QUACKERY PREVENTION BILL COMMITTEE (REPORT OF), TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1907 Session I, I-14

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1907. NEW ZEALAND.

QUACKERY PREVENTION BILL COMMITTEE (REPORT OF), TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Report brought up Bth October, 1907, and ordered to Be printed.

ORDERS OF REFERENCE.

Extract from the Journals of the House of Representatives. Wednesday, the 17th Day of July, 1907. Ordered, " That a Select Committee be appointed to take evidence and report on the Quackery Prevention Bill ; the Committee to have power to call for persons and papers ; three to be a quorum : the Committee to consist of Mr. J. Allen, Hon. Mr. Fowlds, Mr. Gray, Mr. Hanan, Mr. Jennings, Mr. R. McKenzie, Mr. T. Mackenzie, Mr. Mander, and Mr. Remington."—(Mr. Hobnsby.) Ordered, " That the Quackery Prevention Bill be referred to the Quaokery Prevention Bill Committee."— (Mr. Hornsby.)

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REPORT.

The Quackery Prevention Bill Committee, to whom was referred the Quackery Prevention Bill, have the honour to report that, after carefully considering the same, and having taken the evidence of a number of witnesses, and considered a number of communications thereon, they recommend that the Bill be not proceeded with in its present form. In the meantime, however, the Committee, in view of the serious matters sought to be dealt with by the Bill, strongly impresses upon the Government the urgent necessity for passing legislation this session, viz. : — 1. Preventing the advertising and supply of any preparation, medicine, or appliance alleged to be for the prevention, alleviation, or cure of any human ailment or physical defect, that in the opinion of a Judge of the Supreme Court is harmful to health, or of a fraudulent nature, or of such character that it cannot have the effect claimed for it, or cannot effect the purpose for which it was supplied 2. To make it unlawful for any person to sell, ofiei or attempt to sell or supply any preparation or medicine for the prevention, alleviation, or cure of human ailments, unless it shall be accompanied by the formula of preparation, which shall be accurately stated and legibly printed upon the label of the bottle or package immediately containing the preparation or medicine. .This clause shall not apply when (1) any such preparation or medicine is supplied on a prescription given by a duly registered medical practitioner, or (2) to any person who applies to and proves to the satisfaction of any Judge of the Supreme Court that his preparation or medicine is an original and secret one, and that the quality, nature, and ascertained properties of the components and of the composition itself are (a) not harmful to health, (6) not of a fraudulent nature, (c) that the preparation or medicine is of such a character as may have the effect claimed for it or may effect the purpose for which it was supplied, and (d) that it may with safety be intrusted to inexperienced and uninformed persons for the purpose of self-treat-ment. 3. To make it unlawful for any person in advertising any medicine, preparation, or appliance as above to unwarrantably use the name of any medical man or false title, such as " Dr. 's Patent Cure," or the name of any person which would convey a wrong impression. 4. To make it unlawful for any person other than a duly registered medical practitioner or qualified veterinary surgeon to sell or supply any appliance or preparation which may be used for preventative purposes. " Appliance " or " preparation " to be denned by regulation gazetted. That this Committee desires to place on record its appreciation of the work so well and ably done by the Chairman (Mr. J. A. Hanan) during the taking of evidence and deliberations of the Committee; and this Committee also desires to thank the Chairman for his painstaking labours in haying brought out all the points of value in connection with the Committee's labours. Bth October, 1907. J - A " Hanan ' Chairman.

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Wednesday, 7th August, 1907. William McLean examined. (No. 1.) 1. The Chairman.'] What are you?—l generally designate myself as a commission agent. 2. Residing in Wellington ? —Yes. 3. You are an ex-member of this House, are you not? —Yes. 4. Have you read the Quackery Prevention Bill?— Yes. 5. Will you kindly, in as brief terms as possible, give us your opinion of that Bill?—I should like to say that the Bill is a very good one, and that I think the instigator of the Bill should be commended for introducing it. It is a Bill that should go through the House, in my opinion; but I think, so far as the Bill is concerned, it may be looked upon as one that will entirely suit the medical profession and be a great help to them. It is only right that I should say I am not interested commercially as to whether the Bill passes or does not pass. To my mind it is a Bill that would give the medical profession an undue monopoly. There is another class of gentlemen, however, and sometimes ladies, who effect a great deal of good to patients after a medical man has frequently failed. Ido not know whether you expect me to give instances. I could only give you instances so far as I myself am concerned, but others perhaps might do the same. I may say frankly that I have practised for nearly twenty-five years as a mental and magnetic healer, and during that time I have effected a number of cures where medical men have failed. I would like to add that I have never received a shilling or the value of a shilling from any of my patients. Directly money comes into view I say that I will not entertain it, but still there are others that are perhaps not in the same position. _ 6. Will you "ive us the nature of the cases you have treated beneficially?—l could give you the nature of some. °I need not mention names. You have either to take my word or not, because it is not advisable to give names. I might mention a case that occurred in the mental asylum in Christchurch, where a patient was in a padded cell as naked as at birth. The patient had been there for months. After a great fight with the doctor—l will give you his name if you choose—l had an interview with the patient which only lasted ten minutes, and that patient is alive to-day. If the Chairman of this Committee or the Minister of Health, who is present, desires the name I will give it to him privately. The late Dr. MacGregor was well acquainted with the case and admitted to me the facts That is one case, and if one case can be cured how many other cases of a similar nature might be cured if properly treated? I can give you another case, in which a gentleman was attended by three medical men in this city. The gentleman's name is open to either the Minister of Health or the Chairman of the Committee privately, if desired. The three medical men had a consultation at about 4 o'clock in the afternoon and decided that on the next day, it Hie patient could get any sleep, they would perform an operation upon him. The patient had been six or seven nights—l am not quite sure which—but he had had no sleep, and the night after the consultation the patient's sweetheart, who is now his wife, appealed to me at nearly 11 o clock at night to help him I went to the house, and in less than an hour s time 1 had the patient last asleep and told him to sleep the time necessary for the operation next morning. At the appointed time the medical men arrived and found him in a perfectly calm and collected mood, ready for the operation The operation was performed satisfactorily, and the patient afterwards thanked me for what I had done. He is, a man in business in this city. I can give you another case—the case of a young lady. lam just giving you the principal cases. There was a young lady—a clergyman's daughter in this district—who came into my office accidentally one day, and not with the view of receiving treatment. She had been to see a medical gentleman three days running, and he could give her no relief, and she had no sleep. I asked her to sit down-she had only just come in out of the rain-and I did not know her, although I knew her father. She was in a very bad way and had her handkerchief over her face. I pave her relief, and afterwards I learned that she had never had anything the matter with her since. 7 What"was the nature of the ailment?--You had better ask the medical man. lam willing to give the name of the young lady to the Minister of Health. I think she was suffering from neuralgia and insomnia/ Those are three cases, but I could go on and give you the case of a voting lady who lives within a stone's throw of this building, and who had been attended by medical gentlemen. She had been operated on for cancer, and I may say that organic cancer cannot be cured, but there are cases of cancer which, if taken in time, can be treated. A legal gentleman in this town asked me if I would call on this lady. I never heard of and never saw her before Her mother told me that it was proposed to have a second operation, which she and the girl s father were opposed to The father, I may say, is a gentleman who has occupied a high position in the Government of this colony, and is living in this city. In less than six weeks that young lady was cured, and I believe she is now married. 8 In what cases do you think mental healing is of special benefit?— There you open up a large branch-larger even than the medical profession itself. You have to deal not only with the mental and magnetic phase, but the spiritual phase. You have to get the assistance of spiritual entities and if you have a particular organization or power which permits of these entities working through you you are able to send out" sufficient of your nerve-force to affect your patient I have an instrument which shows and proves the existence of nerve-force in any individual of this city 1 exhibited it and a medical gentleman belonging to the Government examined it, but no_ notice was taken of it. The Evening Post published the particulars concerning this marvellous instrument as having been exhibited in Paris, and yet this instrument had been in my hands for some

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time past and was not deemed to be worthy of notice. It is open to any gentleman present to see it, aad I would be pleased to send it up for the inspection of the Committee. It is no use unless you sit quietly in a room and get into the proper position, and then you can test it to half a degree as to what power you have, I have had the instrument exhibited on the public platform, and yet no one has taken any notice of it here. If you have the particular organization whereby this nerve-force can be augmented, then you may be very successful in putting the patient into what may be termed a magnetic or psychological sleep. In the psychological sleep undoubtedly a great deal of good can be effected. The patient gets rest, and your magnetism gets en rapport with him, and you are able to give the healing power required. In Liverpool last year, on the 28th December, over thirty medical men of the organized profession of M.D.s had registered themselves as a society for practice under this and other similar methods. In London, Dr. Wallace, who was for seven years a lecturer in an Edinburgh college, is now practising off Oxford Street in the West End in no other manner than this. I met him there and had a long conversation with him, and I also visited the Salpetriere Hospital in Paris, but I could not get much information on the subject, through not understanding the language. I have also had the work of Dr. Bunt and Dr. Fere, two eminent physicians practising there. There are other schools in France, including the Nancy School and two others that I know of. All these three institutions largely use these different forms of treatment for patients who may be susceptible to them. I do not say this treatment cures all cases, but in a great many cases a great deal of good can be effected by the judicious use of this kind of treatment. 9. Can you name any other authorities—eminent men —who support this form of treatment?— Yes, there is Dr. Lloyd Tuckey, a very eminent physician, and there is Professor J. D. Quackenboss. I have the latter's work, but the works on this subject are very numerous. 10. They are men of standing? —Of undoubted standing. Then, there is the Rev. Dr. Peebles, who has been here in Wellington. He has been five times round the world. He only took his degree as a medical man after he attained the age of fifty, for he was twenty-two years in the ministry and attained to the head of his profession as a minister of the Gospel. Now he practises entirely his mental and magnetic treatment, and surely he is a man of very great standing. If I had thought it had been a question of names I could have procured many. Then there is another branch of this subject. Here is a view of the Los Angeles College of Osteopathy and the annual for 1906-7, which gives an account of the whole of their work. [Produced.] 11. Can you explain the form of treatment? —It is a science of natural resistance and relief or recovery, in any way you can afford relief by any of these means. 12. Are you aware whether any Royal Commissions have recommended this form of treatment for insanity? —Yes, and I am aware that a great deal has been done in India in this direction. I have been urging the Government for years to try and do something in this direction, without effect, but the time will come when they will. They have not evolved far enough yet, lam afraid. 13. You notice that this Bill treats metaphysicians as unregistered practitioners, and consequently they will be unable to advertise their form of treatment? —Would you, for argument's •sake, prohibit a man, say, like Francis Slater from practising, when as a matter of fact he cures people by thousands ? Would you prevent a man who gets up at 4or 5 o'clock in the morning and finds hundreds of carriages and thousands of people standing alongside his fences, and who has to go alongside perhaps thousands of sick and poor people to treat them, and who cures nearly the whole of them before breakfast? He takes no money, receives no presents —in fact, takes nothing at all. There is a man at the present time in New York who has arrived from India and is able to do, perhaps, not quite so much, but does a great deal of good. Would you prevent men like John R. Newton, who has cured hundreds of people on the lines that I have pointed out? 14. How would you draw the line between the bona fide capable metaphysician and the fraud? —That would be a matter for the Government to deal with. How do you draw the line between the ordinary medical practitioner and the expert? There are any number of medical practitioners who study one particular line, and surely some consideration should be given to men of this character. 15. But you are aware that this mental healing is taken up by a number of men who know nothing about it, and who simply prey on the public?—l would prevent any man giving any kind of medicine. I have never given anything but magnetized water, and if that did not do any good it would not do any harm If you put a glass of magnetized water amongst thirty glasses of nonmagnetized water it oould be picked out easily by the clairvoyant every time. 16. Do you think that in the treatment of disease a man should have some knowledge of anatomy and physiology ?—Yes, I quite agree with that. Let me give you another case, which has just come to my mind. It is that of a lady who had her arm bandaged up and who could not move it. She came to me with a lady friend of hers, and in a very short time she was all right. There was no knowledge exhibited there, but you simply know where to apply the suggestions, as it were. 17. Do you know many mental healers who are practising in this colony? —I do not know man}' of them—l do not travel much—but there are a good number of them, I believe. 18. Do you think they should be protected under this Bill and their interests safeguarded?— I think one member representing the metaphysical school should be on the proposed Board. Then, I think it would be right if you passed another clause, say 15a. because the Committee might frame the clause to suit themselves. I would suggest something of this kind: "That nothing in this Act shall be taken to apply to mental or magnetic masseurs, metaphysicians, electro- or osteopathy practitioners." I admit that there is a difficulty—that there are plenty of men and women who take up mental healing who do not know much more than the -taking of the half-crowns—but the same thing applies to medical men. Men and women die under the treatment of medical men. 19. But you recognise that we have some sort of protection in those cases in the shape of an examination which insures the possession of knowledge, standing, and character? —If you had men on the Board that would impress people it would be all right, and who would see that Smith or Jones, who wanted to be registered, was a respectable man and had some knowledge—say, a clairvoyant or something of that kind.

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20. You have not formed an association yet for New Zealand ?—No; we have a number of spiritualistic associations. We are forming an association, and hope that by February we shall get it into working-order. It is to our advantage that nothing is done in the guise of spiritualism except by suitable persons. That is our object in forming a national organization. That would ■nean having some control over these people. Unless a person were known by these societies he should not be allowed to practise. 21. As to the metaphysicians who are not spiritualists: do you not think they should form an association 1— That would be for them to do if they chose. Under this Bill, I tell you frankly that if my friend was ill and I could treat him I would do so, even if I were sent to prison for it. 22. Would you favour the proposal that all those who have been in practice for three years or over as bona fide metaphysicians should not be required to be examined under this Bill ?—Yes. 23. And would you recommend a regulation being made that all future metaphysicians should pass an examination in physiology and anatomy?— They have to do that if they come under that particular branch. 24. What I mean is this: Should there not be some test of the person's knowledge as to physiology and anatomy, and also as to his ability to treat successfully from a mental and magnetic standpoint? —Not necessarily from a mental and magnetic standpoint, for this reason: Frequently, if a person goes into a trance, the assumption is that the person operating in the trance condition is a qualified man, simply using the entity as the instrument. 25. Should there not be some test as to the person's ability? —If he is practising as a metaphysician there might be, but if practising merely as a mental and magnetic healer it is quite a different thing. 26. I understand that Messrs. Helps and Shaw, of Christchurch, simply treat from the mental point of view, and they are not spiritualists in any sense?— What is the mental treatment? You enter there upon a great field of thought. What is the mind? Does the mind act apart from the body? If it does not it is not worth a snap of the fingers. 27. Mr. Gray.] Who is to judge of the capabilities of these metaphysicians or mental healers? What would you suggest? —I do not offer any opinions with regard to metaphysicians. They are a school by themselves. But with regard to magnetic and mental or spiritual healers, there are societies established in their interests. We have a registered society in this city which is registered under the Unclassified Societies Registration Act. We have a committee, with property of our own, and a president and secretary. Undoubtedly, if these persons had to be registered they would need to have some kind of certificate from the society that they were honest and capable people. As President I would not like to associate with any person who was a fraud, and therefore we try to keep our platform as respectable as possible. We have visitors from other parts of the world of good standing, and we have a lady now coming here who stands very high in reputation. Therefore, so far as the spiritualistic and magnetic healers are concerned, they will be obliged to register their societies. 28. What registered societies are there? —We have one in Wellington. I have been president of it for twenty-five years. 29. Are there other registered societies? — Our society is the Wellington Association of Spiritualists (Registered), and we have a hall in Kent Terrace called the New Century Hall. 30. Have you any standard examination? —No. What happens frequently is this: There are what we term developing circles or classes. I carried on a class for nearly forty-six weeks, and had thirty-five members as a start, but they came down to twenty-eight. They all attended for the whole forty-six weeks, and I never charged any of them a penny. They got instruction, and some of them got control in the trance condition. Sometimes they go outside your influence altogether. Take the case of the great seer, Andrew Jackson Davis, who was only a shoemaker's apprentice, and at fourteen years of age had never been to school. He was put into one of these conditions by Professor Grimes and got out of the professor's control. He has written " Nature's Divine Revelations," and knows a great deal of the physical sciences. Sir Oliver Lodge has quite recently stated in Birmingham that soon the whole of the sciences will have to be placed on a spiritualistic or psychological basis. 31. Is the power to treat cases of mental or physical disease not the result of a gift that some person has, rather than the result of training?— But you may have the gift and not know it unless you have it developed. Many people had the gift of music before the piano came into use. 32. The mere fact of a number of persons joining your association or society and being connected with it for a certain time does not justify them in practising the treatment of disease? — Quite so. I will give you the case of a gentleman who is practising now in Wellington—a Mr. Hancock. He was a shoemaker, and had no education whatever; but he sat for three years developing this gift. I know what I say because I assisted. He sat for three years, and has been practising ever since. As I said, he had no education, and yet I think he has been fairly successful. A prominent Wellington business man told me that he had done more good to his wife than any medical man in the town. 33. It is more a gift than a matter of training? —Undoubtedly it is a gift, but it requires a lot of sitting and patience. You want to have the patience of Job to undertake this work. 34. You referred to several cases, and one in connection with a patient in a hospital: was that simply a mental disease? —It was a case of neurosis of the worst kind. It was pure obsession in the case of the patient I alluded to. Otherwise, do you think that in ten minutes I could have effected what I did? They had to put the food in by a little window. You can inquire from Dr. Hacon as to whether the facts are what I state. The food had to be put through the window, and they could not get any clothing on to the patient, and yet in ten minutes' time after I had got the patient by the two hands I was able, by using the force 1 had, to effect a cure. The first remark of the patient was, " Where am I? " and I said, " Quick, out of this." There was a cab at the door, and I had her out with the sister. She was taken from the Hokitika Mental Hospital in

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charge of three assistants. Dr. Hacon told me that that was the worst case he knew of, and it was clearly a case of obsession. 35. Did you mesmerise her 2—No, you cannot mesmerise them when they are in that stage, lv the initial stages you might. I will give you another case, which occurred in the Wellington Mental Hospital very recently. I felt very sore over it, but it does not matter very much as lam not looking for patients. I received a letter from a patient, who asked me if 1 would call to see him. I did not know him, but 1 called and I found his wife, and little baby sitting on his knee, in the large room. I knew the wife, and had known her before she was married, and she asked me if I could assist him. I said I would try to do so. I asked he;. , if I could get a private room, and I went into a large dining-room. There was no one there but the wife, the child, and the man, and he told me he was suffering from " voices " —hearing all kinds of bad language—and that he could not sleep at night. I gave him a treatment by suggestion. 86. Medicine? —No. I sometimes take hold of the haads and press the median nerve with both thumbs; then I fix their eyes and try to give them suggestions and put them to sleep. If you do not succeed with the suggestions you try the passes and try to soothe them to sleep. The next Saturday when I went to see him he said lie was very much better. He told the medical man that he had had the treatment and was very much better, but I was not allowed to go into the private room again. Now, what chance had a man of treating a patient amongst a lot of howling lunatics? I felt rather sore about it, but lam not looking for patients. 37. With reference to the case where three doctors attended the patient and an operation was performed : what was the nature of that case ?—The patient was suffering from gall-stones, and inflammation set in; in addition he could not get any sleep. If a man goes without sleep, any medicine you give after a certain time, instead of effecting a cure, makes him worse, and it affects his brain. I got hold of this man's hands and commenced to make passes —to soothe him and to make suggestions —and in about half an hour's time he was fast asleep. There was rather a funny aspect of the case. The man said he saw me go downstairs, talk to his mother-in-law, and followed me up to my house in Home Street, and then he lost me. 38. But how did that do away with the gall-stones?—lt simply gave him sleep, and when the medical men came along they said they would be able to perform the operation if he could get sleep. They asked if any one could help, and his wife thought of me. Then the doctors came next day, and he was ready for the operation, which was successfully performed. 39. Supposing the profession of metaphysician were recognised by law and that metaphysicians were allowed to practise, how would you, for the protection of the public, differentiate between those who were competent and those who were not competent—those who might prey upon the people as charlatans do at the present time?—l have already stated that the metaphysicians should speak for themselves, but I think 1 stated that with regard to mental, magnetic, or spiritual healers, if it was left to the regular organized bodies to give them a certificate before they were permitted to advertise or practise, that would in a measure meet the case so far as this class of people are concerned. 40. But still it would not prevent people practising who were not competent—the same, for instance, as yourself and others that you know are?— Well, you never get perfection in this world. Even politicians are not always perfect. 41. Hon. Mr. Fowlds.'] Following up the point that Mr. Gray has been dealing with, you would recommend that the Board should accept the certificate of the registered societies as to the fitness of any member to practise? —Yes, before being allowed to practise or to advertise. 42. But when they got the certificate you. would admit them? —Undoubtedly. I suppose the Board will make some regulation as to fees. Now, the fees are very reasonable. I know in some cases they charge about £1 a week for attendance every day, and there is no medicine in that case. If there are three or. four visits they may charge us. a visit, not more. I have a very much stronger case than any I have yet mentioned, that happened not very long ago. It took up a great deal of my time. It was a case of cancer, and the patient died. Organic cancer cannot be cured, but I kept him alive six months after the doctors had given him up. 43. You think that a certificate from the registered society should be sufficient evidence before the Board to authorise the person holding it to practise?— Yes, under regulations as to fees and so on. 44. Mr. Hornsby.] I suppose you are aware that there are members of the medical profession in this colony who practise hypnotism? —I do not know many of them. 45. Have you ever heard of Dr. ?—Yes. Dr. told me I was the only man he had met who knew anything about it in New Zealand. 46. He does not follow the practice?— No. The patient I have mentioned wrote to Dr. and asked him if he would take him on, but Dr. wrote stating that he could not take him on after the diagnosis given by the Wellington medical men. 47. Do you know of other medical men who have practised with hypnotism?—l have heard so. 48. You are also aware that this power, if possessed by an unscrupulous individual, might be used for very nefarious practices?—lf you look at my pamphlets in the Parliamentary Buildings you will find that I have used the same expression. 49. Then, you acknowledge that there should be some control over these people?— Yes. 50. Have you read clause 5 of the Bill, where it deals with the unregistered practitioner? Yes. 51. " Any unregistered practitioner within the Colony of New Zealand may make application to the Board for the right to advertise any preparation or curative treatment for any disease or complaint, and the Board may, if reasonably satisfied of the efficacy of such treatment or preparation and of the bona fides of such unregistered practitioner, issue to any such person a certificate authorising such treatment or use of such preparation or treatment by such unregistered practitioner " ?—Yes; and they would never issue a single certificate outside their own profession. What chance should I have, for instance?

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52. But this Board is composed of responsible people? —Yes, but I would ask that some one should be on the Board to represent the metaphysicians. 53. The Ghatrma>n\.~\ He might be outvoted? —Yes, but he would have the power of appeal to the Supreme Court. 54. Mr. Hornsby.] With reference to the case of insomnia that you dealt with: I suppose you know, as a matter of fact, from your own knowledge, that numbers of medical men use and exert the influence you speak of to calm and soothe a patient?—l do not know that many of them do. It requires time and a great deal of patience and perseverance, and the medical man has not the time unless he takes special pains. He must also have the same knowledge as the other man to treat on his lines. 55. You said that this Bill would give the medical fraternity an undue monopoly? —Yes. 56. Is that quite fair in face of the fact that the Bill provides for registration and the right to practise as unregistered practitioners I —l think so, because I am quite sure a certificate would not be given to any one to practise until he had passed some kind oi examination. 57. But do you not see that in the interpretation clause there is a Board set up for the parties, giving power to deal with these cases?— Yes. I have had one of the gentlemen from, the Health Department, and he examined my instrument, but he never said anything about it, and yet the Evening Post after a long time gave a description of it. 58. If this Bill provides that, after hearing the evidence of tKe mental healers and others, the Board may, if it sees fit, make regulations safeguarding their interests, then you would have no objection to the Bill?— Certainly not. 59. You agree with the Bill? —Yes, with the safeguards I have mentioned. I think it is a very good Bill otherwise. Richard Atrbs examined. . (No. 2.) 60. The CJiairman.] What are you by occupation?— Herbalist. 61. Where do you carry on business? —In Cuba Street, Wellington. 62. How long have you been established in Wellington here?— Twenty-eight years. 63. Have you read the provisions of the Quackery Prevention Bill? —Yes. 64. Will you kindly state to the Committee, as concisely as possible, your views thereon? —I think the Bill is an honest attempt and a fairly able attempt to grapple with a difficult subject. 65. Are there any clauses in it to which you take exception?— There is one clause which I think bristles with a few difficulties, and that is the clause relating to depositing the formula — clause 4, where it provides that the formula, with samples, must be deposited with the Board. It seems hardly fair, after a man has spent a number of years in perfecting a formula, that he should have to part with it, even if it be only to a Board, because he is parting with that which produces in a large measure, if not entirely, his livelihood. Then, again, I think a difficulty might crop up there. Ido not say it would; but unless a man were honest in depositing that formula, Ido not see how you are going to get in many instances the correct formula. 66. The composition of the medicine can be analysed?--You can analyse to a certain degree, 'and you have no difficulty in finding out certain poisons, but in vegetable substances you may find some of them, but it is a matter of impossibility to get the different proportions, and that is where I see the difficulty would come in, providing people were not honest in giving the exact formula. 67. You are aware that in connection with many standard medicines the formula is supplied on the bottle —like Fellows's syrup?— Yes, that is so. 68. You are a herbalist, you say?— Yes. 69. Is what you sell confined to herbalist's preparations?— No. I may say that I am an eclectic. I believe in taking the good out of every system. 70. I suppose herbalists make up their preparations from formula; supplied in books? —Yes. 71. You are aware that a number of patent medicines are made from formulas contained in books ?—I dare say a number are. 72. And a number advertised as proprietary medicines or as secret medicines are as a matter of fact obtained from formulae used in different countries?— There may be some; I could not say. 73. Do you not think that a man supplying medicine should have some knowledge of physiology and anatomy?—l do. 74. And that before treating maladies he should be able to diagnose correctly?—l think every man ought to have sufficient knowledge for that. 75. Seeing that Herbalists sell medicines that are not purely of a herbal nature, and that chemists and druggists have to pass an examination, do you not think that herbalists should have to pass some examination as to their knowledge of drugs, and the effects and action of such different medical preparations made up by them ?—Our association has particular provision made for the passing of such an examination. 76. Will you give the Committee an idea of the provision made? —The secretary is here, and can give you that; but the members have to pass an examination in physiology and anatomy, and the properties of the various constituents which they use in medicine—in fact, a modified medical examination. 77. Who sets the examination ?—Mr. Niel in Dunedin, myself, and Mr. Hepworth. 78. Have they passed any examination themselves under any standard body?— Mr. Niel has passed an examination and has a certain degree. 79. From what body?— Some American institution. I think he attended for two sessions at one college there. 80. There is no particular qualification laid down in your rules?—We have to find the best materials ourselves. We claim to be competent to examine persons in our particular business. 81. How do you get at the qualifications?—We have certain text-books on which we have to examine, and the examination takes in physiology, anatomy, and botanic materia medica.

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82. You prescribe the books yourselves? —Yes. 83. You are aware that there are persons carrying on business as herbalists without much knowledge of it?—l am aware of that. 84. Is it true that sometimes these persons carry on business of an objectionable character? — I suppose that is true of every business. It applies to ours as well; but I do not think you will find so large a proportion in our business as in others. 85. Do all the herbalists hold certificates —those that are in business? —Not all that are in business. There are a number that are unregistered. 86. What do you suggest in order to bring these people into line, so as to bring about some sort of responsibility? —We suggest that every one shall become a member of our association, but we have certain qualifications. There are some that \ye would not permit to join. 87. You think that some law should be made to prevent them becoming practitioners? —I think the public should be protected against persons having no knowledge of the business. 88. Under what Act is your association constituted? —It is registered under the Unclassified Societies Act. 89. You say that you object to the formula being disclosed? —Yes, I think it is unfair to ask for that. 90. In what way would you suggest that the public should be protected against what you know to be worthless nostrums being put on the market, and people being deceived as to their effect?--My view of it is that a sample of each medicine or preparation should be submitted to the Board, in order that it might have an analysis made of it, and if on the basis of the analysis it was considered that the medicine or preparation was injurious, then the Board should prohibit the sale of it as worthless 91. Then, you would place in the hands of the analyst or the Board the right to say whether f. so-called medicine was a valuable one or not? —Yes, providing there was a Court of Appeal, of course. 92. Son. Mr. Fowlds.] And that the Supreme Court —is that satisfactory? —Yes. It is a little costly, but you cannot have everything. 93. With regard to the question of supplying the formula, it seems to me that to analyse all the samples submitted by all the chemists and herbalists and others prescribing medicines throughout the colony would require an enormous staff of analysts, all of which could be avoided by the deposit of the formula. It is a very simple thing to analyse a medicine or chemical when you know the ingredients, but not when you start to find them out, and I think the binding of the Board to secrecy in the matter of disclosing the formula would be enough?—We are all members of a union. A man may be a member of the Board this year and not the next year, and unless he was an honourable man the door would be open to him to use this formula to his own advantage. 94. But suppose a penalty were put in the Bill to provide against his using his knowledge, either as a member of the Board or on his retiring from it?— Yes, if you knew that the person was using the knowlege obtained, but he might use it in a way that you would not know. 95. The Chairman.] The difficulty would be to bring it home to him? —Yes. 96. Hon. Mr. Fowlds.] Do you think there is much greater safety to the owner of the formula m leaving it to the Board to get the preparation analysed? —Certainly, I should consider it very much so. But there would be another objection, and this would apply to patent medicines. 1 have had a great deal of experience with patent medicines. There are some that are really good, while there are others that are worthless, and the proprietors of those that are really good would object to depositing the formula; consequently you would not only lose the use of these medicines, but the Government would lose the Customs duties levied upon them. 97. Mr. Ilornsby.] You say it would be unfair to part with the formulae of these patent medicines : are you not aware that in Germany, the United States especially, and in other countries as well, every medicine made up, whether patent or prescribed, has to have on the outside of the bottle the whole contents stated ? —Yes, I am aware of that. 98. Now, if it is not unfair in Germany, the United States, and in the other countries, why should it be unfair in this country?—l should consider it very unfair in this country. 99. But if they have carried on for very many years under a law of this kind in other countries, and they seem to think it is all right, because there does not appear to be any drop in the number of these medicines, the proprietors of which appear to do well and are flourishing, why should it not be practicable here for the protection of the public?—lt may be practicable, and the objections I have raised may not have much in them. 100. You know the British Pharmacopoeia, and that there are thousands of remedies to be found there; also another work, where there are 5,000 formulse advertised? —Yes.^ 101. I put it to you as a man of the world as well as a professional man, is it not a fact that the general public do not bother their heads as to how these preparations are made up, so long as they get cured? —That is a fact, no doubt. 102. With regard to the admission of herbalists, I suppose you are aware of the fact that I am endeavouring in this Bill to give the herbalists of this country a standing they never had before? Yes; and I think they are very grateful on that account. 103. When this Bill passes, if it does pass, you will have a standing in the community which α-ou never previously had. You know that when the Pharmacy Bill was passed those chemists who had been in practice for years did not have to pass an examination, but that those who afterwards came in had to be examined ?—Yes. 104. Then, yoti would not object if this Bill dealt with herbalists in the same way, so that they would not be called upon to pass an examination ? —No. 105. That would tend to protect you? —Yes—that is, an examination on the lines which the rules of our association provide.

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106. Your only objection seems to be that everybody, whether a herbalist, chemist, or any one else, would have to make known the contents of the medicines they put on the market: you understand the difference in a man going into a place and getting medicine prescribed and the selling of a pill, draught, or anything else I —Yes. 107. The only difference under this Bill is that if a chemist or any one else sells a proprietary medicine he must supply the formula ?—Yes. 108. I want you to understand that any man going into a herbalist's shop can be prescribed for under this Bill, and there is no necessity to deposit that formula with the Board? —I understand that. 109. With regard to the constitution of the Board, I might say that we are all human, and that certain things might be done; but does it not commend itself to your common-sense that this Board would be composed of men of such high standing that there is not one chance in a million of any unfair practice being carried on by the Board 1 You see that the constitution provides for the highest men being picked out of the wrofessions I—l1 —I said " honourable men." 110. Would any but honourable men get the positions?— That is the point. \ Benjamin Freebury Gardiner examined. (No. 3.) 111. The Chairman.'] What is your occupation? —Medical herbalist. 112. Where do you carry on business? —At 50 Cuba Street, Wellington. 113. How long have you been in business? —I ten years, and my partner, Mr. Hardie, about twenty-five years. 114. Have you passed any examination?— No. I 15. Have you read the provisions of this Bill? —Yes. 116. You are the secretary of the New Zealand Association? —Yes. The New Zealand Association of Medical Herbalists has been established for about two years. 117. 1 presume you are speaking on behalf of the association? —Partly on behalf of the associa tion and partly on behalf of the firm. 118. Having read the provisions of this Bill, are there any clauses which you or.your society take any exception to; if so, state the particulars'—There is only one clause, and that is as to what constitutes a registered herbalist. 119. AVhat is your view? —Taking the Bill altogether, I should say a member of the association; but looking at these things it is not always what is intended that is made clear. 120. Mr. Hornsby.] What is your objection?—l want to know what is a registered herbalist. 121. A herbalist registered under your society?— Yes, that is sufficient for me. 122. The Chairman.] You think the herbalist should be registered under-your association? —I think " registered herbalist " should be denned so as to give the exact meaning. 123. Is there any other suggestion you wish to make?— With reference to the disclosure of the formulae, I think the public should be protected, and I do not see any way save this. There are objections, but I suppose there would be objections to anything. 124. Do you think it would open up a larger field of business for New Zealand herbalists and chemists if a great deal of what we know as worthless medicines were got rid of?—I think on the whole it would tend to be beneficial. 125. You are aware that there are so-called medicines largely advertised which are practically of little value, and are often of a harmful nature?— Yes, I think there are a good many instances where the bottle and the label are about the worth of the article. 126. And you are also aware) no doubt, from your reading and knowledge that with regard to many valuable standard medicines the formulae are supplied on the labels? —Yes, in other countries that is so. 127. And that many of these so-called patent medicines are simpy taken from formulae or prescriptions that are obtained from books bearing on the subject? —Yes, I think there are some.^ 128. After all, having regard to the medicines that are well known, is there so much originality in connection with the make-up and manufacture of so-called patent medicines as alleged?— Thai is rather a difficult question to answer where one does not know the formula. Unless one knows the formula one cannot talk with any degree of certainty of lines like those. 129. No doubt you have seen the results of analyses of patent medicines?—l am afraid a great deal of the analyses are worthless. One chemist will say one thing and one another. It seems to me it is rather a difficult matter to get at the result. 130. You know that in murder cases a man's life might depend upon the evidence of the analyst? That is so; but still I maintain that the result is no credit to chemistry. If you take any formula, especially vegetable compounds, they will tell }'ou that one is often so-and-so, while another says it is so-and-so. 131. You have no faith in analyses? —I have in some. I have a patent medicine which it was said was submitted to a gentleman in this colony, and a fee of £10 was paid to him for analysing it, and the result was as different as chalk from cheese. 132. Is that man a medical man in this country?— Yes; I believe he is Dr. Black, of Christchurch. 133. What was the article?— Mr. Palmer said it was absolutely different to their own formula. 134. It was Vitadatio? —Yes; and he said it was entirely different, and he was prepared to give the formula. 135. You are aware that the evidence of analysts is accepted by the highest Courts in the WO rld? That is so. I think certain things can be found, but there are others that cannot be found. We may to a large extent give the principals, but not the actual component parts. 136. You have never passed any examination in chemistry?—No; I am only giving my opinion,

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137. You simply speak as a layman? —Yes. 138. Mr. Hornsb'i/.] You have a society now registered, and have rules and regulations governing that society ?—Yes. 139. You have prescribed in those rules the examination which shall be passed by anybody desiring to join your association ?—That is so. 140. Your rules absolutely bar any herbalist from advertising anything with regard to sexual remedies or diseases of the urinary organs?— Yes. 141. In fact, in your rules you are safeguarding the public, but you are endeavouring as far as possible to maintain the reputation of the registered herbalists of this colony I—That1 —That is so. 142. You will be prepared under this Bill to send to the Board an authorised representative of your association to sit as a member of it?— Yes. 143. With regard to prescriptions, and the revealing of remedies, and so forth: as a matter of fact, you know that doctors have to give in the aggregate every day thousands of prescriptions to chemists to make them up; these prescriptions are left in their hands, and they can make use of them as they think fit?— Yes. Strictly speaking, they are the property of the patient or doctor; but all chemists enter them in their book, and can make use of them. 144. So that doctors are just as much in the hands of those to whom they confide their prescriptions as you would be if you sent your formulae or your various medicines to this Board?—ln a way, that is so. 145. I am glad to find that you say personally there is bound to be some trouble or injustice always where reforms are brought in: you cannot make a reform work evenly?— There is always the possibility of hardship. 146. Speaking personally, or as a representative of a firm in this town, would you not be satisfied to trust the Board if it were constituted of men of. such high character as those selected by the Governor in Council? Would you not feel quite safe in the hands of such a Board? —Well, all men are human, and, as I say, I see no other way of arranging the matter safely, unless it was decided that, instead of calling on every one to deposit his formulae, the Board might, if it thought fit, because a certain formula was thought injurious or not what it should be, have power to call for the production of the formula. 147. They will have power ?—lf they were satisfied of the efficacy of the medicine it would not be necessary for the formula to be disclosed. 148. It is not what you prescribe in your business place or shop that we are asking for, but, if you advertise any remedy, then before you can go on selling that article it will be necessary for you to deposit with the Board the formula of it? —I quite understand that. 149. And, personally, you say you have no great objection to that?— Personally I have no objection. 150. The Chairman.] Have you held any examinations in New Zealand?. —Not yet. 151. When was your association registered? —Last year some time. 152. How many members have you on your roll? —Between twenty and thirty. 153. They have passed no examination ?—Some have. 154. Under any association? —Not under our association, save that they have been four years and over in the business. We admit no. one to membership who has not seen that amount of service. 155. What was the nature of the examination some of the members have passed?— Mr. Niel sat for two years in Dunedin, and then went to America and passed some examination there. 156. In connection with some herbalist or botanic college?—l cannot say. I know that he passed a certain examination, the specific nature of which I cannot state. Of course, some of the members are members of the British Association of Medical Herbalists. 157. Do they pass an examination to obtain that privilege?—l think there were certain exiiminations, but their character I do not know. 158. Do you herbalists prescribe for customers? —To a certain extent we do. 159. Do you not think that a person to beneficially prescribe should first be able to diagnose?— That is so. 160. And to be able to diagnose correctly should not a man have some knowledge of physiology and anatomy?— Yes. 161. And the effect of drugs on the human system?— Yes. 162. Do you not think it is a serious thing to allow a man to dispense medicines or drugs without possessing some knowledge of medicine?— Yes; knowledge of his own particular department, anyway. 163. Do you require any of your members to have any knowledge of diathetics? —The association is for the purpose of uplifting our profession and urging every member to make himself as perfect as possible, to help each other, and to diffuse information among members. 164. What penalties do you enforce for breach of your regulations?— The extreme penalty is expulsion from the association. That is all we can do at present. 165. There is nothing to prevent any person setting up as an herbalist and prescribing or selling medicines? —Our intention was to approach Parliament this year, suggesting that a status should be given herbalists on somewhat the same lines as is given to pharmaceutical chemists. If that were done, not only would the herbalist be protected, but the public also. 166. Do you not think your examiners should have some educational standing?—l think every examiner has a very practical education. 167. But should he not be required to pass some examination, or hold some diploma or certificates from professional or expert examiners? —I do not know that you can get anything better than practical knowledge. 168. But what guarantee have the public got that the examiners have practical knowledge?— t think if a man has been twenty or thirty years in one place of business he must have the respect

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of the people there, or must move. We are not here to-day and gone to-morrow, and if a man is from twenty to thirty years in one town the public, I think, have a keen idea as to his capabilities. 169. Would that give him the same knowledge and professional ability a.s if he had passed a proper standard examination: would it be a guarantee that he had the knowledge?—l think it would be a better guarantee. 170. If a person had been in business for a certain time, calling himself a doctor, a chemist, a lawyer, or a shorthand reporter, would you consider that to be a sufficient guarantee as regards his knowledge and ability to deal with the particular subject without his being called upon to pass an examination I —Take it in this way: When the Midwives Bill, the Dentists Bill, and the Chemists Bill were passed, those who had been in the business for a certain number of years were taken in. Afterwards the door was closed. 171. But do you not recognise this: that when herbalists are allowed to give medicines or drugs which may have a most injurious effect on the patient—particularly when prescribed by them—they should be required to have a true knowledge of the nature of the ailment or nature of the action of the drug or medicine on the system?—l have already said that I think they should have knowledge. I believe we have three of the highest men as examiners in the colony. 172. Will you kindly name them?— They are Mr. Niel, Mr. Ayres, and Mr. Hepworth. 173. Mr. Hornsby.] Where is Mr. Hepworth located? —I think he is at Wanganui, but until lately he was at Palmerston North. They are men who have seen twenty or thirty years' experience each.

