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Rip It Up, Issue 144, 1 July 1989, Page 8

Eight o’clock on a Monday morning is probably not the best time in the world (London, to be precise) to be discussing politics, philosophy, religion and nervous breakdowns, but Matt Johnson of The The finds them difficult topics to avoid when discussing his new album, Mind Bomb. . .

Matt Johnson sounded like he was experiencing everything that an early Monday morning implied, but heisa man of words and when it comes to talking about his music, a man of enthusiastic but deadly serious words. The The have gone from being Matt Johnson plus session musicians to asolid four-piece band. Isthe Johnson, Johnny Marr, Palmer and

Eller quartet a transitional stage or permanentfixture for The The? “Permanentfixture. | didn't play everything on the other records — it was only on the solo album that | made about nine yearsagothat! played everything myself. The last tworecords|actually brought musiciansin. | needed them. So | workin completely the same way. Now can play live, and I've got a group, really, butithasnt changed the way I work.” Guitarist Johnny Marr s likely to be as big a drawcard o the concerts as Johnson himself. How did the collaboration come about? | “We knew each other from about eightyears ago before he formed the Smiths and before | was on CBS.

We were going to work together then, butwe didn't because we lived indifferent cities. We kind of sensed thatwe were going to work together, and it seemed like a natural coming together; he leftthe Smothsand played around with a few other bands, really I think biding his time. | realised it was time to form a group; | needed a guitarist and he was a guitaristlooking for a group—a natural collaboration. “Johnny and also David Palmer and James Eller have brought alot of spiritto the band because we're all like-minded people. There's quite a deep empathy, not only musically, but also politically and spiritually. They reinforced my own beliefs - aboutthings. : “They're all great musicians and it's areal luxury o play with people like that. They're bringing the songs to life. If's almost like alchemy, you know? We work very well together.” You've been referred fo as a poet first, musician second. How do you go about writing the lyrics2 “|like to put myself in certain states of mind when I'm writing.On previous albums | had experimented with a more hedonistic lifestyle, a lot of drinking and that, and I travelled a lotand wrote a lot while | was travelling, but on this album I just did thetravellinginside myhead. “llive inside this old department storeandsleeponthefloorand when | was writing this album | wanted a lot of solitude. | don'twatch television. And | was experimenting with meditation and taking

mushrooms — hallucenogenics and stuff and actually a lot of the lyric - writing was done like that. Just putting myselfin extreme states of mind and writing out of those conditions rather than just sitting down with pen and paper.|find | have to put my mind info quite odd conditions, really, to write them. But songs like ‘August And September’ and ‘Kingdom Of Rain’are obviously . autobiographical, about personal situations ormaybe the fruitofa personal situation | was in abouttwo years ago, buttracks like ‘Armageddon’ and ‘Good Morning, Beautiful were written under the other condition. Considering Johnny Marr's involvement in Mind Bomb, a lot of people have been expecting an album of perfect three-minute pop songs, butinstead the album seems more concerned with seven and eight minute epics... “We've got a perfect three-minute pop song with The Beat(en) Generation'.‘Giant', off Soul Mining, was about six or seven minutes and ‘Mersey Beat' was quite along one offthe last album, so it's still in the tradition of the other albums in the sense that it's very diverse. Sou/ Mining had This Is The Day’, which was a perfect three-minute pop song, and Infectedhad the fitle frack sothe hallmarks are still there, the diversity—l've just expanded on that.lt's a natural progression. “Ithink that Mind Bomb is the best album, butif | didn't think it was a better album than the last one, then that would time to give up—if you're

not making any progress atall. “Obviously you're up against nostalgia. Particularly Sou/ Miningis areallyimportant record fo alot of my audience, and often people like a record because it meant something to them at a personal stage in their life and not necessarily because the songsare better. Each progressive albumis better than the last. Itis .. knowitis. Lyrically and musically, it's much stronger.” The previous albums seemed to have ado ityourself, homemade

quality, with The The having beena one-man band, and your brother doing the cover art, but now with the four-piece set-up and the photography on the cover, has that quality been lost? “Iwouldn’t call it a do it yourself kind of thing, but | wrote as much of Mind Bomb as | did on the other two. Butwhereas there's about 700 r 80

musicians on Infected and Sou/ Mining, on Mind Bombthere's about 120" S Really!? : “Ohyeah, Infected was a big album, itwasn'tjust a case of me doing everything by myself. I've always collaborated with people but now I've found that | wantto collaborate permanently.” You'veworkedwithalotof musically influential people: Jools Holland, Sinead O’Conner, Foetus, Wire and Neneh Cherry. What sort ofimpact have they made on your music? - “Well, Foetus, who's been a really good friend of mine for about 10 years, has been a real source of inspiration to me. He's probably had the biggestimpact. Neneh and Sinead, | justwrote songs and got them to sing them. Jools Holland | just

