H. CARTER.

47

I.—9a.

cars, and received licenses from the City Council to drive cars. There is an instance of a man whom we considered qualified to drive a car who was refused a certificate or a license by the examiner of the company It would remove a man from the influences of a jealous or an incompetent officer It would give a standard examination for all candidates irrespective of their relations to any member of the City Council or any officer in the company It would raise the standing of the motorman, so that people would feel secure in having a Government inspection, and also in Having an independent man to examine them. 1 9 The training of the motorman at the time of the Kingslaud accident has been mentioned here in evidence were you pretty closely connected with that Kingsland accident? —I had charge of the motorman the night of the accident, and took him home, by direction of the managing director 20. What was his name?— Humphreys. 21 In your opinion, was the accident caused through inefficient training or through the motorman losing his head?—lnefficient training, admitted by the motorman. 22. Who was the man who examined the motorman, then? —Mr. Carey, the engineer 23. Did he understand the work himself? —No. 24. How do you account for that? —He was trained to be a driver after he came here. 25. What was the direct omission in training that man?—The principal one was that he was unable to work the emergency brake at the time of the accident. 26. What is that emergency brake? —The emergency is what we use to prevent a car running backward. It used to be designated the 'extreme emergency " We now call that the "third emergency.' 27 Does that prevent a car running backward?— Yes. 28. What was the emergency he tried to use?—He used the emergency that prevents a car from going forward. He described that to me on the car as I took him home. 29. So that you would be safe in saying that the Kingsland accident was due to inefficient training?— Yes. 30. Could you give us any idea of how many men trained in the service at the time of the Kingslaud accident were unaware of that third emergency, or of those who knew of it?— That would be a difficult question to answer, but it was generalty believed by Mr Carey that our fixed emergency which prevents a car from running forward would also prevent a car from running backward. 31 Would you say there were not twenty in the service at that time who knew the contrary? 1 will not give figures, but I say, very, very few 32 Do you know of any other case where men have been granted certificates that ought not to have been granted?— Licenses, yes. 33. Can you call anjr to nry mind?— Two men engaged in Sydney came here, and were put out driving without passing any examination. 34. Had they had previous driving-experience?— Neither of them. 35. Can you give the names?— Jackson and Comer. Those men came in December, 1902 There is another case of a man locally trained. 36. Can you trace those men—what about Comer? —Comer ran into a car at Ponsonby Road —-a rear collision—and was discharged. 37 What about Anderson?—Yes, he was a locally trained man The traffic manager himself told me that he should not be driving. 38. How long ago was it when Anderson was driving?—lt would be in the vicinity of two years. 39 It was in Mr Walklate's time? —Yes. Mr Lysaght was the traffic manager at that time. 40. What about Paget? — Paget was examined on my car b}' the then motor-inspector 41 How long ago would that be? —Six years, or nearly seven years ago. 42 Did Paget have a collision?—He ran into the back of another car without cutting his power off, and made a big smash. He was dismissed. 43. Coming down to recent times, do you know of any cases where a man in your union could have qualified and was prevented?— Yes, one quite recently. 44. What was that case? —That of a man named Houghton 45. Did you have to do with that man?— Yes. He had been trained by two other men, and failed in his examination. 46 Was his examination a fair one, in your opinion?— No. 47 How long ago was this?— Just about the time the last Brakes Commission sat—this year 48. He failed in his examination, which you say was not a fair one : in what way?—The animus of the motor-inspector prevented the man from passing. 49 What is the name of the motor-inspector?—Rockland. 50. Did he give him a proper test, in your opinion?—The examination was severe enough for an electrical engineer who also had a motorman's experience. Houghton failed, and is still an excellent conductor —a man of excellent character in every w&j 51 It has been suggested that in the case of a strike this clause would make a close corporation so far as the motormen are concerned do you think it would? —I do not see that the position would be altered —only this that the examination would provide for men who would be capable of driving a car and taking charge of the same.

52 A previous witness—the Town Clerk, Mr Wilson—said it would prevent, in the case of a strike, the drawing upon men who had been motormen and had left the service do you think you could draw on those men without any training with safety to the public?—The Sydney system is that, if a man is off for a month or over at any time, he shall receive instruction again by being placed on a car with a competent motorman for two days, who has to certify that the man is