37

G.—s.

J. THOENTON.]

82. Do you think these boys that are being paid for could be educated equally and on similar terms in the high schools or colleges in the big centres?— Well, in the first place, they could not be educated for £25 a year. You cannot get them boarded in a grammar school. 83. You say £25 includes clothing?—No, it includes everything except that. Besides that, as regards educating them at the high schools, it is very much better for the Maori boys to be together, because they want a peculiar style of teaching. You require to know the Maori mind in order to teach Maoris successfully. Probably that special knowledge would not be brought to bear on a Maori boy in a grammar school. 84. You have tolcTus you have kept up a correspondence with a good many of the boys, and have been able to ascertain their progress after they leave the school: Do you think that the higher education they are receiving in any way unfits them for industrial pursuits?—No, I do not think it does at all. 85. Do you think such a boy considers it a degradation to work hard at any kind of employment that may be offered to him?— Not at all. A Maori never looks at it in that way. I have a boy who left me last year. He did not pass the matriculation examination, but he sat for it. He now wants to be a carpenter, and I want him to be an engineer. In the meantime he is working for sheep-farmers on the East Coast, and he writes me and tells me how popular he is amongst them, and what a fine fellow they think him. 86. Of course, you have referred to a number who have entered the professions and offices, and so on, but with regard to the others, do you know if many of them have gone into trades? —Not a great number have gone into trades. A great number have gone on to their land. They have not gone into trades because they think that a trade or anything of that sort is degrading, but simply because they do not take to that sort of thing. Years ago, for a long time, the great idea amongst the boys was to get into offices. lam glad to say that idea is dying out, and they are showing a great deal more inclination to get on the land, and to work amongst their own people, and so on. But I should be pleased if a much larger number of them had gone into trades, such as blacksmithing and carpentering and saddlery, and so on. A few from Te Aute and other places have done so, but not so many as I should like to see. 87. I suppose a good deal of consideration is given to the different occupations they might follow amongst their own people?— Yes. 88. You referred to the curriculum of the school: is science included in it? —Yes, we teach physiology, which is a branch of science. 89. Do you teach such things as chemistry and electricity?— Never electricity; we had chemistry, but gave it up. 90. Shorthand? —No. The boys have taken it up occasionally themselves, but not as part of the curriculum. 91. No attempt has been made to establish a laboratory for scientific demonstration?— No. 92. Do you know of any boys who have taken charge of Native schools?— They cannot, unless they are married. The master of a Government Native school must be a married man. 93. But have they married? —I do know of one who has become a Native-school teacher. It is a matter I have talked over with Mr. Pope in years past, but nothing has ever come of it, 94. The Chairman.] Do you know of instances where they have made application?—l think Mr. Pope raised the objection of a certain amount of tribal prejudice. 95. Mr. Hogg.] Have they had, in your opinion, a fair trial?—l have had Maori teachers in my own school at Te Aute for many years. 96. How do they succeed? —Very well, indeed; but they have been under my own immediate superintendence. They have been boys educated at the place, who knew what I was like and what was wanted, and I have had most satisfactory work from many of them. 97. Do you think from your experience they are adapted to be teachers of their own race?— So far as actual teaching is concerned I do not see why they should not. But in these Native schools a good deal more has to be thought of than the actual teaching. These Native-school masters have to be centres of light and leading amongst the Maoris. The Inspector of Native Schools will be able to give an opinion about that. 98. But so far as your observation and judgment go you believe Maori boys, if they received a superior education, ought to make very good teachers?— Yes, I should certainly go as far as that. 99. Why were the carpentering classes established some years ago discontinued?—l mentioned in my letter. After this agitation for more scientific and systematic training we dropped it out of the time-table, thinking that something would be absolutely settled in regard to it by the Government. It gradually dropped out without our being conscious of it. It does not mean we are not using tools. We are always using tools about the place: but I cannot quote it, because it is not part of our time-tabid work, 100. Do you think it would be a wise thing to revive these classes?— Undoubtedly; I value them very highly. 101. There is a difference between the trustees and the Government over this question?—lt has been a question of the amount of time, and now the Government have conceded our point. The question has been talked over a good deal. I think we must do something, and we are going to do something. It has to be done. There has been a good deal of delay, but there is no question about our doing it. 102. You see the difference of one hour and a half between the four hours mentioned by the Government and the two hours and a half you stipulate for is a very small matter after all ?—lt is not in the case of the Maori boys, with whom we have to carry on all instruction in English-—in a foreign language. It demands a tremendous amount of time and labour. 103. But, still, considering the whole time Occupied in education in the school is only six hours per day, do you not think there ought to be facilities for this instruction?—lt is more than six hours. There is their preparation-work each evening.