yes. I may say this : that, if we charged Is. per ton per mile for the haulage of stone, we should never haul; no one would pay such a charge. The Victoriau rate probably includes terminal charge, while the New Zealand rate is for haulage only. 3681. Then, if you take the New South Wales tariff, the charge for haulage only is 250 per cent, higher than in. New Zealand ? —Yes. 3682. While for long distances the Victorian tariff is about 180 per cent, higher, and the New South Wales, which covers haulage onlv, is about 140 per cent, higher ? —Yes. 3683. Take the item, hrieks : the Victoriau tariff is 225 per cent, higher than the New Zealand tariff ?—Yes. 3684. The New South Wales tariff is the same for short distances ? —Yes. 3685. Take the item, road-metal in full loads : the charge on the Victorian lines is 550 per cent, higher than in New Zealand ? —Yes. 3686. And in New South Wales 50 per cent, higher ? —Yes. 3687. While for longer distances the charge in Victoria is about 50 per cent, higher, and in New South Wales about 10 per cent, higher?—Yes. 3688. The sheep rates in Victoria are douhle for the first 10 miles ?—Yes. 3689. On the longer distances they show an excess over our rates of about 10 per cent, on the 50 miles, and about 50 per cent, on the 100 miles, and about 35 per cent, on the 150 miles ? —Yes. 3690. On the other hand, the rates in New South Wales are somewhat lower all through ? —Yes. 3691. The cattle rates in Victoria are 50 per cent, higher for the first 10 miles ? —Yes. 3692. And from 25 to 50 per cent, on other distances? —Yes. 3693. The rate in New South Wales is the same for the first 10 miles ?—-Yes. 3691. And from 30 to 40 per cent, higher on the longer distances ? —Yes. 3695. Do you not think it possible to increase many of these rates, in order to make our railways somewhat more profitable? —I should like to state that the tariff is one of the most important considerations in connection with the administration of a railway. It is of great importance, not only to the Government, but to the country ; and my own opinion is, and always has been, that moderate rates are the essence of the country's agricultural and commercial prosperity. I mean that ;f we attempted to charge farmers for their grain such rates as would pay 5 per cent, on the cost of construction, there would be no grain grown in the interior; and I have always tried to bring into operation as moderate rates as I possibly could. I feel convinced that, if our population could be doubled to-day, the railways would pay handsomely at the existing rates. The North Island Commissioner and myself are now busily employed in framing a tariff, the object of which is to enable the railways to produce a net revenue that will pay 5 per cent, on the cost of construction. With regard to the item, road-metal, I would explain that that is half the ordinary New Zealand mineral rate. It was introduced by the Minister for Public Works in consequence of outside pressure brought by the Eoad Boards and County ■Councils. 3696. As you have dwelt on the desirability of keeping down the charges on agricultural produce, I would call your attention to the first item in this comparative statement of tariff, grain and root crops. You will find there that the New Zealand charge is 30 per cent, higher than the Victorian charge for the first 10 miles ?—Yes. 3697. And over 100 per cent, higher than the New South Wales charge ?—Yes. 3698. And that for all greater distances it is about 15 per cent, higher than the Victorian tariff ? — Yes. 3699. And at least 36 per cent, higher than the New South Wales tariff? —Yes. 3700. So that any increase in the charges for grain and root crops is not justified by comparison with the tariff in the neighbouring colonies ?-— No ; I admit that. I may state that the action I took about nine months ago induced the Minister for Public Works to reduce the rates for grain very considerably. The rates for the carriage of grain in New Zealand are considerably lower than those in South Australia, which is the great grain-producing colony of Australia. 3701. We will take the item, wool. The charges in New Zealand are nearly 50 per cent, higher than the charges in Victoria?—Yes. 3702. And in New South Wales the charges are practically the same ? —Yes. 3703. Take the item, stone (dressed). If you compare the New Zealand charges with the charges on the Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Kail way, you will find that it is carried at considerably less than one-half the English rate ?—Yes. I must add that the rate for stone (dressed) in New Zealand is for haulage only ; the rate charged by the Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway includes collection and delivery. 3701. Even allowing for collection and delivery, do you think 355. 5d., on the New Zealand lines, as against 86s. Bd. a reasonable charge ? —I do not remember why this low rate was introduced, but I have no hesitation in saying that there has been some sound reason for it. In regard to the Oamarii stone, a low rate was made in order to secure the business of carrying stone to Dunedin and Christchurch that would otherwise have gone by sea. 3705. If it is necessary to charge 86s. on an English line, even including collection and delivery, do you think that we can carry it on the New Zealand railways at a profit for 355. ? —I think we can carry it at a profit at the rates set down in this statement of tariff. 3706. The Chairman.'] What is your opinion as to the bearing of a uniform tariff as distinguished from a differential tariff on the profitable working of the railways?—Do you mean a tariff without classification ? 3707. No ; I mean a tariff applicable to all parts of the colony alike, regardless of local circumstances? —I am undoubtedly opposed to a uniform tariff. 8708. Are you of opinion that the working of the railways is unprofitable to a much greater extent than it would be if a uniform tariff could bo dispensed with? —I am of that opinion. My opinion is that the railways should be worked on purely commercial principles —that is, that the various rates charged in the several districts should be exactly in accord with the local circumstances. Where there is competition rates should be low ; where there ia no competition the rates should be moderately
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fair ratea. But in every case I would endeavour to secure the traffic. For instance, as to passenger traffic, if I had a coach competing with me, and passengers were carried at Is., I would carry them at 10d., and so on. The trains must run, and the heavier we can make them the hetter, as the cost is practically the same. 370!). The remarks you have made with respect to passenger traffic I presume apply equally to goods traffic?—Yes. 3710. Do you think that the receipts from the railways would be very materially increased by adopting a discriminating tariff? —I do. 3711. You could not give any idea approximately to what extent per cent, an increase might be made by that change ? —No, I could not give it to you without consideration and calculation ; but I think that the revenue would certainly be very considerably increased, while the expenditure would not be increased. 3712. Mr. Wright.'] With regard to the number of wagons : while there were 1,093 wagons on the Amberley and Bluff line in 1876, you had 4,2(30 during the last grain season ?—Yes. The 4,260 includes Nelson, Picton, Westport, and Q-reytnouth. Two hundred and seventy is the number of wagons in these four places. 3713. "With that deduction you had 3,990 wagons on the Amberley aad Bluff liailway during the last grain season, as compared with 1,093 in 1876 ?—Yes. 3714. Do you not think that this very large increase in the number of wagons has been the main cause of facilitating the delivery of the grain?—Undoubtedly it has been of very great service. 3715. Has it not been the main cause?—Yes; probably the main cause. Having the extra wagons has been of invaluable assistance to us. The mileage has increased in a very large proportion, and the crops also, in March, 1876, in Dunedin, we worked 57 miles of railways—-that is, exclusive of Oaniaru and Invercargill. In Christchurch we worked 241 miles. The present length of line from Amberley to Kingston is 755 miles. A question was asked me yesterday with regard to the Nelson Traffic Manager. He is engaged under special agreement, and was brought from England. That was before I had any control of the Nelson Kailway. 3716. When does that special agreement expire?—l cannot say when it expires. It was for five years, and was entered into in Mr. Passmore's time. I have inquired respecting the rock near Timaru, and find that what you slated regarding it was correct—that it runs down to the formation. But I submit that blasting operations there, with the trains passing so frequently, would be dangerous. 3717. Would it be any more dangerous than an ordinary obstruction on the line when a slip occurs ? —When a slip occurs the traffic is stopped. 3718. But could not the danger be obviated by proper precautions ? —Well, it might; but Ido not think it would be well to incur the risk seeing that we could get stone from other places that answered the purposes fully as well, if not better. I admit that it would be a desirable thing to widen the cutting at that point. 3719. And would have been less costly than quarrying stone and carrying it from Lyttelton?— Yes, it would have been less costly. 1 should like to state the instructions I have issued as to the maximum speed trains shall be run on the Middle Island railways. This was an order given to the Traffic Managers that they may follow in preparing the working time-tables. The following are the rates of speed for the several descriptions of trains:—
The above rates are to be the actual running-speed, exclusive of stoppages. A reduction of 10 per cent, on the above spoeds is to be made in trains running between Oamaru and Mosgiel.
Wellington, Wednesday, 7th July, 18S0. Mr. William Conyers—examination continued. 3720. Mr. Wriglit.~\ Can you state the average weight of all the trains —the average paying load ? —On the lines that are practically level —that is, on the Plains—the average gross load is 140 tons, and the net load is 80 tons. The average load for the heavy grades is, gross, 63 tons ; net, 3G tons. Fortyseveu per cent, of the total train-mileage is on the level portion of the country—that is, north of Oamaru ; and 53 per cent, on the grades south of Oamaru. I admit that there are many level pieces —for instance, on the Taieri Plain ; hut the grade rules the road, and if we have to go over these heavy grades, one or two miles of level country between do not help us, unless we keep up banking engines, which of course we cannot do. lam speaking of the entire line from Amberley to Kingston. 3721. Mr. ReidP\ Would not the Mataura Plains aud all those level tracts of country in Southland come in as level country ? —We have heavy grades there, and the traffic is very light. I have considered that question very carefully. You will probably remember the Edendale bank. That limits
Special. Miles per Hour. Daft ' Evprosa. per Hour. MiL 'asscnger. SS per Hour. Mixed. Miles per Hour. Mil Goods. lea per Hi air. Co Mil. )nsolidat: Kngines. ea per He ion. >ur. m P § 3 25 O CO "d a 00 rM p a m '3 Ph I I s re 1 O CO I 1 p a, 3 1 I 20 o CO 88 00 cq '3 3 a, S io ■I 15 o CO § GO I I M 22 i o (3 o rn I 18 6 i Ph 15 25 22 20 12 17 12 15 ! io 12
Erratum. —ln Parliamentary Paper E.-3, page 199, Question No. 3729, for " \A. per ton," read " id. per ton."
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the load of each train ; and the traffic is so light there that the level country is not of a great deal of importance. The heavy country, of course, is from Oamaru south —to Balclutha even ; and on the Lawrence branch the grades are about 1 in 44, with 5-chain reverse curves, -with no straight line between them. 3722. Mr. Wright!\ Tou stated the other day that the average cost per mile of running trains over the Middle Island railways was about 4s. 7d. per train-mile ?—Yes. 3723. What is the average margin between expenditure and receipts upon most of the railways in Great Britain? —About 47 per cent, is the net revenue—that is, 53 per cent, expenses —which agrees exactly with our expenditure during the grain season here. We have 53 per cent, expenses for the first two months of this year. The rate per cent, of expenses in England and Wales on the gross receipts is 54-4. The expenditure per train-mile is 37'6d., and the expenses per mile on the railways per annum, £2,292. 3724. Then, if the average cost of working is 4s. 7d. per train-mile, and the average expense is taken at 55 per cent, of receipts, the yield from the freight per train-mile should be about 9s. to represent a paying traffic? —Yes. I can give you that exactly, as I have it all worked out in connection with the new tariff, which I have explained is now in hand. Taking the train-miles run for the nine months ending 31st March, 1880, the mileage was 1,413,339, which is equal to 1.884.452 miles per annum. The expenses per train-mile are 55d., so that the gross sum of £431,853 is required for working expenses, being £572 per mile per annum. The amount required to pay 5 per cent, on the cost of construction is in round numbers £300,000, which is equal to 38'2d. per train-mile. The total amount of earnings required for expenses and interest at 5 per cent, is £731,854, being equal to 932d. per train-mile, or £970 per mile of railway per annum. 3725. I will refer now to your last statement, in which you said the amount required to constitute a paying load is 7s. 9d. per train-mile ? —Yes. 372G. Then how many tons, at Id. per ton, would represent a paying load on this basis ?—Ninetythree tons. 3727. And at id. per ton, how many tons?—One hundred and eighty-six tons. 3728. And then, if any load of merchandise over a heavy grade is not more than 3G tons, and is carried at a charge of -|d. per ton, that is less than one-fifth of a paying load? —Yes. 3729. Then on this basis the timber carried from Invercargill to Oamaru and Christchurch at id. per ton per mile is carried at about 20 per cent, of the proper charge. lam speaking now of a possible load of timber only ?—Yes. If we carried a train-load of timber consisting of 36 tons net load, the train would be working at a heavy loss ; but the timber is carried in a mixed train along with other merchandise, and also with passengers, and if the rates were higher we should lose the carriage of the timber entirely. 3730. Now, supposing this timber to be carried in private wagons, you would pay for the 36 tons |d. per ton per mile, or 9d. per mile on the train-load ? —Yes. 3731. So that the net result to the railway, after paying for the hire of the wagons, would be 9d. per train-load, as against a sum of 7s. 9d., which is the freight required to constitute a paying traffic ? —Yes ; but we never carry timber in private wagons. 3732. Are you aware that timber is carried at this rate from Invercargill to Christchurch ?—I am not aware of it. 3733. Mr. Clark.] "Would not the haulage expenses of the line amount to more than Is. 6d. per train-mile?—The exact figure is B'9d. 3734. Mr. Wright.] Does not that charge of 8 9d. apply to an average tonnage of 79'8? —Yes. 3735. And would it not be proportionately greater if the maximum load the engine could take was 36 tons?—Yes. 3736. I would ask whether the cost of haulage, which you. put down at 8 93d., should not be increased by 346d. for wagon charges and 18'46d. maintenance charges per train-mile, representing 3TB5d. as the total average cost of haulage per train-mile, exclusive of general charges?—l cannot answer that exactly : I must in a measure qualify it. I admit this is the expense, if it comes out at per train-mile, as the trains are now running ; but if our business would enable us to increase the train-mileage those charges would then somewhat decrease, owing to certain portions of the money being required independently of the number of trains that run. Practically, the figures you gave are correct. 3737. You have stated that you have had to replace rotten Oregon sleepers on the main south line ?—Yes. 3738. Who supplied those sleepers ?—They were supplied when the line was built. The Government supplied a very large number. The Government imported them. I can state further that the bulk of the Oregon sleepers were in the Oamaru District. I would like to say that our expenses appear somewhat high, because every month we put in between 4,000 and 5,000 new sleepers, all of which are paid for out of the revenue, of course. During some months we have had to put in as many as 8,000 sleepers. 3739. Has not a large amount of ballasting been done on the main south line to house the sleepers ? —Yes. 3740. Has it been charged to construction or maintenance ? —lt has been charged to maintenance. The embankments have been widened and the road thoroughly ballasted, all of which has been charged to maintenance. 3741. Do you collect accounts for the Union Steamship Company ?—We do. 3742. At all ports ?—At Lyttelton and Port Chalmers. 3743. Who made this arrangement ? —I cannot say whether it was made by the Minister or by myself; but if by myself 1 had the Minister's approval. 3744. Do you make no charge for collecting? —We do not. 3745. Do you remember that in connection with the Lyttelton Harbour Board dues you proceeded to charge 5 per cent, for the collection of their dues ? —Yes. 3746. And it was ultimately reduced to 2i per cent.?—Yes,
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3747. Then, if 2| per cent, is a fair charge to the Lytteltou Harbour Board, on what ground do you collect the sums for the Shipping Company without charge ? —The Shipping Company collects moneys for the railway : that is to say, if they bring goods by steamer, to be delivered by rail, that are booked through, they pay our portion of the charges ; and the arrangement is looked upon as a public advantage. 1 may say that it was not the Company which was considered at the time, but the public ; so that when our collector goes for money, he collects the railway money and the Company's money at the same time. 3748. It amounts to this : that you do work outside of the legitimate business of the railway for the convenience of the public ?—ln that case we do. 3749. And to that extent the railway revenue suffers ?—I cannot say that. If we did not collect the Union Company's money, we could not reduce our staff by one man. 3750. Is there any additional clerical work entailed at head-quarters in connection with these accounts ? —Not that lam aware of. I cannot answer the question. It is dealt with by the Audit Department here. 3751. And it therefore involves extra labour? —Undoubtedly there is a little additional labour attached to it; but in Christchurch we could not reduce cur staff if we did not collect this money. 3752. Mr. Clark.'] Under the arrangement with the Dunediu Wagon Company, that Company would receive Is. Bd. per traiii-mile for a full load —for that which, according to the returns, costs 2d. plies interest on the outlay for the cost of wagons ? —Yes ; if the train carried 80 tons of minerals in the Company's wagons, the Company would receive Is. Bd. per train-mile. 3753. Mr. Wright.'] And, in addition, does not the railway haul the return empties free? —Yes. 3754. Mr. Clark.] You give the average cost per train-mile in England as 35., and in New Zealand as 4s. 7d. ?—Yes. 3755. Are the New Zealand rates of freight 50 per cent, over the English rates ? —I cannot speak positively, but I should think that they are not. 3756. Would not the rate in New Zealand require to be more than 50 per cent, higher than the English rates in order to make our lines pay ? —No. Whether the lines would pay or not, even at the existing rates, depends entirely upon the amount of traffic, as is proved by the returns for the month of April. 3757. I mean, taking the existing state of things in New Zealand, and not a supposed state of things ?—Taking the business as it is, the rates should be much higher than in Great Britain in order to pay interest on the cost of construction. 3758. I wish to get it more exactly. The cost of running each train being 50 per cent, more than in England, would it not require, under the existing circumstances of New Zealand, over 50 per cent, more than in England to make them pay? —Not exactly, as our lines have been constructed very cheaply as compared with those of Great Britain. But 1 have always held that our rates should be considerably higher than in Great Britain in consequence of our rate of wages and cost of fuel being so much higher. 3759. Will not the fact that a large portion of the trains in Now Zealand run with less than halfloads more than counterbalance any saving in interest on the difference in the cost of construction ?— It will undoubtedly tend in a great measure to that result. 3760. Mr. Wright.] What has been done with the three officials who were recently placed at Invercargill —that is, the Traffic Manager, the goods manager, and the stationmaster ? Where are they now located ?—The Traffic Manager is now Traffic Manager, stationmaster, and goods agent at Invercargill. He does their work. The Invercargill stationmaster has been removed to the Bluff, and the goods agent has been sent to a small station on the Winton-Kingston line. 3761. Then the over-zealous officer, the stationmaster, who called attention to the waste is disrated ? —I cannot say that he is disrated. 3762. Has he not been removed to an inferior station ? —-Yes ; but he gets the same salary. 3763. And the careless officer, who neglected to call your attention to the extravagance, retains his position? —He does. 3764. Has he received any increase of pay?—No ; he retains his position, with increased work, but with no increase of pay. Mr. Watson Shennan, sheep-farmer, sworn and examined. 3765. The Chairman.] Are you a holder of depasturing licenses, or a freeholder? —In Maniototo District lam both leaseholder and f reeholder. I own about 700 acres freehold in that district. 3766. Have you an intimate knowledge of the Maniototo District ?—Yes. 3767. Can you give the Commission any information ?.s to the character of the land in the Maniototo Plains, through which the proposed railway would pass—land adapted for agricultural purposes? —I estimate that there is about 20 per cent, of second- and third-class agricultural land. No firstclass agricultural land in the district. This refers only to the Maniototo Plain. 3768. What is the nature of the remainder ? —Hard, shingly plains or flats. 3769. Do you consider that would only be useful for pastoral purposes ? —Nothing else, unless it were irrigated. 3770. Mr. Wright.] How many years have you been resident in Otago ? —Twenty-two years. 3771. Are you well acquainted with other agricultural districts in Otago ? —Yes; I know most of them pretty intimately. 3772. What depth of soil is there on what you call hard, shingly land ?—Hardly any soil at all: there is a mixture of sand amongst the shingle, but no depth of soil. 3773. Has any land been cultivated on the Maniototo Plains ?—Yes, to a small extent. 3774. Do you know with what results ?—Generally with very poor results. 3775. Are you acquainted with the Strath Taieri ?—Slightly. 3776. Can you state your opinion of the quantity and quality of the land in Strath Taieri fit for agriculture—from the Gorge to Taieri Lake ? —I think 20,000 acres of really good agricultural land.
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3777. Where does that lie ?—The greatest portion is on the west bant of the river—some also on the east bank. 3778. Would you class the hillside on the east bank of the river as agricultural land ?—No ; only the flats along the river-bank. 3779. How much second-class and inferior agricultural land is there in that valley? —I think about 10,000 acres would include everything, and a great part of that would be broken and rocky. 3780. Are you acquainted with Ida Valley ? —Yes. 3781. How much agricultural land is there? —Twenty thousand acres good soil, 10,000 acres second-class land which might be cultivated. I think that is all in Ida Valley; but very little of this land wiil yield good crops, owing to the excessive dryness of the climate. 3782. Are you of opinion that it would be a suitable spot for small-farm settlers ?—I do not think so, the climate being so unfavourable, and the carriage, even by rail, too great to make grain-growing pay at the present time. 3783. Mr. Clark.'] What amount of first-class agricultural land do you consider there is in the Manuherikia Valley ? —I hold there is none in it; but there may be about 10,000 acres of second-class land in it. 3784. Do you consider that any further portion would be fit for agriculture? —No, except a few narrow strips alongside the creeks. 3785. Colonel Pearee.~] Do you know the line of route of proposed railway from the Taieri Plain to the entrance of Strath Taieri ? —Tes ; it is very rough, broken pastoral country.