Wednesday, 14th August, 1907. James Malcolm Mason, M.D, examined. (No. 4.) 1. The Chairman.'] You are Chief Health Officer of the colony? —Yes. 2. You have perused the Quackery Prevention Bill now before the Committee? —Yes. 3. Does it meet with your approval? If so, in what directions? —It certainly meets with my approval in most directions, but it goes further than I think it is probably politic to go in some ways. 4. Do you think the Bill is necessary ?—Oh, yes. 5. Why?— Probably if I were just to tell you a little of what I know about the matter it would be of assistance. Eoughly speaking, you may divide proprietary medicines into three classes — first, those that are the result of research on the part of the proprietor; second, those that are made up according to formulae which have been taken from some ordinary book on medicine and the whole energy of the proprietary expended in advertising them; third, a class which is absolutely bad. The number of the first class —that is, where the medicine or compound is the result of research on the part of the vendor —is very, very small. The vast majority of the patent medicines on the market, which are not absolutely harmful, are simply formulae which have been taken from some standard book of medicine, or the prescription of some medical man. A favourite source of the so-called herbal remedies is Nicholas Culpepper's "Herbal," published some two hundred years ago. Most of the modern herbalists are still copying the prescriptions which Culpepper set out in his old book, and I might say that many of the formulae advocated by him are excellent. The class of quacks I have been most interested in is not the man who is simply charging more money for the medicine than it is worth. Into such a class Pink Pills would probably come. Pink Pills are nothing more than Blaud's pill, which has been known for many years. Blaud was a London physician. The Pink Pills people have simply taken his formula and advertised it well. The pill is a very good pill. It is one that nearly every medical man prescribes at one time or another. The only objection that can be raised is that the Pink Pill people make extravagant claims for the medicine, and charge a great deal more for it than would the ordinary chemist. The'blass of people I am most interested in are {hose who pretend to cure sexual ailments. The large majority of these so-called treaters of sexual ailments are nothing more than blackmailers. I have numerous documents on my file connected with these cases, but many cases have come to me in the course of my professional work, and I cannot give the names of the parties. A very common practice with such men as Freeman and Wallace, and many others of that type, is to circulate books and pamphlets .on sexual ailments in schools. Many boys are guilty of masturbation, and in these little pamphlets the results of this habit are pictured in the most awful language. The result is that the boy guilty of the habit becomes for the time being practically unnerved. He is told that the only salvation for him is to send to the publisher of the book, and the boy scrapes up enough money to get some of the medicine. 6. You are quoting from actual cases within your knowledge? —Yes. The boy I refer to was the son of a clergyman who was very strict. The boy lived in the country, where he saw few women at all, and the result was that he naturally blushed a good deal when in the company of women, which is an indication, according to the class of men referred to, that he was suffering from nervous debility. This boy got into communication with one of these men (not Freeman and Wallace), with the result that he spent all his money. Several months afterwards, when he had ceased to send for the medicine, they kept on writing him letters, usually marked " Private " and in such a way as to keep them outside the law. The form of the letter was something like this : "We regret to see that you have not been getting your medicine lately." The boy replies that he is getting very much better, although he is practically worse mentally, but he has no money to forward. He reads the books by candle-light in his own room or in outhouses to escape observation. He receives another letter to the effect that they know by observation of such cases that he cannot possibly be cured in the time, and that they feel it to be their -duty in the interests of the boy to

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communicate with his father to see if paternal advice cannot persuade the boy to continue the treatment. The result is that the boy gets a little more money in order to avoid communication with his father, and so the thing goes on. The end of the particular case I refer to was that the boy came to me for something else. He was practically out of his mind, in a measure, and I said, "Don't you worry. Tell this man that you have seen me," and the boy never heard anything more of the matter. Nearly every medical man could give you cases like that, which have occurred in his practice. This is the type of man lam most interested in trying to stop, and I may say that through the amendment of the Postal Act last year, which gives the Postmaster-General power to decline to carry mail-matter belonging to any one advertising the treatment of sexual ailments, a very great reform has taken place. For instance, I will give you a list of firms which have been put on this black list; but it has been noticed that as soon as you schedule one name the firm takes on another. List of Persons, Institutes, and Companies the Registering, Forwarding, or Delivery of Postal Matter for whom is prohibited by the Post Office of New Zealand under Section 9 of " The Post Office Act Amendment Act, 1906." Austin, The Dr., Improved Electric Belt Company, Dept. E, corner of Princes Street and Moray Place, Dunedin. Bell, Dr. F., Sydney and Melbourne. Chapman, Mr. F., P. 0., Port Melbourne, V. Electro-medical and Surgical Institute, corner Elizabeth and Bathurst Streets, Sydney, and at Melbourne. Freeman and Wallace, Sydney and Melbourne. Freeman, H., 225-227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney. Freeman, Howard, Sydney and Melbourne. Freeman and Wallace Institute., the Secretary, corner Elizabeth and Bathurst Streets, Sydney, and at Melbourne. Howard, F., 225-227 Elizabeth Street, Sydney. Irving Homoeopathic Institute, The, corner of Hunter and Bligh Streets, Sydney. Kane Institute, 150 Queen Street, Melbourne. Kidd, Dr. James W., Box 552, Fort Wayne, Ind. Marshall Bros., Chemists, Park Street, Sydney. Poulton, R. J., Chemist, 77 Bourke Street, Melbourne. Rassmussen, Herr, 91 Lambton Quay, Wellington, N.Z. Tarrant, A. J., Medical Belt Expert, Manchester Street, Christchurch. Tiefenbeck, J. 1., Manager, Freeman and Wallace Institute, care of Queen Victoria Market P. 0., George Street, Sydney. Wallace, Dr., Sydney and Melbourne. Watson, Dr. W. Carter, Sydney Institute of Medicine and Electricity, 78 and 80 (L) Hunter Street, Sydney. White, Dr., Sydney and Melbourne. A man named Bell lectured in Christchurch and Dunedin, and, unfortunately, by some means was allowed to report his own meetings in the newspapers as if they were the bona fide work of the reporters. Of course he paid for this privilege. I saw the editor of the Lyttetton Timps and Mr. Triggs of the Christchurch Press about it, and they expressed themselves as exceedingly sorry that these reports got in, and they both assured me that such a thing would not occur again. I may say that at a meeting of the proprietors of the principal newspapers throughout the colony it was agreed not only to exclude the advertisements of the people set out in the black list given, but many others, and they came to a sort of agreement, I believe, to send on to me advertisements of a doubtful character to see if I have any objection to them. Many consult me when in doubt as to the nature of the work advertised, so that our newspapers now are perhaps the cleanest in the world. Some newspapers still contain such advertisements, but these have been contracted for and the time has not yet expired, but I have the assurance of the leading newspaper people that when the contracts expire they will not reinsert them. When many of these people on the list are stopped they alter their names and addresses. I have some samples of the literature they send out which will show you that they are undesirable people to have anything to do with. I may say that I have a frien-d who takes a very great interest in the White Cross League, and who is apparently continually suffering from sexual debility, for he writes to these people and gets this literature. The Postal people put Herr Rassmussen on the list, and immediately he issued a circular to his clients in New Zealand stating that, owing to the large number of patients, he had decided to shift to Sydney and will treat his New Zealand patients from there. As a matter of fact his place is still open here. He goes on to say, " All correspondence to Herr Rassmussen will be carried on in the name of John Drew, and all letters should be addressed to Mr. John Drew, 547 George Street, Sydney. ... In future Herr Rassmussen will attend personally to all letters from his New Zealand patients and send them any advice direct which they may require. Nothing will be charged for advice, and all correspondence will be held confidential, and remedies will be sent securely packed and in plain cover, free from all observation, and free of duty, and if it should take a week longer the patient will receive the benefit in extra advice." He says, " By patients addressing their letters to me in the name of John Drew no one will know their private business, as Herr Rassmussen's name is so familiar in reference to treatment for private complaints. Many patients have requested Herr Rassmussen to give them an opportunity to address their letters in such a way that their business would be private." That is the usual game. Then you have something similar from the "Retired Clergyman," who admits in open print that he has been guilty of the " errors of youth." Then there is the Cornish " Miner " who sends the letter: "My Deab Friend, —I have not heard from you since I sent you an

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account of my experience in search of a cure, and the remarkable manner in which I found it. I wish you could see some of the letters I receive daily from those who have been cured. The joy and gladness set forth in them does my heart good to read, and would make yours leap for joy at the certainty of being cure-d of all your troubles. If you are a sufferer do not hesitate to send at once for the Indian Herb Powder, and you will have the pleasure of feeling a return of your health, strength, and vitality day by day until you are fully restored to health, strength, and manhood. To be a strong, healthy, and vigorous man among your fellow-men is surely worth something to you. It is for your own sake I urge you to send for the cure, for you can believe me when I say that I feel an interest in all those who are suffering as I was. Kindly let me hear from you, and believe me.—Yours sincerely, A. Miner." 7. This kind of man keeps on blackmailing?— Yes, he keeps on writing, and if it is a youngster he is writing to he says he is not taking care of himself, and threatens to write to his father. This kind of man sets out the usual story that any man suffering from sexual debility should use the Indian Herb Powder. People seem to place more reliance upon medicine got from an Indian fakir, or from something procured in the swamp or bush of South America than upon ordinary treatment. He explains that he, is not making any money out of it, but he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart. The Cornish "Miner" is of the same class as the "Retired Clergyman," and his pamphlet is couched in the same words. In fact, I think they come from the same place. This is another letter from the " Electine Medicine C 0.," Ash Street, Sydney. They send a few sample pills to some clerk or girl. This is what they afterwards write: "Dear Patron, —This is the second time we have had to write, asking you to settle your account with us for the New-life Vegetable Pills we sent you on consignment, but as yet we have no record of your having sent us the money. Our contract with you was a plain, businesslike arrangement, which we are prepared to fully live up to, and we must insist on you doing likewise. You, of course, are aware that we have your written order in our office showing clearly that you undertake to sell our goods within thirty days and return us the proceeds." The man to whom this was sent had never anything to do with these people at all, but the person written to has generally to sell so many boxes of the pills, for which he gets a gilt chain or a seven-and-sixpenny watch. It is rather curious that this apparently businesslike company advertises under the authority of the Chief Health Officer of this colony. It occurred in this way. They wrote to me when the new regulations were brought in a few years ago and submitted the formula of their "Electine" remedies. I simply acknowledged the receipt of the Electine remedies and that they had been recorded. 8. The Chairman.~\ And they tortured that into an expression of approval?— Yes. 9. Do you think anything should be done to prevent tactics of this kind being adopted?— Yes, undoubtedly. Of course, as I say, lam more interested in the purely medical side of the question. There is a mistaken notion in the minds of the public that when a medical man attacks quack medicines he is an interested party. It really does not make any difference to him at all, as I pointed out to the chemists when the regulations were brought in. There are no regulations now applying to patent medicines. The only difference is that people who will not put the formula .outside will suffer, while the patent medicines used by the backblocks men will be made in the colony. The formula; of all these things are known; take many proprietary medicines owned by reputable firms, and you will find that they already have the contents on the label. Here is another letter issued by the Irving Homoeopathic Institute, which follows the style of the others: " Dear Sir, —I am justified by my experience in saying that my homoeopathic treatment will positively effect a complete and lasting cure in all forms of nerve and sexual as well as genitourinary diseases." Any one who knows anything about medicine knows that a disease of the generative organs like gonorrhoea cannot be cured by the same remedy as will cure nervous debility. " Some time since I sent you certain information describing my method of curing this class of disease, and would like to know if there are any other points upon which further information would be of service to you. If there is any doubt in your mind about my ability I shall be pleased to refer you to persons in various States whom I have treated with the most uniform success." These people all warn their clients against charlatans and quacks—they alone are right. Their medicine acts like magic, and there are the usual stories about it. Here is a letter from the Lyttelton Times people in reference to the advertising of these things: "Your letter dated the 18th instant, on the subject of certain advertisements appearing in the Canterbury Times : It will perhaps be of satisfaction to you to know that we have already marked all these down for withdrawal as soon as possible, being satisfied that their publication is not in the interests of our readers." lam glad to say that the newspapers all over the colony are helping us in every possible way. Then there are the various electric belts. Of course there are any number of them, but immediately you knock one down you get another. The dry cell is used one week and the wet cell another. 10. What is your opinion about these belts?— Generally speaking, the electric belts are fixed up without any pretence to electricity at all. One of the tricks is really to try and capture a man who thinks he knows something about electricity. On one of these belts they have a little arrangement by which you can move it an inch on, apparently to vary it, but the thing is made of vulcanite, which is really a non-conductor of electricity. Most of these electric belts get their action by putting them in vinegar, and if you know anything about vinegar you can easily understand that if you wrap it round your body and enclose the vapours, you get what you might think was a little shock. There is one variety made in Dunedin which does generate electricity. The only objection I have to that is that they make extravagant claims for it. One of the most important features in connection with advertising has reference to a delicate subject. I do not think any one should be allowed to advertise anything about masturbation, because, when talked about, it concentrates a lad's attention on a portion of his anatomy, while the only cure for this habit is to take his attention away from it. The racing of youngsters at schools and colleges is one of the best ways of keeping their attention off such habits, and it is a good way too. There is one point

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I would draw your attention to, and that is that in the circulars these men send out they ask questions which in some cases would seem to require a young fellow to masturbate himself in order to answer. Freeman and Wallace, in their book, refer to a man whose penile arrangement is small, and they suggest a sort of pump in order that the organ may be made larger. Of course, they carefully explain that although it reads like that, it is a much more intricate instrument, and can only be got through them. There is another case I will refer to, the Dr. Hinton-Willis Company, Melbourne. The letter is written to Mr. John S., , New Zealand. " Dear Sib, —Your esteemed favour to hand, and we take pleasure in forwarding herewith our treatise." It is the name of a clergyman who is helping me in this matter. "We ask you to read it carefully, for it describes a system of medical treatment which is as really unfailing as any human system can be. Men suffering from any sexual or nervous derangement find an improvement under this treatment from the first day's use, and it is absolutely the only method for which this can be truthfully claimed. The vacuum appliance is an apparatus which is used a few minutes daily, and is not worn. A full description and the manner of application is given in the first chapter of our book. We emphatically claim that by the use of the vacuum appliance a permanent restoration is effected, even where all other means have failed. If you cannot determine after reading our book what course of treatment is necessary, we will select it after receiving further information, which you will please furnish by answering the questions on the enclosed blank diagnosis form and returning same to us together with a fee of £2 and the pieces of chemically prepared paper saturated in your urine, as per the enclosed print of directions." That dodge is as old as the hills, and it can be done with litmus paper. They all play the old dodge— it is " Codlin's your friend, not Short." Then there is a small booklet on " The Three Ages of Men," which I will put in for the use of the Committee. Of course, there is a large number of men who use these means to get hold of people. In America, as you can see from Collier's Weekly, they have really a kind of exchange. 11. What is Collier's Weekly? —lt is an American paper which has done most valuable work in fighting quackery. In one illustration they set out a photogra_ph of the price-list of confidential letters. You can borrow these for so-much, and there is a regular deal done in them. Apparently a Christchurch quack has got much out of boys by threats to tell their fathers, but of course he never does. You may write to a Melbourne firm, and this man writes back to you, and you wonder how he has got to hear of it. Your only safeguard is not to answer him, otherwise he may plant something on you. In America these things are rented out, and Collier's Weekly shows you a pricelist which is like a share-list. There is a sexual-diseases reply letter, and a reply letter for those who look after the diseases of women. The letter, after it is done with, is rented to another man, who then tries to get the person to begin with his medicine. There is another aspect of this question which, in my opinion, is only second in importance to the demoralisation of the youngsters, and it refers to the man who holds out a cure for consumption or cancer. Take the case of a man who has had a little lump on his lip. It has grown very gradually, and is not very large, but his wife probably notices that he is rubbing it, and tells him that he had better go and see a doctor. The doctor, after careful examination, says that he had better have it out. The man goes home and tells his wife that he must have it out, and there is an impression that a big operation is proposed. The man cannot make up his mind, and thinks the lump is not big enough for an operation, and he puts it off month after month. A friend tells him that the doctor only wants to cut him, and the man spends the time in which a complete removal could take place, and finally goes to one of these who advertises that he can cure cancer. I would have no mercy on such men. 12. You know that a man advertises in the New Zealand Times? —That is D. P. Yonkerman. He only professes to cure consumption. That is a contract advertisement which, after expiry, Ido not think you will see again. He suggests that he replaces the iron in the blood by a preparation of copper, and by putting copper in the red blood-corpuscles the tubercle will leave. This stuff has been analysed on several occasions, and has been found to contain no copper at all. He was prosecuted recently in New South Wales, and the only suggestion of copper found, the analyst said, must have come from the badly made vessel in which the stuff had been conveyed. I have a lot of his pamphlets, and he is certainly facile princeps, a prince of quacks. Of course, you know that Mr. Labouchere publishes a most elaborate black list of these people every year, and I have personally received a very great deal of help, in tracing these various people, from the Truth office in London. There is our old friend " Peruna," which has been taken off the market here. It contains anyfhing from 30 to 40 per cent, of alcohol. It was recommended to women suckling children, and it was nothing more than a strong nip. It was crude alcohol with a little gum. It was worse than ordinary whisky. The proprietors of Peruna were prosecuted in New South Wales, and we have talked about it here in public and through the Press until they have withdrawn it from circulation. There was a leading article published against the Health Department for not putting a stop to the sale of these quack medicines, while on the back of the paper which published it was an advertisement about Peruna. This (the advertising in a day's issue of the New Zealand Herald of the Bth September, 1906) gives you an idea of the space which patent medicines used to take up in the newspapers: — Column Inches. Daily portion, news ... ... ... ... ... ... 970 ~ advertisements ... ... ... ... ... 950 Total printed space ... ... ... ... ... 1,920 Supplement portion, news ... ... ... ... ... 1,048 ~ advertisements ... ... ... ... 488 Total printed space ... ... ... ... ... 1,536

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Of the 950 inches advertisements in the daily portion, 28 inches are medicinal and healing advertisements. Of the 488 inches advertisements in the supplement portion, 230 inches are medicinal and empirical advertisements, 12 medicinal for cattle. The proprietors of these medicines issued a circular to the New Zealand papers, just as they do in America, threatening to withdraw their advertisements if any legislation was allowed to pass restricting their sale. 13. Or supporting an Anti-quackery Bill? —Yes. It stated that if at any time " any law was passed in your State interfering with the sale of our goods our contract with you ceases." 14. I saw one circular in which the vendor of a patent medicine pointed out that if the paper supported these regulations they would withdraw their advertisement, and they should consider the great loss it would be in the way of fees for advertising?— Yes. I have been able to stop, except in one or two papers, a good many quack concerns, but there is one going on which I think should not be allowed, and that is the Viavi treatment. I have been informed of one case where the patient received great harm. 15. Mr. Hornsby.] Has that reference to the lectures given in the Sydney Street Schoolroom? —Yes. This is what Mr. Labouchere says about them in Truth: "A quack establishment of American origin, dealing in remedies for female ailments. Engages women who go about the country pretending to possess medical knowledge, delivering ' health lectures,' which they have mostly learned by heart, and persuading deluded women that they are in serious danger unless they take the Viavi remedies and submit themselves to the treatment of the Viavi agents. They suggest ailments where merely nervous unrest exists, and they charge nothing for their advice, which keeps them within the four corners of the law; but they bleed their victims for external applications, which have as much virtue as did the King's touch for scrofula." 16. The Chairman.] These people are carrying on business all through New Zealand?— Yes, all over the colony. It is, of course, beyond us to control the London magazines coming in. We are not much troubled by men like Keith Harvey, who is going to cure a man who is absolutely deaf by gargling the passages of his nose, or something of that sort. I may say that " Dr." Bell, who was the apostle of Freeman and Wallace, gave the impression, so I am told, in some way in Dunedin that he was the emissary of the White Cross League. He was billed to appear in Westport, and I was billed to appear there too, but he did not come. He was ill. He has gone out of the colony now. 17. And took a lot of money with him? —Yes, it was marvellous. I was told by a man that his place was filled up by people who wanted to see him. 18. The Chairman.] What do you suggest with a view of preventing these men preying on the public?—l think, really, that the Postal Act has worked so well that it is a very important factor. The portion in the Act which proscribes the advertising of such things as treatment of sexual ailments is an excellent one, because unless you stop the advertising you will not stop the sale of these things. 19. Now, with regard to the necessity for the formulae being put on the bottles or packets?— With regard to that I certainly think everything that contains poison in any form at all should have legibly marked on the outside of the bottle, " This contains poison." It is argued by the man who only has a small amount of opium in his mixture that he should be exempted. I was told by the proprietor of one medicine that if he put that on the outside it would frighten mothers. I said that was why I wanted it. "I do not say your medicine is not good; but the mother who soothes her child with opium should know it." Ido not think it will stop every one, but lam certain that s. mother will hesitate to give her child stuff which is dependent for its soothing effect on opium. The other day a child died in Wellington, on which a post-mortem was held, and Dr. Fyffe said the child died through starvation from the amount of opium contained in the cough-mixture, the action of the opium inhibiting the action of the bowel. It was ascertained that this mixture contained a small amount of opium. The child had been fed on it for a time; so that I think, no matter how small the degree, the word " Poison " should be put on the outside of the bottle. With regard to the formula being put on, lam not entirely wedded to that. The only thing is that, with regard to a large number of patent medicines, the public would say, " Let the Public Health Department analyse it." Any one with any knowledge of chemistry knows that it is absolutely impossible to undertake the analysis of things like Vitadatio. If we started to do it, probably the vegetable mixtures would take nearly a week to separate the various things, and then we should not be able to properly separate them, because there are so many different classes. Some have fifteen or sixteen different ingredients. We as chemists, if the formulae were submitted, would have only to look for the things that are alleged to be in such compounds, instead of having the whole animal, mineral, and vegetable world to look into. Certainly, all medicines containing poisons, however small in amount, should be labelled. It is urged that to disclose the formula would give away a man's whole business. The answer to that is this: that some of the biggest sellers of medicines, like Parke, Davis, and Co., of America, Burroughs, Welcome, and Co., and a number of others, set out the contents of their compounds on the label. Take Eno's Fruit-salt. Most chemists know its composition. I could buy it cheaper, but as a matter of fact I always buy Eno's stuff, because no one is able to make it so well. It does not necessarily follow that because you know what is in a bottle you can make it up like the other man. No one knows the order in which a thing is mixed, and the mixing makes all the difference in the world. 20. Or the proportions?— Yes. For instance, if you take tincture of iron or digitalis and phosphoric acid, and you put the digitalis in after the iron, the mixture would become dirty, but if you add the phosphoric acid to your iron and then put in the digitalis you will get a beautiful green solution. The point is, that the man is not giving away his rights in any case where he is asked to give the formula. 21. It was stated by one witness that it was impossible for an analyst to find certain substances? —Yes, it would be extremely difficult; and with regard to certain American weeds used in abortion cases you would only be able to know they contained an alkaloid of a certain group.

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If, however, the stuff contained poison it should be marked " Poison," and if it contained more than a certain amount of alcohol it should be sold as an alcoholic mixture. 22. You referred to soothing syrups which are largely advertised for children : are you aware of many articles which are sold in New Zealand which are of a deleterious nature? —A great deal of Mrs. Winslow's soothing syrup used to be sold. There is not a great deal, fortunately, sold in New Zealand, but at the time it was analysed it was found to contain opium. These people have a way of altering the names and composition of their goods. 23. Do you think steps should be taken to prevent people being deceived by the so-called efficacy of medicines sold in New Zealand I —Undoubtedly. 24. And many, you say, are undoubtedly of a harmful nature ?—Yes; and many of them, of course, are good. But I object to the indiscriminate giving of these things. 25. Now, with reference to many of the foods that are advertised for infants?— With regard to some of the foods, I consider they are very good for children. 26. You are also aware that some are deficient in nourishing qualities? —I do not think we have any on our market that are absolutely bad. We have condensed milks which by the label suggest that the milk is absolutely good, but which on analysis are found to contain little or no butter fat at all; it is only skimmed milk. I had a brand with a label representing a beautiful cow walking in grass up to her neck; but since we notified the indentor about it the firm has been prosecuted in London. 27. Speaking of the formulae on labels, can you name any countries where that is the law?— Yes, they do it in Germany, in certain parts of France, and in some of the States in America. 28. Are you aware that they have recently tried in Australia to insist on the formula appearing on all bottles?—l do not know that. I know there is a report by Mr. Beale, that has been submitted to the Victorian Government, in which he advocates measures of a very much more stringent character than this. They have there a Pure Foods Bill, an excellent arrangement by which they can control infants' foods and many of the things that are now harmful. 29. Would you be satisfied with the deposit of the formula with the Board or in your office, without requiring it to be put on the label ?—Yes, so far as lam concerned; but Ido not suppose the bad man would really give me his formula at all. He would in all probability give me a wrong one; but I think, at any rate, if we were able to prove that the article did not contain the things which he stated it contained it would be a way of getting at him. One of the greatest difficulties of the present day is to carry out a prosecution for abortion. In order to get a conviction for abortion some woman has to pretend to practically incite a man to commit the crime. One woman is not enough, and the sort of woman who would go and lie for you is probably not a woman you would trust in any case. Then, you cannot get a decent woman to submit to the indignity of having such things suggested. Now, if we were able to require these unregistered people to get a permit before they were allowed to sell it would be effective; you do not require to prove that the article contains any abortifacient in it at all; you do not require to prove that he sold it for the purpose; you only require to prove that he sold it without a license. That is a very important thing. 30. As to herbalists, do you suggest any legislation should take place so far as they are concerned, or should they be exempted from this Bill?— Personally, I recognise that only one man has • a right to treat the public, and that is the man who has satisfied the law as to his qualifications. 31. Do you think it is necessary in many cases that, before treatment in the way of giving medicines takes place, a diagnosis should be made? —Absolutely. To my mind, the essence of quackery is a man treating without seeing his patient. 32. Do you think it is right, then, for an herbalist to be allowed to prescribe?— Certainly not, unless they are qualified men. 33. You do not approve of them being exempted under this Bill?— No. 3i. As registered herbalists, after passing an examination, do you think they should be allowed to prescribe?—l do not think there is any harm in a chemist giving a cough-mixture; but if a mart retails articles to suit all systems, and undertakes to classify them under one head, I think he is wrong. 35. One herbalist, on behalf of others, told us that a Board had been established and held examinations, the examinations being conducted by members of the association : would you approve of such examinations? —Certainly not, unless I understood something of them. 36. We were also told that the men conducting the examinations were not medical men—in other words, were not men who had taken a course of instruction themselves at any university? — The chemist's position is clear. You do not allow a New Zealand lad to treat a patient unless he has spent so many years in a university and has passed his examination. Why should you, because a man calls himself an herbalist or something of that kind, give him a short cut over our sons who have spent five years to acquire their knowledge in a university ? 37. Do you think that a person who dispenses medicine like an herbalist should pass some examination in physiology or anatomy?—As a dispenser he should pass the same examination as a chemist. The point is that the h'jrbalist is not confined always to compounds of a vegetable nature. 38. As to metaphysicians, do you think they ought to be licensed? —If they are allowed to practise they ought to be licensed, most certainly. 39. What is your opinion of their treatment, as reputable persons, in respect of nervous complaints particularly?—My attitude towards that is this: I hold that no man, unless he has spent a considerable time —say, five, six, or more years—in studying all phases of disease, can possibly diagnose in the first instance. Nervous ailments, we all know, are the most intricate and difficult phases of medical work. The metaphysicians I have seen practising were medical men. They do not call themselves metaphysicians, but they believe in hypnotism, auto-suggestion, and subconscious suggestion. lam not much enamoured of it myself. I think it is a path a man requires to walk very warily in. I have seen cases where men have prosecuted this work, and have found it very difficult to reason logically concerning it.

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40. As to the control rnetapEysicians get over their patients: what is the result so far as the free will of the patient is concerned? —You are referring to hypnotism? 41. Yes? —There are various opinions with regard to that. There is no doubt that a man should not be allowed to practise hypnotism unless under the most stringent conditions. My view with regard to hypnotism might differ from that of many medical men. I believe that the person puts himself to sleep, and that in these half-conscious conditions suggestions are simply made by the other man speaking very loudly. You will notice that in all these conditions the operator has to speak in a very loud voice as if speaking to a very deaf child, " Your pain is now gone," and he keeps on saying that many times. 42. Does the metaphysician get control always after he once hypnotises a person?—l do not think so. No doubt a person who is easily influenced by another person is one who should be careful as to whose hands he places his subconscious being into. 43. Then, if this form of treatment is to do you suggest any provision being made in the way of regulation ?—The only regulation I can think of would be to require the man to follow out the usual medical course at the university, and then after that he can choose any line of treatment his reason and experience show him to be best. 44. As to homoeopaths—there are some men practising—what do you say about those?—l do not know any homoeopathic men who stick to it altogether. There is no clean line of division between the homoeopath and the allopath nowadays. The allopath uses small doses, and most decidedly the man who holds himself up as a homoeopath uses allopathic drugs. 45. Do you say that the men who are carrying on the business of homoeopaths should require to pass some examination ?—I take it that you mean medical men 1 46. No? —I would not allow them to practise at all. You have said by your law that before a man can treat a bunion or amputate a finger he must have five years' medical instruction and pass certain examinations. If you are going to set apart various sections of the body and give one to the hypnotist who is not qualified, and some other' portion to the homoeopath, I think it would be a great mistake. The essence of all treatment, the forerunner of all treatment, is diagnosis, and a man does not immediately become able to diagnose because he proclaims himself as an herbalist or homoeopath. Ido not see any reason why all who set out to treat diseases should not go along the same path. 47. With regard to persons carrying on massage treatment, do you think they should be allowed to advertise? —No. 48. What do you suggest with regard to those people?—l say they should be on the register and pass an examination, should not be allowed to advertise, and should only act on the prescription of men able to diagnose the condition of the person —that is, the duly qualified medical man. I think you will find most of the best masseurs in the colony quite agree with that. I have talked it over with many. 49. Is there any other additional statement you would like to make? —No, I do not think so. 50. Mr. J. Allen.] I understand you to say that the passing of the Postal Act has done a good deal to stop the trouble?— Yes, it has. 51. Has it stopped the circulation of the books you spoke of in the schools?—l do not know that, but I think it has, because only the other day a batch of letters were sent back by the Post Office people. 52. If it has not been stopped completely what do you suggest as a means to stop the circulation of books and literature of the kind? —I think if it were made illegal for the newspapers, or any one, to advertise such things it would be a very good move in the direction of stopping them. Occasionally this is what is done: These people will send over a hamper of pamphlets consigned to some one in Wellington, who sends them out. It is only after a man gets a pamphlet sent to him that he is aware of it. I have asked the Postmaster to prevent the despatch of these pamphlets throughout the colony. By stopping the advertising, and a liberal application of the provisions of the Postal Act, I think a great deal can be done. 53. Would that stop the sending of the book or the letter? —No, it would not do that, but it will not profit these people to continue sending books if no reply comes back to them. They are only sending the book in order to draw the youngsters, and if it is not sent by the Postal people their object will fail. 54. Is that what the Postal people are doing now?— Yes. 55. No letter sent by those on the black list goes forward? —No. 56. That will reduce the circulation? —Yes, but it would not stop it wholly. 57. You suggest still further action in the way of stopping the advertising. Do you think the amendment of the Postal Act is far-reaching enough? —I think so. 58. Can you get over the changing of name by these people?— The Postmaster-General has to be continually gazetting fresh names. I have to get some one to write to these people continually. The Postal Act goes slightly further. I think the Department can prohibit the carrying of advertisements in a newspaper. As a matter of fact, one of the Sydney papers came in with a large blank space in it. 59. What do you suggest—that if a certain advertiser is on the black list the Postal people should not carry the paper? —Yes. 60. That is pretty far-reaching: is that in force? —The Sydney people think it is, because in some cases they have taken the advertisements out. 61. Would you allow these people to finish their contracts? —Yes, it would be unfair otherwise. 62. You suggested that this Bill goes further than is politic: In what direction? —When I made that remark I was thinking of its progress through the House. 63. We have to consider that. I want to know where you think it goes further than is politic? —Rather than lose it all I would pare bits off it.

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64. Which are the bits that oould be pared off, or would do the least harm? What do you consider the most important principle in the Bill? —I think the prohibition of the sale of medicaments by other than registered persons is the most important one. 65. You consider the most important part of the Bill is that providing that certificated people only shall be allowed to sell?— Yes, looking more especially to the effect on abortion medicines. If we could fine a man £50 for selling an article, and not have to prove he was selling a certain specific, it would be effective. 66. He not having a certificate? That is clause s?—Yes. 67. Do you consider that more important than clause 7?— No; but this goes further than the Postal Act. * The Postal Act only prohibits the advertising of a treatment for sexual ailments. This goes much further. 68. This differs from the Postal Act?— Yes. Under the Postal Act unless a man advertises a treatment for sexual debility you cannot get at him. Under this Bill any person offering to treat any disease would be liable, unless he first gets a certificate. 69. Is this the part you consider perhaps not politic?— Yes. I should like to see it go through, but I know there will be" mighty opposition to it, and pressure brought to bear by outsiders with regard to it. 70. There are only two main principles in the Bill, the certificate and the advertising?— Yes, that is all. With regard to section 2, I would not have any herbalist on the Board, because there would be no common ground upon which he and the medical men could meet to discuss matters. Every medical man would oppose that. If, on the other hand, you put a wholesale seller of medicines on it you would safeguard all interests. You have to remember that the herbalist sells Cherry Pectoral and all similar things. 71. Are the newspapers doing all that one might expect of them in the way of stopping these advertisements? —Yes, the principal ones, but the country papers I have not come to any understanding with, and I think that unless legislation is brought in they will not stop these advertisements, because they depend upon them for revenue. 72. Do you suggest legislation? —Yes; the owners of the leading papers have already agreed. 73. Do you think it would be a serious matter for the country papers? —Yes, I think it is a 74. How do you propose to get over it if it is a serious thing to country papers?— The country newspapers contain a large number of these advertisements, but I have made inquiries and find that many are " dummies " —that is, they continue to publish the advertisement long after the man has ceased to pay for it. The newspaper people get a block advertisement and let it remain in the paper. I remember a whole column that went in for nearly two years and was not paid for. Many of the patent-medicine people send a block out, and it is shifted every three months. The proprietor of the paper may be notified to take it out, but he continues to print it. 75. Have you anything to say by way of suggestion? —No. I certainly think the country papers should not be "allowed to publish these advertisements, because it is in the country that nine-tenths of these people find their patients; and it is in the country, where the boy leading a secluded life is not generally so smart as the town boy, that the money comes from. 76. Although you think it would be a considerable strain on the country newspapers you think it should be done ?—Yes. 77. Even if it should shut the paper up altogether? —I do not think it would do that. 78 What about the imported newspaper: is it clean in that respect?— No. 79 What do you suggest can be done?— That is a big order, because if you take any of the monthly magazines you will find the first half-dozen or more pages consisting of advertisements about such things as the Magic Footpad, or some method of extension to make a short man tall, &c These are mostly frauds, but Ido not think much harm is done by them to our people. A man thinks twice before he writes to America for such things. The danger of these people coming into contact with a New-Zealander is not great. The nearest place for these things is Sydney; although there is one firm— Dorey Lester, of London —that sends out beautiful catalogues of watches, and yet when the money is sent Home no watch is ever sent. 80. Can you give us other cases which affect the health of the community?—l do not know 81. Take the Sydney Bulletin ?—Yes, that contains a large number of advertisements which, if they appeared in New "Zealand papers, would be stopped. 82 They would have to print a special set of advertisements for us?—lhey printed a special set for Queensland, I believe, because the Government would not allow the other advertisements to come in. , ~ , . 83 Do you suggest that all the other papers that come in should be compelled to contain special advertisements?— Yes, Ido not see any reason why they should not. 84. If we clean our own papers, would not the others be flooded with such advertisements?— No doubt. „ T , 85 What use would it be to clean our own papers and not the outside ones i — l suggest that we should make them all clean, but less than that would do good. It is the country papers' advertisements and the papers which circulate in the country districts which do the harm 86. But suppose we clean the country paper and let the Bulletin come in?—lt should not be allowed to come in as it is if we clean our own. 87 Is it any use cleaning the country papers and not those from outside? —I thmk it would be of some value. I should have no hesitation in saying that the Bulletin should not come in with the advertisements it has. What I had in my mind were the Home magazines, such as the Strand and Pearson's, and that type of magazine. - ■ . . - 88 Do you mean to say that the Strand and magazines of that kind nave such advertisements 7 y es . appeals to thin-busted women and silly old men. 1 have read those magazines, and found that nearly all contain such advertisements.

