Positive Punk

Rip It Up, Issue 73, 1 August 1983, Page 16

Positive Punk

Russell Brown

coffee and biscuits with the KENNEDYS

The Dead Kennedy's visit to Auckland co-incided with that of the US nuclear warship Texas. You want irony? Phew. "Actually, it's just the cheapest ride we could get over here," grins bass player Klaus Flouride. It is funny. The Dead Kennedys and the Texas represent alternative views of the American Dream. The warship slides into harbours all over the world trailing paternalism, reminding us that America is still defender of the free world. Certain magazines in that country carry large advertisements for instruments of death. The Dead Kennedys look at the underbelly of the dream. "We're putting the writing on the wall with the music and hoping people can gain something from it, not necessarily to save the American Dream as to learn to do without it," says singer fello Biafra.

But what can this band achieve to that end? "We can make a dent," says Flouride. "If we didn't think we could make a dent, we wouldn't do it. Reagan's not going to throw his hands up and say, 'Well, I give up, these Dead Kennedys, they've got me in a bind..."' "Or, more importantly, Reagan's backers," puts in Biafra. "We're not expecting something like that to happen but we're expecting some people to have their minds opened up a bit, read about it, listen i to the music, to.what. we have to say, find out about other bands like u 5..." Flouride continues. 'The real change is going to come from people changing themselves and affecting the people around them," Biafra says. "It's not going to come from the top, you've got to affect the people around you and they'll infect the people around them. It's kind of like the way Solidarity started in Poland, a street level thing.'.' Of course some people would say it's easy for a bunch of comfortable, relatively affluent Californians to sit back. and point out l what's wrong. Biafra fair bristles: "What does ..California

mean to you? Only one person in this band is from California. What's California to you?" Well the images we're presented with generally involve surfing, laid-backness, drugs, sunshine, relative affluence...

"You're talking about one part of the state, down in the South. That's like assuming everyone in Australia is a ... kangaroo. "That California is the part that Hollywood likes to sell to other people, fantasy and dreams, but a very small percentage of the population can afford to take part in that so a larger percentage finds other and possibly better things to do."

But it's still probably true to say that LA punks are better off than their UK counterparts. "Relative to British conditions, yes, but that's not to say that it's just a bunch of rich kids showing off to their Moms." "It's also a lot of kids who have grown up in families that have strived for the middle-class standards that they have achieved so strongly that the kids are totally stricken by those goals and having them force fed down their throats.

And that causes a different sort of anger from that of growing up in a poorer society," Flouride continues. "But it's still a very real frustration, having that as your only alternative a vapid, soulless existence oriented around money and objects you can acquire." The Dead Kennedys don't tend to cop the resentment that fellow Americans might in certain situations. "We're not the typical ugly American that goes on a big luxury liner tour of the South Seas. We come in, we meet different people, we're not staying at the Hyatt," Flouride explains. "Mostly we get people who are curious, as to what is really going on in our part of the world and vice versa, they want to know what they're missing, how it applies to them and whether people in other countries feel the same way they do," Biafra adds. 'They're curious to hear something other than the mainline of what they generally hear through the media or the standard touristy type people they meet on the street," Flouride adds. Obviously with the musical tack you've taken you're going to reach more young people than old. Is that where the hope lies? "It certainly lies more there than in people who've become set in their ways, either because they've given up or gotten overly comfortable," Biafra says. "But that crosses age lines." "But we picked the style of music we play because we liked it," adds Flouride. "That was the first criterion, we didn't think about who was going to listen to it." Most punk bands tend to slow down, or at least branch out after the first couple of albums, though. What's going to happen to the Kennedys' music? "What we try to do is do a lot of experimenting and take chances but not lose the hard core energy," Biafra says. "That's one of the things we try to prove you don't have to abandon the cutting edge in order to expand the music itself. "There's been this terrible schism that's happened between post-punk experimentalists

and the punks. It's either formula punk rock, which is in some cases becoming an even worse cliche than heavy metal, if that's possible, or you get people who say 'l'm not going to have anything more to do with punk now, I'm an adult. I'd better play quiet and only play to over 21-year-olds. And I guess these Joy Division records sound depressing so I'll have to pretend I'm depressed when I can't figure out how to spend my advance on my recording contract. "Joy Division was a fine band but their reputation is being cheapened by their awful imitators." "Or the exact opposite of that," adds Flouride. "Hey, let's be happy and dance, I'm sick of this politics stuff you know, it is getting rather bor-