Welhqtotoh1, Sattteday, 10th July, 1880. Mr. Thomas Fobth Eothebam, District Manager, Patea and Manawatu Eailway, sworn and examined. 378(5. The Chairman. 7] How long have you held your present office ?—I have been on the present section of the railway about two years and four months. 3787. "What previous experience had you in this colony ? —I was nearly three years on the Picton and Blenheim Eailway as General Manager, and previously on the same railway assisting the Eesident Engineer, Mr. Dobson. 3788. Had you any experience of railway management before you went on the Picton line ? —I have been all my life on railways. 3789. In other colonies, or in England ? —ln Great Britain. 3790. Had you experience in traffic management previous to coming to the colony ? —No, not more than what I gathered from being on the railway. I had no actual connection with traffic management. 3791. Mr. Wright,"] In what capacity were you connected with railways in the Old Country ? —I had been first an apprentice as a mechanical engineer. I served my apprenticeship as a locomotive and mechanical engineer. 3792. How long were you connected with locomotive construction before leaving England ? —About twelve years. 3793. So that you think you have a thorough knowledge of that subject ? —I do. 3794. Tou are aware that the locomotives on the New Zealand railways comprise a great variety of types ? —-Yes. 3795. As far as you are aware, has any report been prepared by locomotive experts pointing out which are the best and which are the worst kinds of types ? —I am not aware of any. 3796. Do you think it desirable that a conference of the Locomotive Engineers in the colony should be held with a view to determine that question ? —I do. It is very desirable that the Locomotive Superintendents should meet and confer on the matter. 3797. You think it a matter of considerable importance in railway management? —I think it is of very great importance. My reason for thinking so is this: I myself, as a locomotive-man, have my own opinion about locomotives, and every other man has his opinion, and it would be far better for all to meet and agree upon some definite course for carrying on the work and doing the repairs. 3798. What is your experience as to the relative merits of the single and double Fairlie engines ? —The double Faiflie engine, if you keep it doing a maximum amount of work on grades and curves, is more economical than the single Fairlie ; but the single Fairlie, with medium loads and curves of, we will say, about 7 or 8 chains radius, would be a superior engine to the double Fairlie. 3799. To what extent, supposing the double Fairlie is doing her maximum ? —The double Fairlie on my own section would take twenty-four or twenty-five vehicles from Halcombe; the single Fairlie would take fourteen : that is, as far as Turakina. From Turakina, on a heavy grade, the double Fairlie would take twelve or thirteen vehicles, and the single Fairlie nine or ton. The loads I mention do not represent the full power of the engines. They could run to time with these loads. 3800. So that the double Fairlie can do 70 per cent, more work on easy grades than the single Fairlie, and about 30 per cent, more on the heavy grades ? —Yes. 3801. Would the running expenses of the double Fairlie over the single Fairlie counterbalance this extra duty ?—I should say that the double Fairlie is cheaper, to keep her doing the full loads, than the single Fairlie. 3802. Would the cost of working the double Fairlie on the easy grades be 70 per cent, greater than the single Fairlie ? —Certainly not. 3803. What would the actual difference be ?—The double Fairlie did run 29,453 miles at a cost of 9'o4d. per mile. That did not include repairs; so that it is altogether valueless as a comparative statement of cost, except that it will show you what the single and double Fairlie will do. The single Fairlie, with the same driver and precisely the same train, ran 10,606 miles at a cost of 7'67d. per mile. 3804. Do these figures apply to trains of the same weight ?—No. The double Fairlie has been taking heavy loads, and the single Fairlie was only taking the light loads I mentioned. A statement of this kind is not of much value unless it represents the mile-tons. My returns do not show the cost 26—E. 3.
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per ton hauled, which I think it is desirable to know. The double Fairlie ran 29,453 miles before the tires required turning: that was in addition to whatever miles she ran when working on the Auckland Eailway. The single Fairlie ran only 10,606 miles before the tires required turning. 3805. Do these figures refer to the same section of railway ?—These two engines were run by the same driver and on the same section of railway. The single Fairlie was at work while the double Fairlie was undergoing repairs. As the single Fairlie was not able to perform the whole duty that the double Fairlie had beendoing, I was compelled to run special goods trains to overtake the work. 3806. On full consideration of the matter, are you of opinion that the double Fairlie is the most economical engine, considering the number of tons hauled ? —lf you keep her doing the full amount of work she is more economical. 3807. "Would she not have the advantage also in the matter of repairs, if she could run 29,000 miles as against 10,000 ?—My experience so far is, that the double Fairlie requires less repairs than the single, provided they are both well attended to. _ 3808. Do you wish to make any further statement with regard to the relative merits of these engines ? —Well, the tires of the single Fairlie required turning on one section after running 10,600 miles ; the other engine, running over easier grades, ran 17,000 miles. 3809. Can you state what is the average weight of goods per train on the Wanganui Section ?— About 20 tons net and about 60 tons gross weight. This does not include weight of engine. 3810. Have you ever been consulted as to the type of engine most suitable for your work ?—No, I do not think I have. I have only been asked to state what stock would be required for the ensuing twelve months when we were ordering stock. 3811. Mr. Clark.] Does the cost of turning the tires of the engines form a considerable element ID. the cost of haulage under the head "Locomotive Charges "?—The expense of turning the tires would be about £5 or £6. 3812. The fact of there being increased wear and tear of the wheels in the single Fairlie over the double Fairlie means increased wear and tear in the permanent way ?—Yes. 3813. Mr. Wright.'] In what proportion ?— This depends upon the speed and the rigid wheel-base. The double Fairlie rigid wheel-base is 5 feet, and the single 6 feet 9 inches. 3814. How many times can you turn the tires before you require new ones ?—You can only turn them up once. If you run them as long as they can be deemed safe for the road, and then turn them once, you have got the life of the tires. The wear and tear on the tread of the tire is very trifling : the actual wear is on the flange, owing to the sharp curves and the fixed centres of the locomotives. While the fixed wheel-base of the single Fairlie is 6 feet 9 inches, the fixed base of the double Fairlie is only 5 feet. 3815. What would be the cost of a new set of tires to each class of engine, single and double Fairlie ?—A full set of new tires costs in store—double Fairlie, £15 45.; single Fairlie, £18. 3816. Do you know whether any uniform system has been adopted in New Zealand for keeping the locomotive accounts, so as to enable one Locomotive Engineer to compare his work with that of another ? —ln the North Island I believe that the whole of the railway Managers send to the Commissioner a return similar to the one I now produce, which is very deficient in not stating the number of tons hauled. 3817. What is the cost of coal on your section of the railway ? —Thirty-two shillings and sixpence per ton at Wanganui, and 355. 9d. at Foxton. 3818. What reduction upon your expenditure would be effected if you could get coal at 13s. per ton?—At the present rate of consumption, and with coal of the same quality, I should save about xi 1,570 per year. 3819. Have you seen any returns by the Locomotive Engineers in the Middle Island, showing the relative value of native coal as compared with imported coal ? —I have seen a report by Mr. A. Smith, of Christchurch, referring to the price of native coal as compared with Newcastle coal, but I do not remember the statement itself. 3820. Mr. Clark.] Have you kept any accounts of the quantity of fuel consumed by single and double Fairlies respectively, with full loads, and on easy and heavy grades ? —I have not done so, 3821. Mr. Wright."] Can you state the cost of your section, per 100 miles, for fuel, oil, tallow, and engine-drivers', firemen's, and cleaners' wages ?—The cost of stores for the double Fairlie is -48d. per mile ; fuel, 5'82d.; drivers, cleaners, &c, 273d. The total is £3 15s. per 100 miles. The lowest cost per 100 miles is £2 13s. for any engine running. 3822. Have you any sheds for the shelter of the carriages at Wanganui ?—No; they are all exposed to the weather, except those actually in repair in the workshops. All the carriage stock is exposed. There should be sheds for them; because you varnish the carriages, and do them up in first-class order, and you have them put outside, exposed to the weather, and, perhaps before they earn the expenditure thus incurred upon them, they require doing up again. This only refers to some cases. 3823. Have you sufficient shed-room for the engines ?—No. 3824. How many are left outside ?—For want of sufficient engine sheds I have to make use of goods sheds for two engines. ' 3825. Mr. Clark.] When there is an alteration in the Wanganui Station site, and the necessary accommodation is given,_ will you not have sufficient carriage-accommodation ?—I have plenty of standing-room, but there is no covering for the carriages. The proposed alteration of site will not give any increased shed-accommodation. Besides, that would not be a proper place on which to erect the sheds. 3826. Mr. Wright.] Have any of the long six-wheeled carriages on your section been converted :nto bogies ? —No. 3827. Do you think it would be desirable to have them altered ?—The carriages are very uncomfortable and very severe on the road. 3828. Have you made any representation as to the desirability of having them altered ?—Yes ; I once requested to be allowed to alter them to bogie-carriages.
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3829. What was the reply ?—-I believe it was to the effect that they would not allow the expenditure. 3830. How long ago is that ? —lt was about September last. 3831. Have you sufficient workshop appliances at Wanganui ? —No. We are getting some workshops erected now, but there are not sufficient workshop appliances. 3832. To enable you to execute repairs with economy ?—No. Mr. W. N. BiAin, M.1.C.E., Engineer in charge of the Middle Island, sworn and examined. 3833. Mr. Wright."] What investigation of the country do you generally make before recommending any particular line of railway for construction ? —I generally go over it, and make a preliminary investigation. 3834. Do you obtain any trial-survey to show grades, curves, or the general character of the work ? —That is the usual practice. It is the proper practice ; but sometimes lines are decided on before this is done. 3835. Has any such trial-survey been made of the route from Oamaru to Naseby ?—Tes ; I went over the ground and made a special report of it in 1877. 3836. How long were you engaged in the inspection ?—Three or four days. There was a preliminary survey made by Thornton and Bull for a committee at Oamaru. I had that information also before me when I reported. 3837. At the time of your inspection, was the weather favourable for a full view of the country ? —Tes, very favourable. 3838. Are you acquainted with the country between Riverton and Orepuki ? —I have never been over that line except so far as it is in progress. In fact, lam not sure that I have been quite to the end of the present contract. This line is an old provincial line. It was taken over by the General Government in a partially-completed state. 3839. Then you never visited Orepuki? —No. 3840. Do you know the country between Otautau, Orewai, and Mararoa ? —No ; I have not been over that country. I have had a reconnaissance survey made of it by Mr. Simpson. I have seen the Five-River Plains end of it. 3841. You never visited Mararoa?—No. 3842. Are you acquainted with the route of the Otago Central Eailway ?—Tes. 3843. Throughout ? —Tes, except the plains at the top. I have not been all the way to the Wanaka from Cromwell. I have scarcely been half-way. 3844. Have you travelled from Mullocky Gully through the Gorge to Hindon?—l was over the whole of that line when I reported upon it originally, and I have since been over it. I did not follow the Gorge all the way. 3845. How did you make the journey through the Gorge of the Taieri to Hindon?—l went round by the Hindon side, and saw a part of the Gorge from there. I also went to Blair Taieri and came down the river, and saw the upper portion of the Gorge from near the Sutton. Then I saw the lower portion of the Gorge from the Mullocky Gully end. We have detailed surveys made of the line nearly all the way through from the commencement to Cromwell, except on the Strath Taieri Plain. From the commencement of the plain at the Sutton Creek contract surveys have been prepared; and again from the end of the Rough Ridge to Cromwell. Trial-surveys have also been made of the balance of the line from Strath Taieri Plain to the Rough Ridge. 3846. Tou say that you viewed the Taieri Gorge from Hindon ?—From the hills above Hindon. 3847. And also the lower end from Mullocky Gully ? —Tes. 3848. I want to know whether you travelled over the route between Mullocky Gully and Hindon in the Gorge ?—No, I did not. I did not travel up the Gorge. I, however, sent an assistant right through. 3849. Tou say the working-survey has been completed as far as Cromwell, with the exception of the Strath Taieri Plain ? —No ; a continuous survey has been made. 3850. Had any portion of this survey been made at the time you sent in your report in 1878 ? — Tes ; I think it is referred to in the report of 1878. 3851. How far did the survey extend at that time ? —My impression is, that a trial-survey had then been made nearly all the way to Strath Taieri. About 28 miles of trial-survey and 7of contract survey was made between the commencement of the line and the Strath Taieri Plain at that time; also 18 miles of contract survey between the Rough Ridge and Clyde. Pour survey-parties had been at work on the line since October, 1877. 3852. Then from Strath Taieri to Rough Ridge no trial-survey had been made at that time ?—No. 3853. Can you produce the plans of these surveys? —Tes, by sending for them. 3854. Can you produce any plan of the survey of the route between Oamaru and Naseby ? —No ; except a tracing of Thornton and Bull's plan. There was no survey made by this department of the Oamaru and Naseby line, except the portion now under construction to Livingstone. 3855. Has any survey ever been made between Palmerston and Naseby ?—Tes ; the Provincial Government made a survey. 3856. Is the plan of that survey in your possession ?—I think so. It is either in the Dunedin Public Works Office or Survey Office. It is referred to in my first report of 1877. 3857. Were the 5 miles of 40-lb. rails now being laid on the Ngapara line, to replace 28-lb. rails, specially ordered ? —No ; they were taken from stock. 3858. And to what have they been charged ?—To construction. 3859. Are the 2 miles already laid with new sleepers charged to construction also ?—Tes. We supply the materials and pay for the work, the whole being charged to construction. 3860. How long have the original 6-feet 3-inch sleepers been in use ? —Between three and four years. 3861. What has been done with the 20 miles of 40-lb. rails ordered in July, 1878, for the Ashburton branch ?—They are in the general stock. I suppose they have been drawing on them.
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3862. I wish to know where they were delivered ?—I do not know. I suppose in Christchurch. 3863. The order for these rails was telegraphed Home in July, 1878: have you any reason to suppose that they have not been delivered ? —They have all been delivered. 3864. Mr. Reid.] In your report on the Oamaru-Naseby line you recommended that the line should be taken by the Kakanui Valley. Was your examination of the country at that time sufficient to satisfy you as to whether a practicable route could be found right through to Naseby, with fair gradients?—■ Tes, from the information at my command I could calculate the gradients. The amount of tunnelling I think I took from the report of Thornton and Bull. The pass is a bad one to go through. It is very broad. Thornton and Bull did not go through the pass. They kept away to the west, and came through a very high ridge of the mountain; but it is much narrower there than in the pass itself. I think they have selected the best place to go through. 3865. If proper shipping facilities were provided at the Port of Oamaru, do you not think that, owing to the much shorter distance to be run, the country round Naseby and towards Lake Wanaka would be more advantageously served by a line to that port than to Port Chalmers ? —Yes; the route would be much shorter. I ought, however, to say that any line through the Maerewhenua Pass must necessarily be pretty high on the Maniototo Plain in order to get good gradients. And this leaves out the lower end of the plain, down about Taieri Lake. 3866. Colonel Pearce.] What staff of engineers and surveyors have you employed at present on the Otago Central line? —I think there are four assistant engineers on each. 3867. Can you, without much trouble, furnish the Commission with a list of the engineers and surveyors under your control who are employed in the field, and where they are employed ?: —'Yes. 3868. Perhaps you will be good enough to furnish us with that return ? —Yes. 3869. Mr. Wright.] In addition to what Colonel Pearce has asked for, will you furnish a full return of every man under your control employed in the office ? —I will furnish a complete return. Mr. Edwaed E. Chtjdleioh sworn and examined. 3870. The Chairman.] I understand you wish to offer some evidence with respect to the ThamesWaikato Railway ? —Yes. 3871. Wouid you state to the Commission the views you wish to lay before them ?—I believe the views of the settlers in the Te Aroha District (special settlement) have not been represented before the Commission; but I believe a deviation of the liue of railway from Morrinsville to Pairoa has been suggested. I wish to point out that such a deviation would run the line through a large and most impracticable swatnp, and cut off the whole of the Te Aroha District from any possible access to the railway. The Te Aroha settlers bought their land under the impression that the railway, when made, would certainly join the Waihou River at Omahu. The settlers urge the Commission that, if any railway is made, it should be carried along the surveyed and contemplated line. We further wish to urge that, in the interests of the district, it is absolutely necessary that the railway should be continued to Omahu, because, if it terminates at Morrinsville, it will be of no real benefit whatever to the Te Aroha Block. If the railway be continued to the river, it will bring Tauranga within one day's journey of Auckland by rail. Where the line would join the river, there is excellent ballast of the very best description —namely, broken quartz, which w^ould do for the whole railroad. The people living at the foot of the Te Aroha Mountain now have specimens of gold in their hands which have been delivered to them by the Natives within the last few weeks. The settlers are now urging the Government to place a subsidy in the hands of the Natives in order to prospect, as the Natives object to Europeans doing so. 3872. Colonel Pearce.] Is there a road from Tauranga to Omahu ?—There is a track. A road has been surveyed, but has not yet been formed. 3873. Can you travel on horseback by the track? —-Yes. Tauranga District, of which I am speaking, includes the Katikati settlement. 3874. Mr. Wright.] What is the distance from Tauranga to Omahu? —I do not know exactly; but I think it is about 15 miles. I was on the top of the Te Aroha hills a few days ago, and I could see the houses and smoke in Tauranga. I was then only 4 miles from the landing at Omahu. 3875. How far below Omahu would the deviation proposed by the Government take the line before it reached the river ? —The deviation proposed by the Government would take the line 9 miles down the river, where it is easily bridged. We thought that, with the present scarcity of money, it would be easier to carry the railway to the point originally intended, which would bring it sooner to the navigation of the river. I may say that there are now fifteen houses being erected in the Te Aroha district within sight of each other. 3876. Mr. Beid.~\ Is that near where the Lincolnshire farmers propose to settle ? —Yes.
Wellington, Monday, 12th July, 1880. - Mr. John Knowles, Under-Seeretary for Public Works, sworn and examined. 3877. Mr. Wright.'] On the 2nd June, 1880, Mr. Montgomery, M.H.R., called for a return showing the cost of construction of each section of railway and each branch railway mentioned on page 74 of the Gazette of 20th May, together with the value of the rolling-stock in use on each section and branch : can you state what reply was given to that question? —Mr. Oliver, the Minister for Public Works, was informed by the department that the furnishing of this return would employ two clerks for several months. The reason why it was necessarry that two clerks should be employed was because the Public Works books had been kept under votes, and there had not been any votes for these branch lines. The expenditure on branch lines would have to be obtained by examining the vouchers for several years past. 3878. You say that two clerks would be employed for several months: what are we to understand by " several months " ?—The vouchers for all those years would have to be gone through by two clerks; and that work—abstracting them, and so forth—would take two clerks several months—that is to say, from four to six months.
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3879. Then, would it not have been practicable to get the same information by means of four clerks in two or three months ?—Yes. The only thing is, that you could not set any clerk to work upon it. You would require to employ clerks who had some knowledge of the kind of work. Of course we should have to detach the clerks from their ordinary work. 3880. Was not the information asked for by Mr. Montgomery on the 2nd June, 1880, substantially the same as that called for by the Eailways Commission on the Bth March, 1880 ?— I believe it was. 3881. And, if it would be practicable to supply that by the labour of four clerks in two or three months, can you say why, at the expiration of four months after it was called for by the Eailways Commission, it is not now ready ?—I submitted the direction of the Eailways Commission to the Minister for Public "Works when it was received. I explained to the Minister then the difficulty of supplying the information—that our books did not show it, and that it could only be done in the way I have already described. I took Mr. Oliver's direction upon that. Mr. Oliver said :" If you cannot prepare this return you must inform the Commission when they come back that you were unable to prepare the return." . 3882. Do you not think it would have been more courteous to have informed the Chairman ot the Eailways Commission at once that this difficulty existed, instead, of keeping us in the dark on the subject for nearly three months ?—When the Eailways Commission returned, I informed them. I think the Commissioners saw the Minister upon this very matter, and he explained to you then the circumstances under which this particular return was not furnished. 3883. I want to know why the Chairman of the Commission was not informed of the difficulty until three months after the return was applied for ? Would not the ordinary business practice have induced you to send a reply to such a requisition ?—The instructions I received from the Minister for Public Works were to let you know on your return that the work could not be done. It was supposed at that time that the Eailways Commission would have reported much more quickly than it has reported ; and that a return which would take two or three months to prepare would be useless. If it had been'known or supposed at that time that the Eailways Commission would not have reported until this time, I have not the slightest doubt that some of our clerks would have been detached for the 3884. Do you think the report of the Eailways Commission was facilitated or retarded by their being kept in the dark as to what was being done about this return ? —I cannot say. 3885. Did the Minister for Public Works instruct you not to inform the Chairman of the difficulty ? —No ; but I was to explain the difficulty when the Commission returned. 3886. And you thought it of no importance whatever that they should be left in ignorance for three months as to whether or not they would get this return ?—IE there had been the^ slightest possibility of getting the return in any time within which it was supposed that the Commission would report, you would have "been informed. As I was told to inform you when you returned, you were so informed when you did return. 3887. How long did you suppose it would take the Eailways Commission to receive evidence and inspect every corner of New Zealand where a railway line was projected ? —I had no right to suppose anything. I say, it was supposed. It would have been presumption on my part to form an opinion as to when the Eailways Commission would report. That was beyond my duty or thought at all. I would like to say that, as soon as I received directions from you to get these returns, I immediately put all of them in hand. 3888. Mr. Clark.'] Did it not occur to you that, if the difficulty in preparing the return were pointed out to the Commission, it might be possible to get the return sufficiently exact for the purposes of the Commission, in a slightly modified form—that is to say, an approximation ?—I took my directions from the Minister for Public Works, who is my superior officer. I communicated with the Minister at once, and told him of the impossibility of getting that particular return. He said, "_ Well, if you cannot supply it, you cannot supply it. You cannot do an impossibility." I was directed to let the matter stand over until the Commission returned. 3889. Mr. Wright.] Up to the time that Mr. Montgomery's return was called for, had nothing been done to supply the information for the Commission ? —Yes ; that is the case. 3890. Mr. Clark.'] And that was even subsequent to the interview which the Commission had with the Minister for Public Works ? —The interview I alluded to was in June. I may say that I spoke to the Minister a second time when I thought there might be some question about the matter. 3891. When did the instructions go to the Working Eailways Department? —On the day I received your secretary's letter of 10th March. Knowing the importance of these returns, every exertion was used to furnish them ; but, with regard to this particular return, it was quite impossible to supply it. I brought the matter before the Minister on two occasions, and his directions were the same —that as soon as you came back you were to be informed. 3892. Mr. Wright.] On the 11th March you telegraphed to the Eailways Commission asking them to explain the heading of one of the schedules, " Served by a line of railway " ? —Yes. 3893. Will you produce the telegram which was sent to you in reply ? —ln reply to a communication from myself, I received the following telegram from the Commissioners, dated " Hurunui, 24th March, 1880:"— Where a railway traverses a valley, the schedule must include all land within the "watershed, properly classified. In the case of a branch line upon an open plain, lake all within ten miles on both sides, unless severed by a large river, and all the watershed within a radius of twenty miles from the terminus, but excluding all land within eight miles of the main line. The rest must be left to the discretion of the Waste Lands Commissioners. This instruction to bo applied to the schedule. 3894. Will you state when the instructions given in that telegram were forwarded to the Chief Surveyors or Waste Lands Commissioners who were called upon to furnish the information ? —lt was communicated to Mr. Blair. It was got by Mr. Blair's special direction, and it was communicated to him on the 30th March.