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89. You see the point of my question? —Yes, it is a big order. 90. It seems to me that unless something more than cleaning our own newspapers is done we might be doing them monetary harm without doing ourselves any good? —Yes, that is so; but I do not think the log is too heavy to lift. 91. Is there any reason why the Strand magazine should not come in without those advertisements?—No; that is the cure. 92. Is it possible for the Health Department to circulate information to check the attempts of these people to impose on the public ? —I have been doing something myself in that direction in the way of lecturing. I myself have had to go into the open and preach. Ido not know that my Minister would give me a permit to run up against libel charges—because some of them have threatened. For instance, the Christchurch Press was threatened with a writ of libel by people who sell pills. That is the possible difficulty. 93. It means that, before the Health Department could take action in that direction, Ministerial authority would have to be given ?—Yes, in an important matter like that. I have never suggested it, although I have never been refused. One danger of publishing anything of this nature is that you are drawing the attention of people to it, and if it got into the hands of youngsters it might produce harm. 94. That is another point of view. What have you to say on that? —I would notify the head of every school, for instance, and have all his prefects informed that all papers of that kind found in the school should be delivered up, and occasionally a common-sense talk should be given to the boys. But it is a very difficult task, I tried it once in a big school, and I felt that I was not a success and left it to some one else. 95. Is that a matter which the Health Department could work out in the course of time—as it would be better because it has more experience?— Yes, we'are always taking every opportunity of work like that. It is somewhat difficult, because you may by the warning suggest something that a youngster never thought of, but still in other countries they are doing it. 96. In what shape are they doing it?— They are issuing carefully worded pamphlets to the boys. 97. Through the Health Department?— Through the headmasters. Some of the States are doing it, and the universities are doing it. 98. That is spasmodically. Do you suggest that the Health Department should be prepared to do something of the kind?—l am prepared to take the responsibility, but it would have to be carefully thought out. We should not be able to prepare a set of papers or pamphlets within six months' time. I think it could be got at in this way: If we got the District Health Officer in each of the provinces to address the school-teachers it might be made one of the subjects of the lectures, and so be filtered through to the scholars. I think, however, the best results can only be obtained through the parents. 99. But the parents at times are not fit to tell their children?—No; but I think that is the exception. It is not amongst the poorer classes only that we find these things going on. 100. I did not want to ask any questions about homoepaths, except that I might mention that one has applied to be allowed to come up and give evidence here —Mr. . He is a man who has gone through some college course? —If he has satisfied our Registrar that the course of education was a proper one, then he must go on the Medical Register. Once a man is on the register he must be allowed to practise. It must be remembered that once the proposed Board gives a permit to any medicine it will be used as a very powerful advertisement by the owner of the medicine. 101. Now, about clause 4—"Chemist or herbalist may apply for a certificate"? —Of course, if a Board authorises it, it would be all right; but lam not satisfied with that clause at all. 102. Will you state your objection ?—For the very reason that, so soon as an herbalist, who probably has had no scientific training, puts up a mixture and submits it to the Board, and the Board decides that it is not harmful, he is immediately elevated from the position of a non-legal entity into a legalised individual. You are practically giving him a considerable lift towards registration as an herbalist, which Ido not agree with. That is the only point. 103. Take the case of a registered chemist under clause i. He may get some medical man's prescription here or from outside New Zealand. May he not apply to have that preparation agreed to by the Board, and so be walking into the shoes of a medical practitioner ?—I do not think any medical man would object to that. They are doing it now. Most of the good medicines in the market are really made from the formula) or prescriptions of medical men which the seller has boosted up by large advertising. We do not object to that. The main objection, it seems to me, is that if "you allow the word "herbalist " to stay in you are giving him a status which he has not at present, and which I do not think he should have unless he passes the examination for a doctor or a chemist. There is no legal definition of " herbalist "at the present time, and there would be if they were included in the measure. 104. You were asked a question by the Chairman about foods. Ido not know whether it comes into this matter. Take the registered home for children or babies that are illegitimate?— They are not under the Health Department. One section of them is under the Education Department, 1 believe, and the other is under the Police. Another section is under the Charitable Aid people. 105. Is that a satisfactory thing?—l do not think Tarn competent to give an opinion. 106. You are unable to give us any evidence about what the homes are like or what the inspection is?— No. 107. Do you know of your own knowledge as a medical man what they are like? —Yes, 1 know of one —an excellent one. 108. Is it a registered home ?—Yes. 109. Do you know of any bad ones?— Yes. Ido not know of my own knowledge now. It is not in my Department. But I d"o know that some of them were not looked after as they might be. 110. The children were not? —Just so.

3—l. 14.

L—l 4.

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111. Were they starved? —They were not properly cared for. 112. Was the inspection by the police satisfactory? —The cases I have come across were mostly at inquests. 113. Ought the child to have died if properly treated? —No, it was practically starved. 114. Should that have happened under proper treatment? —It should not. My idea is that we should have a parish doctor, the same as in the Old Country, and also, if possible, a woman to assist. 115. Perhaps you do not care to say whether they should come under the care of the Health Department?—l think not. 116. Can you make any statement about those places? —I would rather not, because it would be a policy matter. 117. The Chairman.] You said something about what took place at Home? —The conditions which they attempt to follow out here are excellent —that is, the sending of children up-country, and if more of that could be done, instead of keeping them about town, it would be better. The best are those I have seen in the country. 118. You said something about a parish doctor and women?— Yes. At the present time there are a number of poor people whose only chance of treatment is as out-patients. You cannot with safety take an ailing child and keep it sitting outside a hospital for any length of time. In Christchurch the Benevolent Society's doctor attends to these cases. In Auckland they also have one, and I think the)' should have one in each of the large centres. 119. Mr. J. Allen.] Do you know anything about what Dr. Truby King is doing in Dunedin? —Yes, I think he has done excellent work. I was with him for a little time recently. I have been preaching the establishment of a clearing-house for milk during the last four years. I think every town of over 4,000 should have a place where the milk could be gathered and sold in the borough, just the same as in the case of abattoirs. The advantage of that would be that the milk could be taken right away and pasteurised, and sent out in bottles as seen fit. Dr. Truby King has been doing his humanising work at his own cost. Pending the adoption of the scheme I proposed, I have suggested the formation of a company in Wellington to carry on the humanising of milk, as is done at the Taieri Peninsula. 120. Do you know what Dr. Truby King and his society have been doing with regard to the registered home and care of children ?—He has been sending out his nurses. He has two of them, and a nurse follows the milk into the homes and sees that the children are well looked after. He has also a scheme on foot for taking cases out to Wairakei. 121. Are you aware of what has been disclosed with regard to the condition o fsome of these homes?— No. 122. Mr. Hornsby.] With regard to herbalists, you are aware that when the chemists came under the law a number of them who had been in practice for a number of years were admitted without examination? —Yes. 123. But after that they had to pass an examination and become members of the Pharmaceutical Society. Could not the same thing be done with regard to the herbalists?— The only thing is that there must be some finality with regard to that sort of thing. For instance, the chemists and dentists were entitled to register within two years. You have the Pharmacy Act and the Dentistry Act, and if you are going to open the door now to a man who has passed no examination at all, it seems to me that you are doing what is unfair to the doctor and the chemist. 124. Supposing we take the opportunity of sajnng that every man who has been in practice fou* - years shall be admitted, and that afterwards only those shall be admitted who have been examined ?—I would submit that it would be unwise to set up a less standard than what you ask of the medical man or chemist, because the herbalist is treating sick people. It has been held that a five-years course is quite little enough in which a man may learn anatomy, physiology, and the other things. 125. The pharmaceutical man does not do that?—No, but he is not entitled to diagnose. I think the proper position would be for all medical men to cease dispensing, and then you would not have the chemists transgressing. 126. Sometimes in order to do right you have to do a little wrong, we are told. Therefore, supposing we could, seeing that the public do support these men, and believe in them to such an extent that when my Bill came down last year there was a storm on behalf of these men, do you not think it would be politic to make a concession so that we might have a measure like this on the statute-book?—lf I were a politician I would certainly try to square the circle, as you are trying to do it now. I can quite see that this Bill will not go through the eye of the needle, so to speak; but, speaking as a medical man, I see only the error. 127. Would yo\i not rather see the Bill on the statute-book even with that error?— Personally, if I got the whole on condition that I swallowed this, I would rather swallow it, but I would do it with a wry face. 128. Having gone that far, may I ask you this: If I were to tell you that it would not injure p country newspaper to the extent of a pound a week to be deprived of the whole of the advertisements, you would not think I was trying to minimise the effect it would have if the advertisements were taken out of the newspapers?—l know they get them at very low rates. It is only about 9d. an inch. 129. I am speaking as one who knows, and I am putting it to you, that if I assure you that that is the case you are not prepared to contradict it?— No. 130. Clause 7, you can easily understand, I attach as much importance to as to any part of the Bill, because we have in Dr. Fitchett's magazine, Life, a whole host of these quack advertisements? —I have seen some of them; but as a matter of fact it seems that Christianity and quackery go hand in hand. There used to be no offender like the Christian World. You find a number of advertisements stating that the Rev. So-and-so found great relief from so-and-so.

J. M. MASON.]

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131. If we allow the Royal, the Grand, the Strand, and all these Other magazines, such as Pearnun's, to come into this country with these advertisements in them, we might just as well allow them in our own newspapers ?—I do not go quite so far as that. 132. When travelling in a railway-train, and going into settlers' homes in the. country districts, do you not find every one of these magazines represented, and do they not therefore get into the hands of children and young men? —Yes. 133. Therefore, is it not a fact that it' you allow, as Mr. Allen put it, these things to remain dirty, even after you have swept your own clean, the same harm, or at any rate a large percentage of the evil, would go on?— There is no doubt about it. It would be interesting, I think, for the Committee to take up last week's Strand Magazine and see how the woman who is too fat can, by taking certain stuff, be pulled down. You get the woman who has no bust, who can have it inflated; the woman who has too much hair on her skin, and the man who has no hair. Then you get the fellow who is too short, who can become taller than his rival. There are not many advertisements that appeal to the sexual side except in the case of electric belts. 134. You know that Rheumo is largely advertised in New Zealand? —Yes. 135. Can you give us some information about it? —No. 136. Some time ago, I believe, a man's life was considerably endangered by taking some of this vile stuff? —I cannot give you any information about it. 137. Now, about the sale of preventives. This Bill deals with that?—Of course, there is no legislation to prevent the sale of preventives, but I % do think it should be easy to stop a man like Lester Lacetter, who sends out to your wife notice that he sells all the latest things to use in order to stop certain things. It comes out by post, and I tried to get the name on our black list, but the Postal people said they could not do it. 138. Taking it as a whole, or with some slight modification that it might be politic to make in this Bill, do you think it would meet a great want?— Yes, and do a great deal of good. 139. The Chairman.] I understand it was stated in the Christchurch Clergymen's Association that a young girl attending a public school was found with a preventive in her pocket, and it was reported there that some of the registered chemists were deliberately and freely selling them to anybody who might come along?— There is nothing to prevent it at the present time. I bought the other day, for the purpose of demonstration, about twelve varieties. They come under all sorts of names and in all sorts of shapes. Ido not see how you are by legislation going to stop their sale altogether. 140. You can provide a check? —I have not thought that out, because I have realised the difficulty. 141. On account of their social character?—l think they should not be sold to any one under a certain age. 142. Mr. J. Allen.] No medical man uses preventives?— The question has several aspects, and you would not be able to stop their sale altogether. In every country you go to they have a different name. In France they call them " English letters." 143. The Chairman.] This Bill only restricts the sale to registered people?— Yes. 144. Would you advocate the provision brought in by the late Premier about preventives?— I only saw the Bill after it was drawn. 145. It provided that no preventive could be sold except on the authority of a medical man, and it was made a penal offence otherwise? —I think that legislation would be too far ahead. It would almost certainly induce smuggling, and then up would go the value of these things if they became contraband. It would be a good thing to make it a penal offence to sell them to people under a certain age; but all people must in time come to the age of discretion. 146. Would 3'ou suggest we should prevent their sale to those under a certain age? —Yes. 147. If you have a statement showing the formulae of certain patent medicines, I should like you to put it in I —Yes; I have some here. [Extract from the British Medical Journal. The Composition of Certain Secret Remedies, headache-powders. Following the analyses of medicines advertised for the cure of epilepsy previously published, we now give the results of the examination of the principal headache-powders supplied to the public, in most cases as proprietary articles. The sale of some of these is undoubtedly enormous. Fatal results have sometimes followed self-treatment with antifebrin (acetanilid) which figures largely in most of them. The powders analysed were in all cases obtained from dealers in the ordinary way, in unopened packages; the composition of each is given in such a way as to show the dose of each article in one powder of average weight. Since the separation of the ingredients depends largely on their different solubilities in various liquids, it is not possible to obtain quantitative results having quite the same degree of accuracy as in some other kinds of analytical work; but the results of analysis have been checked by preparing mixtures of the composition stated and submitting them to the same analytical process, and the possible error in the proportions given does not exceed a very small fraction. The estimated costs given refer only to the ingredients of the powders, and take no account of the cost of wrapping and package, &c. The prices of the drugs are taken from an ordinary wholesale druggist's list. Daisy Powders. Put up by "Daisy" (Limited), Mammoth Works, Holbeck, Leeds. Ten powders for 7|d. ; average weight of one powder, 6 - 0 gr.; individual powders in a packet, s'7gr. to 6'4gr.

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{j. M. MASON.

The medicament consists of acetanilid alone. Being an unmixed drug it is not liable to stamp duty, and the package is accordingly unstamped. The dose is stated to be one powder, repeated in two hours if necessary ; half a powder for children of twelve years; not adapted for children under twelve years. Two " certificates " are printed on each wrapper from individuals who are notorious for giving testimonials in the guise of certificates of analysis. The only fact certified is that the powders are " free from any injurious substance," in which medical opinion will scarcely support the writers. Estimated cost of drug (60 gr.), £d. Curie Wafers. Put up by the Curie Company, London, E.C. Recommended as a " safe and certain cure for headache, toothache, and neuralgia " ; stated to be prepared " from the prescription of an eminent West End physician." The " wafers " consist of ordinary cachets, with the name of the article embossed on one face, and containing the medicament in the form of powder. The package contains twelve wafers for Is. ljd. Average weight of contents of one wafer, 8"2 gr.; contents of individual wafer in a package, 7 - 3 gr. to 93 gr. Analysis shows the composition of the powder to be — Acetanilid ... ... ■ ... ... ■■■ •■■ 3"28 Phenacetin ... ... ... ••■ ... ... 3"28 Caffein-citrate ... ... ... ... ... ••» 1*64 Directions for taking the wafers are given, but it is not stated whether the dose is one or more. Estimated cost of drugs (98'4gr.), T 9 s d. Steam's Headache-cure. Put up by F. Steams and Co., Detroit, U.S.A. Agents for Great Britain, Thomas Christy and Co., 10 Old Swan Lane, London, E.C. Keoommended as "a speedy, certain, and safe cure for headaches of all origins, whether sick, bilious, nervous, or hysterical." These, like the foregoing, are described as wafers, and consist of cachets containing powder. The package contains twelve wafers for Is. Average weight of contents of one wafer, 9 - 8 gr.; contents of individual wafer in a package, 93 gr. to 10"2 gr. Analysis shows the composition of the powder to be- —• Gr. Acetanilid ... ... ... ... ... ... 3"92 Caffein ... ... ... ... ... ... o'9B Sugar of milk ... ... ... ... ... ... 490 The dose is one wafer. "If relief is not obtained, repeat in an hour, but more than two wafers should not be taken." Estimated cost of drug (118 gr.), a little under |d. Bell's Fairy Cure. Put up by the F&iry Medicine Company, Norwich. Stated to instantly give relief in all cases of neuralgia, headache, &c. A handbill enclosed in the package makes further claims, from which the following extracts are taken: "Guaranteed to be an instant and absolute cure" for "neuralgia, headache, brain-fag, nerve-pains." " Nothing else is like it. Nothing else is so good. Don't compare it with ordinary ' cures 'or ' powders. . Fairy Cure stands absolutely alone." Ten powders for 7d. Average weight of one powder, 27 gr. ; individual powders in a package, 2 gr. to 3"7 gr. Analysis shows the composition of the powder to be— Gr. Acetanilid ... ... ... ... ... ... I*l6 Phenacetin ... ... ... ... ... ... I'l6 Caffeine ... ... ... ... ... ... 0"38 The directions are to take one powder, " repeat in an hour if necessary, then every two or three hours until a cure is effected." (Yet it is guaranteed to be an instant cure!) Not to be given to children below twelve years of age. In this case also an " analyst's report" is given on the wrapper: this states that the powder "is composed of several organo-therapeutic agents well known in medicine." Probably the "analyst" did not mean quite what he said in the following: "In my opinion the preparation is well calculated to fulfil the purpose for which it is intended —namely, neurotic affections." Estimated cost of drugs (27 gr.), £d. Kaputine. Put up by the Kaputine Company (Limited), Lidget Street, Huddersfield. Stated to cure in ten minutes headache, neuralgia, arid all nerve-pains. In view of the similarity in composition of these articles, the claims of uniqueness are amusing. In this case the wrapper bears the words, " Nothing as good. Nothing similar " ; while

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on a circular enclosed in the package it is stated that " Kaputine is composed of several approved ingredients. That is, unlike the white headache-powders, which consist solely of one crude drug, and which have frequently been condemned as dangerous by the medical Press, Kaputine is most carefully prepared from several ingredients which have the absolute confidence of the medical profession." Eighteen powders for Is. ljd. Average weight of one powder, 6"6gr.; individual powders in a package, s'7gr. to 7 - 5 gr. Analysis shows the composition of the powder to be — Gr. Acetanilid ... ... ... ••• ■•• •■• 630 Ferric oxide ... ... ... ■•■ ••• ••• o'os Sugar ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 0-21 That is, the acetanilid is tinted pink with what is practically the saccharated carbonate of iron of the B.P. The dose is given as one powder: "If not completely cured in two hours, the dose may be repeated. Half a powder for children under twelve." Estimated cost of the drugs (119 gr.), just over Jd. Hoffman's Harmless Headache-powders. Prepared by the Hoffman Drug Company, New York. The package also bears the name of John Timpson and Co. (Limited), London —presumably the English agent. Described as" a simple and effective cure for all headaches." Ten powders for Is. l£d.; average weight of one powder, 105 gr.; nine out of ten weighed from 9 - 3 gr. to 105 gr., the tenth weighing 153 gr. Analysis shows the composition of the powder to be— Acetanilid ... ... ... .... ••■ ••• o'O 2 Cocoa ... ... ... ... ••• •• ••• ±-02 Sodium-bicarbonate ... ... •■• ••■ ■■■ I'd The dose is given as one powder, to be repeated in half an hour if not relieved. Estimated cost of drug (105 gr.), Jd. In addition to the above proprietary articles large numbers of headache-powders are supplied singly by retailers, and are commonly bought for this purpose ready packed from a wholesale house. It was therefore thought to be of interest to examine a sample of such powders. The one taken for the purpose is known as the "Good as Gold" headache-powder. This is put up by Barclay and Sons (Limited), 95 Farringdon Street. Three dozen are attached to a card for exhibition, and the powders retail at Id. each. The average weight was found to be 2"Bgr., six individual powders ranging from 2-7 gr. to 2'9gr. The powders consisted of acetanilid only, and there is reason to believe that practically all the others sold in this way are of the same composition. Estimated cost of drug for three dozen powders, Jd.

g IR) Colonial Laboratory, Wellington, 9th May, 1906. On the 24th ultimo I received from Constable Greene a bottle of " Peruna." I have analysed this sample, and find that it contains 18 - 6 per cent, of absolute alcohol by weight, equivalent to 40 per cent, of proof-spirit. It also contains a little essential oil, probably oil of cubebs, and only 0 - 22 per cent, of solids, apparently mainly caramel (burnt sugar). With regard to its intoxicating properties, it is three times as strong as beer, fifty per cent, stronger than the strongest unfortified wine, and about half the strength of brandy or whisky. It is therefore undoubtedly of an intoxicating nature. Further, as it contains nothing unpalatable it could readily be used as a beverage. I have, &c, J. S. Maclaurin, D.Sc, F.C.S., The Inspector of Police, Wellington. Government Analyst.

Department op Public Health, New South Wales. certificate op analysis. Analysis Register No. I^slfi. The sample of " Tuberculozyne," sealed in an original package, marked or labelled "No. 2 Tuberculozyne Yonkerman," received on 29/9/6, from Constables Lonsdale and Blair, has been examined, with the following results : — Percentage Composition. Water ... ... ■•■ _■•• •■■ ■■■ 84 3 5 Solid matter, &c, comprising chloride of iron,* sugar, balsam, glycerine, oil of almonds, vegetable colouring-matter ... 15"65 100-00 Specific gravity of the liquid, 1045. . William M. Hamlet, Sydney, 18th October, 1906. Government Analyst. * Containing 0 15 per cent, of chloride of iron.

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Department of Public Health, New South Wales, certificates of analysis. Analysis Register No. £539. The sample of " Tuberculozyne, "sealed in the original package, or labelled " No. 1 Tuberculozyne Yonkerman," received on 20/9/6, from Constables Lonsdale and Blair, has been examined, with the following results: — Percentage Composition. Water ... ... ... ... ... ... 8530 Solid matter, &c, comprising sugar, potassium-bromide,* cinnamon, cochineal, glycerine, balsam... ... ... 1470 100-00 Specific gravity of the liquid, 1047 William M. Hamlet, Sydney, 18th October, 1906. Government Analyst. * Containing 067 per cent, of potassium-bromide. Department of Public Health, New South Wales, Chemical Laboratory, Sydney, 21st December, 1906. On the 21st November Detective Caldwell handed to Dr. Cooksey, in the presence of Dr. Helms, a sealed package containing two bottles of liquid labelled " Tuberculozyne Yonkerman," "No. 1 " and "No. 2." "The new remedy for consumption, an antitoxin acting agent of the greatest therapeutic value, prepared and sold only by the Derk P. Yonkerman Co., Ltd., London, England; Kalamazoo, Mich., U.S.A.; and 64 Pitt Street, Sydney, New South Wales." On the 10th instant these two bottles were examined by the undersigned, and the seals having been found intact and unbroken, they were opened by one of us in the presence of the others, and a chemical analysis made of the contents of each bottle, on which we report as follows: — Tuberculozyne No. 1. Per Cent. Water ... ... ... ... ... ••• 86"10 *Organio matter, consisting of glycerine, sugar, traces of albuminoids, colouring and flavouring matters ... ~. ITO2 ■(■lnorganic matter or ash ... . . ... •■■ 2'BB 100-00 Specific gravity, T043. * Containing 004 per cent, of nitrogen, equal to 0-27 per cent, of albuminoids. t Containing 2-88 per cent, of potassium-bromide. Tubtrculozyne No. 2. Per Cent. Water ... ... ••■ ■■• B^ 6 o° *Organic matter, consisting of glycerine, sugar, traces of albuminoids, colouring and flavouring matters ... 15278 flnorganic matter or ash ... ... •■■ ■•• 0 - 122 100-000 Specific gravity, 1' 045. * Containing 0-02 per cent, of nitrogen, equal to 0-13 per cent, of albuminoids. f Containingjtraces of iron. We find that the preparations labelled " Tuberculozyne" consist of a dilute solution of potassium-bromide in No. 1, and a dilute solution of iron in No. 2, these being, as far as chemical analysis shows, the active ingredients present. Other substancesglycerine, sugar, cochineal, cinnamon and almond essences —were also found, but copper-compounds were entirely absent. William M. Hamlet. Thomas Cooksey. A. Helms. Department of Public Health, New South Wales, Chemical Laboratory, Sydney, 22nd October, 1906. Report on Yonkerman , s Tuberculozyne. On the 20th September last Constables Lonsdale and Blair delivered into my hands a package properly tied over, sealed, and labelled. I found this package to contain two bottles carefully sealed and wrapped in paper, and covered with a printed label marked respectively "No. 1 Tuberculozyne Yonkerman " and " No. 2 Tuberculozyne Yonkerman." The bottle No. 1 contained a dilute solution of potassium-bromide coloured with cochineal, sweetened with sugar and glycerine, and flavoured with cinnamon-oil, and some balsam, probably balsam of tolu, in small quantity. The bottle marked No. 2 was a very dilute solution of perchloride of iron, coloured with the iron and some vegetable colouring-matter, sweetened with glycerine, and flavoured with essence of almonds.

J. M. MASON.]

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There were no alkaloids, no copper-oompounds, no active plant-principles, nor any kind of antitoxin in either preparation. There was nothing found in either of these liquids to warrant the statement on the label, " An antitoxin," &c. I am of opinion that Tuberculozyne is a cruel fraud, intended or calculated to extort money from persons suffering from phthisis, and of no more value than water from Sydney Harbour would be if bottled and labelled in a similar manner. Sixpence would, in my opinion, be a liberal estimate of the value of the mixtures. William M. Hamlet, The Chief Medical Officer. Government Analyst.

[Hansard, Mr. Hornsby, page 481, 1907.] Guy's Tonic : Phosphoric acid, cochineal, gentian, and chloroform-water. Owbridge's Lung Tonic: Balsam of tolu, oil of anise, and oil of cloves. Hair's Asthma Cure: lodide of potassium (1 oz.) and tar-water (16 fluid oz.). Kay's Tic Pills: Sulphate of iron, quinine, and soap. Phospherine: Quinine, phosphates, and hypophosphites. Steedman's Teething-powders: Calomel and starch. Zox Powders : Pure antifebririe. Preparations for Gout and Obesity. Blair's Gout Pills: Colchicum is the active constituent. Russell's Obesity Cure: Citric acid (20 grains.to Joz.), glycerine, and water. The pink tablet = saccharine. Hair-restorers. Allen's Hair-restorer: Acetate of lead, milk of sulphur, and glycerine; scented with oil of cinnamon. Tatcho: Purified oil of paraffin and essential oil of lemon. Harlene: Glycerine, alcohol, ammonia, and oil of cassia. Mexican Hair-renewer : Acetate of lead,, precipitated sulphur, glycerine, and water. Miscellaneous Preparations. Antidipso (Ward Chemical Company): Chlorate of potash and sugar. Cuticura Resolvent: Aloes (1 drm.), rhubarb (1 drm.), iodide of potassium (36 gr.), dissolved in alcohol. Petroleum Emulsion: Liquid petrolatum, glycerine, with hypophosphate of sodium and calcium. Hale's Catarrh Cure: Potassium-iodide (1 drm.), tincture of cardamoms (40z.), comp. tincture of gentian (12 fluid oz.). Mrs. Terry's Drink Cure : Sugar (98 per cent.) and salt (2). Glykaline: Glycerine, rectified spirit, and a trace of iodide of potassium. Clarke's Blood Mixture: lodide of potassium (48 gr.), chloric ether (4 drms.), solution potassa (30 mins.), water coloured with burnt sugar (7| oz.) —8 oz. bottle. Warner's Safe Cure: Nitrate of potash (10 grains to the ounce), with minute quantities of oil of wintergreen and liver-wort. Liquozone: A weak solution of sulphurous-acid gas (does not contain ozone). Pink Pills: Thin coating of pink sugar, under which is a layer of starch. Pill-mass is composed of carbonate of iron and sulphate of potash, with little powdered liquorice-root. Hearne's Bronchitis Cure: Contained spirits of chloroform, ipecacuana, syrup 7"28 per cent., and apparently vinegar of squilla. Warner's Safe Cure: Contained alcohol (1081 per cent.), gallic acid, phosphoric acid, sodium-salicylate, magnesium-sulphate, ammonium-chloride, syrup of hypophosphate of lime, and oil of wintergreen. It contains neither iodides nor alkaloids.

[Extract from the British Medical Journal of the 31st August, 1907, page 530.] The Composition of Certain Secret Remedies. blood-purifiers. It is, of course, easy to connect a great variety of diseases with the condition of the blood, though it must be admitted that, as a rule, the makers of any kind of quack medicine find no difficulty in showing that almost any disease that can be named takes its rise in the organs or system which their own particular nostrum is professed to benefit. The claims made for some of the following naturally do not fail in comprehensiveness; among other complaints, ringworm and itch appear to be regarded as disorders of the blood. Clarke's World-famed Blood Mixture. Prepared only by the Lincoln and Midland Counties Drug Company, Lincoln, England. Price, 2s. 9d. per bottle, containing 8J fluid ounces. The following passages are quoted from a pamphlet enclosed with the bottle; —.

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'' No matter what the symptoms may be, the real cause of a large proportion of all diseases is bad blood. Clarke's World-famed Blood Mixture is not recommended to cure every disease; on the contrary, there are many that it will not cure; but it is a guaranteed cure for all blood-diseases. ... It never fails to cure Scrofula, Scurvy, Scrofulous Sores, Glandular Swellings and Sores, Cancerous Ulcers, Bad Legs, Secondary Symptoms, Syphilis, Piles, Rheumatism, Gout, Dropsy, Black-heads or Pimples on the Face, Sore Eyes, Eruptions of the Skin and Blood, and Skin-diseases of every description." On the label it is stated, — " The mixture is pleasant to the taste, and warranted free from anything injurious to the most delicate constitution of either sex, which all Pills and most Medicines sold for the above diseases contain. "Directions: The mixture must be taken about half an hour after meals, in the following doses: — '■ For Adult Males. —One tablespconful four times a day. " ~ Adult Females. —One tablespoonful three times a day. " ~ Children over Twelve Tears of Age. —Two teaspoonfuls three times a day. "' ~ Under Twelve Years. —From half to one teaspoonful, according to age, mixed with a little water and sugar." Analysis showed the mixture to contain I's per cent, of potassium-iodide, I' 2 per cent, of sugar (partly inverted), 16 per cent, by volume of alcohol, and traces of chloroform and ammonia, a brown colour being given by a small quantity of what was evidently burnt sugar. The composition of 8 oz. is thus, — Potassium-iodide ... ... .'.. ... •■■ 52'5gr. Spirit of sal-volatile ... ... ... ... 10 minims. Spirit of chloroform ... ... ... ... 67 ~ Simple syrup ... ... ... ... ... 50 ~ Burnt sugar ... ... ... ... ■■■ q.s. Water to ... ... ... .'.'. ... 8 fluid oz. Estimated cost of ingredients, l^d. Old Dr. Jacob Townsend's American Sarsaparilla. Supplied by Dean, Steel, and Co., London, sole proprietors. Price, 2s. 6d. per bottle, holding a little under 9 fluid ounces. On the wrapper it is stated, — " This Sarsaparilla is the great purifier of the blood and general juices of the system. It effects the most salutary changes in disease; cures scrofula, salt-rheum, all scorbutic disorders, chronic sore eyes, rheumatism, piles, liver-complaints, erysipelas, all blotches and eruptions of the skin; in short, it removes every impurity of the blood, and all humours and morbid collections of the body." The directions given on the label are, — " Take half a wineglassful three or four times a day, an hour before or after meals. Persons very weak and debilitated may begin with a tablespoonful, and increase the dose as the patient recovers health and strength. It is better to take it without the addition of water." Analysis showed 100 fluid parts of the liquid to contain. 182 parts of solids, of which 5-5 parts were sugar (partly inverted), and 2"5 ash, the remainder being of the nature of a vegetable extract. The mineral constituents were only those common to the ash of most drugs, and no metallic salts were found in medicinal doses; nothing of alkaloidal nature was present. The mixture contained 8 - l per cent, by volume of alcohol. A vegetable preparation of this kind, containing no definite active principle that can be identified, is of course not capable of being referred with certainty to the various drugs from which it may have been prepared ; a study of its general properties, and a series of careful comparisons, pointed to the present mixture being of similar nature to the official liquor sarsae oompositus ooncentratus, but without liquorice, and with the addition of sugar: the drugs in the official preparation (besides liquorice) are sarsaparilla, sassafras, guaiaoum wood, and mezereon. A liquid prepared in this manner, with the alcohol reduced to the amount found in the mixture under examination and the aroma slightly increased by adding a little additional oil of sassafras, agreed fairly well both in general properties and the results of examination with the medicine under consideration. Munyon's Blood Cure. Supplied by Munyon's Homoepathic Home Remedy Co., Regent House, Regent Street, London, W. Price, Is. per bottle. The label bears the words " Manufactured in U.S. of America." On the outer package it is stated, — "It eradicates all Impurities from the Blood, and cures Scrofulitic Eruptions, Rash on the Scalp, Scald Head, Itching and Burning, and any form of Unhealthy, Blotchy, Pimply, or Scaly Skin ;" and similar claims are put forward on the label and in a circular enclosed with the bottle. The bottle contained about 200 pellets or pilules, of average weight of \ gr. These consisted of sugar; careful search was made for small quantities of medicament, but -no other ingredient could be detected. Quantitative determination of the sugar showed just 100 per cent. Estimated cost of the pilules,

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J. M. MASON.]

Harvey's Blood Pills, Sole Proprietors: Harvey's Blood Pill Company, Llanelly, S. Wales. Price, Is. ljd. a bottle, containing twenty pills. The label and the enclosed circular bear the picture of a man's head, with the words, "Harvey. Discoverer of the circulation of the blood"; with the evident implication that the Harvey who discovered the circulation of the blood also discovered or invented these blood-pills. The modest claims made in the circular include the following: — " Harvey's Blood Pills for Skin Diseases. An Unfailing Remedy For Scurvy Sores! Harvey's Blood Pills For Scrofulous Sores. A Certain Remedy For Ulcerated Legs! Harvey's Blood Pills For Sluggish Liver. The Surest Remedy For Ringworm! Harvey's Blood Pills for Erysipelas. The Quickest Remedy For Itch ! Harvey's Blood Pills for Boils. An Effective Remedy for Eruptions! Harvey's Blood Pills for Rheumatism. The Safest Remedy for Piles ! " Harvey's Blood Pills are purely Vegetable, and contain the best properties of Sarsaparilla, Dandelion, Burdock, and Quinine. They are Warranted Free From Mercury. " Harvey's Blood Pills fortify the feeble, restore the invalid to health, and do good in all cases. All sufferers should immediately have recourse to these celebrated Pills. " Harvey's Blood Pills are ' specially ' suitable for Females. They remove all impurities." Somewhat lengthy directions are given for diet, &c, as well as for taking the pills, in various cases; from which it appears that the usual dose is— " For a male adult, one Pill three times a day; a female adult, one Pill twice a day: children, one Pill at bed-time." The pills are coated with French chalk, coloured red externally; when deprived of their coating, the average weight was 276 gr. Analysis showed them to contain quinine equivalent to 173 per cent, of the crystalline sulphate, 217 per cent, of potassium-iodide, small proportions of powdered rhubarb and liquorice, and vegetable extract or extracts. A mass prepared from the following formula agreed closely with the pills irr general properties and in results on analysis in various ways: — Quinine-sulphate ... ... ••• ••• ••• ... 17 Potassium-iodide ... ... ••• •■• ••• ... 22 Powdered rhubarb ... ■•• •■• ■■• ... 16 Powdered liquorice ... ••• ■■• •■■ •■■ 8 Extract of sarsaparilla ... ... ■■• ■■• ... 12 Extract of burdock ... ... •■■ •■■ ... 12 Extract of taraxacum ... ■•■ ••■ •■■ ... 12 Divided into 36 pills. Estimated cost of ingredients for twenty pills, fd. Professor 0. Phelps Brown's Blood Purifier. Prepared by Professor 0. Phelps Brown, 60 Chandos Street, Covent Garden, London. Price 2s. 9d. a bottle, containing six fluid ounces. The following paragraph appears on the label: — "This medicine is a concentrated preparation of Rock Rose and Stillingia, combined with other plants, well known for their specified action on the blood, which makes a compound medicine, that has never been equalled, and will be hard to surpass in the scientific future. It is impossible to give a full account of its virtues and cleansing capacities on this label, and the Prof, must, therefore, be content with briefly stating that it is an infallible remedy for All Diseases of the Blood, be they Constitutional, Hereditary, or of Recent Contraction. Nearly every ailment known to the medical faculty is in a greater or lesser degree dependent for its appearance and its virulence upon a Disease of the Blood. Ulcers, Tumours, Scrofula Bunches, Fistula, Piles, Painful Eruptions, indeed all afflictions manifested upon the outer surface of the body are the consequences of diseased blood. Many terrible maladies, which take the shape of Internal Inflammation, Sores, &c, and appear in the form of Fevers, Aches, Swellings, Glandular Disturbances, Mental Derangement, and General Debility, also proceed from the same cause. It is an admitted fact that, with Pure Blood and Regular Bowels, no individual ever can be permanently, seriously, or dangerously ill, if ill at all. "J)ose. —For Adults, one tablespoonful three times a day before eating. For Children, the dose must be reduced to a teaspoonful." Analysis showed 100 fluid parts of the liquid to contain 197 parts of solids, of which 155 parts were sugar (partly inverted): a good deal of mucilage was present, but no alkaloid and no mineral substance except the small quantity of ash always present in vegetable extracts : alcohol was present to the extent of 23 per cent, by volume. Evidence was obtained of the probable presence of a preparation of stillingia, but this drug does not contain any active principle by which it can be certainly identified. Rock-rose (Cistus canadensis) has been used to some slight extent medicinally, but no particular virtues appear to have been assigned to it; it is, however, described as bitter and astringent. The 3 or 4 per cent, of extractive matter present in the mixture under consideration showed neither bitterness, astringency, or any other property by which it could be identified, or which would indicate any medicinal quality. 4.—1. 14.

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[j. M. MASON.