ing. Let's just go out and have a good time and dance. Hey and don't think, it's distasteful." You mentioned the increasing similarity between hard core punk and heavy metal. Both genres seem very sexist. How many women do you get at gigs? "It's getting more and more," says Flouride. "And there's a lot more girls getting into things like stage jiving than there used to be." Biafra agrees: "Yeah, in San Francisco in particular, some of the girls are as wild as the guys and nobody really thinks of it as something odd. The single 'Too Drunk to Fuck' was an odd release in that respect. It almost seemed to be accepted as a drinking song for the "boys". "It's almost a satire of the usual drinking type song. Some people have seen it as poking fun at sexist heavy mental mentality, which wasn't the original intention, but I don't object to that interpretation at all." Does it worry you that the words aren't always clear, are open to misinterpretation? "Well, when they misinterpret them, we show 'em our own interpretation, to their face if

possibleTl think Nazi Punks Fuck Off' cleared that up for a lot of people who refused to learn to read and thought 'California Über Alles' was a |proffascist- song and Kill the Poor' was an anthem for rich kids to wipe out minority groups. It was pretty obvious after all that that wasn't the intention at all. It was using humour and satire as a weapon to achieve serious ends. Was 'Nazi Punks...' prompted by direct prob'lemsTwifhTtKatTelemeht?Hflflkfli^^kflH rap* //T !■■■■■ 1.1 ~ '1... | ■-i ■ "It was primarily a gut reaction against fighting at gigs that was going on in California at that time. There was a whole new group of people coming into, the scene and some of them decided that punk was what they'd seen : on TV and what ] the LA Times had told them it was, namely thugs going to beat each other up. So as soon as the media tried to wreck our scene by talking about thugs who probably didn't even exist at that time, the real thugs started coming in 'The song just said 'We're not here to play just to watch a lot of people bash heads and if that's the way you're g' img to act then you've got a lot in comrr.oii fascism^jH^BpMMl "There's a lot o? sick people in America who think violence is a solution to any problem." I think that's pretty universal. Is there much violence at gigs now? Biafra: "Not that much because people know from that song where we stand and that it isn't going to be tolerated at one of our shows." "We'd rather they didn't come. They can go to the Falklands or El Salvador if they want to fight," adds Flouride. "We don't ask the bouncers or policemen to stop them," Biafra explains. "We just tell them ] our L side of it and leave it at that. Like, a couple of times in England there was a problem with the National Front and the British Movement getting together with Exploited roadies and bashing a lot of heads and we just had an audience vote whether they,wanted to leave and we had 20 votes on one side and 1000 on the other so we played 1 longer -]|s "It's more effective with some macho goon to

just laugh at them than to try and fight them because it makes them so uncomfortable to know that somebody doesn't take them seriously." You mentioned the Exploited. What do you think of them and similar bands? He clears his throat: "We prefer other kinds. There's many people who are using punk rock and music in general to project intelligent feelings and use it for a thoughtful end rather than trying to provoke fighting and rockstar-itis. Rather than put down what we're not interested in we promote what we are interested in." Nevertheless, at your NZ concerts there's going to be a racist element. It's small, but it's there. How do you feel about playing to those people? "That kind of stuff really shows you how insecure those people are," Fluoride replies. 'They can't stand up for what they're for or what their abilities are, they have to cut down somebody else." "They blame their problems on somebody of a different skin colour rather than trying to. solve those problems on their own," Biafra adds. People have said to me "I'm going to get really pissed before I go to the Dead Kennedys." How do you react to that? Flouride: "Somebody said that to me last night. I said why don't you just go and see the show and get pissed afterwards if you want to?" "Security blankets come in all sizes," Biafra grins. "You shouldn't have to get pissed to enjoy anything," Flouride continues. "If you wanna that's your choice." "There's a whole group of people spreading in the States called Straight Edge, who've decided that they don't need any kind of stimulant to have a good time." "They're not so much telling other people not to as saying, 'Look, you don't have to conform to the attitudes preached in the beer commercials.'" But still some people are going to enjoy the music and ignore the words. Biafra: "Well, at least we're getting some-

