I.—9a.

34

H. W WILSON

338. Are those the only two runaways you have heard of since you have been Town Clerk of Auckland? —Yes. I saw a car myself cut rather quickly down College Hill, but, although the motorman held control, he seemed to be going at an extraordinary speed. 339. If a few of the Auckland Tramway motormen interviewed me in Auckland as Minister of Public Works, or anywhere else, and were called to book, and probably stood a chance of being dismissed, do you think that those men should have a Court of Appeal outside of their employers? My own opinion is that —it may appear a strange one, in your opinion—but I always think that men should be loyal to their employers. 340. If the men considered they had a grievance that ought to be remedied by Parliament, and they interviewed one of the Ministers, do you think it is fair to those men to be called before the management, and that the management on the Board of Appeal?—l do not think any board of management would seek to do so. 341 If you had a case of that kind in future, do you think that would be a fair constitution? —No.

Tuesday, 6th September, 1910 Paul Richardson examined. (No. 4.) 1 Mr Bosser ] You are a motorman I—Yes,1 —Yes, in the employ of the Auckland Electric Tramways Company 2. What experience have you had?—l have had seven and a half years' experience as a motorman, and I am president of the Auckland Electric Tramways Industrial Union of Workers. 3. Generally, all your experience has been in Auckland? —Yes. i. You have Tbeen appointed by your union to appear before the Labour Bills Committee to give evidence on this Bill?— That is so, unanimously, by two large and representative meetings. 5. Have you read and considered the Bill?—I have, and personally I think it a very good Bill. 6. Your employers are on a different footing from the other tramway systems in the colony they are a private company ?—That is so, the other three centres run their car systems municipally 7 Have you a copy of the Bill? —I have. 8. I would just like you to give your opinion on the various clauses Clause 2is the first that concerns vs —the electric-tram-drivers' certificate are you in favour of that?— Yes, lam strongly in favour of that. 9. What is the present position in Auckland—how do they get a license to drive? —At present in Auckland a man has to serve ninety-six hours on the front of a tram-car, and then he goes through an examination before the depot superintendent 10. I understand that the City Council has the power to give a license to the motorman?— Yes; it also has the power to take one away 11. Do the men pay for that? —Yes, the fee is ss. 12. Are you satisfied with the position that the Council has the right to take away the license for any reason? —I cannot say I am, because there have been cases —one in particular is fresh in my memory, and that is the case of a motorman named Glen. This particular motorman was driving a car on the Ponsonby line when his conductor at the foot of Wellesley Street West gave him three bells, which was the orthodox signal that the car was full. 13. He was not to stop?— Yes. On rounding the curve just on passing the stop which is on that particular side of Queen Street—that is, on the right-hand side—just as he was leaving that stop he got two bells, which at that time was the proper bell signal to stop. He went on according to the rules and regulations to the next stop —that is, at St. Matthew's Church. A passenger came out and asked him why he had not stopped, and he said, " I stopped at the stop that was rung for " The passenger then said, " I wanted to get off at the foot of Wellesley Street," but he was too late. This particular motorman and the conductor were taken down before the Tramways Committee to show cause why their licenses should not be cancelled for overcarrying the passenger 14. Is there a regulation bearing on the bell signal? —Yes. 15. What distance have you to receive the signal before you stop? 16. Mr O'Shea.] Was this man's license taken away?—No, but he was told that if he came down again on a similar charge, in all probability his license would be cancelled. 17 Mr Bosser ] At what distance have you to receive the signal before you can stop?—At that time it was at least 75 yards, since that time the distance has been amended, and now it is 50 yards. 18. Do you receive it at a sufficient distance to stop?— No. 19. Do you consider that driver should not have been asked to show cause why his license should not be cancelled? —Certainly It caused a lot of comment at the time. 20. Can you give any other reason why you are in favour of this clause? —I think, if the Government licensed the motormen or gave the certificate it would unquestionably raise the status of the motorman. Also, in the event of a man coming from Dunedin, Christchurch, or Wellington to Auckland to take up the duties of a motorman, it would be necessary for him to get a license in Auckland and also a medical certificate, which would cost him at least ss. for each, and he would have to pay that out of his own pocket. 21. And your point is that a motorman coming from any of those three centres would be duly qualified when he got to Auckland? —That is so.