Hood's Compound Extract of Sarsaparilla. Supplied by C. I. Hood and Co. (Limited), 34 Snow Hill, London, E.C. Made in America by C. I. Hood Co., Lowell, Mass., U.S.A. Price, Is. ljd. per bottle, containing 2J fluid ounces. The following paragraph appears on the covering of the bottle: — "A trial bottle will convince the most sceptical of the real merit of Hood's Sarsaparilla, and will enable everybody to test its wonderful power in restoring and invigorating the whole system, in renovating and enriching the blood, in giving an appetite and a tone to the stomach, in eradicating and curing Scrofula, Scrofulous Humours, Scald Head, Syphilitic Affections, Cancerous Humours, Ringworms, Salt-rheum, Boils, Pimples and Humours on the Face, Catarrh, Headache, Dizziness, Faintness at the Stomach, Constipation, Pains in the Back, Female Weakness, General Debility, Costiveness, Biliousness, and all diseases arising from an impure state or low condition of the blood. Hood's Sarsaparilla is designed to act upon the blood, and through that upon all the organs and tissues of the body. It has a specific action also upon the secretions and excretions, and assists nature to expel from the system all humours, impure particles, and effete matter through the lungs, the liver, the kidneys, and the skin. It effectually aids weak, impaired, and. debilitated organs, invigorates the nervous system, tones and strengthens the digestive organs, m &nd imparts new life and energy to all the functions of the body. The peculiar point of this medicine is that it strengthens and builds up the system while it eradicates disuase." In a pamphlet enclosed with the bottle it is stated, — " It is carefully prepared from Sarsaparilla, Dandelion, Mandrake, Dock, Pipsissewa, Juniper Berries, and other valuable vegetable remedies, in such a peculiar manner as tc retain the full curative value of each ingredient used." The dose is given as — "Adult, I to 2 teaspoonfiilw; usual dose, 1 teaspoonful three times a day; children, less, # according to age." Analysis showed it to contain, in 100 parts by measure, potassium-iodide, 1"7 parts (7| gr. in 1 fluid oz.), and sugars (partly inverted) 9"1 parts; the total solids amounted to 128 parts, thus leaving 2'o parts of vegetable extract per 100 fluid parts. Liquor sarsae compositus concentratus of the B.P. contains about 21 parts of solids in 100 fluid parts, so that it may be concludad that the amounts of extracts of " Sarsaparilla, Dandelion, Mandrake, Dock, Pipsissewa, Juniper Berries, and other valuable vegetable remedies " in this mixture are not large. The liquid has a somewhat aromatic odour and taste, in which oil of juniper could not be detected, nor was it recognisable on distillation ; none of the other ingredients mentioned is capable of being identified in such a mixture. No alkaloid was present, and careful search for other likely ingredients gave only negative results. The mixture contained 196 per cent, by volume of alcohol. Hughes's Blood Pills. • Maker: Jacob Hughes, Penarth, Cardiff. Price, Is. ljd. per box, containing thirty pills. These are described on the label as " B'or all Blood, Skin, and Nerve Diseases." In a circular enclosed with the box there is a dissertation on the functions and composition of the blood, from which the following extracts are taken: — " The Blood being , therefore the Life of the living Body, it stands to reason that if it is poisoned, you poison the whole system, and eventually destroy the life of the man. When the blood is chilled, or distempered through breathing impure air, unhealthy food, &c, it at once gets disturbed, and breeds disease in some form or other. This is the cause of Blast,. Scurvy, Piles, Boils, King's Evil, Swollen Glands, Inflammation of the Eyes and Lids, Piiins in the Sides, Back, and Kidneys, Cough, Bronchitis, Pleurisy, Rheumatism, Wounds in the Legs and Different Parts of the Body, all Scorbutic Affections, Cancer, Pimples on the Face, Neck, &c, and all Skin Eruptions, Chilliness, Headache, Indigestion, Fullness after Meals, Dyspepsia, Vomiting, Loss of Appetite, Consumption, Toothache, Neuralgia, Fits, St. Vitus's Dance, all Liver Complaints, Costiveness, Yellow Jaundice, Depression of Spirits, Stitches in the Sides, Fevers, Epidemics, Plagues, Gout, Nerve Diseases, Lumbago, Eyrsipelas, all kinds of Inflammation, and most Chest Diseases. " The noted Pills, ' Hughes's Blood Pills,' act directly upon the Blood and Juices of all parts of the system, which they Strengthen and Purify. By so doing the Liver, Kidneys, Heart, Lungs, Stomach, Bowels, Brain, and Nerves are renewed and toned to such a degree that their functions are perfectly performed, securing to the man healthy days." Very lengthy directions are given for taking the pills for a variety of complaints, from which it appears that the usual dose is one or two pills at night, or one three times a day. The pills had a thin loose coating of French chalk; after removing this the average weight was 2 gr.. Analysis showed the presence of no inorganic salts, except the usual small quantities of phosphate, sulphate, &c, found in the ash of most drugs. The pill contained a trace of oil of cloves and consisted of powdered drugs to the extent of about half its weight; ginger and cinchona were identified in this portion; a trace of alkaloid was extracted, showing the properties of the alkaloids of cinchona. A portion of the

J. M. MASON.]

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tissue, which appeared to be derived chiefly from a seed, could not be recognised, and a lengthy series of comparisons failed to identify it with any known drug. The remainder of the pill was separated into two substances, which appeared to be aloes and jalap resin, but from such a mixture as this pill presents the identity of these substances cannot be established with complete certainty. The proportions of the ingredients, also, can only be ascertained approximately; the following formula was indicated: — Gr. Aloes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 0-7 Jalap resin ... ... ... ... ... ... 0 - 2 Powdered cinchona-bark ... ... ... ... ... 0"3 Powdered ginger ... ... ... ... ... ... o'2 Oil of cloves ... ... ... ... ... ... Trace In one pill.

,i [Extract from the British Medical Journal of the 17th August, 1907, page 393.] The Composition op Certain Secret Remedies. Burgess's Lion Ointment. In consequence of some inquiries as to the composition of Burgess's Lion Ointment made by a correspondent, it appeared to be of interest to submit this proprietary article to examination. It is supplied by E. Burgess, 59 Gray's Inn Road, London, W.C., in boxes at Is. l|d., 2s. 9d., 4s. 6d., 11s., and jars at £1 25.; the Is. ljd. box contains 1 oz., and the next size 3 oz. A circular wrapped round the box is headed " Amputation avoided —the knife superseded," and continues, — " E. Burgess's Lion Ointment and Pills have deservedly become the popular remedies for curing all diseases of the Skin, Old Wounds, Ulcers, Abscesses (including Tuberculosis), Tumours, Polypuses, Piles, Fistulas, Shingles, Venereal Sores, Whitlows, Broken Breasts, Bad Legs, Boils, Scurvy, Scrofula (King's Evil), Scorbutic Eruptions, Poisoned Wounds of all kinds, Stings, Venomous Bites, Scurf, Ringworm, Itch, Corns, Chilblains, Chapped Hands, Cracked Lips, Cuts, Burns, Scalds, Gatherings in the Ear, Toothache, Earache, Neuralgia, Rheumatism, Gout, Sciatica, Quinsey, Bronchitis, Asthma, Deafness, &c. ; also Ulcerous Affections of the Womb, for the treatment of which apply to the Proprietor, personally, or by letter, in all cases free. These invaluable medicines have not been introduced as remedies for any of the above complaints, or diseases, until they have in each case practically proved effectual. To those who are suffering from diseases apparently rendering amputation necessary, they are especially recommended, as they entirely do away with the necessity for the same by drawing all the cause of the disease from the affected part, cleansing the blood, and restoring the system to a sound, healthy condition. " They are vegetable preparations, and the Ointment can be applied with perfect confidence to the most tender skin. It is entirely free from all poisonous ingredients, a great recommendation for the nursery —for which it is invaluable. " Directions for use: In every case where practicable the Ointment should be applied as a plaister spread on a piece of soft linen large enough to cover not only the wound (if any) but all inflamed parts. This rule applies from the worst cases of ulcers to a simple cut. Bathe the part affected with warm water for a few minutes when changing the plaister, which should be done night and morning, or oftener if there is much discharge." More detailed directions are also given for its use in particular cases. In spite of the ointment being a " vegetable preparation," analysis showed the prin.cipal ingredient to be lead-oleate (lead plaster); this is blended with resin, wax, and fatty ingredients; vegetable extracts and active principles were found to be absent. It is not possible to separate the ingredients of an ointment like this sharply one from another; and, since the ingredients are not themselves simple bodies but mixtures liable to rather wide variations, they can only be approximately determined, and, as regards the lard and oil, even identification cannot be placed beyond deifbt, nor can small quantities of some other fats be certainly stated to be absent. These, however, are matters of minor importance. The composition arrived at has been checked by varying the analytical methods, as well as by comparison of various ointments prepared according to formulae suggested by analysis. As a result of the investigation, the following formula was arrived at, which gives an ointment similar to the " Lion " ointment: — Lead plaster ... ... ... ... ... 13 parts. Beeswax ... ... ... ... ... ... 20 ~ Resin ... ... ... ... ... ... 11 ~ Olive-oil ... ... ... ... 12 ~ Water ... ... ... ... ... ... 6 ~ Lard, to ... ... ... ... ... ... 100 ~ Estimated cost of the ingredients, about 10d. per pound of ointment.

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[Extract from the British Medical Journal of the 27th July, 1907, page 209.] The Composition of Certain Secret Remedies. obesity cures. Trilene Tablets. Supplied by the Trilene Manufacturing Company, 66 Finsbury Pavement, London. Price, 2s. 6d. per box. containing 66 tablets. A little booklet is enclosed with, the package, containing testimonials, directions, &c. ; also a small circular giving instructions as to diet, with the addition — "We desire to say that such precautions are not indispensable by any means, but we formulate the above for the guidance of those in whom any peculiarity of Constitution may render such care salutary, and to promote rapidity of cure." The directions are, — " Three of the tablets three times a day 10 minutes before meals, either dissolved on the tongue or taken as pills. (No change of diet being essential.)" It is also added, — " The present supply lasts one week, in which time the weight begins to lessen, but a marked change in appearance naturally occupies several weeks to effect." Two separate packages of the tablets were obtained for analysis at an interval of several weeks; in the first supply the tablets were of a dirty-white colour and contained no dye, but in the second they were bright yellow, and contained a yellow dye, which appeared to be one of the coal-tar colours, in addition to the ingredients previously found. The average weight of one tablet is o'9gr., and they were found to contain 87 per cent, of sugar, 24 per cent, of moisture, and o's per cent, of ash; about three-quarters of the remainder was starch, principally potato-starch, but with a little maize. The residual 2 or 3 per cent, was a gelatinous substance showing no marked reactions or characters, and exhibiting only traces of cell-tissue when examined microscopically. Analysis of the ash showed it to contain sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, chloride, sulphate, and phosphate; these are the constant constituents of the ash of extract of Fucus vesiculosus; an aqueous extract of the tablets contained a small quantity of mucilage similar to that yielded by the same drug. By taking some Fucus vesiculosus in the wet state, pounding it to a pulp, and boiling it, a material was obtained agreeing with the gelatinous substance from the tablets, and there appears no ground for doubting the identity of the two. Careful search was made for alkaloids and other substances in small quantity, but without any being found. The formula thus becomes— Fucus vesiculosus, in pulp ... ... 3 per cent, (dry weight). Starch ... ... ... ... 7 „ Sugar ... ... ... ... 87 ~ Water ... ... ... ... 3 „ Yellow dye ... ... ... ... q.s. Estimated cost of ingredients (sixty-six tablets), jgd. Hargreaves's Seducing Wafers. Supplied by F. Hargreaves, 324 Coldharbour Lane, Brixton, S.W. Price, Is. ljd. per box, containing twenty-one. A circular enclosed with the box gives a number of testimonials, with directions, &c, and the following are extracts from it: — " Purely vegetable. Contain nothing harmful. Can be taken at any time with perfect safety. Dose: Three wafers daily. One after Breakfast, Dinner, and Supper. If Supper is not taken, one after Tea instead. May be dissolved on the tongue or taken as pills. No change in diet -necessary. " The supply sent herewith lasts one week, in which time the Fat commences to get less. In most cases, however, to complete a cure takes about seven weeks, therefore clients should now send for the further six weeks' treatment." The " wafers " are really compressed tablets of the ordinary shape, coated with French chalk, and coloured pink externally with eosin. After removing the coating the average weight of the tablets is 2 - 4gr.; they consist of substances of "extract" nature, with about 10 per cent, of powdered liquorice. Analysis of the ash showed all the constituents of the ash of extract of Fucus vesiculosus, and other tests indicated this extract to form about one-half of the tablet; the other constituent (or constituents), also of "extract" nature, showed no reactions or properties by which it could be identified, and it is probably present merely as excipient. Allan's Anti-Fat. Supplied by the Botanic Medicine Company, Buffalo, New York, and London, England. Price, 6s. 6d. a bottle, containing 6£ fluid ounces. On the wrapper appear the words, — " Purely vegetable. Perfectly harmless. Always efficacious." Also, — " We call special attention to the efficacy of our Anti-Fat in the cure of that distressing complaint—indigestion or dyspesia. It acts solely upon the food in the stomach, regulating and putting the liver and discharging organs in good working-order." A circular is enclosed with the bottle entitled, " How to get Lean without Starvation," from which the following extracts are taken: —

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" A very extensive observation has convinced us, since our first circular treatise was issued, that in the majority of cases the Anti-Fat must be taken for from two to three, and, in rare cases, even four weeks before the patient will begin to notice much reduction of flesh, after which the loss goes on rapidly —generally from three to five pounds a week. In some cases the diminution in weight commences from the first two or three days' use of it. " The treatment of obesity has hitherto rested on no sure basis. " Through the study of physiological chemistry, a specific has at length been discovered, which, from the name of the discoverer, has been called Allan's Anti-Fat. "Directions: Take two teaspoonfuls of the Anti-Fat in a wineglassful of water or sweet milk before each meal." A small slip is also enclosed headed " Caution ! I" which states, — " The colour, as well as the flavour, of the Anti-Fat varies somewhat with age and exposure to light, but neither in the least impairs its virtues. The temperature of the weather at the time of the manufacture of this remedy has also much to do with its clearness, or transparency, but does not affect its properties." Analysis showed the presence of alcohol, glycerine, potassium-iodide, salicylic acid, and a vegetable extract which from its properties and the analysis of the ash is evidently a purified extract of Fucus vesiculosus. The proportion of the latter drug represented cannot, of course, be determined with certainty for the reasons referred to above; the amounts of the other ingredients were ascertained by analysis, and the formula is approximately as follows: — Potassium-iodide ... ... , ... ... o*3 gr. Salicylic acid ... ... ... ... ... TO,, Glycerine ... ... ... ... ... 40 minims. Fluid extract of Fucus vesiculosus ... ... 70 ~ Water ... ... ... • • • ... To 1 fluid ounce. Estimated cost of ingredients (6J fluid ounces), 3d.

[Extract from the British Medical Journal of the 6th July, 1907, page 24.] The Composition of Certain Secret Remedies, obesity cures. The next class of nostrums which we have taken for examination consists of those advertised for the reduction of corpulence. In general, the claims that are made for these articles are less extravagant than in many other cases, and a reason for this is not far to seek; it is important that the consumer of the medicine shall be encouraged to persist in its use for a considerable time, and any statements as to the rapid cure which would very soon be found to be at variance with the facts would probably only lead to discontinuance of the medicine, and therefore defeat the maker's object. Nevertheless, the emphatic and confident statements, backed by testimonials, which are so important a weapon to the quack-medicine maker, are by no means abandoned, as some of the quotations below will show. The prices named below for the various articles described refer to the smallest size of package; in most cases larger packages, containing sufficient for several weeks' or months' consumption, are supplied at proportionally lower rates, and purchasers are urged to obtain these larger packages. While certain of these preparations present no particular difficulty to the analyst, the majority not only contain vegetable preparations devoid of well-marked characters, but since the most important of these, extract and fluid extract of Fucus vesiculosus, are not prepared according to any official formula, and are naturally therefore liable to great variation, it is best to refer again to the reservations made in a previous article of this series. It is not possible to arrive with perfect certainty at the precise composition of such articles by analysis; and when, as in the case of any nostrums, the maker can draw on all unofficial and even non-medicinal substances for his ingredients, it is inevitable that some shall remain not certainly identified. It may fairly be assumed, however, that such unknown substances possessing no well-defined chemical characters will not be likely to have much, if any, therapeutic importance. In a lecture given in 1903 at the London Hospital on patent medicines, Dr. Robert Hutchison gave the principal constituents of a number of nostrums, and it may be of interest to quote his remarks on the class of preparations here dealt with. He said, — " The obesity preparations have given me more trouble than any of the others. In the case of some, at least, I was entirely unable to discover the exact composition. I fully expected to find that some of them would contain thyroid extract, but in that I was disappointed. One of them consisted mainly of extract of Fucus vesiculosus (bladderwrack), which has long been believed to have a tendency to diminish stoutness, though its claims rest on no very strict scientific basis. Another consisted chiefly of citric acid, which is interesting when one remembers the popular belief that sucking lemons makes one thin. As regards several of the others I confess to being puzzled. This, however, I must say in fairness, that I had the curiosity to write to some of the people who had supplied testimonials to the makers of these remedies, and found that, so far as I could discover, the testimonials were genuine, and that those who supplied them believed at least that their weight had been reduced by the medicine. I can only say that I wish I knew of any remedy which could be counted upon safely to reduce weight in the absence of any change of diet."

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[J. M. MASON.

Antipon. Supplied by the "Antipon" Company, 13 Buckingham Street, Strand; 2s. 6d. per bottle, holding a little over 6J fluid ounces. The bottle bears no label, but has the word "Antipon" blown in the glass. A circular enclosed with the bottle gives a number of rules on the subject of dietary, together with statements on the merits of the article, from which the following extracts are taken: — "As a really permanent cure for corpulence, combining remarkable fat-reducing properties with tonic principles of the highest quality, 'Antipon' is justly regarded by the most competent authorities as one of the most valuable discoveries in modern therapeutics, solving once and for all the vexed question of the radical cure of obesity without harmful after effects. ' Antipon ' absolutely and definitely replaces all the weakening and frequently dangerous processes, systems, and medicines which have hitherto done duty as remedies for the disease of obesity. It provides the medical practitioner and the public with a powerful and entirely harmless specific not hitherto within their reach. " Within a day and a night of taking the first dose there will be a reduction of weight varying from 8 oz. to 3 lb., in extreme cases even more. The subsequent daily decrease will be persistent until normal weight and dimensions are attained, when the doses may be discontinued. "Directions for Use. —Take two dessertspoonfuls in half a wineglassful of water, immediately after meals. N.B. —After taking dose, cork the bottle securely." Analysis showed the liquid to be a solution of citric acid in water, of the strength of 393 gr. in a fluid ounce; a red colouring substance is also present, and o'4 per cent, of alcohol, the latter being doubtless introduced with the colouring. The red colour can be perfectly matched with cochineal, but the behaviour towards alkalies and other reagents shows differences; cochineal, with the addition of a little methyl orange, however, shows in most respects a similar behaviour. Estimated cost of ingredients (6 J fluid ounces), ljd. Russell's Anti-Corpulent Preparation. Supplied by F. C. Russell, Woburn House, Store Street, London, W.C. Price, 6s. per bottle, holding 12£ fluid ounces. This preparation, like the previous one, is in a bottle bearing no label; the letters " F.C.R." are blown in the glass, and the bottle is enclosed in a perfectly plain case, with no printed matter accompanying it. A pamphlet on the subject of the medicine is posted separately to the person ordering it; in this it is explained that, — "Acting upon the many suggestions received, principally from ladies, the bottles are packed quite plainly, and without the ordinary trade labels usually found upon medicines, &c. The box is quite devoid of advertisements or anything whatever likely to denote its contents. The servants and others attached to the household may therefore be safely intrusted to open the box ; inquisitiveness, if present, will not be rewarded." In this pamphlet very detailed directions are also given for taking the medicine, and for diet and exercise. It is also stated, — "In a very short space of time, say, twenty-four hours, a considerable quantity of the most unhealthy fat will have been removed from that part of the system most in need of relief from the adipose matter oppressing it (the quantity varies from 8 oz. to 2 lb., or even more). " The dose is one tablespoonful in a half-wineglassful of water, within, say, ten minutes after each meal." Analysis showed the liquid to consist of a solution of citric acid in water, containing 37 gr. in a fluid ounce. The orange colour was found to be due to iron, which is present to the extent of o'ol2 per cent.; and o'4 per cent, of alcohol was also found. Addition of this proportion of iron in the form of the ammonio-citrate was found to give a practically identical colour, and the formula is thus, — Citric acid, 37 gr. Iron and ammonium-citrate, J gr. Rectified spirit, 2 minims. Water to 1 fluid ounce. Estimated cost of ingredients (12J fluid ounces), 2'ld. Absorbit Reducing Paste. This and the following preparation are supplied by Miss Johnson, " The Celebrated Hygienic Skin Specialist," 41 Conduit Street, W. The paste, or both preparations, appear to be also known under the name of " Zobeide," as the paste was supplied in response to an order for "Zobeida," and the jar bears a label giving a so-called " analysis " (which it is needless to say is no analysis) beginning, " We have carefully examined the Zobeide Tissue Absorbers and Paste." The price of the paste is 3s. 6d., and the jar contained just over 2 oz. The directions on the label are, — "Rub in a circular direction, at night, where needed, for five minutes or more; firm, even movements, and only use as much as the skin will absorb."

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The "paste" is a pink ointment, containing 93 per cent, of a fatty basis, 4'B per cent, of a substance which agreed in its characters with dried bile, and was evidently ordinary " purified ox-bile," and a little carmine, the remainder being moisture. Further examination of the fatty basis showed a considerable proportion of beeswax, and the analytical results obtained agreed with a mixture of— Beeswax, 23 parts. Lard, 46 parts. Rapeseed (colza) oil, 31 parts. It is not possible, however, to assign an exact formula to a mixture of fatty substances like this. The composition of the paste is thus (approximately),— Purified ox-bile ... ... ... ... ... 5 per cent. Beeswax ... ... ... ... ... ... 22 ~ Lard ... ... ... ... ... ... 44 ~ Oil ... ... ... ... ... ... 29 „ Carmine ... ... ... ... ... ... q.s. A trace of perfume is also present. Estimated cost of ingredients (2 oz.), 3d. /. Z. Obesity Tablets. Supplied by Miss Johnson, 41 Conduit Street, London, W. Price, 2s. a box, containing twenty-five. The directions are, — " Two at night dissolved in the mouth as an ordinary lozenge." The "tablets" are flat oval lozenges weighing 19 gr. each. Analysis showed their composition to be as follows:-— Sulphur ... ... ... ... ... ... 24 per cent. Ginger, about ... ... ... ... ... 4 ~ Sugar ... ... ... ... ... ... 61 ~ Acacia gum ... ... ... ... ... 8 ~ Moisture ... ... ... ... ... ... 3 ~ Estimated cost of ingredients (twenty-five lozenges), £d.

[Extract from the British Medical Journal of the 26th January, 1907, page 213.J The Composition of Certain Secret Remedies. kidney medicines. Warner's "Safe" Cure. Put up by ?i. H. Warner and Co. (Limited), 36 Clerkenwell Road, London, E.C. Price, 2s. 9d. a bottle, holding 8 fluid ounces. " Dose for adults, one tablespoonful five or six times a day." The label bears the words, " For Kidney and Liver and Bright's disease and jaundice, gravel, stone " —and a long list of other complaints. A " medical pamphlet " of thirty-four pages accompanies each bottle, from which the following extracts are taken: — " Warner's ' Safe ' Cure is a purely vegetable compound, and contains no narcotic or harmful drugs; it is free from sediment and is pleasant to take; it is a most valuable and effective tonic; it stimulates digestion, awakens the torpid liver, and puts the entire system in the very best receptive state for the work of restoring the kidneys. It does its work with absolute method, preparing the tissues, soothing and stimulating the enfeebled organs, healing at the same time. It builds up the body, gives it strength, and restores the energy which is or has been wasting under the baneful suffering of kidney-disease. Warner's ' Safe ' Cure was discovered about thirty years ago by one of the most eminent specialists in diseases of the kidneys, who had made a life-study of kidney and kindred diseases." "How to test your kidneys: Put some morning urine in a glass or bottle; let it stand for twenty-four hours; if there is a reddish sediment in the bottom of the glass, or if the urine is cloudy or milky, or if you see particles or germs floating about in it, your kidneys are diseased, and you should lose no time, but get a bottle of Warner's ' Safe ' Cure, as it is dangerous to neglect your kidneys for even one day. Bright's disease, gravel, liver-complaints, pains in the back, rheumatism, rheumatic gout, inflammation of bladder, stone in the bladder, uric-acid poison, dropsy, eczema, scrofula, blood-disease, offensive odour from sweating, so-called ' female weakness,' painful periods, too frequent desire to urinate, and painful passing of urine are all caused by diseased kidneys, and can be speedily cured by Warner's ' Safe ' Cure, which has been prescribed for twenty-five years." Of Bright's disease it is remarked, — "It is one of the harassing complaints which physicians in family practice seldom have the patience to investigate and manage with sufficient care " !

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The predilection on the part of the gullible public for vegetable remedies is no doubt answerable for potassium-nitrate being classed as "purely vegetable" in so many of these medicines. In the precent case analysis shows the presence of potassium-nitrate, alcohol, glycerine, a trace of oil of wintergreen, and vegetable extractive; there is no alkaloid or similar active principle, and the extract has little distinctive taste or character; all its properties point to its consisting largely of extract of taraxacum, with some other extract containing a small quantity of a tannin ; a careful series of comparisons with all the drugs in ordinary use which were not excluded by various tests did not identify it with any of them, and it is probable that it is obtained from some nonmedicinal plant. The following formula gives an almost identical mixture: — Potassium-nitrate ... ... •■• •■• • ••■ 50 gr. Oil of gaultheria ... ... ... ... ••■ £ minim. Rectified spirit ... ... ... ••• •■• 5 fl. dr. Liquid extract of taraxacum ... ... ... ... 10 fl. dr. Glycerine ... ... ... ••• ••• ■■• 4fl. dr. Water to ... ... ... ... ••• ••• 8 fl. oz. This contains about 10 per cent, of pure alcohol, which is the proportion found in Warner's Cure; in a mixture of which a tablespoonful is to be taken five or six—or, according to the handbill with it, six to eight—times a day, this proportion of alcohol is by no means negligible. In such a mixture as this there is no means of determining exactly the amount of liquid extract of taraxacum, especially as the latter preparation is liable to vary considerably in colour and in amount of solid residue; this is by far the most expensive ingredient in the above formula, and it is probable that the amount is here overestimated. Taking the quantity here given, the estimated cost of the drugs for one bottle of the mixture is 5Jd. Veno's Seaweed Tonic. Manufactured by the Veno Drug Company, 59 Cedar Street, Hulme, Manchester. Price, Is. l|d. a bottle, holding 2f to 3 fluid ounces. " Dose.—For an adult, one teaspoonful twice or three times daily." The label states, — " Contains in a pleasant and agreeable form the active principles of seaweed. First introduced into the medical world by Mr. Veno, and now admitted to be a most efficient and valuable medicine. Veno's seaweed tonic is prepared on an entirely new principle, and is free from poisonous or mineral drugs. It cures all ailments arising from a diseased condition of the Stomach, Liver, Kidneys, and Blood, which, when diseased, cause nearly all sickness." The following extracts are taken from a pamphlet enclosed with the bottle: — "Veno's Seaweed Tonic is a specific remedy; money cannot make it better. If it fails, no other medicine will ever succeed; but sufferers must have patience." " Kidney Diseases, Weak Back, Backache, or Lumbago, Incipient Bright's Disease. If you suffer from a weak back, with pain, soreness, or stiffness; if there is a dragging weakness in the limbs and lack of muscular energy; or if your urine is very clear or high-coloured, showing a sediment of white flakes through it, it indicates a weakness or disease of the kidneys. Veno's Seaweed Tonic should be taken for at least two or three months, in teaspoonful doses twice or three times daily, after meals." The mixture contains a small proportion of undissolved sediment, which, when collected and examined, agrees in all respects with the insoluble portion of leptandrin. Glycerine, a little phosphate, alcohol, and a trace of chloroform are present, and vegetable extractive. Careful examination of the latter gave evidence of the presence of the constituents of cascara sagrada, senna, and rhubarb. Such a mixture as this cannot, of course, be quantitatively resolved into its components, and the proportions given below were arrived at by comparisons of the properties of various trial mixtures with the properties of the original; no indication was obtained of any substance derived from seaweed. The following formula gives a practically identical mixture: — Leptandrin ... • • ■■'• •■• ••• 10 g r - Sodium-phosphate, crystals ... ... •■• •■■ 33 gr. Liquid extract of cascara sagrada ... ... ... 45 minims. Concentrated infusion of rhubarb (1-7) ... ... 1 fl. dr. Concentrated infusion of senna (1-7)... ••■ •■• 2J fl. dr. Glycerine ... .... ••• ••• •■■ 2 fl - dr - Chloroform-water ... ... ••■ ■■• ■•■ 1 fl-oz. Water to :... • ■ ■■• ••■ ■■• 3 fl - oz - Estimated cost of ingredients, l|d. Munyon's Kidney Cure. Put up by Munyon's Homoeopathic Home Remedy Company, 272 Oxford Circus, London, England. " Manufactured in U.S. of America." Price, Is. a bottle, containing 132' pilules. " Directions : Four pellets every hour."

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The label bears the words, " Cures Bright's disease, gravel, all urinary troubles, and pain in the back or groins from kidney-diseases." The following extracts are from a circular enclosed with the bottle: — " Munyon's Improved Homoeopathic Remedies are radically different from those used by the regular school of homoeopathy or any other system of medicine. We have the true cure for the most obstinate as well as the most intricate of diseases. The whole secret of Munyon's Remedies is the science of combining and harmonizing all drugs that are known to cure certain diseases, so that by our special combinations we cover every phase of the case, no matter what the complaint. There is no experimenting, no guesswork, but an absolutely fixed law of cure." " Munyon's Kidney Cure has no equal. It cures pain in the back, loins, or groins, from kidney disease, puffy and flabby face, dropsy of the feet and limbs, frequent desire to pass water, scanty urine, dark-coloured and turbid urine, sediment in the urine, gravel in the bladder, and too great a flow of urine." The pilules were found to vary much in size, the average weight being o'6 gr. Analysis showed them to consist of ordinary white sugar ; no trace could be detected of any alkaloid qr other active principle, or of any medication. The sugar was determined quantitatively, and found to be just IOO'O per cent, of the weight of the pilules. Estimated cost of contents of bottle,

[Extract from the British Medical Journal of the 29th June, 1907, page 1550.] Secket Remedies and Proprietary Preparations. In the eighth article of the series dealing with secret remedies and proprietary preparations (Deut. mccl. Woch., 6th June, 1907), Dr. F. Zernik states that, in spite of the excessive number of nutrient preparations on the market, new ones are constantly being introduced. He deals with three of these. Cacaol is described as a first-class dietetic nutrient preparation. It costs Is. per half-pound. It is a brownish powder containing numerous white particles, and smells strongly of cocoa. On analysis it was found to contain cocoa, with 2"5 per cent, of common salt, 15 to 17 per cent, of sugar, and 20 to 25 per cent, of oatmeal. Eggose is also highly praised by the makers (Lauser, of Regensburg). One half-box costs 60 pfennig, while the whole box costs 1 mark 20 pfennig. It consists of a mixture of oatmeal, a trace of wheaten flour, sugar, and cocoa. Besides these ingredients, minute traces of lecithin, or a substance containing lecithin, were detected. Visvit is advertised " as the most perfect nutrient preparation of the present day " by a Berlin firm. It is said to contain lecithin-containing proteids, eggs, milk, haemoglobin, and cereals. The analysis revealed that it consisted, when regarded as water-free substance, of 78 per cent, of nitrogen-containing substances, the chief of which was wheat-gluten. About 123 per cent, was starch, which was only imperfectly dextrinized. The total content of lecithin was found to be 042 per cent. This would correspond to about 0"83 per cent, of yolk of egg; but as the manufacturers claim that some of the lecithin is derived from other substances, it must be assumed that less than this percentage of egg is present. Only 0 - 46 per cent, of the total 11*52 per cent, of nitrogen is derived from haemoglobin. Visvit costs 3s. per 100 grams. August Shrader's Plaster is a widely-used secret remedy. Three varieties are put up in packets, each packet costing 3s. 7d. No. 1 is supposed to be a remedy for caries of bone and other bone-diseases. No. 2 is advised for gout and rheumatic complaints, and also for herpes; while No. 3 is prepared for the cure of "salt flux" and wounds of all descriptions. The plasters are 17 cm. long and 2 cm. broad. They contain 30 per cent, of fat, besides chalk, zinc-oxide, litharge, calcium-sulphate, iron-oxide, and charcoal. Rheuma-Tabakolin is quite a new preparation, introduced by Gustav Laarmann, of Berlin, and is sold at ss. per box, containing about 100 grams weight of material. The quantity for neglected and obstinate cases costs 15s. It is supposed to be a newly discovered remedy obtained from tobacco for rheumatism and gout. The contents of the box is to be extracted with about 24 oz. of a 50-per-cent. alcohol. This extract is to be ased as a local application for the painful areas. The analysis showed that the substance consists of waste and powdered tobacco, perfumed with lemon-oil. The price is quite out of proportion to the cost of waste broken tobacco, which can be bought at from sd. to 6d. per pound. Zernik adds that toxicologists believe that tobacco should not be applied externally. Kapitol smells strongly of menthol. It is a white ointment and consists of 63 per cent, water-free cotton fat, 14"5 per cent, of water, and 225 per cent, of menthol; 12 grams cost Is. The ordinary menthol stick has the same action, and is considerably cheaper. The Paracelsus Sleeping Bandage is supposed to remove sleeplessness. It consists of a thin silk bandage, to which are applied two silk strings, ending in knots at each end. One of these knots or tassels is to be inserted into each external meatus, and fastened with the other string, while the bandage lies across the eyes, neck, or throat. 5.—1. 14.

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It is impregnated with small quantities of indifferent perfumes, such as 01. pini pumilionis and kumarin, but no trace of any narcotic substance could be detected. Zernik cannot imagine how the bandage is to act, unless it be by deadening sound. A number of remedies for gall-stones are next mentioned. These are Gallin, Gallstone Remedy of Koehme (against which the Health Department of Carlsruhe has issued warnings), and Dr. Franke's Gall-stone Remedy. These and similar gall-stone remedies consist of a purgative and a large quantity of some form of oil. The oil, together with the purgative, produce more or less copious evacuations, having a soft, nodular consistence and being bile-ooloured. The manufacturers state that the motions contain softened gall-stones ! Another class of remedies of this nature are those which are supposed to cure jaundice and gall-stones. They contain alkaline saline purgatives and vegetable laxatives. Among other preparations of this class examined he mentions Dr. Ziegler's "Specific" against gall-stones and jaundice, and Lithosan.

[Extract from the British Medical Journal of the 3rd November, 1906, page 1223.] New Drugs and Secret Remedies. Dr. F. Zernik, assistant in the Pharmaceutical Institute of the University of Berlin, has, at the invitation of the Editor of the Btut. mcd. Wochenschrift, undertaken to report on some of the new drugs and secret remedies which are thrown on the market, in order that the busy practitioner may glean something of their therapeutic value. The first instalment, published in the issues of September '6 and October 25, 1906, deals with the following: — Berendorf's Powder for Epilepsy. —Each package contains on an average 275 grams of powder consisting of 53 - 3 per cent, of potassium-bromide, 403 per cent, of octahedral borax, 4 per cent, of zinc-oxide, and 2\5 per cent, water. Dr. Zernik suggests that the borax has probably been added in consequence of a note published in the Berl. Klin Wochenschrift in 1904, in which it was stated that borax could be recommended in cases where bromides could not be tolerated, and especially where hyperacidity was present. It may be added that borax was at one time extensively used in France, and to a less extent in Great Britain, as a remedy for epilepsy; Dr. Zernik adds that zinc-oxide is recognised as a nerve-sedative. The gall-stone remedy of Dr. Med. Franke, of Offenbach, is put up in four bottles. The first contains a small quantity of a highly diluted fluid, probably a vegetable tincture, though its actual nature could not be determined; it is directed that this shall be taken in drops for a few days before the remedy proper is started. The second bottle, to be taken in the evening, contains 1 50 c. cm. of a watery solution of a drug containing emodin (either fraugula or senna or both). The contents of the third bottle, to be taken next morning, are identical with those of the second; the fourth bottle contains 150 c. cm. of an oil, probably olive-oil, faintly coloured red. Lithosan, formerly called " cholosan," made at a chemical works in Berlin, probably contains rhubarb-tincture, peppermint-water, and watery extract of chelidonium and valerian. In spite of the assertions of the manufacturers it was not found to contain lithium. Dr. Zernik suggests that the active principle in this preparation is chelidonium, a remedy formerly employed in the treatmentof catarrhal jaundice. Pearson's 6-per-cent. lodvasogen. —The iodine in this preparation is not free, but is present as ammonium-iodide; the brown colour is artificially produced, and is not due to free iodine. The absence of free iodine accounts for the fact that the preparation does not produce irritation. lodvasolimente is an alternative preparation, sold in shops; the iodine is partly combined with oleic acid or with ammonia, and is partly free; its brown colour is due to the free iodine. Melioform, made by a firm in Berlin, and recommended as a disinfectant, consists of formaldehyde, aluminium-acetate, borax, and glycerine, coloured red and perfumed with bergamot-oil. The proportions were: Formaldehyde solution 25, liq. alumin. acet. 15, borax 25, glycerine 30, water to 100. New Sidonal, made by a firm at Charlottenburg, was found to contain about 75 per cent, of anhydrous quinic acid, and 25 per cent, of free quinic acid. It is therefore surprising that the manufacturers advise subcutaneous and rectal administration of the preparation as well as application by the mouth. Quinic acid, it may be added, is found in cinchona barks and in many other plants; in the preparation of quinine it is left in the filtrate from the precipitated alkaloids. Noordyl drops is a preparation identical with Noowtry's diphtheria remedy; it consists chiefly of an alcoholic solution of oil of ruscus and pix fagi. Ruscus aculeatus is, according to the "National Standard Dispensatory," the ditch grass, sea-grass, or tassel-grass, or tassel pondweed, related to asparagus, and used as a diuretic and diaphoretic. Pix fagi is beechwood tar. Felke's Plant Tonic was found to be a 15-per-cent. aqueous solution of saccharated oxide of iron, to which some 10 per cent, of alcohol and an extract of a purgative drug had been added.

