I.—9a.

46

j> RIOHARbSON.

there would have been, probably, the same likelihood of the Bill being introduced. It was only the fact of our drivers in Auckland taking action that led to the troubles in Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin. That is what we found out at the Conference. But I think unquestionably in Auckland we are the worst off. We have cars running at times when their brakes require adjustment, and they are positively unsafe. 309 Do you think, if we had proper brakes there would be so much contention as there is at the present time? If the public realized their danger do you think they would travel so often? —No. 310. Do you think that accident which took place by the Art Gallery, where a car was coining down Wellesley Street, was due to the car taking control of the motorman through the defective brakes?— That is my opinion. It was due to defective brakes. 311 You are aware of this fact: that the Auckland Municipal Corporation have power to see that the number of cars is sufficient, and that the construction and fittings of the cars are kept in proper order, and subject to the approval of the Council under the deed of delegation?—l am very much surprised to hear it, Mr Glover 312 In the matter of the overcrowding of cars, do you think the efficiency of the motorman is impaired by the overcrowding of the cars? You remember that we have strap-hanging carried on to a certain extent?— Yes. 313. Do you think with this strap-hanging the conductor can carry out all the duties required of him, and that in the event of immediate danger there could be any possible quick communication between him and the motorman? —It would assist in the proper working of the traffic very materially, unquestionably, if we could do away with that danger 314. And it would be conducive to the safety of the travelling community?—lt would, unquestionably 315 Hon. Mr 11. McKenzie ] In the case of overcrowding, every car is braked with a certain margin of safety?— Yes. 316. Say a'car is braked to carry 100 passengers, and it lias 150 passengers, the car would bo on the margin of safety?—An excessive load would make it more or less unsafe. 317 But up to a certain point it would be safe? —Yes. 318. But if you went up to 75 per cent, over its proper number, would the car be safe then? Would the brake control it? —Not so wall. 319 Supposing you had 100 per cent, over do you think the brake would be safe? —It would have the same control, but not sufficient for the safety of the general public. 320. Supposing you were coming down College Hill, and there was 100 per cent, over what the car was braked for, do you think that brake would hold it?—No, not down College Hill. 321 You do not object to the limitation of overloading?— What I do object to is the settingup of a hard and fast rule that, say, if a conductor carries under his number lie is penalized by his employers, and if he carries over he is penalized by the municipality 322 Supposing you carried over 100 per cent, more than the car was braked for, could you brake the car?—l believe if the driver went into a level the car would skid and run away

Thursday, Bth September, 1910. Henry Carter examined. (No. 5 ) I Mr. Bosser \ Your occupation? —Motorman. 2. In the employ of—?—The Auckland Electric Tramway Company 3 How long have you been in their employ?— Seven years and ten months. 4. And previous tothat? —In the Sydney Tramways. 5 You do not at present hold any office in the union?—No, except being a member 6 Are you authorized to appear here on behalf of the union?— Yes, elected by a ballot of the union. 7 You say you previously had Sydney experience? —Yes. 8. What experience did you have there? —Two years' driving, one year and nine months' conducting and driving 9 Practically you have eleven years' total experience as a tramway man?— Yes. 10 Have you had any other experience with regard to tramway matters —such as special experience? —As a member of the special Conciliation Board, 1908. II Presided over by Dr McArthur ? —Yes. 12 You represented the union at that sitting?—Yes.^ 13. And sat during the taking of the whole of the evidence? —Yes. 14. What was your function —to inquire into the grievances that led to the strike?— Yes, the strike of 1908. ~,„,„.. 15 Have you had any other experience? —I represented the union on both Brake Commissions. 16. Have You had any experience in training students? —Yes, I have been training ever since I have been in'the service of the Auckland Tramway Company, and also in Sydney 17 Should I. be right in saying that you have put more men through as students than any one in the service? —Yes. 18. Will you take the Bill, and look at clause 2, and give us your opinion of it as concisely as possible? Yes. The reason I think the Government should pass or grant motormen's certificates is that the present method is unsatisfactory from the men's standpoint and also from the view of public safety There have been instances in our service where unqualified men have driven