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173. But taking it all round, a valuer would not have any difficulty in cutting it up ?—No. 174. You do not know anything about the back block No. 12?— I have been there; it is very rough. 175. That will be pretty uniform in its value ?—Yes. 175 a. Then there are three sets of values—the rough country, the bush, and the flat;,and a competent man would have no difficulty in arriving at the values of each block, and in cutting it up ? —No trouble at all. 176. Mr. Fraser.] You say that it was public property, that it was a trust—you mean for ten or fifteen years ?—Yes. 177. Mr. Stevens.] It was held in trust down to 1886 : your dealings were before 1886?— Yes. 178. Are you aware that the tenure was changed subsequently to 1886—that is, that the subdivision took place, and instead of the original title remaining it was altered and a different title given ? —Yes. 179. In the first place you dealt with Kemp ?—Yes. 180. Are you aware that subsequently Warena became a co-owner with Kemp in No. 10 ?— Yes. 181. Did you believe that Warena and Kemp were trustees, or that they held the land according to Native custom, to be dealt with as they as chiefs thought best ?—I was under the impression that they held it as chiefs, as is the way amongst Maoris. 182. Mr. McDonald.] With regard to your dealings in 1889, can you give the name of any person of the Muaupoko who informed you at that time that the block was held in trust of any description ? —I could not say in 1889 ; but, in regard to the first transaction in 1882, it was Mr. Palmerston who told me. 183. Can you not give me the name of any person, subsequently to 1886, who told you the block was held in trust by any one?—No; I could not say; the matter never cropped up. Donald Fbasee examined. 184. Mr. Stevens.] How long have you lived on this coast? —I came up in March, 1851. 185. Have you been well acquainted with the Hunia family from then till now? —Yes; they lived about a mile and a half from me. 186. Did you know Te Hakeke?—He was dead before I came. 187. You know Kawana Hunia?—Yes ; I did business with him. 188. Did you act as his paid agent or his adviser? —As his adviser; not as a paid agent. 189. When the dispute arose between Kemp a,nd the other people, respecting Horowhenua, did he consult you on the matter? —On many occasions ; I do not think on all occasions. 190. What was your first connection with the Horowhenua Block ?—The first I recollect of it was advancing him money in 1873 to carry out the Court at Foxton in 1873. 191. How much did you advance him on that occasion?— Several hundred pounds, at various times ; sometimes £100, sometimes £50. I could not say exactly, but during that Court I should say I paid him fully £300. 192. After the sitting of the Court, the Court gave its decision. Did you hear anything with regard to the title —whose name was in the title?— Sometime after, it might be a year or more, Hunia came and complained to me that Kemp had not treated him fairly ; that he had put his own name in, usurping the power, and leaving Hunia out. I advised him to apply for a subdivision of the block. I think he applied for it ; lam pretty well sure he did apply. 193. Are you aware that it was impossible for him to get a subdivision at that time ?—I was hot aware at the time; but I found afterwards that it was so. 194. That it was impossible without application being made by Kemp ?—No ; I did not understand that. 195. But the actual owner's name was on the face of the certificate, and the persons interested had their names on the back of the certificate, and only the one on the face had any power to apply for a subdivision; and that was the reason Hunia was prevented from getting a subdivision ?—I did not go into those details ; I simply advised him that he could apply for a subdivision. 196. With regard to Hunia himself, did you have any conversation with him shortly before his death with respect to his general business, or what he required you to do ?—I had several conversations. He was ill for a year or so, and he was rather gone in the mind; but previous to that I used to have a good deal of conversation with him. I was always wishing him to arrange matters with his own family, so that there should be no disturbance afterwards, and his intention was to do so. 197. Did he request you to do anything?—No; nothing in particular ; but he always looked to me generally. All he did request was that, if anything happened to him, I should not forsake his family. 198. You have been acting in connection with the Horowhenua Block previously to the subdivision ? Did you make any proposals with regard to subdivision ? —No; I was not at the subdivision in 1886. 199. When did you first become aware of the subdivision, or first take part in the discussion about it ?—About 1889. This young man came and complained that he could not get any share of his rent. He understood he was a co-owner in the block with Kemp, for which Kemp was drawing £400, and he could not get any. He said if I was going to Wellington he would go too. We came to Wellington, and he went to Kemp, and wanted some money from him; and I believe he got £100. He wanted Kemp to give him No. 14, that he might lease it. Kemp demurred for a time, and said, " Well, no; I have promised that to my sister." It went on for some time —months, I should think. Then he went to get an arrangement with Kemp, and he and I went to Wanganui and met Kemp, and wa went to Mr. Woon's private residence; and I said, on behalf of Warena, to