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128. You say that if the Supreme Court had asked for the names, you would have given them ?—Yes. 129. Was it then because Mr. Edwards asked the question, and not the Court, that you would not give the information ?—lt was Edwards who asked me the question, " How many acres I was going to give," and I said I did not know. 130. If the Court had asked you instead of Mr. Edwards, would you have told the names you gave us to-day ?—lf the Court had asked me to give a list of names, I should have given it. 131. But when Mr. Edwards asked you, all you said was : " I shall give to whom I please " ? —■ Yes. 132. You told Mr. Edwards that none of these people had any right to the land, but you tell us to-day they had a right to it ? —They had a right to it before 1886, but after 1886, when the land was given to myself and Kemp, they had ceased to have a right. 133. Who told you that ? The lawyers ? —The law made in 1886; and the Court gave the order to myself and Kemp. The order never said then that we were trustees. 134. Who interpreted the law for you, and said you were absolute owners ?—lt was the decision of the Native Land Court that informed us we were owners, and it was the Native Land Court that divided the whole block, amounting to 52,000 acres. 135. It was when you asked the Native Land Court to divide the 15,000 acres between yourself and Kemp, that you discovered that, instead of being there as a caretaker for Ngatipariri, it was yours? —Yes; that was what I understood. 136. Then, if the Land Court had not told you you were the absolute owner, you would have put all these people in as a matter of course ?—Yes ; on my conviction. 137. So, if a wrong has been done to your people, it has not been done by you, but by the law ? —The tribe knew quite well that pieces were to be given to them, and they knew this piece was given myself and Kemp. 138. Did not a lot of members of the tribe in the Supreme Court say they understood it was given to you and Kemp simply to take care of, as caretakers?—A number of Kemp's people said so at the time ; but they would not have said so, unless this trouble had commenced. 139; But fox the Court saying you were the two owners you would have put in the names T you say had a right to be there ?—Yes ; according to my thoughts (whaekaaro). 140. Therefore, if a wrong was done to the Ngatipariri by being left out,, it was not your wrong but the wrong of the law ?—Yes. 141. Are you aware that the Supreme Court has reversed that in respect to these people, and they are put back?—l hear you say so. 142. Do you not know that the Supreme Court has put you and Kemp in the wrong, and put the Muaupoko back on the land ? —I do not know it at all. 143. Will you swear you have never heard the result of the judgment at Wanganui in the Supreme Court ?—I know that I was beaten in the Supreme Court at Wanganui, and that I had to pay costs. 144. Have you paid those costs ?—No. 145. Did you not hear that, when the Court ordered you to pay costs, the Court also struck out your name and Kemp's, and put back the whole of the original list on this land ?—I knew that; but I knew perfectly well the Judge was on your side all through. 146. That was the Chief Justice, was it not ?—Yes. 147. Have you not heard that, although the Chief Justice was on my side all through, all the Judges confirmed afterwards, in the Court of Appeal, what he had done ?—Yes; because they all pull one way. 148. But all the Judges came over to my side ?—Yes; but you are all sticking together. 149. Did you hear also that they had struck out the part of the judgment which required Kemp to account to the people for rent's ?—Yes. 150. For what purpose did you give the list you spoke of to Mr. Cadman ? Was it a list of those you say were owners with yourself in the block ?—I did not put them in the list because they had a right to the land, but according to my own thoughts. 151. Was it a list of those who would have had a right to the land but for the judgment of the Court which gave it to you two, in your own opinion?— Yes. 152. Was the list given to Mr. Cadman before or after the meeting at Horowhenua when you did not speak ?—I cannot be quite certain now as to whether it was before or after, but it was about that time. 153. Was that after the last judgment of the Native Land Court ?—Yes. 154. You sold a part of this land to the Government. Was it a part of the land you proposed to give the Ngatipariri, or that you proposed to keep for yourself and family, that you sold ?—I did not make any division at that time at all; I simply sold a portion of the block. 155. Did you sell it on your own behalf or on behalf of yourself and others ?—lt was on my behalf, and not on that of others. 156. Who arranged it with you —you or an agent on your behalf ?—I and my brother Wirihana arranged it. 157. When was your first talk with the Government about the sale of this land?— After the last Court at Palmerston. 158. Then this sale to the Government was arranged after you gave your list of names to Mr. Cadman ?—I first spoke about the sale before the list of names was sent in. 159. Where was the first talk, and with whom?— The first talk took place in Wellington. My brother was there, and Mr. Cadman, the Minister, was there. He was then Native Minister. 160. That was after the meeting at Horowhenua, when you went, but did not speak ?—There were two meetings here, and I went to Wellington several times.