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3895. But Mr. Blair's was not the department which had to supply that particular information ? —It was at that time. We first of all endeavoured to get the information in our own department, and it was only when we found we could not get the information in our own department that we applied to the Crown Lands Department. 389G. In applying to the Crown Lands Department did you furnish them with the instructions conveyed in that telegram ? —I did not. 3897. I will read an extract from a letter dated 15th May, signed by Mr. Humphries, Chief Surveyor, New Plymouth. He says: "A difficult question to solve ab once arises in ' Lands calculated to contribute,' &c. The Crown Lands Commissioner and myself have found it very difficult to draw the line in making out the estimates, as lands to a very great distance from the line do or will do so to some extent. We have decided, for the purposes of the return, to fix it at from 7to 10 miles. The particularizing of the short sections of this line complicates it still more. I would respectfully submit that to me it appears that the absence of something like a limit or a general guide in the instructions of the Commission is likely to involve a great want of uniformity in apportioning the areas, and consequently values, to the various lines of railway throughout the colony, and that districts will represent more or less area than others, proportionate to the views taken by the estimators. I am, of course, aware that no rigid rule could be laid down to suit all localities, but feel that it would have been much more satisfactory if the estimators were sure of having based their calculations on a general principle." Now, I ask you whether Mr. Humphries could have written in that strain if the instructions telegraphed from Hurunui had been furnished to him ? —No. I told you candidly that it had not been done. 3898. Can you explain why it was not done ? —lt was an omission. There is no excuse why it was not sent, and Ido not wish to make any. I wish to be quite candid in the matter. 3899. The difficulty experienced by Mr. Humphries is more or less alluded to by every Chief Surveyor who has sent in a report ?—The sole blame for the omission rests upon myself, I am sorry to say. The way in which the omission occurred was this : I wrote the draft of my letter to Mr. McKerrow, Surveyor-General, on the 17th March. The telegram from Mr. Curtis was not received until afterwards —namely, 24th March. The letter to Mr. McKerrow, when fairly written from the draft, was finally dated 21st April, as the letter was kept waiting for the plans which were being prepared in the drafting department of the Public Works Office.
Wellington, Wednesday, 14th Jtjxy, 1880. Mr. J. Lawson sworn and examined. 3900. Colonel Pearce.~\ You are Commissioner of Railways for the North Island ? —Yes. 3901. The Commission first wish to take evidence from you on the subject of coal. I presume that you have given that matter your attention ? —Yes. 3902. Will you state, first of all, what coal is used in the various railways under your charge, and lay before the Commission such information as you can on the matter ?—We are using native coal exclusively in the North Island. 3903. No imported coal ?—None whatever. 3904. What coal do you use on the Auckland lines ?—On the Auckland lines we use Waikato coal, and upon all the other lines Grey coal. 3905. Prom your experience, which coal is the most economical to use ?—As regards the cost, I may say that the average price of native coal is 235. lOd. per ton, as against 365. sd. for imported coal. We have hardly had time to test the native coal as yet. It is only from the Ist January last that we have commenced its general use. 3906. Do you mean that you cannot say whether you get the same steam-power out of a ton of native coal as you get out of a ton of imported coal ? —We do not get the same steam-power out of native coal as out of imported coal. 3907. Then, although the native coal costs less per ton, it may be really dearer than the imported coal? —With your permission, I will read the opinions of the various Managers on that point, which I received by telegraph since I had notice that you wished to be informed on this matter. The question I put to them was this : —■ Ploase state, as early as possible, what is your experience and opinion with regard to the relative value of Newcastle and Grey coal for locomotive purposes. The manager at Wanganui says, — Good samples of Newcastle coal will steam very well, but make clinker in the fire-boxes, causing the frequent cleansing of the fires. Also, when running down a bank it burns away very quiekly, although every precaution is used to keep the fire back. There are various samples of Newcastle coal, some of which are much superior to others. With regard to Grey coal, if you get a fair sample, steam can easily be kept on the grades with good firemen. This coal has also the advantage, in running down a bank, of not burning away quickly, but caking and losing very little o£ its power, the fireman having merely to break it up to have a good fire. There are also various samples of G-rey coal, which vary very much, and cause us occasionally to burn more coal than necessary on account of having our fire-bars and blastpipes fixed. The difference in consumption between Newcastle and Grey coal, taken all round, is from about 5 to 7 per cent, in favour of Newcastle. The Manager at New Plymouth says,: — If I could get good Newcastle coal for same price as Brunner, I should prefer it j but I would not give a higher price. Resent contract is best coal I have had since I have been here, meeting all requirements. That was riot exactly what I wanted, and I wired back to him, — lie coal. Please read my telegram again. I want to know what, in your opinion, is the relative value of the two. For instance, how much per cent, further do you think the Newcastle coal will go ? And he answers, — Re coal. I have used very little Newcastle coal j but, from my observations, good Newcastle is about 10 per cent, better than Brunner.
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The Auckland Manager says,— We burn from 25 per cent, to 30 per cent, more native coal than Newcastle ; but the price is 7s. sd. per ton against 375., the lowest price ever paid for Newcastle. Of native coal we burn J Ib. per ton-mile, or 29 lb. per engine-mile ; but have not any statistics to compare with Newcastle coal. Native coal is quite good enough for the work, and no difficulty is ever experienced in keeping steam and pulling as much as engines can take. The Napier Manager says,' — I think that Grey coal for our purposes is not as good as best Newcastle ; but, to put it plainer, I think G-rey coal at 30s. and Newcastle at 31s. 6d. would be equal. Grey coal does not stand storing as well as Newcastle, and will not stand handling as well. This means a difference of 5 per cent, in favor of Newcastle coal. The "Wellington Manager reports,— 1. A ton of Grey coal just as received from the ship is about equal to 16 cwt. of Newcastle with the ordinary engines. 2. The Fell engines cannot be worked with Grey coal alone. 3. The mixture of one part in five of large coke with lump coal gives a fuel equal to Newcastle coal. 4. For the Fell engines the proportion of coke should be one-half. 5. By screening the small coal out of a wagon of coal, the large coal obtained will do as much duty as it would have done if the small had been left in, proving that all the small put into the fire-box is either passed out unconsumed from the fire-bars, or into the smoke-box. The mixture of brown coal or West Wanganui coal greatly improves the combustion of Grey coal by absorbing the bitumen which comes over in the form of tar. 9. The average quantity of small coal to be screened out will be 8 per cent. The small coal is worth about half the price of large. The cost of screening will be 2s. per ton. The above proportions, if correct, give the cost of fuel as follows : — Four tons Grey coal, 31s. 6d. (less 8 per cent, small, gives 3 tons 14 cwt. nearly)... ... 6 6 0 Cost of screening ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 080 One ton of coke, cheapest rate yet supplied... ... ... ... ... ... 2 9 0 Total for 4 tons 14 cwt. ... ... ... ... ... ... 9 3 0 Less value of 6 cwt. of small at half-price ... ... ... ... 0 4 6 £8 18 6 or 38s. per ton nearly : that is to say, that any price paid for good Newcastle coal less than 38s. per ton would be gain. I may add that the coal shows good duty done till the fires are forced. Of course, on a line like this, where the grades and curves are both heavy and long-continued, this cannot be helped. 3903. Mr. Wright.'] Can you give us information as to the price which has been paid in these localities for imported coal P —l may repeat what I have stated in the annual report lam just completing for Parliament :—■ The experiments with native coal for locomotive and other purposes have resulted favourably, and led to the acceptance of tenders altogether excluding importation from New South Wales since the Ist of January, 1880. The consumption of fuel on the North Island railways during the last twelve months was as follows : —
The present average cost of native coal is 235. lOd. per ton, against 365. sd. for imported coal, on equal conditions as to delivery, leaving an ample margin for difference in quality. The North Island lines are now supplied with native coal as follows : Auckland section, from Waikato mines ; other sections from West Coast mines of Middle Island. 3909. Colonel Pearce.] Have you tried the Bay of Islands coal for locomotive purposes?—No. 3910. If found suitable, would it not be much cheaper for a place like Napier than bringing coal from the Grey —they put it on board the Union steamers at 12s. to 12s. 6d. per ton ? —;The Bay of Islands Conjpany are fully occupied with the Union steamers contract. Ido not think they tendered. If they did they were higher than the others, because we accepted the lowest tender. 3911. Mr. Clark.] Have you taken any steps to ascertain by an accurate test the relative value of the coals in use in the colony for locomotive purposes ? —Not in the North Island, but such expert ments were made on the Middle Island railways. 3912. And reported upon? —Tes. Mr. Conyers mentions it in his annual report for the year ending 30th June, 1878. 3913. Do you know what kinds of coal were tested at that time ? —Such information is given in the report. 3914. Do you contemplate taking any steps to have such a test applied in the North Island?—l think the best test would be the consumption of native coal compared with the previous year's consumption of the Newcastle coal. We have made no experimental test, nor is it contemplated to do so. 3915. Then, unless some such test is made, do you not think it is a good deal guesswork as to whether one coal is better than another?—No. We should know by the consumption at the end of twelve months' use of native coal. We shall have full twelve months' use of native coal at the end of this year. We can compare that, after making allowance for tonnage, &c. 3916. Have you any record of the tonnage carried per mile ? —Tes. There will be no difficulty in getting at the approximate result.
Section. Tons. Latest Tenders for Native Coal. Imported Coal. Latest Tenders for uuctland rapier Wellington Wanganui 'oxton few Plymouth ... 3,601 1,356 2,833 1,526 400 436 s. a. 7 5 31 9 31 6 32 6 35 9 36 9 s. d. 37 0 35 0 33 9 39 6 42 9 No tender. 10,152
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3917. Do you not think it would be desirable to have a more accurate result, seeing that in certain places there is a choice of coal ?—My own idea is that this margin between 235. lOd. and 365. sd. should be ample for difference in quality. 3918. In looking at the margin at Napier, it appears to be only 3d. ? —-Yes. 3919. Mr. Seid.] Would it not be better to supply Newcastle coal in that particular section?— For that particular section, no doubt, if it is true that there is a difference of 5 per cent, in steamingpower in favour of Newcastle coal. 3920. Mr. Clark.'] But the want of an accurate test prevents you from knowing the bonus you are paying to the proprietors of the Brunner mine ? —Tes, that is true. 3921. Have you made any calculations as to the cost of laying down Waikato coal at Waitara?—^ No, I have not. 3922. Costing 7s. sd. per ton at the pit, do you not think it could be laid down at Waitara at less per ton than the present contract ? —lt would be about 14s. free on board at Onehunga. 3923. That is counting the profit on the railway-carriage?—Tes. Supposing I am right about the coal being delivered free on board at Onehunga for 14a. per ton, the price for Bay of Islands, free on board, is only 13s. to the public; then it would become a question of difference in freight between the Bay of Islands and Mauukau respectively to Waitara. 3924. But, seeing that there is a cattle trade between Waitara and the Manukau, is it not probable that the return freight would be carried at a low price ?—Possibly, but I am not aware. 3925. Even if you had information on this point, the want of any accurate test of the. comparative value for steaming purposes of the coal would make you unable to decide which was the cheapest? —Tes, it*would. 3926. Could an experiment not be conducted without much trouble, and accurate information given regarding the value, for locomotive purposes, of all the coals obtainable in New Zealand ? —Tes, I dare say it could. In making these tests you have to take into consideration the state of the roads, and other matters affecting results. 3927. Mr. Wright.] What is the net cost to the railway of carrying coal from the Waikato mines to Onehunga, exclusive of interest on the cost of the line? —The rate is 6s. 6d. per ton. I consider that it costs ss. 6d. of that amount. I exclude the interest and cost of construction. [I desire here to make an explanation: The distance from the Waikato pits to Auckland is 65 miles. A load of ten wagons, or 50 tons, at 6s. 6d. per ton, would yield £16 ss. freight, or ss. per train-mile; the average work cost iii the North Island, for year ending 31st March, 1880, was 3s. 6|d.: leaving a margin over working expenses of Is. sjd. in this case. lam here assuming that a maximum load is carried.] 3928. The cost of the coal at the mines is 7s. sd. per ton? —Tes. 3929. The coal being delivered at Onehunga at 12s. lid., if you could obtain freight thence to Waitara at 10s. per ton, representing 235. as the cost at Waitara, and adding 25 per cent, for the inferiority of the coal as compared with the Grey or Newcastle coal, that would represent 28s. 9d., as against the present contract price of 365. 9d. for Grey coal ?—Tes. 3930. So that you have no means of determining at the present moment whether the Waikato coal would not be more profitable to use at New Plymouth than the Grey coal ? —No. It appears to me that that would depend entirely upon the freight. 3931. Is there any trade between Wanganui and Onehunga in cattle ?—Tes ; the "Rangatira " steamer runs on that route now. 3932. So that in same manner it might be possible to obtain Waikato coal for use at Wanganui at an advantage as compared with the Grey coal ? —Tes. 3933. What are the conditions of contract for the supply of coal to the Auckland lines from the Waikato mines ?—The contractors are bound to supply the coal at 7s. sd. per ton, and to supply as much as we require. I produce a copy of the conditions of contract for the supply, delivery, and stacking of coals for the New Zealand railways. 3934. There is nothing in these conditions of contract to preclude you from taking 500 or 1000 tons of coal from the contractor at the Waikato, and shipping it to Wanganui or to Waitara ? —No, there is not. 3935. In making this contract with the proprietors of the Waikato Colliery, there was no stipulation on their part that they should receive any concession at the hands of the Railway Department in the shape of rates for carrying their coal over the line ? —None whatever. 3936. Then there was no obligation on the department to reduce the current tariff from 7s. Bd. per ton, as between the mine and Auckland, to 6s. 6d. ? —No. 3937. When was the reduction from 7s. Bd. to 6s. 6d. per ton made, as between these points ?— On Ist January, 1880. 3938. What was the quantity of Waikato coal carried over the line prior to that date to One^ hunga and Auckland ?—I know certainly the quantity was considerably increased by the reduced rate. I will prepare a comparative statement applying to a few months before and a few months after the reduction. 3939. The Company supplied coal at the mine at 7s. sd. per ton ? —Tes. 3940. And the ordinary tariff to Auckland was 7s. Bd. ?—Tes. 3941. So that the Company was in a position to deliver coal in Auckland at 15s. Id. per ton, securing the same profit per ton which they derived from the Railway Department on the quantity supplied them at the pit —at 7s. sd. per ton ?—Tes. 3942. Can you say at what price they were selling coal at Auckland at that time ?—Tes.* 3943. Assuming that they were selling the coal in Auckland at 20s. per ton by the truck, they
* NoTB: Before. After. Eeduction. a. d. s. d. s. d. Taupiri Coal Company ... ... ... ... ... 25 0 22 6 2 6 Waikato „ (steam) ... ... ... ... 15 6 15 0 2 3(a) (house) ... ... ... ... 24 0 22 0 2 0 (a) The Company now has an additional cost of Is. 9d. per ton, owing to bringing across the river,
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had an additional margin of profit equal to 4s. lid. per ton, over and above the profit they were receiving on the coal sold to your department ? —Yes. 3914. That being the case, was it expedient to reduce the tariff from 7s. Bd. to 6s. 6d., thus reducing the railway revenue ?—The idea of reducing the rate was to get more trade for the railway, and I believe we succeeded. I think I can show you figures which will prove that. Commissioner of Railways' Office, Wellington, 19th July, 1880. gi Bj Whilst under examination before you a few days ago on the subject of Waikato coal tariff, I explained that the rate had been reduced to Ks. 6d. per ton on Ist January, 1880, for the purpose of getting traffic for the railway, and promised to furnish you with the results. I now do so. Tons. Native coal carried over the railways between Huntley Pits and Auckland and Onehunga— Three months ending 31st March, 1880 ... ... ... ... 3,999 Corresponding period of previous year ... ... ... ... 1,676 Difference ... ... ... ... ... 2,323 I have, &c, The Chairman, Railway Commission. J. Lawson. Be good enough to furnish also the number of tons carried during the three months immediately preceding the reduction in the tariff.—o. C. Wellington, 19lh July, 1880. —District Railway Manager, Auckland. — Me coal traffic three months before and after special rate. Your telegram gives total three months ending 31st December, 1879, 5,100 tons; and three months after, 3,999 tons : that is a decrease. Is there not some mistake ? Reply quickly.—A. F. Douglas (for Commissioner of Railways) . Auckland, 20th July, 1880. — Commissioner of Railways, North Island, Wellington.— lie coal traffic. The larger amount before Christmas is correct. Due to three causes : first, failure at the Bay of Islands ; the summer weather commenced late ; and before the summer holidays coal is ordered for fear of disappointment.—A. V. Macdonald. The Manager replies that the total tonnage for preceding three months— i.e., to 31st December, 1879 —was 5,100 tonsThis shows a decrease of tonnage, under the new tariff, of 1,101 tons. In making comparisons of this kind it is customary to take corresponding period of previous year, because in nearly all cases traffic fluctuates with the season : hence I inquired for an explanation of this difference. The attached question and answer will show the result. —J. Lawson, 21/7/80. 3945. Do you think that if the rate were now increased to the original charge of 7s. Bd., that trade would fall off in consequence ? —I do. I may say that in the new rates 1 propose that this special rate of 6s. 6d. should remain unaltered. 3946. Thus increasing the profits to the Company from 4s. lid. to 6s. Id. per ton, over and above their original profit on their contract price of 7s. sd. ? —I believe that the public get the benefit of that difference. Moreover, the idea was to foster the shipping trade ; and to a great extent we have succeeded, for the Union Company's boats coal at the Manukau. They take the Waikato coal for their steamers at the Manukau. 3947. Then you think it probable that these coal companies would close their mines if they could not secure a profit of at least 6s. per ton on their coal? —I cannot answer tfiat question. I have been .told that they did not get much profit out of 7s. sd. per ton at the pit. 3948. Unless they are supplying it at a loss to the department at 7s. sd. per ton, they have at least a margin of 4s. lid. per ton on their present selling-price in Auckland ? —Tes, on your basis of 20s. at Auckland. 3949. What is the charge under the existing tariff for carrying twenty loaded trucks of grain a distance of 10 miles ?—£2o 16s. Bd. 3950. At what rate per ton per mile is that ?—Twopence per ton per mile, and 2s. 6d. terminal charge added. 3951. What does it cost the department to perform this service, exclusive of interest on capital ? The average expense is 549d., or 4s. 7d., for the Middle Island, where grain is chiefly carried. 3952. Therefore, on 20 miles the cost would be £4 11s. Bd. ? —Tes. 3953. And if you double that for running all the trucks back empty, the cost would be £9 3s. 4d.? —Tes. 3954. Then this average charge of 4s. 7d. per train-mile is made up of a very much lighter general average than 100 tons of goods ?—Tes. The average net load carried in the North Island is 17 tons per train, and the average gross load is 54 tons, exclusive of engine. I believe the average net load in the Middle Island is 36 tons on a ruling grade of 1 in 50 ; and on a ruling grade up to 1 in 100, 80 tons. 3955. Mr. Glark.~] Will a train of twenty grain-wagons not cost more per train-mile than an average train, on account of the additional weight?—Of course the weight will add to the depreciation of the stock and the road, but to what extent I am not prepared to say. 3956. Mr. Wriqht.~\ What does the department receive under the existing tariff on a train of fifty loaded trucks, running 100 miles ?—£lB7 10s. 3957. And what does that cost at the general average per train-mile ? —£22 18s. 4d. 3958. And allowing for the return of empty trucks, the cost would be £45 16s. Bd.? —Tes. 3959. Mr. Clark.'] Would the cost of running a train with fifty loaded trucks not be considerably in excess of the average ?—Tes. 3960. I mean per train-mile ? —Tes. I have told you that a heavy train is more costly, in the shape of wear and tear, depreciation, and fuel, than a light one would be. 3961. Would the loading and unloading of a 250-ton train not add very materially to the cost of train-mileage ? —lt would certainly not exceed the average cost.
Wellington, Eeidax, 16th July, 1880. Mr John Lawson, Commissioner of Eailways for the North Island —examination continued. 3962. Mr. Wright.'] What is your opinion as to the expediency of placing the New Zealand railways under a Board of Management, holding somewhat the same position as that held by a Board of Directors on an English railway? —In England the business of the railways is controlled by a 27—E. 3.
