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130. Have you had any other transaction in relation to timber in the block with Kemp ? —No. 131. You took a lease, I think, by Bell, Gully, and Izard, of 100 acres on the eastern side of the railway ?—Yes ; a twenty-one years' lease, at 2s. 6d. an acre. 132. This was duly registered? —Yes. 133. Did you ever hear of any objection to this lease being registered? —No. 134. You never heard of any caveat being lodged against the title under which it was registered?— No. 135. Has any member of the tribe, since you have been in possession, objected to you having this lease ?—No. 136. No demand has been made on you by anyone but Kemp for rent in respect of it ?—No. 137. Mr. Stevens : I understand you to say that, after you leased Block 3, Wirihana objected, or made a protest ?—Yes. 138. You had someone in charge of the mill. Did Wirihana go to the person in charge of the mill, or did he only come to the pa?—l was away that day, but I understand that two men from Wirihana had made a protest against my cutting. 139. You went to Wanganui and saw Kemp ?—Yes. 140. Did Kemp make any reference to Wirihana or Warena as being concerned or interested in the land ?—No. 141. After you had made the arrangement with Kemp Warena came down and felled a tree across the tramway ? —Yes ; two or three years after. 142. With regard to the trust account that was proposed to be opened in the name of Mr. Marshall, Mr. Edwards, and Kemp, why was the trust account not paid in the names of those persons? —The Natives here objected to it. Mr. Marshall was acting for part of the Hunia tribe, and it was suggested by him that the trust should be varied. 143. Did Kemp at any time propose to open a trust account in his own name solely ?—Yes ; I believe I have a letter to the effect that he wanted the money paid to his account in the bank, to be applied to the owners of the land when it was decided who they were. 144. In his own name only ? —Yes. 145. Who objected to that ?—There was never anything done in the matter. I went on cutting till I was intereferred with by the Natives—the beneficiaries in the block. Neither Warena nor Wirihana interferred with me ; only some of those who were likely to be interested. 146. Was it the Ngatipariri, who live on the south side of the lake, who interfered?— Yes. 147. Did some of those living on the north side of the stream also interfere?— Yes; both parties. 148. After their interference there was a trust account opened in the name of the Natives?— Yes ; in three names. They agreed amongst themselves, and appointed three parties to have it. 149. You paid Kemp £300 in respect of this block?— Yes; No. 14. 150. In respect to No. 11 you paid twice over ?—Yes. 151. You paid Kemp £500?— Yes. 152. Did he pay any portion of that to any of the people ?—Wirihana told me he got £100. 153. With respect to the £300, did he receive any part of that ?—I do not know whether he did. 154. Did you never consult Wirihana nor Warena with respect to the leasing of this block?— Yes; several times when I was interferred with here. 155. In all your negotiations with Kemp has he never mentioned that they were in any way interested? —No. 156. Supposing you had not consulted Wirihana and Warena, would you have been able to carry on your felling without interruption ? —I suppose I would have had a lot of trouble; they helped me sometimes when I was interferred with. 157. Did you never receive a notice from Mr. Barnicoat requesting you not to pay money in respect to No. 11 over to Kemp?—Very likely I have; I could not speak from memory, but I believe I have got a letter with something about it. 158. Objecting to your paying money without consulting Warena ?— Something to that effect. 159. Did you ever have any conversation or communication with Donald Fraser in respect to it at Palmerston ?—Yes. 160. Mr. Fraser.] Was that lease at Wanganui, so far as you are aware, with the consent of the Hunia family, as well as Kemp ?—I understood that it was so. 161. How much money have you paid in connection with No. 11, up to the present day, in connection with the lease you executed in reply to the telegram ?—I have paid Kemp £500, but I cannot say how much I have paid to the Government. 163. All you have paid Kemp is £500 ?—Yes. 164. And all you know is that £100 was given to Wirihana ?—Yes. 165. How long have you been in the district ? —About twenty-seven years. 166. When you entered into negotiations in Wauganui in 1889, who were you under the impression were the owners of No. 11, from what you had heard, and the general surroundings?—l understood the block was really in trust, and I thought Kemp had the sole right to do the business. 167. Where did you draw that conclusion from ? —From general report. 168. The Chairman.) You have been here twenty-seven years?— Yes. 169. It was general public talk that No. 11 was trust property in Kemp's name?— Yes; it was generally known about the district. 170. Have you a fair knowledge of the block generally with regard to values?—l know the flat country. 171. Is that nearly uniform in its value ?—The bush country is pretty fairly uniform. 172. And the cleared country :is there much variety in that ?—A little; there is a good deal of sand.