t. be van. 1

15

G— 5.

went on thrivingly up to about 1857 or 1858. Then Tamihana Rauparaha, Ngatiraukawa, and Ngatitoa found some faults about the administration of the money they were receiving from the Government. When the Government received this complaint about the administration of the money, they sent Royal Commissioners up to make inquiry, who went to the college. Henare Taratoa was the teacher at that time. The Commissioners asked for the books, and he said " I cannot produce the books, they are missionary property." When the Commissioners could not get the books, they collected the children and made inquiry as to what clothing they wore, and how many times a day they were taught, and what sort of bedding they had, and what kind of food they had to eat. They returned to Wellington and the money was stopped. Archdeacon Hadfield was away at that time. When he came back he found the money was stopped.. He then gave notice to the parents of the children that there would be no more boarding-school, but there would be a day-school. The children all broke up and went to their homes —to Manawatu, Rangitikei, Porirua, and Waikanae. I think this was in 1859. Ever since then the school has been dwindling down to its present state. The present state is this : it is a day-school, and as soon as the children go home they go to their parents ; they sit down at night with the children all round telling fairy tales, and they go amongst the tohungas. Ido not think the attendance at the school is above ten or fifteen. 89. You know the district well ?—Yes. 89a. Are there numbers of Maori children who ought to go to school who do not attend ?—Yes ; a large proportion of them. Ido not believe out of every twenty children there are three or four who go to the State school, and they would be better without such education as they are receiving now. I suppose throughout the district extending from Otaki to the Manawatu there are one hundred and fifty children uneducated, getting neither religious nor any other education, but growing up ignorant and superstitious. Hospitals and doctors are no use in the district, for they will not attend them ; they have their own prophets, and you cannot persuade them to go to any one else. I believe if there was a boarding-school on this land as a central college there would be an enormous quantity of children attending it; but while it is carried on as a day-school it is of no use whatever. 90. Mr. Quick.'] Do you not think, if a boarding-school were erected, it would be better to place it away from a centre of population—at Waikanae, for instance ?—No ; because when they had a board-ing-school here the parents never troubled them ; they never went near or interfered. It would be just as good to have it here as to take it anywhere else. 91. But would not the children out of school hours get away home and play truant, and so on ?— No. 92. Why ?—I am going by the time when there was a boarding-school here. One never heard of any children running away or going amongst the parents, or the parents interfering with them. It was carried on in a most beautiful manner. If the Church wants to keep up its congregation now is the time to take the children in hand and bring them up with religious instruction. 93. Mr. Wardell.~] Can you recollect the circumstances of the donation of this land ? Did you understand that these lands were given for the education of young children or for higher education, beyond the common schools ?—lt was given for the higher education ; because they were making industrial children of them by teaching them farming and so on ; learning something beyond education. 94. Is that what you mean by the word " higher " ?—Yes. 95. In using the word " college," do you understand it to signify the class of education to be given, or was it only a school at which children were boarded ?—lt was a boarding-school for higher education. 96. What do you understand by " higher " education ?—To bring them up as good scholars and ■useful people. 97. Mr. Quick.] I should have thought, if the school were in the thick of a Maori population, it would be difficult—even if it were a boarding-school—to keep the children away from the parents at night and from playing truant ?—I do not think so. lam quite certain it is not so. They are very anxious now to get as high education as they can. It is pitiable to go up the Coast and see the state of the children —so much neglected by the Government and the missionaries. 98. I suppose things fell off on the West Coast to a large extent owing to the Hauhau rebellion, and so on ?—Some twenty years ago it was very bad here, but that is gradually dying out. But the Maori tohungas are carrying on most disgracefully ; they will not call in a doctor. It is no good to get grown-up people to go to the'churches now; they have been breaking faith with the Church for so many years that they will not go back, and the only way to save the young is to bring them up on religious principles 99. You do not agree with what is said about going away from religion altogether ?—No ; that is what I am fighting against. 100. You have children on this coast ? —Fourteen. 101. Where were they educated ?—There was no school for them to go to ; they are all selfeducated, but they are alFdoing well.l

Otaki, Thursday, Bth June, 1905. Rev. Mr. McWilliam examined. 1. Mr. WardelL] We have received from Archdeacon Williams the accounts in conection with the Otaki trusts from 1893—the date at which he took charge under the Mission Trust Board, and we have in a blue-book the accounts for the years 1872, 1873, and 1874. Are you in a position to give any information as to the financial transactions of the trust from its commencement up to 1872 ?— None whatever. I had nothing to do with it.