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Board of Directors. They direct all matters of policy, and the General Manager is charged with the responsibility of carrying out their decisions. They are an elective body, and occupy the position for a fixed term, retiring by rotation of two or more at a time ; so that practically they are a permanent body. In all eases they are shareholders, and the qualification for office is based upon a large pecuniary stake in the undertaking, so that they have a direct interest in making the line pay. In New Zealand the railways belong to the State, and consequently a similar body of men could not on that account perform the same functions on the same footing; therefore any attempt to follow the English practice in this colony would be difficult, on public grounds. To satisfy the community at large, the Board would have to be constituted of thoroughly unbiassed men —men of undoubted independence of action, and totally free from all commercial, agricultural, or pastoral interests. Provided an acceptable body of men, corresponding with the directors of an English, railway, were to assume the control of our railways, I am of opinion that it would be preferable to the existing political arrangement, for the simple reason that concurrent administration of a permanent character would be more likely to secure success, in a commercial sense, than the sole responsibility of a political chief, whose tenure of office is uncertain. 3963. Do you think there would be any practical difficulty in securing a Board of thoroughly unbiassed and independent men for the management of the railways ? —I think, personally, that it would be quite possible ; but I think it would be very difficult to satisfy the community at large that they were thoroughly unbiassed men, in a colony like this. 3964. Would not twelve months' experience of their administration be calculated to satisfy the community of their competency or otherwise?—l think so. 3965. Will you state your objection to placing on this Board men engaged in commerce or agricultural or pastoral pursuits? —The public might suppose that they would be biassed towards their private interests in regulating the tariff. 3966. Are you not aware that Boards are constituted for the management of other matters involving a large degree of trust and confidence being reposed in them by the public, such, for instance, as Education Boards and Waste Lands Boards?—No doubt such Boards do exist, both in this colony and out of it. Such a Board as an Education Board, however, would hardly affect pecuniary interests. 3967. Do you not think that these Boards, if they were disposed to act dishonestly, have ample opportunities of forwarding their private interests? —I do not refer to dishonesty at all in that sense. 3068. As I understand your objection, it is based solely on the ground that a Board such as I have suggested would not discharge its duties honorably in the interests of the public?—That is what I think the community at large might suppose; but it is not what I myself would suppose. 3969. Do you not think it possible that the community at large would prefer to intrust so large an estate as the New Zealand railways to the administration of a Board rather than to the sole administration of a Commissioner ?—lt is a matter of opinion ; and I think it would be very difficult to constitute a satisfactory Board. 3970. In putting this question to you as Commissioner for the North Island, I wish you to understand that I am putting the question in the abstract, and without the slightest reflection on your personal administration: Do you not think there are very much greater facilities in the hands of a single Commissioner to work the New Zealand railways to the advantage of certain individuals than would exist under the management of a Board of five or six members ? —I think I have expressed the opinion that such a Board, if acceptable to the community at large, would be preferable to the existing arrangement. I think that is a full answer. 3971. Provided such a Board can be secured, do you see any practical difficulty in their taking the management of the railways into their hands?—No, judging from results at Home. 3972. Do you think one Board would be competent to administer the whole of the New Zealand railways? —I am doubtful about that. I think it would be desirable to have one Board for each' Island. 3973. Would you experience any great difficulty yourself in administering the whole of the colonial railways ? —I would not attempt it. It is simply impossible. Whoever controls the railways should have a fair knowledge of the local wants and requirements, and be frequently on the spot; and one man could not do it. lam quite satisfied of that. 3974. What are the duties of the District Traffic Managers ? Is it not their business to report all local requirements to the General Manager ?—Tes, it is their duty to do so. 3975. And, in like manner, could they not report to a Board, whether sitting in Auckland or Wellington ? —Tes. Mr. John Bi.ackktt, C.E., Engineer in charge of the North Island, sworn and examined. 3976. Mr. Wright.'] Eepresentations have been made to the Commission as to the inexpediency of taking the Carlyle railway down the left bank of the river. The representations that were made were very forcible as to certain Government officials being interested in the land on the left bank of the river; and it was further stated that the construction of the station on its present proposed site would involve crossing the river twice, rendering necessary an additional bridge, which would be avoided by running down the right bank of the river. It would be well, perhaps, if you would state the reasons that induced you to give the preference to the site already chosen?—The site for the station and wharf at Carlyle was chosen purely with reference to engineering suitability and cheapness, and for the convenience of the town. 3977. So far as the convenience of the town is concerned, would it not have been better served by a station on the right bank ? —No, not better. The townspeople have an idea that they would be nearer to the railway station on the right bank; but that is quite a mistake, because there is a point to which all traffic must go to get to a railway station on either bank of the river, and if you measure the distance to a railway station on the right bank and a railway station on the left bank, it will be found
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that there is no difference. In fact, whatever difference there is is rather in favour of the left bank of the river. This matter Las been gone fully into, and I think that it is absurd to raise the question now, because there is so very little to be said in favour of the site on the right bank of the river. 3978. Can you state the difference in the estimated cost between a railway station on the right bank as against the left bank ? —I cannot go into exact figures at present; but, without calculating the matter very fully, I can point out a difference of £10,000 at once in favour of the left bank. However, Ido not think it is a question of cost at all: it is a question of suitability. Whatever tie community may say does not affect the engineering question. This is the third or fourth time I have had to go into this matter with different sets of people, and I feel rather strongly about it. It is an engineering question which no townspeople can settle. I knew nothing at all about any officials being interested in the matter until the question was completely settled. It is true that an official does own a section on the left bank, which he bought in the open market after the time when it was fully understood that the station would be on the left bank. Mr. Knorpp examined the line first of all, and he had nothing to do with any land there. He approved of the present site, and I afterwards concurred with him. I may read the following memorandum which I supplied to the Minister for Public Works on the subject: — Public Works Office, Wellington, 9th February, 1880. Sir, — Re Carlyle Station, Alternative Sites. The site on the left bank gives 1,000 feet of wharf-frontage, practically straight, against a frontage having an 18-chain curve on the right bank. To reach a station on the right bank the river must be crossed by an expensive bridge at a cost of not less than £6,000. The site on the left bank is so situated that there will be no waste of earthworks in the construction. The site on tho right bank will, to obtain room for passenger-station buildings, necessitate cutting into a very heavy sandhill, which it will be dangerous to meddle with; and the main part of tho station will run into a cliff over 100 feet high, which would make tho cost so extravagant that it has not been considered necessary to go into details. The Town of Carlyle is situated on a terrace above the river, and about 120 feet or more above the level of the railway, the approach to which in either case must be down Bedford Street; and each site will therefore be as nearly as possible equidistant from the town. There is no reason for adopting the site on the right bank so far as the town is concerned, and there is no good reason apparent for incurring a heavy extra expenditure, which may possibly amount to £8,000 or £10,000, to place the station on tho right bank, and to obtain thereby without doubt the most inconvenient arrangement for the department. Mr. Knorpp, the late Superintending Engineer, on his first inspection of the proposed branch line, decided on locating the station on the left bank ; and the sections and plans which have been taken on the right bank for the satisfaction of the public have had the effect of confirming his views, and of demonstrating what to a professional observer needed no demonstration —namely, the superiority of the site on the left bank botli f ram a prof essional and economical point of view. Of this there cannot now remain a doubt. The Hon. the Minister for Public Works. Jomf BIAOKETT. I still hold to that, and I do not think there can be any question as to which is the best site. 3979. Oolonel Pearce.] Do you anticipate that the river will feed the railway traffic?—Yes; I expect there will be a large import as well as export at this place. 3980. Supposing that the connecting branch were not made between the main line and the port, would there not be a much larger through traffic on the railway?—l do not know ; but at the same time there might be. If you look at the map you will see that Carlyle is the natural centre of a very fine district, and will almost certainly be a place of some importance in the future. 3981. AVould not the railway get more traffic and be in larger receipts provided there was no branch, so that the traffic would go all the way through to Wanganui by land.? —I do not think the making of this branch will interfere with the receipts of the railway. I think that Patea will be a great distributing centre, and will thus help the railway. 3982. Mr. Wriglrt7\ Then, with reference to the N"ormanby Station, representations were made to the Commission, when they were at Normanby, that it was proposed to fix the station in what was called the Extension Township, and that it would be too far removed, without any sufficient reason, from the business centre? —That came about in this way: Just about the time that people began to live in Normanby, when there were only two or three houses there, we had two or three offers of sites for a railway station. These were considered as to suitability without, I may say, any reference to where the two or three houses then existing were built. We simply took the best and most level piece of ground for the purpose ; and when it became known to the inhabitants who resided in the upper township that the station was to be 40 chains away from the publichouse which was the centre of the so-called town, they considered that it militated against their interests and reduced very much the value of their property, and they therefore begged that the quest'ion should be reconsidered. The place where they wanted a station to be erected would involve an expenditure of between £3,000 and £4,000 more than would be necessary for the station at the lower end of the town. The question is not settled yet. What complicates this question, however, is, that the Government of the day, considering that the present proposed site was the best, accepted the land from the people who offered it; and I believe some of the land adjacent was sold on the faith of the railway station being where it is now proposed. 3983. But, in accepting this site, was there any distinct contract that the Government should erect the station there ? —Yes, I think there was. I think there was a letter of acceptance in which that was stated. 3984. Are the Government pledged to put a station on. that site within a given time ? —Wo, not within any given time; but I am afraid it would follow as a matter of fairness on the opening of the railway. 3985. What is the length of the site reclaimed for the Grahamstown Railway Station ?—Twenty chains. 3986. What is the distance from the end of that site to the beginning of the Shortland Railway Station site? —Fifty-five chains. The length of the Shortland site is about 25 chains. 3987. Prom Willoughby Street, Shortland, to Williamson Street, Grahamstown, which represents the centres of the two stations, what is the distance ? —Seventy-three chains. 3988. What has been the cost of the total reclamation, including the 55 chains connecting these two sites ?—-About £16,000.
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3989. With these towns of G-rahamstown and Shortland side by side, and covering so small a space, do you not think they would be reasonably served with one station-site, either at the Shortland end or the Grahamstown end ? —I think so; and it was intended that the work should be begun in that way. 3990. What was the cause of the alteration ? —Local pressure from the inhabitants. 3991. But is not local pressure by the inhabitants of little avail unless supported by the Minister ? —It must be supported by the Minister. 3992. Then vou mean local pressure by the inhabitants brought to bear on the Minister for Public Works?—Tea. 3993. Then you are not personally responsible?—The central site was first proposed by me to be placed opposite Mary Street. No sooner was that site fixed upon as the most convenient central site for the station than the inhabitants moved for two stations instead of one, and were supported by the District Engineer. 3994. Then your judgment in the matter was overruled ? —Yes, to a certain extent; but when I found the change was earnestly desired, and was supported by the Engineer, I laid the case before the Minister, saying that it might be left to the townspeople, Harbour Board, and the Engineer to select station-sites. 3995. Did you think it expedient to spend a large sum of money in reclaiming station-sites at ■Grahamstown and Shortland before the construction of the railway up the Thames Valley was proceeded with ?—I simply acted in obedience to orders. 3996. Were any steps taken to obtain the land for the line of railway up the Valley?—We began work, under Ministerial orders, up the Thames Valley, and proceeded as far as Hikutaia; and, when we were about to cross that river, we were met by the Maoris, who put a bar upon the survey, and said we could not go on any further. That was about thirteen miles from the tewn. The matter was then referred to the Native Office, as to whether it was expedient to force the survey through or not, and the Public Works Department was requested to desist. This was in November, 1879. 3997. At that time had the contracts for reclamation at Grahamstown and Shortland been entered into ?—Yes ; they were let in February and March, 1879, respectively.
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TABLES REFERRED TO IN REPORT OF RAILWAY COMMISSION. Table 1. Railways Working Account for Twelve Months, period ending 10th January, 1880, showing the Amount of Profit or Loss upon each Section of Railway in the North Island, and upon the different Sections of the Main Line and upon each Branch Line in the South Island.
Name. o bo a 8 I ■ III 1 I Cost U >f Constn pproximai I in vP o iction w. U "K CD . II if 5! E^ori oh ta.S 1 i—I V O J g I 3 l'r< »fit. o g ill >ss. o SP-a il r 8 i si 2 +3 d I o North Island. M. ch. £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ jg £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ £ H awakawa Section 2 68 13,854 4,575 18,429 Line worked by Coal jCompa Line by Coal ! jCompa "7-323-38 322-18 323-38 Caipara „ 16 0 78,458 7,542 86,000 5,174 5,155 99-63 19 "022 5,174 99-63 19 ■022 Auckland „ 98 0 726,000 89,000 815,000 58,117 41,421 71-27 16,696 2-05 58,117 71-27 16,696 2-05 ... I ... 593-03 422-66 593-03 Napier „ 65 0 329,296 40,704 370,000 26,564 19,042 71-68 7,522 203 26,564 71-68 7,522 203 408-67 292-95 408-67 Wellington „ 45 0 461,800 52,200 514,000 33,688 26,885 83'92 6,803 1'32 33,688 83-92 6,803 1-32 748-62 628-29 748-62 iVanganui ,, 92 0* 545,800 53,200 599,000 39,346 25,855 6571 13,491 2-25 39,346 657! 13,491 2-25 427-67 281-03 427-67 S'ew Plymouth Section 22 Of 163,200 17,800 181,000 6,568 6,017 91-61 551 -304 ' 6,568 91-61 551 •304 298-54 273-50 298-54 Middle Island. 9,258 4,841 52-31 4,417 2-03 1157-25 605-37 i 3-reymouth Section ... 8 0 216,880 4,417 2-03 1157-25 iVestport „ I 19 0 214,321 3,040 3,624 119-17 584 584 ! -272 160-00 190-73 ■272 160-00 kelson „ 20 0 133,936 7,161 6,181 86-30 9S0 "731 9S0 •731 358-05 309-00 358-05 Pieton „ 18 0 163,679 5,004 4,579 91-51 425 -259 ! 425 •259 278-00 254-39 278-00 3hristchurch , 127 0 1,450,020 215,165 161,333 76'04 50,832 3'50 50,832 3-50 1670-50 1270-34 1670-50 Damaru „ 102 0 793,896 81,663 603,354 73'90 21,309 2'68 | 21,309 2-68 800-62 I 591-70 800-62 Dunedin „ 115 0 1,488,967 157,911 115,331 73-03 42,580 2-85 42,580 2-85 1373-14 1002-88 137314 "nvercargill „ 170 0 | 709,269 70,329 56,379 80-16 13,950 196 13,950 1-96 413-70 331-64 413-70 Dxford Branch 22 0 <5 ,£! .3 a 43 o S a o S3 M m Q P o '■§ a I a 79,389 5,597 5,357 9571 240 0-30 240 0-30 254-41 243-50 254-41 Syreton „ 21 0 66,696 2,860 4,255 180-29 1,895 1,895 2-84 112-38 202'62 2-84 112-38 iouthbridge Branch ... 25 0 116,889 ! 11,455 8,482 74-04 2,973 2-54 2,973 2-54 458-20 339-28 458-20 Springfield-White Cliffs 42 0 !■ 117,751 10,213 7,840 76-76 2,373 2-01 2,373 2-01 243-17 186-57 243-17 Branch 26 0 85,760 9,396] 6,516 68-28 2,880 3-36 2,880 3-36 861-88 23600 361-38 i.lbui-y Branch (Vaimate „ 4 0 14,785 2,196! 1,919 87-38 277 T87 277 1-87 549-00 479-75 549-00 Duntroon ,, 21 0 43,998 6,405J 4,290 66-98 2,115 4-81 2,115 4-81 305-00 204-28 305-00 ,, 15 0 79,851 4,016 4,177 104-01 161 0-20 267-73 278-46 161 0-20 267-73 Jhag Point Branch 2 0 -17 810 42 239 569-05 197 1-10 21-00 119-50 197 1-10 21-00 Walton Park „ 3 0 17,840 197| 731 371-06 534 ... 65-66 243-66 534 65-66 5utram ,, 9 0 42,718 2.812 3,149 136-20 ! 837 1-96 256-89 349-89 837 196 256-89 Lawrence ,, 22 0 194,059 7,596! 8,563 112 73 P67 0-49 345-18 389-23 P67 0-49 345-18 liverton-Otautau Branch j 29 0 170,894 3,463 2,454 j 70-86 1-009 059 1-009 0-59 119-41 81-62 119-41 ! at 10th January, 1880, 94 miles 57 chaim at 10th January, 1880, 32 miles 76 chain: .3. *At tAv ycrage. Actual lengtli opei verage. Act ual length ope: ». S. 28—E. 3. E. Wi Chief Accountant, 1 HITAKEE, Railway Department.
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Appendix I.—Table 1. Cost of Open Railways to Ist April, 1880.— (Approximate.) NORTH ISLAND.
Cost of Open Railways up to 31st March, 1880, including Valuation of Provincial Lines.—(Approximate.) MIDDLE ISLAND.
Name of Railway or Section of Railway. O h 1 iisi 111 p I o flo.So s, a ° In o ell 6 I o Q Remarks. Cawakawa — Kawakawa to Taumarere... M. ch. 2 68 £ 13,854 £ 4,575 £ 18,429 £ £ 18,429 £ 6,466 [aipara to Waikato — Riverhead to Helensville ... 16 31 78,458 7,542 86,000 30,498 116,498 7,109 Auckland to Ohaupo Vellington to Napier— Spit to Eopua ... Vellington to Woodville— Wellington to Featherston 96 29 64 4 45 52 726,000, 329,296 461,800 89,000 40,704 52,200 815,000 370,000 514,000 110,412 20,000 84,722 925,412 390,000 598,722 9,603 6,089 13,115 Includes wharves at Kaipara and Helen sville. Includes £45,000 for Auckland reclamation, not at present essential for railway purposes ; also wharves Onehunga, Mercer, and Newcastle ; also shops and terminal stations for whole series of Auckland Railways. Includes cost of railway wharf, part reclamation, and sum for terminal station. Includes cost of Wa.nganui reclamation wharf. £17,000 liabilities on Foxton wharf and station, in addition to this sum, is charged against Johnsonville-Foxton. Average cost per mile. "oxton to New Plymouth— Foxton to Kai I wi Stratford to New Plymouth 95 8 33 33 545,800 163,200; 53,200 17,800! 599,000 181,000 28,500 11,500 627,500 192,500 6,598 5,761 Total 353 65 2,318,408 265,021 2,583,429 285,632; i2,869,061 8,109 (#.) The amounis in this (b.) The amounts in this ;eneral works, the use of whii jommenced. column re column n ;h would sprcsent spresent be com; he expei: ;he estirt ion to tl iditure on works which have been ii mted cost, when completed, of the he whole line, including the portio use during the preceding financial year>pened lines, including all terminal and is under construction and those not yet j. p. : tlAXWELL, District Engineer.
Cost of Corntri Lotion and 'olling-ato* jk. Name of Eailway or Section of Railway. Length Open for Traffic. Up to 30th June. 1879. Expftnditure during 9 Months ending 31st March, 1880. Total Cost to 31at March, I860. Liabilities on 33.at March, 1880. Total Cost and Liabilities on 31st March, 1880. Cost per Mile. CoDstruction, Permanent Way, and Buildings. Rollingstock. Total till 30th June, 1879. Jelson to Greymouth Railway— Nelson to Roundcll, and Nelson Point to Foxhill Grey mouth to Nelson Creek, and Greyjnoutli to Brunnerton, including Greymouth Harbour Works Vestport to Ngakawau Hail way ... ?ieton to Hurunui Railway— Pioton and Blenheim Section, and Picton to Opawa lurunui to Bluff Railway, with Branches—■ Main Line— Amberley to Temuka, including Ly ttelton Branch* Temnka to Palmerston Palmerston to Clinton, including Port Chalmers Branch* Clinton to Bluff ... Branches — Rangiora to Oxford Kuiapoi to Eyreton... Southbridge Branch Kolleston to Springfield and White Cliffs Opawa Branch Waimate Branch Duntroon Branch ... Ngapara Branch Brighton Road (Green Island) Branch... Outram Branch Lawrence Branch ... 'nvercargill to Kingston Railway... Western Railways— Makarewa to Kiverton Thorabury to Otautau M. oh. 19 75 7 20 18 60 16 70 126 75 100 15 114 60 82 60 <L> 1 P3 f o a 1,171,044 a O © 153,000 £ £ 127,519 190,662 205,907 161,041 1,370,467 722,111 1,324,044 357,117 £ 5,411 12,704 3,503 2,378 42,606 43,505 55,949 11,669 £ 132,935 203,366 209,410 163,419 1,413,073 765,616 1,379,993 368,780 £ 1,006 13,514 4,911 260 36,947 28,280 108,974 23,065 £ 133,936 216,880 214,321 163,679 1,450,020 793,896 1,488,967 391,851 £ 6,718 29,914 11,430 9,699 11,423 7,924 12,976 4,735 25 65 20 5 25 40 42 20 25 55 4 45 21 35 14 80 2 45 9 0 22 0 87 15 O "a 3 o 0 1-H d o $ =8 a 79,339 66,696 116,499 107,099 81,604 14,735 41,460 70,290 16,870 42,000 193,700 316,140 7,740 3,160 1,750 4,630 751 718 43 526 79,339 fi6,696 116,499 114,839 84,764 14,735 43,210 74,920 17,621 42,718 193,743 316,666 50 390 2,912 996 50 788 4,931 219 79,389 66,696 116,889 117,751 85,760 14,785 43,998 79,851 17,840 42,718 194,059 317,418 3,076 3,324 4,584 2,787 3,339 3,241 2,052 5,323 6,962 4,746 8,821 3,641 10,000 '"316 752 183,700 17 45 11 35 62,550 43,601 6,400 3,500 69,950 47,101 7,034 15,739 76,984 62,840 12,828 18,242 89,812 81,082 5,1H 7,089 Totals 817 40 5,722,351 219,816 5,942,167 259,431 6,201,598 7,58( * These sections are charged with the full 'orb Chalmers, which more properly should be cost of the termin distributed orer a] ial stations and wo: 11 the lines commui ksliops at ticating wj Christehi ith those w. : ir in Oh; irch, Lytti places. ST. Blai: irge, Mil dton, Dm Idle Ut iedin, and md, Engines
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Appendix II., Table 1. Railways Working Account for Twelve Months.— Period ending 10th January, 1880.
Expenditure. Cost per Train-mile. Cost of carrying Goods pei Ton per Mile, and Passengers per Mile of Railway, basec Name of Railway. Length. Keceipts. Wages am Traffic Department. 1 Salaries. | Fuel. Repairs and Renewals of Total. Depreciation, exclusive of Expenditure in Preceding Columns. Trainmiles Bun. Running °$££*- jExpenses. derived from Goods and Passengers respectively. Permanent "Way. RollingStock. Permanent Way. G-oods. Passengers. Xaipara Auckland Napier Wellington ... Wanganui New Plymouth Grrev mouth ... Westport Nelson Picton Christ church Section ... Oamaru ., Dunedin „ Invercargill „ Oxford Branch ... Eyreton „ Southbridge ,, Springfield-White Cliffs Branch Albury Branch ... Waimate „ Duntroon „ Ngnpara „ Shag Point „ Walton Park ,, Outram „ Lawrence ,, Riverton-Otautau Branch Miles. 16 98 65 45 92* 22f 8 19 20 18 127 102 115 170 22 21 25 42 £ 5,174 58,117 26,564 33,688 39,346 6,568 9,258 3,040 7,161 5,004 212,165 81,663 157,911 70,329 5,597 2,360 1,455 10,213 £ 2,090 18,838 7,877 11,238 9,226 2,559 3,026 1,920 2,803 2,121 87,365 25,501 54,456 20,888 2,403 571 3,749 3,435 £ 1,693 12,739 6.272 6,659 8,966 2,280 1,148 1,489 1,698 1,683 28,411 17.590 29,912 17,000 1,891 1,596 2,788 2,602 £ 111 1,573 2,344 4,582 4,482 786 169 66 771 4! 9 18,903 7,351 14,177 6,301 472 210 997 945 £ 463 6,180 1,881 3,871 3,0*7 330 481 120 883 307 11,071 4.306 8,304 3,690 277 125 586 554 £ 798 2,091 668 535 114 ! 62 17 29 26 49 15,583 5,606 8,482 8,500 314 1,753 362 304 £ 5,155 41,421 19,042 26,885 25,855 6,017 4,811 3,624 6,181 4,579 161,333 60,354 115,331 56,379 5,357 4,255 8,482 7,840 17,128 234,654 111,684, 152,890 168,359 39,812 15,554 16,450 35,358 22,447 683,561 265,829 512,671 227,854 17,089 7,595 36,077 34,178 d. 50-50 30-17 29-78 33-15 28-04 25-63 35-97 32-19 29 53 32-93 d. 21-50 12-18 11-14 9-05 8-82 1064 38-91 20-67 12-42 1602 d. 7200 42-35 40-92 42-20 3686 3627 74-69 52-86 41-95 48-95 56 64 54-49 5399 59-38 7523 134-45 56-42 55-05 d. 512 0-80 1-23 1-93 0 68 2-65 2-56 4-93 2-28 2-59 d. 1-55 0-17 036 038 0-23 069 062 066 0-71 0.98 The evidence of Mr. J. H. Lowe, C.E., Engineer for Constructed Railways, M.I., is to the effect that about 1J per cent, on the capital cost of the Railways, exclusive of Rollingstock, should be allowed for the actual wear and tear over and above the present expenditure on repairs and renewals. (See p. 96, Minutes of Evidence ; see also Mr. Allison Smith's evidence, p. 108). a ■a I— I o o o o S3 1— j o o s o I— I ■a O a g i— < 26 4 21 15 2 3 9 22 29 9,396 2,196 6,406 4,016 42 197 2,312 7,596 3,463 2,fi29 1,196 1,564, 1,091 90 85 1,075 2,76 s 970 2,363 '357 1,745 2,531 142 398 1,071 3,076 674 840 210 577 315 3 15 210 682 295 494 124 339 185 3 10 124 401 174 190 32 65 i 55 i 1 1 223 669 1,636 341 6,516 1,919 4,290 4,177 239 731 3,149 8,563 2,454 30,380 7,595 20,886 11,393 133 £70 7,595 24,684 10,690 51-37 60-64 49-34 87-99 431-38 307-29 9950 83-25 55-09 * Average. —Actual length open on 10th January, 1880 = 94 miles 57 chains, f Average. —Actual length open on 10th January, 1880 = 32 miles 76 chains. J The exact cost of carrying G-oods and Passengers per mile cannot be given, as the clearing-house system is not in operation on the North Island Railways. E. Whitakee, Chief Accountant, Kailway Department.
