[P BICHAKDSON.

42

I.—9a.

would make before the Supreme Court, That is, a man might accept the onus of the accident in ignorance of the previous condition of the car _ 201 In other words, you think his report as to the facts relating to the accident might be affected by what he might see as the result of his inspection of the car-book ?—I think it would be more in his protection. . .. 202 Do you not think that one is more likely to get an independent and reliable report it the person makes his report of the facts of the accident without first of all going back to the history of the car?—He is not more likely to give a reliable report. 203 Well, an independent report?—lt would unquestionably be an independent report. 204 I suppose a man who has an accident has no difficulty in getting leave to look back to the history of the car after lie has made his report of the accident?—l have heard of him doing so 205. 'Have you ever heard of his being refused leave? —I have heard, but Ido not know ot any particular case. . . . 206 Supposing he makes his report from his own point of view and then looks back to the history of the car, do you not think he is still protected by the history of the car if it has a bad history?— How is he going to get the history? 207 By looking at it after he has made his report?— But suppose lie cannot trace the record of that car. , 208. But I am asking you to assume that you could get the history after you have made'your report for the day Supposing arrangements were made to enable a man who had had an accident to trace the'history of the car in the reports after making his own report of the accident, would you be satisfied with that ?—No; I would far rather see the man have the right to trace the record of the car prior-to his putting in his report of the accident. 209 Do you not think that might influence a man in making an incorrect report, though the incorrect report might be a perfectly honest one ? I mean that the man making the report might honestly believe that what he was writing was correct, but it might be perfectly incorrect, because lie might be influenced by what he had seen in the history of the car 1— No; I should be rather inclined to think you would get a more truthful report from the man through his being able to trace the history of the car . ~••.. 210 Mr. O'Shea ] You consider that under this Bill, if the certificates are given, the right of the City Council to grant licenses will be taken away from it?— That is what we understand.^ 211. Do you know the methods of the examination of motormen in the various centres? —No, but I understand they are very similar in the four centres. 212. Do you consider the public safety would be at all helped by a Government certificate being given to a motorman ?—Yes, I think it would probably theoretically improve a motorman. 213. Do you know that we have a very strict theoretical examination for our various classes of motormen in Wellington?—l have always been led to believe it is not so strict as that in Auck--214. Do you know of any accident that has occurred there through the lack of proper facilities for training and for a proper examination ?—Yes, I think a befitting case to mention would be the Kingsland accident, where there was serious loss of life and quite a number seriously injured. 215. How long had your system been in operation then? —I should say about eighteen months or two years. 216. How long would a man have to be on your cars now before he could rise to be a conductor or motorman?—That is wholly and solely in the hands of the company There have been extraordinary promotions. A man three months on the job has been made a second-class officer 217 But take- the ordinary man?—l should say he would probably be two years. 218. Do you know it would take five years here?— Well, dealing with the Kingsland accident, that occurred through a motorman not.being properly instructed. 219 Was that found to be the case by the jury? —It was found that he had not used a brake which was left to him to use—that is, the third emergency brake—and the car ran away with him. The motormaa, whom I know personally, explained that after that he probably lost his head. He had two or three women hanging about his neck, and he got confused, and the car ran away Some of the passengers jumped off, the women appealed to him, and that was the result, If he had been properly instructed, that accident would not have occurred. At that particular time I do not think there were twenty men in the whole service who knew anything about that brake. 220. What is the condition of affairs now? —Well, naturally enough, profiting by experience, every man was immediately trained in the use of that brake. 221 Are the men properly trained now?—l think they are the most thoroughly trained men now of any tramway service I have come in contact with. 222 I think you said in answer to Mr Rosser that you believed in clause 3, because you thought the Government should have the power of inspection : Do you know that the Government have an absolute power of inspection now?— They have, or I am given to understand they have, in the first instance. 223. Do you know that they can go and inspect the rolling-stock at any time?—l am not aware of that fact. 224. As to subclause (c) of clause 5, there is power given to make regulations for the use ot proper appliances for the convenience of passengers, of the tramway employees, and of the general public. I suppose you know that the Auckland company is limited up to its paid-up capital to provide the cars considered to be necessary by the City Council? —I suppose so. 225. You know that the Auckland tram-cars make a profit?— Yes. 226. You know that for years past the Government have been losing £300,000 on the rail-ways?-—I could not say that,