I.—7a.

8

[C. E. N. MACKIE.

31. You are sure about the food? —Yes; they had the quantity I mentioned. They were on half-rations. 32. Mr. Myers.] Do you know if the boys' health suffered? —Yes. 33. You are sure on that point? —Yes, the cold was very intense. 34. Have you any evidence to produce I —l have one of the boys here. 35. As secretary of the National Peace Society we may, I suppose, take it for granted that you are not in favour of this Act—that you would conceive it your duty to do everything possible to hold it up to ridicule? —We do everything possible to bring any illegalities to light. 36. You have already stated to the Minister that if he had approved of these regulations your case falls to the ground. It was on the supposition that these regulations were illegal, in your opinion? —Certainly, sir. Well, probably I ought to qualify that. I do not think under the Act that the officer in command has any right to punish a boy. The officer in command has no authority whatever to punish any boy under detention —that has to be done by the Court. It is specified distinctly in section 8, subsection (2), " shall be guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction before a Magistrate." The Officer Commanding Detention Barracks has no right whatever to punish any boy under his command. 37. You think that you as a citizen of New Zealand have a right to instruct any boy not to comply with the commands of a Commandant of the Forces or his officers? —No, certainly not; the officer has a perfect right to do as he likes. 38. What instructions would you give to a boy detained? —I do not know that I should advise him at all. We have never advised the boys either way. 39. Do you think that a boy who is detained should carry out orders received? —Entirely a matter for his own conscience. I should not presume to dictate. 40. You would not then advise him to do anything that would justify him being charged with insubordination? —I say it would be entirely a matter for his own conscience. We do not set out to advise boys in any way. 41. Hon. Mr. Duthie,.] What was the weight of these sacks of coal?— About ljcwt., more or less probably : the boys judged them to be that. 42. Were they asked to lift these singly or with the assistance of another? —I understand they were asked to lift them exactly as they liked. The boys can tell you better themselves under examination. I understand that they were simply asked to carry the coal up, and I believe that the officers told them they could carry it lump for lump if they liked. 43. You do not think there was any exceeding burden? —No, I do not think so. 44. Hon. Mr. Smith.] They refused to carry this coal because they considered it military duty?— Partly, and partly because they did not believe in doing work for nothing—that it was the duty of the wharf labourers. 45. There was no labour available there, was there?—l suppose it could have been got. 46. You say they complained of the intense cold : if they refused to carry coal to cook their own meat and to warm their own buildings, do you not think that was unreasonable) —No; there were no heating-arrangements. 47. Do you know what the ages of the petitioners are?— About sixteen or seventeen. I do not think there were any under sixteen. 48. Then they were Senior Cadets. Do you know whether they are Senior Cadets or Territorials? —These are Territorials. 49. You would hardly describe them as boys? —No; we speak of them collectively, of course, in the petition. 50. You say you have never advised them to refuse to carry out orders?— Yes, sir, that is what 1 said. 51. As a Peace Council you-do not want the Act amended —you are utterly opposed to it? —Yes. 52. And opposed to any amendment?—We have nothing to do with the amendment. 53. Hon. Mr. Anstey.] In regard to the second case, is it a fact that the Commandant inflicted a penalty of seven days' detention?— No. 54. I understood you to say that the Commandant inflicted that penalty?—No, Mr. Bailey. I think that on account of the regulation not having been gazetted he was exceeding his duty. 55. The Magistrate? —Yes; Mr. Bishop in a subsequent case decided that way. 56. You complain of the military officers exceeding their duty?— The Commandant only. 57. Then it is not the solitary confinement you say is illegal? —Any punishment. 58. Not the seven days extra? —That is perfectly legal. 59. Then it is the solitary confinement only? —Yes. 60. Mr. Veitch.] I understand, Mr. Mackie, that you are secretary of the Peace Society. You oppose the military Act on principle?— Yes, sir. 61. Now, presuming that the Act were amended providing for alternative non-military service for your members, what view would your society have of that? —I do not think I should be called upon to answer that. 62. I only thought that the question would help you?—l am not here to suggest amendments or to approve of them. 63. What would be your own attitude? —My own attitude—l should most certainly and decidedly oppose it; it is military duty under another form. 64. Hon. Mr. Callan.] Might I ask you, if this country were attacked to-morrow, would you not defend your home or family?—l am not here to answer that. 65. You refuse to answer that?—l do. 66. You would sit quietly and do nothing?— Well, I cannot say what I should do.