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Planted, which, according to the prospectus of its maker (Dr. W. Brackebusch, of Berlin), cures all sorts of ailments, renders the blood alkaline, prevents stroke and removes superfluous fat, was found to contain sodium-bicarbonate 4355 per cent., sodiumsulphate 15-53 per cent., sodium-chloride o'4B per cent., tartrate 23 per cent., tartaric acid and citric acid 14 - 01 per cent., iron-oxide and magnesia o'l3 per cent., water 33 per cent. Antipositin, advertised by the firm of Dr. Med. Wagner and Marlier, of Berlin, as an obesity cure, and Slankal, made by F. J. Wallbrecht and Co., of Berlin, have a similar composition. The sanitary authority at Karlsruhe has issued warnings against their use. Smith's Gloria Tonic, described as a dear remedy for gout and rheumatism exported from England to Germany, was found to consist chiefly of guaiacum resin, with a small quantity of potassium-iodide. Dr. Med. Hartmann's nerve-food Antineurasthin is manufactured in Berlin, and a pamphlet is published by his firm at M. 1.25 (about Is. 3d.), which states that it is a tonic for the nervous system in general and a preventive for all nervous weaknesses ; while it does not interfere with other forms of treatment, it is itself unaffected by these. It costs 3s. per box of twenty-four pastilles, which were found to consist of dry yolk of egg, milk-sugar, a small quantity of starch, dextrin, and an aromatic substance. Brandol is introduced by a Dortmund firm for the treatment of burns, and was found to contain picric acid, 1 per cent, of which is dissolved in tap-water, about o'4 per cent, being undissolved. Weak solutions of picric acid are recognised in the treatment of burns. Bour's Capsula duplex Momachica is put up by a Trier firm in boxes containing twenty gelatine capsules and sold at 2s. 6d. per box. Dr. Bour believed that by enclosing silver-nitrate in small black gelatine capsules and enclosing these in larger capsules containing other medicaments, the silver salt would not undergo any decomposition. The substances in the other capsule are bismuth-subnitrate 025 gram, sodium-phosphate and sodium-carbonate each O'l gram. Zernik found, however, that the silver-nitrate was more or less decomposed, and, further, that, although it was stated that each capsule contained O'Ol gram, only about half of this quantity was actually present in the samples examined by him. Froniosasprudel is, according to the manufacturers, a nerve-remedy indicated in sore throat, cold in the nose, rheumatism, nervousness, fainting, vomiting, sweating of feet, chilblains, &c. It costs 3d., 6d., or Is., and consists of 22-per-cent. alcohol, and 08 per cent, of sodium-bicarbonate, together with a trace of menthol and a resinous substance. Kaiser Borax and Kaiser Soda, in spite of the fine name, do not differ from borax and sodium-bicarbonate respectively. Mueglitzol, a preparation of formaldehyde, has been placed on the market by a chemical works in Dresden, and with each bottle a pamphlet by Dr. Clug is enclosed. In the latter it is stated that the preparation is a chemical combination of formaldehyde with a substance gained from bituminous slate, from which the formaldehyde gas is liberated slowly. It is recommended for sweating feet. On analysis, however, it was found that it contained free formaldehyde in a 6-per-cent. solution, and a small amount of an ichthyol-like substance, while the fluid is perfumed with an aetherial oil. The Antigout Powder of the Madri Benedittine of Pistoia should be taken for a whole year to cure gout. The cost for the year's supply is 50 francs. Each powder contained 1\ grains of Colombo root and of patschuli-leaves, both of which substances are inert as far as gout is concerned. Stege's Herbal Wine is said to regulate the digestive organs. It was found to consist of an infusion of certain roots, such as calmus, ginger, curcuma, angelica, valerian, and aloes in a white wine. Sulphopyrin, manufactured by Ebert and Meincke, of Bremen, is supposed to be a substitute for migraenine. It is stated that it is a sulphanilate of antipyrin, but is really a mixture of 86\5 per cent, antipyrin and 135 per cent, of sulphanilic acid. The latter drug has been recommended for some time past for catarrhs, but has not been used hitherto for headache. It is therefore probable that the action of sulphopyrine depends on its antipyrin contents. TJ.ricedin is a Berlin product, manufactured by Stroschein. It has been vaunted as a remedy for the gouty diathesis for some thirteen years, but its composition is very simple; 2| per cent, consists of sodium-chlorate, and 66\5 per cent, of dry sodiumsulphate, while the remainder is composed of sodium-citrate and sodium-tartrate. Winter's Nature Health Restorer is a Washington preparation. Each carton contains 200 chocolate tablets, and costs 4s. 2£d. It consists chiefly of aloes. A warning against its use has been issued in Carlsruhe and elsewhere.

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[Extract from the British Medical Journal of the Bth December, 1906, page 1645.] The Composition of Certain Secret Remedies. ridne y-medi cine 3. The next group of nostrums which we have taken for analysis consists of those which are put forward for the cure of kidney-troubles. Several of these are in the form of pills, while others are liquids. The two principal drugs employed are oil of juniper and potassium-nitrate, separately or together; in some cases aperients are added. Altogether extravagant claims are made for some of the articles, as is usual, of course, with proprietary medicines; we refer more fully to these in individvial cases. In analysing complex mixtures, such as some of these nostrums are, it is of course not possible to attain the same precision as when dealing with medicines which consist chiefly of inorganic salts, as in the case of nostrums for epilepsy, dealt with in an earlier article. A vegetable extract containing no definite active principle, such as, for instance, extract of taraxacum, cannot be identified by any direct test; if such an extract is mixed with another, with a powdered drug, an essential oil, or other preparation, its identification with perfect certainty may become almost impossible. The large variations, again, which may occur in the proportion of solid matter in a tincture or infusion, as well as the variations in the relative proportion of the different constituents of drugs, prevent the results of analysis being translated with certainty into the formula from which the mixture was compounded. These considerations apply to several of the articles in the present list; while the principal ingredient or ingredients in each case can be determined with little or no possibility of error, the subsidiary ingredients in some cases cannot be so determined; we have endeavoured to indicate in each case the possibility of such minor errors. Full use has been made of check methods, by compounding mixtures according to the formulae obtained by analysis and comparing them with the originals. Doan's Backache Kidney Pills. Put up by Foster-McClellan Company, 8 Wells Street, Oxford Street, London, W. Price, 2s. 9d. per box, containing forty kidney-pills and four dinner-pills. These pills are probably familiar by name to most people from the extensive way in which they are advertised in the newspapers. They are described on the wrapper of the package as a " Specific for kidney complaints and all diseases arising from disorder of the kidneys and bladder. Cure Back-ache, Weak Back, Rheumatism, Diabetes, Congestion of the Kidneys, Inflammation of the Bladder, Gravel, Bright's Disease, Scalding Urine, and all Urinary Troubles." A circular is enclosed with the box, in which a dissertation on " Diseases of the Kidneys and Bladder " is given, together with directions for taking the pills for various complaints. The following extracts are taken from the circular: "Doan's Backache Kidney Pills are composed of rare and valuable medicinal agents in a combination best adapted to the speedy relief and cure of Kidney Disease, urinary and bladder affections, and all diseases resulting therefrom. They are purely vegetable, containing no ingredients of a deleterious nature, and may be taken by the most delicate person, with every confidence of their giving quick and permanent relief, without any after ill effects." ". . . . they are the only medicine known that quickly relieves and permanently cures." " This medicine has restored to health thousands of women. As a means of healing the kidneys, and as a tonic to the whole female constitution, it is unequalled." The last sentence of the next extract shows ingenuity and originality: "Chronic cases of long standing. These frequently come under our. notice, and we hear that the patient, after trying every known remedy and failed (sic), has despaired of ever getting relief. Now in all stapes of Kidney Disease this is where Doan's Backache Kidney Pills are the most needed, and, indeed, are the only remedy possible to give permanent relief. But it takes time. One cannot expect to be cured in a few weeks. ... In some cases three or four boxes of Doan's Backache Kidney Pills are sufficient; but in these cases of long standing, 8, 10, and even 20 or 30, are required to effect a cure. But they will cure in the end if the patient perseveres. We are emphatic on this point, because in kidney disease patients are so easily discouraged. It is one of the symptoms of the disease." The directions are to take from two to four of the dinner-pills at night before commencing to take the kidney-pills; then to begin with one kidney-pill after each meal and one at bedtime, increasing the dose to two or three, after a short time of taking them. For children under eight, the dose is given as half a pill after each meal and at bedtime. The kidney-pills are ovoid in shape, and of a brown-grey colour externally, with sugar-coating beneath the thin coloured layer ; after removing the coating, the average weight of the pills is about 2 gr. Analysis showed them to contain oil of juniper and (in spite of their " purely vegetable " nature) potassium-nitrate, together with a considerable proportion of a resinous substance, and of powdered fenugreek seeds and wheat and maize starches. Examination of the resin showed it to be derived from a coniferous source, and on comparison with various coniferous resins it agreed in characters with that of Abies canadensis (Pinus canadensis), known as hemlock-pitch. The proportions of the different ingredients were determined by analysis; the oil of juniper, in such small quantity, can only be approximately determined, and the amount found was oon-

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firmed by comparison of a pill containing this quantity with the pill under examination. The following formula gives a similar pill: — Oil of juniper ... ... ... ... ... 1 drop. Hemlock-pitch ... ... ... ... ... 10gr. Potassium-nitrate ... .... ... ... ... 5,, Powdered fenugreek ... ... ... ... ... 17 ~ Wheat-flour ... ... ... ... ... ... i ~ Maize-starch ... ... ... ... ... 2,, In twenty pills. Estimated cost of the materials of the forty kidney-pills and four dinner-pills, |-d. The dinner-pills, of which four are included in the box of kidney-pills, are also supplied separately in boxes of fifty for Is. l^d.; these were examined as well as the kidneypills. It is stated on the label that " Doan's Dinner Pills Cure Constipation, Sick Headache, Biliousness, Dizziness, and all deranged conditions of Stomach, Liver, and Bowels." The directions are —"For adults, 1 to 3 Pills; for children, Jto 1 Pill." These statements and directions are amplified in a handbill enclosed in the package. The pills are ovoid, and enclosed in white-sugar coating; the average weight of one, without coating, is about f gr. Analysis showed the presence of podophyllin, aloin, oil of peppermint, a resin that appeared to be jalap-resin, cayenne, liquorice, gum, maizestarch, and a small quantity of an extract that resembled extract of henbane; as the latter extract has no sufficiently well-marked characters to distinguish a small quantity of it perfectly when mixed with larger quantities of the other drugs named, the identity of this ingredient could not be completely established. The following formula gives a similar pill: — Oil of peppermint ... ... ... .. ... 1 drop. Podophyllin ... ... ... ... ... ... 3 - 8 gr. Aloin ... ... ... ... ... ... 6-9 ~ Jalap-resin ... ... ... ... ... ... 0"8 ~ Powdered capsicum ... ... ... ... o's ~ Powdered liquorice .... ... ... ... ... o'6 ~ Maize-starch ... ... ... ... ... ... o's ~ Acacia-gum ... ... ... ... ... ... I*s ~ Extract of henbane ... ... ... ... ... I's ~ In twenty pills. Estimated cost of materials of fifty pills, Id.

Extracts pbom Supplement to "Truth," of the 22nd February, 1906. Murray Company. — Artificial ear-drums. Ward Chemical Company. —" Antidipso " drink-cure. Capillus Manufacturing Company. — Superfluous-hair destroyer. Helen Temple. — Superfluous-hair destroyer. Espanola Medicine Company. — Female-bust improver. Fell Formula Association. — "Anti-fat" tablets. Magic Foot Draft Company. — Cure for rheumatism. Grecian School of Physical Culture. The last eight names are aliases of one A. L. Pointing, trading at Century House, Regent Street, W., and in Pugh's Place, close by. Deals in ordinary quack remedies, mostly lifted, with the advertisements and literature distributed in connection with them, from American quacks. "Antidipso" has been shown by the Lancet to be a downright swindle, and several of the other remedies are no better. The Grecian School of Physical Culture is a reproduction of a Yankee notion for teaching physical exercises by correspondence. Bile Beans Manufacturing Company, Leeds. —The business of this company was declared by Lord Ardwall, in the Court of Session, Edinburgh, on July 5 last, to be "founded entirely upon fraud, impudence, and advertisement." The business is the sale of Bile Beans. British Viavi Company, Regent Street, W. —A quack establishment of American origin, dealing in remedies for female ailments. Engages women, who go about the country pretending to possess medical knowledge, delivering "health lectures," which they have mostly learnt by heart, and persuading deluded women that they are in serious danger unless they take the Viavi remedies and submit themselves to the treatment of the Viavi agents. The Physical Science Publishing Company, 55 and 56 Chancery Lane, London, W.G. —Makes offers of its nonsensical productions to children. K. Leo Minges. —Proprietor of a "cartilage treatment" which is guaranteed to add two or three inches to the height. It is undiluted humbug. American College of Sciences, Rochester, New York. —Sells course of instruction in magnetism and hypnotism.

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Yabe School of Jiu-Jitm, Rochester, N..T.— Professes to be able to teach the Japanese art of self-defence by correspondence. _ _ The three last-mentioned concerns are housed m the same building and are apparently the enterprises of one F. D. Shoemaker, jeweller, of 59 Page Street, ProVid ™ lartilage Ccm-pany, Rochester, N.T. -An offshoot of the same establishment now adVe Sry wLly advertised by a firm of American quacks calling themselves the "British Liquozone Company" as a cure for all germ diseases It ie SS more than a weak solution of sulphurous acid, a drug which is hke y to prove "ug cus if administered by inexperienced hands. At an inquest in June children who died after taking the stuff, the jury returned averdict that they died from exhaustion after vomiting and diarrhoea set up by taking liquozone. . exnaus on UcL J Uin Company, 16% Strand. -Vendors of the latest thing m "electric belts," the sale of which has been pushed by means of grossly md and literature, and by the most lavish advertisements not only in England, but all over the world OwingVthe prosecution of its London representative an ex medical .practitionlr who had been struck off the Register after a conviction of felony) for illegally holding himself out as a qualified medical practitioner, the business appeared for a while to be on the down grade, but latterly has shown-signs of revival. The Derk P. Tonkerman Company, 6 Bouvene Street, London, £.6.—The advertisers of a cure for consumption called Tuberculozyne, which claims to produce its effect by newly discovered salts of copper. Analysis proves the claim to be fictitious, and the methods adopted by the " company " in their advertisements are sufficient to prove these by postal circular, and omits to send the goods after the cash has been paid. Does this French" Mrs. Harris," who, through fW death "of her husband, has to dispose of some " fine old champagne cognac, four-stars, "itell/' at an enormous sacrifice. From the number of the letters in my possesSiOn t. T%^i:m g^Z: e Eoa d , Kn.dan.-4X™ analyst's certificate to quack Society of Science, Letters, and Art,

Uii W Pepperaint ft,, if t.k« t« ex*-, induce . pc,», to dri»k.-We h.,« knowledge of . oertji.. , ' i, it not . l.ot U>.t owing to their —Yes. , 154. Periodically ?—ln towns we do. 155. For inspection and exammafi£n officers to give lecture s to women on SSrit we want on our stafi is one or two highly LS nurses to B go out among the people and preach such things in their homes.

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Wednesday, 21st August, 1907. David Wishaht, examined. (No. 5). 1. The Chairman.] Where are you resident? —No. 3 Grant Street, Dunedin. 2. That is your home?— Yes. 3. How long have you been practising?— Fifteen years. i. Have you undergone any course of study?—l have. 6. At what institute?—At the Missouri Homoepathic College, St. Louis. 6. How long were you there? —For one course —six months. 7. Under whose control was it? —Under the control of a faculty. S. The medical faculty?— Yes. 9. And recognised by the Government? —Yes. Established now about fifty years. 10. What was the nature of the course of study you went through?— The ordinary course of study in any medical college, either in America or Britain. 11. Did you pass an examination in anatomy and physiology?—l did, sir. 12. What works did you read?—Quaine on Anatomy, two volumes. Physiology was one of the leading subjects, but I forget the author's name at the present moment. 13. Do I understand you to say that you mastered your course in anatomy and physiology in six months? —I did not say anything of the kind. 14. I mean did you master it without examination? —I did not pass any final examination, for the simple reason that my health broke down. 15. Did you get a certificate from the institution?— That is the attendance certificate of the course I attended. [Certificate put in.] That ought to have been signed by one of the principal authorities on midwifery in America. I studied under him also. When I left St. Louis he was down south on an orange-farm that he was part owner of. 16. Can you mention the subjects of the lectures that you attended? —I do not think I can give them all at the present time. It is a long time ago, and if my memory had not failed me I would not be sitting before this Committee now. 17. Of course you know that when a man has " swotted ,; up for an examination he has good reason to remember the subjects?—At a homceopathic college what you mainly study is materia medica; but I attended not only the materia medica course, but clinical lectures under Dr. McElwee, one of the highest officials. I think you will find his name on the list given. 18. Did you visit any of the hospitals?— Yes; we went once a week under one of our professors to the City Hospital, and also to one of the children's hospitals. 19. Do you know anything about the operation of drugs?—l guess I do, or else I could not prescribe homo&opathically. 20. Do you know the effect of strychnine in cases of lockjaw or tetanus: would you give strychnine in such cases?—lt would depend upon what produced the lockjaw. 21. Supposing you did not know what produced it? —Well, if I did not know what produced the lockjaw I would probably prescribe such a remedy as cicuta. 22. What is cicuta?—A homoeopathic remedy made from a plant called water-hemlock, that is used in some of such cases. 23. Do you know what is the cause of lockjaw?— Well, it arises from several causes. It may be produced as the result of shock, or it may be the result of drugs, or poisoning, or injury. 24. What is it in its nature: what is it due to? —Contractions. 25. Is it due to a microbe? —No, Ido not think so. lam not a microbe man at all. 26. So that if a person gets his hand cut or receives a wound of any kind and lockjaw sets in, it is not due to a microbe ?—I do not tjiink so. 27. Will you explain some of the principles of your treatment?— Briefly stated, homceopathy is the law according to " similars," as discovered by Samuel Hahnemann. That is to say, it is a well-known fact that the administration of belladonna will produce a rash, in some instances, known as the belladonna rash. It produces a rash all over the body similar to scarlatina. And according to our laWj scarlatina can be cured and is cured in a short time by minute doses of belladonna. 28. Do you diagnose before treating?— Certainly. 29. What are your drugs confined to: are they herbal, or do you give particular minerals?— We ransack the universe for remedies. Homoeopaths were the first to use nosodes. In 1868 Dr. Swan discovered that the morbose product of fixed diseases contained the poison that caused the disease, and that the poison, if potentised, would cure the disease that produced it. The poison of the following diseases —measles, diphtheria, scarlet fever, small-pox, hydrophobia, typhus fever, yellow fever, malarial fever, eczema, erysipelas, blood-poison, syphilis, scrofula, scirrhous, cancer, lupus, leprosy, glandular diseases, arid gonorrhoea and tuberculosis; especially in cerebro-spinal and pulmonary cases —was prepared and successfully used in potencies of not lower than one thousand and upward, the higher being the most successful, the result being not only to cure the present attack, but to entirely eradicate the poison from the system. 30. Is there anything else you would like to call attention to: I notice this introduction [produced] is taken from the Homoeopathic Physician for April, 1891 ?—Yes. 31. Do you know of any cases which have been sent to you by medical men ?—No, sir; medical men are utterly at variance and utterly opposed to men like me—that is, the dominant school are. 32. You mentioned a number of medical men under whom you attended in your course of lectures I —Yes.

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33 I suppose you are aware that those men, having a recognised standing from the professional standpoint, were men who have passed through a course of lectures such as those, say, at Edinburgh?—l agree with you, sir. Dr. McElwee was the Chief Health Officer at St. Louis, and surely he was no fool. . . ... , ~ ~ 34 Where did he graduate?—ln America. I guess that surgeons in America will hold their own with others, either here or on the Continent. I suppose there is no greater surgeon than Mcßurney, of America. . ~ _ 35 How is it that in New Zealand such men have difficulty in getting registered?- Because the medical men in New Zealand hold that their diplomas are not so good as their own; but, asi a matter of fact, they are quite as good. I venture to say that if these medical men had to study in America they would not find themselves where they are. There is not a man in America that holds an official position in a hospital without getting it by competitive examination. 36. Do you know the length of the course in America: is there a hve-years course?—lt was three years ; it is now four. .. 37. Are you aware that it is three years now?—lt is not three. There is no reputable college in America that would pass a man in three years. 38. We have men applying to get on the Register here who have not had a four-years course I— That may be; but that is not the law in America to-day. 39 Since you have been in practice, have you had any cases sent to you by medical men I— Not sent to me. I have had lots of cases come to me from medical men, but not sent by them. 40. Do you consult a medical man before you treat? —No. 41. You diagnose yourself ?—Undoubtedly. _ , , 42. And you base your diagnosis on a six-months course in an institute in America?—lt is not based on that at all. . 43 After putting in a six-months course you started to practise I —l did not. 44! How many years elapsed from the time you took your course before you started practising—how many years? —Less than two. 45. And since then you have been continually carrying on this work?—l have; but 1 carried on the work before I went to America. 46. How long?— Since I joined the army in 1865 I have been treating. 47. Do you charge? —Yes, I guess I do. 48. What is your scale of fees? —7s. 6d. a visit, including medicine. 49 You prescribe then ?—Yes, I prescribe my own medicine. 50. I suppose you are aware that it is unlawful to charge?—l am not aware of any such thing; 1S 51° You could not recover in a Court of law for giving advice?—lt is nor unlawful for me to practice medicine. 52 Are there other men practising on the same lines?—JNot many. 53. Are you the only man practising in Dunedin as a homoeopath ?—I believe I am the only unregistered practitioner. 54. You have read the provisions of this Bill? —I have. 55 Do you agree with the object in view ?—Yes, I do. 56 Do you approve of all the clauses in the Bill ?—No, Ido not. . 57' To what clause or clauses do you take exception?—l object to the Board proposed to be set UP ' V.VmjZSfS dare say you and the members of this Committee are perfectly well aware that there is direct antagonism between the two schools of medicine and I dare say you are also aware that the homoeopath uses very little medicine as compared with the pharmaceutical practitioners. The homoeopath uses very small amounts of drugs. I make as. many as fifteen hundred or two thousand prescriptions a year, and my drug-bill does not amount to TsuppTy every one with medicine; so that a man like me going before the Board would be condemned before he was heard should afi d d the public agai t adventurers and charlatans even if they be practising the same as you are?-Yes, m a sense, undoubtedly; but of Juri there are more ways of protecting the public. For instance, if you allowed a man like ™lf to recover fees it would be some protection. In a case of overcharging, there would be undoubtedly right to appeal to law, and if the Resident Magistrate or Supreme Court Judge thoughtlhe y charge g was the patient would have redress. Undoubtedly an unregistered man shou dbe allowed to collect his fees by process of law, seeing that he has to pay taxes. It is not fair, if I have to pay taxes in all directions., that I should not by law be allowed to recover in New Zealandl-No, although there are a lot of intelligent neocle who prefer the homoeopathic treatment and practice, we are in a minority. people who prefer t 1 & praotige h pa t hy , whether t>l. Do you MJ y not?—l think if a man knew nothing about it he would very soon homoeopathic medicines and drugs accurately he would get no effect. tise without the requisite knowledge-would not that be 62 But allowing any F harm?—No, sir. I say that emphatically, and I will Uke y 1D a m nTnst C ance fwent to America to study medicine I did not go because I could not £r a Tvin e 2Shingle. Thave studied medicine ever since I was alad I was invalided fSm the army through overstudy, and I came out to New Zealand a semi-invalid. I was on the St of breSil down again, when in sheer desperation I went to Dr. Wanless who was a graduate Sun Sty LdTanftell ng you what is an absolute fact when I say that from one consultation

D. WISHAKT.]

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and one prescription I got more good than from nearly three treatment both, at Home and in New Zealand, and by his treatment I was able to stand up to business. I was then one of the salesmen in Begg and Co.'s music warehouse in New Zealand. [See letter attached.] 63. What treatment do you apply in cases of diphtheria?— One of the leading remedies in diphtheria, according to the homoeopathic school of medicine, is a remedy taken from a snakehachesis; and another leading remedy is one called hac. caninum, prepared by the late Samuel Swan, of New York. It is a very peculiar remedy, but one that can be relied upon, and I have no hesitation in saying that it will cure diphtheria in ninety-eight cases out of a hundred. 64. How does it act oir the system ?—You dissolve in water a powder made from the potentised milk of a bitch dog, and administer minute doses to the patient. Samuel Swan discovered it and gave it to the homoeopathic practitioners. I say as an absolute fact that the remedy cured ninetyeight cases of diphtheria out of 100 times it was tried. 65. How do you recognise diphtheria: what are the appearances?— There is a membrane extending well down the larynx of the throat, and under the homoeopathic treatment 66. But how do you recognise whether it is a case of diphtheria or not: what are the symptoms or appearances: how would you diagnose it?—Of course, I would open the patient's mouth, and if I found anything like the appearance of a membrane 67. But all cases have not got membranes? —No, they have not, that is true, until they are well advanced. 68. How would you distinguish it from quinsj'? —lt is very difficult to distinguish one from the other frequently; but you see I must tell you that, so far as homoeopathic treatment is concerned, we do not lay the stress upon diagnosis that the dominant school of medicine do. 69. Do you not think that before you should be allowed to prescribe and practise your course of instruction, you should know exactly what the disease or ailment is that you are going to attack?—No, I deny that in toto. 70. Then you believe in treating ?—A set of symptoms. 71. But you require to know? —No. 72. If you do not know you might try the same treatment for congestion of the brain as for inflammation of the bowels? —It does not matter. 73. You know that there is a certain treatment for congestion of the brain, as for constipation of tha bowels? —The same drug will do if the symptoms be present. What does it matter if it is brain-fever or gastritis ? 74. Do you not apply your remedies according to certain diseases? —No, not as a rule; we deal with symptoms. 75. Can you give me the symptoms that indicate congestion of the brain?—l would not say I could from memory. 76. Or bronchial pneumonia? — You would find very disturbed breathing in bronchial pneumonia, and fever, and as the disease progressed the patient would not be able to lie down. 77. Would you apply the stethoscope? —No, I prefer to put my ear to a patient's chest, as I think I can hear better. I was brought up as a musician, and I think I have a right to say so. 78. In an examination of the heart and lungs you use your ear?—As a rule a homoeopath can dispense with physical examination. For instance, we never lay hands on a woman. We think it is a degradation to the patient and to ourselves. 79. Mr. J. Allen.] You object to the Board set up by the Bill?— Yes, strongly to the Board. 80. Do you object to any other part of the Bill?—I think the Bill is a violation of the liberty of the subject, to a very large extent. If I left New Zealand on a trip to Queensland, why should Ibe deprived of the right to leave my wife in the hands of a man like Mr. Cooper—a man who has no diploma, who had never studied medicine? Medical men are not made by study. The majority of them are mechanics, although some of them are exceedingly clever. 81. You said you had studied midwifery?—l had a six-months course under one of the best men in America, named Richardson, whose text-book is recognised throughout the civilised world. 82. Do you practise midwifery?—l do not. 83. Do you prescribe for any of those cases in any way?—l have relieved a woman when she has come to me, and prevented an abortion. I have done that repeatedly for a man's mare on a farm. I have prevented her from aborting by prescribing homoeopathic medicine. 84. I understand you to say that you diagnose on symptoms? —Yes, or we treat on symptoms. We are not concerned about what 'the disease is, but what drug the particular symptoms present call for. That is the idea of homoeopathic treatment. 85. Upon what knowledge or training do you come to a conclusion as to the symptoms?—l will give you an illustration. We were talking just now about pneumonia. Mr. W. D. Mason, of Middlemarch, was down with double pneumonia. He was diagnosed by the doctor at Middlemarch. I did not diagnose the case, but Mr. Mason knew by the expectoration that he had pneumonia, and telegraphed for me. When the window and door of his room were opened he breathed freely, and was comfortable in his breathing. In some cases of double pneumonia the breathing of cool air is a comfort to the patient, but the doctor had advised him to have the windows closed and a fire put in his room. When I got up there and saw that I said, " You should have your window and door open," and the window and door were opened and the fire was removed. The doctor wanted to poultice him; but the wet poultice on his chest made his breathing more difficult than ever, and I said, "We will have that removed," and it was removed. Although his temperature was as high as 103° he cared for no liquids, and if you offered him water he refused it. He refused tea, milk, or any liquid. 86. The Chairman: I do not think the Committee require you to go into details like that. 87. Mr. J. Allen.] The question I asked was about the symptoms? —Well, here was a man without thirst, and yet with a very high fever. He was breathing more comfortably in cool air than in warm air. That man recovered. 6—l. 14.

[D. WISH ART.

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88. You found in this case a symptom of high fever?— Yes; without thirst, and no desire for liquids. 89. And you applied your remedy to reduce the fever? —Exactly. 90. That is the whole principle?— That is the whole principle to a very large extent._ 91. And you do not think it necessary to have a knowledge of anatomy or physiology? —It is not absolutely essential, sir. I say that emphatically. I have proved it by practice. 92 I should like to get from you the specific part of the Bill you object to J —lt this Committee think fit to recommend that this Bill be passed, I hope and desire that they will insert a clause to the effect that homoeopaths shall be exempt from its provisions. 93 From which provisions ?—From the whole of its provisions. 94. Sore. Mr. Fowlds.] I understand that you practically object to the whole of the Bill as applied to homoeopaths ?—I do, sir. )( 95. I suppose you recognise that there are people that would be known as quacks who are doing an injury to the people: that is the essence of what is meant by the term " quackery ' ? —I am perfectly well aware of that. _ 96 And you agree that something should be done to prevent them preying upon people to their hurt?—lf it can be done; but I apprehend that you cannot do it, for the simple reason that the men and women who run after people of that kind are more diseased in mind than m body, and neither patient nor doctor understands the case at all. 97 And you think we ought not to attempt to find any remedy for those conditions that you admit are an injury to the people?—l would not say that, but I say, in American phraseology, you are barking up the wrong tree. ~.._. . , a. .i. • 98. Then, can you indicate the tree up which we should bark?— Yes, instead ot teaching children in the schools physiology they ought to be taught the use of herbs. 99 You would not contend that a knowledge of physiology would be a bar to a person teaching homoeopathy?— Not a bar, but I contend it would be practically of little service to him or the advancement of medicine in a general sense. A terrible lot of time is wasted in schools by the constant learning of how many muscles and ligaments come into play in swallowing a moutntul of food. What service is that when it comes to be a matter of treatment for disease? 100. Mr. T. Mackenzie.] Have you ever treated appendicitis?—l have. 101 Do you think appendicitis could arise from the consumption of frozen meat? —A man who would say that appendicitis arose from the consumption of frozen meat would be talking 102. Do you think Sir Frederick Treves would make a statement of that sort? —I believe he has made more than one wild statement. _ 103. I am speaking from Black's Medical Dictionary: you do not think it would arise from the consumption of frozen meat?—l would not dream of it. 104. When W. D. Mason suffered from double pneumonia, was it before or after December, 19051—Before. 105. Mr. Hornsby.] You object to the proposed constitution of the Board J —Yes, as a nomoeoPa 106°' What do you think we should put in the place of that Board?—A judicial Board, purely and simply. . . . . , , T . 107 Consisting of laymen?— Yes. Are they not just as competent to judge of evidence J It I go before a judicial Board and produce evidence that I have the skill to treat disease, I certainly would not be afraid that I would not receive justice; but to ask me to go before a Board that condemns me practically before I am heard is out of all reason. 108 Do you mean to say that men appointed in this way—men of known probity, men ot high attainments—would prejudge you?— They have done so over and over again. Human nature is just the same now as it was a hundred years ago. 109 But here are men who would be chosen for their high attainments, men who have been singled' out from their professions by reason of their high attainments and probity: do you mean to say that in going before such a Board you would be prejudiced ?—I believe I would. 110 The Chairman.] You see no objection to going before a judicial Board?— No. 111 And to be examined as to your skill?— Yes; assuming, of course, that the evidence of such men as I have treated would be taken. I should like to mention the names of certain men; but Mr. Allen has proposed a motion that the evidence be printed, and for this reason I should not like 112. You say you have no objection to a judicial Board being set up to examine you as to your skill ?—Not the slightest. . ~ „ , ,■„ ± ta--113. What subjects would you be willing to be examined in? —As to my skill to treat diseases. 114 You have no objection to being tested as to your ability to diagnose disease? —If you say I would require to pass an examination in physical diagnosis it would be useless to go before a Board, because, no matter how I " swotted," I could not memorise the technical names. 115. You say you attended a course of instruction in America?— Yes. 116. "You set a value upon the examinations there? —Yes. 117. To obtain any knowledge from the professors they would have to be competent men I —Yes. 118. Would you not think that a judicial body would be quite as justified in examining you in any subject as the profession in America ?—I think it would be useless altogether. ' 119. If it would be useless now it would be useless then? —I apprehend that a judicial Board would have to examine into my treatment of diseases and the curing of them, no matter what_ my knowledge of anatomy or of any other subject as taught in a medical school. As a young man in a barrack-room I treated all kinds of diseases. I got a knowledge of drug-action, and that is all a man requires.

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120. Would you object to being examined to test your skill, if you are asked now to give the different symptoms of disease affecting the heart: if the valves were affected, what symptoms would you expect to find—would you object to that question?— Yes, in a sense. I can put my ear to a man's chest and tell pretty well if there is anything wrong with his heart. The valves may not be closing, or there may be organic disease. I can tell that not so much by having studied physical diagnosis as by process of intuition, a thing which neither this Committee nor any one else can give to any man. 121. That is surmise? —No, not surmise. 122. And on that you would be prepared to swear to the man's condition? —On that I would be prepared to swear that you had heart-disease if you had it. 123. If I said so?— Yes. Of course, when I come to a conclusion of that kind I put it to the test. I can give you a remedy according to the symptoms I find. 124. Then why object to an examination on symptoms that indicate certain diseases: if you recognise and know the symptoms why object to an examination?—lt is a very different thing memorising the technical names for symptoms and knowing them when you find them. A man may have a very poor memory and yet be very highly gifted intuitively, and in every department of life I am prepared to say that the man with intuition is going to beat the ordinary practitioner every time. 125. Supposing you were taken to a hospital and saw a patient in bed, and you were asked the question, "What is wrong with that patient?" Would you object to that question?—l would not object to such a question. You may take me to any hospital to test me, or to a whole ward, and I will diagnose any case you like to bring before me. 126. You would not object to the Board testing your practical knowledge?— Not my skill. 127. And the treatment of disease?— Exactly. I might not accurately put my finger on the exact disease according to the text-books, but if I did not cure that person I would willingly be accused of committing manslaughter. 128. Supposing you took a patient in hand at a certain time and that patient died? —Well, what about it ? 129. Thereby preventing other treatment which, taken at the time, might have cured the disease: what have you to say to that? —Well, I am not in the habit of killing people. Dead people are of no use to me. The only people I can get any money out of are live people, and my ambition is to keep people alive and not kill them. For instance, I had a very acute case of influenza abdominalis, with very acute pains in the abdomen, and with high fever. 1 saw the patient six times in thirty-six hours, and cured it. 130. Give me the symptoms you noticed that led you to believe it was that trouble and not another trouble?—lt could not have been another trouble that I could imagine. 131. The symptoms only applied to that trouble--well, what were they?— They might have applied to something else, certainly, but that is what I apprehended it was. 132. What were the symptoms? —Very acute pains in the abdomen, with retching and high fever, with a good deal of thirst and severe headache. I treated that case on the symptoms and had that patient well in thirty-six hours. 133. What is the difference between the symptoms you mention and the symptoms of appendicitis? —The pains in the case of appendicitis are in the appendix. 134. What about the head?— You cannot have high fever without headache. 135. What was the difference in the symptoms between appendicitis and the trouble you mentioned? —In the case of appendicitis the pains would be confined to the region of the appendix, whereas in the other case the pains would extend over the whole of the abdomen. 136. What is the distinction in regard to the symptoms of appendicitis and the case you mentioned? —I have told you. That is all I know about it. 137. Mr. J. Allen.] Would your treatment be the same or different? —It would be dissimilar. In one case if the pain is in the region of the appendix arsenicum comes into view at once, and you would possibly use iris, whereas if the pain was ot-er the whole of the abdomen you would try aconite. 3 Grant Street, Dunedin, 27th August, 1907. S IE) There is one very glaring mistake in my evidence which I simply cannot assent to—viz., toy reply to the question : " But allowing any man to practise without the requisite knowledge, would not that be likely in many cases to do a great deal of harm? " Doubtless owing to a failure on my part to keep the "point" before my mind I gave an irrelevant answer, and stated how much' benefit I had received from one prescription given me by the late Dr. Wanless, who (allow me to add) converted me to homoeopathy, and who afterwards persuaded me to read the Materia Medica. What I should have said was something to this effect: viz., " The doses used by a homoeopathic prescriber are so small in amount that little or no harm can be done to the human system even by a badly selected remedy ; also, any ill effect produced in such a manner would last only a short time after the drug had ceased to be administered. Of course, harm would be done in that it would delay the exhibition of the appropriate or curative remedy." I wish, therefore, to be permitted to substitute the above answer for the one I gave when before the Committee. I have also to direct your attention to the fact that some of the essential points have been omitted in the quotation made from a paper put in by me as evidence in reply to the question as to the source of our remedies. —Yours, &c, D. WISHAKT. Edward D. Dunne, Esq., Clerk Quackery Prevention Committee, Wellington.