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Table 2. RETURN showing the Amounts Expended, the Liabilities Incurred, and the Sums Required to complete all Railways in course of Construction— (Approximate). NORTH ISLAND.
Amount Paid. Amounts Due under Contracts or Orders. Estimated Amount required to Complete. Total Estimated Cost. a .2 p CM & Total. P3 o S I 1* * I te Total. o 1 g j * \i II I | o e § i "S PI tA I <2 o o Total. Cost per Mile. Remarks. Name of Railway or Section of Railway. Length. Total. Kawakawa — Taumarere to deep water ... *Whangarei to Kamo Kaipara to Waikato — Eiyerhead to Auckland Ohaupo to To Awamutu Waikato to Thames — Waikato... Eauaeranga to Grahamstown Wellington fo Napier- — Napier to Woodville — Kopvia to Maleatoko ... ... .... Makatoko t o Tahoraiti Wellington to Woodville — Peatherston to Masterton Master! on to Opaki Wellington to Foxton — Wellington to Jolmsoiwille... Poxton to New Plymouth — Kai Iwi to Stratford M. oh. 5 40 8 0 22 45 6 20 £ 1,810 3,434 34,803 19,367 8,174 27,600 7,197 £ \ ... ... 20.800 5,876 £ 9,984 3,434 83,203 32,440 £ 10,500 17,081 39,460 11,407 £ £ 4,300 5,119 10,000 759 258 £ 14,800 32,200 40,219 11,665 £ 49,200 45,800 22,980 3,830 £ 4,000 £ 629 144 £ 49,200 49,800 23,609 3,974 £ 61,510 66,315 97,243 34,604 £ 8,174 9,119 27,600 7,197 £ 4,300 10,000 22,188 6,278 £ £ 73,984 13,452 85,434 10,679 147,031 6,517 48,079 7,693 73,023 5,306 44,935 19,644 Includes cost of a deep-water wharf. Includes £33,000, cost of a deep-water wharf. I 13 61 ! 2 23 6,923 14,135 6,272 13,195 14,135 16,700 18,600 9,128 10,000 35,828 18,600 24,000 8,000 3,000 3,200 24,000 12.200 47,623 40,735 15.400 3J00O 1 10,000 1,200 Chiefly reclamation works, Qrahamstown foreshore. ... 5 66 13 50 30,900 7,327 6,000! 10,776 3,700 1,000 40,600 19,103 7,179 2,500 3,521] 6,000 7,179| 12,021 1 7,400 89,400! ... 7,400 89,400 45,479 99,227 6,000 14,297 3,700 7,000 55,179 9,473 120,524 8,846 23 46 7 62 80,000 4,000 29,760 8,893 ! 22,652 132,412 12,893 30,100 2,000 ... j 5,148 ... | 8,152 35,248! 10,152! 6,200| | 30,200 6,200 30,200 116,300 36,2001 29,760 8.893 I 27,800 8,152 173,860 7,376 53,245 6,848 ! ... Includes wharf at Carlyle. 6 40 23,509 23,599 2,000 5.000J 3,000 10,000 60,000 60,000 85,599 5,000 ! 3,000 93,599 14,400 66 73 65,029 43,396 14,915 123,340 71,196 17,804 18,000! 40,572; 65,617 5,119 10,000 S io7,ooo| 21S,500| 7,500j j 6,000 232,000 354,725 J 68,7CO 38,915 462,340 6,910 1,431,233 7,839 Total . 182 46 291,327 3,434 148,068 68,943 j 508,338 3,434 228,723 17,081 I I 334,912 32,200 565,510| : 15,800: 14,500 1,000 7.973J ! | 587,983 I l,O85,56o| ' 203,140, 142,533 *Whangarei to Kamo, if terminated at Limeburner's Creek instead of deep water , I i 16,800 Includes cost of a wharf. ... 36 ; 315| 6,119! 10,000 K9 A.A4.1 52,434 ... ... &a,4b4 ... J. P. Maxwell.-
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Table 2— continued. RETURN showing the Amounts Expended, the Liabilities Incurred, and the Sums Required to complete all Raiways in course of Construction. —(Approximate). MIDDLE ISLAND.
Amount Paid. Amount Due ui On ider Contracts or Lers. Estimated Amou Comp] mt required to Lete. Total Estimated Cost Name of Railway or Section of Eailway. Length. o 1 . & o a PS Total. O 4 L Total. d Ph o 1 * o o I Total. o IS? a, ■i p Total. Cost per Mile. Remarks. Nelson to Greymouth Eailway — ■ Nelson to Eoundell, Bellgrove Section Greymouth to Nelson Creek, Stillwater Section Greymouth to Hokitika Eailway — M. cb. Greymouth and Paroa Sections ... 6 60 Hokitika and Hainpden Street "... 4 0) Picton to Huramui Railway — Picton to Blenheim, Blenheim Section Hurunui to Waitaki Eailway and Branches — Main Line, Waipara and Weka Pass Section ... Opawa Branch, Albury and Albury Downs Sections Upper Asbburton Branch, Ashbarton Section... Little Eiver, Akaroa Branch, Ellesmere Section Canterbury Interior Main Line, Oxford to Temuka — Oxford to Malvern Section... Temuka to Eangitata Section Waitaki to Bluff Eailway and Branches — Duntroon Branch (Section from present terminus to Village of Duntroon Ngapara to Livingstone Branch, First Section... Palmerston to Waihemo Branch, Palmerston Section Catlin's Eiver Branch, Invertiel Section Waipahi to Ileriotburn Branch, Tapanui Section Edendale to Toitois Branch, Wyndham Section InTercargill to Kingston Eailway — Lumsden to Mararoa Branch, Lumsden Section Western Eailways — Otautau to Nightcaps Line, Opio and Waicola Section Eiverton to Orepuki Branch, Eiverton Section... Otago Central — Wingatui and Hindon Sections M.ch. 3 0 0 60 10 60 1 20 16 0 *10 40 10 60 17 0 £ 6,132 4,030 14,596 9,423 32,388 9,316 8,S84 12,348 2,245 3,601 £ i 1,400 r ! 6,000 i £ I £ 6,132 4,030 15,9961 9,423 38,388 9,316 8,98i 12,348 2,245 3,601 £ 5,076 9,204 3,684 5,247 5,340 1,598 1,224 3,537 1,751 982 £ i ... 2,000 4,000 6,500 £ I ... £ 5,076 9,204 3,684 7,24? 9,340 1,598 7,724 3,537 1,751 982 £ 1,792 1,566 26,720 15,330 ! 57,272 50,086 9,292 1,115 £ 4,000 1,200 ! 13,600 15,000 14,000 23,000 £ ... ... £ 5,792 2,766 40,320 15,330 72,272 64,086 9,292 24,115 13,000, 14,800: 45,000 30,000 95,000 6.1,000 18,500 17,000 3,996; 4,583! £ 4,000 1,200 15,000j 2,000| 25,000; 14,000 6,500j 23,000! ... I ■■ 1 O ii P a CD £ 17,000 16,000 60,000] 32,000 120,000 75,000 25,000 40,000 3,996 4,583 £ 5,667 21,333 5,581 25,600 7,500 7,143 2,326 2,353 ... ... | Includes Blenheim Station. Line opened since 31st March. This refers to bridges over the Eyr< and Temuka Eivers, the onlj works in progress. £2,140 has been expended on th< Maerewhenua Bridge out of ; special vole. 0 50 ... ... 3,800 1,200 5,000 3,800! 1,200 5,000 3,125 12 0 3 0 16,981 5,474 16,981 5,474 1,307 1,307 42,019 1,219 16,000 4,000 I 58,019 5,219 59,000 8,000 16,000 4,000 75,000 12,000] 6,250 4,000 I "■ 2 40 15 40 3 70 4,489 518 7,880 4,489 518 7,880 1,242 40,000 2,537 21,500 3,242 61,500 2,537 2,269J 12.982 4,583 4,000 5,000 6,269 12,982 9,583 8,ooo; 53,500 15,000 4,000 21,500 5,000 12,000 75,000 20,000 4,800 4,839 5,161 ... i 6 0 2,248 ... 2,248 6,304 6,304 3,448 8,000j 11,448 12,000 8,000 20,000 3,333 10 40 3,651 3,651 6,104 I I 6,104 26,245 14,000 40,245 36,000 14,000 50,000, I 4,762 18,459j | 18,459 12,968 8,000 20,968 2,573 2,573 34,000 8,000 42,090J 7,000 24 0 51,684 214,4471 ... 51,684 221,847 32,260 140,365 32,260 182,365 138,056 400,367 38,000 161,000 176,056 561,367 222,000 754,179' 38,000 I 210,400 26O,C00J 10,833 6,264 Total ... 154 0 ! 7,400 42,000 964,579| ... ... Note.. —The rails in stock and to arrive are sufficient for these lines. Engineer in Charge, Middle Island. Wellington, 1st July, 1880.
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Table 3. Schedule of Proposed Railways in North Island.
Table 3. Schedule of Proposed Railways in Middle Island.
Total Estimated Cost.— {Approximate.) Name of Railway or Section of Railway. Length.' Construction and Permanent "Way. Rolling-stock. Total. Waikato to Thames— Te Aroha Te Aroha to Kniuieranga Wellington to Napier— Opnki to Woochille Woodville to Talioraiti Foston to Now Plymouth— Buimythorpe to Woodville ... Bull's Branch Taionui Branch Te Awamutu to New Plymouth M. eh. 17 20 27 50 £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. a. 69,610 0 0 123,762 0 0 47 60 12 40 348,000 0 0 80,000 0 0 14 70 3 79 3 17 125 0 139,000 0 0 20,000 0 0 8,000 0 0 1,115,000 0 0 Totals 252 23 1,903,372 0 0 Wellington, 5th July, 1880. J. P. Maxwell.
Approximate Amount Paid (if any) for Survey. Estimatt ;d Cost to complete. Total Estimate! {Approximai Cost. i.) Name of Railway of Section of Railway. Construction and Permanent Way. Boiling- T t , stock. iotaL Construction and Permanent Way. Eollingstock. Total. Nelson to Greymoutb.— Bellgrove to Slillwater Greymouth to Hokitika (portions not begun) ... Picton to Ilurunui, Blenheim to Hurunui Hui'unui to Waitaki, with Branches— Main Lino — Hurunui to Waikaii Branches — Lake Forsyth to Akaroa Ashburlon Branch .Extension East and West Coast Railway Canterbury Interior Main Line Waitaki to Bluff, with Branches — Branches — Ngapara to Livingstone (portions not hegun) Pulmorston to Waihemo (portions nofc bt jgun) Catlin's Kiver Branch (portions not begun) Kelso to Heriotburn Wyndham to Xoitois Otago Central— Nenthorn to Lake Wanaka Eiverton to Orepuki (portions not begun) Waimea to Svvitzer's ... M. 148 13 121 £ 5,000 1,000 1,000 £ £ £ 1,245,000 159,000 949,000 £ £ £ 1,250,000 1(50,000 950,000 30,000 30,000 30 10 110 85 1,000 100 2,000 300 38!,000 29,900 1,098,000 374,700 * # 385,000 30,000 1,100.000 375,000 4 6 15 9 22 100 100 200 200 30,000 22,900 82,900 36,800 89,800 # * * * 30,000 23,000 83,000 37,000 90,000 140 12 15 2,000 200 838,000 85,800 70,000 # 840,000 86,000 70,000 Totals 748 13,200 5,525,800 5,539,000 Note. —There is no permanent way nor rolling-sfa provided in the Middle Island is estimated to be sufficii >ck specially provii mt for the extensic Jed for thi m of prese; ese lines, nt lines m but the r< arked thu: )lling-stock already j #, Wellington, 1st July, 1880. Enginee W. I sr in Cha IT. Blah xge, Mi( Idle Island.
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Table 4. Return showing the Gross Annual Revenue on each Section of Railway for a Series of Five Years, or such shorter term of years as the Railway has been at work.
Section. Year. Miles Open. Gross Revenue. Gross Expenditure. Percentage of Working Expenses. Nobth Island — Ivaipara 1876 1877 1878 1S79 M. ch. 15 68 15 68 15 68 15 68 £ 2,498 3,778 3,925 4,993 £ 2,639 4,297 4,765 4,956 105-64 113-72 121-40 9926 Auckland 1875 .1876 1877 1878 1S79 8 0 45 27 45 27 86 72 96 29 10,158 22,488 21,868 37,322 52,478 8,705 19,417 17,663 29.134 41,522 85-69 86-34 80-75 7806 79-12 Napier 1875 14 0 C 5,505- | { from 10th Oct., 1874 j 12,417 21,375 25,264 27,504 C 3,559 } [from 10th Oct., 1874) 7,903 13,240 18,2,7 19,256 64-65 1876 1877 1878 18', 9 18 13 45 22 58 21 64 4 63-64 6194 72-10 70-01 Wellington 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 8 9 16 9 ]9 44 19 44 44 79 5,705 9,429 11,519 16,100 30,401 4,146 6,294 9,894 11,719 22,920 72-67 66-75 85-89 72-78 75-39 Wanganui, including Foxton 1876 23 30 < 9,941 ■) ( Foxton tram j 8,540 15,041 35,172 10,878 109-43 1877 1878 1879 34 58 51. 79 85 42 7,791 15,016 22,614 91-23 99-83 64-30 Now Plymouth 1876 11 13 f 1,834 ) [ 8 months ) 2,6)2 4,930 6,267 f 2,191 \ I 8 months ) 3,271 5,075 5,612 119-47 1877 1878 1879 11 13 19 73 19 73 123-81 102-93 89-55 Middle Island — Greymouth 1876 7 50 ( 1,063 ] [ 3 months ) 7,921 8,763 8,852 ( 884 } (, 3 months ) 4,347 5,738 4,724 83-16 1877 1878 1879 7 50 7 50 7 50 54-88 65 48 53-37 Westport ltW 10 0 ( 859 1 I from 5th Aug., 1876 ) 1,383 2,687 833 97-05 18f8 1879 18 29 18 29 1,749 3,428 156-50 127-59 Nelson 1876 20 0 f 2,531 } [ 5 months ) 6,210 6,189 7,111 ( 2,304 \ \ 5 months J " 5,490 5,904 6,029 91-03 1877 1878 1879 20 0 20 0 20 0 88-42 95-38 84-78 Picton 1876 18 0 ( 3,516 } ( 7i months ) 5,731 4,991 5,271 ( 3,083 ) i, 7i months j 5,166 5,074 4,841 87-68 1877 1878 1879 18 0 18 o 18 0 90-35 101-66 91-85 R. Whitakee, Chief Accountant, Railway Departin< mt.
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Table 5. Return showing Acreage and Description of Land which would be served by, and which would be calculated to contribute either Passenger or Goods Traffic to, each line of Railway constructed, in course of construction, or proposed.
Crown Lands. Native Land3. I Freehold. Total. Population. Name of Railway or Section of Railway. Description oi 1 a 1 1 ( Remarks. Acreage. Assessed Value. Acreage. Estimated Value. Acreage. Estimated I Acreage . Value. ; s Value. 1875. 1878. I 1 Bay of Islands, j Kawakawa line (in course of construction) Whangarei County Whangarei-Ka-rno line (in course of construction) Agricultural (estimated) ... Open pastoral ,, Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Minerals, coal Keclaimable swamps Agricultural ., ; Open pastoral Bush, timber Bush, fencing and firewood Minerals, coal Minerals, limestone Reclaioaable swamps Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, timber Bush, fencing and firewood Minerals, building stone ... Waste, sandhills ... Eeclaimable swamps Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, timber Bush, fencing and firewood Minerals, coal Waste, swamps, sandhills, &c. Eeciaimable swamps Agricultural Open pastoral Eeclaimable Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, timber Bush, fencing and firewood Minerals, gold Waste, swamp Eeclaimable swamp Open pastoral Bush ... I, OOO 3.230 2,400 2,500 800 7>7 24 6,000 500 21,087 1,000 £ ... [not procurable 500 7,5°° ... i,3°° i ,900 2,580 £ 7,607 50c 3,750 325 950 1,290 4,000 5oo j 1,800 I I £ I, OOO 33,660 500 9,900 unknown i 6,500 125 2,600 7.7H 900 9,700 3,080 21,087 I , OOO 500 10,296 38,502 85,956 500 13,315 77, '5* 200 £ 5' unknown 579 692 905 I Open pastoral land means land that is capable of being made so after clearing and sowing. If ote A.—Agricultural and pastoral lands include those capable of being made so. ... ... I Newmarket to Helensville (in course of con- j struetion) 500 TO, 2<j6 62,112 10,015 63.232 200 j about I £222,751 5,45° 17,694 2,800 13,920 5,45° 8,847 2,800! 3,480 ... 3,000 6,150 500 junknown 4,4041 See Note A. ... -Auckland to Te Awamutu (con- j structed) 2,400 257.208 52,359 1,200 79,000 3,200 I J 24,480! 800 io, 228 49,975 nil. 200; 11,098 26,760 12,172 800 50,124 200 4,000 267,436 '02,334 1,200 124,545 4,200 23,000 96,838 153,000 2,000 89,452] 15 ,000 20,000 17,500 44,000 2,950 20,367 3,400 43,694! 6,000] 30,000 6,000 ) 46,666 > 70,000 > ' 233,334 See Note A. 8,525 ... Hamilton to Te j Aroha (in course | of construction) \ Thames to Te Aro- j La (in course of construction) 83,838 130,000 45.545 I, OOO 23,000! 13,000; 23.OOOJ 2,000 9,345 12,772 unknown 4.400 34, 500 1,000 9,345 56,275 5,000 ... 23,832 15,000 35.000 2,950 6,8oo! ... 437 1 ,210 I See Note A. 1 9,000 9,417 10,000 ... 8,000 26,894 6,000 30,000 6,000 24,400 122,000 }- 128,627] 4,5°° 9>4>7 5,ooo! Exclusive of Grrahamstown and Shortland. ■•• ... New Plymouth to Stratford (constructed) > 622,000, 17,600 88,oooj ] 47,5oo! 4,666 23.334 ] 739,50° 1. i
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Stratford to Ha- I wera (in course of construction) bS HaweratoWaverley (proposed) Waverley to Waiy totara (in course of construction) 03 Opunake Branch (proposed) Waikato to Taranati (proposed) Napier to ICopua (constructed) Open pastoral Bush ... S7,72O^ 346.400 10,600 ) 2! , «6o ") , I 86^40;] l6l>5°°| 6,000] 24,000 j 45,ooo ; 23,22O i 8,000 > 7O,O00| 127,990] j 373, 000 Agricultural 10,370 ■48.473 I 144,124! 5,128 2OjOOO 8,050 2,280 80,0001 376,670 i Open pastoral Bush ... 8'-H] 8,;oo 12,5401) >: > T' 32A] 244,000 50,000 20,000 800 1 19,7601 3 2 >'4° ] 19°. s00! '"I Open pastoral Bush ... Bush ... 9.5°° 28,500 500,000 30 ,ooo| 90, oool ;55o>°oo 1 j 318,500 Agricultural Open pastoral Bash, building timber Bash ... Waste, swamps ... Seelairnable swamps Mountainous 283,947! 1,845,418 409,401, 858,196 6>345! 47,400 37,904- 122,754 1, ooo| 2,620! 7,SGo ... ! 10,089; 3.783 1,276! 6,580, 78,610 66,033 7',863 102,310 ! 19.749 68,340 2,000 io,n6 82,683 185,024' '37,549! 1 521,800 ! 27.37° 1184,854 227,403 ... 2,221,951 1,047,003 127,860 326,336 The value of Native lands it is impossible to estimate. Note. — Blocks proclaimed under Government " Native Land Purchase Act, 187 7," have been included under the heading " Crown Lands." The area of limestone country in this district is so large tbat at the present time no special value can ba attached to it. Wellington to Masterton (nearly completed) ... j ... ... 144,720 18,078 3O.348 13.263 38,208 31,341 ! ... i 1 i Masterton to Woodville (proposed) Eoxton to Wanganui (constructed) Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Mountainous Mineral, gold Eeelp.imable Open pastoral Bush ... Mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Bash ... Mountainous Waste, sandhills ... Beclaimable Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Waste, sandhills ... Eeclaimable Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Mountainous Waste, sandhills ... Reclaimablo 5i,oooh 162,000; > 1,800,000 66,000! j ... i 64 , 300i ) + } 94.3,000 39,000 j J'tOi^' ... I 242, oooH 8o,5ooj j 321,000! 6,coo 1 j* 3.929,ooo 3,000 J 68,000 1 41,000! 18,000 -1,730,000 5oo| j 3,000 J 1,000' 14,000! ' 284,500 33.000,) 30,0001 150,000 117, 000; ) o 83,000) 8S'°°° I9,OOOJ 2,5OO ... ! ... 2 S 2,OOO 1 38,OOOJ 435.O00 ... j ... 2%t\} 3oi. 000 44,000! 5,500 2,2OOj 275 4,000 63,000 24,0001 4,000 73,000 ... 9,000 52,000 69,000 4,000 500 8,000 17,000 61,000 700J 26,000: 186,000! 50,000! 12,000 219,000, 120,000' 104, 5°°: ! SS.000 ■207,000 83,000 19,000 68,000 ,364,000 38,000; 251,000 |i32,5°o ;594.2oo; 38,800* 53,7°° I 5.7OO 76,000 I 58,230 ■158,000 5,800 3,000 15,000 ! 33 >5°° 185,000 19&,000 20,000 i 7. ooo] k >- 2,297,000 2,500 > 1,609,000 n M I }■ 4,509,845 4.304 ... j 63. 5,120 7,602! ... 2,878! 9.8i8j 1801,565! i36,37s! 7.3" About 60,000 acres gold field reserve are included iubush and pastoral. Wanganui to Patea (constructed, in course of construction, and proposed) Wellington to Foxton (Wellington to Johnsonvilie in course of construction j remainder proposed) Picton to Opaiva (constructed) 230 5OO 79,OO0 55,OOO 4,600 600 500; 7°; 80,000' 50,500! 182,000 J 3.9491 6,109! Crown lands include educational and recreation reserves ; freehold include landa on deferred payment; Native, lands under negotiation. No exact information can be given with respect to the area of lands containing minerals of economic value. Return of sheep, cattle, and horses is for the whole Provincial District of Marlborough. Antimony, limestone, and indications of coal. I \- 2,098,690 90 I 5OO I,5OO 5OO I,O00 22,OOOJ ) 161, oool) 93,000 ... 19,000 120,000 35.000 20,000 7,000 ... I 94,000 57.ooo! I 227,000; |> 767,^00 j 1,6451 M35! 535.899 62,408; 10,841 ... 2,500 7,000 I ! Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Mineral... Seclauaabls swamps ! 88,187 -\ 244,246 £ 649,246 44,121 ) 675,537 186,900 525,000: 296,900 98,0551 60,900 114,6oo| " 88,187 9>9.783 [569,121 98,055 114,600] f 1,133,046 3.493 799.902 8,176; 3,758 i 60,900 ... ! I
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Table 5— continued. Return showing Acreage and Description of Land which would be served by, and which would be calculated to contribute either Passenger or Goods Traffic to, each line of Railway constructed, &c.— continued.
