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REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS Of THE CONFERENCE.

we consider it the right thing to have a survey. I want to see that we have the power to do it. The CHAIRMAN : Certainly. We have got the power ourselves. Sir JOSEPH WARD : After a ship has been built and has got a proper certificate we can't say, " You must "alter your accommodation," but you could condemn the ship for being unseaworthy quite independent of the question of a proper certificate. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : But supposing a ship has not got the accommodation that she should have, I think we ought to retain the right to say that she is to be detained until she has the proper accommodation. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Supposing we agreed to a Board of Trade certificate in reference to British ships and other ships, how do you give a certificate in the case of a foreign country ? Is it by a reciprocal arrangement ? Do you recognise her certificate if she recognises yours? If so that is not very satisfactory to us. Mb. LLEWELLYN SMITH : We ha've to be satisfied that their conditions are equivalent to ours. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The fact seems to be that the Board of Trade enter into an arrangement, say, with Germany or France, by which they say, "If you will "accept our certificate, we will accept yours." Ma. NORMAN HILL : But that is only done on the understanding that their certificate is granted on substantially the same terms as ours. Mb. CUNLIFFE: It is Section 363 of the Imperial Act. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : That applies to passenger steamers only. Mr. CUNLIFFE : Yes. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I am bound to say that it does not strike me as being very satisfactory. It ought to apply to all ships—cargo and passengers. I take it that the consul or officer acts on the information and report of his experts, and it is upon that report that you grant the certificate. Captain CHALMERS : No, the consul has only to indorse the certificate. We get the regulations from the foreign country, and we go through them side by side with our own, and if they are substantially the same as ours we instruct the consul : "All you have to "do is to satisfy yourself that the certificate is in "proper form, and that it is signed by the proper " officer." Sib -JOSEPH WARD : Are we dealing with British ships or foreign ships? The CHAIRMAN : I think it would be better if we confine ourselves for the moment to British ships, and to these two points, and I think it has been very well nut by Mr. Norman Hill in this paper which has just been handed to me. He suggests that standards as to hulls, machinery and life-saving appliances, established by the Board of Trade, be accepted, for British ships, throughout the Empire—that is on those three points only —hull, machinery and life-saving appliances. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : If Section 363 of the principal Act, dealing with foreign ships, and Section 284, dealing with Colonial ships, is extended to all ships, and not merely to passenger ships, and is limited to the survey of hull, boilers and engines, then I think that Clause 6, which says "and are satisfied," should read "and are satisfied after examination or inspection." If the certificate is given, it ought to be by a responsible body. The CHAIRMAN : But we are dealing with British ships only, just for the moment. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : But does it take in boilers? A boiler is not a machine. Captain CHALMERS : Yes, certainly. A boiler has been held to be a machine by every court in the kingdom. Mr MILLS: There is one matter I want to refer to We find that Colonial certificates are not recognised

by the United States, and that has occasioned a good deal of trouble and expense. The United States authorities insist upon steamers going through a course of inspection, and that leads to a good deal of delay and expense in various ways. The CHAIRMAN : That shows the importance of having an Imperial standard. I think we could help you there. Do you know if the Foreign Office have ever tried to do anything in the matter '.' Mb. MILLS : No, I am not aware. I can't say that they have been asked to do anything. The CHAIRMAN : I think that is a point we can take up, if we could come to an arrangement with the Colonies about it. Mb. NORMAN HILL : May we take the question of provisions next '! I think there is very little controversy there. The CHAIRMAN : That is Page 47 in Appendix A., and I hear that the only things we have left out are bananas and tomatoes. You will be supplied, before next meeting, with a copy of your scale of provisions and ours side by side. We give more meat, I think, and you give more bananas. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : There is not much difference, really. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : It is the scale under your new Act, which is not yet in force, I think. The CHAIRMAN : It comes into force on the Ist of June next. It is a liberal scale, and 1 think it is a scale which might be very easily adopted. Sib WILLIAM LYNE : I don't think there will be any difficulty. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I don't see what we gain in this way. As to the oversea vessel leaving our ports, we have no power over her after she leaves the port. She is under the Merchant Shipping Act as soon as she gets out of our jurisdiction. We are not now dealing with vessels coasting at all. So far as the slight difference is concerned it is not desirable to go into it really. Mb. HAVELOCK WILSON : I am satisfied for the time being. For a start, we will go on with it. I don't say I will always be satisfied with it. Mr. WALTER J. HOWELL: I should like to ask Sir William Lyne a question, but of course he need not answer it unless he wishes. In your revised Bill, Sir William, do you adopt anything approaching our Imperial food scale? Sib WILLIAM LYNE : This Bill has not been properly completed. It is simply in draft, and there has not yet been time to complete it, and I have thought it wise not to go any further with it until after this Conference. That is the position at present with regard to that Bill. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I was going to suggest this. The Commission adopted a scale recommended Dy one of the medical witnesses—l think it was Dr. Robertson— and I would like it to be submitted to the Conference, and to have it printed in parallel columns, with yours, so that they could be more easily compared. The Conference is not in a position to make any useful alterations. The CHAIRMAN : May I take it that, so far as the oversea is concerned, you don't pass any criticism on the food scale ? Sib WILLIAM LYNE : I don't think the difference is so great as to cause serious trouble. There are only one or two points, I think, that need be referred to at all. As far as we are concerned, we are quite satisfied. The CHAIRMAN : We shall not be able to do very much more to-day, but I think you might just open the question of accommodation. Sib WILLIAM LYNE : No, I can't open it now. I must go. I think we might put that down as one of the first subjects to be dealt with when we meet again. There is first the question of the food, and then I think this subject might come next.