where, but if they just competely ignore the lyrics and look at it as just a thrill, like a video game, then we feel obligated to disturb the fuck out of them in order to get them to look deeper." So what sort of audiences do you generally attract? A punk one? "Some are, some aren't. We're kind of the brow of the icebreaker. Especially in America, we bring in more people who've never been to a punk show before than probably any other band associated with punk. We kind of help the scene going by bringing in an influx of new people, rather than preaching to the converted and allowing things to grow stale." So what are the developments in the US music scene at the moment? "Well, there's a new major music video

channel called MTV (a cable TV channel) and they reject almost all black music now on grounds of colour alone. MTV is a very racist operation the worst thing to happen to music since Saturday Night Fever." "The blacks in the black music industry have decided to start their own channel instead of just sitting about complaining," Flouride continues. "But that's just continuing the segregation in some ways," Biafra says. What sort of an operation is your record label, Alternative Tentacles? "We started in order to use what money we had made from Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables to help other people out, give 'em a break. "The idea with the English Alternative Tentacles is to present a selection of some of the better American bands, not just punk music, but other kinds as well. In America, it's more to try and get some records out by people who might otherwise not get a record out at all." Do you prefer to go through a similar set up in other countries as well? "If possible, yes. In some cases, like Australia and New Zealand, we have a problem, because in order to finance our recordings at all, we wound up working with Static Records, or, in the case of Fresh Fruit, Cherry Red. And they were only willing to front us money to make a record, money we don't have on our own, if they had world wide rights to license it out to people of their choosing. Sometimes they listen to our preferences, sometimes they don't, espec-

Tally incountries like New Zealand, where we had never heard of a single label. "In the long run it's good just to get a record out in a place like this, rather than just restrict it to those wealthy enough to buy imports. But we do what we can to control the distribution, so it's marketed by fans, rather than by businessmen." -Flouride: "We like to control not just the content of the record and the sleeve, we like to have some say about how it's marketed." "A marketing based on ideas, rather than sell, sell, sell, buy my record and relating to musicians as stars, . rather than people." "We love rock 'n' roll music but we hate rock 'n' roll business." You've played anti-nuclear gigs in the USA. What's your attitude to supporting-pressure

groups? "Well, it depends on what kind. In America the wealthiest pressure groups are those formed by large corporations. Their give and take is what controls American politics almost completely. The Bill of Rights is for people who can afford it." "America has the best government money car buy," Flouride smiles. "Government by blackmail,” Biafra rejoins. "You'll lose my money from your campagn unless you kiss my ass.W^^^^^;-;:

Flouride: "Lots of capitalism, no free enterprise." Biafra: "Capitalists are against free enterprise!' So what kind of political structure would yoi like to see? "What could happen in our lifetimes and whai we'd like to see may be two different things,' Flouride says cautiously. "Democracy would be a step in the righl direction," Biafra says, smiling, but meaning it "It's not really a democracy when so few people vote out of their own free will." "Reagan was elected by about 26 per cent oi the registered voters," says Flouride. "Th( registered voters..." Solutions? Biafra: "The solutions start with the indiv idual, meaning by example we try to show tha yes, you can divorce yourself from this facad( called democracy and also bylimiting oui material desires we're able to live off this kinc of music where maybe other people couldn’t thus proving that you don't have to work z straight job in order to survive. I think that's very important." "I think that in order to get rid of authority or lessen authority, people have to take the authority on themselves," says Flouride. "Like the case of a show, we wouldn't need bouncers if people would take care of things themselves. It's happened at a lot of shows, more and more people are doing that. We're needing less and less bouncers, sometimes they just sit out in the entry hall and that's the way it should be." "We say, 'Look, if you want 'em gone you gotta rise above the need for them."' "If you don't need the police, you don't need the police," Flouride sums up. That sounds like anarchist principles. He smiles. "That's what it sounds like all right."

...you don t have to 11 .1 ... i abandon the cutting edge in order to expand the music."

"I said why don't you just go and see the show and get pissed afterwards?"

"There's a lot of sick people in America who think violence is a solution to any problem.

iff lj 1- ■- 1 / t XI ; * • g i We love rock'n'roll music but • T- , 1/ / ii i Y:; . ' YbftW.' we hate rock'n'roll business/