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copies to Sir Edward Gibbes and myself. Sir Edward Gibbes gave me a copy, and I took a copy; which are those that I have here now for notes and for the use of the Committee. They have beeri kept under lock and key. 166. The Chairman.'] Mr. Wilkes, you say, had~charge of the whole lot ?—He would have the work of putting them up into lots for distribution. 167. So that if anything went astray from the Education Department it would be through Mr. Wilkes, he having had the lot sent to him in the first place ?—But we know how many copies he gives back, and we know how many copies the clerk receives. 168. Have you that information now ?—Not for each of the papers. I could give it you for the Bill. 169. Not for the regulations ?—No. 170. Bight Hon. B. J. Seddon.] Could you obtain it ?—Yes. 171. The Chairman.] Will you obtain for the Committee information as to the total number of copies of the Regulations for the Examination and Inspection of Schools received by the Department from the Printing Office, and how those were disposed of ?—Yes. 172. You yourself, you say, had a copy?—l have two copies here. One is marked " For notes," and the other is for the specimen file. If copies of a document are sent to a Committee, and I am to appear before that Committee, they give me a specimen file, so that I know I have exactly what the Committee has. Then I have my copy for notes as well. 173. Have your own copies ever been out of your possession ?—No. 174. Have you discussed with educational authorities the provisions of those documents in such a way as to afford any information to the outside public ?—No. I have discussed some of the points in them with educational authorities, but only fragmentarily. 175. That is, educational authorities outside of your own Department ?—Yes. That was a good many months ago, and then only portions. That was with the consent of the Minister. It was only portions that I discussed with educational authorities, and not in the form in which they appear in these papers. 176. Any conversation that you may have had outside could not form the basis of the articles which appear in the newspaper, could it'? —No. There has been a good deal of modification since, as to the precise form. 177. I suppose you are aware that certain articles have appeared in the Neiv Zealand Times in connection with matters now being dealt with by the Education Committee?— Yes. 178. Do you think it possible for the information on which those articles are based to have been given from your Department? —No, Ido not. I have inquired very carefully into it. I do not think that it is at all possible. 179. You say that the Secondary Schools Bill never came down to your Department ?—Yes, it did. I asked for a certain number of copies from the Law Draftsman, having the authority of the Minister to ask for them. That number of copies was supplied, and was actually brought up byhand; it was not sent by messenger. I myself took the two copies which I have here now. I took three copies, and handed the rest to Sir Edward Gibbes. He has one copy under lock and key in his own confidential drawer. I may say that I am sometimes called away, and so Sir Edward Gibbes keeps all these papers. But I have seen that copy in his drawer, and that accounts for the whole of the copies. We sent twenty-seven to the clerk. 180. How many copies did you receive altogether ? —Thirty-two. 181. Out of which you have three? —I have three. No; I have four. 182. And Sir Edward Gibbes has one ?—Yes. 183. Which you say you have seen in his drawer ?— Yes. 184. And twenty-seven were sent to the Committee? —Yes. 185. That accounts for the thirty-two that you received from the Law Office ?—Yes. 186. There is no chance of any of those copies having been out of the office at any time before they were sent up to the Committee ?—-No. They were only ready on the Friday morning, and they were sent up on the Friday morning—in fact, the last line is printed in only the last copy. 187. With regard to the paper dealing with training-coiieges for teachers : has this been in your possession all the time? —Yes, it has been in my possession all the time. When I say "my possession," I mean that it has been on the file in the Department, which has been kept in the same way as all confidential files. 188. When did you start typing the copies for the Committee ?—On the Thursday afternoon, after the meeting of the Committee. The copies were finished on the Friday morning. 189. How many copies were typed? —That I cannot say. My directions were that thirty should be typed, but I could not tell you how many were actually done. I asked the typist whether every one of the copies was given over, and he told me that he had given every one in. 190. Were they typed in the office ?—ln our own office. 191. You do not think a copy of that document could have been taken away from there?— No. 192. At the present time you have no recollection of the exact number of copies ?—No. 193. Will you find out what number were typed, and what was done with them ?—Yes. 194. Bight Hon. B. J. Seddon.] Sir Edward Gibbes would be able to give the information as to the number typed, would he not ?—Yes, I think he would. 195. You received instructions to mark these documents " Confidential," and to keep them confidential? —Yes. 196. Have any copies been sent out to any Education Boards or School Inspectors ?—No. 197. The only ones sent out were those sent up to the Parliamentary Committee ?—Yes. The old form of this document [document indicated—Regulations for Teachers' Certificates] was sent out more than a year ago, but the document was not in this form. A good deal of alteration has been made since.