Freehold. Crown Lands. Natiye Lands. Total. Population. Name of Railway or SectioD of Kailway. Description of Land. Keuaarli3. Acreage. Assessed Value. Acreage. Estimated Value. Acreage. Estimated Value. Acreage. Value. 1875. 1878. £ £ £ . £ \ Opawa to Blenheim (constructed) Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Mountainous Mineral Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Reclaimable swamps Mountainous 6, 300 325,607 2,3°°' t 333.512 315,200 25,000 114, 6ooi 56,500 78,800 9,400 ... 6,300 540,807 27,300 114, 600 56.5oo 108,200 1,003,994 10,000 4.3°° 63,760 t 421, 712 2,874 1 ... 21,200 Blenheim to Conway River (proposed) 108,200 337,2081 1 ... 21 ,200 For a distance of seventy miles more or less this section passe3 through a limestone formation, which is being quarried extensively at the Arnuri Bluff, at Kaikoura, and at Flaxbourne. There is also indication of coal in the valley of the Clarence. Quantities of minerals are known to exist; also lead and silver ores, copper, slates, &c, within a few miles of the railway, but area not determined. 1 1 523.48; r 666,786 10,000 4.300 63,760 166,650 6,250 ] 690, 137 I ,IO2 ... 6,250 Nelson to Foxhill (constructed) Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood 7S.ooo| 10,000 6,000 10,000 900,000 100,000 60,000 50,000 10,000 30,000 ... 75,000 10,000 26,000 70,000 goo, 000 100,000 70,000 80,000 10,000 9, 000 1,000 1,000 20,000 60,000 Foxhffl to Bellgrove (in course of construction) Agricultural Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, waste, reclaimable, mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building ... Bush, fencing and firewood Mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, gold leases Mineral, coal leases Reclaimable Mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, gold leases 10, coo 1,500 500 No 120, 000 15,000 2.500 information 2,000 ... 1,000 12,coo 1,500 500 12,000 121,000 15,000 2,500 3OO 3,000 400 '5° Bellgrove to River Owen (proposed) 28,000 17,000 56,000 75° 800 107,000 43,000 20,000 30,000 80,000 180,000 15,000 15,000 165,000 21,500 10,000 15,000 135,000 60,000 2O,5OO 30,800 8o,OOO 198,000 17,000 20,000 l8o,OOO 109,500 47 ,000 io,75°| 15,800 65° 25O 3001 See note above. 14,000 500 800 See note above. Xdttle G-rey Junction to River Owen (proposed) 18,000 2,000 5,000 15,000 1,240 300 27,000 2,000 15,000 135,000 7>5°° 11,250 82,500 162,000! 9.5°° 18,750 97.5oo 2.35° 8,000 800 5°° ... Arnold Junction to Little G-rey River (proposed) 15,35° 2,400 9>5°° ... 23.02.S 2,400 14,250 2, OOO II5OOOO 77,000 3,000 I 4, OOO: 56, oooi 2,000 57>75o 1,500 10,500 28,000! 2,000 ... 1,500 2,000 1,150,000 94,35O 5,4OO 24,5OO 56,7OO 2,00Oj 82,275 3,9°° 25.5°° 28,525 1.545 3,000 1,400 400; See note above. 1,000 700 ... 75° 52 5 400 ... ... ... ... ... I
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223
Arnold Junction to Lake Brunner (proposed) Westport to Ngakawau (constructed) Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral ... 8,000! 4,000 I 17,000] 8,500 ... ... 8,000 4,000 17,000 8,500 100 Agricultural Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, coal leases Mineral, gold leases Reclaimable Mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, gold, coal, &c. Waste, sandhills ... Waste, swamps and lakes ... Reelaimable swamps Mountainous 2,000 500 8,168 3,oool 16,000 16,000 750! 16,000 16,000 5001 10,000 7,5oo 600 600 j 70,000 60,600 600,000 600,000 4,000 150,000 150,000 94,OOO 880,700 880,700 2,000 118,560* 8,000 28,O0O I7,92O I7,92O 200,000 50,000 960 960 18,960 19,960 16,500 16,750 10,500 8,000 1,620! 3°° 5° See note above. Hokitika to Arthur's Pass (proposed) 47,620 4,000 94,000 2,OOOj 4.474 600 600 70,000 652,094 664,474 154,000 154,000 978,700 978,700 120,560 8,000 28,OOO 17,920 I7,92O 200,000 50,000 Population of Westland District. 4.474 21,898 4,000 3,°°° 600 4,000 4,000 * The value cannot be estimated. ... ! 1 ... j Ditto ... Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber Minerals, gold, coal, &c. Waste, sandhills ... Reclaimable swamps Mountainous ... ( 25,262 4,000 24,442 2,000 Proportion of the above « 4o,oooj 54,5521 54.55 2 | 4,000; 3,000! 3,000; 24,442 65,ooof 65,000^ 2,000 108,000 £ 1,600 1,000 1,000 11,000 2,750 1,470,000' 54,000 81,000 400,000 1000000 375,000 |374>5°° 1,975,000; 10,000 20,000 308,000! 239,000 119,500 44,000 ... I dthin tic 4 ,2O0| I ... I <o miles on 4,200 i either side of the 1 84,or 4 98,752 7,000 7,000 92,942 92,942 110,000 1,600 1,000 1,000 11,000 2,750 •ailway line .— t This timber is assessed by the Railway Committee at a net value of £5 per acre, total £325,000. J Value cannot be estimated. ... 3.5°° 3.5°° Albury Branch ... Open out limestone and building stone. ChristchurchAmberley (part of main railway line and Waikari and Hurunui Extension) Sheffield and White Cliffs (branch line) A gricultural Open pastoral Mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Mountainous 210,000 100,000 225,000 77,000 264,000 1,551,000 1,100,000 775,000 374.5°° 235,000 1,995,000 316,000 427,500 44,000 S45 8.733 2,000, 11,440 620,000 3°3.9°° i,39° 15.780 1,100 6,73° Assessed value of land in boroughs in connection with this line of railway: —Rangiora, £150,999; Kaiapoi, £96,492. ... I ... I Agricultural Open pastoral Bnsh, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mountainous 150,000 130,000 3,000 4,000 1,200,000 io,oco 20,000 650,000430,000 215,000 30,0001 2O,OOOi 20,000 20,00Oj 10,000 430,000 160,000 1,220,000 560,000 865,000 3,000 30,000 24,000 40,000 229,000 611,832 6,529,160 85,000 230,000 100,000 470,000 530,000 390,000 4,000 32,000 14,000 12,000 166,000 778 2.95 2 | 383,75° 3,86o 1,810 These branches open out coal fields, building stone, and fireclay. Lyttelton-Temuka (main line) Mount-Somers Branch Railway 600,000 41,000 90,000 50,000 4,000 3,000 229,000 6,500,000 10,000 20,000 164,000 44,000 66,ooo| 450,000 10,000 20,000 150,000 480,000 240,000 32,000! 12,000; 11,000 20,000 229,000 10,000 44,000 10,000 480,000 1,832 9,160 29,897 48,i8o| 468,510 19.55° 11,230 (§) ... 297 801J 212,540 1,920 44° See Notes A, B, C. 11,000 166,000! ... 166,000! ... (§) Assessed value of land in borougbs in connection ' Note A.— At present no value can be attached to the Crown landi Note C.—" In the branch railway known as the Rakaia-Methven (prr 20 ; ooo acres of this will gravitate to the Mount Somera Branch Line.' ivith thi; 3 bush, I rate) I 1 1— i!xtrt 1 line of railway : Christchurch, £2,847,354; Sydenham, £588,809 ; Lyttelton, £319,667 ; Ashburton, £121,408. mt if opened by rail it might be worth from £1 to £5 per acre. Note B.—Will, if continued, open out a coal field and limestone, lave included land upon which the proprietors are empowered to levy a special rate, though I am of opinion that the traffic from let from Chief Surveyor's Letter accompanying return.
E.—3,
Table 5— continued. Return showing Acreage and Description of Land which would be served by, and which would be calculated to contribute either Passenger or Goods Traffic to, each line of Railway constructed, &c.— continued.
224
Description of Land. j Freehold. Crown Lands. Acreage. Assessed i Acreage .j Estimated " Value. j B j Value. Native Lands. Total. Population. S"am3 of B lilpfaj or 8eclion of Railway, Eemarks. j I Acreage. Ey^j l** ed I Acreage. Value, 1875. 1878. Southbridge Agricultural Branch Railway Open pastoral Akaroa Branch Agricultural and proposed Open pastoral extension Bush, building timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mountainous Kakaia and Meth- Agricultural Ten Branch Open pastoral Line (private Bush, building timber company) Bush, fencing and firewood Mountainous i 112,000 8,ooo| 76,000! 5,000 10.000; ... 1 130,000 52,000 5,000! 5,000! £ 1,568,000' 7,000 80,000! 456,0001 to,coo 100,000! 50,000 8,ooo| 6,000! 715,000 208,000! 50,000 40,000! 20,000 10,000 8,000 600,000: 200,000 50,000 20,000! io,oooj 4,500 600,000! 200,000! 180,000 32,000! 20,000! 7,000 I 30,000; £ 49,000 l6,OOO 6,000 37,5°° 50,000 I35,OOO 3°9j ... 800 ... £ ! 4,635! 4,800 ... I ... ... ... ... j 112,309 7,000 8,000 86,800 5,000 18,000 6,000 130,000! 102,000 5,000 15,000 8,oooi 49,000 80,000 480,000 100,000 66,000 6,000 715,000 245,500 40,000 20,000 4,226 i»5" 317 4,695 2,375 2,0701 189,830 66,290 53,85O IO,I5O 7,960 35OI 4,57° 2,105 5»o Assessed value of land in Borough of Akaroa in connection with this line of railway, £87,088. Kote A.— At present no value can be attached to the Crown lands bush, but if opened by rail it might be worth from £1 to £5 per acre. Will, it is stated, when extended, open up coal. Will open out splendid limestone, and, it is also slated, coal or lignite. ... ] '" 1 ... "Waimato Branch j Agricultural and proposed J Open pastorcl extension i Bush, building timber j Bush, fencing and firewood Temiika and Ox- | Agricultural ford (proposed) ! Open pastoral : Bush, building timber j Bush, fencing and firewood I Mountainous West Coast pro- | Agricultural posed railway j Open pastoral line ! Bush, fencing nnd firewood I Mountainous Cheviot proposed j Agricultural railway line j Open pastoral IOO,OCOj 50,000 2,000! 2,OOo| IOO,O0Oi 50,000 4,000 5,000 700; "So 4,2°°, 800: 100,700! 100,000 2,080 6,500 100,000 230,000^ 4,000! I 2,OOoj 1 604,200 250,000 20,800 600,000 335,0°° 32,000 20,000 30.000! 5O4 1,600 191,110 120 220 gee Note A. 8l2 ',5l6 261,580 1,0701 1,100 ... 5,000: 25,000, 200,000 1175,000 240,000, 430,0001 19,000! 100,000 19,000 ... I 205,000 50,000 I75,ooo| 30,0001 105,000: ... I 125,000 IIOJ "5 106,670' 900! 430 See Sote A. ... 1 113,920 ... I 30,0001 86,000 240,0001 449,000! 106 110 1,100 660 Byreton Branch Agricultural Railway Open pastoral Oxford Branch Agricultural Railway Open pastoral Bush, building timber I Bush, fencing and firewood Mountainous Temuka to Wai- I Agricultural taki Main Line Open pastoral 57,000 456,000 15,000: 5,00c! 840,000 10,000; 88,000 130,000 80,000 10,000 40,000 50,000 40,000 2,805,000 150,000 2,500 20,000 97,500 20,000 39,000 ... 57,000: 15,000! 5,ooo| 120,000: 152,300 2O,2OO| 50,500! 40,000| 330,000; 39,OOOJ 456,000 15,000 2,500 860,000 186,700 100,800 42,000 981 2,246 1,210 4,630 51,620 196,070 4,100 3,620 1,34° See Note A. 1 1,790 110,000 22,000 10,000 10,000 300 200 500 1,200 800 2,000 ... 330,000 2,805,000! 39,000 4,807 7,956 257,090 6,540 3>i°° Assessed value of land in Borough of Tiniaru in connection with this line, £700,791. ...
E.—3.
225
Waifaki to Shag Point (constructed) Shag Point, to Dunedin (constructed) Dunedin to Taieri Kiver (constructed) Taieri River to Balclutha (constructed) Balclutha to Waipahi (constructed) Agricultural Open pastoral Bash, timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, coal* Mineral, limestone Mineral, building stonef ... Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, timber Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, gold, Mineral, coal Mineral, limestone Waste, sandhills ... Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, coal* Reelaimable swamps§ Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, fencing and firewood Mineral, coal j] Mineral, limestone^ Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, timber Bush, fencing and firewood Agricultural Open, pastoral Mineral, limestone Mountainous Agricultural Mineral, limestone Agricultural Open pastoral Mineral, gold Mineral, limestone Mountainous Agricultural Open pastoral Mineral, gold Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Agricultural 111,868; 2,»OO! 60,000: 5°° 73,338| 28,215 4,400 9,700! ... 10,000. 53,45° I,2OO! 1,500: M',376! 14,400} 2,500! 1,000! 100 165,268! I 2,O0O| 3,500 88,832! 2>237,3 6°: 2,5=0; 6o,ooo| 20,000 481,000! 42,000! 2OO,OOo| 100,000 ic,oooj 534,500 1,200 5C °| 10,000 6,000 848,256 14,400 2.500 500 200 826,340 I 2,000 2,0OC 3,5°° 45,280 2,000 ... 5°° 44,000 200 1,000 1 ... 5OO I 35o| 1,000 iS,i76 3,800 500 500 20,000 113,300 8,000 22,640 2,000 15,000 44,000 200 10,000 35° 2,000 18,176 3,800 1,000 1,000 40,000 113,300 8,000 989 I 3,39' i "28 700 14,850! ... 23,73° 2,100 112,857 4 5 ,2So 2,000 2,500 5° 60,000 1,000 76,729 4,400 9,700 200 1,000 10,000 528 1,55° 1,500 3,5°° 1,500 I4i,376 32,576 6,300 1,500 600 185,268 125,300 9,000 3,5°° 89,208 69,000 68,000 20,000 50,000 20,000 60,000 7,000 5,000 2O.COO 16,900 5O,2OO 500 I9,4OO I3,2OO 2,100 97,25 = 2,252,210 22,640 2,000 2,500 1,000 60,000 3,500 504,730 86,000 200,000 100,000 200 10,000 10,000 536,600 2,500 10,000 6,000 848,256 6,300 6,000 1,200 866,340 125.300 10,000 3,5°° 534,192 34,5°° 68,000 1,000 1,158,720 50,000 84,000 30,000 14,000 5,oooj i,ooo| 72,500! 32,700 500 291,000 13,200 4,200 l63,5 25 4>523 3,812 4,463: 4,620 i84,oooj 95,218 9O,565 I 29,490 ",743 5,8i3 S,96o| 2,234 1,920 3,270 1,769 600 Kot including boroughs. * This includes coal-pit at Waikari Creek. Soil already included in agricultural freehold. f This is Otepopo Slate Quarry, and adjoining slate formation, which is of excellent quality and has been extensively worked. Mining in Waikouaiti Kiver. Extensive quarries of building stone are worked at Port Chalmers. t Mostly in Oreen Island Coal Field. § On Henly estate, reclaimable by embankment. |j Kaitaugata Coal Mine sends a large quantity of coal along this line. *ft Milton Pottery Works use good fireclay, but extent unknown. Lignite abounds in many parls of this area. 1,996 292,248 7,5 2° 2,000 Duntroon to Hakateramea (proposed) 69,000 34,5°° "376! i,loc 1,096! 153,000 4,966 1,600 Wool from Upper Waitaki comes to Duntroon and along this branch to Oamaiu. 68,ooo| 68,000 77,24«i 5o,ooo| 1 2,OOOj 1,158,720 50,000 6o,coo| 20,000 ... 1,000 115,000! Waiareka Branch (constructed) Livingstone Branch (in course of ' construction) 8,000 60,000 7,oco I 24,000 30,000 14,000 694 3,725 1,200 Large quantities of limestone are sent along this line to Oamaru for building purposes. 100 '4.797 249 80 I Maerewhenua Diggings. 5,000; ... Palmerston to Waihemo 13,900 5,200 69,500! 5,200: 20,000 3,000 45,000 1,000 3.000 27,500 500 ... I 990: 29,490 2,234 600 Mining at Waihemo. Outram Branch (constructed) 19,400 11,000 56>55° 291,0001 11,000 2,300 112,650 500 2,200 95° 40,700 2,200 1,900 1,67 1 1 47,609 S.871 1,635 Otago Central Railway, Taieri County (in course of construction) Open pastoral 35,88o 35,88o| 223,690 167,760 259-57° 203,640 2 9I | 158,270 381 160 Includes 22,500 acres University reserve and 11,000 acres educational reserve. Includes Museum endowments and pastoral deferred payment sold. Keserved for quartz - mining at Hindon. Mineral, gold 3,ooo 6,000
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Table 5— continued. Return showing Acreage and Description of Land which would be served by, and which would be calculated to contribute either Passenger or Goods Traffic to, each line of Railway constructed, &c.— continued.
