G.—7

18

The Commissioner: I do not know the residences, but I suppose all those who put in a claim as your brother's children reside about Waikanae. I want you to give your genealogy and connect these persons with Ngatimutunga. You got as far as tracing your own descent from Ngatimutunga. The witness did not appear to understand. The Commissioner: You put a claim in for certain people. You are able to show that you are descended from Ngatimutunga. Now I want you to show whether these people you represent are descended from Ngatimutunga also or not. There being some difficulty in making the witness understand what was wanted, the Commissioner again said, " You traced your own descent from Ngatimutunga, and I want you to give me the whakapapa of these people, so that we can see whether they are descended from Ngatimutunga." The witness did not consider it necessary to give the genealogies, as he thought Mr. Mackay knew them, and the Commissioner pointed out to him that, although he himself knew about the fathers and mothers, yet it was necessary that the Crown representative and the Maoris present should be in full possession of the whakapapa. The genealogy was then gone on with. The genealogies of the claimants on List No. 13, put in by Piripi te Aho, was then given by Piripi. Mrs. Hopere suggested that, if Te Tapuke was not here at 2 o'clock to give further information to enable his whakapapa to be completed, his name should be struck off the list. The Commissioner: I cannot do this. I want to give everybody a chance. I want as much as you to hasten matters, as Ido not want to sit here too long. I want to avoid delays, so that the Government shall not say Mr. Mackay is drawing so much money per diem and wasting time. The genealogy of List No. 12, Te Tapuke-o-Niu-Tireni, was then adjourned until 2 o'clock on Wednesday to enable him to obtain more information. The Court adjourned, and resumed at 2 p.m. The genealogy of Piripi te Aho was then completed. Mr. Tuhata gave further information with regard to the genealogy of the claimants upon Mrs. Brown's list (List 6). Mrs. Hopere handed in an additional list to be added to No. 7a, consisting of two names, and gave the genealogy of the claimants. Mrs. Brown wished to know if she could talk to the people assembled. The Commissioner: You should do that when the representative of the Crown is here. Mrs. Brown: Very well. The Commissioner: We will take your case the first thing in the morning. Mrs. Brown: I should like Te Tapuke-o-Niu-Tireni to be here when I make my speech in the morning. Wednesday, 17th May, 1905. The Court resumed at 10 a.m. The Commissioner: I will call upon you, Mrs. Brown, to commence to give evidence with regard to the claimants in your list. Mrs. Brown: If you remember, I asked that my evidence should stand over until Te Tapuke-o-Niu-Tireni arrived. The Commissioner: lam sorry, but we must make a start now. Mrs. Brown was then sworn. The Commissioner: I just want to see what names have to be struck out of these lists, and in places where there are no descendants to see who are the successors. Mr. Skinner: Before Mrs. Brown makes her statement I should like to say that all those to be struck out are those who have received consideration through the Compensation Court, or whose names have been put into West Coast Commission or other Reserves, and also those who died prior to the setting-up of the Commission in 1880. The Commissioner: Those who died before that Commission was appointed, of course, are debarred. We cannot give land to dead people. I will therefore just read over the names of those who died prior to that Commission being appointed, and they will in consequence be struck out: (1) Matara Ihaka, (2) Te Koeti, (3) Rioska Maori, (4) Rawinia Paramena, (5) Paramena, (6) Wiremu Ropiha, (7) Keepa te Paki, (8) Kahe, (9) Tukutahi, (11) Makareta, (12) Te One, (13) Pitiroi; (14) Ruihi Raumihoa has been dead about four years, and I shall require a successor for her; (15) Hiroa will be struck out, as claimant was dead before Commission sat; (17 and 18) Maraea Tamate and Tangotango are included in Ngatirahiri Reserve, and are therefore struck out. With regard to those claimants in List 6a, these appeared to have been gone into by Mr. Fisher. Some of these died before the Commission was appointed. Some of these are included in the West Coast Settlement Reserves. I am, however, prepared to hear anything you have to say about them. Mrs. Brown: As far as I am aware, some of these claimants are not included in any reserves at all. Mr. Skinner: I have not got the information, and the matter is one for Mr. Fisher to deal with. I suggest that a note be made, and Mr. Fisher be asked to verify this information upon his return. Mrs. Brown: As Mr. Fisher did not examine this list with me, I suggest that it should be gone over by us together. The Commissioner: Very well. The names in List 6a will have to stand over. Tuhata was then sworn in order to aid Mrs. Brown to give information with regard to claimants on List No. 6.