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Thomas Cahill, M.D., M.Oh., examined. (No. 6.) 138. The Chairman.'] How long have you been in practice?— Twenty-three years. 139. In Wellington? —Yes, and before I came to the Dominion. 140. You have read the provisions of the Quackery Prevention Bill, a measure now before Parliament ?—Yes. 141. You approve of the general objects of the Bill?—I approve of the object of the Bill, and my sympathies are with it; but Ido not think the Bill will attain the object sought. I think it will have quite a contrary effect. 142. Upon what do you base that opinion? Would you like to make a statement?—l would like to make a few remarks on the vendors of patent or secret medicines and the patent medicines themselves. 1 would like to preface those remarks by saying that lam not interested in the sale of drugs, secret or otherwise, The medical profession has sometimes been accused of being, from interested motives, at the bottom of a crusade against this trade of quackery. I may say the medical profession, either in whole or in part, has never discussed the matter. Neither the New Zealand Medical Association nor the branches have discussed the matter. Pew individuals of the medical profession have taken any public interest in the subject, for the simple reason that they would waste a lot of time and would not be thought unprejudiced. I think the attitude of the profession is wrong. They see that a great injustice is being done to the poor and ignorant, and I do not think they should be silent on the question. With regard to the secret remedies, I would divide them into three classes, first, there is the worthless class. I will give examples. The Strand Magazine has been put into my hand, and I see advertised Antipon, which is supposed to be a remedy for obesity. It is based on the popular idea that sucking lemons makes you thin. It is citric acid, and is sold in bottles containing less than a third of a pint and retailed at 6s. The intrinsic value of it is 2d. Then there is Russell's Antifat Care, which is similar in composition but of a different colour, and the value is the same (2d.). It is retailed at 6s. The next is Petroleum Emulsion, which has been shown up by two commissions—one, I think, was the Lancet Commission and the other at the King's Hospital, London—to be utterly valueless as a drug. It is merely a liquid form of vaseline, holding in suspension hypophosphates of lime and soda. The only effect the petroleum seems to have is to prevent the absorption of the hypophosphates, which might be of some use. The petroleum passes through the system unchanged. That is retailed at 2s. 6d. and 4s. 6d. a bottle. I will give you an example of how this hurts the poor, A short time ago I attended a very poor family. The husband got 2 guineas a week. He had a wife of forty years of age, dying of phthisis, and six children, the eldest of whom was 13J and the youngest 2J years. He paid 14s. away per week in rent, and yet to add to his misfortunes he was swindled in purchasing stuff of this sort put on the market, and supported by a system of fraudulent advertisements. Then there is Munyon's Kidney Cure, put up by Munyon's Homeopathic Home Remedy Company, 272 Oxford Circus, London, England. " Manufactured in U.S. of America." Price Is. a bottle, containing 132 pilules. " Directions: Four pellets every hour." The label bears the words " Cures Bright's disease, gravel, all urinary troubles, and pain in the back or groins from kidney-diseases." The following extracts are from a circular enclosed with the bottle : "Munyon's Improved Homeopathic Remedies are radically different from those used by the regular school of homeopathy or any other system of medicine. We have the true cure for the most obstinate as well as the most intricate of diseases. The whole secret of Munyon's Remedies is the science of combining and harmonizing all drugs that are known to cure certain diseases, so that by our special combinations we cover every phase of the case, no matter what the complaint. There is no experimenting, no guesswork, but an absolutely fixed law of cure." " Munyon's Kidney Cure has no equal. It cures pain in the back, loins, or groins from kidney-disease, puffy and flabby face, dropsy of the feet and limbs, frequent desire to pass water, scanty urine, dark-coloured and turbid urine, sediment in the urine, gravel in the bladder, and too great a flow of urine." The pilules were found to vary much in size, the average weight being 06 gr. Analysis showed them to consist of ordinary white sugar; no trace could be detected of any alkaloid or other active principle, or of any medication. The sugar was determined quantitatively, and found to be just 100 per cent, of the weight of the pilules. Estimated cost of contents of bottle, -g-gA. Count Mattel's and the other so-called cancer cures come next, the latest of which comes from South Africa in the form of the dainty application of frogs. There is a second class of drugs which, though useful for a particular purpose, are fraudulently advertised as beneficial in a variety of cases. The most popular one of these, I think, at present in New Zealand is Pink Pills. Pink Pills consist of carbonate of iron and arsenic ; there is another formula containing sulphate of iron. They are sold wholesale to chemists at £1 7s. a dozen boxes, containing about 2J gross of pills. They can be made for Is. 6d. a gross. They are sold readily at 2s. 6d. a box, and the unfortunate poor girls who suffer mostly from anasmia and are employed in shops are deluded by the advertisements in newspapers to purchase these pills at an exorbitant price. What is sold wholesale at 275. could be sold over the counter at 2s. 6d. a gross with a very fair profit. 143. That is Blaud's pill ?—Yes. 144. Blaud's pill can be sold at 2s. or 2s. 6d. per gross. The chemist only makes 2fd. out of Pink Pills, but there is such a demand for them through this rascally system of advertising that the unfortunate chemist is forced to keep them. Another pill of this class is the Bile Bean. Bile Beans came before the Courts of Scotland, and the Bile Beans Company were told by Lord H. that their trade was "founded and conducted on fraud." They appealed, and, of course, his lordship's decision was upheld. But Bile Beans thrive in New Zealand to-day. 145. Are you aware that there was a case in Dunedin, in connection with which Mr. Justice Williams pointed out that Bile Beans pills recipe was taken from a book of formulas ? —Nearly all are—there is no question about it. Doan's Backache Pills belong to the

T. CAHILL.]

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same class. There is a third class of drugs which are absolutely harmful. These are mostly liquids, and the sale depends largely upon the amount of alcohol they contain. That is the opinion of a recent Commission of Inquiry held in New York. Others of this class contain morphia, Indian hemp, chloroform, and other narcotics. This class would include sarsaparilla, Warner's Safe Cure (which, of course, contains some drugs besides), Keat's Cough Elixir, cough and consumption cures, Painkiller, &c. These are all sold at frightfully exorbitant prices, and the prices I have quoted justify one in concluding that, compared with the secret-drug trade, usury does not seem to be a very dishonest avocation. It is inconceivable that the law should insist upon the purveyors of mixtures of starch and mustard and coffee and chicory declaring on their labels their contents, which are perfectly harmless, while it allows the vendor of patent drugs to prescribe recklessly at the expense of the public health. lam not certain that so-called respectable chemists do not also require looking after in this respect. Within the last year I was called out of town a couple of miles to see a poor woman—ignorant, of course —who was suffering from eczema of the leg. She applied to a woman as ignorant as herself, who professed to have an infallible cure, and with whom she contracted, for the price of £30, to take the treatment. This woman actually got £20 down; she was practising as a nurse. I saw the woman and examined her. and found that she was suffering from atropine poisoning. I could find no cause for it, and I asked her what she had been taking, and was told " Nothing." I afterwards found that a certain belladonna ointment had been applied to the leg, and she had been poisoned. 146. There had been absorption, then ?—Yes. I brought the cup in which I found the compound and had it analysed by Dr. Maclaurin, the Colonial Analyst, and I have no doubt you will find in his records the result of his analysis, which bore out my contention. I asked this woman afterwards about it. She was threatened with a prosecution, and I got from her a statement where she got the ointment. She told me it was stramonium ointment. There is no such ointment in any pharmacopoeia in any civilised nation. She got this ointment from a wholesale drug company, which supplied her largely with it. It was a system of fraud all round—fraud on the patient, fraud on the ignorant person who was supplied with it, and fraud on the part of the persons who sold it, 147. Do I understand that the warehouses will sell such things ?—They may be expected to sell anything so long as exorbitant prices are paid and the present system prevails. The persons I refer to are in high places and consider themselves exceedingly respectable. Continuing my illustrations, I know of a case of another kind. A poor girl goes first of all to a doctor, who diagnoses cancer. This doctor tells her to consult another doctor, which is usually done in such cases, and he diagnoses cancer which is operable. Then she goes to one of these persons we have been speaking of, is told she has net got cancer, is put under one form of treatment or other, and dies some months afterwards—of course, of cancer. 148. Mr. J. Allen.] What person did she go to ?—ln this case she went to one of those gentlemen who call themselves metaphysicians. 149. The Chairman.] Can you give us his name ? —Yes, if necessary. The case I am referring to happened to be a very well-known one. There is a special class of imposter I should like also to refer to —those gentlemen who live by a system of organized fraud in the robbing of young men. I refer to men like.Freeman and Wallace, and Dr. Blmslie. 150. Is he not a qualified man ?—He is a man who has been knocked off the rolls at Home. He is blind, and conducts a trade in treating young rascals who get into trouble. His clients are mostly country people, who send him £10 or so for his treatment. 151. Is he on the Register?— Yes, he was put on the Register. 152. Notwithstanding that he was struck off the rolls in the Old Country ?—Yes. The Medical Association here sent home his advertisements to the place he came from, and was informed that they could do nothing ; it was a matter for ourselves. 153. Did you take any action? —What can we do ? 154. Mr. J. Allen.] What Act was he registered under?— Under the 1868 Act, I think. 155. What is the most recent Act ? —Last year's. 156. The Chairman.] To deal with such men, what do you suggest ? You say you could not take any action, and had to register him ?—You could bar his advertising. 157. After allowing him to go on the New Zealand Register?— Under the old Act a man might get on the New Zealand Register by mistake, but once on you have no power to take him off. 158. Mr. J. Allen.] But under the new law there is power?—-Under the new law you may. The public very wrongly have an idea that whenever the medical profession take up any question of this kind their action is prompted by self-interest. The trouble is that the public think we are making a close body of the medical profession for our own interests, whereas as a matter of fact we are only trying to protect the public. I will give you a case of how the poor boys are robbed. 159. The Chairman.] Robbed through the advertisements dealing with sexual cases ?—Yes. One concrete case is worth a lot of talk. Quite recently in England—last December, reported in London Truth —a man named Hawkins was convicted. He had several aliases, such as the "Rev. David Jones," the "Rev. Joseph Hope," and so on. It was shown by his books that his annual turnover was something like £4,500 a year. Hawkins dealt largely in two magical specifics, both powders, one of which he called Gloxiensis, the other Corossa Compound. The following analysis of these mixtures were given in evidence at the trial: Gloxiensis—Bicarbonate of soda 72 4 0, bromide of potassium 277, dust and impurities 03; Corossa —Bromide of potassium 565, bicarbonate of soda 38-5, cinchona 4-0, dust and impurities 1-0. The Gloxiensis was charged at 17s. Bd. a packet, and the Corossa 18s. lid. a packet, the cost-price in each case being 2d. The worst feature about these scoundrels is this: that in nine-tenths of their cases the poor young men and some older ones have a bee in their bonnet, and only want a little kindly advice. Those that are diseased are losing valuable time in taking such treatment. Take the boy who is unfortunate enough to contract syphilis,

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he never gets cured. Of course, there is a class of Christian who says that a boy of this character deserves his punishment, but I do not agree with that dictum, because unfortunately the people who really suffer are the innocent ones, such as the wife and children of these men. In this country there is no difficulty in getting good advice. First of all, the poor people have the hospitals to go to, also the lodge doctors who attend a whole family for £1 to £1 10s. a year ; and, moreover, no man in this country who is suffering is denied advice on the ground that he is not able to pay the fee. There are also excellent books on household medicines—for example, one by Cassell—but at the same time there is a large number that are not only bad, but are fraudulent and filthy—books which are issued by the publishers to defraud the public. Besides the drug fraud we have of course, the electrical physician. There was one named Richards, who is now serving a sentence in England for fraud. He sold electrical chairs at from £25 to £100, while the actual cost would not be more than 15s. anywhere. Worst of all, public bodies are sometimes used m the interests of the imposture. In Wellington, at the Benevolent Home, the Trustees gave a testimonial for such treatment. The Chairman of that body at the time was a member of the Legislature. Amongst this class of frauds is the McLauchlin Belt. I see there is a slump in these belts at the present time, but you will never displace these frauds under our system of legislation, because the magnetic belt is sold under different names, such as the Appareil Magnetique. There is a still more dangerous fraud amongst us—the hypnotist. These philanthropists profess to come to the aid of the medical profession and show the greatest concern for it. At present there is a wave of hypnotism all over the world. A more glaring instance it is impossible to imagine than was advertised in yesterday morning's paper, which contained a most untruthful statement about Sir Frederick Treves to the effect that he had a contempt for medicines. He has no such contempt for medicines. In suitable cases he uses them freely. These benefactors further profess to cure the incurable members of the public, and, if so, I think the Government of the country ought to use them with a view to getting rid of their " incurable " hospitals. I notice also that the advertisement in the Times did not appear in the Post, because no doubt the country people are more gullible. There have been other daring advertisements inserted in the papers, but I think this is the most daring one. A similar class is that represented by the Pacific Coast Magnetic Electrical Company, representatives of which travelled through this country a few years ago. They had three medical men with them, who were merely used to examine men's hearts, so that a man might not drop dead when going through their system of imposture. Another kind consists of those who undertake the drink-cure, when every one knows that the proper treatment is to alter the surroundings of the unfortunate victim so that you may make a healthy citizen of him, for there is no patent way of doing it. 160. The Chairman.] Clause 3 of the Bill says : " Any preparation other than those prescribed and supplied by a duly qualified registered medical practitioner should bear upon every package, bottle or other parcel, whenever and wherever sold, vended, or supplied, a fac-simile of the certificate issued by the Board. Any contravention of this clause shall be and shall be deemed to_ be an offence " Do you approve of that clause? If not, why?—l do not approve of that clause. I think the certificate proposed to be issued will have a very bad effect. Suppose you put it on the bottle, and allow the rascally advertisements at present used to continue, will not the certificate enhance the sale of such stuff ? Take Pink Pills as an illustration: you get a certificate that it is useful, but it is not useful for all the complaints that it is advertised for. It is a fraud in every sense of the word This dru» is only good in some cases of anaemia, but there are lots of cases of anasmia that it would not cure. The majority of cases of anasmia are best treated by the commonest form of iron—steel drops—and this without other treatment would, in the majority of cases, not be successful, so the proposed certificate would only tend to enhance the fraud. There is another danger involved, which I think is absolutely fatal to the proposition of the certificate ; you might get the Dominion into disgrace through it. Suppose one made up a little capsule of . . . He gets a certificate to the effect that it is an excellent tonic, &c. He may use it in cases of malaria and so on, but also for the most infamous purpose as a preventative. The vendor may m such a case attain his purpose by wrapping the preparation in paper specially printed and calling attention to the illegitimate uses it may be put to. . 161. The Chairman] The chemists object to clause 3. They say, "It is the common practice for all chemists to put up their own counter specialities, and clause 3 would compel them to disclose their trade secrets and submit a long list of such preparations for the approval of the proposed Board thus putting them to considerable expense and possible litigation m order to compel the Board to grant registration. Chemists' proprietary medicines have m many instances stood the test of public opinion for forty years without a known instance of misadventure, and ample protection to the public is already in existence, as aggrieved parties can take civil action or institute criminal proceedings against careless vendors. In this connection the qualified chemist carries more responsibility in his dealings with the public than any other class of traders, as his mistakes involves serious consequences? "—Nonsense. Unmitigated humbug. What of those injurious powders they give to children ? They make up cough mixtures containing morphia It proprietors of secret remedies can sell powders of bromide of potassium and soda worth 2d. for 18s. 9d., and pilules of sugar worth the thirty-sixth part of a penny for a shilling, there may be some reason on the part of the vendors for not taking their clients into their confidence. _ 162. Would you object to the qualified chemist supplying the public with simple household remedies, such as liquorice-powders and so on? —Certainly not. 163. Ought they to be allowed to do it ?—Certainly. _ 164. Then you deny this contention as to trade secrets ?—Absolutely. There is no such thing as a trade secret that is not well known to science. 165 Mr J Allen.] If you discovered anything, you would be compelled to make it known / —Yes I would be compelled to, or would be struck off the Register. I have no objection to the sale of simple remedies over the counter. Ihe whole thing is very simple; but if a chemist is going to put up a proprietary medicine he ought undoubtedly to put the prescription on his bottle.

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Of course, the sale of all drugs ought to be limited to legally qualified people and medical men. In the country I think the storekeeper ought to be licensed, but any medicine that is prescribed ought to bear the prescription on the bottle. The illustrations I have given go to show you that the whole trade of quack remedies is only a phase of the confidence trick, conducted by imposture and really paid for in the life-blood of the poor and ignorant. With regard to the Bill, there are two features which I think are fatal to it. * The Board is perfectly useless, for two reasons : the Board as a whole is utterly incompetent. There are only two members of the Board (the medical men) who are of any use at all, and I will show you that they too are perfectly useless for the purpose intended. It is no use to put a man on the Board unless he knows something about the subject he may be called upon to decide. The chemist is only a druggist, whose function nowadays is practically confined to mixing medicines ; he knows nothing of disease or the practical application of drugs for the cure of disease. Take a common drug like digitalis, the ordinary chemist could not tell you in what forms of heart-disease it may be used and in what forms it may not. You might justjas well say that a surgical-instrument maker could perform operations, when he knows nothing about surgery. In every trade or business a man must be brought up and properly educated to perform his work. For example, in the towns you will not allow a plumber to undertake drainage-work unless he has served his apprenticeship, passed his examinations, and is licensed to do so. To show you how useless members of the medical profession would be on the Board : Suppose a man puts'on the market one of the complicated new drugs which are constantly coming in. He says, " There it is. It comes properly accredited." How are you going to proceed to analyse that drug ? You have neither the time nor the appliances to do so. You have first to experiment with the lower animals, and then to try it over hundreds of cases to test the value of this particular drug, and members of the medical profession have not the time nor the opportunity to do so. The only effective remedy is to limit the sale to.those preparations known to be useful, to insist on the publication of the contents of each parcel; and, secondly, to stop the misleading and dishonest advertisements. That is the only possible way of dealing with the evil. The Board is unworkable as it is, for the reasons I have given you. Suppose Blaud's people were able to advertise their compound for anaemic troubles, that might be all right; but when the stuff is advertised as a remedy for a thousand other things it becomes a fraud. 166. Mr. Hornsby.] Say for locomotor ataxia? —Yes. Now take the herbalist: where does such a man get his education with regard to drugs? What knowledge can he possibly have ? And if this wonderful man who pretends to know so much has sufficient knowledge, why does he not go and pass his examinations as a chemist, which will give him certain rights under the statute ? You will not allow a carpenter to work at his trade unless he has skill and has passed through an apprenticeship. Therefore why should you allow these other men to practise without passing an examination ? 167. The Chairman.] With regard to homeopathists, do you think they should be allowed to carry on business without passing an examination ?—No man should be allowed to practise a profession of any kind unless the public have a guarantee that he is competent to do so. 168. As to the metaphysician, have you heard of cases which doctors have sent to a metaphysician to treat? —I have never heard of such a case. I think it is ridiculous. 169. What is your opinion of the metaphysical treatment ?—I understand it is a perfect fraud. 170. Have you studied the question of mental therapeutics ?—Yes; this, as commonly understood, is only another name for hypnotism. 171. "Will you give shortly your opinion of hypnotism ? —lt would be impossible to give m a few sentences any adequate idea of this subject; but, if I may be permitted, I will give you some extracts from a paper I recently read before the Medical Association, which, I think, fairly presents the present position of hypnotism. 172. Yes, I think that would be satisfactory?— Hypnotism has for more than half a century been the subject of much intelligent and well-directed research. We are indebted more especially to Charcot, Eicher, Babinski, Bouruville, Fere, Bernheim, and Moll on the European Continent, and to Braid, Dr. W. B. Carpenter, Sir James Simpson, Sir Henry Holland, Sir David Brewster, Ernest Hart/john Tyndal, Huxley, and Bay Lancaster in England. I may say at once that the condition induced, whether of convulsion, cataleptic immobility, languor, submissiveness, trance, or the acceptance of suggestion or command, may be shown to be due to a nervous condition, or mental state, arising in the individual subject, either from physical or mental excitation; and, further, such convulsions, by whatever names they may be called, are not, and never were, due'to any healing-power, or to any fluid or magnetic influence, or mesmeric or hypnotic power resident in the operator, it is a common delusion that the mesmerist or hypnotist counts for anything in the experiment. The operator, whether physician, self-deluded enthusiast, or conscious imposter, is not the source of any occult influence, does not possess any mysterious power, and plays only a very secondary and insignificant part in the chain of phenomena observed. There exist at the present time many individuals who claim for themselves, and some who make a living by doing so, a peculiar property or power, as potent mesmerists, hypnotisers, magnetisers, electro-biologists, or self-styled metaphysicians. It has been proved over and over again that there is no such thing as potent mesmeric or hypnotic influence, no such power resident in any one person more than in another—that a glass of water' a tree, a stick, a stone, a candle, or an electric lamp, in fact, anything in nature, can mesmerise as effectually as can the individual. A clever hypnotiser means only a person who has acquired the physical or mental tricks by which the hypnotic condition can be produced, or sometimes an unconscious impostor who is unaware of the very trifling part he plays, and who supposes himself really to possess a mysterious power, which in fact he does not possess at all. The condition of hypnotism is a mental condition—a condition of disturbed equilibrium of the nervous system and" brain of the person operated upon. The phenomena which we observe in this state are identical with those we observe in hysteria. Hysterical patients frequently go through

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violent contortions, show evidences of various uncontrolled emotions, the fit commonly ending in languor, or a long sleep, or perhaps a flood of tears. Here we have some resemblance to the hypnotic state, and to the condition of convulsionists and demoniacs. Moreover, these attacks, when severe in character, or in highly nervous and unstable individuals, may go much further and show some striking illustrations of most of the phenomena characteristic of the extreme degrees of hypnotism and suggestibility without the employment of any hypnotic influences, and arising only out of the disturbed equilibrium of the nervous system. Observation and experiment have abundantly proved that there are a number of conditions either spontaneous or artificially produced, in which while the power of the will is abolished, and the brain loses its restraining and controlling power, emotions may be excited, feelings induced, and intellectual operations set in motion independently of the will of the individual, and without individual consciousness being alive to what is going on. These varied and allied conditions may and do occur under several sets of circumstances and influences which, at first sight, seem very dissimilar, but (and this is a principal point in any argument) are in reality related in a common bond. The convulsionists and demoniacs are thrown into the same condition of excitement, delusion, and insensibility to pain, and hallucinations, under the influence of the sight of similar conditions in others, or of suggestion by word, and they become amenable to, and are cured by the same agencies. The key to all these phenomena was first given by Dr. Braid, of Manchester. He published a pamphlet about 1850, entitled, "Magic, Witchcraft, Animal Magnetism, Hypnotism, and Electro-biology." It was Braid who first used the word "hypnotism" to describe these phenomena. He showed that the effects of the hypnotist are produced by setting in motion certain ideas in the mind of the individual, that the individual always hypnotises himself, that hypnotism is a state of induced sleep produced by verbal suggestion or artificial contrivance. You may in operating after the varied methods of the mesmerist, the hypnotist, or the electro-biologist, will the patient shall do whatever you please—sleep or not sleep ; but your will, unless it is expressed or indicated to the patient so as to afford him a mental suggestion on which he unconsciously acts, will count for nothing—he will fall into hypnotic sleep. His condition depends on what he thinks you wish, and not on what you really wish; and if you set before him an apple or a postage-stamp, or place him in front of a tree or a candle, and tell him you have mesmerised it, and order him to look at it and be influenced by it, he will be influenced by it whether you have made any passes over it or not, whether you have magnetised it or not, and whether you wish it to influence him or not. You have, in fact, as operator, nothing to do with the matter, except in so far as you influence by suggestion. We may now consider its uses as a therapeutic agent. There is nothing new to be added to the conclusions arrived at by Charcot, whose great erudition and vast experience command universal respect, and these conclusions have been amply verifiel by Ri:her and Bxbinski on the Continent, and Hart and others in England—namely, that for curative purposes hypnotism is very rarely useful, generally entirely useless, and often injurious. So far as hypnotism is gool for anything, as a curative ageut its sphere is limited to the rslief of functional disorder anl symptoms in hysterical subjects. Cures in these eases can be effected by any treitmant or no treatment, the cure frequently lasting as long as the treatment is fashionable. Babinski, Ballet, and others have shown that there are a great number of hysterical persons who are not capable of being hypnotized, while of those who are capable of being hypnotized many get no relief from their suffering, and others only get very partial and temporary relief, few receive any permanent bsnefit. Bernheim, and those who follow him, the Nancy school, put their pretensions higher; but any one who will analyse for himself the Nancy reputed cases of cure, or who will study Babinski's able analysis of them, will easily satisfy himself that such claims are not valid. Its uses in surgery have been insignificant, and its results imperfect. Used to produce anaesthesia the process is tedious, and the result is of uncertain duration. Moreover, the number of persons whose nervous system is in the unstable condition which makes them amenable to hypnotic influence is happily so few that as a practical method of anaesthesia it is unavailable, and far inferior to chloroform and other narcotic drugs. We sometimes hear of it in connection with tooth-drawing, and for the treatment of drunkards. To enable a dentist to draw a tooth painlessly the average man or woman is, by a series of sittings, to be reduced to the condition of a trained automaton, which, happily, is only possible in the case of a very small proportion. The criminal courts have seen enough of the hypnotic dentist. The use of "suggestion" for the cure of drunkards or the "suggestion" treatment of backward children —systematic and intelligent suggestion is what every doctor and schoolmaster tries to carry out, often successfully —-surely a much more commendable method than the degrading one of hypnotism. As for drunkenness, those of us who have made any inquiry know hypnotism to be a failure. It is worthless for the purposes of calming the excitement or producing sleep in the insane. The insane refuse to accept a suggestion opposed to their insane ideas ;of course hysterical melancholia is excepted. On the other hand its mischiefs are real. Dr. Luys, of the La Charite, one of the most enthusiastic apostles of the presumed benefits, is perfectly outspoken on the point. The individual, he says, in these novel conditions no longer belongs to himself—he is surrendered, an inert being, to the enterprise of those who surround him. He can be poisoned and mutilated. Where a woman is concerned, she may be violated or even infected with syphilis, of which I have recently observed a painful example in my practice. She may become a mother without any trace existing of a criminal assault, and without any recollection of what has passed after she has awakened. A subject accustomed to be thrown into the hypnotic state cannot protect himself, and is at the mercy of any scoundrel or imposter who chooses to adopt the various methods of impressing the imagination which are the slock-in-trade of all hypnotisers. We hear much about the supposed cures, but little about the victims. No one doubts the genuineness of hypnotic phenomena, but unfortunately credulity, superstition, chicanery, and fraud are the usual accompaniments of hypnotic practices and hypnotic exhibitions. I think I have said sufficient to show that against the supposed usefulness must be set the avowed as well as the unconfessed mischiefs wrought by hypnotic experiments, and I believe I can venture to say that these far outbalance any apparent good.

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The Chairman : Do you think the practice of hypnotism should be regulated by the State ?— Personally I would suppress its practice entirely. Surely we have here arrived at a most extraordinary position. You are at present legislating to suppress the tohungaism of the Maori, which in some of its most objectionable forms of " tapu " is merely hypnotism; and yet, I understand, some legislators would give this imposture a legal status when practised by Europeans. But if the people have not made up their mind of its worthlessness and dangers they should at least be protected from charlatanism and imposture. 'What would you suggest? —The absolute suppression of hypnotic exhibitions and the advertising of hypnotic cures. Its practice should not take place except in the presence of at least a third party, one of whom should be a legally registered medical man. I think there should also be a permit from the Health Department. 173. Do you think people should be allowed to give massage treatment for payment without having passed an examination?— No. 174. We have been told by one witness that herbal medicines cannot be accurately analysed ?— That is not correct. All substances can be analysed by some method or another; but many vegetable substances are so alike in composition that the analyst cannot always trace them to their botanic source. He can, however, group them into classes and demonstrate their qualities. But what is more important for your Committee is that the medical value can be estimated independently of the analysis. As an example, we cannot analyse electricity by a chemical method, but its value as a curative remedy has been accurately ascertained. These vegetable substances, which yield nothing chemically characteristic by which they could be individually identified, are as a whole inert and valueless for medical purposes. 175. Is it a common practice here for medical men to dispense ? —I keep a few drugs for cases of emergency. I think some do, but not the majority, 176. I wanted to know if medical men are doing their own prescribing?—l do not know that it is a common practice. 177. Do you know of any special reason why medical men should dispense?—l know no reason why a medical man should not do so if he wants to. 178. Mr. J. Allen.'] Do you know any reason why there should be any necessity for a medical man to dispense his*own drugs ?—There are many qualities of drugs, especially those derived from the vegetable kingdom. Some that are put on the market are absolutely worthless. They are converted into tinctures ; some can be standardised and others cannot, and there is no supervision by the State or otherwise. If you take a list from the wholesale people you will find English tinctures at a certain price and German tinctures at about half that price. Cheap preparations are made from the refuse of the drug market, and are worthless or worse—dangerous. 179. You think there ought to be State inspection of chemists' drugs in order to insure that the drugs are pure ? —Yes ; they ought to be under some measure like the Foods Act. 180. You think there is need for it ?—Yes, an absolute need for it. 181. With reference to that nurse you gave us the story of, was she a registered nurse ?—I do not know. 182. With regard to the man Elmslie, you say that he was on the New Zealand Register, but that he was taken off the Home Eegister ?—Yes; the secretary of the association wrote Home about the matter. 183. The Act of 1895 says,—" The name of any person who has obtained registration through fraud or misrepresentation, or whose qualification has been withdrawn or cancelled by the college or university of which he is a member, or by the General Medical Council of the United Kingdom, may be removed from the Eegister by the Supreme Court upon application made in that behalf by the President of the British Medical Association of New Zealand or his deputy." You see that we have given you power to take such a man off the register ? —I think the onus of prosecution in such cases ought to be placed upon the State. 184. You will not utilise this clause because of its unpleasantness?—l do not say that. 185. Is this clause not effective ?—lt is most effective. 186. Then why not use it?—lf the State prosecutes in other classes of fraud, why not in this? The public sympathy is against the doctor in such matters, and people are apt to say "the doctors are persecuting the poor man." 187. You have given us no evidence about preventives ?■—That is a subject I did not care to go into. 188. We are dealing with it in the Bill, and we want your opinion about it ?—I think it is very rife. 189. The use of preventives ?—Yes. 190. But is it useless, good, bad, or indifferent; what is your opinion?—l think it is most disgraceful. 191 You think it should be stopped ?— Most certainly. 192. The Chairman.] What do you suggest as a means for stopping the sale?— The question is such a large one that I am not prepared to give an answer offhand. 193. Mr. J. Allen.] Will you think about it and send us a suggestion ?—Yes. The public are mighty loose in their opinions about this matter, and the moral tone is low about the whole thing. 194. Can you tell us where you would draw the line between medical men prescribing and registered chemists prescribing ?—I think in any form of disease a chemist has no right to prescribe, but it would be very hard to debar him from selling simple and harmless remedies. No chemist should take the responsibility of treating any disease of any kind, because he is totally unfitted to do so, as he has not received any education on the_ treatment of disease. 195. Can you give us any generic term for cases in which a chemist should prescribe?—No chemist should prescribe, for the reasons I have already given, but every man who has a sore finger, or a scratch or a burn, should not be compelled to employ a medical man. 7—l. 14.

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196. Mr. T. Mackenzie.] With regard to preventives, do people practice prevention against having children merely because of laziness on their part in bearing children, or is it in consequence of the lowness of wages and the expense in maintaining their households ?—I think there are many factors to be considered in the matter. . . . 197. The cost of living?— Yes, that is one of the reasons. Then there is self-indulgence. Women cannot go out to dances and other social functions if they have to look after children. 198. There is a good deal that is wrong in the domestic life of the people ?—Yes. It is shocking to hear young married people saying they will not have children. 199. Do you find the use of preventives more rife amongst the wealthy class or the poorer class ?—I think it is much the same all round. 200 The birth-rate is much lower in Otago and Southland than it is m Wellington and Auckland ?— I am sorry to hear that your countrymen are losing the virility with which your race is usually accredited. It is a very serious matter for the future of the nation. One of the great causes is the vicious class of literature permitted to be openly sold in the country. I think, also, the practice of advertising petty social functions, which of recent years has become such a prominent feature in the daily press of the country, tends to unsettle women and home life. 201. Mr. J. Allen.] What do you think of this telegram: " Otago Pharmaceutical Association strongly oppose clause 3, Quackery Bill, which is framed solely in interests medical profession"? —I regret that any body of men should send such a telegram; it is misleading and untruthful._ I have already shown that the medical profession have not considered the question. If the chemists have a grievance they should come before this Committee and defend what they conceive to be an encroachment upon their rights, and not send telegrams of this sort. Should they come before you, you will have an ample opportunity of judging of their knowledge, or rather ignorance, of disease, and consequently their entire incapacity to prescribe suitable treatment. 202. Mr. Hornsby.] You attach great importance to the prevention of advertising these quack nostrums—the cure-alls ?—The whole thing depends upon advertising. 203. Now you see by clause 7 of this Bill, if it is passed, never afterwards can any of these cure-alls be advertised in the papers of the Dominion nor in any kind of literature that comes into the Dominion?— Yes, but I have already stated my objections to the Bill—these objections I think are fatal. Moreover, you propose in this Bill to give certificates to drug-proprietors who reside outside the Dominion who may use that certificate for most improper purposes, and of course you will be unable to exercise any control over them. You may cancel the certificate in New Zealand, but it may still be used abroad for fraudulent purposes or worse, and may consequently get the Dominion into serious disrepute. I have also shown what I believe to be a much better method of dealing with this traffic—viz., (a) labelling each parcel with the formula, giving its exact contents ; (b) providing State machinery to protect the public from fraudulent advertisements.

Wednesday, 4th September, 1907. James Bradley, examined. (No. 7.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you? —I am a metaphysician by practice. 2. How long have you been carrying on the practice of a metaphysician in this colony?—ln the colony about twelve years—nine years in Wellington. 3. Have you studied the subject of mental therapeutics?— Yes. Long before that it was a hobby of mine. 4. Will you give, shortly, your views on this subject as a curative agency f—ies. 1 would like to make a statement or two without going into any abstruse part of the subject, as it is not considered necessary for therapeutic purposes to do so. I think it only fair to my friends, Messrs. Shaw and Helps, as well as to myself, to ask permission to place our position before you, as I know that some phases of suggestive therapeutics likely to be presented here will be misleading, at least so far as we are concerned. Ido not desire to bother you with authorities. 1 came from Christchurch in 1898, nine years ago, where Messrs. Shaw, Helps, and myself studied the art of suggestion and practised it for therapeutic purposes. Finally, we each took a centre, Dunedin, Christchurch, and Wellington, in which places we are practising to-day. We attribute our success, first, to our knowledge of character, temperament, and the idiosyncrasies of the individual; second, to our knowledge of the requirements of the case; and third, to our ability in getting the idea or suggestion as a subconscious existence in the mind of the patient. We profess no mysterious gifts, but work and study along the lines of inductive reasoning. In addition to possessing a knowledge of the subject we do consider that a man, to be a success in our work, requires a natural fitness for the position. Self-reliance, tenacity of purpose, tact very large, infinite patience, and an ability to readily adapt himself to a new set of circumstances, are characteristics required in a successful metaphysician. Given these qualities, with a knowledge of his patients and their requirements, a metaphysician will not need to advertise, and his successful results will demand some better explanation than the everlasting chance or coincidence theory so often brought forward to account for our results. By a portion of the community we are regarded as persons possessing peculiar supernormal powers, simply because they have no material something to place as cause for the effect. Others regard our work as a faith-healing concern, &c. ; but I want to make it clear, and am continually emphasizing to my patients, that I neither practise nor profess anything but suggestion in my work. My average patient is not only faithless but hopeless, having usually run the round of the more commonly used methods for relief before they "try me," as they frequenth- put it. Neither do we hold the theory of magnetic emanation. The only factor capable of building up weakened conditions in the system or of dispersing aggregations, such as goitre,

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&o, is, we consider, the patient's own vitality. Our lever for moving or focussing that vitality is suggestion, and suggestion alone. When I say suggestion I do not mean necessarily a plain affirmation. A plain bold statement, trying to peisuade the patients that they are well in the face of evidence to the contrary, is not our art, and although many men think we do this, it is astray from our lines entirely. We use neither medicines, lotions, powders, nor surgical instruments in any shape or form, and ridicule the mischievous talk of our work being superior to or tending to replace the work of medical doctors and surgeons. We regard our work as being other than and an addition to that which doctors and surgeons practise, and consider they would no more think of taking it up than they would massage, because their time is too precious. We always work with the doctors, and never undertake any serious case without their opinion and diagnosis, and always send patients requiring examination to a qualified medical man. We welcome the advent of this Committee of inquiry, and trust that in addition to purifying the question of medicines and prescriptions, you will also give some attention to the purifying of this subject. We have for some time been endeavouring to arrive at a solution of the problem, but have now every confidence in leaving the subject in your hands, feeling that the matter will at last be placed on a proper and satisfactory basis. The position now is simply this: that the fortune-teller and clairvoyant advertise themselves as metaphysicians, and a disgusting medley is the result. Again, strangers bounce into existence through the columns of the papers, with sparks flying fiom every point of their being, and undertake to do anything but tell the truth. A man of my name came here three years ago in this way, and lam still blamed for some of his capers. If there is anything else I can state I shall be glad to answer through questions put by the Committee without taking up any more time. I have some cases here, which, if you wish to hear them, I shall be very pleased to cite. b. Yes, give us some of your cases? —The first case is that of a gentleman who came to me about six years ago—l am going far back, because it is stated that our cures are only temporary in their effects —with great pain in his head. He had then been attended by the best doctors he could consult for about four years previous without a cure being effected. He could only walk a few hundred yards at a time with safety. Excitement or ordinary physical effort caused acute pain and collapse. After seven weeks' treatment by me he had no pain, could take ordinary exercise, and gradually resumed his place in his former business. When last I heard of him (six months ago) he was continuing all right. Case No. 2: It is commonly said that our cures are only temporary at best. That is certainly contrary to fact. Mrs. H., now of this town, was paralysed for seven years —a complete state of hemiplegia, the result of a trap accident which caused injury to the spine. She had had the best advice and help obtainable from the medical doctors without any result whatever. She was brought to Mr. Shaw in that state of utter helplessness. After about fourteen weeks' treatment she walked as well as any of us can, and has had no sign or return of it since, and that is quite ten years ago. Three years ago she gave birth to a daughter. Case No. 3: A young man with spinal weakness, aged twenty-four years, had been unable to get about without a specially made corset to support his back. That weak state had existed since boyhood. After four weeks' treatment by me he was able to leave off the corset, and has not required it since. That is five years ago. Case No. 4: A child about four years of age had had scarlatina, which left him with Bright's disease. The doctors had tapped him twice, but requiring it a third time the doctors advised the parents against it, as there was no possibility of the boy's recovery. However, the parents persisted, and he was tapped a third time. It was then that I was called in to see the boy. Every night I spent about an hour and a half with him till he was out of danger. After eight weeks' treatment the boy was on his feet, and practically well, though he was then parting with a little albumen. After a few occasional visits that was no longer found, since which time he has been in perfect health. That is five years ago. I might say that in this case I promised nothing, but said that as nothing was being done and the doctors held out no hope, I would do the best I could for him for a stated time—for a fortnight—and if things were going on all right in that time I would continue. 6. Hon. Mr. Fowlds.] Is he still living?— Yes, and quite well. 7. How long is that ago? —Five years ago. Case No. 5: Miss G., about twenty-seven years of age, had been ill ten months with Bright's disease, which was considered chronic. After treatment by me she was strong on her feet, has since been eating anything, and has no sign of her former trouble whatever. She was attended by me three years ago, and is now resident in this town. Case No. 6 : Mr. F. came to me four years and a half ago with sores all over his body and limbs. His case was called blood-poisoning by the many doctors who had treated him for three years without any good effect. He was very despondent and sceptical about any possible cure being effected, but came to see if I would undertake to cure him for £100, by an agreement of " No cure no pay." When I told him that I never did that sort of thing with any one he said that convinced him of my inability to cope with his case, and he left me abruptly. A week later he reappeared by some one's advice, and wanted a week's trial, which I refused. I told him I could do him no possible good in that time —that unless he was prepared to stay with me two months I would not start with him. He finally agreed, and in seven weeks his skin was quite clear, and, as he put it, he felt "fine," if it would only last. I heard of him about a year ago, and up to that time he had had no return of it. Case No. 7 : Captain M. came to me about eighteen months ago in an emaciated condition. He had, as usual, consulted several doctors, who unanimously agreed that the lining of his stomach was seriously affected. He came along to me more to please his wife and friends than with any hope of getting relief. I asked him to give me two weeks, and if there was no evident improvement in that time I would not continue treatment. Before treatment he could take no solid food whatever, and even liquids caused him severe pain. Improvement soon showed itself, and by the end of a month he was eating ordinary food. Since that time he has been in perfect health. I rang him up this week, and he said he was as well as ever he had been. Case No. 8: Last December I was called to a patient suffering from hip-disease. She had been brought

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up from Greyinouth— without my knowledge—in the vague hope that I would be able to improve her condition. The girl had been an invalid for many years. So much bone had been removed from the hip and pelvis that I doubted whether any satisfactory result could possibly be expected. Her doctor had devised a special splint to take the weight of the limb from the shoulder, and considered some such contrivance would always be necessary. Up to the time I first saw her the hip had Veen continually discharging. I expressed my doubts to her sister, who said the girl would be very disappointed if I did not try. That decided me, and I said I would try the case if they were staying here a month. That was done, and a distinct improvement took place in that time. I continued attending her, and finally got her clear of splint and crutches. The discharge also gradually ceased, and has not reappeared. She wrote me only last week, which letter I can show you. I know she would say more than that to you if she met you. These, gentlemen, will, I hope, serve to show you to some extent what is being done, and if you would like more I shall be pleased to provide a cab for two members of this Committee and introduce you to more local cases that I prefer not to mention here, as 1 believe there is a danger of publicity being given to them, and I do not wish to drag the names of my patients before the public gaze any more than a doctor would. 8. The Chairman.'] It has been stated here in evidence that this is a class of treatment that a man requires to walk very carefully in; that cases have occurred where men have prosecuted this work who have found it difficult to reason logically concerning it?—l quite admit that. 9. Do you think that a person should practise anything in the nature of curative healing before passing some examination in physiology and anatomy?— No. I only regret that it is not possible to pass an examination for our work. 10. Would you suggest any other subject for examination? —Though I recognise what is otherwise necessary in the shape of knowledge of suggestion, I really do not know any one who could teach it as we understand it. I think if we had an examination it would have to be on the physical side. A knowledge of suggestion would have to be tested by results individually, but that would eliminate many who are now practising. 11. Hon. Mr. Fowlds.] That is the physical examination? —Yes. 12. The Chairman.] With a view of getting this method of treatment put on a reliable and safe footing, what do you suggest should be done—that is, with a view to preventing a number of so-called metaphysicians practising who are not competent to give this treatment which you have such a high opinion of? —The only thing I could suggest would be an examination in physiology. I know of no authorities here who would be able to examine and pass candidates on the knowledge of mind. 'Such a subject as mental science, as we know it, at the university is more for lawyers in reasoning analytically, &c, but does not apply to therapeutics. 13. Do you not think that a man practising as a magnetic healer should be tested in some way?—l do not hold with magnetic emanation. 14. We will say, mental therapeutics: do you not think he should be tested as to his ability as a mental physician or healer ?—I do not know what test could be put to him as to his knowledge of suggestion. If you take a pioneer like Mr. Shaw and another gentleman like Mr. P., who has studied the subject as a hobby for a number of years and is skilled in that direction, and appoint them as examiners, it will be a very good thing indeed if it can be arranged. 15. Would you be willing to subject evidence of your treatment to a medical man for approval? —Such evidence as I have brought here? 16. Yes?—l would be very willing to do that if you could get a sufficiently unbiassed medical man. I would prefer not to have a medical man because from my experience I find them prejudiced; and I do not wonder at it, because I do not think they have inquired at the real source. They have come to a conclusion more by listening to conversation than by personal inquiry. 17. Would you suggest an association being formed in connection with your practice?— Yes. We had been corresponding in this direction before the matter came up before this Committee. 18. What principles have you laid down in connection with the association ?--The principal rule would be that a metaphysician should be defined as one using suggestion for therapeutic purposes, and suggestion only. Under no circumstances would the use of powders or lotions be allowed either as a dummy or for any other reason. 19. What test would you apply to insure a man's knowledge and experienced—As an association we would elect a committee before which he would have to be examined. 20. Who would compose that committee? —The senior members of those already practising—say Mr. Shaw, president; Mr. Helps; and if they wished me to join them I would do so. 21. Can you say from your own knowledge whether doctors ever send patients to metaphysicians for treatment? —When I say "Yes" I do not know whether it will be necessary to mention names. 22. No?— Yes, I can say that safely, though they always do it personally and not professionally, because of the attitude of professional men, which I understand is collectively opposed to the subject. 23. What is the nature of the cases which you know have been sent by medical men?— Mental, functional, and nervous. 24. As to organic diseases, do you treat them? —Not unless some of those I have quoted are called " organic." 25. Do you not treat cases of consumption?— No. There are cases which have been considered consumption, but I never considered them consumption ; such cases are usually anaemia. 26. In what cases do you consider your treatment meets with the most success? —Nervous and functional undoubtedly. 27. Has the treatment been attended with injurious results at any time?— Not when in proper hands. If a case is of a sufficiently serious nature to be in any way risky none of us would think of undertaking it without a doctor, and if the doctor was one bitterly opposed to us we would throir up the case—we would not take the risk. In that we are emphatically careful.

