G.—s.

26

[H. HEKE.

of the donors. The descendants of the donors should not be made to travel into another district belonging to another tribe in order to receive these, benefits. I think these reasons are enough to show the feelings of Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa. 78. If this fund is diverted to Wairarapa, they will refuse to share it ? —I am open to believe the statements of other witnesses, and also to believe the expressions of opinion in several meetings I have attended on this point. 79. Supposing a school were established in Otaki, properly conducted, and so on, as in the scheme put before the Commissioners, what attendance of Native children would result, in your opinion ? — I think if a school as set out in the scheme were established, more especially adding trades to the education of the children, all the eligible children of Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa would be sent to it. It goes without saying that, although they may desire to send the whole of their eligible children to this school, it would remain on the capacity of the school as far as funds are concerned to limit the number. 80. If there were sufficient accommodation and the school well equipped, they would all take advantage of it ? —I mean if there were enough funds all eligible children would attend. 81. You have had a list made of the names of Native children in Otaki at present ? — Yes ; there are 152 in Otaki proper, including the settlement across the river. [Exhibit C produced.] 82. What is the Native custom in regard to Maoris born of parents belonging to two different tribes, such as Ngatikahungunu and Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa % —The Native custom on this point is this : it is stated that there are three Ngatitoa and Ngatiraukawa children attending the school in the Wairarapa. These children are the issue of Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa women married to Ngatikahungunu husbands living in the Wairarapa. The rule is this :on any occasion when the children of such a marriage come to their people of Ngatiraukawa or Ngatitoa, as visitors, in the course of the address of welcome by the local tribes they would be addressed as " Kahungunu." Their Ngatiraukawa or Ngatitoa blood is not recognised at all, because they were born in a district other than that of their people. The cry of blood only arises in cases where a murder is committed of one of the children of such marriage. If the murder were committed by a Ngatikahungunu, or a person in their territory, then the Ngatiraukawa blood appeals to the people to seek for revenge. And, secondly, it arises on questions of titles to land. Then the question of relationship of blood is called forth again when they make a claim to any land. The tribe or family would recognise their Ngatikahungunu relatives so long as that relative has stayed away within a limited period of time, and not long enough to exclude him from the title to the property. 83. Such children as you mention would, except for these two purposes, be looked upon as strangers by the two tribes ?—Yes ; there is only this : supposing any Ngatiraukawa travelled into the district where these children are, then it is their duty, should they feel inclined, to send for their relatives and welcome them to their homes. 84. Have you made any observations in regard to the general effect of past and present education systems on the Maori ?—I have devoted a great deal of attention to this particular point, and my experience tells me this, that notwithstanding the higher education we obtain either at Te Aute or St. Stephen's in Auckland, and taking the public schools as well, in the majority of cases the education is not sufficient. It may not be the fault of the education ; it may be the intellectual capacity of the children. But the general knowledge (in regard to the majority of Natives) which they have acquired has not turned out sufficiently practical to get them employment in any trade or profession in the English life of the country. Take, for instance, the capacity to spell; the majority of Maori children coming from the schools are very deficient in that. In composition they are very deficient; in grammar they are absolutely bad. Therefore, when they apply to be taken on as clerks or anything of that kind they cannot be accepted. lam speaking of the majority. The sharper and more intellectual boys are a minority—such as Ngata, Pomare, Moffatt, Parata, and others. At St. Stephen's the rule is this, and it has shown itself to be beneficial to the boys : after passing the Fourth and Fifth Standards, if they are not able to gain a McLean scholarship, and if they cannot remain at school any longer, the caretaker of the boys would go and consult tradespeople (I am speaking of the time before labour legislation came into force in regard to apprentices) and get employment for those boys as apprentices—perhaps to one of the big saddlers in Auckland, or a large upholsterer, and several carpenters, blacksmiths, boat-builders, and other trades ; and every boy that has been taken on in this way has turned out a first-class journeyman ; and instead of going back to their homes and becoming a burden on their parents, they have lived on their trade. Some have married European wives, have had children, and are supporting their wives and children on the trades they have acquired. To come back to the Government Native schools, we have this system, that if any boy passes a McLean scholarship, he can either go forward to Te Aute for higher education, or he can ask the Government, and on the recommendation of the Native School Inspector, obtain a sort of premium of £18 to enable him to enter a trade carried on in his own locality. It is paid to the tradesman who takes the boy on. This is in regard to boys whose parents are not sufficiently well-to-do to send them to Te Aute. My experience is that the acquisition of a trade is more beneficial to the Natives as a whole than the seeking for higher education. It does not bar the sharper intellectual children from seeking higher education in secondary schools or universities. There is an instance in Otaki. A Ngatiraukawa boy who has passed the Sixth Standard was taken on as a compositor on the local paper. Another Ngatiraukawa pupil of the mission school has also been taken on as a compositor, and a third boy. lam told by the proprietor of the paper that the boy from Te Aute, who passed the Sixth Standard, is the better of the three on account of his education. 85. Do you think this scheme put before the Commissioners will have the effect you have suggested ? —I think if this scheme is capable of being carried out, and if the funds are used for this purpose, it would bring about that result. In regard to the girls, it is very necessary that a higher method of educating them should be adopted in the direction of maternal affection and the proper bringing-up of children when they are young, and more especially when they are sick, and a better knowledge of the care of the home,