ALFRED HOWORTH.I

33

I.—4a.

387. Who looks after the horses when the men are idle?—The salesman looks after them, in the way of getting them a certain amount of food; but one of the horse-men looks after the horses of a morning. 388. Does he get paid whether the mine is at work or not?—One of the horse-men is allowed a little extra for looking after the horses. 389. It is necessary for him to be there in any case?—Yes. 390. That is three out of the seven. Your road-man is paid by the day ?—Yes. 391. Does he get paid if the mine is idle ?—No. 392. The tip-man, I suppose, is not paid unless you are working?—No. 393. Three out of the seven you have to pay in any case ?—Two. 394. By putting on an extra man at the face to get coal, and assuming that he gets 3-J- tons a day, though the time was reduced by half an hour, your output would be equal to what it is at present. Could you take that coal out by paying the wages of a man to drive the horses for an hour a day extra ? —The man and two horses would not handle it. 395. What would it require to handle the coal?—lt has got to be tipped. 396. Then, put on the tip-man's wages for an hour, if you like?—Yes. 397. How much a day extra cost would it all amount to ?—I cannot see that there is anyother way of looking at it than mine ; there would simply be the loss of half an hour a day's wage if half an hour a duy less time is worked by the wages-men. It is the loss of that time. 398. Not if your output is kept up to what it is at present. You have to pay the men for the same output at present, have you not ?—So much is contract work, and all the rest is done by day-wages men; we would simply lose the work of all the day-wages men for that half-hour. 399. You pay your wages-men on your present output, do you not?—No, not entirely ; some by time, some by the week. 400. You would have to pay your manager, the salesman, and one of the horse-men—they are permanent hands ? —One of the horse-men is paid by time, but he is allowed something extra for looking after the horses. 401. What is your present output?—From about 11,000 to 11,500 tons a year. Between 900 and 1,000 tons a month. 402. That is 200 tons a week. But all your expenses have got to be made up by your present output. You have got to get all your expenses, no matter of what kind, out of your present output?—Yes. 403. The proposed alteration would reduce your output to the extent of one hewer's coalgetting, you say —that is, half an hour a day off thirteen men ?—-That is, assuming it is half an hour. 404. Assuming for argument's sake that it is ?—Yes; it would reduce the output by onefifteenth. 405. Say, by about one hewer's work?—Yes. 406. According to your own showing, that would be about 3£ tons a day?—Yes, something like that. 407. By putting on an extra man you could get that 3|- tons a day?—Yes, provided we had places. 408. Could you make places ?—Not always. 409. Why not ?—At our mine we are working under a good deal of difficulty in the way of room. It is an old mine. 410. You have had no experience of other mines? —Not more than local knowledge. I know a little of the conditions of other mines in the district. 411. What effect has coal-mining on the men's health as a rule, in your opinion?—With the experience that I have had in our district, I can say that it seems to be very healthy. I will give an instance. Our mine-manager is a man of about sixty-two years of age. He began in the pits at Lancashire at eight years of age; he has followed mining ever since, and is a remarkably healthy man to-day. 412. How long has he been working with you ?—Close on five years. 413. Can he go in and out of the mine whenever he likes ?—Yes. 414. His position in that respect is not similar to that of the coal-miners ? —He is not actually getting coal; he does a certain amount of work. 415. In other words, is he actually in the mine as long as the miners?—He is in charge of everything, and is moving backwards and forwards. 416 He does the office-work on the surface ?—There is not much office-work to do.

Thuesday, 31st July, 1902. Alpeed Howoeth's examination continued. 1. Mr. J. Allen.] I want to ask you a question in connection with a point Mr. McKenzie asked you about when you were here the other morning. If your coal-haulers down below and the horses were kept to bring out the coal after the miners had left the mine, what would be the effect on the haulage the next morning?—lt would work out in this way : Suppose that our boxes were divided into four classes, A, B, C, and D. We will say that one is at the face, one is full (travelling), one is being emptied, and the fourth is travelling back. In the morning you would have all your boxes empty, and the haulage would stand still till the boxes were filled up again and the work came back to its ordinary position. So that in the end what you hauled out the previous night you would have to wait for in the morning.