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28. Would you approve of a doctor diagnosing a case before you treated it? —Yes. 29. Would you make it a oondition precedent that the patient should be seen by a doctor before giving your treatment?— Yes, barring minor cases. In a minor case of indigestion, for instance, or a pain or ache of minor importance, 1 would not advise the expense of a consultation; but if a case came to me and did not very quickly show a decided improvement I would at once suggest that they should consult a doctor. 30. Do you think it necessary that a correct diagnosis should be made before mental healing is resorted to?—ln many cases, yes. 31. Do you think a metaphysician is competent to diagnose?—ln a major case, no. 32. After a person has been hypnotized does that person lose his sense of free-will? —No. I would like to state here that we never hypnotise unless it is desired by the patient. Hypnosis simply enables an operator to make direct affirmations. It simply gets rid of the analytical antagonism of the intellect. That is where our work becomes an art, in knowing how to get past an intellectual antagonism to the deeper stratum of the mind without hypnosis. I would undertake to get the effect, no matter what the patient's intellectual attitude may be without resorting to hypnosis. 33. It has beeii stated that it is a dangerous power to place in the hands of any one, because when one person has been hypnotized by another he is always subject to control: what do you say to that?—No, it is not so, and I would refer you to Dr. Braid, Dr. Bramwell, and many others on their experiments in criminal suggestions. I could give you many quotations to the contrary, to show that the person who is individually good cannot be influenced to do evil in that state. He can negative in that state any suggestion which is repulsive to his nature. 34. Once a person is hypnotized the hypnotist does not afterwards have a controlling influence over the person whether in his presence or not?—No, he does not. In cases, mostly of hysteria, persons get ideas, but there is no actual power. 35. Is it a power that can be used for evil purposes ?—Not unless the hypnotist gets hold of evil persons. 36. Are you a believer in spiritualism?— No. 37. You do not combine spiritual or psychic force with mental therapeutics?—No, not at all. 38. What are the charges made by those engaged in mental therapeutics?— Some charge £1 Is. per week, and others £2 25., and we count a week as so many treatments. After we find a person is progressing we treat that person less frequently, and charge for the number of times we attend them. 39. In connection with dental operations, drawing teeth and so on, do you believe hypnotic treatment would be a good substitute for anaesthetics like chloroform, ether, and so on ?—No. In some cases it might be used, but it would take their place. Personally, I never undertake anything like that. 40. You arc aware that a number of deaths occur under chloroform?— Yes. 41. Could not hypnotic treatment take the place of that ?—Not commonly, but where a person is susceptible to hypnosis it would be much more desirable. 42. Is it used in connection with dental operations, do you know?—l have frequently heard that it has been used here in New Zealand. 43. As regards its use in cases of insanity, what is your opinion?—lt can be treated successfully. 44. Do you know of cases?— Yes, I may say I have had many cases. When I say " insane " I mean one suffering from melancholia or cases which may come under the heading of hysteria, but the mind is so deranged as to frequently require an attendant. 45. Do you think that metaphysicians, if recognised by law, should be allowed to visit our mental institutions and hospitals?—l believe we could do much good, but we could do a great deal more good if we were countenanced by and had the co-operation of, the doctors. As it is, we are limited on that account. 46. Mr. T. Mackenzie.'] How do you proceed with your system of suggestion : do you suggest to the patient that he is not ill? —Not in the shape of direct affirmation in that way. If you like to take any case cited I can tell how I proceeded with it. 47. Take No. 1 case you quoted? —By the history of the case I knew that tension and irritation of the nerves of the brain existed. My efforts were directed to soothing the part, dispersing the tension, and strengthening the weakened nerves. I held his head in my hands in a manner which gave him the feeling of relief, gently stroking the head from forehead to spine, for the double effect of soothing and diverting his attention 48. From his illness? —Yes, and gave suggestions by association of ideas. The part affected in that way was relieved, and by reiterating it, it became, as it were, automatic, and in time he was free from his pain. Take case No. 6, case of blood-poisoning. The excretory organs were inactive and throwing poisons into the system. I would get his attention steadily at me, and when he was sufficiently passive I suggested a heat at the spine between the shoulders, for, as surely as I got the attention intensely there the nerve-force of his body would follow, and the heat would be felt. I would then direct the glow down the spine, and through to the various organs, adding a suggestion of stimulus, which was to continue automatically. Every organ involved was stimulated to a higher activity, and I reiterated that. 49. Bon. Mr. Foivlds.] Why do you object to the use of medicines or lotions as a help in your treatment ? Ido not object to the medicines or lotions if served out by a properly qualified man; but I would not use them, because I have no knowledge of medicine, and I recognise that if I wanted to use medicines I ought to have a knowledge of them. If I used coloured water, that would be a sign of depravity on my part, and would mislead my patients in their knowledge of my methods. 50. You do not think that for a certain class of mind a concrete in that way would enable you to get hold of it I —ln that case I would suggest that the patient should get the medicine from

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a doctor, in conjunction with what I was doing. Ido not care who gets the credit, so long as the patient gets better. 51. You have read this Bill? —Yes. , . 52. Do you think that any Board set up under the Bill would give permission to metaphysicians to operate? I do not think the members of the Board specified would give permission under the present circumstances, as the medical men—especially the senior members—are prejudiced, and 53. And your practice would be prohibited in all probability under the Bill?— Yes, I think it would, and I leave it with you to say, after making further inquiries of our results, whether there is sufficient ground to warrant you in encouraging the work we are engaged in. There is a patient of mine here to-day who desires to give evidence if you will hear him. 54 Mr. Hornsby.] You are aware that some doctors themselves in this colony practise mental healing—suggestion, I might say ?—ln the shape of direct affirmation I know of some who practise suggestion, but as an art I doubt whether they practise it in the same sense as we do. 55. Do you know Dr. , of Wanganui ?—Yes, by name I do. 56. Do you know that he practises hypnotic suggestion ?—Yes, I believe he does. 57. Did you ever hear that he read*a paper before the Medical Association affirming the value of it?—l did not know that. 58. How would 3'ou suggest that we could put into this Bill some provision whereby men like yourself, who are prepared to establish their bona fides, and who could convince any ordinary man that they were bona fide, could be provided for ?—The only way I can think of just now would be the qualifying in physical anatomy. 59. I mean with regard to this Board. You mentioned the name of a gentleman to-day_ in whom we have considerable faith. Supposing a man like that were put on the Board, do you think we could arrive at the position we desire ?—Yes. 60. Then if the Governor were advised unde/ this Bill to appoint a gentleman like that you would consider your position would be in no danger?—We should be fairly dealt with, yes. 61. The Chairman.] Have you received many testimonials and letters from persons you have treated ? I have frequent correspondence from them, but Ido not keep it. I do not believe in testimonials. 62. Have you had patients who have used crutches and thrown them away I —Yes. me lady I referred to from Greymouth was told by her doctor that she was foolish to part with her crutches so soon, as she might want them yet. 1 keep them for a time, but I generally get rid of them. I understand Mr. Hornsby to ask if I considered one man, such as the one mentioned, would be sufficient on the Board to deal with our case fairly. He would be if he were not outnumbered by 63. Would you like to see the Board composed of men outside the medical profession?— Yes; but with anything like even numbers with men such as the gentleman who has been referred to, I would be quite content. Richard John Labking examined. (No. 8.) 64. The Chairman.] Where do you reside?—At 16 Waripori Street, Wellington. 65. What is your occupation?— Clerk. 66. Have you been under mental healing or hypnotic treatment? —I have never been under hypnotic treatment. My grandfather on my mother's side, and my father both died of heartdisease, and I went to a doctor, who declared that my heart was out of order. I felt very ill, and found that three or four hours' work a day was quite sufficient to fag me out. The doctor gave me some medicine, but I got worse every day. I went to Mr. Bradley for a week, and am now in perfect health. I have been to Mr. Bradley on two other occasions. About last November 1 had been suffering for a month from severe catarrh. I went to a doctor, and could get no relief. 1 then went to Mr. Bradley, and he said, "Let it alone," and it was well in a few days. I was prepared to go for a week's treatment, but Mr. Bradley did not think it necessary. In the third case I was told by the doctor that I was suffering from lichen. This was of ten or twelve years' standing. I attended a doctor in Sydney, but the thing got no better. Later on, I went to a doctor here in Wellington, who told me that he very much doubted whether my leg was curable. After receiving his attention for some time without result, I determined to see what Mr. Bradley could do. After about a month or five weeks of his treatment the leg was considerably better, and has gone on improving ever since. Yesterday I saw the doctor who had been treating me before I went to Mr. Bradley, and when I showed him my leg he said, "It is very much better. What have you been doing to it?" At the rate at which it is now progressing it should be quite well in a few months. The irritation is nearly gone, and the thing is only half as prominent as it used 67. I take it your troubles have been creations of the mind and not physical weakness? —Not at all. That thing on my leg was a physical weakness. 68. How do you account for the cure?- I leave Mr. Bradley to account for that. All I know is that I went to him and that it got better. 69. He gave you no medicine? —No. I simply sat in the chair, and he made suggestions. After a month or so he told me that he -did not think it was necessary for me to go any more. I wanted to go again, but he insisted that he did not think it was necessary. 70. The Chairman (to Mr. Bradley).] It is the influence of the mind over the body? —And suggestion over both. You get the physical as well as the mental effect. You cannot get rid of a thing like that with one impulse, if" I may use such a term. The impulse has to be set up again and again until it becomes automatic, to build up the body requires time, and in a case like this you cannot build it up in a week.

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71. Mr. Hornsby (to Mr. Bradley).] Have you ever treated a case of chronic diarrhoea, Mr. Bradley ?—Yes, and treated it successfully. 72. Was it a case of long standing?— Yes. I think I could give you more than one. These are cases which I did not regard as of sufficient importance to quote to you. 73. I know of a sufferer who has been under the treatment of a doctor for a considerable time, although lam not asking the question on his account. He has become much emaciated. . I wanted to know whether you had treated such a case?— Yes. I know the causes vary in different cases. 74. The Chairman (to Mr. Bradley) ] Do you find among the patients that come to you many who have been to other doctors before ?—Yes, many of them. 75. And as a result of your treatment they have obtained benefit?— Yes. All those cases I have quoted to-day had been attended by more than two doctors. 76. Is there anything more you wish to state?— No. I have only to thank you for your patience in listening to me and leave the matter with entire confidence in your hands. William Pbect Rough examined. (No. 9.) 77. The Chairman.'] You reside in Wellington ?—Yes. 78. You carry on business as I —A metaphysician and masseur. 79. You have read this Bill?— Yes. 80. Do you approve of the measure?—ln some respects the measure is a very good one, but in others it is very drastic. 81. To what do you take exception in the Bill?—I take exception to the constitution of the Board. Many medical men do not recommend the massage treatment unless they are absolutely forced to do so. Sometimes when the patient desires massage the medical man in attendance says that he does not think it would do much good, and he speaks disparagingly of it. If you placed massage under the control of the medical men it would be rather hard on the people who have received relief from the masseurs. 82. Would you like to make a statement to the Committee as to the views you hold?— Yes. I have read and studied electro-biology by J. B. Dodds, Professor Grimes, Dr. H. G. Darling, Albert Moll, Dr. Bernheim of Paris, E. Gurney, Dr. Mill Bramwell on therapeutic suggestion, and many other writers on psychology. Dr. Britton, of America, in his book " Man and his Relations," a scientific work, mentions many instances of the power of personal magnetism as a curative agent, and he says (p. 238), " Though little understood, this natural mode of treating diseases is far more effectual than the means and methods perscribed by the scientific authorities in medicine. It is practised among heathen and savage races, often accompanied by mystical ceremonies, and conjurations, and incantations, all of which may be useless in themselves. In the common judgment of more enlightened nations they sustain no relation to the physical result—the restoration of the patient—except as their influence is exerted on the body. Many cures, thus wrought by the imposition of hands (by manipulations that equalise the electrical forces and thus harmonize the organic action) have led multitudes to suppose that the successful practitioner was endowed with superhuman powers. In all such cures the electro-magnetic operator should come into tangible relation and mental rapport with the patient. When the relation is fairly established with a wise reference to the fundamental law and the specific conditions of the parties, the most astonishing results are speedily produced. Violent pains are suddenly removed, acute inflammations rapidly subdued." Before entering on a course of practical experiment, I was led by reading, observation, and reflection to the conclusion that all forms of disease commence in the nervous system, by a disturbance or unequal distribution of vital electricty, and that the organic functional symptomatic effects all resulted from this derangement of the electro-motive power of the organization. Having satisfied myself on this point, it was but natural to conjecture that the specific effects of all remedial agents occur under the action of the electro-nervous forces, and agreeably to the laws of vital electricity. Dr. A. Mueller, of Victoria, writing in the Australian Medical Journal, March, 1889, on the the transferable vital force, magnetism, as shown in a case in which the victim of deadly snake-bite was cured by a fakir, says, " To the next question that suggests itself, whether there is at the disposal of these fakirs or any other human being a force or power capable of rousing the torpid nerve-cells into action, a decidedly affirmative answer may be given. So-called exact science has until very lately ignored the existence of this force, and I should not have ventured to mention it even in your columns if modern psychological research, both in Europe and America, had not at last enforced a tardy recognition of its existence, thus opening up a vast field of research hitherto not dreamt of in our materalistic philosophy. In paralysis not resulting from organic disease and structural change of the nerve-tissue, it is now, under the name of ' massage, , a recognised and effective remedial agent." Many medical men in this city know that massage is of value in stiff joints, and I have had cases recommended by surgeons, but a great number do not realise the true value of massage, and it would not be fair or right to restrict massage treatment to the prescription of medical men who do not know its true value. To give you an instance of this, a case that occurred in this city will show you how this might be: A lady residing at was attacked by muscular rheumatism, and was confined to her bed for two years. Her physician said she was incurable —that her disease was locomotor ataxia, and when she suggested massage treatment he did not e'hoourage the idea, but said it would not do any harm. A man in this town, a Mr. , gave treatment, and without the use of anything except massage restored the lady to perfect health, and she is doing her own housework, and is as well as ever she was before the attack. Metaphysics as practised by metaphysicians would be seriously curtailed and improperly understood by a training in the orthodox medical college. The old schools have built up their philosophy of disease on principles diametrically opposed to electro-biology, and are very loth to leave their fixed ideas and investigate outside that domain. Professor Joseph Rhodes Buchanan, M.D., experienced this conservatism, and was forced to unite with other liberal M.D.s, and form

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the eclectic school with the idea of establishing a liberal system of medical education, and breaking the unreformable intellectual despotism which held the great mass of the medical profession. Dr. Buchanan evolved and completed the science of sarcognomy, which has placed biology on an irrefutable scientific basis, and his publications, "Anthropology," and "The New Education," and " Therapeutic Sarcognomy," set forth, the philosophy and cure of disease in such a manner as may become clear and useful to the lay mind, and the "Therapeutic Sarcognomy" is a manual for habitual guidance of the practitioner in a matter so entirely foreign to the education and habits of society. For the guidance of students Dr. Buchanan has made maps of the head and body, showing the corresponding locations of the psychic process on the brain and body, and a careful study of this science will convince even the most sceptical that there is a great deal in it that will help even the lay mind to arrest or prevent disease in its incipient stages. Sarcognomy embraces not only the discovery of the sympathetic psychic effects, but the still more important principle that each vital function of the body and the soul or life-principle is expressed at the surface of the brain and of the body, and that for every function there is an external locality at which it may be reached and stimulated or tranquillised by nervauric methods, by electricity, or by heat, cold, or other applications. Thus, in giving mental treatment, the practitioner is able to give treatment with assurance, and by placing his hands on the patient is able to direct any particular function from the surface of the body or the brain. The London Daily News of the 20th April bears testimonyto the valuable work of the Psycho-Therapeutic Society. London has many sotial curiosities which reward an intelligent inquirer after novelty, and surely among these a body of people banded together for the relief and cure of disease, without a charge, the operators being (with one exception) persons not having recognised medical qualifications, but possessing a magnetic faculty which no medical training can give, is worthy of mention. Such an organization is the PsychoTherapeutic Society, whose rooms are at 3 Bayley Street, Bedford Square. The society is small, but growing. Founded only six years ago, in a small way, by a few benevolent enthusiasts, it is now cramped for space; the new patients from the Ist July, 1906, to the end of last month numbered 262, and the total of free treatments was 2,862, given by fourteen volunteer workers, ladies and gentlemen The society's account of itself is that it was established " for the study, investigation and practice of medical hypnotism, suggestive therapeutics, curative human radiations, and drugless healing," and that it is "the only philanthropic institution in the United Kingdom at which free treatment may be obtained along the above lines." No fee is required of any patient, except that for clairvoyant diagnosis a charge of ss. is made to patients who can afford it not otherwise Treatment is freely given without distinction of class, but well-to-do patients often from gratitude give a donation or join the society. All moneys received go to the general funds, and not to any individual. To the value of clairvoyant diagnosis by Mr. G. Spnggs, the president, strong testimony was lately borne by Dr. Abraham Wallace, of Harley Street. 83 According to that theory, where is hope situated ?—That is located right over the lung. 84 And do you consider that accounts for the hopefulness of the consumptive patient?— Yes You will never find a consumptive patient who is not hopeful even up to the last stage. .There is a reflex action from the lung to the brain. Its corresponding part would be where the organ of hope would be in the brain. , . 85. Where do you locate "courage" according to psycnology?—On the shoulders—fortitude 86 l Where do you locate vitality ?—Lower down directly on the shoulder-blade, and also at the back of the head*. All the vital forces are raised in the cerebellum 87 By having a knowledge of these forces, what is to be gained ?—You can more readily give suggestion If a patient were suffering from melancholia, you would put your hand near the top of the brain, and your other hand just over the lung. If you wanted to stimulate hope m the patient you would put your hands there, and would direct the attention of the mmd to those particular organs, and by getting these stimulated in excess of the melancholia, whatever the portion you stimulated in excess would be bound te rule, because melancholia is from the liver or lower part of the body. If it is from a chronically bad liver the man gets despondent. 88 What do you mean by " psychic force " ?—There are different names given to it. Psychic force is the connecting-link between mind and matter. Like electricity we cannot state its origin, but can see its effects; and it is a visible law like gravitation, by which humanity is governed or to which it is subject. I think it is Gurney and Bramwell who have stated that there is more than suggestion in psychology. In giving the suggestion you place your hands upon the patient and that force or energy—life itself, which flows through every individual—would flow out to the patient e^r^ d Mr Bra dlev's evidence to the effect that he did not believe in uniting mental treatment with spiritual treatment ?-Well, it is the same thing. Dr. Bramwell and Gurney-I think they are the latest authorities we have on the subject of mental therapeutics—have come to the conclusion that it is the higher self or spiritual self, or the subconscious mmd as it has been called which is the same force or thing. Dr. Bramwell and Albert Moll are mentioned m the British Medical Journal as the two best authorities on hypnotism and therapeutic suggestion. 90. You think that spiritual healing is the same thing as mental healing ?—Yes, some people call it spiritual healing and others mental healing. 91 Do you diagnose in your business by the aid of clairvoyancy ?—I have sometimes had cases diagnosed in that way, but not always; it* is not necessary. When you understand sarcognomy it is easy to diagnose cases. But I have known cases which have been sent by medical men in this city to clairvoyants for the purpose of diagnosing. I know of one case where two leading surgeons of this city were operating on a man for his kidneys. They reckoned he had stone m the kidney. They found when they opened him that the kidneys were all right, and that that was not the cause

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of the trouble, so they told him that as they could not locate the trouble he had better go to some one who could give him a clairvoyant diagnosis. 92. You know this of your own knowledge?— Yes. This man went to a clairvoyant in Sydney. He was recommended to go to a clairvoyant in this city, but had not much faith in it, so he thought he would go to Sydney for a change, and would see some of the doctors there. He went to a clairvoyant there, who told him that he had appendicitis. He came over to New Zealand, and told the doctors who had attended him first what the clairvoyant had said, and they operated upon him, and found exactly what the clairvoyant had told him. The appendix was very large, and the patient recovered from the operation. 9-' i. Do you know of many cases that have been diagnosed correctly by any clairvoyant in this city of your own knowledge?— Yes, I know of many cases that have been. 94. Well, will you tell us what the method or system is which is practised by clairvoyants in bringing about that state?— Just as the psychologist gets his patient into a passive condition, so the clairvoyant may get himself to become passive in order 10 get the impressions from the patient. 95. Does be become unconscious?— Sometimes, not always. 96. Is it a case of the clairvoyant reading his patient's mind?—lt is just feeling the whole condition that the patient feels. W. B. Gregory, M.D., F.R.C.S.E., Professor of Chemistry at Edinburgh University, in his letters on animal magnetism, says, " The clairvoyant seems to go to a place mentally, and will thus describe distant cities which he has not seen. Some clairvoyants can describe the wonders of their own body. When altogether ignorant of anatomy he sees in all their beauty and marvellous perfection the muscles, the vessels, bones, glands, brain, lungs, and other viscera, and describes the minutest ramifications of nerves and vessels with accuracy surpassing that of the most experienced anatomist. He will trace any vessel or nerve in its most complex distribution. The whole to him is transparent, bathed, in light, and full of life and motion." 97. I understand you to say that lie really sees the organs?— Yes. Zollner, in his "Transcendental Physics," gives an instance of where he expei'iment-ed with a spectrum, and the clairvoyant was able to see where the visual eye could not see. 98. Do 1 understand that the clairvoyants are influenced by spirits or outside forces?— Some say they are, and some say they are not. Some declare that they are entirely influenced, while others declare that they act normally, which to my mind is a fact. 99. What is the difference between psychometry and clairvoyancy?—ln the case of psyehometry the man is in a normal condition, and feels the sensations purely. Buchanan writes very fully on it in his work on anthropology. Buchanan was the discoverer of psychometry. He put 't into a scientific form by testing many thousands of people. Psyohometry is purely sensing mentally. 100. In what way?—-Being a doctor himself, he was able to diagnose a case and then get others to diagnose the case who had not the medical knowledge, and they were able to locate the disease or trouble. 101. I suppose you are aware that there are a number of individuals who call themselves clairvoyants, and are nothing but frauds?— Certainly, many do not know the difference between clairvoyancy and psychometry. 102. Is clairvoyancy suddenly developed, or does it take a long time to acquire?— Many people have the power, but psychometry takes time to develop. Pyschometry is something like this: You go into a room, and find that probably there is a person there you never saw before, and yet you have a natural antipathy towards that person. It is not because of any previous knowledge of him; but if you take note of such cases where you feel a sort of antipathy towards a person, you never will become friendly with him, Psychometry is a form of sensing conditions and things. 10.'5. Suppose a clairvoyant is in a tramway-car, can he feel any influence there?—l know a man in this town who is able to tell people where they have pain, and he is not an educated man by any means. In fact, lie is rather an illiterate man, and could not tell £liem the cause of the pain, although he could locate it. 104. Do you know of clairvoyants who have been engaged tracing criminals?— Yes, by psychometry. In France the State uses psychometry for tracing criminals. Before you can psyehometerise any article you must have something to do it by. If a criminal leaves a tool or anything behind him, a psychometerist would be able to trace him by it. 105. Can you give us an instance where a person has been guilty of an ofience, and lias been traced by that means? —Yes, there is a case which occurred in Dunedin at a certain institution, where a number of anonymous letters had been written and sent, with the result that it nearly broke up the institution. A lot of the mothers threatened to take their daughters away, and the authorities could not find out who wrote the letters. There were two psychometrists engaged in this case, who got the same results, and these results were written down and handed to the principal of the institution, who was able to trace the girl who had written the letters. There was a complete description given of the girl by these psychometrists; but if they had not got the letters it would have been impossible to trace her. The letters were sealed up, with just an opening in the envelope made for a psychometrist to put his finger upon the letter. He never read any of the letters, but just had them placed in his hand in both cases. 106. Can a psychometrist read a letter without opening it?— Yes; that has been illustrated by the Psychic Research Society in England, and you will find an account of it if you like to look up the Journals. Thej- have, of course, met fraud in their investigations, but they were able to get sufficient evidence to put the matter beyond doubt. 107. You object to the medical profession being allowed to have full and absolute control in connection with the investigation and curing of disease? —Yes, certainly, because many of them will not recognise this science, which takes time to understand. It is easier to write out a prescription. Tf a man took the trouble to go through a college and learn the ordinary method of treatment, it would be much easier to write out a prescription for treatment than to stop and give B—l. 14.

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mental treatment, which takes time; and, in some oases, the patient could not be cured by drugs, and should be treated by suggestion as practised by metaphysicians. 108. Do you think that a man who practises metaphysics and mental treatment should have some knowledge of anatomy?—He should try and learn as much as he can, certainly, so as to have as great a knowledge as possible of what he is doing; but with sarcognomy a great deal of the subject of anatomy and physiology is not necessary, because metaphysicians do not treat broken arms and legs, nor cases where there is complete blood-poisoning or cancer, although a number have treated cancer successful^. 109. To treat diseases of the nervous system, should they not have some knowledge of the nervous system? —Yes. 110. Where is it obtained from?— From study. 111. Do you not think that a man should be tested as to his knowledge of the nervous system, so as to prevent people who know nothing about physiology or the functions of the body giving the treatment?— Unfortunately, there is no such school to go io on the lines of biology, where they could get the necessary instruction. You have to fight your way yourself to be successful. 112. I understand you to say that it is a science that is coming to the front?— Yes, it must come to the front. I will quote you a case I diagnosed myself. The case is that of a girl about twenty-two years of age. Her case had been diagnosed previously by a doctor, who said that nothing could be done for her. " She had consumption," he said, " she was fit for an insane asylum." I was asked to go and see the girl. I asked particulars about the case, and took the girl's hands in mine. She was wandering, and could not keep collected- She had lost complete control of the nervous system. She was so emaciated that she only weighed 5 stone 7 lb. I took the girl's hands in mine, and told her to look at my eyes and concentrate her attention on me, because she was wavering about. I told her to breathe hard, and she took in a deep breath and repeated that three or four times. I asked her aunt, who had brought the case to me, to see if she had consumption, to note her breathing. That was simply a case of anaemia and neivous prostration. The girl had been working in an office; but had been away two months, and her aunt said she was getting worse. By simply putting my hands on her head and recommending her aunt to give her massage, she put on 151b. in three weeks, and in another three weeks 141b. 113. She is all right now?— Yes, working in an office. 114. Where does she live? —In Wellington. I can give her name to the Chairman of this Committee, as I do not wish to mention any names publicly. 115. Have you cured many patients who have come to you?— Yes. I had another case in which a man in this town wrote me a letter thanking me for what I had done for his daughter. 116. Have you got that letter? —Yes. He said that four or five doctors had said that they could do nothing further for her. This girl had been sent to Mount View Asylum, but they had to take her away from there because they were afraid she was getting worse on account of her sulking. It was' a very bad case. The mother brought her to me before she went to Mount View, and I told her that the girl could be cured. Twelve months after I first saw her she came to me for treatment, and I completely cured her. 117. Will you read the letter without giving the name of the writer? —Yes. "Wellington, 20th August, 1907.—Deab Me. Rough,—Mrs. D.~ and I feel that it is only right that we should convey to you our appreciation and gratitude for the great service rendered to us by your successful treatment "of our daughter. The facts shortly are: In October, 1903, our daughter (then a girl of thirteen) was attacked by a severe illness, the aftermath of which was so serious that for over three years tier condition caused us the gravest possible anxiety. During that period she was treated by different medical men, but with so little success that in December, 1906, her condition was worse than ever. In that month still another doctor assured us that nothing whatever could be done on her behalf. At this stage you kindly undertook the case. After a course of treatment extending over a time of about four weeks she took a decided turn for the better, and there has been a steady improvement in her health ever since. There is now every indication that her complete recovery is within measurable distance. —Again assuring you of our deep sense of gratitude in this connection, I am yours sincerely, G.H.D." 118. Is the writer well known in Wellington?— Yes, known all over Wellington, and abroad too. . 119. Was that testimonial unsolicited?— Yes. A friend of his drew his attention to this Bill and he wrote me this, saying it would be a shame if the Bill were passed. I got nothing for treating that case at all. The people had been put to very much expense and trouble extending over a number of years, and I made no charge. 120. Mr. T. Mackenzie.'] How long have you been in Wellington? —About three years. 12]! Did you come across a man named "Leonard, who had the power of clairvoyancy ?—No, 1 do not remember him. There is another case I would like to mention—that of a boy three years of ao-e He was brought up to me from Dunedin by his mother, as the doctor attending him there could do nothing for him. The letter is as follows: " Dunedin, 25th August, 1907.—Mr. William Rough 53 Abel Smith Street, Wellington.—Deak Sik,—Hearing unpleasant rumours that a Bill was being introduced before the House whereby none but duly qualified medical practitioners could lawfully undertake the treatment of disease or other ills of the flesh, I take upon myself to offer you this testimonial to the successful treatmsnt of my son Lionel, aged now three years. In January last my boy exhibited most peculiar and startling symptoms which we could not understand ' In the midst of his play he would suddenly commence to stagger, and sometimes fall down, invariably crying out piteously that the sky (if outside) or the roof (if inside) was falling on him. He eventually would be pacified, and would then fall into a heavy slumber. I called in our doctor, who has been attending the family regularly for four years, and who thoroughly understands the little one having confined my wife at -his birth. He did not mention what he thought of the • trouble but gave a prescription, which did no good. The child became worse. The doctor doubled

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the dose and still uo good results eventuated. Now, 1 had heard of you from other sources, and determined to send my sou to you in the oare of his mother. I told the doctor, and he raised no apparent objection. You commenced your treatment early in April, and in about seven weeks' lime my boy returnd with his mother completely cured. This cure also appears to be permanent, as he has since had no recurrence of these fits, and both my wife and myself will ever be deeply grateful for your kind attention to and successful treatment of the case. You have my permission to make use of this testimonial should occasion arise, and I sincerely trust that the clauses of the Bill, if passed through, will be so modified as not to interfere with you or your profession.— Wishing you a long and prosperous career, Yours very sincerely, E.P.C." 122. Have you read that work recently issued by the medical adviser of the xate Pope—l forget the name—on hypnotism and its uses?— Dr. Napoli. 123. Do you know what he says about the curative power of hypnotism? —Yes, he goes so far as to say that it is not known how far hypnotism will go, as it has such a wide range. 124. Does he strongly advocate mental healing?— Yes. 125. Does he believe it should be in the hands I —Of the clergy and the people. 126. Xot confined to medical men?— That it should not be confined to medical men alone, but should be cultivated by the people.

Wednesday, 11th September, 1907 John Ande.sson Gilruth examined. (No. 10.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Chief Veterinary Surgeon under the Government?-—Yes. 2. Have you read the provisions of the Quackery Prevention Bill?— Yes, I read the Bill this morning. I did not have a copy of it before. 3. Do you think the Bill on the lines indicated is a desirable one for this colony to pass?— 1 do, certainly. 4. What leads you to that conclusion? —Well, simply because a great many of so-called patent medicines are sold in this colony without care being taken to see that they are satisfactory from the medical or official point of view, and 1 think it is highly 'lesirable that some regulation should be made with respect to their sale. It is possible, for example, for medicines to be made up with drugs in them which may be adulterated. At the present time there is nothing to show that prescriptions which may have been good originally are still made up from drugs in a pure condition. 5. Have j _ ou any knowledge concerning the making-up of patent medicines? —Some, but not specially those sold in the colony. 6. Can you give the Committee any information on the subject of patent medicines, as to their value and as to their secret and original preparation? —I ihink some "patent" medicines are of value. For example, ohlorodyne is of value as being an anodyne, and so with patent medicines having a purgative effect; but a patent medicine that pretends to cure everything is, of course, ridiculous. 7. Can you say whether any of those patent medicines which contain drugs are of a harmful nature when not prescribed in proper doses? —Yes, I believe they are; but not from my own analysis. At the same time, even medicine made up from a proper prescription can be harmful if taken in an overdose. h. You have visited France and different parts of the Continent, I understand: can you give the Committee any information as to the precautions taken in regard to the vending of patent medicines I —They are under control, but as to the exact nature of the control I cannot tell you from memory. The} r are under much more control than they are in Great Britain. 9. Do you know if it is necessary there to put the formula on the bottle?—ln some cases it is. 10. Do you think that is desirable? —I think so. 11. Do you think there is anything valid in the statement made by patent-medicine vendors that it is not fair to ask them to put their formulae on their preparations ?—Well, it is difficult to give an opinion as to that. The formula may be put on the label, and yet not give the ingredients exactly as made up. In other cases the formulas are more or less valuable. 12. Are you aware that some of the best medicine-vendors in the world put their formulae on the bottles? —I am, but they are hardly termed "patent" medicines —they are proprietary medicines, of which the formula? are already well known. 13. Fellowes's Syrup, for instance, is a standard medicine?— Yes. 14. Have you taken any interest in the subject of mental therapeutics?—l have taken a great deal of interest in it, but not from the standard of its routine practice. 15. Can you say anything of it as a curative agency?—l cannot >ay from my own actual knowledge. IG. Can you say if it holds a prominent place in the countries you have visited on the Continent? —It has in France. There are two schools there —the Nancy School and the Salpetriere School. 17. Can you give us any information as to what is done in the matter of training in those schools?—l could not say from my own knowledge, but I could look up the particulars T have, and which can be found in many books on the subject. 18. Do you think a person who has hypnotic power should be subject to some kind of control? —Certainly. 19. Why?— Because if a person is capable of producing hypnosis it is possible he may make suggestions to persons under hypnosis which may be entirely immoral. Therefore it seems unwise to permit any person having that power, natural or acquired, to exercise it without some knowledge and guarantee as to his moral and general intellectual standing.