gotinto do a piano solo. Wire had an influence on me atthe time —that was a long time ago. They produced the first ever The The single and also two tracks off my solo album. We used fo supportthem at gigs and stuff. They were very supportive inthe early days. “lwouldsaythe new group, though, are far more influential. They're very supportive of what| wantto do, they understand what I'm doing, they understand me for what | am...and vice-versa, | hope. We bring out each other’s strengths, which is the whole point of having a group. It's like I say, a kind of

alchemy, a chemistry when we're together and I've never had anything quite like it.” - The New Zealand concertis obviously part of a world tour. How much touring have you done? “None. I've nevereven foured Britain, actually. I'll be fouring New Zealand before I've evertouredin Britain, which s quite inferesting in way.” The lyrical content of Mind Bomb,

particularly the first few songs are, if not Moral Rock, atleast definite in their political views, especially with reference fo organisedreligion from apolitical (and somewhat cynical) viewpoin. Do you have any religious beliefs or philosophy as such2 “The word “religion” has become distorted over the years, but | do believein God, | don'tbelievein’ religon. I think the problem with most institutionalised religions is that people are actually worshipping the religion, they're not worshipping - God at all, and that religion, in effect, is blasphemous because it uses God asan excuse forwar and oppression and to strike fear into people’s hearts. My philosophy is based on spiritualism, really. That's what I'm interested in: the right of the human spiritto express itself on this particular plane. I wasn't brought up religious at all.lhad avague ide, | suppose, of

whatisgood and badfrommy parents. It was never religion, but | was always kind of possessed by the imagery and the beliefin spirits. I've had alot of odd experiences through my life. A succession of odd things happening. But | think organised

religions have had their day, they belonginthe past. All religions now, | think, must merge because essentially their base isthe same. They've just become perverted by dogma and pulled away from each other. Butthe songs are pretty self-explanatory anyway.” The production on Mind Bombis phenomenal. Was this the result of studio experience, working with

different people, time spent making the album?@ '

“Alot to do with studio experience The album took us five months of

make over a period of about 18 months. It was really gruelling— the toughest album | have everworked on,and when you get that tired with an album, you startto lose your way. You don'tknow whatyou're doing anymore. One of the producers had anervous breakdown, one of the engineers got sick, different musicians were crackingup. ltwas very tiring and a hard fime for everyoneinvolved. ltwasn'tan easy albumto make, but having said that, it was the most enjoyable, because | had the group there. It gets very lonely working by yourself and |

wanted to share what | was doing with the people | liked. lt makes you work harder because you're all inspiring each other.” Sothe band's given you more direction?

“No, I've gotavery strong direction, but it helped my stamina and it certainly makes it easier, more pleasurable. By yourself, music can become very one-dimensional. To bring it fo life you have to play with other people. ’

“But music doesn't existunless there's someone o listento it, obviously. So the tourkind of - - completes the circuit. lwanted to prove that you could be successful without going the accepted route. This pressure on bands where you have to tour, you have to do this ...

The The hasn't had hitsingles, hasn't toured, buthasbecome, like,a platinum group. But now to develop asa songwriter | needed to go out live. It's going o be hard. I've gotto learn 10 or 15 years' stagecraftin the space of several months. I'm under no delusions aboutthat. It's alearning process. | can also get rid of alot of excess baggage —by thatlmean - the last few albums. | can getthose out of the way live and startfresh for the new decdde with a great group and live experience under my belt. “I'mlooking ahead a lot. A lot of bands by the time they're 19, most of them have got fuck all to say and a very big mouth to say it with, and find that out by the time they're 22. If's too muchtoo soon. But | felt| was doing an apprenticeship. But because I've gotso much faith in myself and my music, I'm looking very long term. I'm talking about 30 or 40 years, so it was not essential for me to become a sort of high-profile pop star, particularly in my early 20s.| don't like getting recognised, | don't often anyway but| was on the video, and if I'm going to be on the world tour, my picture will be in the papers and people will see what | look like

anyway. You can'thide. You've gotto standup whenthe time comes. “Ifyou really know what you want, andyou're adamant, therecord companies have gotto letyou do it yourway. | believe in what 'm doing so much and they respected that. Eitherthey'd geta great record every three years or they wouldn't getany. It's assimple as that.” : Matt Johnson went on to talk about hisinterest in film and the possibility ofasoundtrack or even a script. In the meantime he's thoroughly pleased with the album, the band and the prospect of atour. His ' concerthere atthe end of the month promises to be an experience, not justfor us, the receptive audience, butalso forthe man himself. '

ANDREW DUBBER

“Alotofbands by the time they’re 19 have f—kall to say and avery big mouth to say itwith—and find out by the time they're 22.” L