226
Name of Kailway or Section of Railway, Description of Land. Freehold. Crown Lands. Native Lands. Total. Population. 'PCattle. Horses. Remarks. Acreage. Assessed Acreage . ] Estimated Value. fa j Value. Acreage. Estimated " Value. Acreage. Value. 1875. 1878. Otago Central Railway, Maniototo County Otago Central Railway, Vincent County Lawrence Branch (constructed) Agricultural Open pastoral Mineral, gold Mineral, coal Agricultural Open pastoral Bush ... Mineral, gold Mineral, coal Agricultural Open pastoral Mineral, gold Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber ,, fencing or firewood ... A gricultural Busli, building timber ,, fencing or firewood ... Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber ,, fencing or firewood ... Mineral, gold ,, building stone Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber ,, fencing or firewood ... Mineral 53>100 100 i3>7°° ... | ... 112,280! ... 106,200 "' 1 200 51,800 '10,275 ... 336,840 207,900 590,800 7.5°°; 1,900 126,800 1252900 121,600 4,000 500 9,000 12,656 1,000 25,000 2,000 3,000 260,600 295,400 15,000 1,900 126,800 501,160 60,800 8,000 2,500 18,000 35.840 25.3 12 4,000 25,000 4,000 3,000 ... ... ... ... £ 261,000' 590,800^ 7>5°° 2,000 162,600: 1,266,600 121,600 4,000 500 121,280 35. 84o 12,656 78,670 25,000 2,000 5,000 40,336 68,080 15,600 380,000 535,000 20,000 25,000 366,800 295,400 15,000 2,100 178,600 60,800 8,000 2,500 354.84° 35,840 39 2.34O 25,000 4,000 5,000 121,008 136,1 60 15,600 1,095.000 450,000 40,000 37.5°° 2,255 3,566 3,642 779 380,694 574,009 76,283 147,682 3,933 5,892 4,9°7i i,346 2,000 1,884 655 Gold field area represents ground actually worked, being worked, or in immediate vicinity of works. Coal fields include land leased and in vicinity of them. Lignite is to be found in some part of the area. Ta^anui Branch (in course of construction) 77,670 388,340! ... I i,742 Catlm'a River Branch (in course of construction) Gore to Invercargill (constructed) 2,000 40.336 5..000 2,000! 121,008 10,000! 124,880 15,600 45,000 200,000 40,000 15,000 ... ... i 640 1,449 73,l62 1,880 500 Gold, Switzer's, acreage impossible to estimate. Lignite, Mataura, impossible to estimate. Building stone, Waimea Plains. ... 350,000 215,000 ... 1,050,000, 250,000 62,440 15,600 30,000 320,000 20,000 10,000 1,280 5,228 15,000 ... 22,500! ... I Invercargill to Kingston (constructed) ... ... I ... 1,600 930,000 650,000 40,000 45,000 3° 300,000 200,000 1,500 900,000 250,000: 2 2O,OOO| 200COOOJ 25,OOO I5.OOOj 100 30,000 400,000 50,000 30,000 32 320,000 2,200,000 14,620 Gold, Wakatipu District, alluvial and in quartz. Area and valuo impossible to estimate. Limestone (for burning) at Woody Knoll, Taringatura Downs. Ditto. Limestone (suitable for building) in Waimea Plains at Castle Rock. Ditto, Copper lode at Moka Creek, Lake Wakatipu. Ditto. Lignite in Waimea Plains, Wakatipu District. Ditto. Mountainous included in pastoral column. Riverton being a seaport town it ie probable that the Orepuki Gold Fields traffic will not materially increase the ... 10,000 ... 15,000: 25,000 25,000 ... I ... ... ... Invereargill to Otautau (constructed) Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, fencing or firewood ... 150,000 90,0001 5,000' 450,000! iio,ooo| 10,000, 30,000 200,000 10,000: 45,000 40,000 15,000 180,000 290,000 15,000 495,000 150,000 25,000 3,261
E.—3
227
Otautau to Nightcaps (line in progress) Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber „ fencing or firewood ... Mineral, coal 70,000 35> o0 °; 210,000' 40,000 35.ooo, 2,500 2,500 500 22,000! 20,000 5,000 3.5°o 10,000 85,000! 70,000 2,500 2,500 1,500 232,000 60,000 5,000 3»5°o 30,000 547 93.382| 2.35°i traffic on this line, except for passengers. Immense extent of good timber in Longwood Range not included in area tapped by this line, it being thought that when sawn timber is presently sent out it will be exported seaward through Riverton. N.B. —Area of land tapped is confined to blocks shown on tracing, it being thought that for many yc:n-s to come profitable saw-milling in Longwood Forest will be restricted to a belt three or four miles on oaeh aide of the line. The forest behind this, however is of immense extent. Gold, alluvial. Coal. Petroleum shale. Acreage impossible to estimate. This line will help to tap a considerable area of country near Laka Te Anau and Upper Wiiiiui. On account of distance o£ terminus, however, it is not included. Mountainous included in poatoral column. 1,000 20,000 Eiverton to Orepulsi (constructed line) Agricultural Bush, building timber Mineral, freestone say 2,000 2,000 5,000 5,000 I3.5OOJ 10! 30,000 200 2,000 I5.5°° 10 5.000 35.ooo 200 138 ... Eiverton to Orepuki (line proposed) Agricultural Bush, building timber Mineral, gold (alluvial) 2,600 65° 5.200 1,300 2,6 5 O 15,000 5,000 4,000 30,000: 5,000 9,200 34,600 373 49° 134 2.35° ... Lumsden to Mararoa (proposed line) Waimea Plains District KailAgricultural Open pastoral Bush Mineral, building stone Agricultural Open pastoral Bush, building timber „ fencing or firewood ... Mineral, building stone ,, gold, coal, &c. Agricultural Open pastoral Mineral, gold (alluvial) 35.00° 22,OOOj ... 100,000 6o,OOo| 105,000 27,500 ... 300,000 14,0001 170,000 15,000 100 25,000 45,000 2,500 21,000 40,000 15,000; 3,oooj 37,000' 30,000 7!5°° ... 1 49,000 192,000 15,000 100 125,000 105,000 2,500 1,000 2 126,000^ 67,000 15,000 3,000 337.oooJ 105,000, 7.5oo 2,000 100 1,500 38,0001 40,000 348 426 132,500 I37.OOO 1,103 2,032 way I,OOO 2,OOO ... Lignite. Impossible to estimateacreage. Large beds. ... ... 2 100 Waimea to Switzer's (proposed line) 3° 6,ooo 1,500 l8,000 14,000 160,000 20,000 40,000 30 20,000 160,000 ... ... ... Gold, alluvial. Impossible to accurately estimate acreage.
E.—3.
Table 6. Grand Summary and Recapitulation of Mileage and Expenditure in the Locomotive Department, Amberley-Palmerston Section of New Zealand Railways, for Nine Months ended 31st March, 1880, compared with Twelve Months ended 30th June, 1879.
228
o* Mileage. Fuel Consumed. Total Cost of Class of Engines. Standard Particulars respecting Classification. 1879-1880. 1878-1879. 1879-1880. 1878-1879. N.S.W. 29,310 ".497 Native. 485 JS7 CokeJ N.S.W. , 1 ■3.443 8,i66i Native. | j I2.472J £ s. d. 1,281 17 2] 367 12 5! Repairs. £ s. d. £ s. d. 2,229 JI It>! 398 11 5 843 10 7: 132 19 2 2,189 19 o' 286 14 4 1,465 18 j! 240 18 6 3,882 1 10 1 326 19 6' 2,012 16 6' 269 o 6 971 19 5 114 3 10 995 12 3' 127 17 3 230 6 4 25 4 7 718 10 4; 115 18 II Fuel. Stores. I Wages. £ s. d. 4,75o 18 7 1,304 11 5 Total. £ s. d. 8,660 19 o 2,648 13 7 Repairs. \ £ s. d. I.34I IS 3 440 19 4 Fuel- £ s. d. 1,226 2 6 998 19 7 Stores. I £ s. d. 199 17 11 i53 1 1 Wages. £ s. d. 3,203 16 s I 1,863 8 4 Total. £ s. d. S,9Ji 12 1 3.456 B 4 A D F G I 8-in. cyl., 4 wheels, coupled, 11 tons 9l-in. cyl., 4 wheels, coupled, 14! tons, Bissel truck 10^-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, 185 tons ... loj-in. cyl., 4 wheels, coupled, with 4wheeleu bogie, 2i| tons 14-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, Bissel bogie, 6-wheeled tender, 37 tons 12-in. cyl., American, 4 wheels, coupled, 2 Bissel bogies, 8-whecIed tender, 37 tons 13-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, tank engines, 28 tons io|-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, i8|tons ... 12 6 8 _4 10! 296,39s 84,861 205,390 110,808; 204,070 18-;, 709 166,349 11,919 IJ3.SI4 22,724% 19,004 49,726510,888 260 3,804 ! 6,956| 14.-049 2o, 4 66f 12,983! 43.8703 1,298 18 2 1,062 15 5 2,271 2 2 2,740 1 11 1.573 o 2 2,724 12 10 6-515 13 5 4,342 12 6 9,204 16 4 1,298 19 7 808 3 2 1,784 14 2! ! 1,208 12 4 819 11 101 2.453 o , 201 12 9 135 2 6 277 5 2; 2,328 o 1 994 S 8 i 2,478 12 4 5,037 4 <) s.?47 3 » 6,993 11 9 K 5 166,12s! 139.395 22,151 9:709 12,525 21,124 439 3 9 1,881 2 4 l,ojfo 14 3 17 9 f434 4 6 4,602 3 1 412 6 61 1,616 18 9! I 188 o 4 1,563 3 1 3,7So S S M H 60,443 55.356 7,418 1,070 5, H4| 7,265 S,8i8J S6 9 4 3 2,716 1 9 247 I 2! 714 1 7 71 IO I 1.016 5 9 3,048 [8 7 O P T IjJ-in. cyl., 8 wheels, coupled, American consolidation engines, 43I tons 3 6 88,324 22,330: ... I 60,711! 8,393| i 10,301-i 2.902 1 4'H "16 7>9 I4s 4,650 897 4 6 94 10 3 3.317 11 9 784 i 1 I 424 3 9 ... 60 19 7! 478 o o 152 9 10 3 1 « 3 8S3 4 9 M7 4 5 1,858 10 io 39= S I C, L, S i 8c 2 R. & A. F. Ry. American engines, 4 wheels, coupled, 38 tons, 11-in. cyl. 3 2 76,456 40.952 33.428 j 1,067,102 6,8911 181,926 4,505 3S.S27! 5,244! 3,675 7S,734i! J146, 784 313 18 9; ... 1,081 4 9 •I 18,847 8 6 2,231 12 9 45,024 9 9 S21 I 4 30 13 1 7,370 16 II 3=3 11 4 3S2 4 3 10,373 V x j 57 11 5 50 6 6 |i,429 1 4 672 16 9 437 10 10 ■I 15.588 8 5 1 1,575 o ro '} 9°° '4 8 34,761 18 9 I i 8-59S 6 9 15,540 6 6j 2,038 8 o d Average Cost in Pence per Wile for Haulage. Average Cost in Pence per Ton-Mile. Class of Engines. Standard Particulars respecting Classiii cation. i8JS-i87< iS> '9-1880. Ton-Mileage. Average tonnage per train-mile. 1878-1879. I879-I8S0, Repairs. Fuel. Stores Wages Total.l I Repairs. 1 Fuel. Stores Wages Total.] I IS7S-79- J 1 r 1879-80. 1878-79., ; 1879-80. Repairs. Fuel. Stores: Wages] Total. Repairs. i Fuel. 1 Stores Total. A 8*in. cyl., A wheels, coupled, 11 tons 9^-in. cyl., 4 wheels, coupled, 14-J tons, Bissel' truck 10^-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, i8f tons ... 10-^-in. cyl., 4 wheels, coupled, with 4wheeled bogie, ii\ tons 14-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, Bissel bogie, 6-wheeled tender, 37 tons 12-in. cyl., American, 4 wheels, coupled, 2 Bissel bogies, 8-wheeied tender, 37 tons 13-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, tank engines, 28 tons io|-in. cyl., 6 wheels, coupled, 185 tons ... 12 6 1-04 1-04 i-8o 2-38 ■32 '37 3-85 3-68 7-01 T41 i'53 •84 ,58 1-91 ■20 ■29 4'! 4 3'57 7-71 6-6i 8,135,231 3,736,434 S.339.8i6 43'35 I I 40'94 •04 •02 •06 ■OS '01 •01 ■14 •09 •35 •17 ■09 ■02 •08 •°4 '01 •01 ■21 ■oS '39 •'t F G 8 4 3-30 2*54 i 35 ■52 3'I7 9-40 r87 2-49 I'J4 2-52 ■29 •38 3-36 3-06 7'26 8'45 11,060,005' 4.952,465 7,019,864 64*60 SV39 j SS'34 •02 •06 ■05 ■07 •01 •01 •06 ■07 •14 ■31 •04 ■°4 ■04 °5 "01 '01 ■08 •0(1 'lit I 10 2'67 4-« j '38 10-82 2-47 3'39 •38 3'43 9-67 21,257,395 18,216,271 118-16 [ j 121-57 ■02 ■04 -01 •03 I •10 •02 j ■03 '01 'o.i ■oi) K C63 2"go '39 2-72 6-64 H j I 2-78 •32 2-69 6-5O 9,157.822: 7,480,000 60-18 ! j S8-J2 ■01 •05 '01 , •12 'oi '°5 I j "01 ■°S "!3 M 3 j 2 - 26 3-«6 ■45 4-21 I0-J8 1-07 3'O9 ■31 .-, 8-88 6,027,1941 4,158,9281 [ 137-75 I I 115-41 "02 •03 '01 ,, '10 •oil •04 •01 ■OS ■I I O P T 6 I'OI I 2*69 2' 4 8 •35 ■27 4-67 9-01 i 8-43 i 1-89 4'36 j 3'49 4'2i V34 3,393,636 291,665 2,473,048 1,085,768 49-07 42-64 ... I 58'2I •06 ■oS ■07 ■19 '01 •02 ■09 '35 ■23 ■64 •04 I I '°5 •03 •01 ■oS •IS i^-in. cyl., 8 wheels, coupled, American consolidation engines, 43-I tons ■90 II"2I ... 206-0S *0I ■01 ■oj •oH ... j C, L, S 1 & 3 R. & A. F. Ry. i'o8 ! r* ■36 ■37 3'37 7 pio 3-69 l 1-65 ! r6i 2-74 I 2'34 •64 •36 ■32 3-88 9-82! 7-Si! j 2,273,762 ; 70,285,609 592,759 1,590,429! 55.562,9471 52-7I '" I 67-70 ! S5-6o 79-81 •03 •03 ■08 '01 •II '23 "21 ■OI •13 ■05 ■oS ■02 '01 ■II ■o 9 i ■63 '■3 American engines, 4 wheels, coupled, 28 tons, 11-in. cyl. .■» i 8'2O ■07 I - i 'I0 ! ■■ I 3-43 I 64 „ „ „ il 1878-1879. 1859-1880. I 878- I 879. 1879-1880. ,1 Total CQSt iocomotivss mn . i s 'V d . I' s . d . Total mileage ... ... 1,317.235 ... 1,067,102 ning ... ... 45,024 9 9 34,761 18 9 Salaries for office staff, Ioco.\ Fuel consumed — Tons. c. q. Tons. c. q. foremen and clerks, storeCoal, N. S. W. ... 9.096 6 o ... 3,83614 2 men, coalmen, pumpers' I „ ,. J8 ,, - „ Native ... 1,791 7 o ... 7,339 4 o wages, cost of stationery, f 'Onr 5 *'ao ■* 3 Coke ... ... 262 4 o ... ... and all charges of a gene- 1 I ral character ) ■ Total ... 11,149 17 ° •■• "»IJS 'S 2 ! Total cost ...£53,365 2 o £39,720 13 3 Actual saving for nine months, '79d. per mile x 1,967,102 = £3,512 10s. lod. = 8'84 per cent. 1878.1879. 1S79-1880. 187S-1879. 18J9.188O, Average cost in pence per mile — Average cost in pence per ton-mile — Repairs ... ... i'57 ... i'65 Repairs ... ... '03 ... '05 Fuel ... ... 2-83 ... 3-34 Fuel ... ... '07 "oj Stores ... ... '37 ... '32 Stores ... ... 'oi ... 'oi Wages ... ... 3-43 ... 3-50 Wages ... ... -io ... -o<> General charges ... ... 1*52 ... i'i3 , Total cost in pence per mile 9-72 893 Total cost in pence per ton-mile '21 • jo total expenditure. Total saving for twelve months, compared at same rate, £4,566 6s. id. Aui30N D. Smith, XocomotiTe Engineer.
E.—3.
Table 6 — continued. Statement of Cost, &c, of Working Locomotives, Dunedin and Invercargill Sections, for Nine Months ending 31st March, 1880.
229
Engine Mo. Class of Engine. Total Enginemileage. Tonnage Hauled. Coal consumed, in Cwts. Cost of Repairs. Cost of Working. Cost per Mile, in Pence. Cost per Ton-mile, in Pence. Total Cost of Engine. 1 2 3 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 5 26 27 28 29 30 3i 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 4 1 42 43 44 45 5 2 54 59 80 95 96 97 103 104 105 106 in 112 O M c A 0 It Jf tt F Jl H D it it o »» - it R E it i> tt B R » 25,048 29,439 25,045 6,318 4,163 29,797 26,217 20,840 17.848 7,681 13,304 20,869 12,098 23,i/6 i,735 13,858 22,357 18,243 18,928 17,890 11,472 17.508 10,269 4,040 20,166 20,072 23.54s 22,650 20,5 s 5 I9.736 16,746 10,773 16,682 4,433 I7,37O 15,081 20,807 19,275 22,661 18,273 23,'94 22,052 22,739 11,980 9,752 8,613 18,100 25.384 2?,747 16,744 3,868 4.977 344 2,959 18,103 15.044 2,394 1,180,648 2,038,931 1,608,494 1,928,190 1,619,1 M 799,368 766,952 322,040 340,286 284,757 1,392,208 57.947 467,183 5.SO.442 708,560 821,332 I,126,l6l 1.053,167 1,442,740 863,124 340,843 449.778 1.339.' °7 1,524,502 i,5°6,974 1,319,800 1,373.491 1,106,531 336.'93 406,736 196,662 51,682 5'6,494 696,563 963,427 533.642 599.'44 809,890 629,582 926,619 4.3°S 4.945 4.95O 677 470 5.483 4,981 3,456 3.051 ',4'3 2,436 3.253 1,852 3.755 35't 2,081 4.085! 3,2344 3.885 5.747i 3,5?6i 5>496i 3,383 I,225i 4,616| 5,'39 5,826! 6.5'7i 5,647 5-7964 5.869f i,93o 2,853* 79'i 2,721! 3,47°i 3,64 'f 3,2.34i 3,707 3,483* 3,6405 3.45'i 3.&4oi 1,662 i,6joj 9 6 7 i 3,2031 6,129! 4.8.S9 3,803! ',673i 2,013! 179 1,308 3.229i 4,883! 418 £ s. d. 87 3 2 no 8 3 49 19 10 127 1 1 3 16 7 107 19 3 130 7 1 86 14 9 94 7 " 50 io 8 63 10 8 154 3 3 132 3 6 I 21 5 1 47 6 2 14 1 6 160 1 o 175 4 5 63 13 6 72 17 1 3" *9 7 17s 18 10 219 13 3 354 13 3 189 14 1 204 13 7 123 15 3 14c 18 6 172 14 5 93 8 7 72 11 6 109 8 1 99 ° 4 38 2 5 153 10 6 130 6 o 115 a 6 263 17 2 84 14 3 144 15 9 99 4 9 153 " 1 87 16 o 42 1 5 115 1 6 124 "3 3 218 7 9 178 8 9 74 16 10 156 11 9 58 19 2 66 o 2 75 2 7 35 4 o 53 1 11 66 6 o 44 7 6 £ s. d. 762 7 2 789 1 11 827 7 o 196 5 6 124 17 5 896 8 9 784 19 10 626 6 o 590 6 8 258 1 1 457 2 3 578 2 5 403 2 8 702 9 o 82 3 5 440 8 7 662 7 6 546 5 3 583 19 o 546 17 o 57 1 '9 7 792 1 5 510 7 1 182 16 1 663 18 5 603 o 4 653 8 o 691 7 7 658 7 7 593 13 8 563 3 6 350 12 6 551 16 8 131 13 6 556 8 8 526 3 8 643 '5 5 543 3 2 661 o o 574 6 6 675 17 2 645 *2 4 653 3 7 245 7 1 344 8 11 305 19 5 578 9 5 818 7 10 762 4 6 530 15 8 161 19 5 221 o 3 '5 9 6 127 19 9 498 ! 5 453 9 1 73 13 2 8l3 7'33 8-40 1228 7'4« 809 834 821 920 964 939 9-22 1061 7'23 17-91 7-80 883 899 8-14 8-31 1849 132 1 17-06 3>'<) 2 io'15 966 7-92 882 970 8-35 911 1O'24 9-36 919 9-80 10-44 875 10 04 789 9'44 8'O2 869 7-82 5'7 6 11 30 11-99 10-56 942 7-80 9-85 13-70 13-84 632 1 n~n 7'3° 829 11*41 '•7 •10 ■13 •12 ■13 •21 "21 '22 ■36 ■a ■45 •12 •53 ■23 •37 ■24 ■18 ■13 ■20 •16 ■20 ■37 ■45 ■14 "12 ■'3 ■15 '12 ''3 ■32 •38 '20 3'29 ■30 ■26 ■20 '33 •28 ■22 ■30 ■19 £ s. d. 849 10 4 899 10 3 877 6 10 323 6 7 128 14 o 1,004 8 o 915 6 11 7i3 o 9 684 14 7 308 11 9 520 12 11 732 5 8 535 6 2 723 14 1 129 9 7 454 i° 1 822 8 6 721 9 8 647 12 6 619 14 1 883 19 2 968 o 3 730 o 4 537 9 4 853 12 6 807 13 11 777 3 3 833 6 1 831 2 o 687 2 3 635 15 ° 460 o 7 650 17 o 169 15 II 709 19 2 656 9 8 759 o 11 807 o 4 745 14 3 719 2 3 775 1 " 799 3 5 740 19 7 287 8 6 459 10 5 430 12 8 596 17 2 996 16 7 837 1 4 687 7 5 220 18 7 287 o 5 90 12 1 163 3 9 55» 3 4 520 5 ' 118 o 8 It K F )J tt It 0 It II it JJ )t it s p 59.867 1*84 0 K 491,791 1,423,227 1,238,641 769,956 337.'36 465,712 21,204 208,169 956,969 93'.452 76,050 ■38 •16 16 '21 JJ T '"5 -I4 I"O2 •18 '3 •13 ■37 it )j tt 0 R 0 "3 District Locomotive Superintendent's Off Dunedin, 12th July, 1880. See, Alexander 1 District Locomotivi KMSTHON Superini ;endent. 30—E. 3.
E.—3
230
Table 7. Statement of Mileage run on the Ambeblet-Palmerston Section, Nine Months ending 31st March, 1880.
Months, 1879-80. Passenger and Mixed. Goods, Ballast, Shunting. Assisting. Empty. Total. July 57.979 13.705 5,837 22,832 222 417 100,992 August ... 63,56° i5. 649 6,969 24,366 43 m 110,860 September 63,934 ■ 15,029 5,695 23,686 201 6 5 4 109,199 October ... 63,974 I5.J9 1 6,326 22,851 49 456 108,847 November 64,927 H.615 7,254 23.443 35 1 399 110,989 December 64,603 14.599 7,628 23,576 178 3" 110,896 January ... 67,494 7,009 6,925 23,280 579 765 106,052 64,213 8,787 5,458 25,182 400 SS6 104,596 February ... March 61,293 12,310 4,5 6 9 26,019 178 461 104,830 March 31st 53,31° M.323 5,649 25,260 400 899 99,841 I I ■ Totals 625,287 131,217 62,310 240,495 2,601 5>i92 1,067,102 Allison D. Smith, Locomotive Eng wineer.
231
E.—3
Tabie 8. New Zealand Railways.— Ambebley-Palmeeston Section.
