L—B.-1

12

[g. hogben.

198. But what has been printed in the New Zealand Times has been taken from the new form, and not from the old one?— That is so. 199. The draft Bill mentioned has not been completed or approved yet ?—No. 200. It has not even been circulated among Mfnisters ?—No. Geobgb Hog-ben, Secretary for Education and Inspector-General of Schools, re-examined. 201. The Chairman.] I understand that you desire to correct some evidence given by you this morning in connection with the number of copies of the Bill that you received ?—Yes ; as to the number of copies. I had the number thirty-two firmly fixed in my mind, and I connected it with the Bill. I gave the number to you as thirty-two, but I find that I was wrong. 202. What was the number of copies that you received?—l cannot tell you that now. I find that the number thirty-two relates to something else—to the memorandum on the trainingcolleges. 203. You will ascertain the correct number? —Yes. (See Appendix A.) Pebcival Pibani, Clerk to the Education Committee, examined on oath. (No. 7.) 204. The Chairman.] When did you receive copies of the Eegulations for the Inspection and Examination of Schools, of the Secondary Schools Bill, and of the memorandum re trainingcolleges for teachers ?—I received the papers entitled "Free Places in Secondary Schools," and " Secondary Schools Bill, Confidential Draft of," on Friday, the 28th August. 205. How many copies did you receive ?—On Friday, the 28th August, I received twenty-five copies of each, and 206. Do you mean twenty-five copies of each of the three documents—the Secondary Schools Bill and the regulations, or only the regulations ?—Twenty-five copies of " Free Places in Secondary Schools," twenty-five copies of the " Secondary Schools Bill, Confidential Draft of," and twentyfive copies of " Training-colleges for Teachers." I received the latter on the 29th August, and on the same day I received two extra copies of " Free Places in Secondary Schools," and two extra copies of the " Secondary Schools Bill, Confidential Draft of," and two copies of " Training-colleges for Teachers," making twenty-seven copies in all. 207. Of each ?—Of each. 208. What did you do with these twenty-seven copies ?—Twenty-five copies were sent out to the members of the Committee, and two copies were left in my possession. 209. Did each member of the Committee receive that copy ? —That I could not tell you. 210. Did he to the best of your knowledge ?—To the best of my knowledge, each member did. 211. How did you send the copies out ?—I sent out twenty-five copies of " Training-colleges for Teachers," " Draft Eegulations for the Examination and Classification of Teachers," and " Draft Eegulations for the Inspection and Examination of Schools," on Monday, the 31st August, at about 4 p.m. I did them up and sent them with a covering memo., which read as follows:—"Please receive one copy of each confidential draft of the following papers : (1.) Eegulations for Inspection and Examination of Schools. (2.) Training-colleges for Teachers. (3.) Eegulations for Classification of Teachers. The same to be retained, as per memo, of the 28th August last." The memo, of the 28th August read the same, except that the papers were different. They were, " Free Places in Secondary Schools," Secondary Schools Bill, Confidential Draft of," and " Manual and Technical Instruction." This memo, was sent out with the papers on the 28th August, at about 10 p.m. 212. Do I understand you to say that you got the copies on the 29th August, and did not send them out till the 31st ?—I received them on Saturday morning, the 29th, at about a quarter to 1 o'clock, and send them out on the afternoon of Monday, the 31st August. 213. Where were they during that time ?—They were locked up in my cupboard. They were sealed as they were when sent up from the Education Department, and were not opened—the string was not broken till the Monday afternoon. 214. You say that you sent one copy of each paper to each of the members ?—I sent one copy of each to each member, making up the twenty-five. 215. And you retained two yourself?— Yes. I did not receive the two extra copies until the Monday afternoon, the 31st August. 216. Have either of those two copies ever been out of you possession ?—Yes. Sir William Eussell asked me for the loan of the confidential draft of the Secondary Schools Bill, and returned it to me on the same day. Then the reporter to the Committee, Mr. Le Grove, obtained a copy of the syllabus on Thursday, the 3rd September, for the purpose of making extracts to include in the evidence. Those are the only occasions on which the papers have been out of my possession. 217. Did Mr. Le Grove have the paper out of the Committee-room?— Yes. 218. Mr. Massey.] Away from the Buildings ?—I could not say that. In the usual course he receives a copy of whichever paper extracts are read from, for the purpose of placing them in the evidence. 219. The Chairman.] Mr. Le Grove is the Committee Eeporter ? —Yes. 220. What steps did you take to see that any documents which were left in the Committeeroom by the members after discussing them were placed beyond the reach of anybody else ?—I placed them in their respective envelopes, and locked them up in the cupboard. 221. I mean this : If there were any documents left about in the Committee-room after the Committee had finished, what steps did you take to prevent any person having access to them ?—I never left the Committee-room. I put the documents in their respective bundles, and locked them in the cupboard. 222. And no one but yourself had access to that cupboard ? — I cannot swear to that, because when I have finished my day's work I take the key down to the Clerk's room and put it in the drawer there. That is the end of it, as far as lam concerned.