1.—14 a.

10

[d. HOGBEN.

85. Coming to the Boards of Advice. In the case of North Canterbury there would be South Canterbury, Westland, and Grey—l presume Grey would come into that district ?—Grey comes into the Wellington District nominally, and Westland too. Under the Victoria College Act they are in the Victoria University College district. I was not free to make any other division. 86. What is the Otago University district I—Does1 —Does that take in Southland ? —Yes. 87. Well, in order to give increased interest to South Canterbury, and Westland if it conies in, would it not be wise to appoint additional members of the Board of Advice from those districts ? — I have already said so. 88. We are already doing that in North Canterbury ?—Well, I have suggested—and the Committee last year adopted the suggestion —that the Board of Advice should include representatives from any other Boards of Education in the same university district. 89. At the present time we have in North Canterbury one member from South Canterbury ; I do not think we have any others ?—No ; you have no other Board in your university district. That is how the matter stands. 90. Would it not be wiser to have an increased number —to have, say, two representatives from, say, Southland I—The1 —The chief objection is this : Supposing the Wellington Training College were put under the Wellington Board ; there are eight Education Boards concerned, and you would have then eighteen men, because you would have in addition to the sixteen, the Inspector and the University College representatives. 91. Would it not be wise to give say, Southland increased representation, and do it on the basis of the number of schools ? Supposing there was a representation from Otago of three for 200 schools, would it not be wise to give Southland two for say 120 schools, providing those were the proportions ?-— The number in Southland is about 150 as against 220 in Otago. 92. Could you get over the difficulty of the local jealousy by appointing half the number from Southland ?—The jealousy between Southland and Otago in that respect is a thing that will die out in time if Southland gets what it considers fair play. 93. Then that question could be fairly answered with regard to Southland wanting central control, that it is in consequence of jealousy that they want it ?—lt is the fact of their being under the impression —I do not say I justify the impression—that they could not get their pupil-teachers trained. The feeling exists because of that impression. Ido not say it has ever been exactly true. 94. If it would be natural for the four Boards that have already got control to want to continue to have it, is it not equally natural for those who have not got control to object to it ?—Yes. If your contention were right the opinions of the Boards would count for nothing, because they would go against one another. 95. The four Boards have control of a very large proportion of the children of the colony ?—Yes, they do control the majority. They are the ones whose teachers would not be left out in any case. It is the others, whose teachers would not be on the spot, that would feel the pinching of the shoe. I have tried to work it out fairly. 96. The Chairman.] Do you think it advisable that the training colleges should be brought under one scheme, or would it be better to allow play to the four university districts to, to a certain extent, experiment ? —I think the matter is past the stage of experiment, because it has been so well discussed in other countries of the world. The only difference we want to make is the difference suitable to our own land. 97. Is that not a portion of the experiment ? —-I do not think the range is wide enough for aSlot of experiments. If the training college is under the central department, or under the Board, there ought to be a director who is good enough to be allowed play for his own individuality. I do not think you want any more experiments than that. 98. Is it not a good thing to allow individual play to the director ?—Oh, I would do so. 99. Would it not be all cut and dried under the Department ?—Not any more than under the Boards. I have never heard of the Department being likely to interfere with the director in such a way as to make his work cut and dried. 100. Of course, it is a matter of opinion. That seems to me to be the danger of departmental control, that it would be cut and dried, and individuality would be killed ? —You might think that, and on the other hand you might have inefficiency or rather, I will not say " inefficiency," because I do not think that under any of the large Boards of this colony inefficiency has ever existed, but you might have decreased efficiency. It is rather difficult for me—with members of Boards present—to express my unbiassed opinion. 101. We want it ?—Well, it is that it is not worth the money to carry on the school at Christchurch as it has been carried on for several years, and is likely to be carried on. There is not a proper return to the colony. 102. Mr. Hardy.] You say that the school in Christchurch has not been successfully carried on ?— Yes, during the last few years. 103. A large proportion of the young people who have been trained in that school are now employed by our Board ? —I said, during the last few years. 104. Are their literary attainments up to the mark ? —They have passed the examinations. 105. Have we not got more university graduates in the ranks of our school-teachers in North Canterbury, in proportion to the total number, than any other district in New Zealand ? —From those who have gone through the Normal School in the last few years, no. 106. Speaking generally ?—-I will not say generally. I say as the school has been carried on for the last few years, and is now being carried on. 107. Have we not got more university graduates, and a greater number of men of attainments, in the service of the North Canterbury Board than there are in the service of any other Board in New Zealand ?—That is not to the point of what I said just now.