VEBAGE !ost per ILES or iOCOMOTIVE .EPATES or we! ve oir s em ing une, Class. Mileage. July. August. September. October. November. December. January. February, i March. I April. May. June. Mean. Remarks, i 1 ! I ■■ .__ , A C D F G K L 296,398 22,649 84,861 207,390 110,808 204,070 166,125 33.903 £ s. d. 092 687 O O IO 162 £ s. d. 0810 1 o 7 039 119 6 062 063 026 016 £ s. d. 078 062 067 0 13 11 1 7 o 076 019 022 £ 5. d. 052 038 2 3 8 069 5 4 2 090 0410 0010 £ s. d. o 5 7 078 o 12 8 o 5 10 o 14 o on o £ s. d. 0104 053 i ° ° 7 ; o .4 7 061 £ s. d. £ s. d. o 8 1 1 o 5 8 0 3 7 0 4 3 o 1 7 o 19 6 010 9 o 1 1 2 026 o 19 7 2 18 11 2 2 3 0431092! o 2 s I o 1 10 1 065 o 16 6 £ s. d. 084 099 097 1 14 7 1164 056 . - £ s. d. £ s. d. o 4 4 i o 13 8 ... 667 o 4 3 ( o 12 11 o 5 o ! o 5 10 0 18 5 i o 18 7 1 08 017 7 060 022 o 4 1 1 042 £ s. d. I 1 on £ s. d. 0810 Branch traffic and shunting. Only one engine of this class. Branch traffic. Passenger work. 041 059 078 072 ! o 9 2 ° 13 3 1 4 5 I 2 S o I o 2 o I ° 5 2 o 1 n °33 118! o 16 7 I on 4 047 o in 1 5 9 0910 0 13 10 1 2 9 ' 3 S 040 033 Mixed and goods work. Express chiefly, some mixed. Only one engine, all ballasting and shunting. 014 o 3 10 1 13 n °43 010 " M O P S 60,443 88,324 19,924 050 o 1 7 o 7 10 O O II 029 065 1 12 3 038 023 057 033 0710 038 076 030 008 046 063 on 2 14 12 10 0106 052 I o 2 8 1059 o 17 3 4 10 o I o 3 'o : o 3 s o 2 10 ' o 14 10 o 3 8 o 14 5 ! 2 O I o 15 9 jo 8 11 ' o 6 o 091 i S H 5 I OIO I 12 9 7 12 7 1 18 5 1 2 7 3 14 2 1 o 1 1 13 6 097 1 7 5 Same as F. Shunting. ... o 3 . o 4 11 094 I o 3" 8 j) Average Cost per 100 Miles for Locomotive Eepaihs for Nine Months ending 31st March, 1880. I Class. Mileage. July. August. September. October. November. December, I January,! February. March. Mean. Remarks. A C D F G J K L M O T 185,709 io,434 125,314 166,349 77.979 I73.SH '39.397 18,538 60,71 1 11,980 8,393 33.428 £ s. d. 1 3 4 o 14 10 080 O IO 2 0 10 6 1 7 8 o 3 3 064 049 324 o 1 8 £ s. d. O II II 030 0810 o 611 o 18 6 3 7 9 0 211 1 13 5 o 18 4 038 036 £ s. d. o 12 9 Oil II ° 5 5 i 4 8 ' 3 « i 12 5 o 3 it 0410 o 17 1 o 4 S £ s. d. o 14 o ° 7 3 on 1 o 13 9 0 15 6 1 13 S 1 ° 5 1 1 8 0910 o 18 9 £ s. d.; o jo 1 056 0 7 1 1 3 11 089 o 15 10 065 o o 10 £ s. d. I £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. d. 077:01111 0166 235 o 10 3 ... ... ... o 18 11 I o 3 11 046^024 0I8I1I040 090:160 39811 14 2:154:0 11 5 167:077 0710J061 042029 0811J072 015.044032002 o 5 7 - 1 1 4 ' o 15 8 o 5 11 0311J0410I049 054 o o 5 o 2 4 4 19 3 0071062 094 017 o 1 6 o 1 "^f o 2 8 £ s. d. 0166 83 '9 9 024 o 14 3 on 2 0710 024 013 2 0 3 5 2 17 S 1 4 11 o 1 9 £ s. d. ; o 16 10 : 8 17 3 Engine overhauled, Jan., Feb., March. Ni mileage. 073I Six engines to this mileage. 0 15 2 1 2 10 1 3 3 ■ 'l'en engines to this mileage. 063 Five „ ,, 084 on o o 17 o ; Transferred to Duneuin, Feb., i83o. o 10 3 I Consolidation, new. o 2 2 I R. and A. F. Co.'s Engines, Hudson's Patent. o 5 10 o 4 10 058 1 and 2 029 049 026 009 24th April, 1880. Allisoh D. Smith, Locomotive Engineer.
Table 9. COMPARATIVE STATEMENT of Tariff Charges Current on the Railways of the Australian Colonies, 1879.
NEW ZEALAND. TASMANIA. VICTORIA. NEW SOUTH. WALES. QUEENSLAND. SOUTH A' L. AND W. R. MAIN LINE. Tariff for Tariff for Tariff for Tariff for Tariff for Tariff Fun Tariff for Description. Rate per . /i Class. 1OO ISO Miles. Miles. Class. Class. 10 so 100 iso Miles. Miles. Miles. Miles. Class. 10 SO 1OO ISO Miles. Miles. Miles. Miles. Class. 10 so 100 iso Miles. Miles. Miles, i Miles. i 1 o ID SO I .1 js. Miles. en I , , ; o IO SO 1OO Miles. Miles. Miles.] 1O Miles. SO Miles. IO Miles. 5O Miles. 1OO Miles. ISO Miles. 133 Miles. I! Grain, Root Crops, &c. Wool ... Coal, in bulk Cement ... Nails, Wire, &c. Rough Castings Ploughs and Ploughshares Agricul. and Vegetable Seeds Dairy Produce ... Boots, &c, in cases Hams and Bacon Hardware Implements, agricultural... Cheese Drapery Glassware Harness Sugar... ... Beer, in bulk Fat and Tallow... Fruit, fresh Hides, &c. Iron, bar and rod Leather, in bales Meat, preserved, in cases ... Pottery ware Spades and Shovels SUine, dressed ... Vegetables, in crates Bark, in full loads Bones... Bricks... Clay, in bulk Drain-pipes Flagging Lime... Road Metal, in full loads ... Timber, sawn, single trucks Firewood Sheep... Cattle... Passengers ,., 5 Ton Bale Ton " n „ >> E H* N* C C D C B C B A B C A A A A B C D C B C B D B B N* D D N* N* N* N* N* O* K*f L* M* M* s. d. 4 2 1 o 2 o 5 10 5 o 6 8; 5 IO! 7 6; 6 8 7 t 1 6 7 6 7 6 6 8 s. d. 10 10 4 2 6 8 it) 2 19 2 '5 o 19 2 23 4 19 2 23 4 27 6 23 4 19 2 27 6 27 6 27 6 127 6 23 4 19 2 15 o 19 2 23 4 19 2 23 4 ■5 ° 23 4 23 4 8 4 8 4 8 4 6 S 8 4 8 4 8 4 4 2 ,44 1 J33 4 23 4 3« 8 s. d. 15 ° 7 4 9- 2, 3« 8. 31 8. 23 4! 3i 8 40 o] 3i 8|. 40 o; 48 4!' 40 o 3' 8 48 4 48 4 48 4 48 4 40 o 31 8 23 4 3> 8 40 o »> 8 40 o 23 4 40 o 40 o 1 11 6] s. d. 19 2 9 5 io 10 40 o 40 o >9 7 .40 o i3 2 6 | 4 o o (5 2 6 : 5 2 6 40 o 65 ° 65 o ,05 ° 52 6 40 o 29 7 40 o 52 6 140 o 52 6 |2 9 7 :52 6 j<3 7 29 7 29 7 1010 •3 ? j>3 7 ' 12 6 !?8 7 83 4 ;44 2 160 101 Agricul. Special*! 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 3 Miscel. s. d 3 o 1 o 3 o 5 o 5 0 5 o 5 ° 6 6 6 6 7 6 7 6 7 6 9 ° 9 ° 9 o 9 o 9 ° 7 6 10 o s. d. s. d. s. d. 7 3 13 617 8 245068 7 313 620 o 16 6:33 650 o 16 633 650 o '6 633 650 o 16 633 6J50 o 21 o'4i 6:62 6 21 041 662 6 25 °[5° Oj75 o 25 °5° °75 o 25 °?° °75 o 29 058 687 6 29 058 687 6 29 058 687 6 29 o s 8 6J87 6 29 058 687 6 25 °5° °|75 ° 13 626 038 6 13 626 0^8 6 13 626 038 6 13 626 038 6 13 6 26 038 6 13 626 o 38 6 13 626 038 6 1 g 6 26 038 6 13 6126 o!38 6 12 625 037 6 13 6 26 o 38 6 7 613 620 o 6 612 6 19 o 6 612 619 o 6 612 619 o 6 612 619 o 6 612 619 o 6 612 619 o 6 6! 12 619 o 27 6:52 677 6 20 1041 862 6 26 051 062 11 39 677 088 1 8 616 6 25 o 5 611 o!i6 6 A* c* I 2 2 3 1 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 s. d. s. d. s. d. s. d. 2 05 8'io 11 15 10 2 65 0J6 67 4 2 65 31 8 412 6 6 017 834 449 4 7 °2i 7|42 561 2 7 021 742 5^1 2 9 °P9 5 58 7|84 10 6 o| 17 834 449 4 9 °:29 558 7|84 10 9 o;29 5J58 7J84 10 9 °J29 5 58 784 10 9 029 5:58 784 10 9 ° 29 558 7 84 10 9 O2 9 5:58 78 4 10 9 029 5J58 784 10 9 029 558 784 10 9 029 558 784 10 7 021 742 561 2 9 029 s 58 784 10 6 017 834 4 49 4 2 o! 5 8 10 1 1 15 10 3 °j 7 5 '3 819 7 7 021 742 5 61 2 6 o«7 834 449 4 3 o 7 5113 8 19 7 9 029 5 ! 5 8 784 10 9 029 558 784 10 5 0.12 422 932 7 2 oj 5 810 11 15 10 2 o! 5 8jio 11J15 10 2 c\5 810111510 2 05 8 11o 11 15 10 2 05 810 11 15 10 3 oj 7 5 '3 8 19 7 1 6: 4 10: 9 o 13 2 3 .0 7 5 '3 8|i9 7 1 6 4 10 9 013 2 5 0,12 4^22 932 7 1 6 4 10 9 013 2 7 6:19 231 841 o ■5 °'y °73 4!98 4 A.G.2 Special Coal Spcl. 2 1 2 A.G.i A.G.i 2 1 2 2 s. d. 2 6 6 8 o 10 2 6 5 IO 5 10 8 4 3 4 3 4 8 4 5 I0 8 4 8 4 3 4 11 8 .1 8 8 4 1 5 10 4 2 4 2 3 4 4 2 5 10 8 4 5 10 8 4 8 4 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 2 6 s. d. 9 2 35 5 4 2 12 6 29 2 29 2 41 8 '5 o '5 o 41 8 29 2 4 t 8 41 8 58 4 58 4 41 8 29 2 20 10 s. d. s. d. 16 8 25 o 50 7 90 10 6 3 9 5 25 o 37 6 50 o 69 2 50 O 69 2 72 6 103 4 26 8 39 2 26 8 39 2 72 6103 4 50 o 69 2 72 6103 4 72 6 103 4 26 8 39 2 100 0150 o 100 o 150 o 72 6 103 4 50 o 69 2 41 8 62 6 35 10 46 8 26 8 39 2 35 »° 46 8 50 o 69 2 72 6 103 4 30 o 41 8 72 6103 4 72 6103 4 12 619 2 16 8 25 o 25 ° 37 6 12 6 19 2 12 6 19 2 12 619 2 25 o 37 6 [2 6 19 2 25 ° 37 6 12 6; 19 2 25 o. 37 6 8 4I 12 6 42 p 62 6 100 0J150 o Special W* Special* 1 1 1 2 2 3 2 s. d. 4 1 1 o 2 o; 4 6 4 6; 4 6! 4 6 5 9 5 9; 7 ° 5 9 7 O: 7 ° 7 o 7 o 4 6 4 6 4 6 4 6 4 6 4 6 7 ° 7 ° 2 6 s. d. '2 5 3 6 10 5 14 6 :i 4 6 14 6: 14 6 20 9 20 9 27 o 20 9 I27 o 20 9 27 o 27 o 27 q 14 6 14 6 14 6 !2 5 12 5 14 6 14 6 14 6 27 o 27 o 12 6 s. d. 22 10' 6 o 20 10 27 o 27 o 27 o 27 o 39 6' 39 6 52 o 39 6 52 oj 39 6 52 oj 52 o 52 o 27 o 27 o 27 o 22 IO 22 IO s. d. 33 3 7 9 31 3 39 6 39 6 39 6 39 6 58 3 58 3 77 o 58 3 77 o 58 3 77 ° 77 o 77 o 39 6 39 6 39 & 33 3 Zi 3 39 6 39 6 39 6 77 o 77 o 37 6 33 3 39 6 37 6 31 3 3' 3 3' 3 37 6 31 3 18 9 37 6 87 6 56 3 150 o W Sp. Sp. 2 il 3 3 2 3 3 3 4 3 3 2 2 2 s. d. 4 ° 1 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 ° 5 o 4 o 5 ° 5 o 4 o 5 o 5 o 5 o 5 10 5 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 5 o 4 o 4 o 10 o s. d. 11 o 2 o 7 6 7 6 14 7 14 7 ■ 7 6 17 6 .7 6 '4 7 17 6 .7 6 17 6 20 6 .7 6 17 6 14 7 '4 7 14 7 11 o '4 7 14 7 ■4 7 14 7 .7 6 >4 7 ,7 6 11 o 20 o '4 7 7 6 7 6 7 6 7 6 7 6 7 6 22 6 20 o 17 6 17 6 W Sp. I I I I 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 3 M M M M M M M M M M M Sp. s. d. 3 o 1 o 3 °j 5 ° 6 6 7 6 7 £ 7 6 9 o 9 o 9 ° 9 o 7 6 7 <> 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 3 o 3 o 3 o 3 o 3 o 3 o 3 o 3 o ■5 o 10 o 10 o 10 o s. d. 7 3 2 4 7 3 16 6! 16 6 16 6 1 16 6 21 o 21 o 25 o 25 o 25 o 29 o 29 o 29 o 29 o 25 o 25 o '3 6 (3 6 ,3 6 '3 6 >3 6 13 6 13 6 ■ 3 6 7 3 7 3 7 3 7 3 7 3 7 3 25 o, 20 10 20 10 20 10 s. d. .3 6 5 o >3 6 \33 6 J33 6 41 6 41 6 50 o 50 o 5° o 58 6 38 6; 58 6 58 6 50 o 50 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o; 26 oj 26 o '3 6! ■3 6 '3 6 •3 6 >3 6 13 6 13 6 13 6 SO o 41 8 41 8 41 8 s. d. 12 o 6 2 .7 6 34 6 34 6 34 6 34. 6 44 » 44 6 55 6 55 6 66 6 '66 6 66 6 66 6 55 I 44 6 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 26 o 126 o J26 o 26 o >> 2 t) J) )» )> S I0 5 i° 6 8 6 8 3 1 A B 3 3 2 1 Special Spcl. 1 A. 1 Spcl. 1 1 3 3 3 1 1 1 Special Special 10 o 20 10 10 o [5 ° 20 10 is )) 10 o 10 o 2 2 29 2 4. 8 29 2 41 8 41 8 6 8 1 27 o 27 o 27 o 52 o 52 o 25 ° 22 IO 27 o 25 O 2O IO 2 2 2 i " 10 o 1 B 2 Special 1 1 5 o 6 8 6 8 " j » 10 o !O O 10 o 3 3 D* A* A* A* A* A* B* Mis. B* Mis.* D Mis. L.S. 2 2 3 3 1* Special Special* I* 3 2 3 1 Sp. Sp. J) - }) )i 5 o 5 o 2 o 23 4 23 4 11 6 11 6 - Special * * S.T.* S.T.* S.* c* 10 o 10 o 7 <> 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 0 6 6 6 6 20 o Excptl. A 2 Spcl. 2 Excptl. 9 2 12 6 6 8 6 8 6 8 6 8 12 6 6 8 12 6 4 . 4 6 2 6 » 5 14 6 12 6 J17 6 '7 6 17 6 17 6 17 6 ■7 6 17 6 17 6 J66 6 jj 9) 2 o 2 O 2 O 2 O 2 O I O 9 > 11 6 II O; 11 6^ 8 4 67 1 58 4! 48 4 Spcl. 2 Excptl. Spcl. 2 Excptl. Ton Ton L.S. Special * O* TA F* S* C* 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 6 2 1 10 5 10 5 10 5 12 6 6 3 12 6 2O IO 20 io 25 o 20 10 12 6 " 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 o 4 ° 4 o 4 o 13 6 10 o 7 6 7 6 )) )) Truck ■3 S 8 4 10 o ■5 ° 1 3 2 6 )) S.T. S.T. S c "t 11 o o 21 O o 10 5 o 10 o 4 2 21 o 50 o 10 o 4 o; 10 o! 29 2 18 9 50 o 25 o 58 4 37 6 00 o 3) L.S 55 5 55 o 55 o Ordinary Single 22 O }' 2 6 },2 6 |37 6 I 1 8 1 1 3 9 9|2i 3132 9 1 2 6 12 0 2S o' 37 6 1 2 6 12 6 25 o 37 6 1 2 6 7 ° I 1 8 .. J 24 6 31 6 : ::: i Ordinary Return 2 1 8 8 4 16 8' |2S o 2 1 o 2 o 10; 6 3I14 3 22 o 2 1 9 8 6 :7 °j 25 o 2 III 9 5 18 9 28 2 1 8 S 6 2 I Oj 7 10 16 6 21 6 }■ 2 3 9 18 9 37 6 S'« 3 I > shor 3 mile y available <>n two ( :t lines under 10 < ;s in length. (. 13 025 o!38 o 8 6 16 6 25 o 1 f Ordinary Return ( j. Tickets not issued. 1 3 9 18 6 37 6 56 3 1 3 9 18 9 37 6 56 3 x ! 3 9 10 6 I 2 6 17 2 37 o 47 6 i Saturday Return 2 2 6 ., 6 ,25 o 37 6 2 2 2 2 6 12 6 25 ° 37 6 25 o 37 6 17 o 25 o 2 2 11 14 2 28 2 42 3 2 2 6 8 3 1 8 11 9 24 6 32 o }■ .4 12 6 37 6 I 2 1 1 I 10; 11 926 3I39 3 1 oj 7 617 026 6 1 I I 2 6 12 6 1 2 6! 12 6 25 o 37 6 I 1 8 » 2 1 8 8 4 16 8 25 °| 2 1 6 2 2 1 9| 8 6 2 in 9 5 18 9 28 2 2 1 o )J It! I .. * Haulage only. t Calculated at 2,300 superficial feet to the truck load. J Single-tier trucks. || Special rates for this mileage only being the tl IT Agricultural implements are charged at a mileage rate each according to description. a Per truck. irough distance. b At per ton. § These rates include cartage at is. iod. per ton, 7 I
E.—3
233
Table 10. RETURN showing Rates per Ton charged by Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway.
Authority: Gboe&b Didsbubt, Government Printer, Wellington. —1880.
31—E. 3.
Eates per Ton. Description. Class (English Classification). 10 Miles. 50 Miles. 100 Miles. 150 Miles. Grain, Root Crops, &c. Wool ... ... ... ' Coal, in bulk* Cement ... Nails, Wire, &c. Rough Castings Ploughs and Ploughshares Agricultural and Vegetable Seeds Boots, &c, in cases ... Hams and Bacon, loose Hardware Cheese, loose Drapery, in bales „ in cases Harness ... Sugar, refined Beer Fat and Tallow Fresh Fruit Hides ... Iron, bar ,, rod ... Leather, in bales Meat, preserved, in cases Spades and Shovels ... Stone, dressed Vegetables, in crates... Bark, in full loads Bones, loose Bricks Clay, in bulk Drain Pipes, glazed ... „ common Flagging Lime Road Metal, full loads Timber, sawn Firewood, 3-ton lots ... Passengers, Ordinary Single Special 2 Mineral Special s. d. 4 2 I i 4 2 8 4 8 4 9 2 4 2 IO IO s. d. 9 2 18 4 4 5 9 2 18 4 9 2 20 10 20 10 20 10 25 o 20 10 25 o 25 o 15 o IS o IS ° 20 10 9 2 ■S o 20 10 18 4 18 4 18 4 IS o IS ° 18 4 5 S S S 9 2 S S S 5 9 2 9 2 >er mile, plus 5 per cent, d d s. d. 13 4 26 8 7 4 13 4 21 8 21 8 26 8 13 4 3> 8 3i 8 31 8 37 6 3' 8 37 6 <r 37 6 21 8 21 8 21 8 21 8 3i 8 13 4 21 8 3i 8 26 8 26 8 26 8 21 8 21 8 26 8 8 9 8 9 '3 4 8 9 8 9 7 6 8 9 '3 4 13 4 iuty. s. d. 18 4 ■ 32 6 10 11 18 4 26 8 26 8 32 6 18 4 40 o 40 o 40 o 47 6 40 o 47 6 47 6 26 8 26 8 26 8 26 8 40 o 18 4 26 8 2 Special 3 3 4 3 4 4 I IO IO IO IO 13 4 10 10 13 4 13 4 8 4 8 4 8 4 8 4 10 10 4 2 8 4 10 10 i I 3 Special i 3 2 2 2 I 9 2 9 2 9 2 8 4 8 4 9 2 2 4 2 4 4 2 2 4 2 4 2 3 2 4 4 2 4 2 Vary from lid. to 3d. j „ 1 id. to 2d. 40 o 32 6 32 6 32 6 26 8 26 8 32 6 10 10 10 10 18 4 10 10 2 Mineral Special Mineral )> S pecial 10 10 9 6 10 10 18 4 18 4 i 2 ,, Ordinary Return >> n I > No reduction made; > Vary from single fai double single fares char rged. „ Saturday Return 2 I •e for double journey to fare and a half. » »> 2 * Private wagons. Note. —All rates include collection and delivery, except under " Mineral" and " Special.'' The rates inserted above are such as would be charged by the principal English railways between places where there is no competition, such for instance by sea or canal; but between places where that kind of competition exists a lower scale has generally to be adopted, which is entirely governed by circumstances. With respect to passenger fares, the Midland Company, some three or four years ago, revolutionized the passenger fares by doing away with the second-class carriages and reducing the first-class fares to lid. per mile, which was previously the second-class rate.
NORTH ISLAND NEW ZEALAND To accompany the Report of the Ra ilway commission 1880.
Index Plan of the MIDDLE ISLAND NEW ZEALAND To accompany the Report of the Railway commission 1880. SCALE OF NILES.
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Bibliographic details
RAILWAY COMMISSION (REPORT OF.), Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1880 Session I, E-03
Word Count
269,431RAILWAY COMMISSION (REPORT OF.) Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1880 Session I, E-03
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