37

G.--2

95. How did they know that ?—They had heard it was my intention to do so. 96. How had they heard it, if you had not told them ?—-They heard it from Fraser. 97. Was Fraser at that time your agent?— Yes. 98. And did Wirihana speak with your authority ?—Yes. 99. Then, what was said at that meeting by Fraser and Wirihana was in effect your speech to the people ?—Yes; what was said by them were my wishes. 100. Then, by the mouths of these two representatives, Fraser and Wirihana, you agreed to give the tribe 3,500 acres ?—Yes. 101. And to whom was that offer made by you through these two mouthpieces—to the Muaupoko as a whole, or to Ngatipariri ?—The talk then was about the division that had been made of No. 11 Block between Kemp and myself, but we did not arrive at any conclusion. 102. Did you offer this 3,500 acres to the Ngatipariri or not at this time, or was it only in your heart ?—lf it had been settled at that time between Kemp and myself, I should have given the 3,500 acres to the Ngatipariri. 103. I want to know what you mean by the Ngatipariri ? They are a hapu of Muaupoko are they not ?—Yes; I mean by the Ngatipariri those who are cleaving to me. 104. Who are those who were to get the 3,500 acres if a settlement was come to? —Himiona Kowhai, Iritana Kowhai, Te Paki te Hunga, Hariata, wife of Hoani Puihi, Hema Henare, Euka Hanuhanu, Kingi Puihi, son of Hoani, Hana Eata te Earaku, Mere Ana Maunu, Eihipeti Nireaha, Hiria Puihi, Pero Tikaro, Pene Tikaro, Hoani Nahona, Pararina Paki, and some others whose names I forget. 105. Those were the people who understood they were to get 3,500 acres if you and Kemp came to a settlement on this occasion ?—Yes; my list was a longer list, which I handed to Mr. Cadman. 106. You regard these as part owners with you in Block 11 at that time?— Yes; those were the Ngatipariri, who were cleaving to me. 107. Do you remember applying to the Native Land Court in 1890 to subdivide this block of 15,000 acres between yourself and Kemp, and the Court divided it and gave you and Kemp about half each.? —Yes. 108. You had the half on one side of the stream and Kemp the half on the other side?— Yes. 109. Do you remember the Court which sat in 1891, presided over by Judges Mair and Scannell?—Yes. 110. Do you remember their judgment saying they would not disturb that division as the law stood ?—Yes. 111. Did that meeting which you attended, but did not address, take place after this second judgment by Judges Mair and Scannell?—Yes. 112. When you and Kemp were supposed to be in possession of the block?— Yes. 113. You say it was understood by those Ngatipariri whose names you have given, that, if the agreement came off, they would get 3,500 acres?— Yes. 114. That would still leave you under your name 3,000 acres?— Yes. 115. As you understood the matter, for whom was that 3,000 acres that would be left in your name —for yourself only, or for yourself and others?— For me and my sisters. '116. What are the names of those for whom you proposed to retain the other 3,000 acres? — Myself, Wirihana Hunia, Terena Mete Kingi, Eakere Hunia, Hera te Upokoiri, Te Earaku. 117. Did the members of your family know at that time this portion was for them?— Yes; they knew it from the fact that I was their brother. 118. You admit they were owners with you in this block which had been divided between yourself and Kemp ? —Yes. 119. You remember the evidence you gave in the Supreme Court at Wanganui ?—Yes. 120. lam going to read part of it to you. Do you remember the question being put to you by Mr. Edwards : " You say you are willing to return part of the land " ? Your answer was " Yes; to those to whom I am pleased to give it " ?—Yes. 120 a. Mr. Edwards asks : "Not that they have a right to it," and your answer is, " No; on account of the kindness of my heart '■' ?—Yes. 121. Then you added: "Himiona Kowhai will be put in"; "How much"? "I do not know"; "If you get 11b, how much are you going to give Himiona Kowhai"? "I could not say ; if I like to give him an acre that is my affair. lam going to give the 3,200 acres to those I wish, and they can do as they like. Himiona is one lam going to give it to, and others of the Ngatipariri. If I like to give it to one man, or two, or three, I will do so." Was that true? —Yes. 122. Why did you not tell the Supreme Court what you have told us to-day? Why did you not give the names of those who were part owners in the land? —I was not asked at the Supreme Court to give in any list of names, or I should have done so. 123. What did you mean by saying, " If Hike to give all the land to one, or two, or three, I will," when you admit that all these were owners with you?—l did say so. 124. Now, you say you knew these were owners with you?— They were perfectly clear that they would be owners with me, if this understanding was carried out with Kemp. 125. You would have put them into this 3,000 acres, because they had a right to go in with you? —Yes ; on the land I had set apart for them. 126. Your reason for putting them in, was because they had a right to be there, and you left out others because they were not entitled to be there ?—The Ngatipariri who clave to me were the ones I was going to put on the land. 127. Had they a what jpaanga on the land or not? —They had a right on this land, but according to the decision of the Native Land Court, the block was given to myself and Kemp. They had a right on this before 1886.