G.—s.

38

J. THORNTON.

104. How much time is devoted to prayers? —About twenty minutes in the morning, and in the evening it varies. I take prayer.- 5 , three times a week, and I generally spin it out, not actually in prayers, but in matters concerning their welfare and the welfare of their people. 105. Do you not think a little of the time devoted to prayers could be devoted to technical instruction to their advantage?—l would not like to say that. We do not pile on the prayers. 106. You would not be inclined to substitute a secular education free altogether from religion? —No; I should have nothing to do with it. I should resign to-morrow. 107. Is any objection made on the part of children whose parents are Mormons and Catholics, and so on?— Never. In one case from Taupo I had a request from the priest that the boy might be absolved from attending our services. 108. There is no compulsory attendance at services?—lt is taken for granted; we have never had to compel them. 109. I mean if they do not wish to attend prayers, can they stay away? —They come on the understanding that they do so, but we have never had to use compulsion in any case. 110. They need not attend church unless they like? —They have never asked to be let off. 111. For instance, if a number of boys do not care about attending church, or they disapprove of it themselves, or their parents disapprove of it, are they required to attend ?—They have never said they disapprove. If a boy comes to the school he knows that it is part of the curriculum. 112. The Ghairm.an.] Supposing a boy comes to the school who does not belong to the Church of England, and his parents do not wash him to attend Divine service, you would force that on him? —A case has never occurred. If it occurs you will then see what action takes place. 113. Mr. Hogg.] When a boy joins the school he is not told it is entirely optional whether he attends prayers or church?—He joins the school under the conditions of the school, and that is one of the conditions of the school. If a boy came to me and said he preferred going his own way instead of attending prayers, for instance, I should mildly express my disapprobation of his view, and would try to enforce my own. 114. You have mentioned that in your opinion the boys profit to some extent from the stationwork carried on around them. Do you think they would profit any more if they saw a good agricultural population around them —for instance, if an agricultural college was established there?— I think they would profit. All these things appeal to their observation. 115. Are you in favour of an agricultural education being added to other branches that are taught I—As a separate institution I should very much like to see an agricultural college such as Lincoln College in the South; but I think it would be a pity to try and graft it on to this institution. 116. You think it could be very successfully established there in conjunction with the school as it now exists?—l think it would be a splendid thing, and I believe it would meet the views of a great number of Maoris of the present day. 117. You have told us you think it is conducive to the health and prosperity of the young Maori race that they should have plenty of room and freedom in the country?—l do. 118. If that applies to the boys does it not apply to the girls?—l have not had much experience with girls. 119. You see they have a Maori girls' school carried on here where they have not the same' room and the same playgrounds? —Yes; but they can always go walking out through the streets in crocodile fashion. 120. Mr. Lee.] In the establishment of Te Aute School do you think that the conditions of the trust have been fairly met, where it says that " a school shall be established in the district of Ahuriri for the education of British subjects of both races in New Zealand " ?—-That only refers to the one grant. 121. Well, that is a large portion of the land?—lt is practically half. 122. Well, do you think the school fairly and honestly meets the conditions of the trust as a school established for the benefit of British subjects of both races in New Zealand?— Well, we can only admit the boys on application. We do not advertise for boys. We have never refused an English boy because he is an English boy; and, interpreting the language of the trust strictly, it would be simply the half of a half. It would be, strictly speaking, only a quarter. 123. Your aim is to make is a secondary school only, and to reach matriculation standard? — Quite so, and I think in doing that we are serving the best interests of the race. 124. At the same time you point out the great extent to which the Maori boys are really loaded here by having to reach a set examination and by having to pass that examination in what is practically a foreign language?— Yes. 125. Are you of opinion it is desirable in the interests of the school as a whole that you should attempt so high a standard in your school? —Both in the interests of the school and as a factor in the upraising of the Maori race I should hold it was so. 126. You say that a certain proportion of the pupils make use of this matriculation pass — that is to say, they qualify for the church or for the learned professions? —Yes. 127. Can you give me a fair idea of the proportion of the whole school that would go in for that kind of work?— Well, to explain that one could hardly give figures, but a sifting process goes on as the boys proceed in the school. Those not fitted for the higher subjects gradually drop out, and only those who are in a measure fitted for it remain on. 128. You have shown clearly that the pupils are fully occupied and that time is an object with you? —Yes. 129. Would you not be able to take up more technical instruction if you could be relieved of some of the other matriculation work? —Undoubtedly. It is the process of matriculation work that makes such demands upon our time. 130. Do you think it is desirable to take Latin throughout the school when only a small proportion of the boys will go up for matriculation work? —Latin is not taught throughout the school.