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20. Is is not a fact that, with regard to persons whose moral faculties are opposed to the carrying-out of such suggestions, the person exercising control over him will have no effect I —That is so; but a person who is willing to come under the intiueuce of hypnotic suggestion may afterwards be readily influenced and in such a way as may render the results dangerous, and I understand that a person who has once been in the hypnotic state is easily placed under control again. 21. It is a case of once under control always under control? —That is the view. When a person is capable of being put under control it seems to me to be a dangeious thing. 22. Whether he is brought into contact or not J —No, when he is brought into contact. 23. You are aware that this is a treatment which is recognised by well-known medical men? —Yes. 24. And is practised by them? —Yes. 25. What would you suggest with a view to protecting the public against frauds who may be practising mental therapeutics ? —Well, the best plan is to have some form of examination and registration, the same as in any other profession, art, or science. 26. Do you think it is desirable to have a Board appointed under this Bill, with power to grant licenses to those who are members of an association formed to further the objects of mental therapeutics or mental healing?— One would require to know the lines on which the association were run before answering that question, because they might allow a person to become a member without any knowledge as to his mental or moral character. 27. What kind of examination would you insist on?— 1 have not given sufficient study to the subject to say, but I think they should have a knowledge of 28. Physiology and anatomy? —Decidedly. 29. That is, besides the subjects proposed by the Board of Examiners, you think they should pass in those two subjects I —Yes, and in ethics as well. 30. Do you think the examination should be set by a member of their own body or by a medical man who was on, say, a hospital staff? —I think possibly a combination would be better. ?.\. What objections have you to this Bill?— Speaking for my profession, it seems to me, after reading the Bill—l have not had time to carefully consider it —it would be impossible for myself, for example, to give a prescription. There is no provision made for giving prescriptions for animals. The Bill says, " ' Unregistered practitioner ' means any person other than a duly qualified registered medical practitioner, registered chemist, or registered herbalist who sells or offers for sale, or has in ids possession any preparation or instrument, or who prescribes for any complaint or disease." You immediately shut me up in my laboratory, and render me powerless to treat diseased animals. The Bill does not say "disease in man or in animals": it simply says " disease." 32. You suggest that the Bill should simply be confined to the treatment of diseases in man? — Yes, if possible; but when you do that you immediately do away with a great deal of the protection you intend to give, because a person may give a prescription—especially in this country, where there are forty or fifty veterinary surgeons without any qualifications—and say it is for an animal, though really intended for a human being. It seems to me rather difficult to prevent anything like that. 33. Do you think it should include a registered veterinary surgeon?—l think they should be included. But is it the intention of the Committee to include animals as well? There are no registered veterinary surgeons in the country. There is no Register. 34. Mr. J. Allen.] Would this Bill in any way control hypnotic suggestion?—l do not think it will. 35. It would need further provisions?—l think so. 36. Now, with regard to the examination of these menial-therapeutics men? —I think that ought to be in the hands of medical men chiefry. 37. Should not men proposing to practise hypnotism enter of necessity into a course of examination similar to what medical men are compelled to do? —Yes. 38. The Chairnuin.] You say it is desirable that the examination should be in the hands of medical men : Do you not think that in. the constitution of this Board there should be a biologist on it ?—ln the same way as there is a biologist who trains a medical man during the medical curriculum, and examines him in the course of his examinations. During his first year he studies biology, and a competent man examities him. 39. In connection with mental therapeutics, the question of mental influence and control and instinct comes into play : therefore, would not a biologist, with his knowledge and special study of the question, be desirable as an examiner on the Board?— Yes. The general term " biologist " includes the study of a wide range of animals, whereas a medical man is supposed to have knowledge principally of the human being. Therefore, while desirable, Ido .not think it is necessary to have a biologist. 40. When you are dealing with an examination bearing upon the mind, influence, and mental control, it is a subject on which an examiner should have made special study and investigation?— Certainly. Of course, there are many things to be considered in connection with this question of hypnotism. One might say, for example, that a person should only be allowed to use this influence on the recommendation of a medical man. That is all right; but having used the influence once on a patient the hypnotist can use it in future as he pleases the moment that he comes into contact with the patient. Take the case of a man who has made a study of this power, and who. gets hold of a rich man or woman for whom a medical man thinks mental suggestion might be good. The rich man is treated under the supervision of the medical man, but at some future time the hypnotist may get this man under his influence again and ask him to sign a cheque for a sum of money, or something like that, which if not under the influence he would not do. One reads of cases in which people while hypnotised have been made to do bizarre things a day or a week after being subjected to hypnotism.

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41. Mr. Hornsby.] Can you give us a case? —Speaking from memory —I think it was Dr. Charcot, but am not certain—a man was told that on a certain date he should go into a certain room in a certain town, and meet a certain individual. The man went there, and imagined he met actually the individual in question, but did not really do so, yet no one could convince him that lie was wrong. I think there is another case on record where a man suggested to the person hypnotised that when the clock struck a certain hour lie should stand on a table and crow. He not only did so, but gave a plausible reason why lie did so. It seems to me that if registration is not gone carefully about, it is open to an undesirable person to make wrongful use of hypnotism. Very great care would have to be taken in the selection of the men, especially from a moral point of view. In the case of a medical man he has his reputation and diploma to lose. 42. Is there anything you take exception to in the Bill?— There is just the point about the veterinary surgeons, which presents a great difficulty. There are no registered veterinary surgeons in the coloiry. 43. Can you make a suggestion as to how we can bring veterinary surgeons under this Bill, so that we may make provision for men in your profession?—l do not see why one should not protect the animals as well. An animal may be worth several hundred pounds, and a man when paying for his drug has just as much right to know what he is getting, and that the medicine is not harmful, as when the drug is for a human being. I see no reason why a duly qualified veterinary surgeon should not be included in the Bill. That is the only way to make the whole thing satisfactory. 44. Do you think that would cover what you suggest?— Yes, that would cover the animal medicines and drugs as well. I think you would have to have the Chief Surgeon of the colony as well on the Board if are going to bring in the animal medicines. 45. The Chairman.] As regards animal medicines, would you suggest that there should be any regulations dealing with substances or mixtures that are'advertised or vended?— Yes, in the same way as for the human being. 46. You think there is a good deal of stuff on the market which is useless for curing animals? —Yes. You can buy some which are of use for certain diseases, but many of them are advertised as cure-alls. 47. What is your experience in connection with the mental control of animals? —I never had any. 48. Take a horse-trainer, for instance, is his influence not due to mind-control? —No, to special appliances and to patience. It may be a question of mind, but not due to occult influence. 49. You find that some men have strong control over animals while others have not?— That is due simply to will-power and patience. The man who gets angry or wdio loses patience will not get that control. Very often it is due to the appearance of the man, in just the same way as an order given by one man to another will be promptly executed, while in the case of an order by another person it will not be. 50. Is there not something more than simply appearance in that?— There may be, but one cannot be sure of it. Give me a man with an iron jaw, and instinctively lam not going to kick so much against him as I would in the case of another man with a weak'face. 51. Is it not due largely, after all, to mental influence over animals?—l have not had any evidence to that effect. You hear a lot about " fixing " a tiger with your eye, but I have never seen a bull fixed with the eye. 52. You cannot explain how it is that one man may have power or control over an animal and others not?— One cannot explain why it is that an animal will take to one man and not to another. For instance, I had a dog who would not take to parsons at all—he never did like them. Reasoning hastily, one might assume it was due to something connected with the mind, but it was really only a matter of clothes the man had on, for if he changed his clothes the dog expressed no further displeasure. John Vosper examined. (No. 11.) 53. The Chairman.] You are ?—Vicar of John son ville. r >i. You have taken an interest in the subject of mental therapeutics?— Yes. 55. Have you studied the subject for any length of time? —Yes. 56. Do you desire to make any statement to the Committee?— First of all, I would like to explain that I take exception to the word "hypnotism" to begin with. .Listening very carefully to the last speaker with regard to the subject of control, that some men may have control over their fellows is perfectly true; but there is little or none of the phenomena which is produced under hypnotism which cannot be produced in certain individuals known as somnambulists. That is to say, there are certain people who have never been put to sleep in their lives, but whose hands can be fastened together, or foot down to the carpet, or to other tilings These people give way to the control of another whether it is to a known hypnotist or not. Further, a strong man or a, strong woman coming into contact with a somnambulist would influence him in any direction desired if a somnabulist chose to go that way, without knowing anything about hypnotism.. With regard to the question of morals, it is impossible under hypnosis to get a good man or a good woman to do a wrong thing. If there is a natural tendency that way, it would, be possible to do so; but it must be understood that under the dentist's gas the danger is intensified. With regard to the constitution of the proposed Board under this Bill, I would like to say that there is absolutely no provision present for any examination of the psychic element. Ido not see how by any paper you are to judge, as it is an undoubted fact that, whatever the work in mental therapeutics may be, it is very closely allied to the personality of the operator. So true is that, that where one operator fails another succeeds in the same case. There is an interesting feature, from the standpoint of a clergyman, about the word "treatment," in clause sof the Bill. I am speaking now from

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the Christian standpoint. Unction in connection with the sick is very prevalent in both the Roman ;uid Eastern Churches, and with some of the Anglican clergy, and is in obedience to the command of the Scriptures. There you have hands laid on the person, and you have mental therapeutics. This Bill would stop any such thing as unction of the sick. I practise mental therapeutics, or psychic therapeutics, as it is called. 57. Will you explain what that means? —1 would like to explain first of all, that I never seek a patient—never ask for one. I charge no fees. By "mental therapeutics " 1 mean simply suggestion, which effects in the majority of cases the same results as hypnotic sleep. Indeed, any sleep which is the outcome of any induced sleep is hypnotic. The masseuse in her massage obtains sleep, and would find the patient answer any question when put under that condition ; and, of course, any right suggestion given then would materially benefit the patient treated. I have two letters here 1 would like the Chairman to look at, but only on this condition : that they are not published. 56. What do they deal with? —One letter is from a medical man in reference to a lady who had been under two medical men for two years. The medical man sent her to me, and the result was that after three months' treatment she was able to go the round trip to Sydney, although previously she had always been afraid to travel anywhere. The letter states, "1 have suggested to Mr. A. that he should see you about his wife. She is physically well, but for two years has suffered from fear in going out. 1 think she is an eminently suitable case for your methods, and I should be extremely obliged if you would give her a trial.'' That is only one medical man, but one or two other medical men have sent patients to me. 59. What was the result? —She was cured, and went the round trip to Sydney. 60. Cured by the treatment you gave her?— Yes. Another medical gentleman who used to laugh at mental therai-ieutics became interested, and asked to see a case or two. He had come from Australia, and went back to take charge of a small hospital. In a letter to me he said, "By the way, when at I had a case which well illustrates the value of suggestion. Mrs. A. had been ill for several months, and had been in the hospital for three weeks, suffering from persistent pain in the bladder. . . . and was generally in a very bad way, and very prostrate, so that she looked more like a person that was moribund than otherwise. At any rate, I took charge of the case the second day after arriving at , examined her very thoroughly, and came to the conclusion that it was a case for psycho-therapeutic measures. Accordingly I hypnotized her (on the strength of the knowledge I bad acquired from you) daily, and in less than a week the symptoms had all disappeared, and her general condition was so improved that people hardly knew her. She left the hospital a few days afterwards quite well." Those are two instances. 1 have had other cases. 61. Sent by medical men I—Yes. 62. What have been the results? —Satisfactory. Now, it has been said thai this matter should be placed in the hands of medical men. I was told by a Wellington doctor very recently that in Bavaria not even all medical men are allowed to practice this form of treatment. It is recognised as a special gift. It is said, of course, that none but medical men should practise it, and I agree that there should be some examination—some proof of qualification—but I do not know how you are going to get that. There should be some knowledge of anatomy and of the nervous system, but beyond all this, there is a psychic foree —call it what you will—and 1 do not know how you are going 'to examine that. A man properly registered and practising for profit has as much to lose as a medical man in the event of any misuse of his power. The medical profession in New Zealand is apparently adverse to (he practice of psychic therapeutics, although many of them are using it indirectly —I know one or two of them —with very good results, too. A medical man told me that the reason why other medical men did not practise hypnotic suggestion was through fear of ostracism by the profession. I have also been told by a medical man that it is not every medical man who could practise it. Ido not suppose that every law passed is intended to be rigidly enforced, otherwise, under this Bill, the prescribing of a basin of gruel for a cold would be an infringement of it, or if one of you gentlemen were suffering from a cold and were invited down to Bellamy's, it would be another infringement. Any advice given comes within the meaning of the Bill—it is so sweeping. On the other hand, 1 do not see how you are going to stop abuses without making the Act sweeping. I heard evidence about the three classes of drugs which are sold : but what may be said of the patent medicines may also be said of some of the drugs prescribed by the medical profession. It is a well-known fact that in our hospital, after operations and for cases like insomnia, the doctor lias to inject morphia in order to obtain sleep for his patient. It is also a well-known fact that at certain times a drop of water injected by means of a hypodermic syringe would have the same effect. (i-">. In your treatment, do you impress upon your patients the benefit of auto-suggestion? — Yes; in other words, cultivating a brightness and cheerfulness of disposition, and if there is any functional ailment it will speedily pass away. 64. Tn other words, you endeavour to negative the conditions of disease? —Just so. Disease on the whole is the outcome of functional derangement. 65. Which can be removed by ?—Suggestions; or, to put it in the way a medical man put if to me, the soul has absolute control over all functions and offices of the body, and is amenable to suggestion. I will give you a definition of hypnotism according to Dr. Bernheim: " The production of a psychical condition in which the 'faculty of receiving impressions by suggestion is greatly increased," and Dr. Lloyd Tuckey adds, ''and acted upon." 66. Do you regard yourself as a spiritual healer? —No. 67. Do you think there are other forces acting with the mind in mental healing?— No. 1 might say at once that T look upon the whole thing as purely the working of a natural law. ■ ' 68. What is that natural law?— Well, take Oliver Lodge's subliminal, or Meyers's subconscious Scholefield's unconscious, or Hudson's subjective mmd —it simply means that it is one of the

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triple parts of a man's body, soul, and spirit—the soul reacting upon the body; although it is difficult to say what it is, as a matter of fact. 69. Then you are simply a metaphysician?— Yes. 70. Do you believe.in magnetic healing?— For myself I never found it. I have heard people say they felt it. I would not say there is no such thing, but I have no knowledge of it. 71. Do you think an association should be formed of metaphysicians in New Zealand? —I think it very desirable. 72. In the constitution of the Board proposed by this Bill, do you think a biologist should be appointed to it; if so, why?- The biologist, of course, lias to do practically with what may Ix- termed the mechanical part of man—the body. He may know very little about psychology. 73. Whom can you suggest as one who has the necessary knowledge? —I can only mention one man in New Zealand. 74. Would you say that a professor of mental science in a university should be a member of the Board .'—He should know, of course, a great deal about psychology, but it is remarkable that it is not always the man with the most profound knowledge that is the best in this branch of study. 1 have helped medical men in their operations over a term of years in Australia, and have noticed several cases that have upset ideas. 75. You are aware that there are illiterate men practising mental therapeutics who are doing good work ?—Unquestionably there are, but 1 would not say that they are not doing bad work as well. A man should know something of anatomy, but he should also know something of psychology. 7fi. Do you think this is a subject that should be taken up by our universities? —Yes, because it is a, subject that does not stop at mere mental therapeutics. It is a subject that is going to touch every branch of education. If you were to take two men speaking on the same subject in the House or on the public platform, you will find that one is able to rivet the attention of his hearers while the other cannot; yet if the addresses of both are taken down faithfully, you will often find that the man you listened to with rapture gave you only the sound of words, while the other man's words are full of meaning and close reasoning. 77. Then you hold that our actions in life and our decisions are largely influenced by the mental control of others ?—Unquestionably-. 78. Unconsciously we are hypnotized by others?— Yes, if you like the word "hypnotized"; I should say " psychicalry influenced." 79. What do you mean by "psychic influence"? —As an illustration, let me give the difference between a capable and good salesman and an indifferent one. When a lady goes into a store and wants a certain thing, if it cannot be obtained the good salesman succeeds in selling her something she does not want, and there you have the mental effect. I might say, in conclusion, that the whole thing seems to me to be in its infancy. 80. You think that, the question of investigation of the causes and cures of disease should not be confined to medical men?—l-have not the slightest hesitation in saying this: that because a man is a medical man it is no guarantee that he will be a good mental therapeutist. 81. Or a healer? —Yes. The personality of a doctor has a lot to do with individual cases. •'-'2. You heard Mr. Gilruth's evidence, to the effect that it was a dangerous power to place in the hands of an irresponsible person, because when once a person is hypnotized by another he is always under that person's influence or control, and could be induced to do things that he would not do in his ordinary state, such, for instance, as signing a cheque?— That is contrary to my experience. I have read many of the best works on the subject, and say that such is not the case. What you have to differentiate between is this: that about 10 per cent, of mankind are known as somnabules, who are exceedingly suggestive : but those snme people could be got at just as well in ordinary life. We have on record in the papers cases where men go into a place and persuade others to hand their money over — e.g., the confidence trick. 8:1. A weak-minded person?— Yes. It does not require hypnotism for that; and as for the statement that when a person is hypnotized he is under control ever afterwards, I know positively that that is not so. 84. You speak from experience?— Yes. In the Dublin Journal of Medical Science, May, 1891; Sir P. Cruise (the well-known doctor) relates how he saw Dr. Bernheim endeavour to extract: a man's political opinions while in a state of profound hypnosis. The patient declined to tell him, and, folding his arms said, " C'est mon affaire." " What a remarkable contrast to the awkward confessions occasionally volunteered under the influence of chloroform or ether!" is Dr. Cruise's comment on the subject. May I add that the legal profession should study the possibilities of hypnotism, especially the way in which some men and women are led into and kept to a criminal life through the suggestion of others. John Eμ,wood Stanley Loan examined. (No. 12.) 85. The Chairman.] I believe you are connected with the Psychic Research Association of Wellington I —Debating society. 86. You have read this Bill? —Yes. 87. Do you approve of it in its entirety?—l do not. 88. Will you kindly give the Committee the reason why you do not approve of the Bill ? In doing so you can make your statement concisely, and put your views before the Committee? —In the first place I wish to mention that I have here a lot of instances of cures which have been effected by metaphysicians. The originals are here, but I also have typewritten copies of them. Would you rather that the originals were left with you? 89. You can leave the originals?—l do not wish the names to be made public, but you are at liberty to investigate any case. 90. These are cases which have been investigated by metaphysicians in this colony?-—Yes.

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91. And with good results?- —Yes. 92. Are there cases in which the medical men have failed to produce good results? —Some instances in which they have, and some in which they have not. What we desire to prove is that these gifts of healing are natural powers, and that the phenomena which we see around us are not matters of chance. We do not see any effect without a cause, and I think the Psychic Research Societies ought to be credited with attempting to prove that this cause is not supernatural, but natural. The Psychic Research Societies are of opinion that there is no such thing as the supernatural: Everything is natural, but the effects which people see and cannot give a cause for are apt to be put down as miracles. I would like to say that we are enclosing, for your consideration, what we consider irrefutable evidence, where certain members of your community derived benefit from the powers of suggestion and magnetic treatment performed by unrecognised metaphysicians, in some cases where medical treatment had failed, and it may appear to you that there is sometiling superstitious and mysterious in the practice, but allow us to attempt to disabuse your minds in the matter. In the first place let me assure you, on behalf of the society I have the honour to represent, that it is their remotest wish to severely criticize or attempt to discourage the meritorious endeavours of our physicians. They are a profession to be admired, but that appreciation does not warrant them holding the unique position the Bill would allot them, and I regret the situation demands in degree that we substantiate our position at the expense of their interests. We claim there are natural powers around us from which suffering humanity can be benefited not only in cases where operation and drugs are of no avail, but where patients if they but understood a little more of natural law could cure themselves. Each individual is endowed in degree with ability, and magnetism is as much a natural element as it is natural for the body to have organs. It is universally acknowledged that the character of a person can be sensed by the magnetic aura which enshrouds*the body, but, not being able to describe it, we had better term it " instinct "or " keen perception," but it is a psychic gift nevertheless, and one which, if cultivated, is capable of diagnosing illness as well as character. The judgment of character is governed by the law of attraction and repulsion. You all have puzzled over it, and must agree, there is a union between brethren however divided, a sympathy between the virtuous however separated, a heaven-born instinct by which the associates of the heart become acquainted, and kindred natures as it were by magic see in the face of a stranger the features of a friend, and, we say further, disease if the person is ill, because the aura emanating from the body must be affected. No two persons possess the same degree of ability, and no amount of academical curriculum can provide them with it. It can only minister to the development of the existing degree. It is impossible for a person who is not magnetic to give off magnetism. I have a case I would like to quote which has come under my notice in Wellington within the last three weeks. It is a case in which a child three months old received injuries to his head. A medical man was called in, and he treated it for inflammation of the bowels. Naturally, the child did not get any better, and another medical man was called in, and stated that the "child was suffering from injuries to his head, and he could do nothing 93. Mr. Hornsby.] How old was the child?— Three months. Its legs to-day are undeveloped. 'At first appearance you would think they were withered. 94 The Chairman?] Emaciated ?—Yes. A metaphysician attended this child voluntarily twelve months after, with the result that it can now use its legs, its head is straight, and its eyes are all right. Its legs, however, are not developed, but by the treatment of the metaphysician its legs can be benefited. In a case like that the medical men have no remedy, and we think that if' there is a natural power which can be brought to bear in the interests of humanity, it should be used How are medical men who have not the power going to give the treatment ? With regard to musical ability, we defy the finest musician to develop musical ability in a person who has no musical taste How often have great leaders risen from humble station overwhelming at every point men bom amongst every luxury that natural wealth could produce, but who were nevertheless debarred from enjoying the highest thought through inability to assimilate it! In statesmen, we remind you of the late Premier, your present Premier, and A. Lincoln; in writers, Shakspeare- in inventors, Edison; in benefactors, Dr. Barnado. Review any of their lives, can you attribute their success to exceptional advantages, academical training, or exceptional ability? To become a good metaphysician you do not require a., knowledge of surgery, or drugs, neither do you require to be versed in Latin to adequately describe a complaint or write a prescription. The medical world lias no more claim to the sole right of investigating metapnysics than it has to religion Research provides other ways of diagnosing disease besides the one we have just mentioned, and we ask you to consider the sensing, or taking on conditions through sensitiveness. This may occur through contact, or may be experienced at some distance. We know people who are so sensitive that they would rather walk than ride in a tram-car, because if any one in the carriage is suffering, they are bound to take on the conditions, and suffer in degree until one of them gets out Persons with this gift would be invaluable in diagnosing cases, as speculation would be reduced. This may be ridiculed, but it is as much a fact as that a marconigram is transmitted without wires : our senses do not register the vibrations, but the sensitive receiver does. How often do we come across people who have a presentiment that they are going to have a reverse in either their health or business affairs! Can this be accounted for? We say, Yes, there _is the effect, there must be a cause, and we investigate the conditions of the case, and are at once judged by the materialistic idea (which at present rules) to be cranks. Gentlemen, how many scientists in the past have been ridiculed because they saw more in this marvellous world than other men did and struggled on combating the most unmerited assaults until they proved to the world that their theories were correct, and when we could not combat fact we immortalised their names! Another method of diagnosis is by trance mediumship, which is the subject of much abuse. Tn February of this year a local doctor was attending a patient. After fourteen days' treatment for appendicitis a diagnosis was obtained fiom a local medium, who stated that the patient was in

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immediate need of an operation for tumorous growth on the intestines, or suppuration would set in and cause death. Another doctor was consulted, who operated next morning for the growth, whicii was found exactly as described, and the operators admitted that the patient was only just saved by the immediate operation. Such men as Sir Oliver Lodge, Sir Alfred R. Wallace, Dr. Hodgkins, Myers, Podmore, and others all acknowledge these powers existing in one form or another. In considering these powers we may appear to be getting beyond our material world, but we are not. Every person is to a great extent the creature of circumstances, and is influenced in many, cases unconsciously by outside forces which, in his delightful ignorance, he often takes credit for producing or creating; but science is gradually proving that man is nothing more than a vibrating receiver. If we, therefore, know of forces, and can prove them to exist, and yet our senses do not register them, does it not prove our limitations, and does it not warrant investigation 1 If the Bill is passed into law, you will be regarded as non-progressive and behind the times, and you will deprive hundreds of sufferers whose complaints do not come within the cures of the orthodox school of physicians of obtaining relief from other sources, either voluntary or professional, and we trust, as legislators, you will recognise our appeal for such cases which cannot be rejected if there is a power above to redress injury or a spirit on earth to administer justice. . 95. The Chairman.] What do 1 understand when you state that outside forces influence the body and our actions?— There is such a thing as energy. Now, energy is attracted. Even to the engine the energy is attracted. You cannot destroy it. It is a natural element just as much as any of our solids. 96. In other words, you say that a man is not master of his own actions?—l go so far as to say he is not. 97. You object to the constitution of the Board set up under this Bill?—I do, sir. 98. Why?— For the simple reason that the medical men have too much influence. I maintain that this ability of which I speak is not necessarily within the province of a medical man, but may be a gift in any individual. Another reason is that the medical orthodox schools have shown us up to the present that they have attempted to frustrate the aims of such societies as the Psychical Research Society. As an instance, let me quote from the book, " Twenty Years of Psychical Research": "In 1891 the British Medical Association appointed eleven of its members to act as a committee ' to investigate the nature of the phenomena of hypnotism, its value as a therapeutic agent, and the property of using it.' The following year the committee presented a unanimous report. The first sentence of the report runs thus : ' The committee, having completed such investigation of hypnotism as time permitted, have to report that they have satisfied themselves of the genuineness of the hypnotic state.' The report was referred back for further consideration In 1893 it was again presented, with the addition of an important appendix consisting of ' some documentary evidence on which the report was based.' Even then, at the annual meeting of the association, an amendment was moved and seconded, ' That the report should lie on the table.' Afterwards they were of opinion that, when used for therapeutic purposes, its employment should be applied to qualified medical men. If eleven years ago hypnotism was known, and magnetism was known, investigation of them ought not to have been discouraged by medical men. 99. You mean that medical men are conservative? —Yes. We had an instance this morning showing that medical men are afraid to own that they recognise these powers. I must admit that there is a great deal of controversy as to the terms; some metaphysicians hold that there is r,o such thing as magnetism, while others hold that there is both suggestion and magnetism. Now, if a person has the power of giving a suggestion whicii is going to be forcible, is going to be effective, then I contend personally that there must be some impelling force. I hold that that is magnetic force. It never would have the desired effect if there was no such conductor. Results prove that there is sometimes in the induction of hypnotic phenomena some agency at work which is neither ordinary nervous stimulation (monotonous or sudden) nor suggestion conveyed by any ordinary channel to the subject's mind. 100. The same applies to the effect of public speaking?— Quite so. 101. Do you think an association of metaphysicians should be formed? —I most certainly do. 102. Do you think an examination is necessary for mental healers, in physiology and anatomy, in to other qualifications? —We find that there are men who are totally ignorant and yet have this gift. I know a man who can hardly write his own name and yet he can sense a disease. I have known him go to a complete stranger and ask if he had pains in the stomach, and when he said he had this man has said, " I sensed it." The only thing I could suggest in all fairness would be that those who have been practising for a certain time should be allowed to form an association, and let those who are least competent gravitate out of it. We all know that ability must stand in the long-run, whether in the medical or any other profession. 103. With a view to suppressing men who are nothing but frauds, who advertise themselves as mental healers, and so on, what would you suggest?— That the association should deal vith such men. They are more able to say whether a man is capable or not than the medical fraternity. 104. How could you tell whether a man has the ability to act as a metaphysician ?—You would have to take all the conditions of the case. Possibly you would have to put his powers into practice. 105. With patients?— Yes. Supposing he was posing as a diagnosing medium, such men as Helps and Shaw would know beyond doubt whether he was worthy of the name. • 106. But Messrs. Helps and Shaw are not medical men?— Quite soj but if you know of cne man who is capable of diagnosing disease he could test the power of the other. 107. Should not a man have some knowledge of diseases before being placed in the. position of passing judgment upon a man's ability to diagnose?—l do not think there is anything required beyond the study of anatomy and physiology.

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108. Do you not think he should have some knowledge of the nature of diseases to be able to distinguish, say, diphtheria from scarlet fever?—He certainly ought to have that knowledge, but in obtaining that 1 do not say it would be necessary to go so far as the medical school requires. 109. You think that an examination in the general principles of physiology and anatomy would be desirable, and that then metaphysicians should take it upon themselves to treat disease? —I do. 110. Mr. Hornsby.~\ Supposing a man discovers for himself that he possesses this power to treat others for ailments without drugs, do you not think that in the interests of the public he should have to go under some regulating council or body that could control him in the event of his doing anything wrong I —Would not an association have that effect ? 111. You acknowledge that that is necessary?—An association, undoubtedly. 112. I mean that any man, no matter who he may be, who begins the practice of mental therapeutics, or whatever you like to call it, should be under some recognised controlling body?— Certainly, but I should not say beyond an association. 113. How do you say that association ought to be constituted? —It ought to be constituted of metaphysicians, in whatever nature or manner they have the gift. For instance, one man might be a magnetic healer only, whereas another might simply go along the lines of suggestion. They both produce beneficial effects, but in two different channels. Two different abilities being brought to bear, each would recognise that in degree both abilities would be advantageous, but both could not practise the same method as they would not each have the same power. 114. You mean, the same as we have specialists in the medical profession?— Exactly. 115. We all know that there are men who set themselves up to cure all manner of diseases, and they call themselves "mediums," "herbalists," and "mental healers." These men are for the most part charlatans?- —Quite so 116. We have them in every condition and walk of life?— Yes. 117. I want you to assist us in inserting a clause recognising metaphysicians: how are we to do it in face of this?—By recognising metaphysicians. 118. I want to see how we can control these men, and you say we can do it by means of an association. Do you think the association would proceed on the lines of those recognised institutions in France, for instance, which Mr. Gilruth spoke of, at Nancy and Salpetriere?—lf you recognise metaphysicians it would be to their interest to adopt the best possible methods. A large number o~f metaphysicians are educated men, who are desirous of understanding the phenomena we see around us. In every phase of life there must be a dual effect. There is the wrong and the right, and the fact of metaphysicians not having been recognised in the. past leads the illiterate world to look upon them as spurious, generally speaking. Now, if you are going to recognise them it will only prove to. the world that there cannot be spurious coin without the genuine article. It will proclaim to the world that metaphysics is a recognised fact, and people will become interested in it. The only suggestion I can make is that you let the genuine article be recognised. 119. The Chairman.'] You suggest that persons should be allowed to practise as metaphysicians who belong to an established and recognised association of members constituting that body ?—Yes; and I should also say that those who are admitted to the association ought to have had at least three years' experience, to show that they merit the confidence. 120. Mr. Jennings.'] Where would they gain that experience in New Zealand? —There are any amount to be found in New Zealand. If a person came from England with any particular powers that might be recognised, it could be left for the association to say whether he should be admitted. 121. Is there an association in England?—l know that they practise there. 122. The Chairman.] The association would have power to make rules for the admission of members ?—Yes. 123. I take it that you believe that in order to qualify to become members of the association, among other conditions which may be prescribed by the association, intending members should be required to pass an examination in the general principles of physiology and anatomy?— Yes. 124. Do you think that examination should be set by medical men?— Well, it all depends upon whether there are any other papers going to be set. 125. It should only apply to those two subjects?— Yes. 126. With a view to procuring bona fide medical examiners, do you think it would be desirable to have some one who holds a position in connection with one of the hospitals of the colony, because, as you know, there are men in every profession who are not to be trusted? —Yes, that is perfectly true. I think it would be advisable. 127. Then, on the production to this Board set up under the Act of a certificate signed by your association that the candidate had become qualified under your rules of examination, and also that he has passed an examination in physiology and anatomy set by a reputable medical practitioner, he should be allowed to practise? —Quite so. 128. Mr. Jennings.] Do you think you could get that position from a qualified medical practitioner 1 Is there not" a prejudice against you in the minds of the majority of the medical profession ?—Yes, that is why I ask whether there is any other paper going to be set. Medical men deal with the material matter, and there is a great deal of difference between the material and the 129. The Chairman.] Except the examination in physiology and anatomy, you think the examination as to a man's ability in, and knowledge of, mental therapeutics should be set by a member of your own association ?—Yes. In the duality of things there is the treating of the cause, which is preferable to treating effect. 130. Do you desire to add anything further to your evidence? —Yes, the following statement by Mr. John Watt :—

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1, John Watt, gas engineer, late of Dunedin, did, by suggestion, relieve and remove the following cases of acute suffering during the Exhibition, where I was in charge of the Christchurch Gas Company's Court: One evening a lady attendant in the Stall of the Mint, Messrs. Stokes and Co., had to go home early in the evening suffering from so severe a cold that it was impossible to hear her voice unless within a foot of her, and then with difficulty. I volunteered to cure her if she would do as directed ; which she willingly promised. I told her to retire to bed at 10.30 (at which time I should be free, and on the street going home, and free to send suggestion), and to remember that I told her that at 10.30 she would be cured of her cold, and that she would fall into a sound sleep, on awakening from which the cold would be entirely gone, and not the slightest trace would remain. She left about 7.30, promising to do as directed. Next morning about 9 o'clock she came up to me at the stall, and laughingly remarked, "What do you think of me now?" and in a voice as clear as a bell, explaining it as the most marvellous experience of her life. Shortly after she left a gentleman in charge of one of the wine courts came to me with a bottle of wine in his hand, which he had gone to give to the lady referred to, to be taken hot, as he had seen the lady the previous evening suffering from such a severe cold, and had promised to bring round the wine; but the lady was gone, and he expressed amazement at what he termed the most marvellous cure of the age. These facts were well known in the Exhibition, for the lady was far from keeping it a secret, and brought quite a number of her friends to be relieved and cured of toothache, earache, neuralgia, headache, &c. I have relieved and cured over thirty cases in the Exhibition alone, which fact was well Known, as it was a common joke in the Exhibition that every ache or pain could be removed at the Gas Company's stall free of charge by a little fellow with one eye, who had simply to look or speak, and all would vanish at the time or place he would mention; in fact, I could give an instance of one case that was cured by giving instructions through the telephone, the companion of a lady who had been cured of a severe attack of neuralgia, and whom I had never seen till she came to thank me for the wonderful miracle, as she termed it. Amongst the most striking cases of cure by suggestion and passes in my experience in the Exhibition alone were lady attendants at the stalls of Sargood, Son, and Ewen, Aulsebrook, Atlas Confectionery, Bohemian Glass Stall, Cherry Tea-rooms (quite a number), Maoris in charge of Cook Island Court, together with quite a cumber of young lads suffering from toothache. These cases were extreme cases of intense pain, even to tears. I have had several cases of deafness, where the persons referred to had been treated by several doctors without success, and in several instances the results of a few treatments were astonishing—one particularly, Mrs. Abbot, of Dundas Street, Dunedin, aged eighty-four, who for years had to use an ear horn or trumpet, but after a course of some eight treatments extending over some five weeks, of about half an hour's duration, she could hear the tick of a watch. Other cases could be named, but the power of suggestion is absolutely undeniable unless by those who have never had the time, opportunity, or inclination to study the subject, either as a hobby or a science. I might say that of all the cases I have had the pleasure of treating and curing I have never received one single penny, my sole motive being the pleasure of being able to remove pain and suffering from my fellow-men by a gift, power, or knowledge I seem to possess. I have nothing to gain materially by this testimony, but if there is any power, force, or influence that can benefit suffering humanity, it certainly ought to be encouraged, instead of being hampered for the sake of the favoured few. My name is sufficiently well known throughout the colony to know that what I commit to paper are undeniable facts, no matter how much we may agree to differ. J. Watt, Angus Avenue, Wellington. P. S., of Cuba Street, Wellington, suffered for years from ulcerated stomach, which doctors of Victoria or this colony failed to relieve or cure. He was unable to retain food, and was not expected to live, and was given up as incurable by a doctor of this city. Ten weeks of magnetic treatment by a resident of Wellington, Mrs. , cured him, and he has had no return of the disease for four and is now strong and healthy. S. M. was an inmate of the Wellington Hospital for nine months with paralysis and curvature of the spine, and was sent home as incurable. She was taken on a mattress, in an emaciated and dying condition, to a mental healer, and after three months' treatment she was strong and well.

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The Chairman (to Mr. Hornsby): I understand you have received a number of communications commending you for introducing the Bill 1 Mr. Hornsby: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to say that not only in this country, but from outside countries, including Australia, Canada, the United States, and Britain, I have received letters expressing appreciation of the efforts I have been making. Much valuable information has been given me, and the commendations, I would like to add, come from men, women, and institutions of the highest standing. It must be gratifying to us all to know that attention has been directed to the work we have in hand, and that we have the sympathy of all those who wish well to the people and who are concerned about the future of our race. The editor of the Chemist and Druggist of Australasia and his British colleague have expressed satisfaction with the effort made in the Bill, while the pharmacists of New Zealand, the herbalists and others have stated that, with proper safeguards, the Bill, or something like it, should become law. I realise the difficulties in the way of passing a measure such as this; but lam well "assured that the agitation that has gone on since legislation has been suggested has been productive of greatgood. The clergy, the medical profession, and societies whose aims are for the promotion of the moral health of the people have communicated with me and expressed the hope that some such legislation as I have sought to prepare may one day be placed on the statute-book of the Dominion. I can only add that I feel myself under a deep debt of gratitude to all the members of the Committee, but especially to our Chairman, Mr. Hanan, and I desire to thank him for the enthusiasm he has shown, the ability he has displayed, and the help he has been to me all through. His work has not only been for the help and benefit of this Committee, but for the people of the Dominion. There can be no doubt but we have aroused the public mind, and I hope we shall be able to create a healthy public opinion. The promotion of the Bill by me will, I believe, have far-reaching effects, and I desire to thank all the members of the Committee for their sympathetic assistance. Further, I would like to say how much we all appreciate what the Minister of Public Health (the Hon. George Fowlds) lias done in connection with the Bill, his courtesy, and the helpful, active sympathy in having a full report taken of the evidence. Mr. Hornsby then handed in the following letter for publication: — Office of the Chemist and Druggist of Australasia, Dear Sir, — Melbourne, 3rd September, 1907. Yours of the 23rd August to hand. I am much obliged to you for your courtesy in recommending that a copy of the printed evidence of the Select Committee on the Anti-Quackery Bill should be forwarded to me when issued. lam especially glad to get your statement that the Bill is not intended to affect the honest and clean man. I have pleasure in sending you a copy of our current issue. You will notice from page 249 that the Manufacturing Chemists and Proprietors' Association, representing the owners of proprietary medicines, have practically adopted the suggestion you have made, and have accepted the principle of the appointment of a Board to investigate and grant licenses to proprietary medicines to be advertised and sold. Yours truly, The EniTOB. J. T. M. Hornsby, Esq., General Assembly, Parliament House, Wellington, N.Z. The Chairman: The following is a copy of an analysis which some members have asked me to have made of Hearne's Frootoids, and which shows that it is not a wonderful discovery or contains anything new, as is alleged by the proprietors:—- -" Hearne's Frootoids. " The active ingredients in these pills are aloes and calomel, both of which are aperient medicines. "J. S. Maclaubin, D.Sc, F.C.S., " Government Analyst. "The pilule weighs 227 grains, of which calomel is igr. and aloes 1 gr. to lfgr."

Approximate Cont of Paper.— Preparation, not given ; printing 1,650) copies), £34 7s.

By Authority : John Mackay, Government Printer, Wellington.—l9o7 Price Is. 6d]

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